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Home My WebLink About11-13-2000 Meeting ,'..' '." . ..t. -I :"~~ : "., I L.J ~";I;'" " ~. .,j " I' :- .., fV: I . "~. '""l"f" . . .....:.:~ ". . ' LAW StuDy SUBCOMMITTEE COMMITTEE ROOM - November 13t 2000, ,'., 'r:. ". . _l ~. 12:30 P.M. ., -"..:>1"' PRESENT: B. Youngt Mayor, L. Beard, Chairm~ W. Mays, S. Shepard, M. Williams, _., members, B. Young, Mayor, H. Brigham, A. Cheek, B. Kuhlke, Commissioners,-W~ ",; Hornsby, Interim Administrator, J. Wall, Attorney, L. Bonner, Clerk of Commission. _:_ ,;.'.:.:.;':~ ~... MEDIA: H. COIj'ellt Augusta Chronicle, G. Eskola, Channel 6, S. Eidson, Metro Spirit, D.. Benn, Channel 12. ~"i Discuss interim legal services. Mr. Beard: It has been approved by the Commission, to have in-houSe la\y " department fQr the government of the city of Augusta. I think the main thing we would have we consider now is the transitional period and will that transitional period be with the present law firm that we have or will that transition be with someone else. I think we have to come to some decision today so that we can move forward. At this point I would like to open it up for discussion on that Before we do I would like to say that we do know that it is almost impossible to hire in-house counsel by December 31 ? We also realize that we do need a transitional time period. Now, the point would be how do V!,e..,: get to that I think it is time that we put all that on the table. Number one, would be the' time element that would be involved in the transition period, whether it would be one ' year or two years. Number two, would the. present legal counsel be interested in that. Number three, who would be in charge. I would like to open it up for any discussion. Mr. Mayor: Might we ask Mr. Wall if he would be willing. to participate in the. transition and if so for what period of time and under what circumstances? Mr. Wall: When you say transition, obviously I want to assist in a transition. Mr. Beard: A transition beyond December 31 and we're talking about a time element whether we're talking about one year beyond December 31 or two' years. I think we 90 need to hear from you as to what you would be interested in.- Mr. Wall: I feel like I've had a one conversation in so far as what kind of transition would be in order. Yes, I want to assist in a transition whether it is over the next four or five days or whatever. I think the difference is what do you have in mind by a local transition. Is this transition of all the legal work or is this the transition as far as just the routine day-to-day type work or pending litigation is concerned _ and future litigation. There are a lot of aspects of it that I think needs to be set down and dealt with and talked through I also understand the need for decisions to be made. What I would prefer to discuss on an individual level is, are we talking about just the in-house matteI" :/ and the control, the level of who's in charge and those time periods without necessarily , trying to make a decision today. But I think that's going to be a long process of going . . .. ..:.->f!,;- :.:"/.:~.~;:~.':::::: :.-' ~~~ .. .+,. . ~-. .. . "~..',r."':< ':.: . ".. -" "- . . ;.~ + \ T': ..,~. .... :~-:_ i~.: ~~~~::;":~~;)~,~-'.- '~---;'."' .".' .. .... .--.- '. #-:: ~ ~-.: . .: ....'~:~:-.': ~. \.~;~~}T\ . , . :..;r...'\ ~;..~..ft;~T\."'.l'~' , . " ,>' ~."{.~{0~"~ - , .,. "" ,', .:..... . ". ...' ..' _..... ... "............1':.. .e ~ugh the various roles and responsibilities that I have and coming up wi~::~;r\~.~:~,~~i~'F~' penod to match that ' ,-'.', '..:,.,-. Mr. Young: If I could follow that up by asking Mr. Wall under what terms and , , . .,,- -....'. "._.~,..... circumstances would you participate in the' transition'! You have raised a number of':~"-;;~ issues, but what is Jim Wall's position on this. If you coUld write the agreemen~''!ith' Us'~:H;~.", . what uld ? ",' '- ".-, .'" , .',,,,,.' ....".,.-""..',' ",' : terms wo you set. " --' ' '",;~' ,-~,.. '. ~~."""~ ~ :<. ." ..' Mr. Wall: When I was askecf that question previoUsly, what I indicated 'w~ "';~t~:~i'" . . .