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HomeMy WebLinkAbout11-15-2001 Meeting I REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE MEETING COMMISSION CHAMBER November 15,2001 The Redistricting Committee met on November 15,2001. Present from the Augusta Richmond County Commission were Ulmer Bridges, Bill Kuhlke, Lee Beard, Jerry Brigham, W. H. Mays, III, Commissioners and Tommy Boyles, Commissioner-Elect. Present from the Richmond County Board of Education were Helen Minchew, Marion Barnes, Y. N. Myers and Barbara Padgett. Present from the Legislative. Delegation were Henry Howard, Ben Allen and George DeLoach. Present from the Board of Elections was Lynn Bailey. Also present were Jim Wall, Attorney, and Lena Bonner, Clerk of Commission. I Mr. Kuhlke: We'll go ahead and call the meeting to order. Appreciate everybody coming this moming. We'll note that Rep. Allen and Mayor Pro Tern Mays are not here yet. I'm hoping that they will show up shortly. You were all given a copy of the minutes of our last meeting. Are there any revisions to those minutes? I might ask the Attorney if he has any comments in regard to the minutes. Mr. Wall: On page seven [inaudible] criteria [inaudible] and I think it's perhaps overstated. Those criteria are authorized by law t9 be considered, particularly insofar as protecting incumbents. Mr. Beard: Excuse me, Jim. Where are you? Mr. Kuhlke: Page seven. Mr. Wall: Page seven. Mr. Kuhlke: Under [inaudible]. I Mr. Wall: . Particularly insofar as the discussion about protecting incumbents, as well as the other things that we talked about. Really that one. That is something that is authorized to be considered but it is not a mandate that you have to protect 100% of all incumbents. That is not possible. 1 Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Are there any other comments regarding the minutes? If not, I entertain a motion that we approve the minutes with the correction noted by the Attorney. I Mr. Bridges: So moved. Mr. Beard: Second. Mr. Kuhlke: All in favor? Okay. Anyopposed? The minutes are approved. On thing that was brought up in our -- and I don't have this on the agenda, but one thing that was brought up at our last meeting was that we felt like from the minority standpoint that we should have some idea before we get into looking at a redistricting plan is to what percentage the minorities feel like would be a comfortable percentage that we work with. And we ask that y'all come back and I guess we just throw out some ideas and then we've got to understand that when the population shifts, some things are not going to be what they used to be but I think we need to probably clear the air on that to begin with. So I'll open the floor up at this point for any comments regarding that. Mr. Beard: Mr. Chairman, I guess we look at what is the [inaudible], and maybe we can get some ideas if we can understand what it is now. I Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Lynn, which tab do we go to to look at the existing districts? Ms. Bailey: You're going to find that under Tab F in your book. Mr. Kuhlke: Tab F? Ms. Bailey: Tab F. You have -- it's called a Population Summary Report. And below the main heading, you're looking for the one that says Existing Commission Districts under your Tab F. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Ms. Bailey: Now as you look at that report, you've got several columns there that will be of interest. The fourth column over is your I deviation percentage of the Districts as they exist now, which gives you a 2 I .real clear indication of why we are in fact redistricting. As you go across the page, there is the black population, the percentage of black population, and then the percentage of black voting age population in that final column. Mr. Kuhlke: Can everybody see that? If you go across District One, Lee, for instance, the black population in District One is 69%, black voting age population is 64%. Everybody have that sheet in front of them? So that's what -- and what Ms. Bailey is saying is that if you look at the third column, the percent of deviation is -15% in District One, and as a result of those deviations, as you go down, that indicates the population shift and why we're going to have to go through the process of redistricting. So this will give you a picture of all eight Districts as to what the percentage -- one technical thing that I'm not sure about right now, because we've got to be sensitive to-this is. when we get to.;;cp-oint-of submitting.som-ething to the Justice Department, is what are they going to look at? Are they going to look at total population or the voting age population? And I don't have the answer to that right now. And that's something, Jim, that we may need to see which is the most significant thing that they take a look at. I Mr. Wall: I think they are going look at both. Mr. Kuhlke: Which one weighs the most, is what I'm saying. I don't know that answer. Ms. Bailey: Mr. Chairman, I might also call the committee's attention under your Tab E on the fifth page of that PowerPoint presentation. There is a chart called Deviation Chart under your Tab E, fifth page. Mr. Kuhlke: Yes. I Ms. Bailey: Just as a point of reference, you can look to see where the deviations were. Now it does not have the -- I don't have the population figures for the 1990's line on there. It's just the deviation numbers there. And one thing that was interesting to me as you look down that list you can see District Six we're sitting at 7.11 % in 1990, which of course is above the accepted deviation range. And as I recall, that was done because Fort Gordon was a part of Commission District Six, and as we know, we have thousands of people that are counted there for the census but when it comes to registered voters, where we may have 10,000 people counted for the census, we only have 200 or 300 registered voters, so I just toss that out 3 there so the group would be aware that that was something that was done in 1990. Now that's of course not to say that you have to do it that way, but I just tossing it out for consideration, but this chart I think gives you a good feel for how the Districts were set up in 1990, as opposed to how they exist right now. I do have the population figures from 1990 that would tell you specifically what the Districts looked like in 1990, if that's of help. I don't have it with me right here but I have it in my office. Mr. Kuhlke: One question, Lynn. Just so that we might have this in the back of our mind. The law has changed from 1990 to 2000, if I'm correct. Jim, am I correct in that in that the law has changed from 1990 so that it's difficult to go back to 1990 and apply some of the rules that we did. We've got to -- right. ~.- ---------~--- ._~---~~--_._----.-_. ----.-.- -~-~~-_._----~-'--~-- ~-'------- Ms. Bailey: Right. Mr. Kuhlke: Well, is anybody else -- what we're doing, Mr. Beard, I wanted to see if there was any kind of consensus on the percentage. Mr. Beard: I think there could be a consensus and I have to defer to I the other minorities on the board here, but I think in the 60' s, somewhere around there, 65% or somewhere around there is something we can work with. Ms. Bailey: Mr. Beard, are you speaking of 65% total population as opposed to voting age population? Mr. Kuhlke: It's going to be difficult I think -- voting age -- because if you look at the chart in here, Lee, on the existing Districts, you are at 69% in District One but only 64% in voting age population. And then we're going to begin to look at this when Ms. Bailey gets started, but because of the shift it's going to be difficult I think to do that. Ms. Bailey: I think -- and maybe some of the General Assembly members may know better than I do, but I think if you go by total population, the percentage is, will be anywhere from four to six percentage points higher than it would be if you based your acceptable figure on voting age population. I 4 I Mr. Beard: Mr. Chairman, let me make a suggestion. We know we want it in the 60's and I think maybe when -- Ben has studied this a lot, and maybe give him -- he's not here yet-- Mr. Kuhlke: No. Mr. Beard -- but give him that opportunity to get him, maybe he can add something. And I'm not sure. I'm just not familiar with what [inaudible] we want it somewhere in the 60's, 65, that range. