HomeMy WebLinkAboutCalled Commission Meeting May 31, 2011
CALLED MEETING COMMISSION CHAMBER
May 31, 2011
Augusta Richmond County Commission convened at 12:00 Noon, Tuesday, May 31,
2011, the Honorable Deke Copenhaver, Mayor, presiding.
PRESENT: Hons. Lockett, Guilfoyle, Mason, Smith, Hatney, Johnson, Jackson, Bowles
and Brigham, members of Augusta Richmond County Commission.
ABSENT: Hon. Aitken, member of Augusta Richmond County Commission.
Mayor Copenhaver called the meeting to order.
Mr. Mayor: Mr. MacKenzie.
Mr. MacKenzie: We have one item on here we should probably take up first. That’s
item one.
1.Discuss designating the courthouse of Augusta-Richmond County. (Requested by
Mayor Pro Tem Joe Bowles)
Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Bowles, I believe this was –
Mr. Bowles: Yes, sir. This idea came to me and I believe that Attorney Wayne Brown
has been working on that and I’d like to hear from him.
Mr. Mayor: Mr. Brown.
Mr. Brown: Good afternoon, Commission. This item, research was requested regarding
this item and it was completed and it was determined that the authority to designate the various
courthouses of any county in Georgia resides with this governing body. This has been a
(inaudible) issue at least since 1927 by the Supreme Court. It is embodied in a Georgia statute,
O.C.G.A. 36-9-5, which obligates the governing authority of each county to erect, repair, and
designate the courthouses of their county as well as the jails. They also are required to furnish
these courthouses and they are also in the next section, 36-9-6, also have authority to designate
who will be in what rooms as to constitutional officers. So it is within the authority of the
Commission to designate the courthouses of Augusta-Richmond County.
Mr. Mayor: Okay.
Mr. Bowles: Mr. Mayor, in my line of following this one is if we could designate the
Municipal Building, a room in it, as a Courthouse Annex and have overflow traffic from there
and always keep it open for a jury and all, we can have, since this chamber is only used for a
couple of meetings a week, it would be useful to have that as an overflow type room and we
could satisfy the requirement to meet at the Courthouse. And, Andrew, what’s your opinion on
that?
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Mr. MacKenzie: I concur with that. I think there’s also been some feedback from the
judges as well as a need for a larger location in the event there was a very large case and when
we rehab this building the second floor will probably be a much larger chambers than what we
have here which would fit that need as well.
Mr. Mayor: Okay, gentlemen, I believe there’s a –
Mr. Hatney: Question.
Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Hatney.
Mr. Hatney: My question is in view of the fact that, I’m just asking for information,
that’s all, because I don’t see where none of this is necessary, but I’m just asking for information,
this building when it was erected years back housed the, some of the courts and all of the other
stuff that’s still here to include, one time the commissioners met here and the city councilpersons
and later on they built 401and the courts down there and they put some also down on Broad
Street and this kind of stuff has never come up before and my concern, my question is in view of
the fact that this is already designated as the Municipal Building, why is it necessary to do
anything when it’s already the building, the chambers have already been designated here. I just
think it’s a waste of good time and our attorneys could be doing something that’s fruitful rather
than fooling around with this stuff here because it’s already designated, it already is the
Municipal Building. I’ve just got a problem because it’s just wasting time on something that
don’t make any – because it’s already that, it’s already here. Some of the courts moved out, fine,
but you’ve had courts all over Augusta for years. I don’t remember them designating 401 as an
annex when they set up down there so why have you got to do it here? I think this place is set up
like it needs to be, whatever revitalization you need to do is going to set up a room down there,
you need to do that but leave all this other stuff out. This is a waste of time. Thank you.
Mr. Mayor: Mr. MacKenzie, you –
Mr. MacKenzie: Sure, I appreciate your concern in that regard and I think one of the
reasons we’re doing this is the Chief Judge has actually designated the new Courthouse as the
Courthouse. This is to insure that we have designated this building as an alternative location in
addition to that location just to clear up the (inaudible).
Mr. Hatney: Well, it doesn’t make sense to me still. Okay, go ahead. Ya’ll go ahead and
do what ya’ll are going to do.
Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Lockett.
Mr. Lockett: This is for the General Counsel. Mr. MacKenzie, why is there a need for an
alternative location?