-t" . .. '. -''\-... ,"'~ I would like to do is have a three year transltion period. And over that three years you: ' '--', would hire and train the in-house attorneys and you would work out a transition in so far. - ~.. as any litigation during that period of time. That's the proposal that I have Made.'''' is iliat 'Yf't,:;: the only proposal, no, there are always different ways, but I don't know what other ideas , there are~ ' And r don't know whether or not that is unacceptable. ' " . ~ ,..... ..- '. . Mr. Young: Would you entertain that same position if it were a two year transition as opposed to a three year? Mr. Wall: I would entertain that provided that there were some adjustment in So " : far as the complex litigation is concerned. As far as the hourly rate in dealing With. that' r,~ .. complex litigation. " "',:":"i',' .,:~ ,__~~.J ~..~:':.~" Mr. Beard: Is that the only thing that you would object too? ~ 10;.. , . . :..; .,-~ ,~;.:,1 .. _ ~ . . _ 0-' Of" . ...~- ..... - ~:.~-:-...'~-~.z.T Mr. Wall: And again this was not statci:l, but the one thing that I have said' thatT' want is to be in charge of the attorneys and if I'm going to be responsible, I feel like t need to be the equivalent of a department head in the sense that they would report through me during the entire two year period. Mr. Williams: I hear what Mr. Wall is saying and I can understand but I don't agree. If you have a transition period and you have someone coming in and there are all kinds of situations, all kinds of legal aspects of this government that come to us daily. I think that if we're going to get an in-house situation, we will find a knowledgeable of the legal matter. We're not going to get someone that we are trying to train to be an attorney. Weare going to train that attorney to handle legal matters within our government. I have no problem with a year or even a two-year transitional period, if it's necessary. I don't agree with a two-year contract. I think we should do a year contract if Mr. Wall is acceptable to that to try and, transition to a legal department or to some other attorney who is a qualified attorney. I don't think we should be locked into a two-year contract. - 'Mr. Cheek: I would see a two-year transition. The first year we would be acquiring the services of our one to two in-house to handle day-to-day things, like real estate, human resources, human relations and other business dealing with the' /;' Commission and other committees. The second year, perhaps bringing in our department head. During that period of time, Mr. Wall has an unlimited amount of knowledge and experience, I think he should definitely be overseeing the operations and the second year r 1 i r- ; I 1 .... b , , t t r , i. f" ! ;, r ~ i ..- ;; I f- .' ; .i .....- t f L .. f I L . ". .-~ :"":'J;~.~~~1~:~::~.~,;:~ ':<:-,'~. t' '~I . ~': ~~ . .... ,...., I.,; l,.: ,- ....... ~I I . ....: .~ .-..;,. maybe act as a partner if our chosen department head and allow that transition to occur. I hope that we would consider that type of time to allow for the transition. ..' .;:..~ ",; .'1'"..,' Mr. Wall: In so far as the first year is concerned, understand that there are a lot of "',' issues that are going to come up. And frankly a lot of the time and effort that I along with other members of the firm have been devoting to county wo~ we need to shIft to .. the in-house department Mr. Williams, with all due respect all the consolidation bill:~U.;;'~' >..~ says is that there will be an in-house attorney hired full time and that you can accomplish ..~. easily and you all have already made the decision to do that But that needs to happen' : sooner rather than later. The faster we can get one or two attorneys on board, its going to '"";~ .' improve our ability to respond to things in a timely manner is going to get that person on . board at a much earlier date and it is going to provide more time for that person or persons to get brought up to speed about what's going on. SOt let me assure all of you there is no desire on my part to hold on to any aspect of it. But, if I'm going to be held accountable and responsible for it, in my opinion it's going to take two years for someone to get