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HomeMy WebLinkAbout11-09-2001 Meeting I REDISTRlCTING COlVTh1ITTEE l\1EETING COlVTh1ISSION CHAMBER November 9, 2001 The Redistricting Committee met on November 9,2001. Present from the Augusta Richmond County Commission were Ulmer Bridges, Bill Kuhlke, Lee Beard, and Willie Mays. Present from the Richmond County Board of Education were Y.N. Myers, Jr., Barbara Padgett, Helen Minchew, Johnny Hatney. Present from the Legislative Delegation were Don Cheeks, Susan J. Burmeister, Henry L. Howard, George Deloach, Ben Allen, and Jack Connell. Present from the Board of Elections was Lynn Bailey. Also present were Rhonda Jones from the Augusta Focus and Nita Coleman and Ashley Griggs from The Augusta Chronicle. Call Meeting to Order I Mr. Kuhlke: Call the meeting to order of the Redistricting Committee of the Augusta Richmond County Commission and the Board of Education and our Legislative members that are here. I appreciate everybody showing up. We are going to try to keep this orderly. Ms. Bailey has done a lot of work on this over the last couple of weeks. So what I'd like to do -- you have your agenda there -- I'd like to call on Lynn Bailey to begin the meeting. She's going to probably be handling most of this meeting. So, Lynn, I turn it over to you now. Introduction to Redistricting I Ms. Bailey: Thank you, Mr. Kuhlke. I want to make sure that those representatives from the Commission and the School Board -- I think I've gotten with each of you this morning and given you some substitute inserts in your notebook. Did I get with everybody? Okay, we should all be on the same page. Let me start off by saying that I do not profess in any way to be an expert on redistricting, but I have done my best to provide information to this group to help you along your way. The information contained in this booklet contains things from definition of terms that we'll take about to reports that I hope you will find useful as we set about this. The frrst thing I'd like to do is a little PowerPoint presentation about redistricting and go 1 over a few of the definitions. And if you have a problem seeing the screen, in your Section E in your book you have a copy of this PowerPoint I presentation. If it's easier for you to go along with that, feel free to do that. Okay, we're going to start off just talking about a few definitions and things that are important to know when redistricting. The frrst term most of you are familiar with is the equal protection clause under the Constitution, the U.S. Constitution, that prohibits drawing election districts so as to dilute minority voting strength. The next definition that you need to know about is the one person! one vote rule, and basically that provision provides that the districts need to be similar in size, so that one person's vote doesn't carry more weight than another person's vote. The next term on your list is retrogression, and retrogression simply means that after the lines are drawn, you can't draw them in such a way that minority language groups or -meIrtbers- of a -racial m-monty-are -worS-e- off -after-you -re-draw-the--lines-than they were before the lines were drawn. The next term is called packing. Packing is the method by which minority populations are basically crammed into one district so as to dilute their strength, as opposed to if they were spread out into more districts. The opposite of that would be cracking, and that would be to divide minority population in such a way as to minimize their voting strength. The next term, more of a technical term, is the word I contiguous. And I'm sure most of you know what that means, but what that means is that when you draw these districts, the land encompassed in these districts have to touch some part of the rest of the district. It can't be separate from the main body of the district. Are there any questions about those defmitions? I know -- I look around the room, I see the Legislative Delegation sitting up here, I know that y' all are much more involved in redistricting than I am. Are there terms that we perhaps need to add or modify for the be~er of the committee? Mr. Kuhlke: Let me ask you this, Lynn. Under Tab C, you went 7 and 8, where you have deviations. You want to -- I don't see -- are you getting ready to get to that? Ms. Bailey: The balance of the terms on your definition sheet, I was going to go over when we got to the report, but I'm glad to do it now. You want me to proceed on? Mr. Kuhlke: Yes, why don't you just go ahead and do that? I 2 I Ms. Bailey: Okay. All right. Now -- yes? Okay. Moving along with your definitions, another word that you are familiar with, I'm sure, is deviation. And what deviation means is the difference between the ideal district size and the district that has actually been drawn. To meet the one man!one vote rule basically, I think the general rule of thumb is a five percent plus or minus on your deviation. So we'll have to keep that in mind. In looking through the reports, you've seen the word V AP in a heading on a column. That just means voting age population. All those people according to the 2000 census that were 18 years of age or older at the time the census was taken. Another term that you'll see a lot is ideal district population, and that figure is derived from taking the total population, dividing it by eight, which is the number of single member districts we have, and that ideal population is what we should strive toward for our district size, as we go through-the-redistricting plan-. - Now-I-think,-Mr:--Kuhlke; at-this point I'll wait on the rest of the definitions until we get into the report, if that's okay. Mr. Kuhlke: I think Rep. Connell had a question. I Mr. Connell: I really think you have partially answered my question on deviation. At the State level, we have five percent, both plus or minus. Congressional, we try to get zero. But whether or not the councilor Commission or the Board of Education, we have that five percent deviation [inaudible]. Ms. Bailey: I think what I'm saying is I don't know that there's anything written in stone that says that that's what you adhere to, but in past redistricting, and you correct me if I'm wrong, but in past redistricting with the Commission lines we have tried to adhere to the plus or minus five percent to the extent that we could. Did you want to put the criteria next? Mr. Kuhlke: Yes, that would be fme. Set Criteria I Ms. Bailey: In your notebook, you probably have seen there is a publication by the Georgia Municipal Association, and in that publication they specify criteria that local governing authorities should adhere to when they redistrict. I have taken almost verbatim out of that book and put a list of the criteria that's suggested that you adhere to up on the screen. Mr. Kuhlke, do you want me to go over it? 3 Mr. Kuhlke: Uh-huh [yes]. I Ms. Bailey: As we talked about before, contiguity and compactness in making sure your districts are as close together as you can get them and not spread out among the county; to avoid splitting precincts to the extent that it's possible; and to avoid splitting municipalities to the extent that it's possible; preserving communities of interest, trying to keep from splitting neighborhoods, I suppose, as you go through; protecting the incumbent; to minimize voter confusion; and the maximize voter convenience. Deviation, as we talked about a minute ago, is also something that must be looked at. And also as we go through drawing these lines, recognizing that the district lines have to be on a recognizable geographical boundary. We can't light -- -- - -- out- through -nowhere-drawing-a-line-=--It'-s--got-tonbe-on-a---street~-a- road,- a-- creek, a power line. I think there are probably other boundaries that you can follow, but it has to be a recognizable geographical boundary. Mr. Bridges: Lynn, what about dividing neighborhoods up? I know that's a concern of some of the Commissioners. Do we attempt not to divide an established neighborhood when doing this, or is that -- Ms. Bailey: I think that that's a determination that this committee would decide how they wanted to proceed. There is nothing in the law that says that you can't do that. I Mr. Kuhlke: Has anybody got any comments that they would like to make in regards to the criteria? Because I think a prerequisite of getting into looking at a map and so forth, we need to be consistent and we really need to consider adopting the criteria that we're going to work by. So if anybody's got any additional comments or suggestions that they may want to put in there, we can listen to those now. Mr. Connell: Let me ask a question of Ms. Bailey and others, if they have better memory than I have. The last two or three times that we've been through this, it seems to me that the Delegation received lines that were drawn by the local council and the Board of Education and that when we received those during the session -- which we will I guess this time, sometime in January -- we accepted those lines and put them into a bill as I you have sent them to us. And I just wonder, Ms. Bailey, if that's your memory in the past. Of course at that time, the last -~ eight years ago or ten 4 I years ago -- we had a council by itself, and then the council commission, and the Commission itself was county-wide but of course included the City at that time. The Board of Education was completely separate. And when you say minimize voter confusion, when you have council, when you have Commission, which are the same now as far as districting is concerned, and then you have the Board of Education, which would have its own lines, and to me that would cause a lot of confusion. If you're going to have vote maybe across the street from someone or a particular candidate when you have the Board of Education lines slightly different from those of the council-Commission, and I'd like any recommendation that you have on both of those questions. I Ms. Bailey: I don't recall the specific logistics of how the plans were iIIlplementeo ill -Hie- past. Sd I really. don't have - any anSwer for you whether the plan came to you and the Delegation straight from the Commission or whether the Delegation was instrumental in drawing those plans. I really don't know. But certainly as far as keeping the Commission and the School Board boundaries following the same set of lines, as it's been for years in Richmond County, I would think it would be of great interest to this group and possibly you may want to add it to the criteria as you go forward with this. Mr. Kuhlke: Mr. Beard? Mr. Beard: Mr. Chairman, I kind of view this frrst meeting here as a kind of organizational meeting, and maybe setting parameters, and seeing where we are going. I also see the first criteria, to me that we should try to disseminate here, is are we going to have mirror lines, because in my thinking that if we are not going to have mirror lines this is kind of moot as far as the Board is concerned, because I understand that the Delegation will draw the Board's lines, and the Commission would do our own. So I think that's one of the things we ought to determine as the frrst thing. Are we going to mirror lines or are we going to go separate ways. Mr. Kuhlke: Is that something that you'd like to add to the criteria? Mr. Beard: I think that that's the first thing that should be determined. I Mr. Kuhlke: Let's add that to the criteria. Mr. Mays? 5 Mr. Mays: Mr. Beard is a little older than I am, so I let him go frrst, Mr. Chairman. But I guess to answer the speaker's question, so that we're a little clearer on it, I'm light years older than Lynn, so she wouldn't remember it. She wasn't the Director at that time. But you're correct in terms of the old City being a separate municipality when those ward were adjusted, which has been even over a decade ago, when they were adjusted in the old government inside the old City lines. However, the local government, as far as the County Commission is concerned, basically particularly since we were consolidated, really did not send any lines to the Legislative Delegation. The Delegation, when we consolidated, we followed the lines that were already in effect that had been adopted by the Board of Education. And that's how. the current ones came in. No lines were really drawn at all. When you all drew the bill up, which you didn't have-to-draw-lines- because- they-were- in place-for-the - Board,--and-you-aU had- the legal right to draw the Board, and that's why, you know, I think we are all here today because we've kind of been insisting on wanting you all to get through your dust settling in Atlanta, drawing whatever lines you all drew for Congress and for yourselves, and then to get everybody to the table here now because quite frankly, it is, at least in my opinion, a new process period that we're establishing. And I think that's where we need to get off on the ground today in terms of what we do. But I think if we are going to deal with the mirroring aspect of where they are, and you are correct in terms of avoiding the confusion. If you've got the legal right to say that was why we did not want to as a Commission, and we voted twice on this particular issue not to move ahead until we could get you all to the table, because you're correct, it did not make sense for us to send you something and then you were going to draw the lines for the Board legally and then we end up with two different sets of lines, so there is a legal responsibility that had to be answered, because you have that legal responsibility, and until the State law is changed, then that could not be undone. So that's why we're here at this point today, and whatever we add on to this I think it's proper, Mr. Chairman, that we do so, that we do that in agreement what we may add to the criteria. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Anybody else? I I Ms. Minchew: Mr. Chairman, I would like to pursue the issue of not separating neighborhoods. I would like for that to be added to the criteria. I Keeping neighborhoods intact. 6 I Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Anything else? Let me ask you this question. What Ms. Minchew is asking, is that -- would that become impossible at some point? Ms. Bailey: Very possibly it could be impossible. It just depends. When you're talking about splitting the county into eight areas, I would imagine that there will be instances where neighborhoods may have to be split. We have some very condensed residential areas in the county, as you all know. If you wanted to set your criteria so as to avoid splitting neighborhoods when it's possible, I think that would be realistic, but I'm not sure that it would be possible to completely avoid splitting neighborhoods in every instance. . - -- Mr. Kuhlke:- Let me ask Helei1~ - Helen, if we-add that to the criteria; if we insert the word "if possible" -- Ms. Minchew: That's fine. Mr. Kuhlke: That would be okay? I Ms. Minchew: That's fine. Mr. Kuhlke: I think I need to let everybody know that the criteria that Ms. Bailey has presented to us is legal criteria that we have got to follow. The things that we are adding here are things that we will try to accommodate. And I understand that the Legislative Delegation would like to see mirrored lines as far as Commission and the Board of Education, and I think that's something that we really should work to see if we can make happen. But everything that's in your book is dictated by law that we have to follow. Okay. Lynn, you want to move on? Anybody got anything else they want to add to the criteria? Mr. Mays: Yes. Mr. Kuhlke: Mr. Mays? I Mr. Mays: It's along Ms. Minchew's lines. I think you've got it covered in there in terms of protecting the neighborhoods. But I think one example that might fall under that "if that's possible" category is that even if they are not neighborhoods, particularly as you get to a lot of suburban 7 areas, particularly in the old county, you have some large subdivisions that have been used to having the same people represent them from the same numbered category. For instance, on my side in Nine where you've got Pepperidge that's in there, for instance, and you move into an 1800-member situation of where you end up with that type of splitting, so it may not be where you've got say particular whole neighborhoods per se, but at least I think if you get into the point of the actual subdivision itself of trying to at least keep those intact, so that you're not, when it gets to say the 2100 block, that it falls totally different. And I think that may be one area you can work with that one, inasmuch as you may not be able to keep the whole neighborhood intact. I Explanation of Population Shifts Mr. Kuhlke: Ms. Bailey, you want to go ahead and continue on? Ms. Bailey: Sure. The next slide -- what I wanted to show is actually why we're redisnicting. Mr. Kuhlke: What tab was that under? Ms. Bailey: That's a good question. I Mr. Allen: Tab E. Ms. Bailey: E. Mr. Kuhlke: E? Ms. Bailey: Yes. That's right. It's under Tab E and it's a part of the PowerPoint presentation. Mr. Allen: It's the fifth page. Ms. Bailey: Thank you. Mr. Allen: Fifth page of Tab E. Ms. Bailey: What that chart will show you is actually why we're I having to redistrict. If you'll look at that numbers there, I've given you the 8 I numbers from the 1990 Census, under deviation of the districts as they were drawn, I guess, and implemented for the 1992 elections. Moving on for that, it shows the 2000 Census figures and how the deviations have changed over the past ten years. Looking down the 2000 Census deviation column, you can see that we have several districts. I'm looking at One, Two and Five in particular that are substantially under-populated, and then looking at Eight and Six that are substantially over-populated. And so that just gives you a picture at the task ahead of you, the areas that need to be -- areas of concentration that need correction. Explanation of Data Ms. Bailey: Okay, the next thing I wanted to talk to you about, I wanted to give you a.littlebitof an-explanation about the various-reports that are in your book and to see if anybody has any questions about those reports. If you'll turn over to your Tab F, at the bottom at that -- yes, sir? Mr. Allen: Even before you start talking about reports, do you have maps so that we can sort of correlate the report with a map? I Ms. Bailey: You have a map in your book of the existing Commission District lines, and that is under your Section K. I'm not sure if that is going to provide enough detail for you. I do have -- we do have maps loaded into the computer that we can put up on the screen to show detail. But I thought I would hit some of these definitions first, if that's okay. Mr. Allen: Okay. I guess when you -- I thought you were getting ready to talk about these -- Tab F, talk about the percentages, numbers, those kind of things. And I just wanted to see a map as you were talking about it. Ms. Bailey: Okay. Mr. Allen: At least it makes more sense to me when I look at a map than just look at raw numbers. Ms. Bailey: Okay. Does that map in your Section K suffice? I Mr. Allen: I can't see. It's too small for me. Ms. Bailey: It is. It's tiny, isn't it? 9 Mr. Kuhlke: Excuse me just a minute. Ben, what are you looking for on the map? I Mr. Allen: I'm not looking for anything. I just want to be able to follow what she's talking about. Ms. Bailey: Okay. Mr. Allen: I can't follow. You know, if I'm looking at raw numbers, raw numbers District One doesn't mean anything to me in terms of raw numbers. . -Ms~- Bailey: Okay~.--- ____un_ Mr. Kuhlke: If you take that map out, Ben. Mr. Allen: I can't see it. Mr. Kuhlke: Oh, you can't see it. Mr. Allen: It's too little. I Mr. Kuhlke: Oh, it's too little. Ms. Bailey: How about let's -- we'll minimize the PowerPoint and we can go from your definitions that are printed out or you can follow along on your copy of your PowerPoint and we can pop the map up there. Mr. Kuhlke: That's fme. Ms. Bailey: Okay. Mr. Kuhlke: Go ahead and put it up there. Ms. Bailey: All right. Can everybody see that okay? Mr. Kuhlke: I can't see that. Ms. Bailey: For I guess discussion purposes -- I . 