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Mr. Beard: Oh, Henry, I didn't -- I'm sorry. Mr. H. Brigham: [inaudible] I Mr. Howard: [inaudible] less. If you're anywhere in the 60's, you are almost certain that you can win if you're a fairly good candidate. We argued this in Atlanta on several occasions where of course one candidate feels he needs more [inaudible] the others. The good candidate doesn't need quite as much. So it's a variation of how much [inaudible] got to have to be in a position to win. Anywhere in the 60's. Anywhere -- I say good for even a weak candidate. That's [inaudible]. That's what we dealt with in Atlanta and still do when we're drawing line to find the people and the voter population as well, to make it hopefully good enough for the Justice Department to approve. We still aren't certain that they're going to approve what we did but we dealt with that for days and days and days to find the people to make it right, [inaudible] so the Justice Department will approve it. Mr. Kuhlke: Well, we will keep that in mind and then we'll also get Mr. Allen's idea when he comes; okay? Lynn, at this time just so that we can refresh ourselves, if you would go through the criteria one more time before we move into the maps that you have. I think probably once you review the criteria, you might direct us where to look on the maps that were done by the Reapportionment Office, the maps that were done by the Committee for Progress, showing where those are in the book and then maybe we'll go to the screen. I Ms. Bailey: All right. The criteria that the group decided on last week is under Tab D in your notebook. So just as a review, the group 5 decided that one of the biggest criteria was that the School Board and Commission District lines should mirror each other, that contiguity and I compactness of the Districts is important, and that we will avoid splitting precincts and municipalities where possible, try to preserve communities of interest, protect the incumbents, minimize voter confusion and maximize voter convenience, the deviation in the size of the Districts. We must follow -- this is actually a law -- we must follow recognizable geographical boundaries. You can't just light out into nowhere, and we can't use the old City of Augusta limit lines anymore because they don't exist. And also, making an effort to keep neighborhoods intact if possible. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Based on what Mr. Wall said, I think that we need to reemphasize protecting incumbents is not a hard and fast rule. And -----tnerewerelnree-to-that, alon-g-wtth-twooth-er-pointsthat-were. brought-up... The mirrored lines is something that we were going to attempt to do, but that's not necessarily a law. And splitting neighborhoods is not necessarily the law. So I think we need to make that clear. Okay? Ms. Bailey: Okay, you should have all received a packet of information yesterday to add to your notebooks, and I will real quickly go I over the things that were sent to you. We talked in last week's meeting about three basic plans. We had the existing District lines. We had the plan that was drawn for us by the Legislative Reapportionment Office. And we had the plan that was submitted by the Committee for Progress. If you'll recall, when we talked about those plans last week, we realized and recognized that none of the plans were perfect. The exist lines, of course, are off balance. The Reapportionment plan failed to include one of the Commission incumbents in his District, and the Citizens Committee for Progress' plan was drawn primarily as a Commission plan, not necessarily disregarding the School Board incumbents, but not including them in their formula, and so the end result of that plan was that we had two School Board incumbents drawn into Districts with two other School Board incumbents. So what we have done, and what you found in the information sent to you yesterday, was a revised Reapportionment Department plan that put that incumbent Commissioner in his District. Let me back up and say one of the other problems with the Citizens for Progress plan was that initially the figures, the deviation figures for that plan were computed on voting age population, and we since realized that of course they needed to be computed I on total population, and so once those numbers were recomputed on total population, it through the deviation for that plan out of whack. So there 6 I I I have been modifications made to the Reapportionment plan and to the Committee for Progress' plan that bring both of those plans into the proper deviation. And all that information was sent to you yesterday. The revised Reapportionment plan you're going to find under your Tab N, and the revised Committee for Progress' plan is under your Tab P. And what you're going to find there is an overall map of the county showing by color the different Commission Districts, and behind that are blow-ups of the individual Districts, and those are in black and white. Now the way you can use your notebook is you also have individual District maps of the existing Commission Districts, so you can take the existing District One, for instance, and put it side-by-side with either one of these plans to see where the changes have occurred, and the precincts are indicated on those maps as well. Also sent to you yesterday was a report by precinct. Now you already --bad a report byptecinct -showing you tlfe-total-pbpulation for-the precincts in Richmond County. The additional report that came to you yesterday gives you more detail. It breaks it down into Asian, Latino, and every other -- well, probably not every other -- but other ethnic groups to give you a better picture of each precinct. Mr. Kuhlke: What tab is that? Ms. Bailey: That's going to be under your Tab H. You should have two reports under there. One report under Tab H shows -- it shows the DTD, which is the precinct, the total population, black population, and black V AP. And then the additional report you have yesterday, that you got yesterday, is actually a landscape report, and it's got probably ten columns going across the page. And as I said, it just gives you more detail on the total population, and it also looks at the voting age population of each precinct broken down into those subcategories. Mr. Kuhlke: Any questions from anyone? So that we can keep the meeting kind of orderly, as we go through this, if you've got any questions, if you would direct those to me and then I will either call on Lynn or whoever is appropriate to call on. Lynn, would you like for us, before you do this, would you like for us to take the map, the overall map, out of our books to be able to refer to as you start [inaudible]? Ms. Bailey: That would probably be helpful, Mr. Kuhlke, to the committee members if you had the existing map there in front of you, and you're going to find those under your Tab K, and that was one of the 7 additions that came yesterday, the individual District maps. Now, just -- I know that's a lot of paperwork in that notebook, but if will look carefully at I each one of those maps, there is a title on that map to tell you what it is. So when you get your papers out of your notebook, hopefully you can find -- they can find their way back in under the right tab so you can keep yourself straight. But this is the existing plan. [inaudible] Now that again, those individual District maps, came in your packet that was delivered to you yesterday. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Are you going to start off with the -- with the Reapportionment Office overall plan? Ms. Bailey: Well, I guess at this point we need to decide how to - -- --...- proceed-:---At-this-point;--as-we--said-earlier,-we.'.ve- got-the-Reapportionment plan and we have the Citizens Committee for Progress' plan and we have the existing plan. I am glad to give a brief overview of any or all of those plans, but at some point I suppose this group will need to decide what basis they want to work from, because I don't think -- I guess we could go down and modify all the plans but I would think it would be simplest if we could come up with one plan to start with and to work on and modify. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Where, which tab is the existing plan under? I Ms. Bailey: The existing plan is under Tab K. Mr. Kuhlke: Helen? Ms. Minchew: Mr. Chairman, I would just like to make a suggestion. I know the revised Reapportionment map includes all the incumbents; is that correct? Ms. Bailey: That is correct. Ms. Minchew: And I believe that's the only one that does. I would just suggest that that might be a good starting point to compare the revised Reapportionment map with the existing map, since it does meet one of the criteria since it protects and includes all the incumbents in their present Districts, whereas the others, I believe, do not. Mr. Bridges: Is that the test plan? I 8 I Ms. Minchew: The test plan; that's right. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. I think probably -- why don't we go ahead and start with that? Ms. Bailey: Okay. I know that you can get an overall view on the computer screen, but if you will look at your Tab N, that's going to give you the individual District maps for this plan. Also, under your Tab F you received yesterday a population summary report based on the revised Reapportionment plan, so you may want to get that out of your notebook to have that with your individual District maps. And that again is entitled Reapportionment Office Test Plan. Does everybody have that? Mr. Kuhlke: No, I don't. Which tab is that under? Ms. Bailey: It's under your Tab F, and it was part of the additional information that was sent to you yesterday. I Mr. Kuhlke: Yes, I got that, but I'm trying to look for the map. Ms. Bailey: It's called Reapportionment -- okay, the map is going to be under Section N. Mr. Kuhlke: N? Ms. Bailey: Yes. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Ms. Bailey: This -- shall I go ahead, Mr. Chairman? Mr. Kuhlke: Yes, ma'am. I Ms. Bailey: Okay. This plan, as you look at it, is going to look very familiar. It's very much like the existing plan with just a few modifications to bring the numbers into the proper deviation. The biggest challenge we have currently and what -- well, there are two actually, if you're talking strictly in terms of incumbents. District One, as we all know, is a very long District, stretching from Sand Hills all the way through the inner city and 9 down to the airport. In order to get all the incumbents in that District, there really aren't a whole lot of changes that can be made there other than I looking around the boundaries of it to bring in additional population. And so that's what was done with District One. Another sort of problem area was between Districts Six and Eight, again dealing with where incumbents currently live. You've got two School Board members and two Commissioners that live in very close proximity to each other. So there wasn't a whole lot of wiggle room in those areas, either, other than again to look around the borders and find places to bring population in. Now we know District Eight was very much over-populated so we had to take some people out of District Eight. But I think as you look through there -- would you like for me to bring up each individual District to look at in that much detail on the screen? -+ ---- ------ ._-- ---------..--- --------_._--~_.._----- -- ---- Mr. Kuhlke: I think we'll do that, but I think before we do that, though, if everybody is looking at the overall map and you're looking at the population and so forth, has anybody got any comments in regards to the overall map? Mr. Bridges: Got a question, Mr. Chairman. We're doing this on the I present Commissioners, but what about the new Commission voting? Has that been taken into consideration, I mean as far as who the new Commissioners are or may be? Ms. Bailey: Yes. The new Commissioner from District Seven -- his residence is tucked way up in the top of District Seven and it would be almost impossible to draw him out of District Seven unless Columbia County annexed him. Mr. Bridges: What if there is a change in District Five? Ms. Bailey: District Five, both of the candidates in the runoff for District Five reside within the same precinct, which is tucked securely into District Five, so either way with that it's okay. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay, Lynn, if you want to you go to each individual District. I 10 I Ms. Bailey: Do any of the committee members have a specific area of concern or interest that they would like to look at or they would like an explanation for? Mr. Bridges: Lynn, just on District Eight down there where Jeff and I are at, I like the way this map is drawn in that Blythe and Hephzibah are included together. I mean Fort Gordon can go a lot of places, you know, but sometimes when your District looks like a "U" and you're coming around you are really representing two different groups, and I know that was one of the concerns I had with the Citizens Committee map that drew my District such as this, you know, really two different Districts. But I like the way that's done and really incorporating people that have -- that live similarly all in the same District. I hope we don't change that much, but if we have to, --d----u- -- - ----- --- - --.-----.-- -----.-------- -------- ..---. we o. Mr. Beard: Mr. Chairman? Mr. Kuhlke: Yes? I Mr. Beard: I guess when we get to individual Districts and we talk about District One, I do note that it seems like we have lost population in that and that kind of determines a look at the possibility of -- what other possibilities -- when we have to go and seek additional compilations there. I think we're probably one of the few Districts there that, and I hope I'm correct in that -- Lynn, you can correct me if I'm not -- but it seems to have lost population within that District and it appears that we are going to have to add to that District. Is that not correct? Ms. Bailey: Actually, Mr. Beard, Districts One and Two each were running close to 20% under ideal deviation, under the existing plan. Is that what you were addressing? Mr. Beard: Yes. Ms. Bailey: The plan -- did you find the Population Summary Report on the Reapportionment Office plan, under your Tab F? I Mr. Beard: F? Mr. Kuhlke: Right. 11 Ms. Bailey: If you would look at that report, the plan that's up on the I screen, those Districts go with that particular Population Summary Report, and that report shows District One at being less than one percent under- population, or .71 minus in deviation. Mr. Kuhlke: I think, Lynn, if you look at the existing plan, what he's looking at is the black population in 1990 was 69010. Mr. Beard: Yes. And now it's [[inaudible]. Ms. Bailey: Oh, I see. -~--- - --- .Mt-.-K:uhl.ke~---.AIT(tlhevoting--agewa~r -64%~---Lee,--this -ls---sbmething we're going to have to take a look at, because one thing is that we've got to be sensitive to is retrogression. But I think what we're going to find out is as you look at the population shift, I think we're going to have some retrogression. Look at District Six. You've got it there. And you've got it in District One. You've got it in District Four. You've got it in District Eight. But those are the kind of questions we need, Lee, and obviously what I we can do with this program that Mike's got there, I mean we can move some things around and take a look at it. Ms. Bailey: Exactly. So I'll make a note -- Mr. Kuhlke: Yeah, go ahead to District One. Ms. Bailey: -- to add the comments. And District Eight, I'll make a note of that. Any other comments from the committee members about suggested changes;, areas of concern? Mr. Kuhlke: Just looking at the map, I have some concern between District Five and District Six. I mean that looks like an awful lot of -- that looks like gerrymandering to me, but when you've got to work with populations and everything else, that's just got a splinter going up through there. District Five is cut right in the middle of it. I think I'm looking at the right one. Ms. Bailey: Which color? I 12 I I I Mr. Kuhlke: One is light blue and one is purple. Ms. Bailey: All right. What that is, that rectangular piece -- that rectangular piece that's jutting into the middle of the purple -- Mr. Kuhlke: Yes. Ms. Bailey: -- you'll notice in the top comer there where the red triangle is, that's where Mr. Colclough lives. Going on up from there, up again, that's where Mr. Cheek lives. So yes, this plan was drawn to accommodate all incumbents, and in doing so that's the way it worked out. But it does look kind of funny. - - -- - - - - Mr. KUhlke:-It does. -Tlia:t's rriyonly.commehC- -- Ms. Bailey: But that's the reason. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Any other comment? Why don't we go ahead to the individual Districts. Ms. Minchew: I do have a question, Mr. Chairman. That area you're referring to, is that not presently done like that in existing lines that we have now? It juts into -- Mr. Kuhlke: Actually no. Have we got the existing plan? Ms. Bailey: You do. You have the existing under your Tab K. And we can pull it up, too. Ms. Minchew: That's not the existing one. Ms. Bailey: No, no. If you can decipher it up on the screen there, the pink line that was just put up which shows the existing Commission Districts, and then the colored areas would show how they've been revised. You can see starting at the -- starting there where the pointer is, that's District Six, used to start there, wrapped on around, coming up to a point there. And that was where it ended. So the difference now is the District Six picked up some areas to the north that used to be in Districts Two and Five maybe. That was Eight. Yes, that was Eight. You're right. So that's 13 the difference there, but yes, District Six has always to me looked kind of like a fist sticking up there, that had that hook going up there. I Mr. Kuhlke: Any other comments? Why don't we go to the individual Districts and move on so that everybody can take a look at them and start with District One? Ms. Bailey: Okay. What we've just done, I've gotten rid of the precinct boundary lines for the purpose of this exercise and put those pink lines back up there showing you where the old Commission boundary lines were so you can see the difference between the two. Okay. This is -- where the green dot is, that's where Mr. Barnes lives. Right there. That's the Sand Hills area. That area of District One is pretty much the same with the excepfion of-wnere-tne-p-otnte-r-ts-tlrere-:-Tnos-e-few-bhrcks-:-That-is--;;,;;.-the------ - pink line above there is Henry Street, and we drop that line down to Walton Way to put some more population in that area, and that is really the only change that you see in that part of District One. Now going down south from there, that is -- that precinct was added in. That's the old precinct 9B and I think that it was in District Five and has been moved into District One. Mr. Beard: What street are you on, location wise? I Ms. Bailey: The location is these voters -- let's see. They vote over on Troupe Street but it's going to be -- that's Monte Sano Avenue right where the laser is, going up above that is the curve on Walton Way, right there around the Partridge Inn. So it's that area, I guess -- Mr. Beard: Hickman Road. Ms. Bailey: Hickman Road down toward Richmond a little bit. Mr. Beard: I just wanted to get a general idea, that's all. Ms. Bailey: That's what that is. Precinct 9B. Mr. Beard: Okay. Ms. Bailey: 9B. I 14 I Mr. J. Brigham: Lynn, also y'all took out the area north of Wheeler Road and put it in District Seven? Ms. Bailey: Yes. That area -- Mr. J. Brigham: That's the old city limits line? Ms. Bailey: That's the old city limit line and we dropped that line down to -- it's not Walton Way, it's Wheeler Road. Dropped that line from the old city limit line down to Wheeler Road. Okay. All right. Both of these areas here, that area that Travis is pointing to there is the Gilbert Manor apartments, which was formerly in District Two. And the area, the little triangle below it is an area across Wrightsboro Road, Brown Street, and arc)Un<rfu -tfiere, iY you'Ye-familiar with that; -and-tnaf area-was in-District Five, and both of those were drawn into District One. Now if you'll remember, now, we have substantial decrease in population in District One, so that's why we've added in that precinct 9B and those two precincts there. I Mr. Kuhlke: Lynn, I'm looking at the little map up here and it doesn't appear on this little map that it corresponds unless I'm looking at the wrong area. On the black map. That's the existing plan. Ms. Bailey: This is existing. The test plan is what we see up here. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Ms. Bailey: I apologize if I didn't make that clear. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Ms. Minchew: Is that 9A precinct I believe was in District Three to begin with and it's been moved in One? Ms. Bailey: You're talking about -- Ms. Minchew: Precinct 9A. I Ms. Bailey: You're talking about -- 15 Ms. Minchew: It was in District Three instead of District Five. This is 9B. I'm sorry. 9B is in District -- was in District Three. The existing I District. Ms. Bailey: Okay. That is correct. Precinct 9B was indeed moved out of Three instead of Five, so I apologize. I misspoke on that. Are there any comments, or what can I clarify about this District One? Mr. Beard: We've added in this map, you have two areas there on the northern, maybe northern part up there around Wheeler Road you've added some, and over on I guess the western side of it, Monte Sano Avenue and the Gilbert Manor area, so really that's three sections that you've kind of pulled into that? __ ___ __ _. ~__ - __." ___ .__0.'.- .___._ _+.~~.__ .-----"-'--'--' -- --- --- ---. --.----- ---- Ms. Bailey: That's correct. To the best of my recollection. They kind of all run in together after a while, but I believe that's correct. Mr. Kuhlke: Any other comments on District One? Want to go to Two? D. . MTS. Bailey: Okady. All right. Mhoving othn to .District T~o, alll riFght I IStnct wo was move more over to t e west an It was prevIous y. or instance, let's start with that precinct 2lA. Precinct 21A was previously in the Third District, so with this plan that's where District Two would begin. Now moving down there, where the pointer is, that's the area that used to vote at the Lyndon Grove Presbyterian Church, and they have been recently been combined with the voters at Minnick Park. Now when the House lines were drawn, that is a line that one of the House lines followed, so we're going to have a split there on that old precinct boundary line. So we went ahead and used that as a split for Commission as well to put more population into District Two, because again, as you'll recall, District Two was very underpopulated with the new census figures. So that's the -- that 2lA is the area around Highland Avenue. Daniel Field is just right there. Right there that's Daniel Field. So that gives you an idea of where 2lA is. It's right around the V A Hospital there. And then the area right below there that's split off, that's that Lyndon Grove area and it goes further down the hill there. And that area used to be in District Five, where it's being pointed to right now. Moving on east from there, we have precinct 9A, and precinct 9A was also brought into District Two from District Five. Precinct 19 there I also used to be in District Five, and also precinct 3, which is just below, was 16 I in District Five, so all that chunk that you see right there was taken out of mostly Five, but some part of Three, and put into District Two. Other than that, as we move across, District Two remained the same through the top part of the District. We've got the precinct that votes at Second Mt. Moriah Church, which is up at that top square. Down and over to the east from there is the Mt. Calvary voting precinct. Over to the west from there is New Hope. Johnson Center is there. Moving down one more is Mt. Vernon Church. And -- I'm drawing a blank, what is that? 47 is a new polling place. It's the Mize Memorial Church, but it's over in that Tubman Home/Gordon Highway kind of over by Southgate, around Cook's Machine Shop and around it there, and that was also in District Two. Now this area, this precinct 29, the polling place these people used to vote is the Lutheran Church there off of Lumpkin Road, but they have recently been moved to -thenBuffis- MethoQist-ChUrch--OffLtirripkin..Road~-That'-s- <:5ne--of the five-; I think, precinct splits that are caused by this particular plan. The split you see there is down Ruby Drive, which runs from Deans Bridge Road to Richmond Hill Road. So that is one split. Precinct 29 was entirely in District Two, and this map shows the bottom part of it being put into District Six and the top part remains in District Two. Moving on east from there, this is a precinct that votes at the Bernie Ward Center on Lumpkin Road. It takes in all of that -- not all of it, but a good part of the Fleming area there, and then moving south down to Apple Valley. That area was already in District Two and remained in District Two. I Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Any comments regarding District Two? Okay. Lynn, Mr. Wall has got another appointment. I think he has to leave at this point and Mr. Howard, I think you indicated you had something. Mr. Howard: [inaudible] Mr. Kuhlke: So, Jim, we'll go ahead and excuse you and thank you for coming. [Mr. Wall leaves the meeting.] Mr. Kuhlke: All right, let's go to -- I Ms. Bailey: Are we proceeding along the right here, just go over this? Mr. Kuhlke: I think so. I mean it gives everybody-- 17 Ms. Bailey: All right. Moving on to District Three, we've already I talked about -- let's