brought up to speed. The first year I'll probably devote more time to laying things out, supervising the work, training. So the second year is going to be when they'll learn to be on their own. ' Mr. Shepard: I think that any lawyer that comes in rather they are experienced or in experienced they'll need some time in what I call a mentoring relationship with a -- senior lawyer that is now servicing the business. I think that Jim would be an excellent mentor. Whenever I open a file I always date it and it seems like nothing ever open and closes. quickly. The average length that a file is open is usually well over a year even in a small practice like mine. The experience factor that Jim has is the key to making this transition successful. I talked to Mr. Cheek a couple of meetings ago and what we were ..' leaning toward on a reconsideration was a transitional period for going with the Shepard model initially and then transitioning to what-Mr. Beard authored through Ms. Sumner. I think the appropriate period of time is a two-year transition in which Mr. Wall works his ' way out of this business in an orderly and professional fashion. Then we pickup the additional lawyers during the period. We mentor them, we bring them along and we grow them into the job and in the second year since it's the will of the Commission we get a chief counselor senior lawyer that will take over as the main lawyer in the department. So I would if it's in order I would make that in the form of a motion that we adopt my model for the first two years, transitioning to the Beard model in .. the third year. Mr. Young: Second. .. Mr. Wall: I want everyone to understand my rationale for suggesting a three-year period. I think if you have a client the size of Augusta, I think that you as Commissioners and the citizens of Augusta deserve quality representation. You deserve the equivalent of#a partner in a law firm. If you look at the partnership tracts of any firm, the minimum' ......- you will find is a three-year term; the minimum is a five years. I think that if you expect ' to hire a lawyer of whatever level of experience and bring them in and have them take over full responsibility in less than two-years, I think you're making a mistake. - 'w '::-.:'''';';'?~r'~''':' . '".,.. .. .. ~_'_'___'4 '. . O. ->~;\~:f.i:~:~:", ::- '.~::'~~/ ~'. '.', - ~;:r?"J:~:~~.,.::-.'~ . .... .., .-- '.~ .~ l' . ' ,~~ ,~:. .:.... \. ~:r~:.~~:~"~; ~':.~ :~'-.~f''';..':.. ~'.. ',' '_: 'I -. . Mr. Williams: I would like to make a substitute motion that we g() with the:.two ,i~' ", years with a year transition period. If the firm or the in-house situation is available at that ,~:~ - point and it can stand on its own within a year then the clause will say that we'll end the , , contract for the remaining year. :,,; ..,. . ,,~":.l" ,::""':~! Mr. Beard: I'll second.this motion just for the discussion. . I think the only thing.::,;: ;:. that we partially agreed on with this Committee is the two-year deaL The details.?~ a ,;;!}:;':'~ two-year period have to be worked out and I don't think we can work it out in am~~on., ":..:: . I'm not prepared to vote on either one of these motions at this time because if s too :;':c' " ,; general and too broad at this time. I think at some time even as late as.Friday, November :":: 17 let's come back and work out what would be involved with Mr. Wall."" "" -.. .. Mr. Young: I would suggest that the chairman of this committee and Mr. Wall get together and work out a proposal under which Mr. Wall would assist us in the tiansitiOD. and bring that proposal back to this committee for this committee to either accept it or reject it. Mr. Shepard: Advancing this thing in a positive way is vel)' important. Its. not a matter of personnel it's a matter of stability and quality representation for this city. As maker of the first motion, I would withdraw my motion in favor of the Mayor's suggestion under the condition that Mr. Williams will do the same thing. :3~' -':'~., -:-:.