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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCommission Meeting May 1, 2007 REGULAR MEETING COMMISSION CHAMBER May 1, 2007 Augusta Richmond County Commission convened at 2:00 p.m., May 1, 2007, the Hon. Deke Copenhaver, Mayor, presiding. PRESENT: Hons. Holland, Smith, Harper, Grantham, Hatney, Beard, Williams, Cheek, Bowles and Brigham, members of Augusta Richmond County Commission. The invocation was given by the Reverend John Lockhart, Fellowship Baptist Church. The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of American was recited. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, sir. We need all the prayers we can get. Let’s move on to the delegations, Madame Clerk. The Clerk: DELEGATIONS A. Mr. Willie Jones and Bob Wilson, Walton Options for Independent Living. RE: Request for in-kind services (city bus) to support Community Fair June 14, 2007. Mr. Jones: Yes, Mr. Mayor and Pro Tem and the commissioners. We are here today; my name is Willie Lee Jones and I live at 1135 Sadie Drive in Augusta, Georgia. We are here, Walton Options for Independent Living and we are here to express from this committee concerning a couple things. And it’s a community activity for the community together we stand and it’s all centered around this community for people with disabilities and it’s going be at Julian Smith Casino. And Mr. Mayor and the commissioners, Pro Tem Madame, you got that information before you. And we’re asking for a couple vans. These vans will be stationed at the --- facility and also will be transporting people with disabilities who are in wheel chairs to come to this great event and I know many of you got your schedules pretty busy and even the, the citizens you can even make some type of change and come up and join us because there’s going to be a lot of activities and to get to know people with disabilities and see forty, it was thirty-two years ago or thirty-three years ago I did not even realize that I was going to be blind but now I’m blind and so I’m here to invite, Walton Options is here to invite these citizens of Augusta to come and enjoy some of the activities. It’s from eleven to four o’clock. So this is the request. Two vans and um, so that these people can be transported and we really would appreciate that if you can us three. (LAUGHTER) Thank you. Oh, Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Yes, sir. How’s your father doing, I forgot to ask you about that. Mr. Mayor: I was waiting for you to. He’s doing okay but I appreciate you asking. Mr. Jones: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Yes, sir. 1 Mr. Jones: No hard feelings. I tried to get Mr. Mayor to hit a golf ball blindfolded so he ended walking away with one of the commissioners and so Mr. Calvin Holland came out and he took that challenge. So next time, I’m inviting all of you to come and play golf with the blind community. Mr. Mayor: I didn’t realize you were going to blindfold me. I’d have taken that. I just didn’t want to look like a fool swinging without a blindfold. (LAUGHTER) Mr. Jones: All you need to do is just close you eyes. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Jones: Thank you so much now. Mr. Mayor: All righty. Thank you. Mr. Russell, do we have any transportation available to honor that request? Mr. Russell: It’s my understanding we’ve helped in the past. It’s our obligation to provide transportation to people that are, who have physical challenges like that and if they did not receive the special transportation they would be able to call and make reservations and receive the transportation. I’d think it would be in our best interests to go ahead and support this by assigning a couple of vans to do that and taking care of this request. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Can I get a motion to that effect? Mr. Bowles: So moved. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor: We have a motion and a second. Is there any further discussion? Commissioners will now vote by the usual sign. The Clerk: Mr. Cheek? Mr. Cheek: I mashed it. Where’s our new voting system? Motion carries 10-0. Mr. Mayor: Okay, Madame Clerk, on to the consent agenda. The Clerk: Yes, sir. The consent agenda consists of Items 1-5. Items 1-5. Mr. Cheek: Um? Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Cheek. 2 Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, in the interest of time I would just like to make a comment concerning appointments to these boards and authorities. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Cheek: I’d just like to say in respect to the Canal Authority or any other board and I respect the right of each commissioner to appoint a person to represent them and their districts on these boards. But in the case of the Canal Authority we’re we had such and still do have such tremendous physical plant engineering issues and the board primarily is, was oblivious to the problems of the entity that they were charged with protecting. I’m very concerned about appointing people to the boards or reappointing them to these boards and authorities over which we have very little jurisdiction that have not been nor will they take an interest in making sure that we preserve these entities or that we make them profitable or run as well oiled machines. And that is my concern, was my concern in the past. I will relinquish that concern this day having made that a note that I don’t want people on the Canal Authority that have never been on the canal or walked the towpath. They don’t have concerns about it. I don’t want people on the Coliseum Authority that don’t think it should make a profit or at least break even. I don’t want people on the Aviation Authority that don’t care about airplanes and it’s time that we reign in a lot of these boards and hold them accountable for making the things that they have jurisdiction over with work well. And in a lot of cases these are people that come and sit on boards that have been there for a long time and it’s time to get some new blood on a lot of the boards. With that I have no problem with, to the commissioner of District 1 at this point and will support it. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Are there any additions to the consent agenda? Commissioner Grantham. Mr. Grantham: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I’d like to offer item no. 6 for consent. I understand that the applicant is here and that all rules and regulations have been approved by the Sheriff’s Department. And that we would offer that one. And also item number seven which is under Public Services. I realize we’re asking for a draft request. I feel like that they have enough information to go out with that proposal and bring us back the recommendation in regards to advertising on the buses. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Any further additions to the consent agenda? Anybody want to add eighteen? Commissioner Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Eighteen, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Brigham: Nineteen, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Smith, you had your hand up. Did you have another addition? Mr. Smith: No, that was eighteen. 3 Mr. Mayor: Any further additions to? Reverend Hatney. Mr. Hatney: Number nineteen says to add the President or his designee of the Board of Education to as an Ex-Officio member to Augusta Richmond County Planning Commission. I’m not understanding that due to the fact that these are two distinct governments and to be and Ex- Officio I was under the impression that you needed to be elected in the government this entity is overseen by. I think we just make somebody else that’s official and not a part of the government. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Smith. Mr. Smith: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I’d like to add number thirteen to the consent. Mr. Hatney: You can’t put twenty on there now. I don’t think we can do that. Mr. Mayor: Twenty’s not on there. Mr. Hatney: Number nineteen, I don’t think we can do that. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Jessup, do you have a legal opinion on number nineteen? Mr. Jessup: Before I would give one, your honor, I’d like to ask Commissioner Brigham to explain his endorsement of this --- Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Brigham. Mr. Brigham: Mr. Mayor, we’ve talked for a number of years about having a representative from the School Board on the Planning and Zoning Commission. I’ve served on the Planning and Zoning Commission. I know that it would be very helpful as to the master plan of the county to know the thoughts of the school board since they affect so many different decisions that are done planning wise to participate in the planning process. I believe that an Ex- Officio member is a member that’s there by virtue of their position and therefore I would think it would be appropriate to appoint the school board President or his designee if he don’t want to attend a Planning and Zoning --- as a planning commissioner. And that was the thought pattern. We’ve talked about this when we sat and met with the School Board at their meeting the month before last. I think it would be a good planning decision for this community. Mr. Hatney: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Okay. Commissioner Hatney. Mr. Hatney: I agree with Mr. Brigham by virtue of his position but in the same government that you’re going to make an Ex-Officio of, not from another government. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Williams. 4 Mr. Williams: I’m trying to wait till to see that y’all get that clear, Mr. Mayor. I don’t want to overload the circuit here with another but I got an issue with Item 13. I didn’t want to add it to the consent because there’s some discussion we need to have with Item 13. But if y’all got that one straight I want to make sure that Item 13 is being opposed so we can not add it to the consent. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Commissioner Cheek. Mr. Cheek: I was just going to speak to Item 19. The impetus for this is Sue Reynolds where we had a half million dollars worth of additional emergency sewer we had to add. McBean Elementary which we had the school board build without any discussion between us and them and while it’s important to maintain the sovereignty of the two governing bodies which the charters do, appointing people to serve together in the planning of this government only makes sense and saves taxpayer’s money in that we may be able to build schools near existing infrastructure. Putting them on as Ex-Officio members also allows them an in to legal meetings where they can discuss potential locations without jeopardizing real estate costs and other things. So I for one find it makes perfect sense and is progressive in nature. Mr. Mayor: Okay, well, we will come back to that item, as it does not have unanimous consent to go on the consent agenda. Madame Clerk, actually now we’ll go to are there any items to be pulled for discussion? Okay, hearing none, Madame Clerk --- Mr. Williams: Could you read those --- Mr. Mayor: Commissioner I was about to ask for that. Could you please read back the items that were added to? The Clerk: Okay. The consent agenda consists of Items 1-5 with the addition of Item 6 and Item 18. Mr. Mayor: And seven. The Clerk: And Item 7. For the benefit of any objectors to our alcohol petition I call your attention to item 6, which is a request for a retail package Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with Spring Express located at 3150 Wrightsboro Road. Are there any objectors to that alcohol petition? Mr. Jessup: None noted. The Clerk: Our consent agenda items 1-5 with the addition of Item 6, 7 and 18. Mr. Mayor: Can I get a motion to approve? Ms. Beard: So moved. Mr. Cheek: Second. 5 CONSENT AGENDA PLANNING 1. ZA-R-179 – A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to APPROVE a petition to consider an amendment to the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County which would amend Section 35 of the Ordinance entitled “Amendments to this Ordinance” by bringing it into conformance with the Georgia Zoning Procedure Law (OCGA 36-66) and other laws. (Approved by the Augusta Commission April 17, 2007 – second reading) PETITIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS 2. Motion to approve the minutes of the regular meeting of the Augusta Commission held April 17, 2007. APPOINTMENTS 3. Motion to approve the reappointment of Janice Jenkins to the ARC Coliseum Authority representing District 5. 4. Motion to approve the appointment of Earnestine Howard to the Augusta Canal Authority representing District 1. 5. Motion to reappoint Richard Isdell to the Coliseum Authority representing District 7. PUBLIC SERVICES 6. New Application: A.N. 07-21: A request by Ritaben S. Patel for a retail package Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with Spring Express located at 3150 Wrightsboro Rd. District 5. Super District 9. 7. Motion to review a draft Request for Proposals (RFP) for Bus Advertising for three years with two (2) year optional extension. PETITIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS 18. Motion to approve the purchase of tickets to annual Mayor’s Prayer Breakfast Thursday, May 3, 2007. Mr. Mayor: We have a motion and a second. If there’s no further discussion commissioners will now vote by the usual sign. Motion carries 10-0. [Items 1-7, Item 18] The Clerk: Item 8. Is that where we’re proceeding to, Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Yes, ma’am, we’ll go to Item 8 first. The Clerk: ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES 6 8. Appoint Gaynell Bonner as coordinator of the community and faith based efforts to organize repeat offender program in coordination with church and other community based ministries and programs. (Requested by Mayor Pro Tem Betty Beard) Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, I understand the nature of what we’re trying to do here. I did have a call from a young lady who used to minister this program in the Mayor’s office some years ago and asked the question of why was it not put out to the public basically for people to apply for the position. That is my only concern with the position that it hasn’t been publicized at all and I understand Ms. Bonner’s position and eager to help. I know she’ll do a good job but there is some concern within the public that this position has not been posted for people to apply. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Beard. Ms. Beard: Mr. Mayor, I believe we all know why this is happening and now it’s just up to us to make a decision in reference to whether or not we feel it would be in the best interest of our government to do it. Mr. Mayor: Okay, can I get a motion either way on this? Ms. Beard: I so move. Mr. Mayor: We have a motion. Is there a second? Mr. Grantham: Second. Mr. Mayor: We have a motion and a second. Is there any further discussion? If there’s no further discussion commissioners will now vote by the usual sign. Mr. Williams, Mr. Harper, Mr. Cheek and Mr. Holland vote No. Mr. Hatney abstains. Motion fails 5-4-1. Ms. Beard: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Beard. Ms. Beard: I’d like to say one thing. I want the commissioners to know I have tried two or three times to get this through and I will not subject them to this again. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, ma’am. Madame Clerk, agenda item 9 and agenda item 12 are related so maybe we can them together. The Clerk: 7 ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES 9. Motion to approve petition to merge the 1998 Pension Plan, the 1977 Pension Plan, the GMEBS Pension Plan, Employees with no pension plan and submit a 180 day notice of cancellation to GEBCorp/Nationwide. (Requested by Commissioner Marion Williams) FINANCE 12. Approve hiring an independent auditor to determine the cost of the proposed merger of certain pension plans. (Requested by Commissioner Jerry Brigham. Mr. Mayor: Okay, we’ll take nine first and then we’ll go to twelve. Is there any discussion? Reverend Hatney. Mr. Hatney: My concern last week was the last time we discussed this was that I had no problem with the proposed merger process being activated due to the fact that our employees deserve the very best that we can afford them but my concern at that juncture there were no health or insurance recommendations coming forth with that and due to the fact that the retirement age is moving from 65 to 67 and eventually to 70 years old, if you retired at age 60 ten years from now and you don’t have any insurance it’s going to be ten years before you can get on Medicare and you could be making an awesome retirement monthly. If you don’t have no healthcare you’re going to be in trouble and that’s my concern that healthcare be made a part of this whole argument. And I think that Mr. Burns has some information --- Mr. Mayor: Mr. Burns. Mr. Burns: Yes. I have a Chuck Carr from Southern Actuarial Services Company. He’s here today and he’s going to give you a little information about his review of the plan. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Carr, if you could state your name and address for the record please. Mr. Carr: Yes, do you want the business address or home address. Either one. Mr. Mayor: Which ever you prefer. Mr. Carr: Okay. My name is Chuck Carr. I’m a consulting actuary with Southern Actuarial Services Company in Atlanta. We’re located at 3069 Amwiler Road. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Carr: I was, I just came on the scene just about a week and a half ago. I got a co-call from Mr. Burns and he explained that I guess for the last several months at least that um, the city had looking at the possibility of merging three different pension plans and he sent me some background information. I also got some information from the current actuary for, what was formerly I guess the City of Augusta Plan that’s administered by GMA. So I haven’t, I’ve only been, I looked at the stuff just a few days ago and I didn’t get a lot of detailed information. What I did not do was, I didn’t get participant data, employee data that kind of thing so I have not done what an actuary might typically do which is to actually go and run what we call an evaluation 8 and so forth. What I did was and what I was asked to do is really just to provide an independent eye, an independent review of what had been done. So I looked at the materials, they consisted of the last years actuarial report for the old city plan that, I looked at that because that, those are the assumptions that were used to try to come up with a cost of this merged plan. I also reviewed some of the handouts that have been put together that have some of the cost numbers there involved. For the merged plan looking at the benefits under the different, the separate programs and then what the merged benefits would be. And then finally I was given a copy of just a brief. It’s a two or three page letter that was prepared by a company called Buck Consultants in Atlanta and this, everything else that I looked at that concerned pension only. This particular letter concerned the retiree medical benefits and what the estimated costs and the letter was very broad I think it was just, it wasn’t meant to be a detailed analysis but it was sort of a broad stroke of just to come up with some kind of a cost range for what the city might face as far as retiree medical costs especially under the new accounting standard GASB45 that will be applicable shortly. So this, so that’s the material I looked at. I really tried to just look at the assumptions that were used to see if they were reasonable in my opinion and also I wanted become familiar enough with what was going on so that I could answer questions if any of the commissioners in particular had any concerns or questions as far as what the merger means to different groups. One of the things that I wanted to point out is in coming into this as an independent party, being an actuary with about 25 years of experience I work exclusively with pension funds around the southeast, I think it’s important that you try to decide what it is you’re trying to accomplish with this merger. And I’m not here today to be pro-merge or against merging the plans I’m just trying to lay out the argument in a way that maybe will help all of you make a decision. I think the main impetus for doing this is probably employee retention and trying to upgrade the level of benefits that are being provided to the employees. It’s my understanding that anyone hired essentially in the last, I think ten years or so um, really does not get a pension per se, at least not what we would a pension in the actuarial business they receive um, what’s called, they participate in a defined contribution plan which is very much similar to a 401K type plan. So they have an individual