start on the east side of District Three, precinct 56 there. We've already talked about that we have move 9A. 9B. I'm getting my own self confused. Hold on a minute. There we go. Okay, so we know we've moved 9B into District One, and we've already also talked about that split up there in precinct 56. And those are the people that vote at Woodlawn Church. And as I said earlier, what was done there, we moved the precinct boundary or the Commission boundary lines from Henry Street over one block to Walton Way. Now District Three, to start offwith, was in pretty good shape. It was about 7% overpopulation, so it needed to lose some, but it was in pretty good shape compared to some of the others to start off 'with. But moving west, I said precinct 56 votes at Woodlawn Church, ------- - ---and~we-ralKe-d--aoourtne-tittle--split-the-r~-Moving-we-st-from:-tlrere -is-precinct 39, and that's the people that vote at the Resource Center on Aging there at Daniel Village. That's along that Monte Sano/Glenn Avenue area. Remains unaffected by this particular plan. Moving east, or west again, that's the precinct l4A there, and l4B. Both of those precincts currently vote over on Wrightsboro Road at the Augusta State PE Complex there. Now precinct l4B was previously in District Five, and it has been moved to District Three I in this plan. Going north from l4B, you've got precinct llA which is a precinct that votes at Covenant Presbyterian Church. That was previously in District Three. You would see no change there. However, we did take a piece of precinct 52 which votes at the Fire Department on Walton Way. We took that dividing line and moved it from Wrightsboro Road to Wheeler Road to get those people into District Three. And then moving west from there, you have precinct 57 A, and those are the people that vote at the First Baptist Church on Walton Way, and that is not a change for District Three. Moving further west, you've got precinct 50, which runs from basically Walton Way Extension, Wheeler Road area, Bobby Jones, out to the county line and out to Fort Gordon. And that area was previously in District Three and remains in District Three for this plan. Mr. Kuhlke: Any comments? Okay. Let's move on, Lynn. Ms. Bailey: Okay. District Four. As we talked earlier, District Four was a challenge for a couple of reasons. We had the incumbent issue over there in District Four, but we also have the fact that that is a highly-densely populated area out there. And as much as we try to draw this plan using an I entire precinct, just move that precinct 20 where Mr. Colclough lives out of 18 I District Six and into District Four, that was 4,000 people. And so to make that one precinct change work required a lot of switching all over the entire county. As Mr. Kuhlke has said so many times, he refers to it as stepping on a water bed, and that's about what it's like. When you move something here, it affects everything right on down the line. But this is District Four in the light blue here, and the changes in District Four -- the changes in District Four are that precinct 2, which is purple -- you see it? Okay. Precinct 2, which is the area that votes at the American Legion Post at Richmond Hill and Windsor Spring, that precinct was formerly in District Four and is now drawn into District Six. That's one big change. Moving on across to the west, I suppose, that's precinct 33. District 33 was also previously in District Four, and it moved to District Five. Moving south from there -- Mr~ Bhdge-s: -Where does-it vote?-.-- Ms. Bailey: Excuse me? Mr. Bridge: Where does it vote? 33? I Ms. Bailey: Precinct 33 votes at the Meadowbrook Baptist Church on Meadowbrook Drive. Moving south from there to precinct 35, which votes at the Morgan Road Middle School, you can see that the top end of that precinct has been taken and put into District Five. The rest of it was in District Four and remains in District Four. Okay. Moving south from there, precinct 22B. That precinct votes at Jamestown Community Center. That was in District Six and is now in District Four. Precincts 55A and 55B. 55A was in District Four and remains in District Four. That little precinct 55B was in District Six and has been put into District Four. And then the only other precinct there is precinct 20, and those are the voters that vote at the Gracewood Community Center, and that's Pepperidge and some of that other area. Tobacco RoadlPeach Orchard Road area. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Just continue. I Ms. Bailey: Okay. Moving on to District Five. District Five is the pink-looking area that you see there. Changes in District Five, starting at the top. All right, that precinct l4B at the top, we talked about a minute ago, has been moved from District Five into District Three, and again those l4B voters -- that's Wrightsboro Road -- it's the boundary line between 2lB and l4B. And those voters in l4B vote at the Augusta State PE Complex, and 19 they were moved from Five to three. 2lB is the Daniel FieldJDamascus Road area. That area was in District Five and remains in District Five. Moving south from there to District Four, I mean precinct 4. Precinct 4 was previously in District Three and has moved into District Five. Continuing south from there, precinct 32B was also in District Three and has been put into District Five. Moving over west from there to precinct 32A. Precinct 32A -- and by the way, 32A and B vote at the McDuffie Woods Community Center -- as I said, 32B was previously in District Three and has been moved into Five. 32A was previously in District Four and has moved into District Five. Moving east from 32A, we come to all the 5's. SA and 5B. All those people there currently vote at the Belle Terrace Community Center. They were in District Five before and they remain in District Five. Moving on a little further west from there to precinct 34, precinct 34 was in District Five ana-iemainsmhDistTIcf -Five -ourfof-tl1:e ToiflJoffion tlfarWas cufoff- and-put into District Three. And if you'll recall, that was the House lines that went through there, it was a good place to split and put some voters back into District Three. I Mr. Kuhlke: Is that District Three or Two? Ms. Bailey: Two. I apologize. Two. Okay, moving back down I south, precinct 33. Again, that's the Meadowbrook voters. They used to be in District Four and have been moved into District Five, as well as the very top portion of precinct 35 has been moved from Four to Five. And that again is people that vote at Morgan Road Middle School. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Any questions? If anybody's got any questions, just speak up. We'll go ahead and move on. Ms. Bailey: We'll move on to District Six. Starting at the northern part of District Six, precinct 29. Precinct 29 was entirely in District Two and as you'll recall we talked about a split down Ruby Drive there which puts the southern portion of precinct 29 into District Six, leaving the northern portion of that precinct in District Two. Moving south from there, moving south from there is precinct 28 and those voters vote at the Lumpkin Road Baptist Church. That precinct was previously in District Eight and has been moved into District Six. Moving east from there, precinct 17. Those voters voted at the Fleming Baptist Church on Peach Orchard Road and I were moved from District Eight to District Six. 20 I Mr. Bridges: What number is that, Lynn? Ms. Bailey: 17. Precinct 17. That's the Fleming Baptist Church. It was moved from Eight to Six. Okay. Moving south from there, precinct 40. Precinct 40 votes at the New Horizon Church of God. They were also moved from District Eight to District Six. Moving west from there, precinct 46. Those voters vote at the Silvercrest Baptist Church. They were in District Six and they remain in Six. Down below there is precinct 51. Again, those voters were in Six and they remain in Six. Right up above that Mr. Speaker: [inaudible]? I - -Ms: Bailey:-SHvercrest BaptisCChurch: No, l'm--so-rry. -I'm sorry. 