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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCalled Commission Meeting October 9, 2018 CALLED MEETING COMMISSION CHAMBER October 9, 2018 Augusta Richmond County Commission convened at 11:00 a.m., Tuesday, October 9, 2018, the Honorable Hardie Davis, Jr., Mayor, presiding. PRESENT: Hons. Jefferson, Guilfoyle, Sias, Frantom, M. Williams, Davis, Fennoy, D. Williams, Hasan and Smith, members of Augusta Richmond County Commission. Mr. Mayor: We’ll call this meeting to order. The Chair recognizes Attorney MacKenzie. 1. LEGAL MEETING A. Pending and potential litigation B. Real estate C. Personnel Mr. MacKenzie: I would entertain a motion to go into an executive session to discuss pending and potential litigation, real estate and personnel. Mr. Sias: So move. Mr. Frantom: Second. th Mr. Mayor: Commissioner from the 9. Mr. M. Williams: I’m trying to make sure what we’re voting on, Mr. Mayor. Can you clarify – Mr. Mayor: You’re just voting on going into executive session. That’s all. The same thing we always do. Come on now. Mr. M. Williams: I want to make sure the agenda item we’re talking about is not in legal session (inaudible) called meeting, is that right? Mr. Mayor: What are you talking about? You’ve only got one item. The Clerk: We’re going into executive session now, sir, for pending, real estate, personnel. Mr. M. Williams: I’m just double checking. The Clerk: I know. Ms. Davis, Mr. Guilfoyle and Mr. Smith out. Motion carries 7-0. 1 \[EXECUTIVE SESSION\] Mr. Mayor: All right, we’ll call this meeting back to order. The Chair recognizes Attorney MacKenzie. 2. Motion to authorize execution by the Mayor of the affidavit of compliance with Georgia's Open Meeting Act. Mr. MacKenzie: I would entertain a motion to execute the closed meeting affidavit. Mr. Fennoy: So move. Mr. Frantom: Second. Mr. Mayor: Voting. Motion carries 10-0. Mr. Mayor: The Chair recognizes Attorney MacKenzie for a motion. Mr. MacKenzie: I would entertain a motion to restart the hiring process for the position of DBE Coordinator and to advertise the position both internally and externally but to not fill the position of DBE Coordinator until the Director of Compliance position has been filled. Mr. Jefferson: So move. Mr. Hasan: Second. Motion carries 10-0. Mr. Mayor: At this point we’re going to proceed with the special called meeting portion of our agenda. Madam Clerk. 3. Motion to approve the City of Augusta meet with Gold Cross to discuss the following items — 1)*Subsidy 2)*Response time accountability 3)*Contract negotiation sent to the city in 2017 by Gold Cross 4)*Monitor ambulances from 911 Center 5)*EMS Advisory Board 6)*Call distribution plan with AFD Ambulances *Any other implementations to help the citizens of Richmond County. (Requested by Commissioner Sean Frantom) th Mr. Mayor: All right, the Chair recognizes the commissioner from the 7. Mr. Frantom: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Let me first say that this isn’t about Gold Cross, this 2 would be about if it was any company and all that we’ve had going on with the city and Gold Cross over the years. This is about the health and safety of the citizens. I think we sit here today and we really can’t blame totally the city, totally Gold Cross of where we are, but we do have a chance to put it behind us and create a true partnership that benefits the future. This agenda, it feels like since I’ve been on this commission we’ve never been true partners with Gold Cross. When you look at the history of how the subsidy started, I think back in 2005, the amount, I want to say $1.2 million, there wasn’t really an understanding of what we got, the city got for that $1.2 million and I think that’s part of the confusion, the concerns of some of the commissioners of, you know, when we had the $900,000, what were we getting for that? But when we decided, this governing body, to get rid of the subsidy we lost all of our power to really create standards, to really hold them accountable from a response time aspect, and then over the past year it’s been a battle in the Commission and the community, Facebook. A lot of information has been brought before this body, some misinformation of call times, response times, people from the community and all the facts were on the table when people were in front of this body and for us to truly move forward for the citizens, I feel like we need to have that partnership with Gold Cross. November 9 of 2017 Gold Cross sent this body a letter that stated they wanted to partner with us and because of the circumstances of where we were in acquiring the zone we basically didn’t respond and moved on. I think that when you look at some of the things that we could implement to possibly make the services better for the citizens, the monitor that no one in the 911 Center either understood or turned on creating some form of public input like other communities have where there is an Advisory Board so it’s just not the governing body understanding the issues. You have a board of people that could do that and any other things that we could learn from other communities to implement for the city. And for us to sit down and have this conversation, how do we not know that we could be co-zone providers again? We don’t know that, like we were before. How do we not know that we can’t rotate our ambulances into picking up calls? We don’t know that. So I’m hoping today that my colleagues will agree to at least have this conversation for the citizens, for the firefighters and for the City of Augusta. So thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: I’m going to ask you a series of questions if you don’t mind. Is it not true that this body directed the attorney and the Administrator to meet with Gold Cross? Mr. Frantom: At what point? Mr. Mayor: Is it not true that this body directed the attorney and the Administrator to meet with Gold Cross? Mr. Frantom: Yeah, three times ago and that was over 18 months ago. That’s correct. Mr. Mayor: And is it also not true that subsequent to those meetings the attorney and the Administrator came back to us and indicated to us that pursuant to your point number one the subsidy because that quote was the sticking point at the time, indicated to us, us being this governing body that they did not want to move forward with what had been proposed? 