HomeMy WebLinkAbout08-11-1997 Meeting
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PUBLIC SAFETY
COMMITTEE
COMMITTEE ROOM - August 11/1997
3:30 P.M.
PRESENT: Hon. H. Brigham, Chairman; Kuhlke, Mays, Zetterberg,
members; R. Oliver, Administrator; J. Wall, Attorney; Beard, J.
Brigham, Handy, Commissioners; Donna Williams, David Collins, Glenn
Greenway, ,Finance Department; Sheryl Jolley, Solicitor; Sheriff
Charlie Webster, Sheriff's Department; Chief Ronnie Few, Fire
Department; Lena Bonner, Clerk of Commission.
ABSENT: Hon. Larry E. Sconyers, Mayor.
ALSO PRESENT: Sylvia Cooper, Augusta Chronicle; Rosemary Forrest,
Metro Spirit; George Eskola, Channel 6; Channel 12.
Clerk: We have a request for an addendum item; A request for
an update from Sheriff Webster regarding the recent award of the
Justice Department grant.
Mr. Mays: So move.
Mr. H. Brigham: Second.
Motion carried unanimously.
A request from Sheriff Webster for the approval of $33,352.75 for
matching funds (25% of the grant amount). This amount necessary
for the procurement of $100,058.25 in federal grant funds.
Sheriff Webster: This is for three investigators including
salary, fringe benefits and personal equipment as well as two
vehicles. It's a one year grant, subject to renewal. If we agree
with it it's $33,000; plus the Federal government will put up
$100,000.
Mr. Oliver: So at the end of the year then we either have to
pick it up if they don't renew it, or do away with the program.
Sheriff Webster: Or do away with it one.
Mr. Todd: My question is for the Sheriff, is this the violent
crime investigators.
Sheriff Webster: Yes, this is violent crime against women.
Mr. Todd: I certainly would like to go on record as speaking
in support of it. Certainly I think that we need to beef up our
investigative department as far as violent crimes go.
Sheriff Webster: I think that family violence is probably one
of the things that is heading up most of the crime today. People
are taking an interest in it, they are tired of seeing women and
children abused. And I don't see why this grant won't be renewed
next year. I think it's something that we won't have any problem
Mr. Zetterberg: Is the relationship, Sheriff, between this
particular grant and the Justice Department grant that was just
proposed for the City in the 3.6 million?
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with what so ever renewing next year.
Sheriff Webster: No sir, none what so ever. I've put in for
several grants for the last two years and every one of them is
under a different circumstance. I saw some federal money out
there, I saw some tax money we could save Richmond County. Right
here you are putting up a small percentage, 25% for three
investigators and two automobiles. They are not going to take the
automobiles back. We'll be driving the automobiles for one year.
You're still ahead of the game at the end of the year if you only
keep the automobiles, you haven't lost anything.
Mr. Kuhlke: The thing that concerns me a little bit as being
a Commissioner, is that the grants, obviously we want to try to
take advantage of everyone we can. But the thing that really
concerns me a little bit as we go forward, is you look at the short
term and sometimes the short term impact is not terribly bad. But
if we get to the end of the grant period and there is not a
reevaluation of those programs and if we don't look budget wise
whether we have the funds or not to really support these kind of
programs, then hard decisions are having to be made by us. And I
think that my position as is that as these things expire that if I
I'm here, we are really going to look at them really strong because
we are moving very rapidly towards a point down the road on some of
these grants, that if there is not an extension of the grant, then
we're talking about a tax increase. So, this one to me is not that
significant, although I believe if we decide to continue it, and
the grant is not there, we're talking about an increase in the
Sheriff's budget, $133,000 a year.
Sheriff Webster: That's correct. I can understand your
feelings on it. But I'd also like to do this, I would like to go
on record as stating, I believe that if you had to go before the
tax payers of Richmond County and tell them that you are going on
for public safety where people can get the protection, I don't
think you would have a problem raising the taxes.
Mr. Kuhlke: Well that would work about every third year.
When you got two years to recover from it.
Sheriff Webster: I've talked to a lot people in Richmond
County and I run every four years myself, and I don't have a
problem with people when I'm talking to them in regards to public
safety, as long as they are getting public safety. People are
getting worried in Richmond County because of the crime elements
going on.