51 votes at the VFW there off of Windsor Spring Road. And then moving up from there is precinct 2, and those are the voters that vote at the American Legion at Richmond Hill and Windsor Spring, and those voters were in District Four and have been placed into District Six. Let's move south. Moving south from there, that precinct 15 A are the voters that vote at the First Baptist Church of Gracewood there at the corner of Tobacco Road and Highway 25. Those voters were in District Six and they remain in District Six. The only change at all is right at the bottom of the precinct, that little area which contains 55 voters was drawn into District Six from District Eight. Mr. Bridges: Lynn, what are the boundaries there of 15A? Is that the creek? Ms. Bailey: The bottom is the creek. Mr. Bridges: Okay. The red line is the old boundary? Ms. Bailey: Correct. Mr. Bridges: The railroad track; right? Ms. Bailey: Yes. I Mr. Bridges: Okay. Tell me this -- when you follow the railroad track from the black line up, bring the light on up and follow it, go on up, 21 continue up, right there. Any way you can put that one road into l5A or is that a separate precinct? And the reason I'm asking is you're splitting a I neighborhood there, and those people are just kind of [inaudible], and I'm wondering if there is a way you can include that into l5A. Mr. Kuhlke: You want to make a note of that, Lynn? Ms. Minchew: What neighborhood is that? What neighborhood is that? Mr. Bridges: That is -- it doesn't have a name. What's that road right there? -- - -Ms: B-ailey:-Byrd-Road. Mr. Bridges: Yeah. That wasn't where I thought I was at, though. Ms. Bailey: Byrd Road loops around on both sides of Highway 25, doesn't it? Mr. Bridges: Uh-huh [yes]. It's got two outlets there. I Ms. Bailey: If we -- now the problem -- this is a problem you would have. It's in a separate precinct and you're talking about 12 people population. I don't know how many registered voters that would mean. Maybe not any. But -- excuse me, 29 people population. What you would have, because you have to follow established geographical boundaries, we could go down that road, but you would still be splitting odd and even down the loop. Mr. Bridges: Okay. That's fine. I just thought I'd try. I know we did that on a couple of streets off of Pleasant -- I'm sorry, not Pleasant Home but this Plantation Road we did that and it caused some confusion when we did the garbage thing, so I just didn't want to be involved in that again, but if you can't do it, you can't do it. Ms. Bailey: I'm thinking that that's one of the -- well, I mean we could do it but again, if we follow that loop as a boundary line, then you I would still be splitting the road odd and even around that loop. 22 I Mr. Bridges: All right. I just thought I'd ask. Ms. Bailey: Okay. And that was it for District Six. Okay. District Seven. District Seven actually has very few changes to it. Starting at the top there in District Seven, that precinct 54, those are the voters that currently vote at Wests ide High School, and that was in District Seven and remains in District Seven. Moving west from there, we have precinct 38. Those are the voters that currently vote at the National Hills Baptist Church. That is not a change for them. Next precinct is precinct 49. Those voters vote at St. Mark United Methodist Church, and that is not a change for them. They were in District Seven and they in District Seven. Mr. Boyles: Is the lake still the boundary? I Ms. Bailey: The lake is still the boundary. Precinct 25B is those voters or part of the voters that vote at Julian Smith. You can see 25A right there next to it, they also vote at Julian Smith but they are in a different Commission District and have been for ten years. But those voters in precinct 25B were in District Seven and they remain in District Seven. Mr. J. Brigham: [inaudible] eliminated? Ms. Bailey: By the split? Mr. J. Brigham: Yes. Ms. Bailey: It could be eliminated, I suppose, by drawing it into District One. Mr. J. Brigham: No, I mean-- Ms. Bailey: Oh, oh, oh. Mr. J. Brigham: Precinct 25B would be eliminated [inaudible]? Ms. Bailey: It possibly could, Jerry, if -- I don't -- I Mr. J. Brigham: [inaudible]. 23 Ms. Bailey: Is that what it is? Okay, if that's the case, yeah, it could I definitely be eliminated. That would be very good. Mr. Speaker: [inaudible]? Mr. J. Brigham: Be better for them and cheaper for us. Ms. Bailey: Sure. Moving west from there, you have precinct lA. Precinct lA votes at Aldersgate, and what we did altering precinct lA is that is your old city limit line right there, which is also the old Commission District boundary line, so we dropped that line straight south down to Walton Way. So that's the biggest change that you see there. Moving west, that's precinct 52, which are the voters that vote at the fITe station, and we ta:lKecr-ea,tlieYlhat -we mcrvea-tnaf ooftornli6lifidaryofprecincr-52-from - Walton Way up to Wheeler Road. And even though that's been split on this map, we could -- those voters in that broken-off section of 52 could be incorporated in with the voters in llA there without a problem. Moving west from there, precinct 53, those are the voters that vote at the Warren Road Rec Center, and that is not a change for them. They were in Seven and they remain in Seven. Mr. J. Brigham: Lynn, the only problem I see with that is the lack of [inaudible]. I don't see a problem right now but in the long run you're going to create some of the same problems you had in other high-density Districts and ten years from now there's going to be no way that [inaudible] modifications. I Ms. Minchew: Excuse me, Lynn. I couldn't hear what -- Jerry, I couldn't hear what you were saying, I'm saying. Mr. J. Brigham: Helen, the only thing I see is wrong with that District is that there is no vacant land for future growth. There's -- the compactness of it's there. It's just that given where it is, and it's land-locked. I think ten years from now when somebody else is sitting up here doing these lines and is going to be making changes in that District like you're experiencing in other Districts, because of the compactness of the District -- if there was some growth room in there, some vacant land, I would be more pleased. But I understand the necessity of making things work. Mr. Speaker: [inaudible] growth. I 24 I Mr. J. Brigham: How many people, if you would, straight on out Wheeler Road to say the Columbia County line that you're talking about? Ms. Bailey: If we went over into that precinct 57 A? Mr. J. Brigham: If you are coming west. If you went straight to where the black line is, where Wheeler Road is, if you went straight on out to the Columbia County line, straight out Wheeler Road, how many people are you talking about? That line right that. That line to the county line. Mr. Bridges: Is that the part that votes at Sue Reynolds? -- - Ms-:- Bailey: - N6.- Those people-actUally-vote-at -Fitsf Baptist -ChUrch. If y'all can read those numbers, y'all have got better eyes than me. I'm guessing that's probably 700 people. Mr. J. Brigham: Okay. I guess that' [inaudible]. I Ms. Bailey: Well, you know, I guess it's something this group could consider if they wanted to, but just knowing if we put 700 people in we would probably have to shift some out on another edge. Mr. Kuhlke: Lynn, you might remind them that if we go through this and start looking at it and that we then determine that we'd like to stay at 5% deviation and so what the plan that Lynn has provided us here is that you've got the room to do some changing, but every time you make a change you kind of go all over the world. So we might just keep that in mind. Ms. Bailey: Shall I keep on? Mr. Kuhlke: Go ahead. I Ms. Bailey: Okay, we'll move on to District Eight. Okay. One of the biggest changes that you see in District Eight is all that area where Travis is pointing to right there, that's precinct 28, precinct 17, and precinct 40. Those all were previously in District Eight and that's going from the Lumpkin Road/Deans Bridge Road area at the top, right on down Lumpkin Road, including the Fleming area, Peach Orchard, Lumpkin Road area, and then going south. That's Windsor Spring Road there. Those voters vote at 25 the corner of Louisville Road and Windsor Spring Road, if that gives you an idea of the area you're talking about. All that was taken out of Eight and put I into Six. Now moving south from there, you've got precinct 41. And precinct 41 votes at the New Southside Baptist Church, which is on Highway 25 just north, I guess, of Tobacco Road. That's quite a large precinct. It goes way out to some rural areas. But that area was already in District Eight and stays in District Eight. The next precinct down from there is precinct 43. Mr. Bridges: Lynn, got a question on 41. Tobacco Road -- is that any kind of dividing line? Is that anything you could use as a dividing line if you needed to make some changes? Ms-:Bailey:- W ell~-we- could.