Mr. MacKenzie: The feedback we’ve been getting from the judges is that the courtrooms
over in the new building are all the same size. There’s isn’t one that’s a larger size in case there
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was a very large trial. There could be a need for that reason to have a much bigger location
available to have big cases.
Mr. Lockett: Are you saying then that if the need should arise, would this remain in the
Municipal Building that they could not hear those cases over here?
Mr. MacKenzie: No, you actually can, pursuant to state law, so designate specific
locations. The court could at that time designate this building on a case-by-case basis and also
could designate another location because even, I guess with a really big case, even this building
wouldn’t be sufficient so the state law regime does have a way for the courts to designate another
location for specific cases.
Mr. Lockett: Okay, so in other words, what Commissioner Hatney said is correct in its
entirety. There is no need to do this. And my last question to you or to whomever, what would
be the cost implication?
Mr. MacKenzie: To my knowledge there wouldn’t be a cost implication. This would
just designate this as an alternative location for certain cases. They would just do them in the
chamber; I don’t think that would have an additional cost.
Mr. Lockett: And my last question, does that mean we will have a part of this building
that’s just sitting there waiting to see if there might be a need in the future?
Mr. MacKenzie: The motion that you have before you is actually to designate the
Commission Chamber as an alternative location for courthouse proceedings so it would be the
same chambers that we currently use for this purpose.
Mr. Lockett: No other questions, Mr. Mayor.
Mr. Mayor: Okay, thank you. Yes, sir, Al.
Mr. Mason: Okay, thank you, Mr. Mayor. What’s your title? Are you a Deputy or Staff
Attorney, what’s your title?
Mr. Brown: I’m the Senior Staff Attorney.
Mr. Mason: You’re the Senior Staff Attorney. Okay, you made mention about you
received a request which caused you to delve into this situation. Requested by whom?
Mr. Brown: Initially I talked to Commissioner Brigham and I also talked to
Commissioner Joe Bowles.
Mr. Mason: And so, well, first of all let me clear up something that legal counsel said.
All those rooms aren’t the same over there. I don’t know if you took a tour or actually went over
and took a look into the rooms but every one of the judges’ rooms is not the same size. Okay, so
that’s an inaccurate statement. Now, as far as the cost effectiveness of this situation that you’re
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bringing before us today, it sounds as though there would be some areas as been previously
mentioned sitting around waiting for somebody to put it in use. Is that not correct?
Mr. Brown: I really think that’s a question for the Administrator but my understanding is
it was not for rooms in this building to be used for judicial purposes does not require them to be
isolated and to sit idle in the interim when they’re being used particularly if the chambers were
used, it would be used around what is previously scheduled for this chamber.
Mr. Mason: You’re right; maybe it is a question for the Administrator to answer.
Mr. Brown: I simply meant that in terms of how it’s actually going to be physically
structured.
Mr. Mason: Now, you cited something back in 1937. What was all that about?
Mr. Brown: It was 1927.
Mr. Mason: ’27?
Mr. Brown: Yes. That’s, my reverses, Gleaton which is the Georgia Supreme Court
located at 164 Georgia, page 402. The Supreme Court affirmed that the County authorities have
a broad discretion as to the designation of where their courts are and that the courts themselves
cannot disturb that decision unless it’s a clear abuse of authority. And they should only overturn
the decisions of a county government authority to designate their courthouses if there is a clear
abuse of authority and they should do so cautiously if at all.
Mr. Mason: So with this that you have before us here today, how many votes does it take
to pass this thing?
Mr. Brown: It takes six votes.
Mr. Mason: So it takes six votes. I’m led to believe at this point today after two and a
half and maybe three months of discussion on a designation of a courthouse that all of a sudden
we can come up with this particular answer or need seeing as though the other didn’t pass and
oh, by the way, we can do it now with six votes. That’s what you’re telling me.
Mr. Brown: What you could not do with six votes two months ago you cannot do with
six votes today. What you could not do two months ago with six votes is to change the charter
requirement that this body meet in the courthouse. That remains a law and it cannot be changed
with less than eight votes by this council. What this is is ordinary business of Augusta
Richmond County, of any county, for this governing authority to designate what are the
courthouses of that county. As Rev. Hatney said, the courthouse has always been in more than
one place in this county or for many years has been in more than one place in this county.