Mr. Mays: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that I
this be approved.
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Mr. Kuhlke: Second.
Mr. Zetterberg: I have one last question on it. Do we have
any experience at all on these grants. This is all new to me, the
way the Federal. government dribbles this money back to us. Do we
have any experience that a grant was given to us that involved
getting people and then the grant not given to us again.
Mr. Oliver: I don't here, but I do in other places. The
Federal government notorious for bait and switch.
After further discussion;
Motion carried unanimously.
A request from Solicitor Sheryl Jolley for permission to apply for
grants from: 1997 VOCA-Victims/Assistance Grant Program and 1997
STOP Violence Against Women Grant.
Ms. Jolley: I'm here to ask your permission to apply for
funding from the Violence Against Women Act. I believe that is a
division of the grant that the Sheriff's Department has applied for
to increase his investigators to provide services to victims of
domestic. I'm really here for the 40 or 50 women a week that come
through State Court on family violence charges who need to have
assistance through the judicial system and whose cases need to be
handled better than they have been in the past. We are averaging
over 2,000 cases of domestic violence through Richmond County alone
in an individual year. Our case load increased 42% last year after
consolidation. It's up an additional 17% this year. So our case
load has increased 59% in the last eighteen months, over our normal
volume. In that regard, we have been given two additional staff
from Municipal Court. We certainly did not get a 59% in the staff
to handle those needs. This particular grant is a federal grant.
It requires a 25% inkind/cash match. I believe I will be able to
fulfill the 25% requirement through utilizing salaries that are
already paid in our office, as supervisors for example. Our chief
investigator would supervise the investigator that I would be
asking for in this grant proposal. It would be my intention to ask
for an attorney, one or two investigators, and an intake person to
provide services strictly for domestic violence women. This will
create a domestic violence unit from the Solicitors office to,
again be able to address these needs. I think that I can honestly
tell the County that we would be looking at least three years
before there would be any modifications to the award wherein the
County would have to look at potentially footing the bill. I don't
expect for domestic violence cases to go down. We are seeing more
and more of these cases. I am here to ask for your support in
allowing me to apply for the grant. The deadline is August 22.
I've.been working really hard to get the information together to do
this and this will help off set the request that I have made in my
last years budget and in my upcoming budget, that will be presented
at a later time. One of the other issues that does come along with
this is office space. We currently rent a building on Watkins
Street, which houses the Victims Witness.. Assistance Program. It I
would be my intention to place these personnel in that building and
also we've been looking at some space where the Municipal Court .
Clerks currently hold office.
Mr. Brigham: You said that you would be able to from
recaptured funds to fund your portion of it for this year.
Ms. Jolley: I believe I'll be able to utilize it under
in/kind services. At the very most, and I really haven't computed
it specifically, but at the very most I would think a 10% cash
match at the tops for that. And I would have a very specific
amount to tell you today, I can tell you that it's going to run
somewhere between $225,000 and $275,000; I'll have to get the price
of an automobile and I need to check with personnel on how to
calculate the value of the fringe benefits.
Mr. Zetterberg:
for $225,000.
Would you just summarize again what we get
Ms. Jolley: We would be able to get one full time attorney,
he would be a prosecutor to specialize in the handling of domestic
violence cases. One or two investigators who will be in charge
with again following up with the Sheriff's Department in handling
those cases. We would get one clerical person who would be in
charge of intake and setup to prepare the files for report and with
filing with the clerk. We would obtain travel money for any
conferences that they would need to attend. We would be able to
obtain their equipment, such as desk, chairs, computers. We would
obtain printing money for printing of the brochures and their
needed office supplies. And also, insurance replacement parts and
things that you would need for the automobile.