----- Mr. Bridges: I didn't know how the actual precinct lines went. Ms. Bailey: You're talking about taking that top boundary line, which I think is a creek, and moving it down to Tobacco Road? Mr. Bridges: Yes. And then take 15A and move -- I mean I'm just I thinking of possible changes down the road or that we might want to look at in this session. Ms. Bailey: Okay. Moving south from there you have precinct 43, and those are the people that vote at Pine Hill Baptist Church out on Old Waynesboro Road. Those voters were in District Eight and remain in District Eight. Moving down to the southeast, you've got precinct 16 and that's kind of the McBean area. Those voters vote at the First Corinth Church out on Highway 56. You can see it's a big sprawling precinct. Not a whole lot of population out there, but a lot of land. Moving west, precinct 23. And those are the people that vote at the Jesse Carroll Community Center in Hephzibah. That area is currently in District Eight and remains in District Eight. Moving further west, precinct 8 there, those voters are the voters that vote -- that's the city of Blythe, and some of the rural area out there. They vote actually in the city of Blythe at their community center. That area was moved from District Six into District Eight. Also, going I guess north from there, those big blocks you see one on top of the other, that's Fort Gordon, and all of that area was in District Six and has been I moved to District Eight. The only part of Fort Gordon that remained outside 26 I of District Eight is way up at the top there, and that little piece of Fort Gordon was drawn into District Four, and the other little -- the blue piece -- and then that kind of tan-looking area -- that was already, that was in District Six and has been put into District Three. But what we have out there is very little population around those areas of Fort Gordon. Most of the population is in the area, in terms of registered voters anyway, is in the area where that little hand is right there in that kind of block right around in there on Fort Gordon, and that is District Eight. Mr. Kuhlke: Thank you, Lynn. Has anybody got any comments with regard to the map that we've gone over? Ben, we've talked a little bit before you got here about what would be considered an ideal population in the minority Districts, and Mr. Beard had some comments and Mr. Howard had some coiiimerih:'-,- and - they-l56llf-m<iicated-s-61heWhetem the 60%-65%-range. If we do with this map, and probably any map that we come up with we're probably going to have something that appears to be retrogression, because of population shifts, and on this map is where we were before, we have a sign of that. But did you want to make any comment in regards to that? I Mr. Allen: I guess a safe District, whether or not you're talking about a safe white District or a safe black District, a 65% voting age population would be acceptable. I mean you have some extremes on both ends. If you take a look at District Seven, you take a look at Eight, those are on the extreme end in terms of safe white Districts, and basically 65% of the voting age population of one race, I would consider that a safe District. I mean you can drop below those numbers, but it just depends upon what subdivisions are being considered, and also take a look at trends. in the area. But 65% is a rule of thumb. But you can drop below that particular number. Mr. J. Brigham: Lynn, [inaudible]? Ms. Bailey: Yes. Mr. J. Brigham: See what that does to [inaudible]. I Ms. Bailey: Okay. Now what I was asked to do was to put the new House District lines up here. Now I left the bold black lines up there, because those are the precinct boundary lines. And I will say, and I appreciate it so much, that the General Assembly when they drew these lines, they really made a huge effort to stick to the precinct boundary lines 27 that they made their changes. They did a good job in Richmond County. There are a couple of exceptions in the House, Senate and Congressional I plan, but for the most part they really stuck to them. One area that you see is that dividing line in precinct 34. And as I mentioned before, that is a new precinct change. And the reason the General Assembly even had that in the precinct boundaries is because it was such a new change for us in Richmond County that it didn't get to the Census Bureau in time to be implemented as a precinct boundary. They didn't know to not use that line. But you know, that's not a huge problem. The other split you see there is in District Four, and I am thinking that's Bobby Jones. Does that look like Bobby Jones? Yes. That's Bobby Jones. And they've carried that line straight on down Bobby Jones and I think what we can do in that instance is the precinct boundary there at the top of 32B right there, we can just get rid of that line -and--inc-orporate--thar-bluc-of-people--in--with-those-3-2B-people-without creating actually an additional split. So that is not a big concern. But we do have a little bit of a situation with the Senate plan. Would you all like to see all of these? Mr. J. Brigham: Yes. I'd like to see the House plan, too. Ms. Bailey: This is House now. I could -- why don't we lift up the I precinct lines so they can get a good look at the House? All right. These are the House lines. The green lines are the House lines. Mr. Kuhlke: Excuse me just a minute, Lynn. Mr. J. Brigham: [inaudible] lost one House seat [inaudible] areas going west and I believe northeast, I believe it was, [inaudible] in order to [inaudible] our previous Districts. Ms. Bailey: It was a challenge for y' all, I'm sure. But even with that, you still managed to stick with the precinct boundary lines for the most part, which was great. Mr. J. Brigham: Yeah. Ms. Bailey: What's up there now are the new House lines. I don't know how much you can tell from that. They're not labeled with numbers, but if you follow the green lines around it gives you an idea of where the I different Districts are and how they're split. But with the exception of those 28 I areas that we talked about a minute ago, it does not split any of our precincts. Mr. Allen: Can you do the same thing with the Senate plan? Mr. Bridges: Go south there first. I Ms. Bailey: Okay. This is the south end of the county, with the House lines there. Again, I believe, if I recall, we had one other precinct split right down in that area, but it wasn't anything that is going to cause us a problem. You can see right there, that Senate line curves around through 55A, but basically what that did is put that neighborhood back together that was split. So we can do the same thing by lifting up that precinct boundary line~therearid-just-makiiiiftliat -entire -neighooflioocf one- precmct. . dTliaf15lue line that you see there is actually the Senate line, and the green line which looks like it follows a creek is a House line. But again, you see they follow the precinct lines exactly. And what you have there, just as a point of reference, that precinct 23 is the Hephzibah precinct and over to the left of that is the Blythe precinct, to the north is Fort Gordon. We'll take a look at the Senate lines now. Let's take off the precincts and pan north. And let's take off the House lines. This is your Senate line and for the most part the Senate line also follows precinct boundaries. We've got a couple of problem areas. Put those precinct lines back down. You can see right there in the Belle Terrace area a couple of challenges there. But I think that we can rectify those by just moving precinct boundary lines around that aren't pertinent anymore or wouldn't be. That was the main challenge. It seems like maybe up on the northern end there were some other -- that is actually just a bona fide split precinct right there. Mr. Speaker: [inaudible]? I Ms. Bailey: That's the area, the Walton Way Extension area. Now what we can do, that little piece that's sticking up top, it's easy enough to move the precinct boundary lines up to that area to correct that. But as far as the rest of the split that run down through there, we would probably -- we could take those voters and either combine them with the voters in precinct 39 or combine them with their neighbors across the street there at Langford, which is already a split precinct over there, so we'd have to figure out something to do with that. But the thing that's good to know about these types of situations is if there are changes that need to be made to this plan, 29 it's good to have these Senate and House and Congressional lines in here so I that if we do need to split a precinct we can try to maintain the same split that already exists