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Mr. Mason: So why are we designating anything? I still haven’t heard the answer to his
question. Because we didn’t do that for 401 and some various other places. I still don’t have an
answer to that.
Mr. Brown: I’m not aware of that, however, I think the most appropriate, the most open
and honest answer would be is that it could possibly save the county from being drawn into
litigation by less informed parties that this is no longer the courthouse and usually, an ounce of
prevention is worth a pound of cure. If it is specifically designated as a courthouse or a
courthouse annex for Augusta Richmond County, there will be no room for judicial challenge of
this matter.
Mr. Mason: And it took you three months to come up with all of this to kind of figure
out how six votes could move it.
Mr. Brown: That was not my purpose.
Mr. Mason: No other question.
Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Hatney.
Mr. Hatney: Don’t sit down, please. This has been, this building has been here forever
and they moved those folks down in that new building. Was this building decertified? Was the
fact that this was the courthouse changed because those folks moved?
Mr. Brown: To my knowledge the designating of the Augusta Judicial Center as a
courthouse for Augusta Richmond County did not remove the designation of this building as a
courthouse.
Mr. Hatney: So why don’t we leave it alone then?
Mr. Brown: That is a possible alternative; however the option to create a clear record is
still also an alternative. But it is my opinion that if that motion were to fail, this still is a
courthouse.
Mr. Hatney: It’s going to be a courthouse. Just because the judges moved – you moved
from your house next door, it’s still a house --
Mr. Brown: I agree, Rev. Hatney.
Mr. Hatney: Okay, I’m through. Ya’ll can do what you want to do.
Mr. Mayor: But basically, just for clarity, this puts us in a better legal position from a
liability standpoint should a third party choose to enter into what most of us would consider
frivolous litigation against this government to try to say that this is not in fact the courthouse.
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Mr. Brown: It certainly is a more protective measure and it is an ounce of prevention that
will shut the issue down.
Mr. Mayor: Okay, thank you, sir. Commissioner Lockett.
Mr. Lockett: Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
Mr. Mayor: And then Commissioner Guilfoyle.
Mr. Lockett: You quoted a 1927 ordinance or what?
Mr. Brown: No, Supreme Court case.
Mr. Lockett: Supreme Court case. To your knowledge since 1927 has there been any
litigation because of that in Augusta Richmond County?
Mr. Brown: Our research shows that this case remains standing. Any case in Augusta
Richmond County would be inferior to this case and would not constitute a relevant rule of law.
Mr. Lockett: My question is this. When we held court at 401 and other places that were
not considered a courthouse or courthouse annex, have there been any losses because we did
that?
Mr. Brown: None to my knowledge.
Mr. Lockett: Thank you.
Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Guilfoyle.
Mr. Guilfoyle: This question is for Andrew MacKenzie. Andrew, when I originally
brought this word “annex” up to you on May 4, is this what you’ve been working on to where we
could get to this point?
Mr. MacKenzie: Initially we had looked at the option of amending the local law which
requires eight votes as the way to resolve the issue of this Commission chambers meeting at the
courthouse and obviously we sent that to Commission and we didn’t get the eight votes to do
that. So we went back to the drawing board to see where the designated authority lied and
initially we thought it may have lied with the court system. The Chief Judge did designate the
Judicial Building as the new courthouse and it was only when we did additional research that we
discovered that the best interpretation of the law would be that this body has the authority to
erect courthouses and to designate them.
Mr. Guilfoyle: Thank you.
Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Mason.
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Mr. Mason: All right. Mr. MacKenzie, you said initially we thought. Who is “we”?
Mr. MacKenzie: Well, that was what was in the court order from the Chief Judge.
Mr. Mason: Who’s “we”? You say, “We thought” based on your investigation, your
analyzing or whatever, who’s the “we”?
Mr. MacKenzie: This would be, I guess, me.
Mr. Mason: You guess, you. You don’t know whether it’s you?
Mr. MacKenzie: We being the Law Department, legal counsel.
Mr. Mason: So the entire Law Department, then, with all their intelligence in terms of
the legal arena, made an error in judgment in your initial thought? Is that what you’re saying
here?