Mr. Kuhlke: These things come to us and I don't want to be
redundant, but I am going to ask the Sheriff the same thing. To me
I think that this Committee, prior to approving a grant for
whatever it is, is that we need to be better educated on how the
Solicitors office in other communities compared with our size
operate. What their budget is and what ours is. Basically,
looking at comparisons. And I know that you probably have a lot of
that information. But all I get is what I hear from you, I want to
see it in writing. And I mean Bibb County, Chatham County,
Muscogee County, Athens-Clarke County, whatever, something
comparable to us. And then I would like to see, a performer looked
at by the Administrator, but brought to us, on supposed there is
not an extension and there is a continuation, what impact is it
going to have on your budget on an annual basis? And what I'm
looking at is this, I'm looking at the Solicitors office, I'm
looking at the Sheriff, I'm looking at whatever else department
that comes in here. We get 20 or 30 grants in here and they all
terminate at about the same time, everybody wants to stay where we I
are, we are blowing ourselves out of the water in this community.
And contrary to what the Sheriff says, people are concerned about
the cost of government and taxes, and we need to be very aware of
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that. But I think that the burden of putting, getting this back to
us falls on the department head, the Administrator and the Director
of Finance to give us enough information that we can make an
intelligent long term and short term decision on all. of these
issues that come up. So, I'd probably vote for it. Because it's
hard to vote against something when you are trying to protect the
public. But, I want to look at what the impact, Randy is on these
grants as we apply for them, assuming and I can almost tell you
100% that once you approve something, it will not cut back, it will
go forward, it will stay exactly where it is. You're talking about
at least 4 to 5 new people in your office on this thing. And if
you get those people through a grant, you are going to want to keep
them. And I'm sure that the need is there. I hear the plea and
I'm sympathetic to the plea, but I want a little more information.
I want to know how we compare as a community with other communities
outside. And I want to see it in writing.
Ms. Jolley: That information has been provided to the County
Administrators office already in writing.
Mr. Oliver: It may have been provided to Finance, but I have
not seen it.
Ms. Jolley: Well, the Administrators office sent it to me,
and then I was told that Finance would handle it. It's been
presented to Finance, probably about six weeks ago, with not only
the case loads for every other office in the state of Georgia, but
also the amounts of most of their budgets, the ones that I could
get my hands on. Also their staffing, their number of judges and
their number of cases. And I can tell you that Augusta operates
with about one third the staff of Gwinnett, probably Clayton, Cobb,
Athens has about the same number of lawyers that we have in our
office, but they only file 6,000 cases a year. They don't file
35,000 cases. So you have to be able to make sure you're not
comparing apples with oranges. The budget for DeKalb County is
around $1.6 million and that's excluding the grants that they
receive. Our budget is really low, it's right around $650,000.
Mr. Kuhlke: Well, you know we may be way behind times, and we
may need to go back to the tax payers and say look we got to this
and this and this and it's going to cost you this to do it, but
we'll have a lot more protection, we'll push people through the
courts. What I need to know, basically, is everything that's being
asked of us, where is the money coming from.
Mr. Oliver: I agree with you. And I'll take it one step
further. I think that when we get a grant that if there is a match
in that.grant that we have to identify the funding when we get it,
and that should include, cutting programs and I mean arts and
social programs included. Because the quickest area that can be
cut in this organization are thing that we give to outside
agencies. And those are areas that are going to have to be
carefully looked at, carefully reviewed, in my opinion, because
certain thing are already in place for this year they're going to
be the areas that will be most affected.as we prepare next years I
budget. .
Mr. Mays: I think that the Administrator brought up a good
point and that was one of the reasons for some of the unnamed
agencies that he just mentioned that for some of us struggled for
so long to get them included into. the sales tax package, so that we
would have a uniformed way of trying to pay for those types of
needs. And I'm going to say this hopefully for the item to come
with what the Sheriff has to deal with. To back up what she is
saying. Every bit of information that she has quoted, particularly
through your county associations, public Safety's Committee that I
chaired for two years. Basically, I was almost embarrassed at
times when I was chairing that Committee, when I ran into even
smaller populated counties with what was being done. Everything
from law enforcement down to the courts. What I would suggest, Mr.