with the House, Senate and Congressional. Mr. Speaker: [inaudible] Harrisburg [inaudible]? Ms. Bailey: It looks like for the most part the Senate plan follows precinct boundary lines. I can see a couple of little areas, but those are situations that could be easily corrected. Are there any other areas that you want to see in regards to the Senate line? Mr. Speaker: What about the Congressional lines? - m Ms. Bailey:.' OKay. AU-nghC--The red-lines- tharyou--see. there are the - new Congressional District lines. If you look at the -- that little loop at the top, and if we lay the precinct boundary back on there, you can see we've got a couple of splits caused there. But I actually think we can take that precinct boundary line that's hooking up right there and eliminate .it and make that whole area a precinct if we needed to. And that's the -- that little hook area that's going up there, that's the Berckmans Road/StanleylHeath I Drive area. And I think that that's maybe the only spot that I could see that I remember -- Mr. Bridges: Further south, Lynn, was that a [inaudible]? Was I looking at [inaudible]? Ms. Bailey: You see right there -- Mr. Bridges: Can you make the map bigger? I mean the other way. Ms. Bailey: You want to go south? Mr. Bridges: Yeah. Ms. Bailey: Okay. Mr. Bridges: Just get a map of Richmond County up there. Ms. Bailey: Okay. The whole-- I 30 I Mr. Bridges: With the Congressional lines. All right, where is Fort Gordon? Ms. Bailey: Fort Gordon is right there. Mr. Bridges: I mean what-- Ms. Bailey: Fort Gordon is in whatever Congressional District Hephzibah is. And what you see, that bottom boundary is actually the county line. That's is not a Congressional boundary. Mr. Bridges: Oh, okay. -Ms~Bairey: -That Is-a Tittle aecepfive. - - __h__ ------ Mr. Bridges: The line coming back [inaudible] there? I Ms. Bailey: That is definitely a line. That is a Congressional boundary line. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Anybody else got any questions? Ms. Bailey, I want to thank you and Mike and the staff for getting this up for us. What I'd like to suggest at this point is that we give ourselves some time to digest what she's presented to us today. I'd like to move this thing along. I'd like for us to try to get back together next week so that we can project on the screen any changes anybody would like to take a look at. I know that Thanksgiving is next week. But I would like to try to call a meeting for next Wednesday morning if possible so that we can go ahead and move ahead with this plan. I think since we've seen the Reapportionment map, I think we might want to take a look, just a quick look, at the Committee for Progress map next week and let Ms. Bailey show you where the problems are in that map. Just to give you some contrast to what we had working with. And so is 8: 15 okay with everybody? Next Wednesday moming? Lena, is that all right with you? Ms. Bonner: Yes, sir. I Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. 31 Ms. Bailey: Before we adjourn, can I review my notes with the group? I've taken a few notes on modifications that people would like to see I _ made to this plan. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Ms. Bailey: I have a note that you'd like to see the total black population a little higher in District One. I have a note -- Mr. Kuhlke: I think in conjunction with that we also heard you'd like to see the population around 65%. So I think that would be consistent. Ms. Bailey: I have a note that there is some concern about the part of District- Four- that-juts-into-Bistrict-Six-and-Eight;-which-is--that-Pepperidge area. I don't know what we can do about that, keeping the incumbent in their own District, so we may need to make a choice with that. I also have a note that you'd like to see possibly taking that District Seven line straight out Wheeler Road to the county line to allow for more growth in District Seven. And a note that we could possibly use Tobacco Road as a northern boundary line for precinct 41 instead of the creek. Mr. Bridges: Same for precinct 15. Precinct 15 [inaudible]. I Ms. Bailey: Now I can make these changes and bring them back to you, or we can make the changes on the spot and look at them. So whatever's your pleasure. Mr. Kuhlke: It might be interesting to see making these changes on the screen to give you some idea of what, when you make a change, what happens on the other end. How would you like to handle that? Would you like those changes made and sent out to you prior to the meeting? Ben? Mr. Allen: I would prefer that you go ahead and make them and send them out so we can look at them before the meeting. Ms. Bailey: You mean make them hear and now or make them -- Mr. Kuhlke: Between now and -- Ms. Bailey: --like this afternoon and get them out to you? I 32 I I I Mr. Allen: Yes, yes, yes. This afternoon. Just get them out. Mr. Allen: One point of clarification. If one member of this committee would like to submit a plan to be put into the computer for us to consider, I assume we can do that? Mr. Speaker: [inaudible]. Ms. Bailey: Yes. Now the comment was that if there were other plans that needed to be submitted -- the only -- I think there are a couple of different ways we can do it. If you are working with the Legislative Reapportionment Office, we can transfer files electronically down here from - - -.tlieir computer ~---Of--you -can -I-guess- cbuld- make-aIr -appointment with our office and we'll be glad to sit down with you and do what we can to help come up with a plan. Mr. Kuhlke: Any other comments or thoughts? Ms. Padgett: Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask that our Board Attorney be notified of these meetings. Mr. Kuhlke: Good idea. Good idea. Lena, if you could add Pete Fletcher. Helen, did you-- Ms. Minchew: Yes, I just would like to request if there were any neighborhoods that might be split in this test plan that we just went through, if those could be pointed out. Ms. Bailey: I will identify those to the best of my ability. Ms. Minchew: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Mays: Mr. Chairman? Mr. Kuhlke: Yes, sir, Mr. Mays? Mr. Mays: I know we talked about percentages on the Districts for a few moments of trying to work toward that. But when we looked one time at the so-called idea size and the variance difference in there, did we -- 33 inasmuch as we're trying to I think get higher percentages in some Districts, I did we have any type of consensus on the fact that you might, you know, wouldn't get a zero situation in every case, was there a max out number, Lynn, that gets us into say a real throwing off period? Cause I know we were up somewhere like in that 1200 box one time and then I know you really want to get it down, you know, as close as you can to zero. But I think that's one thing we might want to consider, too, as to how high in real numbers. Sometimes when we say percentages we say five percent, but maybe if we are thinking in the meantime, you know, over the weekend, a point of coming back as to where we may want that number to be or where we may need for it to stay within certain numbers. Ms. Bailey: The ideal District population, if all the Districts were completely .equal, is-2'4-~972~-- So -ifwesta)nirOl1tfa that number --- is-tha:rwhat you're talking about? Mr. Mays: Yes. I got that. But I'm saying in order to try and work some of these percentages there is a possibility that every one is not going to be the exact same size, but we didn't want to get into a bad area from the very start, where you've got a variance in there that just won't work. I Ms. Bailey: Variance in total population? Mr. Mays: Well, to a point I guess it would be in total, because we started off, you know, with some of them needing 3,000 or 4,000. [inaudible] I don't know if Don brought it up at the last meeting or not, but we were talking about some that got us down in 300 figures or several hundred or maybe was there a cutoff point in there. That's I guess what I'm looking at in terms of that number. Mr. Kuhlke: I think if you're going to go with the total population and I think what we agreed on last week was the 5% deviation one way or the other. So you know you're looking at 25, you're looking at 1200, 1250 people, something like that, one way or the other. Isn't that right, Lynn? Ms. Bailey: Yes. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Anything else? If not, thank everybody for coming, and Ms. Bonner will be in touch with you about our next meeting. I Lp.na J. ~onn.p.r ClArk of Cnmmi~Rtnn. 34