10 I Mr. Kuhlke: Have you got one of those lights that shine up there? Ms. Bailey: Those little laser things? Mr. Kuhlke: Have we got a stick that we can show somebody where the Districts are? I think that's what Ben is asking is, is where are the Districts? Mr. AlIen: Do we have some large maps that maybe everybody can look at as you're talking? At least it would make more sense to me. Maybe no one else needs maps to look at. I need to see it. Ms. Bailey: Okay. Mr. Allen: Otherwise, the numbers doesn't mean anything to me. I am one of these kids that, you know, have to have a picture in front of me. Ms. Bailey: We have a map that we posted on election night that might help. I Mr. Kuhlke: Do we need an easel? Do we have an easel? Is this on a hard board? Ms. Bailey: It's not on a hard board. It's just a paper map. About a 4x4 foot map. Mr. Kuhlke: Can everybody else read the map under Tab K? Ms. Bailey: How about that? Does that help? What I can do as far as identifying the Districts, we can refer to them by color, if that helps position them on the map. Mr. Kuhlke: Can you see the color there, Ben? I Mr. Allen: Let me tell you what my concern is. When I'm talking about District One, I want to know what communities are located within that area, and I can only do that if I have a map in front of me. If you tell me District One is composed of these subdivisions, boom, boom, boom, boom, then I know what I'm talking about. Without that, I don't know what I'm doing. 11 Ms. Bailey: I agree with you completely. What I thought I would do, before we actually got into looking at detail in the maps, is to go through the tabs in your notebook and give a brief overview of what exactly is on these reports, and to talk about -- I Mr. Allen: I'm the only one having the problem, so go ahead. Ms. Bailey: Let me go ahead and then let's fall back and see -- Mr. Kuhlke: Let me ask you this. Mike, can't you pull District One up by itself? That may help. Just pull District One up by itself. - n_ Ms~ Bailey:--ShouldI~ go ahead-with- these-reports-'? . - --- Mr. Kuhlke: Yes, go ahead. Ms. Bailey: All right. What I wanted to explain to you about the reports, just so that you'll know how to read them and interpret the data that's on there -.. under your Tab F, under the population summary report, I that gives you information by Commission District of the existing Commission District lines, what the deviation is on the existing lines, and the various population totals, the black population, the black population percentage, and the black voting age population for each Commission District. The numbers you see at the bottom of your report are going to give you information on deviation and deviation range for each of the Districts. Again, this all reflects the existing Commission Districts. If you move over to Tab G -- I thought I would go ahead and hit all these so you'll know at least what you have in your notebook and what you have to work with. Moving on to Tab G, that gives you basically the same information, but it goes into a little more detail. You'll notice, for instance under District One, you have VTD 1, VTD 10, VTD 12 and so on. VTD is another word for voting precinct. It's what the Census Bureau -- it's their terminology -- so that's all that means. So if you look at VTD 1, you're looking at our Precinct 1 in Richmond County. And so that's what that report is, just giving you a little more detail. Now moving over to Tab H -- moving over to Tab H it's giving you all the precincts in Richmond County in order with that same information. So if you wanted to at a quick glance to go in and if you're looking at say Precinct 20 and you're contemplating a move of I Precinct 20, this will tell you at a glance what the population is for that 12 I Precinct 20. Moving on to Tab I, Tab I gIves you voter registration statistics, and while the voter registration statistics are not the most important number to look at, it may be interesting or it may be information that you would like to have so I put that information in there. Moving on to Tab J, because all the precincts are referred to by code, we have one, two, three and so on, that doesn't tell you where those precincts are located to give you an idea of geographical location. So the information under Tab J will give you the code of the precinct and give you the polling location, which will give you a general idea of physically where that precinct is located. Now all of that information is here on the map as well, but if you're looking at your book outside of this meeting to contemplate some moves or some shifts of population, I tried to put enough information in your book so that you could come to a conclusion outside of this environment to bring back in at a differefltWdrk session. Are there .any-questions -abbut any of those reports? Mr. Bridges: Lynn, I've got one. On District Eight, you've got VTD 15 and under Tab J it's got 15A and B. I Ms. Bailey: That's a good question and that's the next thing on the agenda, to talk about that very thing. Move on? Mr. Kuhlke: Yes. Ms. Bailey: Okay. Review of District Lines Existing Commission Districts I Ms. Bailey: Since we consolidated in 1995, many of our -- well, let me back up and say that many of our precincts that border the old City of Augusta limit lines were actually -- the boundaries of those precincts were in fact the City of Augusta city limit lines. Since we consolidated and those city limit lines no longer were in existence, back in 1999 the Legislative Reapportionment Office got with me because they were in the process of trying to get our precinct boundary lines to the Census Bureau so they could lock in our precinct boundaries so that the General Assembly would have them to work from when they got ready to draw the House, Senate and Congressional lines. So there are a few areas where we moved the precinct 13 boundary lines from the city limit lines onto actual boundaries and road. It's nothing official. There were no changes made. No change of voters or anything like that. It was simply to give, to put the precinct boundaries onto a realistic boundary for the Census Bureau. So what I would like to do is point out a couple of those areas to you so that when we go through -- Mr. Bridges just had a question about an area in south Augusta -- in addition to changing some of the boundaries along the old city limit lines, we had a couple of precincts that were split by the old Eleventh Congressional District, and so we went in and modified those lines somewhat because it caused little tiny pockets of voters out there with 20 or fewer voters. So we went in and moved those lines. Now again, let me reiterate none of that is official. It was done to solidify the precinct boundary lines for the Census Bureau only and to give the General Assembly a good set of precinct lines -from-whi-ch-to-work -Let-me-pun-up~one-and-l'U show-you-what-Ym-talking- - about. All right. The blue lines that just came up there -- let's put precinct numbers up there -- the blue lines that came up there would reflect what the precinct boundaries look like right now. It's what we voted from last Tuesday. That's where our voters actually live. The bold black lines reflect the changes that the Reapportionment Office made in order to get those precinct boundaries off the City of Augusta