3 Mr. Frantom: That’s because we gave them a three hundred and forty something plus thousand contract and would not even have a conversation with them. Mr. Mayor: Is it also not true that this body has requested information with regards to your item number two response times and we have debated that ourselves independent of the Administrator and the attorney and concluded that there were concerns? Is it also not true? Mr. Frantom: There has been things brought up of concern of response time. That’s exactly true. th Mr. Mayor: The Chair recognizes the commissioner from the 9. Mr. M. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I’m glad we’re finally sitting down having a conversation about the ambulance service that jeopardizes the life and safety of a lot of people in this community whether it be residents in this community or people passing through. You talked about the subsidy a few minutes ago and I remember being on this body when we did not negotiate, we just changed from the present subsidy that we was paying or giving from this governing body to a flat $200,000 or something. Some of the commissioners on this body thought that we were paying too much for the subsidy and when we did not give them the subsidy, when they did not agree, we did not negotiate. We had no negotiation. First of all, let’s get that straight. There wasn’t no conversation where we sat down and negotiated. Maybe the attorney and the Administrator may have, I don’t remember that, but for bringing it back to this body saying this is what we agreed, there were some elected officials who thought that it was just too much to pay for the subsidy we were paying when we had guidelines, time restraint, number of ambulances at peak time and other times it was already put in place and it was held to that. But when you take the subsidy away, when you’re not paying anything, then how can we put time restraints on response time and time they should get there? The other part goes back to the zone. We were co-providers but when we stopped being co-providers we got separated there and we wanted to go after the zone and that’s a whole other issue. I’m hoping we could at least start to communicate on some of the stuff and put it out on the table because the taxpayers are the ones suffering while we’re playing politics. I’m elected but I’m not a politician. I don’t know how to do that. I’m not going to support it and that what is happening here. I hope the ambulance service won’t be a part of the politics. We approved buying two new ambulances for $450,000 and then we came up with a billing process to know how we are going to bill the people. The taxpayers bought the ambulances, paid the salary of the men driving them and now we have to pay them for a ride too. Something don’t sound right if that’s what we’re doing and if we’re going to get into the business of ambulance service. We ought to be in fire safety mode. There are some times when we can assist and we have assisted. But we’ve gotten away from what we should be standing up for and that’s fire protection. We ought to sit down and negotiate and try to get someone to provide that service that we can’t provide. If we think the subsidy is too much, then how can we afford to pay to get into the service? I think we should figure out of a better way of doing this than what we’ve been doing and at least be honest with everybody about which direction we’re heading in. Mr. Mayor: If I may ask you a series of questions. 4 Mr. M. Williams: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor: Is it not true you have been a part of this body on more than one occasion? Mr. M. Williams: I’m the longest serving commissioner on this board, Mr. Mayor, so I’ve been with every ambulance contract that’s been talked about in here when they included me. Now I can’t speak to those that excluded me. Mr. Mayor: Is it also not true that you have been a part of this body when we were the zone provider and when we were co-providers? Mr. M. Williams: Yes, sir, I was a commissioner when we were co-providers. Mr. Mayor: Is it not true that this body presented Gold Cross with a subsidy option and they rejected it? Mr. M. Williams: Yeah. That was an option that we gave them, Mr. Mayor, but that wasn’t a negotiation. Now is it not true that we had a different subsidy and we dropped it lower or we kept it the same? What you’re indicating is that we offered them the same thing and they rejected it. That’s not true. Mr. Mayor: You yielded and I’m asking the questions. Mr. M. Williams: Yeah but I’m answering the questions. We’re not in a court of law. th Mr. Mayor: The Chair recognizes the commissioner from the 8. Mr. Guilfoyle: Mayor, let me go ahead and tell you up front that I’m not into answering your questions, number one, because it’s a twist that you’re applying on the people who are speaking here. It is true that the staff did meet with Gold Cross. Normally it’s $100,000 per ambulance. That’s the same offer that’s on the table right now. But when you cut a company’s subsidy by 65% and ask them to increase the amount of ambulances to shorten the response time, it’s not affordable. We cannot even do it as a city in Augusta Richmond County. You know October 10this body voted 8-0 to go after the zone. That’s a true statement. So there’s no reason to ask on that. On March 20 the two ambulances, $455,216, that was for the bare ambulances. I had a list of questions, Mr. Mayor, and you were aware of this as well as my colleagues. I know that it cost $1.2 million dollars and it was not questioned, no different than any other number that I have thrown out. On the using of part-time employees but that didn’t include any fringe benefits or any overtime. But I had a list of questions. This whole body knows that list of questions was not answered. Same date, March 20, Chief James said that three reasons need ambulances. Send to all structure fires for firefighters/citizens. Strenuous training. Fire and sheriff transportation. Mass casualty incidents, supplemental zone and mutual aid. That was what was told to this body. But come July 17 forward we’re getting into the ambulance business. Since then we actually 5 procured a billing company in case we do transport people with Augusta Richmond County ambulances. That offer has been on the table seven/eight years previous when we had the subsidy with Gold Cross. They were willing to do it 10%. We look at it as a money-maker but we never have once utilized that service that was offered so all the transports we did we made nothing off of it. So what changes at this moment? Nothing because we hired a billing company supposedly. This whole thing in a nutshell about the zone, the subsidy, we cannot do it cheaper than what the