account. The city contribution to that I believe is limited to about 2% of pay which is um, that type of an approach to retirement is not even remotely, it doesn’t begin to provide a sufficient retirement income for those folks. That’s not to say it may not be the intent of the city to try to provide a meaningful retirement to them but a 2% city contribution is not going, it’s going to get them to the point where they can retire. Um, the other two plans which cover essentially grandfathered employees prior to the merger of Augusta and Richmond County, one of them was an old county plan one of them was the former city plan. Those plans are what we call Defined Benefit plans. They are, they are traditional plans that are designed to pay a monthly pension or monthly annuity from the point of retirement for life and they usually will have some options where the participant can also protect their spouse for example if they choose to do that. Um, traditional pension plans while they’re not um, they’re less and less popular out there in the corporate world uh, largely because they are perceived to be very expensive um, nevertheless the traditional pension funds, these defined benefit plans are really still the only meaningful way to provide and employee with a retirement benefit. So um, one of the things I was just going to point out is that, and I don’t know whether you retention, employee retention issues. I don’t know whether you have issues with, with trying to attract the type of employee or the level of employee that you want but I would argue that, that the way it is right now, and I serve as the actuary for the two Macon plans, I’m also the actuary for two of three city of Atlanta plans which are very large pension funds. Quite a bit larger than the ones we’re 9 talking about here. And I also serve uh, for whatever it’s worth about sixty or seventy other cities around the Southeast as the actuary. The program that you have right now, at least for new hires really is not competitive with some of these other, what these other cities are doing and so if that’s an issue for you than I think the merger is something that you probably ought to take a look at. What the merger’s going to do is in essence as I understand it, and my information again is limited. Go ahead. Mr. Mayor: I was just going to say we, and I should’ve alerted you beforehand. We give five-minute time frames. Mr. Carr: Okay, I’m here, I’m a paid consultant. I’m here at your behest if, however, you want to use me. Mr. Mayor: Okay and so I just think that the best thing to do would be to open it up for any questions if the commission -- Mr. Carr: That would be fine. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Bowles. Mr. Bowles: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. My first concern is that we’re still looking at the old ’98 plan and not improving the ’98 plan. My second concern is uh, Mr. Carr did manage Buck Consultants Atlanta office for I believe four or five years. Mr. Carr: A team. Not the whole office. Mr. Bowles: Right. I don’t think this is technically an independent study. I still think that we’re staying within the same group of people that are attracted to pension plans rather than defined contribution plans. Mr. Carr: If I could just --- Mr. Mayor: Yes, sir. Mr. Carr: --- quick comment on that. There are very few pension actuaries in the country. There are very few in the Southeast. There are so few we all know each other. We all have probably worked together uh, with each other at some point in time. Um it is an extremely small profession so um, the only way realistically that you’re going to get someone to review this, an actuary to review, and I think you need an actuary to review this type of a situation is to literally go outside of this part of the country and go off to Washington, New York, Chicago or somewhere because if you hire any actuary in this part of the world we all are going, we’re certainly going to know each other by reputation if nothing else. But it’s very likely that we will have worked together. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Cheek. 10 Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, while I have reservations about the medical portion and adding a medical benefit at this time I think that’s something that’s certainly has had major impacts on General Motors and Ford, Boeing and every other major corporation and that deserves further study. Mr. Mayor, I elected to protect the people and to serve the people of Augusta-Richmond County. The calls have come in from elected officials, other elected officials constitutional officers that deal with the public safety of this city and they are telling me that those who, we are losing a large number of people. Turnover is a problem and $25,000 a pop per year for training as an average for firefighters and for public safety personnel is indeed as issue to this city. It’s an unseen cost that we keep incurring when we lose good people. The other voices I hear are from those who rush in to places that are on fire or where there’s gunfire or violence where the rest of us would be rushing out and the need to protect them and their families in their golden years. So in the balance of things while we continue to discuss, study and defer I for one am in favor of combining these plans. It’ll be the first major step taken towards consolidation since this government has begun and then work towards any additional other benefits that we may want to add or may not. But it is time to move forward with the consolidation of these plans and have a tool that we can use to attract new people, help those under the ’77 and ’98 and other plans that are substandard as compared to others, certainly in our surrounding municipalities --- Mr. Mayor: Okay. . But I will make a motion that we Mr. Cheek: --- and throughout the Southeast approve and move forward with combining these plans. Mr. Mayor: There’s a motion. Is there a second? Mr. Williams: Second. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Williams. Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I’ve got one question and I appreciate Mr. Cheeks’ comments cause I agree that we need to do something. We’ve been talking all this time about merging and coming together coming up with a plan but there’s been some intentionally wrong information to be given out and I want to clarify it right here and right now so that we won’t be misled. It’s been told to some of the 49 pensioners that we was looking at merging their plan in with this. So I need to get that clarified on record right here and now so that we won’t have no misunderstanding that uh, that people been told there was a motion made and brought to this board that we were going to merge the 49 pension plan with this plan we’re talking about right now so, Mr. Burns, I guess you’d be the best person to answer that. Is that true or not? Mr. Burns: That’s not true. Mr. Williams: Okay, so that was a lie that was told. Okay, we got that straight. The next thing is that if we’re going to do something it’s time to do it and quit playing around with it. Now we done had this on the table for or five times we’ve done everything that we can do we 11 know it’s a work in progress, Commissioner Cheek brought that up, the insurance is very important the other aspect of this plan is going to be defined as we go along but we’ve got to get off center. And I urge the commissioners understand what we’re trying to do is to go ahead to get this in progress so we can get along and get those people that’s taking care of this city, the people that are working hard for this city. They’re risking their lives everyday and then they end up leaving this community with little or nothing, most of all nothing, and maybe very little but we need to put that plan in place so Mr. Mayor, that’s my comment. But I want to make sure the 49 pensioners know. Oscar, I appreciate your phone call man that helped me a lot. It got me to looking at some stuff. But when you get misled like that call me again. We’ll get it straight. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Commissioner Brigham. Mr. Brigham: Mr. Mayor, does Mr. Carr realize that we had a voluntary plan in 1997 when the ’98 plan was proposed and that most of our employees were not a member of any pension plan? Mr. Bowles: That’s not part of the information. Mr. Brigham: I didn’t think it would’ve been part of the information that you were given. My real concern is the future healthcare costs of the retirees. As you mentioned we’re subject to the GASB45 rule. We have had no, none whatever explanation of the future costs of GASB45 to this government. We could not make a decision on providing healthcare to a whole new class of retirees until we know what it’s going to cost us for the ones we’ve got now. I believe in the city of making it somewhere around $80 million dollars. Is that correct? Mr. Carr: I’m the one that’s going to be doing the GASB45 study. We have not started that yet. They’ll be sending me data this summer. Mr. Brigham: Well, I believe there was an editorial to that effect --- Mr. Carr: I don’t know what the newspapers have written but I’m telling you as the actuary of the City of Macon that no studies have been done. Mr. Brigham: What my hang up with this plan has been the whole time is until we can get a ruling on what the GASB45 is going to cost us I think we’ve had a very limited cash situation where we can fund pension plans. We made available the best plan that we could make available with the funds that we had. It’s not a good plan and I understand that. And it can be a better plan but that’s going to take this commission to make it a better plan. And when we get all said and done all these plans are not going to go away cause if the participant is already in a plan they can stay in that plan, is my understanding of the state law. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Holland: Mr. Mayor? 