Oliver is that maybe as we are bringing in people to talk about
pensions, to talk about every area for this government, and
obviously public safety is a very serious concern. One of the
people that I think right off the top, a neutral person, Don
Murray, is liaison council to NACO that represents the criminal
justice element with our national association. Sometimes with the
creative and preventive things you have to make a choice as to
whether or not they are going to be done so that you do save monies
down the road. I don't think that grants were ever intended to be
a long term solution to what you are doing, but if you leave it I
there and if you do nothing and if your rate of certain things are
escalating, then you will have to deal with them anyway. So why
not go ahead and try to work in programs that will eventually work
for the community. I know we have to deal with where the money has
to come from. But I would feel a whole lot better going back not
knowing that over the last three or four years if somebody asked me
did I leave "XU number of million dollars laying on the table, when
I was going out to hire those folk anyone and pay the full price
for them, I sure would have rather had them on a three year basis,
a two year basis for when the crime bill was first put in and be
able to work them into a budget so that they can make a difference
in a community.
Mr. Brigham: Just for information we are invited to the State
public Safety Committee and Court Committee in Americus, Georgia,
on the 20.
Mr. Mays: I so move that she be given permission to apply for
this grant.
Mr. Brigham: Second.
Motion carried 3-1, with Kuhlke abstaining.
A communication from the Sheriff regarding the Justice Department I
Grant award.
Sheriff Webster: Talking about wasting money, yea, there has
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been money wasted, probably one of the blggest waste is the jail
we're in today. I would like to first thank the Commissioners for
the salary increase because we were some of the lowest paid in the
state. You talking about figures, I can show them to you and show
you exactly what I am talking about. Because I went to Chatham,
Bibb and Muscogee. Muscogee County is more comparable to Richmond
County than any other county in the State. It's about 100 square
miles less, the population is around 200,000 people and the police
force on the road itself is about 125 to 150 more than Richmond
County. The salaries there are a lot more, even in Bibb and
Chatham too. I'm going to show you that we are so understaffed I
have 713 people that work for the Sheriff's Department at the
present time.
Mr. Kuhlke: The grant would give you 68 new positions.
I'm going to ask you the same questions I asked Sheryl, about the
figures. My first concern is the $1.2 million, where is the money
coming from?
Sheriff webster: As for as the grant is concerned, the grant
is for $3,621,745; over a three year period. The way we have it
figured is, it will cost the county $3,610,867; over a three year
period. The Federal grant can come up front. We can take 75% to
come up front for the first year and so much for the second and
third year. The first year would be $455,013; the second year
would be $1,422,334; the third year would be $1,713,620. I'm
telling you what the other counties have and what the people of
this community need.
Mr. Kuhlke: We're getting a $3.6 million grant, so is this a
one for one match?
Sheriff Webster:
It will almost come out to it.
Mr. Kuhlke: So over that three year period, we will spend
about $7.2 million. So, we are talking about an increase in the
Sheriff's Department budget of that amount of money over a three
year period of time. But at the end of that three year period, if
we continue on, we are talking about a $7.2 million increase to
continue on.
Mr. Oliver:
$2.4 million.
Mr. Zetterberg: What will you get for $3.6 million.
Sheriff Webster: 68 people with the fringe benefits. For the
$7 million when you put it all together you get 40 automobiles.
You get all the uniforms, the fringe benefits as far as the
deputies are concerned and the weapons.
Mr. Zetterberg: I'm a little confused about the $7 million.
This is the counties money and the grant money. But afterwards,
you have 40 vehicles, 68 people, uniforms and fringe benefits and
all of that in the out years cost you about how much every year?
Sheriff Webster: $2.4 million.
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Mr. Brigham: Is it not true that some of these we will have
to do anyway, without the grant.
At this time the Sheriff shows a map of the overall beats of
Richmond County.
Sheriff Webster:
county.
We have about 340 square miles in this
Mr. Todd: I know that in District 4 we are overwhelmed with
car thefts and drug problems, with Barton Chapel and some other
pockets. We've hired and didn't have grant money since I've been
here approximately 34 or 36 officers, I don't have the exact
numbers, and six of them may have been through the grant program.
We know that we need to hire officers. We know that we have a
deficiency if we look at Muscogee County and we look at some other
areas of comparable size. We've been on the Sheriff's Department
since the Crime Bill was signed about going for grant money instead
of just coming to the Commission for out right money from the
General Fund. Well that's what the Sheriff's Department has done.