limit lines. Now all those little squiggles that you see on those lines there reflect for the most part the old city limit lines. A few of those lines were actually the old Commission District lines, particularly in that top portion -- go on over to the right -- up -- back over to the right, my right -- those two areas are actually -- let me tell you, too, what you see up there, the peach colored portion is District One. The gold color is District Seven. And the yellow down there is District Three. And this is where they all kind of converge together. And in an effort to get those lines clean, we -- can you put the street names up there, Michael? -- can y'all even see that? We basically moved the precinct lines and all the old City limit lines to an existing precinct boundary, so I just wanted to point out that area and there are a couple of other areas where you'll see some differences, if you're familiar with our existing precinct lines. For instance, out by -- out on Wrightsboro Road, out by Augusta State P.E. Complex, there was another -- all that area that you see there where the little hand is floating around, that is the old City limit line, and so we moved that line back on streets. That's Wrightsboro Road, the bold line that you see just below the hand, and Jackson Road there to the left. So that's one area that's going to look a little bit different if you're familiar with the precinct lines. The area that Mr. Bridges was talking about is down in southeast -- way down south. 14 I I I I Mr. Bridges: Around Gracewood. Ms. Bailey: Okay, this is one of those little pockets I was talking about. Actually that was a Congressional District line and it's also a Commission District line. We've got about 20 or 30 voters living in that pocket, so I'm hoping that for redistrict~g purposes we can take these little pockets that were created in 1992 and consolidate those into one area. As I said, it's just a small number of people living there and we have a couple of other little pockets as we go around that we'll see. Mr. Bridges: vVhat's that road running through there, Lynn? Through the green area there? Ms. Bailey: Dorn Road. That's -- no. Mr. Bridges: I see it. Okay. I Ms. Bailey: Right. That bottom line I think is the creek. I just wanted to point out that there will be little subtle differences as we go through, and what I would like to do as we really get into this, is because the precinct lines that were sent to the Census Bureau are the same precinct lines that the General Assembly used when they redistricted, for our purposes in redistricting I would like for this group, if they will, to use those same precinct boundary lines and not our existing precinct boundary lines, so we're all sticking on the same set of lines, so we can eliminate those little pockets and things that exist around. So I hope that's agreeable to everybody, and if it is, I would like to turn off and forget about our existing precinct lines and go with what the Census Bureau has in there. Is that agreeable, Mr. Chair? Mr. Kuhlke: Any objection? None heard. Legislative Reapportionment's Plan I Ms. Bailey: All right. Now from here, I have been asked to get a couple of plans loaded into our system just to give this group and idea of what could happen in a redistricting plan. Back in September, toward the end of September, I met with the Legislative Reapportionment office to get information on how to get data from them to us so that if this group wanted 15 to do their redistricting we would be in a position to help administratively implement whatever plan this group came up with. When we arrived in Atlanta, they had taken the initiative of drawing a plan for us. That plan -- no one had any input. Staff did it, one of Linda [inaudible] staff people did it. It is not a plan that anybody particularly endorses or is fond of, but just as an example of what could be. We'll put that plan up there. If you'll turn back to your Tab F, the second page of your Tab F that's entitled Reapportionment Office Plan, it gives you the population breakdown and the deviation on their plan. Now one thing that was pretty glaring to me when I looked at it is one of our incumbent Commissioners is drawn out of his District and into another person's District. Mr. Colclough into District Six in the Reapportionment Office plan. So obviously it's not perfect. And by the way, just so you'll know, the -- I don't know if you can see the green and the--red;-- -There-~s- -a-. red-triangle-and-the-green-squares--up-there:- -'fhose indicate where the incumbent School Board and Commissioners live. I Mr. Kuhlke : Yes, sir? Mr. Cheeks: I'm on page one of one under F. Is that the plan that was drawn in Atlanta? Is that the deviation? Ms. Bailey: You have three reports under your Tab F. And it's the second of the three that's entitled Reapportionment Office Plan. That's the one we're looking at right now. I Mr. Cheeks: I can't find it, but what I want to point out, Mr. Chairman, if I may, there are not [inaudible] deviations on anyone of these plans. [inaudible] Mr. Kuhlke: Is he looking at the right one? Ms. Bailey: He is looking at the right plan. Mr. Cheeks: Deviation cannot exceed 1,250 plus or minus, and these run five percent. And this plan is showing 1,390 plus 1,379. Ms. Bailey: If I might just interject, you are exactly right. Both of these plans -- the existing plan and the other two plans that we're fixing to throw up there -- none of them are right. None of them are perfect. I 16 I Mr. Cheeks: Have to be [inaudible] a little bit. Mr. Kuhlke: I think we all need to understand that this is a starting point, and what we are going to be throwing up on the screen we are going to have to work on. But we had to have something to start with, and that's where we are. Mr. Cheeks: Let me ask this, if I may, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Kuhlke: Yes. Mr. Cheeks: Lynn, I know that you did work up there in Atlanta, and I know you didn't give them any criteria to work from, but they had the criteria that the law stated~ nso nOw if they have -that. criteria -this plan, I'm assuming, did not split any precincts or anything and [inaudible] the plan down to within the deviation which is required, is that going to require some precincts splitting, or can we put a whole precinct into a different District without splitting it? I Ms. Bailey: When we arrived at the Reapportionment Office -- and understand I had no idea they were doing this, they just had it ready for us when we got there -- they knew that their plan was not perfect. They just gave -- they just felt like they wanted to have something ready for us for whatever reason. Mr. Cheeks: I understand that, Mr. Chairman. I understand that, Lynn. What I'm saying, though, did they discuss with you or did you discuss with them had they researched sufficiently enough or deep enough to know if we're going