subsidy is costing us. Just in labor alone, $1.2 million dollars. Commissioner Fennoy made a wonderful statement that I’ll never forget. It took seven years to figure out between a square table and a round table (inaudible) for the negotiators. Look how many people passed away. This is what we’re doing. We’re going after the zone, this is our second or third time going after the zone. We keep doing the same thing over and over to expect different results. This motion is pretty much a simple motion. It’s asking the City to meet with Gold Cross to discuss the following: subsidy, response time, accountability, contract negotiation sent to the city in 2017, monitor ambulances from 911, EMS Advisory Board. This is all they’re doing. This is an olive leaf that they’re offering us even though they control the zone. They control most of the ambulances. We look at the investments they’ve made here in Augusta and it’s about $12 million dollars. They reinvest it. None of their ambulances are over three or four years ago. It’s equipped with the latest as well as people, patient information that if they go back to the same house, they know they’re a diabetic or they know they have high blood pressure and the reading is different they know. By utilizing other ambulances, three or four different companies, you don’t get the same service so where do we actually benefit at the cost of people’s lives? It doesn’t hurt to have a discussion and it doesn’t cost anything to discuss but you cannot go into negotiations at 65% less and expect more. It’s impossible. This RFP we had, five people, two people, was not compatible or did not meet the conditions of the RFP, the other three wanted subsidy, only one offered one ambulance, the other one I don’t have a clue but out of 160 ambulance companies in the state of Georgia only five responded to our RFP. Apparently there is something wrong with the RFP. There’s not enough there for a private company to even look at it and say if this could be profitable for their company. All this is is to sit down and meet and let’s see what both sides of the table could come up to and it’s coming to an understanding, to a mutual ground, to a centerline where if both people don’t leave happy but they’re able to meet, discuss and come up with a solution, it’s a good deal. It’s a better deal for our citizens when it comes to safety we’re going to provide for them. I'd like to make a motion to approve this. Mr. Frantom: Second. Mr. Mayor: All right, I’ve got a motion and a second. I’ve got more lights, more th discussion. Commissioner from the 4. Mr. Sias: Thank you. I hear a lot about the citizens of Augusta and their safety and one of the things that gives you pause and say when did that become important when we talk about Gold Cross. Back in 2002 Gold Cross lost a bid to be the ambulance provider. They were rejected unanimously by the technical committee in 2002 and they recommended another company. That didn’t sit too well with some folks. In 2005 we bid it again. 2005 we had another technical committee and a bid process. That technical committee unanimously recommended another company. They did not recommend Gold Cross based on all things considered. One of the things 6 considered Gold Cross requested a $1.9 million dollar subsidy. Another company requested a subsidy of $400,000. We know who ended up with the bid. There has never been a bid for that contract since then. Since 2005 Gold Cross continually received extensions from this body and that is the first thing wrong with any service when you’re trying to get the best bang for your buck. It just continues and extends forever. Second, in 2013 the City put out a bid for EMS ambulance services. 13 ambulance companies from around this area joined that RFP process, however, by the end of 2013 the City had rejected that process and decided to scrap the bid process and just extend the contract of the present provider. It initiated a new contract for three years in 2014. But I guess that was kind of unappreciated by Gold Cross because it went out for the zone. They didn’t sit down and meet with us when they decided they were going to pursue the zone and through a process I could say I consider a bit flawed, if you want to say that’s the same process they’re complaining about now. Same process they used that we’re using. So while we’re extending their contract, they go back and say they want the zone entirely. Let’s go back to the co-provider piece of the zone. Also in 2005 there was a letter sent from the Administrator and there’s no record in the minutes where that was approved by the Commission and established this co-provider. But I didn’t hear anybody protesting back then. This body in its authority did not authorize that letter in 2005. We always talk about our Clerk but I don’t think she can find that in the minutes. So it didn’t happen yet we talk about honesty and integrity and all this stuff and how we’re taking care of the people. What happened then? Now we come back up to 2014 where we’ve cancelled a bid, an RFP where we had 13 ambulance companies to come up and step to the plate, some of the same ones who got gipped in 2005. They’re still around. Now we get to this point where we talk about the service and all this, accountability and we were paying over a million dollars a year as a subsidy and there was absolutely no accountability. I remember there was a contract administrator who went out and decided that they were going to do their job and check on this process and make sure everything was working right. That was a dumb mistaken. That contract administrator subsequently nearly lost his job. So now we need, we’ll get a new contract administrator who is the same one who wrote the letter saying give them co-providers on the zone. The administrator at the time. I don’t think there was a lot of accountability then. So simply when we come down to it this time when we said okay, here’s the subsidy we’re going to offer you. You’re the zone provider; you’re accountable only to the state. That was the decision that Gold Cross made. They didn’t ask us so when you got the zone, you’re responsible for that. And at this point when the city decided, it’s become a big issue now that we want real accountability. I really don’t see it and I am a politician. I looked it up in Webster and it said a person who is going to make decisions for the public. That’s what we’ve been elected to do. Some folks say they are not politicians but why then are you in elected office? So I’m going to close with this, Mayor. I do not support this agenda item. I don’t see the reason for it. We need to finish the process that is ongoing and we haven’t applied for the zone but once. That process is ongoing and it has not ended. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Do you yield for a series of questions? Mr. Sias: Sure. Mr. Mayor: Is it not true that the subsidy was for the purpose of transport for poor people, i.e. indigent, in Richmond County? 7 Mr. Sias: To the best of my knowledge and understanding, that’s exactly what the million and 1.33 million dollars was for. That’s a lot of poor folks. Mr. Mayor: Is it also not true that most recently an RFP process was made available and Gold Cross chose not to respond in either case? Mr. Sias: To the best of my knowledge they were not one of the folks who applied for that RFP, however, they had applied for other RFPs for ambulance service in Augusta in the past. Mr. Mayor: And to the degree that they did not apply for what was supposed to be a pure process in either instance and yet today we find ourselves here with a request to “negotiate” and discuss with them. That’s what’s before us today, is that not true? Mr. Sias: That’s correct and I want to go back to this when our Administrator and our attorney met with them. That request was sent to this body as a confidential request. That is why it wasn’t discussed out here. It was privileged information if I remember correctly. th Mr. Mayor: I agree. The Chair recognizes the commissioner from the 6. Mr. Hasan: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, I have a couple of questions just for some clarity to Chief James, if you don’t mind. Chief, when exactly was Gold Cross awarded the zone? Chief James: 2014. Mr. Hasan: Chief, did that go through the EMS Council Board to apply for the zone? Chief James: Yes, sir. Mr. Hasan: Did we participate in that process to attempt to maintain the zone? Chief James: Yes, sir. Mr. Hasan: Who made the final decision about that? What was recommended from the EMS Council and where did it end up at? Chief James: The first time the EMS Council recommended that the City of Augusta receive the zone. It went forth to Atlanta, Gold Cross filed an appeal to stop that process then. Dr. O’Neill sent it back to that council to redo it and then on the second time that they redone it, then they made a recommendation of Gold Cross. It went up to the state, the City tried to appeal that. We went up to Atlanta for a hearing then Dr. O’Neill ruled in favor of Gold Cross. Mr. Hasan: With the appeal process that Gold Cross done that time, did it stop pretty much where we are stopped right now or did it stop from Dr. O’Neill from making a decision? 8 Chief James: The last time when they filed the complaint to the state Dr. O’Neill sent it back then the Council resent another recommendation to Dr. O’Neill and then he accepted that recommendation but the process is set up so that if you did not agree with it, you can appeal to the state office of EMS. Mr. Hasan: And so Dr. O’Neill made the decision? Chief James: Yes, sir. Mr. Hasan: On the EMS Council Board they reversed their decision as well going back through that process, right, or did they not? Chief James: Yes, sir, they did. Mr. Hasan: Do you remember any extenuating circumstances that caused them to change their mind and move it from the City to go back to Gold Cross and recommend Gold Cross to the state? Was there anything that stood out to you whether it was fairly or unfairly? I’m just trying to see what the circumstances were. Chief James: At that time we were co-zone providers and we had an actual contract with Gold Cross at that time from the City of Augusta. So the words that came back from the state was efficiency and economy and betterment for the public welfare. So they separated us from our contract that we had and then basically said Augusta has two ambulances, Gold Cross has more ambulances. They did not consider the contract that we already had with Gold Cross that was providing other ambulances for us. Mr. Hasan: Did Dr. O’Neill, well, I’ll leave that alone. And Dr. O’Neill is still in the same position and will still make the final decision again? Chief James: Yes, sir. He’s still in the same position and will make the final decision again. Mr. Hasan: Thank you. Mr. Mayor: All right, here’s our posture. We’ve got a motion and a second. I’m going to th go to the commissioner from the 7. This is your agenda item and we’ve got a motion to approve the City of Augusta meeting with Gold Cross to discuss the following items. My question to you is what is your expectation from this conversation? What deliverables do you want brought back to this body? Mr. Frantom: I mean I think we have to talk about everything that’s on here and anything else that the city would want or Gold Cross would want. I mean I saw on the news that Gold Cross is ready to talk and everything is on the table of what they would be willing to do and for us not to 9 have this conversation in my mind is just disappointing when it seems like they want to be true partners. Mr. Mayor: Who do you believe needs to be a part of this conversation? Mr. Frantom: I think because of history that probably a few commissioners should be at the table to be honest with you and the Administrator and Law and Fire Department. Mr. Mayor: So what you’re suggesting is that we should abandon the procurement process and we should go and sit down and have a cup of coffee or a cup of tea and decide whether we’re going to enter into a contractual obligation for what statutorily Gold Cross is responsible for providing? Mr. Frantom: The RFP has already been null and void. Mr. Mayor: No, no, no, no, no. What you’re suggesting is we should go and sit down and have tea or coffee and again I’m being colorful for lack of crying and us enter into a discussion with Gold Cross to provide what the law already says that they should be providing. Mr. Frantom: Absolutely. We should sit down and have negotiations with Gold Cross. Mr. Mayor: Okay, and what are the deliverables that you want to come back from that conversation? Mr. Frantom: I mean I don’t think I can sit here and say it. I’m not the expert here. But I think it’s very vague and it’s very understanding of the history, the fact that the issues that the Fire Department had, the reasons that they wanted the zone, I mean some of these things are covered in that and why can’t we bring what the Fire Department wants and what Gold Cross wants together and see if we can have, I guess a marriage in a sense, as opposed to just