I was not always in total agreement of the 68. I'm concerned about
the methodology of deployment, I'm sure the Sheriff is going to
have some answers there. But the suppression teams he has
mentioned, additional beat in South Richmond he's mentioned. We I
certainly hope to see some Weed & Seed folks out of that and
hopefully get some help from the Housing Authority. Also, this is
a way to fund the position that we have set here and argued about
as far as Crime Stoppers. We have to start policing smart and we
have got to put the people out there to get the job done. The
dividends in this, are that we will bring in some monies as far as
traffic tickets go, you'll bring in some money as far as other
crimes and violations go. It cost money to run the Courts, but
there will be some dividends here. And this is the way to put the
officers on the street, to train the officers and to be ready for
what's coming in the growth of crime. And to maybe get the
reduction down to the point where we can reduce man power in the
future. But now we need the man power and I'm speaking in support
of this man power. To put the officers on the street. We talked
about funding other than the dividends from this, we have a
percentage of growth every year, in the digest without increasing
taxes. We prioritize how we are going to spend those monies. We
need to make a decision whether we are going to spend this money in
law enforcement, to protect our citizens, to put adequate officers
in the street, or we are going to make the decision to spend it in
cultural arts or recreation, not to knock recreation, or public
works or in some other area. We give away through grants and
various sources of funding probably $2.5 million, if we looked at
everything, including this 73 Amendment. When I came on board we
were spending $5.2 million on Indigent Care, I believe today we are I
spending about $2.5 million. Well, apparently we didn't need to
spend $5 million on Indigent Care and a few of us raised heck about
that around this table and we pretty much cut it in half. But we
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can find the money if we have the political tuffness to do it. We
can find the money to fund the cops if we need them after this
grant runs out. If we don't need them, the we simply tell the
Sheriff, cut your department by 68 or cut it by 100. But I don't
see that happening.. I see crime growing and it's how we manage it,
is what's going to, count. And I think that we are managing crime,
we're not stopping it. And as long as we have drugs and as long as
we have entitlements being cut and the other things that the
Federal government is doing on their end, crime is going to
increase, because you are going to have that underground economy.
And I think that we need to go on and hire the men, get them
trained, get them on the street and manage crime smartly, go for
the dividends that we can get out of it and make sure that we take
those monies and pay for the officers. I support this and I
recommend that we sit down with the Sheriff and work out the
methodology of deployment. We're not talking about all the money
needed now, we're talking about 1997, we're talking about making a
commitment now, we're not talking about all the money mentioned.
Mr. J. Brigham:
going to do with the
commitment to taxes.
I would like to know what the Sheriff is
68 officers. My main concern is long term
Sheriff Webster: What we will do is reduce the territory of
some of the beats. We would probably have additional Suppression
Teams, that's probably been the most profitable think we have ever
done. We started off with a six man team and were able to put them
in high crime areas and let them work there for a while and then
move them to another area. I would also like the State Troopers to
come in here with a five man post, if they can to work the main
arteries and let my people get into the subdivisions. I would like
to have two or three more Suppression Teams. The Weed & Seed
Program is a very outstanding program. It's a program right now
that I can't participate in because I can't kill a beat. In the
high crime areas, we need a lot of men, and I plan on Suppression
Teams with it. We have between 15 and 20 bad areas.
Mr. Oliver:
Seed.
The 68 includes the 6 new officers for Weed &
Sheriff Webster: That would be, because, Mr. Randy, you and
I have talked and I had a four man grant that I was talking about
giving you three of those. If we get these 68 then I can take
three more out of that. We had two, we had one in Barton Village
where we had the Federal government. My people were working, the
GBI and I think there was a probation officer working. Weed & Seed
is a program that will work, but they are not going to pay you
until after you perform. This is something that we have to do
first as far as Weed & Seed is concerned. We have to produce, then
we get paid back for it.
Mr. J. Brigham: How many additional beats are you going to
create and how many additional Suppression Teams out of the 68?
Sheriff Webster: When you figure how many suppression teams I
you can come up with, which it usually takes six men on each
Suppression Team and maybe a Sergeant. I'm going to work it the
best I see fit. But I intend to reduce the size of South Augusta
and reduce the size of some other areas. I have people that work
out there every day drawing up maps of the high crime areas.
Mr. J. Brigham: Do you project half the people going into the
beat projections, half of them going into Suppression Teams?