to be splitting precincts or could we move a whole precinct into another proposed District when we could [inaudible] it without splitting it? That's one of the criteria I thought we requested, not to split precincts, and to keep it simple. And if we are, then I think we could do that, but I just wondered if they did it. I Ms. Bailey: I am thinking that they did split one precinct, maybe Precinct 29. It comes to mind that they may have split. But other than that, everything stayed intact as I recall. But certainly if this group decided to take the Reapportionment Office's plan to work from as a base, then they could move entire precincts or split as they needed, keeping in mind that the 17 idea is to try and not to split precincts if possible. Does that answer your question? I Mr. Cheeks: Yes. Yes. It does. Mr. Kuhlke: Any other questions? Okay, Lynn, go ahead. Ms. Bailey: Now what I was going to put out on this plan, I mentioned the incumbent issue. That Precinct 20 that you see right there, that little red triangle at the top is where Mr. Colclough lives, and that entire precinct was drawn into District Six by the Legislative Plan. So obviously there are things that need to be looked at and considered if using this plan as a basis from which to proceed. Committee for Progress's Plan Ms. Bailey: Now there is another plan that we were asked to show, which is the Committee for Progress's Plan. Many of the Commissioners I think should be familiar with that. I think it came before your group. Now this plan is not perfect either. Obviously the deviations are off on it. In fact, I if you will turn over one more page in your Section F, you've got a population summary report based on the Citizens Committee for Progress's Plan. They also had areas -- I think there were two or possibly three School Board incumbents that were drawn out of District or drawn into Districts with other incumbents. What else? Were there other issues? Mr. Kuhlke: Two Districts in the Commission race flip-flopped. Ms. Bailey: And the Districts were renumbered so that it put Mr. Bridges' District was numbered Six and Mr. Cheek's and Ms. Padgett's would be numbered Eight. So those were the differences in the Committee for Progress's Plan. Obviously neither one of these plans, Plans Two and Three, are perfect by any means, but I think this group could decide to take either one of those plans to use as a base. They are relatively close in deviation. They're not perfect, but relatively close. Or, I guess, could decide to scrap both of them and start from scratch. And I would say to the Legislative Delegation members here, if there are plans in Atlanta that this group might need to look at, they can also be sent down. We can get them electronically and have them available for the Committee as well, Mr. I Chairman, if that's out there. 18 I Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. I think one thing, Lynn, is that the map that's on the screen now, what's incorrect about that is that that map was drawn on voting age population and not total population and so that particular map, once you go to the total population your lines are going to change. Yes, sir? Mr. Connell: Lynn, do you have something that you would like to get to the State? Would you like the House [inaudible], Senate [inaudible], and Congressional [inaudible] you like us to compare with? Ms. Bailey: We actually have gotten the House, Senate and Congressional lines. We have them loaded into our system now. How that will be helpful to this group is if we do get to a point where precincts need to be split~- we can lay down the House,-Senate and Congressionallines to see if there is already a split created so that we can try to follow that same split. Mr. Connell: Follow the same split. I Ms. Bailey: Yes, sir. But we do have those lines loaded that we could put there as a layer at any time. So we have the capability of transferring any files out of the Reapportionment Office down here to Augusta to put up here for this Committee to see. Mr. Connell: Whatever you would like to have, call me or any member of the Delegation, and we'll be to get it for you. I think you can handle it yourself. They know you so well and so pleasantly in Atlanta, so I'm sure they'll get whatever you need. Ms. Bailey: I think we're fortunate to have a lot of people locally that work well with the Reapportionment Office. I am at the direction of this Committee. Whatever y' all would like to see done. I Mr. Cheeks: Lynn, it's possible to get -- I notice that you have in the front the addresses -- early on I was looking at this, I forgot where I saw it -- members of the Commission -- I didn't see the members of the Board of Education. I wonder if it's possible you could put -- that's just the members of the Committee -- is it possible to get a list of the eight District members? I realize that you've two at-large. But eight District members and the eight District members of the Board of Education and Commission side-by-side, regardless of what District they're in, preferably with the number District 19 that they currently reside in, so if any of us did want to look at a map on our own computers, and we could look at make sure that we are not pitting two incumbents against each other, which again is required under the law, and then because we are established in there I think we would like to have these lines the same, then we need whomever is going to be looking at doing anything to make sure they're not pitting two Board members against each other in one District, as well as trying to keep the Board and the House -- I started to say House -- but the Commission District somewhat currently together without overlapping. You understand what I'm saying? Addresses and names, that's all I need. I Ms. Bailey: Yes, sir. Mr~ Cheeks: -- And-the- District--they're. in.- And -l-can--put- that in my computer and work if I wanted to. Ms. Bailey: Yes, sir. I will get the -- Mr. Cheeks: Understand I want to. Ms. Bailey: I will get that information to all the Committee members. I I will tell you that for our work sessions with this group, we have that information plugged into the computer so we know exactly where they are. They are going to be identified in the precincts as we zoom in. I think the Reapportionment Office also has that same data in their office as well, so if anyone were working with people from the Legislative Reapportionment Office, they have that data plugged in also. But, yes, sir, I would be glad to get that information to you. Mr. Cheeks: I got it right [inaudible]. Mr. Kuhlke: Ladies and gentlemen, I think probably at this point what we want to do next, and I'm not sure that we'll do it today -- we may have at our next meeting get into it -- but neither one of the maps that are up there will work. And what we want to try to do is come up with a map that everybody feels good about, the