saying we’re not going to talk to them. Oh, we’re going to continue to fight. Enough fighting. The people are tired of us fighting. It’s time we get together and work this out. Mr. Mayor: The Mayor of the city is certainly tired of having this nonsense going on. In my almost 12 years of being an elected official at the state and local level that I’m constantly reminded that we do things differently at the local level and I couldn’t agree with you more. In all of my days I have never, I have never, ever seen something of this magnitude of where the forces external to local government would come and mandate that a governing body do business with a particular entity. I have never in all of my days known a situation or scenario where it was the government’s responsibility to prop up a private sector business on the basis of long standing and historical perspectives or narratives to the degree that you abandon all legal processes and beside that you are going to have a group of individuals go and sit down and negotiate how to maintain a private sector business that at the end of the day statutorily because they have been provided zone provider status that we then have to usurp all reason let alone procurement processes and mandate that the citizens of Augusta have to engage in a single entity when the law says it is Gold Cross’ 10 responsibility to render EMS services pursuant to the vote of the EMS Council back in 2014. I have never in all of my days seen anything like that and for us to sit here and to perpetuate that. To include the letter that was sent on yesterday from one Vince Brogden, their attorney of record, Attorney MacKenzie, I saw him this morning and he asked me why as he’s asked the commissioner rd from the 3 on multiple occasions why won’t ya’ll sit down and talk to us and I made this colorful statement and I think it certainly holds true with regards to this letter, why would you stick your finger in my eye and then ask me to sit down and say it’s okay and say now let me talk to you. I don’t know where you do that at. But to the degree that, and I’m coming back to the commissioner th from the 7 – Mr. Frantom: I was coming back to that statement. You’re acting like we didn’t do anything wrong as a city for the past seven, ten years. Come on now, I mean, I said that in my opening statement. This isn’t just Gold Cross’ fault. Mr. Mayor: We’ll get there. I’m going to get there. I’m equal opportunity today. I’m going to get there. And here we have a letter again indicating all of the salient points as to why everybody’s using this term marriage. This is like a pre-nup agreement almost. I didn’t ask my wife (inaudible). I just said marry me. I’m going to take care of you. I’m going to treat you better than your daddy did. And she’ll tell you to this day that I’ve done that. So let me say this right here again I appreciate this letter. I do. The salient points that are in here and all of these things. I’ve also never in all of my days, Ms. Bonner, seen judicial overreach of this magnitude that further says that there is an appearance of a conflict of interest. I don’t know much but the last time I checked in every instance the Chair of the EMS Council at least in this instance recused himself from all of the actions that were taken in not only the zoning sub-committee and yet we find ourselves here of where this body is and I know of no other instance of where this body is mandating and saying you only have an opportunity to work with one vendor that abandons our procurement process when in fact they are the zone provider. We’ve got 202,000 citizens in this city. 202,000. We’ve heard the good and the bad about service and again, I only have one instance. The folks that work for Gold Cross, they are our friends, and in many instances our co-workers, particularly those that are part of the Augusta Fire Department. Honorable men and women. On April 24 of this year and I don’t talk about this much but I’m going to talk about it now. I was on the other side of Thomson coming from Atlanta, Georgia. I was roughly at about Exit 175 and got an emergency call from my wife that my son was in the bed and could not move. I told her to hang up and call my dad and tell him to go over there. He was at the church and he ran over there and what many people in Augusta don’t know is our Fire Department is a first responder and going to show up on the scene. I’m at Exit 175 and my driver heard this conversation and without thinking made a decision I got to get you to your house. For those of you who know where I live in Hephzibah and I got to my house before Gold Cross did and when I got there, I was there for a minimum of 20 plus minutes before they showed up. Now I’m going to be frank with you about this. The guys who came from Gold Cross, they are the nicest folks. They are and we had pleasant conversation but when your only child says that he can’t move and the first responders show up and he still ain’t moving what I’m not going to do is sit here and hear this conversation and talk about we need to talk to Gold Cross and come to a meeting of the minds. That’s what I’m not th going to do. I’ve said this, commissioner from the 6, from day one that I question the wisdom of 11 this conversation and how we were doing it. You and I have had very candid conversations about th the Chief, about his team. We’ve had candid conversations about the commissioner from the 4 and what he was attempting to do and we have had very candid conversations that we did not trust what was being done. I’m going to say this again. We have 202,000 residents in this city and that th number is growing. This body in unaninimity voted, commissioner from the 7, 8 to 0 to become the zone provider. There are really only two questions, only two questions. One is the issue of who will be the zone provider. Currently Gold Cross has it all. They are the ambulance service and they are the zone provider and they sure as heck better do a good job because people do not care whether it’s Gold Cross, Priority Care, Capital City, SouthStar but when I dial 911 you better show up and I don’t care where you come from. But we’re fighting right now about whether we can keep Gold Cross at the table. That is not our job. That is not our job. We have said we want the zone to be open. That is what we want to see happen because we believe just like the other 13 counties in the region 11 of which are zone providers. We want to be able to determine our own destiny and decide who we want to do business with as opposed to having a gun whether