Mr. MacKenzie: I wouldn’t call it an error in judgment. You had two choices that you
could do to fix the issue of where the courthouse meets. You could change the words “at the
courthouse” to fix it that way, that’s the first option we provided for you or you can designate a
different location for the courthouse and we looked at both and the first one, I think, is still the
best way to do it, but that was not successful so then we went back to the drawing board and
came up with a different way.
Mr. Mayor: Mr. Hatney.
Mr. Hatney: One other question, Mr. Andrew, bless your heart, unless there is some
activity, action made to decertify this as a courthouse, and I don’t remember anybody doing that,
then it still remains what it was. Just because somebody moved into a new building and got a
name up there, I mean, because you – this is crazy, man, I know ya’ll got more to do than
(inaudible) something this simple. This is crazy. What’s wrong with it? This is the legislative
body of Augusta, Georgia. You don’t need no ordinance and all that stuff to tell us where to
meet. We’re meeting right here. This is where we’re going to be and ya’ll can go on down
there. I’ll still going to meet down here.
Mr. MacKenzie: You’re right.
Mr. Hatney: I’m just thinking ya’ll are wasting time. I’m serious now. Wasting time
and valuable money but ya’ll get paid a pretty good piece of change to be doing nothing. This is
foolishness right here. A waste of time.
Mr. MacKenzie: There is no question with respect to where the Commission meets. This
is just to create clarity with regard to the legal issue of where the different courthouse locations
are and it is my recommendation that you approve this motion so that you can make it clear here
for anybody who had the idea of filing a lawsuit that this is one of the locations where the
courthouse can meet.
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Mr. Mayor: Would anybody like to make a motion on this?
Mr. Jackson: I’ll make a motion.
Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Jackson.
Mr. Smith: Second.
Mr. Mayor: That’s a motion.
Mr. Hatney: What’s the motion?
Mr. Jackson: It’s a motion to approve the document in front of us.
Mr. Mayor: Okay, we have a motion and a second. And just for the record that’s a
motion to designate the Municipal Building at 501 (sic) Greene Street, Augusta, Georgia, as an
annex and secondary location for the Superior Court of Richmond County, the State Court of
Richmond County, the Civil Court of Richmond County and the Magistrate Court of Richmond
County and to specifically designate the Commission Chambers as one of the rooms in the
Municipal Building to be used for courthouse purposes. If there’s no further discussion,
Commissioners will now vote by the usual sign of voting.
Mr. Mason and Mr. Lockett vote No.
Mr. Hatney abstains.
Mr. Johnson out.
Motion fails 5-2-1.
2.LEGAL MEETING.
A.Pending and potential litigation
B.Real estate
C.Personnel
Mr. Mayor: Mr. MacKenzie.
Mr. MacKenzie: I would entertain a motion to go into a closed legal meeting to
discuss real estate and pending and potential litigation.
Mr. Hatney: So move.
Mr. Bowles: Second.
Mr. Mayor: We have a motion and a second. If there’s no further discussion,
Commissioners will now vote by the usual sign of voting.
Mr. Mason votes No.
Mr. Johnson out.
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Motion carries 7-1.
[LEGAL MEETING]
Mr. Mayor: We’ll call the meeting back to order. Mr. MacKenzie.
3.Motion to approve execution by the Mayor of the affidavit of compliance with
Georgia’s Open Meeting Act.
Mr. MacKenzie: I would entertain a motion to execute the closed meeting affidavit
where the Commission discussed pending and potential litigation and real estate.
Mr. Lockett: So move.
Mr. Mayor: Can I get – we have a motion, is there a second?
Mr. Johnson: Second.
Mr. Mayor: If there’s no further discussion, Commissioners will now vote by the usual
sign.
Mr. Brigham out.
Motion carries 8-0.
Mr. Mayor: Mr. MacKenzie, we have no further business to come before the body?
Mr. MacKenzie: That’s correct.
Mr. Mayor: We stand adjourned.
[MEETING ADJOURNED]
Lena J. Bonner
Clerk of Commission
CERTIFICATION:
I, Lena J. Bonner, Clerk of Commission, hereby certify that the above is a true and correct copy
of the minutes of the Called Meeting of the Augusta Richmond County Commission held on
May 31, 2011.
________________________
Clerk of Commission
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