Delegation will feel good about, and we'd be first in line at the beginning of the year that this thing be submitted to the Justice Department for approval. What I want you to understand is that when we start playing with the map, it's like walking on a waterbed. I mean I you move one thing, it moves a bunch of other things. So it's a difficult 20 I process to go through, and it's right intense. But I think we were appointed as Committee members to try to come up with something. I guess maybe this might be a little historic, because we've got the Board of Education and the Delegation and the Commission here trying to do something, and I think we want to do the best job we can for this community. So Lynn, do you want to -- just to give them an idea, if you could take -- go back to either map, it doesn't make any difference -- if you would go back to the State map and go to District One, which is represented by Commissioner Beard, and blow that up, let Lee look at it, and if you look at the second page, you've got the Reapportionment map, it's got a total population of24,419. Ms. Bailey: That's the second page under Tab F? I Mr. Kuhlke: Yes, ma'am. -And-it'sgota black population of 60.80%. Mr. Beard would like to have that population percentage at 66%. I'm just using that hypothetically, Mr. Beard. But if that's what he would like to see happen, change that percentage on the map to 66% and see what effect it might have on the Districts below it. And I'm doing this just to give you some idea of when we start playing with this, one move prompts three more moves in some way. Can you do that, Mike? I Ms. Bailey: All right. For this exercise, we're going to just start -- we're just going to grab a precinct and move it out of there to give you an idea of how it changed. Now you'll notice on the bottom of the screen there's a chart, and that charts has pretty much the same information on it as is contained in your population summary report, which is under your Tab F. But it will recomputed on the fly, as they say, so that we can move a precinct from one District to another or a part of a precinct from one District to another and instantaneously see how the numbers would change among the Districts. So we're going to just grab that Precinct 9B right there. Right now it's in District One. This is the Reapportionment Plan. Right now it is in District One. We're going to grab it and put it in District Two. Now I call your attention as we do this, look at the little chart at the bottom. I'll give you notice before we actually recomputed it, but you can see how it affects. All right. Not only did it turn green, but at the same time -- has it already recomputed? -- at the same time as soon as it changes colors it recomputes the bottom of the chart. Now I know that it may not be easy to see from where you're sitting, but we can print those out or certainly can stand up and go closer and stand closer around the map as we actually get into work sessions. You also notice when the changes are made that the bar 21 chart at the bottom right, you can see that District One dropped in population and District Two then grew in population. If you zoom in a little tighter on that 9B, Mike -- now when it comes to having to split precincts, for instance -- let's zoom in a little bit tighter -- you see the red and black numbers and the little blocks in there, those are actually census blocks that you see there. And the red number gives you the total population within that census block, and the black number gives you the total black population within that census block. So if it comes down to needing 200 or 300 voters here or there to make the District [inaudible], if we come up with a plan, if this group comes up with a plan that they like and it's just a matter of moving a couple of hundred people here and there and we need to split a precinct, then we can go in and split that by census boundaries, census blocks, and you've got the population figures there in front of you to grab just the necessary population tomove-them~--So"we "can- really- get-down-to-quite- -a-lot- o[-detail-when--we get to that point. I Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Has anybody got anything else they want to cover this morning? Because I think if we don't, we'll adjourn this meeting today, but we would want to in the next week or so set up another meeting, and I'm anticipating that that meeting is probably going to be at least half a day to start. And at that point, we will begin to work on the maps. I Mr. Bridges: One thing I'd like to mention, Mr. Chairman, and Lee and I failed to mention this during the criteria, but I think if all possible we need to make sure that Blythe and Hephzibah remain within the same Commission District. I mean the city as a whole, each city as a whole. The two of them may not be within the same Commission, but the city as a whole should be within one Commission District. Ms. Bailey: Actually, Mr. Bridges, I think your criteria spells out that we not only avoid splitting precincts, but that we avoid splitting municipalities as well. Mr. Bridges: Okay. Mr. Cheeks: One more question, Mr. Chairman, before we adjourn. We have established guidelines we felt acceptable by the Courts as well as acceptable by the [inaudible] and I asked Mr. Beard if y'all had done any, and he said no, he thought you might do it later. Before we meet again, I I wonder if we could have a sense as to what the local people feel ~s would be 22 I the proper percentage to be considered a minority District, because if we are going to face that we are going to have to answer that question. If you don't have that question established, how are we going to proceed any further than where we are today? If we had established what's going to be determined, that's going to be a District, for a minority candidate to win, I mean if so chosen -- the federal government is going to require that -- if y'all haven't established that, where do we go? Ifwe haven't established [inaudible]. Mr. Kuhlke: Any comments? Mr. Cheeks: I think y'all ought to get together, the School Board and the Commission, and see what y'all can consider -to be a practical number. Is it going to be a voting V AP number, is it going to be a population number, and if so, how much -of a -deviation or how much range can we play with in there because I think this is going to boil down to be the fmal analysis in the plan that y' all are going to pass out. I hope it gets passed. That's going to be the final criteria [inaudible]. Anyone differs from what I'm saying? Mr. Kuhlke: No, I think probably that is going to become an issue. I Mr. Beard: I think we're not prepared to do that. Mr. Kuhlke: No. Mr. Beard: I think we can do it, and I think it should be done. And the other thing that I think we ought to have agreement here. Do we have people here objecting to mirroring, too, before we leave, adjourn today? Mr. Kuhlke: Good point. I think we brought it up, Lee. Mr. Beard: Yes. Mr. Kuhlke: We added it to the criteria. We didn't have any objection to it. Mr. Beard: Okay. I just wanted to make that clear. I Mr. Kuhlke: Right. This is going to be an interesting experience when we go through this thing. It's going to be very difficult, and Willie, he doesn't really care because he never has any competition. But let's do that. 23 Let's think about what sort of objective we would like to achieve as far as minority, and we need to think both voting age population or total population, but what you're going to find -- we've got a pretty diverse community. If you just take a look at the population shift from Lee's District to the south Augusta area, we are pretty mixed up around here. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I Mr. Cheeks: Well said. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay, could we set -- could we try to set a date that we get back together, and I think we are going to set aside at least half a day. Lynn, would next week -- Mr. Jack? - Mr. eonnell: Mr:Kuhlke;-may-I-Telate-to you [inaudible] -House and Senate, and we're in the throes of a lot of work, a lot of committee work between now and January, and if it pleases the Chairman and the members of the council Commission and the Board of Education, I think you're working from a committee of the Commission and of the Board of Education, and if it's all right, I would like to have us work with a subcommittee from our Delegation, and I will appoint three between now I and your next meeting, and if anyone of our members would like to be on that committee, if they'll let me know. In the meantime, we're loaded with some work between now and January, so if you don't mind I'll appoint a three-person committee between now and the next meeting. Mr. Cheeks: I'd like to thank Jack for suggesting that because with . the number of counties that I currently have, plus the new ones I am having to take on, it's already hard on me, and it's going to be difficult between now and January for me to find half a day. I am having three to five meetings out of the city every day. It adds up. Three yesterday. Out of the city. I mean you take eight counties, and every County Commission, every Board of Education, every School Board, every Police Chief, everybody and his brother wants to meet with me before January, so it's going to be difficult. I'm the only one, I think, that has [inaudible] counties. Mr. Kuhlke: We appreciate that. Mr. Connell: We'll consider that, Mr. Cheeks. I Mr. Kuhlke: Let me ask this question. What is the best time to meet? Is it morning, afternoon, late in the afternoon? Morning? Early morning? Okay. How about next Wednesday, the 14th? Ms. Padgett: I'm going to be out of town. Mr. Kuhlke: You're out of town? Okay. How about the 15th? Out of town? Ms. Padgett: No. I'll be home. Mr. Kuhlke: 15th? Lee, 15th? Ben, you going to volunteer for the committee? Mr. Allen: Yes, I'm going to volunteer. Do my best. Mr. Kuhlke: Lynn, why don't we go ahead, and Lena, can you set us up here for Thursday, the 15th at 9:30? I Ms. Bailey: Lena, would that give us time to get the Directors meeting over? We'll have Directors meeting. Mr. Kuhlke: Well, Lynn, can we start earlier than 9:30? Ms. Bailey: Yes, sir, that would be fine. Mr. Kuhlke: Could we start at eight o'clock? Ms. Bailey: I'm available to do whatever the group needs to do. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Well, let's set it for the 15th. Let's say 8:15. 8: 15. Thursday, the 15th. All right. Ms. Bailey: Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question? Mr. Kuhlke: Yes. I Ms. Bailey: Besides the information that Sen. Cheeks wanted me to get regarding the addresses of the incumbent School Board and Commission members, is there any other information that anyone on the committee 25 would like for me to get between now and the meeting next week, to get you anything that would be helpful? I Mr. Kuhlke: Let me ask you to do this, and I think every committee person should have one. If we could get a hard copy of the state map and if you could get Ben a big hard copy -- but if you could get us a hard copy of the state map, of the Committee for Progress' map, and get it so that they have a chance to look over those maps before we get back. Ms. Bailey: Would it help if we had the individual Districts on a separate page so that they would have an overall map and then the individual Districts on a page by themselves? --Mr; Kuhlke:- -That would be perfect. Mr. Allen: I assume that it would be possible for me to come sit down and talk to you? Ms. Bailey: Oh, sure. Mr. Allen: And I'll also tell you what I need so that I can see. I Ms. Bailey: Great. Ms. Allen: Cause some of these things I just -- I'm one of these people that have to see it. Ms. Bailey: That's fine. Okay. Anytime. Mr. Cheeks: Lynn, I'm don't need you to give me that information. You said that had it in Atlanta [inaudible]. Mr. Cheeks: Just be sure you have one with precincts on it, Ms. Bailey and Mr. Cheeks. Ms. Bailey: What I can do with those maps, I'll give you an overall map of the District like is in your Section K in your book of each of these other two plans. I'll also give you a detailed map of each District blown up I with the precinct lines laid on top of it. 26 I Mr. Kuhlke: That's perfect. Ms. Bailey: If we put the precinct lines on the overall map, it gets so congested just because it's so small. But I can do that by District, yes. Mr. Kuhlke: All right. Anything else? Mr. Mays: Mr. Chairman? Mr. Kuhlke: Yes, sir? Mr. Mays: I just want to go on record thanking you, Mr. Chairman, for convening the first real [inaudible]. This is probably the most orderly . one tharwill be conducted in the state- of Georgia. Mr. Kuhlke: So far. I Mr. Mays: Our Legislative Delegation [inaudible]. Our first one. - But I think in terms of the attendance that's here today from the three governmental bodies certainly says something about the interest that's there, even though the Legislative Delegation will be putting in a committee with the other two committees that have already been set, I think that in this period of time [inaudible] we've got a budget session to go through that we are going to go through at Christmas, but this is something that still has to be done, and the Board has a lot of work that they're doing at the same time. Everybody is busy. But it's at a point now, I think, that at least everybody's minds will be clearer to a point that we've got to [inaudible] and we want to make sure that everybody is [inaudible] at least to a point [inaudible]. I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for getting this off the ground. Mr. Kuhlke: Thank you. Anything else? If not, we stand adjourned. Thanks. [Meeting adjourned] Lena J. Bonner Clerk of Commission I 27