it’s from the judiciary or from the public opinion tell us well, you can’t do nothing but with Gold Cross. If that were true, AU Health would not have chosen Grady to come in and provide transport so much so that the paper touted it, put it above the fold and said what a wonderful day it is in Augusta, and now we find ourselves at this place of this notion of a debate about whether or not we should be doing this. At the end of the day there is a reason why AU is not even talking. They’re silent. But they’ve moved on and said we’re going to use Grady. Everybody else can determine their future except the City of Augusta because we’re hamstrung with the traditional narratives of this is the way we’ve done it, this is the way we’re always going to do it, and we’re going to get everybody in line until we do it the way we’ve always done it. I’m telling you that is not how we should be operating. Ladies and gentlemen, we have an opportunity to one, pursue the zone. I understand that there is a great deal of consternation about whether we should be in the ambulance business. We’ve had an ambulance license since 1971, Mayor Pro Tem. Since ’71. We’ve had ambulances in this city since shortly thereafter. Now here we are at this place. There are only two questions before us. One, will we continue to pursue the zone which unequivocally we should be doing and number two, if we’re going to have an ambulance provider in the area, those should be procured services, not negotiated services around a group of people outside of the current laws and rules that get us to that place. We should not do that. That is not our role as elected officials. That is not our th role. We have a motion and a second. I’m going back to the commissioner from the 7 to close out. Mr. M. Williams: Mayor, I’ve been had my hand up, excuse me, commissioner, for quite some time and I’m going to interrupt because I’ve been patient and you asked me to try to be patient and I’ve been trying. But you ain’t going to ignore me. I’m elected just like you are and I”ve got just as much right to speak like you have. Now you don’t control this body. Mr. Mayor: You’re right, I don’t control it. Mr. M. Williams: You don’t control this body and I’m trying my best – Mr. Mayor: Put your hand down. 12 Mr. M. Williams: Okay, before you take that vote I’m going to be recognized. th Mr. Mayor: Commissioner from the 7 has the floor. Mr. Frantom: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I think you’ve made the call to change the grade but I think you need to check and see if they’re still (inaudible) Gold Cross first off. You know, these are the cards that we’re dealt with and this is why this issue is still a problem in our community. You sat there for six or seven minutes and talked about it. We’re putting politics over people and that’s the bottom line. Unfortunately, you know the last time I saw my father on this earth was coming off an ambulance and I sat there in UH Hospital and I saw six ambulances in 30 minutes and I saw what this means to the community and it’s not something we need to be playing around with and all we’re doing is trying to have a conversation with them. The cards are dealt. No, we shouldn’t continue to fight for the zone. We’re not ready for the zone. This community is growing and we need to be lowering our liabilities. We need to be putting safety measures in. But to sit here and say we shouldn’t be doing this, we shouldn’t even go down this road. In my mind that’s crazy. This is why we’re here today after so many years because we’ve been fighting this issue for years. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: All right, the Chair recognizes the Mayor Pro Tem. Ms. Davis: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’ve been in support of us going after the zone for years. But right now I don’t have faith in any of the processes that are going on. Can I ask Mr. MacKenzie something about a couple of our options? Where are we right now with pursuing the zone? Mr. MacKenzie: Well, right now the process has been enjoined as a result of a court order and so everything is kind of on hold. It’s my understanding there will be an appeal from that, from the state side, so that could result in possibly that order either being overturned or the process would just be redone which would result in a delay and then Augusta would have the opportunity to submit an application again if the process is redone. Ms. Davis: So would we be able to if this went forward to have discussions with who is currently the zone provider, which is Gold Cross, have discussions and then continue to go forward with pursuing the zone as well just to have our options seeing what we’re dealing with? Mr. MacKenzie: You could certainly do that. Nothing would prohibit you from having discussions with any provider. Mr. Davis. If we had discussions, what would be your recommendation of who should be at that table if that happened? Mr. MacKenzie: I think the recommendation of what was spoken before is nothing that I would oppose. I think you would probably need someone from the relevant departments that are going to be affected by the services being acquired so I would think 911, the Fire Department, probably someone from Finance possibly since this relates to a lot of financial factors as well. 13 We're looking at multiple, different issues like the subsidy and things along those lines and since obviously Legal has been involved in that, we'd like to be a part of it as well. If the Commission would like to designate some representatives from the Commission that would be a possibility and the Administrator of course. Ms. Davis: Mr. Mayor, if we did move forward with this I would like that to be a firm recommendation coming from legal as to who should be at that table so that the process is fair if that happens, if the conversation happens and who should be at the table and that needs to come from our legal department I believe and also with Procurement. I mean we need to have the experts to make sure if conversations happen we need to make sure it’s fair. This is why this is all everybody is so upset because people aren’t trusting what has been going on. I still think we should get the zone. Do I trust that moving forward if we got the zone that everything that I’ve seen so far as with the RFP if we had some of our 25% involvement in these services that it wouldn’t bleed us? No, I don’t trust that right now. So I want to see options. I know that there’s been some messes in the past but moving forward we’ve got to do this right. And so I want to see what our options are. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. All right, the Chair recognizes the commissioner st from the 1. Mr. Fennoy: May I ask Andrew a couple of questions? Mr. Mayor: Absolutely. Mr. Fennoy: Andrew, what is the significance of having the zone? Mr. MacKenzie: Control is probably the biggest issue. Being the zone provider means that you can control, you can contract out with one or more providers. You can provide some of the services yourself. You have the ability to be the decision maker over the process whereas if someone else is the zone provider, you just don’t have that ability other than trying to negotiate with whoever does have that ability. Mr. Fennoy: Hypothetical, if I have the zone and I’m also providing ambulance service for this particular area, do I have to let other ambulance services compete for the, to do work in this area? Mr. MacKenzie: Generally no but it is common even if you’re a huge zone provider, huge company, you’re going to need to have some contracts for peak times when you just can’t handle the volume so that’s pretty common if you can’t handle it, you’re going to referring some calls out. Mr. Fennoy: And if I have the zone and I also have the ambulance service, do I have to let anyone know my response time? 14 Mr. MacKenzie: Unless it’s required as part of the EMS zoning process, then you’re not held accountable to any zone response times that you have to respond. Mr. Mayor: Okay, hold on a minute, attorney. The EMS zone Council standards, the guidelines, they require you to speak to the issue of response times. Mr. MacKenzie: You can speak to it but I’m saying it’s not like you have a contract in place with another jurisdiction or something they may have some consequences if you don’t meet certain time frames. That’s one of the issues that you try to negotiate if you don’t have the, if you’re not the zone provider, you try to get the response times down by (inaudible). Mr. Fennoy: And my next to the last question if I have the zone am I required to provide ambulance services to the city that I have the zone in? Mr. MacKenzie: You don’t have to self-provide them but you have agreed by getting the zone that there will be responses to EMS calls but it doesn’t have to be done by the provider themselves. For example, if we were the zone provider it doesn’t mean that our Fire Department will respond to every call but we could accomplish that obligation by having contracts with one or more companies to respond and that’s part of what the EMS Council does is looking at different people who say I can do the best job and someone else says no, I can do it and their job is to look at those different entities and say who is going to be the best to do the job. th Mr. Mayor: The Chair recognizes the commissioner from the 9. Mr. M. Williams: This is not a smiling event as far as I’m concerned. This is too serious for that. But I listened to you for quite some time and I wonder if you’re confusing and maybe not understanding but the 12 years that you’ve been here – Mr. Mayor: I’ve only been here four. Mr. M. Williams: Well, you stated 12. Mr. Mayor: I said 12 as an elected official. Mr. M. Williams: The 12 years you’ve been here, elected official or not, the 12 years that you mentioned, this issue that we’ve been dealing with here now is going on. You asked a question and I tried to get the Clerk to explain to you earlier about six votes. If six votes says something you might not like it, but if six votes says something then that’s what the law is at that point. Now you say why are we negotiating with Gold Cross when they are the zone provider? In my mind that’s why we are negotiating with them is because you just said it was the state certified zone provider. They have the zone. So who would we negotiate with if we weren’t going to negotiate with them? I don’t particularly like that. I’m going back, the district 4 commissioner said back in 2005 and 2014, some other dates, I don’t remember the dates but I do remember before he got elected that he came in the previous chamber saying that Gold Cross was this, that and the other 15 and he’s going to get rid of them and da, da, da before he got elected. Now all that is playing out today, all that’s being brought back to this same body saying that they are no good, they’re doing this and they’re doing that. I’m not up here to play games up here. I take this job very, very seriously even though the Mayor thinks he can use that Georgia Tech dialogue, Sean, and make you think that he’s smarter than the average bear but something’s wrong with that when we sit up here and act like we don’t know what the situation is about. People are suffering. How can you demand any services from somebody without paying them at all? How can you tell a taxicab to be at your house and pick you up at a certain time and drop you off if you’re not going to pay him? Now something is wrong with that. Something is seriously wrong with that. And I’m for sitting down, talking and putting this on the table and if we don’t get this resolved today, Ms. Bonner, I want you to automatically put this back on the agenda now. This ain’t going to bed. We’re not going to put this to sleep. We’re going to get this resolved at some point at some time. So the Mayor don’t have to answer me today. He don’t have to recognize me today but I wasn’t holding my hands up in the air because I just don’t care. In fact I held them up just the opposite because I do care and I think this is a good agenda item and we ought to be negotiating and looking at what we can do to get this resolved and so we can move forward with the people in Richmond County getting the best and the safest ambulance service we can afford and if six votes says pay it, then we’ll pay it. We done throwed money away on millions and millions of dollars on stuff and nobody said a word about it but the ambulance service we going to strain on that. It’s really bad that when we look at some things hard and other things we don’t and I ain’t playing no games with none of them. Mr. Mayor: All right, we have a motion and a second. I’m going to recognize the Mayor Pro Tem. Ms. Davis: I'm going to rely on Mr. MacKenzie because I agree. We need to, again, if we do this we need to make sure it is done correctly and the right people are at the table. And I think the Mayor should be there. He’s representing, yeah, I do, I agree with that. Well, that would be in Commissioner Guilfoyle’s motion. If Mr. MacKenzie could give the suggestions. Commissioner