~' .. Mr. Williams: I'll 'withdraw my motion. :' "-:: .... . t::~ . {;<- Mr. Mays: I do think we ,.should be very honest with each other in terms of. where.. we are with this whole process. A lot has happened this year, in reference to where different parties were on this issue. Be it the proposal that came Mr.. Beard or the proposal from Mr. Shepard. I do think in fairness to everybody not just the committee; I think that when you and Mr. Wall have this talk, prior to us meeting again that we need to make a serious decision. First of all, your outside attorney could end up being Jim Wall for the next eight to ten years, there is nothing from precluding that from happening. And that may not be a bad idea if it so deems that. Quite frankly, what this boils do~ to. is who is in charge during that transition. But not just for the transition but, if the agreement is for two-years, you could end up with an agreement of whether that person deemed by the Commission would be the outside litigant for this department. ,What threw me off was when we were hearing that this was a situation that our current attorney was not going to take part in. I agree, we have cases that aren't just going to go away that from an experience factor somebody has to deal with them. But the flip side of that coin is that I have seen firms come and go, and I have seen both the city and the county still exist and still go on. But you have to be prepared that if you're going to change and - make a different type of situation in government then you prepare for it on a positive side. I think that's the question that has to be answered, then you get to the real deal of who is in charge. It doesn't mean that Jim has to go anywhere. I think those situations- !! that he is familiar with, he will have to handle. A lot is going to be determined by the '" level of experience the person has and what you want. You can do one or two things, you need to meet with the Legislative Delegation since they created this situation, let them go ,-. . ;~~':::',,:::~~:'.~ ~....~. f , ~ I r L r r- r ~ "- <!l .., ~ t r , L I r ~ L ~ -'-- I t "-. ~ '.'-',' ';:. '7 . .~:! ..,. " "'1'" -- , . . . ~.::-t".~r-;.'j":~.}"..'" .. .,.] :J .~ -, I'..... ~" ., ,v ._,: . _'..J ~ '_ _ ...... - , . I '-.: . ""Cc. ..,.....:.:;,.,.y.,::,~....,;;2 :~S~.J.~~~:r~i:1~~,ii~~!~\,~~~~~,...:-:.~".. ".' ....... '-t"'1,1t_-$";~"-~-'?i~'t!:~'.';'~."~j~$\i........~t(~~.}.:..~.....~,. ..,..."'...._. . ..,'1"'. ......... - ., ~ :,,: '-" ,:. ..'., :?~:.' :~ 7.~-r:'~:;.:i;:~. ",);t~:<:7:?)}~~~~1.'~h~+3f0~t~~":<:::~:~,.-<:2':,.-' ',::'..: :;:::::::': ." -:':: back and cwmge the bill aDd take tIie'ra;N'~artmeiit io~~out,' Or the'ineommg Mayor - can noml';~tewho he wants"the::liiQmeyta bC:when1ie"tiT&s~ffiCebr:P ~ou'&n'~" 'it back ' to wtiere- it fs.'riOw: ami'efccfa[dittoiney~ every ~BUt;;)met~;~es'~ ~u 'iiaVe~~:dCe ii"; , , ,,,.. '" ','h_ " _. ,." .... "rY~ __'" ./_ ..'" , deciSi~n8htorwrongorindiffeientyou haVetO'J.tlaIre'it.-'::"'"'~'~"'~' ~,,,.,, .".. .-::: ::7~~';;;:':;:~.-=,1:'":,~"_ . ";'::<:':". ~'~:\" ::,:>;:~'~~.:)f~m~f'::::)}~: ;~;';>;:'!:'~~:\'/ ,;~~;.~~~:~)~::%~~~~~,; ,.~' :;,.::::~:, :;. .t::~~',:i,",~{,~;,~' .,.' . .' Mr.Beanf: WbafYm gomg tD~,is'if~~)he .~. ofthe:C01Dmitteci'ifwe' . ,couIdmeet agamOn~'NoVeiDber2o-..;."'ltbink we~cmIDake'a"deCisioD.tb.en.'~?~'}:'~i4:>,;,: ',,_.;;~~~:.- ' " ., , ,'. '.~/'~~:~~i~~~ir:,:;~2~~~;'~:~:;::~~~~:;i?::'~~:~:,~';;~:'~":.,::~~::.,:~':'" '-.,;.~~~~',:;,~-.;' ~~' ,', , Mr.: Mays: If'we' cOUld -~ge"the"m~g<'~ 'to:-Tuesday' since':We'll be here, anyway? '. ',';..::-;, :.',,;" ". ;"'~:':";:P';::";;;;';' -: , Mr.'B~ :?Ietn,'m~.~ ~'TheSday ~ 12:00. If the committee has any thc?ughts to convey <m.; thiS..issu~ please get t() me. ~. ':., .: - . -.'.>:. ...~ ',.' ~ . - ' . '. .... '.. Mr. Shepard; I move we adjourn. Mr. Mays: Second. Motion canied unanimously. Lena J. Bonner Clerk of COInIIllSsion /bb , ':.';~s~::,.' ,;~~i:~>;'::i f.'" '"1' . '.-.- . ,.-.;-, .. ./ ,i / , " ":"'. >::~ .~"' ..~. <-., OJ i~" .... '1. ...-..'C:;.j... f'-..t,. ~.l.~~~..~';.~ri~~?~~ft:n:~;"~i..:';~7~~~;.~lol~~~1t;i~~1~~~~';::! ~"~'. ~W~'".:-':);~:":;.~"\:-..:~~""':'.~:.".;::::: ~:"...:_~ _-~ ..-:::,f.R..J....: .. AGENDA LAW STUDY SUBCOMM. 12:30 P.M. COMMITTEE ROOM November 13. 2000 I. Discuss interim legal services. II. Other business. ,/