Sheriff Webster: It will be more than half.
Mr. J. Brigham: 75% going into beats and 25% of them going
into Suppression.
Sheriff Webster: I'll say 40 out of the 68.
Mr. Brigham: So, you'll get six new beats, is that basically
what you are telling us?
Sheriff Webster: No, you can't add it that way. The Sheriff
gives a map display.
Mr. Kuhlke: What is your timing on responding to this grant?
Sheriff Webster: At this time it will be soon responding to I
it. But at the present time you all have given me 75 people to go
to work in the jail this year, that doesn't leave anybody out on
the streets to protect the people. And we're talking about 650
people somewhere in that neighbor of people in the jail that we are
putting all those people to go to work with. You have almost as
many people working to protect those prisoners as you have out on
the road. But, we just got to have some more man power to go out
with.
Mr. Kuhlke: The reason I asked you about the timing is that,
from my standpoint I would like to see what your program is, if you
are successful in getting the grant. I would also like, just for
my own education some comparisons of how we stack up with other
communities in this state. I would also like something in writing
from the Department of Finance in this County that if we approve
this grant, they know where that money is. I want them to tell me
that we have the money to match this grant. I'm tired or getting
it verbally, I want it in writing.
Sheriff Webster: I was talking about the 75 people that went
to the jail. I'm right in the present of hiring 30 of them. Then
I got to turn around and hire 29. As far as hiring any people it
takes time to train him. He has to go to a nine week certification
school, he has to be put in an automobile with another driver and
that driver will tell us when he thinks he is capable of being a I
good Sheriff and putting him in an automobile by himself.
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Mr. Kuhlke: It is unreasonable to say that within a thirty
day period of time that every question that I have asked could be
answered, and that from a standpoint of a formal approval of this
Commission, if that approval is given within thirty days, is that
going to hamper you? I ask these questions because this is an
important issue to this community and to your department. But in
my opinion, for this body to approve a participation in this grant
today is irresponsible, without some background information.
Sheriff webster: I would have to check that, at this point I
don't know.
Mr. Beard: We all know the needs of this community.' And I
think that we know that the safety of our citizens comes first.
But, I think that what I'm hearing is that all of the Commissioners
want this, but then we have to get into, as far as I'm concerned is
how it is going to be utilized. First of all, where is the money
coming from. After the three years what type of financial status
will we be in. And right now, it appears to me that the, and I'll
probably go along with this, but the problem is how are those
people going to be utilized. In my district, I go to meetings and
hear senior citizens complaining about the drug problems. The
Sheriff and the Commissioners will have to be accountable for this.
If this grant comes through, and we provide the manpower, then I
think we all will have to see some results.
Mr. Kuhlke: I like to make a motion that we ask the Sheriff
to revisit us at our next Public Safety Committee meeting. That he
provide us with his program for the use of these funds. That he
gives us some information in regards to other communities, whether
it's good or bad. And that we get a report from the Director of
Finance on how these funds can be applied or can be made available
to apply for this grant and identify the funding sources. And that
at that point we take an action to carry it back to the Commission.
Mr. Oliver: One thing Commissioner Kuhlke perhaps add to
that, I would like to see if the Sheriff would put in there what
percentage of reduction in crime he would anticipate for the
additional 68 Deputies.
Mr. Kuhlke: Yes, I will accept the amendment.
Mr. Zetterberg: Second.
Mr. Mays: I would like to make a substitute motion. I agree
with everything that's in Bill's motion, but I think that we need
to direct the Sheriff, the Finance Department and the
Administrator, to proceed with working on putting this grant
together, bring it back to us. The obvious concern is that we will
have to have some additional officers. Also, that we direct the
Administrator to facilitate a seminar, with Jerry Griffin of ACCG
and NACo.
Mr. Brigham: I'll second the motion.
Mr. Chairman: All in favor of the substitute motion, 2-2.
Motion fails with Kuhlke and Zetterberg voting no.
Mr. Chairman: Those in favor of the original motion, 2-2.
Motion fails with Brigham and Mays voting no.
With no further business to discuss, the meeting was adjourned.
Lena J. Bonner
Clerk of Commission
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