Guilfoyle, I don't know if you just heard Ms. Bonner, if she could clarify what Mr. MacKenzie has suggested. The Clerk: He's recommended the Augusta Fire Department, Finance Department, the Administrator, legal representative, E911 and designated members from the Commission. Ms. Davis: Would you amend that to make sure that this is done correctly from the beginning that this happens? Amend your motion I mean. Mr. Guilfoyle: Yes, ma'am. I will. th Mr. Mayor: The Chair recognizes the commissioner from the 6. Mr. Hasan: Mr. Mayor, I pretty much didn’t want to say that much more around this issue. But I do concur. I would wish hoping in these conversations if it goes that way the City does need the zone. I just can’t see us paying somebody else and we just have no authority for a city that’s 16 growing and if we made that conscious decision to do that, that’s one thing. But we’re at a junction where I think we need to have control of it especially when you make an offer and the offer is outrightly refused because we think it’s going to get back to a place where it was previously and I just don’t see that. If you’re talking about if we are not even going to have the zone to give somebody in excess of $800,000, $900,000, a million dollars, a million and one and you don’t even have the zone, I think it’s a disservice to this government. So I think we need to be very firm and committed to what we want to do if a person wants to negotiate because by law obviously they know better than we do that we don’t owe them anything. They’ve asked for this from the state and based on efficiency, economy and there’s another “e” there somewhere they said we could provide this service so it’s not anti them and I concur. Absolutely. This is not about for me and I think for many of ya’ll as well it is not anti-Gold Cross as much as I think in many ways the Commission has neglected to do their responsibility in holding (inaudible) accountable that they’re paying to the tune of millions of dollars and to not have any say-so like I’ve always said, once they became the zone providers, I think the contract that they had in ’13 for me that contract was null and void and so we came back and made them an offer as them being the zone providers and providing ambulance service, we made them an offer and they refused it. So if the decision goes south, meaning that it goes to the (inaudible) that they negotiate, I won’t be able to support that but if it does, I’m hoping that we hold it in the road and get those numbers back to which they once was when they were not the zone provider and we were co-providers. Those numbers don’t need to be there. They really don’t if that’s where this thing’s headed. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. th Mr. Mayor: Okay, all right, I’m going to recognize the commissioner from the 5. Mr. Jefferson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. As I told my colleagues much earlier in this process, it’s no secret that I would like to see Augusta Richmond County have the zone. But at the same time I feel that every day or every week, every time I’m coming in contract with different people in the community, there’s a complaint about the rates for transporting and non-transporting. So until that time happens that the zone provider is decided in the courts I think we should sit down and see if there is some type of relief we could provide the taxpayers meanwhile by sitting down talking to the current provider to see if the, a happy medium could be made because a lot of people are up in arms about the prices of transport and non-transport visits by the ambulance service so I just want to make it clear that I’m all in favor of securing the zone for Augusta Richmond County but I do feel that we need to sit down and negotiate something meanwhile. Thank you. st Mr. Mayor: Okay. I recognize the commissioner from the 1. Mr. Fennoy: Mr. Mayor, I think that if a meeting does take place then the Mayor should be a part of it. Mr. M. Williams: No, that’s not what he said. The Mayor is a part of the Commission. Ain’t no separate here. Ya’ll get some understanding here. The Mayor is part of the Commission. He’s a part but not just the Mayor specified. 17 The Clerk: Designed members from the Commission. He could be one of the designated members. Mr. Mayor: Absolutely. Absolutely. We need to decide that today. Because I think what needs to happen after today is that we move forward and not be delaying when the game is played on the field and not in the huddle. So we need to get on the field. I’ll recognize the commissioner th from the 8. Mr. Guilfoyle: Go ahead and put in the two that I would think would be fair, level headed and not biased either way that would be the Mayor Pro Tem Mary Davis and Commissioner Andrew Jefferson. I think that would be a fair equitable – Ms. Davis: I appreciate that but I don't want to be a part of this. I still recommend the Mayor and Commissioner Jefferson I guess is the other one you said and I’m fine with that but that’s my two cents worth. Mr. Guilfoyle: So be it. Call for the question. The Clerk: So the designated members from the Commission would be the Mayor and Commissioner Andrew Jefferson. Mr. D. Williams: Mr. Mayor, I think the Chairman of Public Safety Committee (inaudible). Mr. Hasan: Who would that be? I thought the audience needed to know. The Clerk: Is that good? Mr. Mayor: That's good. The Clerk: The Mayor, Commissioner Jefferson and the Chairman of Public Safety Committee, Commissioner Dennis Williams. Mr. Mayor: Voting. The Clerk: We're voting on item 3 with the addition of the recommended participants from Augusta Richmond County. The Augusta Fire Department, the Finance Department, the Administrator, Legal, E911, the Mayor, Commissioner Jefferson and Commissioner Dennis Williams as Public Safety Chair. We’re going to clear the votes out and then, you’re good, Commissioner Fennoy? Okay. Mr. Mayor: All right, voting. Mr. Fennoy, Mr. D. Williams and Mr. Sias vote No. Motion carries 7-3. 18 Mr. Mayor: Attorney MacKenzie, Madam Clerk, is there any other business before us in the special called session? The Clerk: I’m good. Mr. MacKenzie: (inaudible). Mr. Mayor: That portion of our meeting is adjourned. \[MEETING ADJOURNED\] Lena J. Bonner Clerk of Commission CERTIFICATION: I, Lena J. Bonner, Clerk of Commission, hereby certify that the above is a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Called Meeting of the Augusta Richmond County Commission held on October 9, 2018. ________________________ Clerk of Commission 19