12 Mr. Mayor: Okay. Commissioner Grantham and then Commissioner Holland. He had his hand up earlier. Mr. Grantham: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And I’m going to follow-up on Commissioner Brigham cause that’s one of the questions I’ve been asking all along and even at the meetings that I’ve had to try to find some information from Mr. Burns as well as others and that is, the cost of this health insurance. It’s not the plans and I think we all agreed and came to a conclusion that we need to put a better plan in place for our employees. Along with that as of this date since February when I had my first meeting I’ve not seen any cost analysis in regards to health insurance. The only thing I have seen presented to me was it’s going to cost you approximately $5 million dollars a year. That was the comments made with our people that presented the program to us two meetings ago. As of this date I’ve not seen any additional information regarding health insurance or what the cost is going to be to this government to provide for those people in need. That’s what we need to look at. I’m not worried about these 28 and 29 and 30 year old people today. That’s going to come for them but if these people are going to be retiring in the next five, ten and fifteen years such as Commissioner Hatney related to, they’re going to need health insurance and we don’t have a way for them to get it with some participation costs involved then we’re not treating them fairly and until I can see a cost, how can a business be run on just a shirttail when you’re looking at the future costs and you don’t know what it’s going to be. If you just give me a guesstimated cost I’d have something to go on and at least vote for and present to these people. Or if these people want to come in and say, we don’t want insurance don’t give us any insurance I’ll take what you’re giving me in the plan today, I’ll vote for it right this minute. But I cannot do that to these people. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Grantham: And they don’t want it. They think they want it but they don’t want it. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Holland. Mr. Holland: First off, Mr. Mayor, let’s ask Mr. Burns. Can you respond to what Mr. Grantham has just cited and then I’ll respond after you. Mr. Burns: There’s no way to give an exact cost of health insurance because we can’t predict what health insurance will cost us next year. I mean there’s no one that can give you an exact cost, they won’t be able to give you an exact cost next year. Mr. Grantham: I understand that but people, excuse me, Mr. Mayor --- Mr. Mayor: No, no, Mr. Grantham. Mr. Holland has been recognized. Mr. Grantham: I apologize, Mr. Holland. Mr. Holland: You finished? Mr. Mayor, we’ve had this through the Administrative Services for some time. This has been passed, we’ve voted on it and we passed this through. And it appears that every time it comes before the full commission we bogged down with this. 13 Now I’m looking at these people out here and they’re very intelligent people and they know what they want. They need to have the opportunity to make a, have an option to make a choice of the kind of insurance that they want. We need to stop playing around with this particular insurance plan and go ahead and approve this and give these people an opportunity to have a plan that they will have for the rest of their lives and while they’re working. So we just keep playing around with this and we get bogged down and it’s not fair to these employees. Every day goes by a week goes by a month goes by then another year goes by and then we’re still discussing the same thing. And from my understanding we’ve been discussing this prior to me and even and some of us coming on the commission. So it’s time to drop this and let’s give these people an opportunity to get some insurance so they can be, so then can feel good about working and feel good about coming to work. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Commissioner Hatney. Mr. Hatney: One question, Mr. uh, even if this is passed today that does not mean that the health portion won’t still be continuing to work to bring into fruition the complete plan. Mr. Burns: Right, the health insurance is a part of this plan. Mr. Hatney: Even at that, even if they had health insurance it would be two different, two different mechanisms then you’ll go on to one fat benefit. Mr. Burns: Right. Mr. Hatney: So, Mr. Mayor, the other thing that concerns me is that I’m sure we take this as a work in process I don’t have no problem with that but the other thing that does concern me is that since I’ve been on this government I’ve noticed that whatever this government wants to fund they fund. And with that, Mr. Mayor, I call for the question. Mr. Mayor: Okay. We have a, the question’s been called for. We have a motion and a second. Mr. Hatney: Can you read the motion back again? Mr. Mayor: What’s that? Mr. Hatney: Could you read the motion back again so we’ll know exactly what we’re voting for? Mr. Mayor: The motion is to approve. Mr. Hatney: To approve, okay. Mr. Mayor: Okay, the question has been called for. Mr. Bowles: Mr. Mayor, point of personal privilege. 14 Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Bowles. Mr. Bowles: An employee from the Utilities Department was supposed to speak regarding this subject and has not been recognized. I request that he be recognized. Mr. Mayor: In the interest of equal time I will recognize this employee. Where --- Mr. Hatney: Is he on the agenda? Mr. Mayor: No, but --- Mr. Hatney: (INAUDIBLE) Mr. Mayor: No, but neither was this gentleman either. And in interest of equal time he was not on the agenda as well. Mr. Hatney: But he’s explaining what was on the agenda. Mr. Mayor: Well --- Mr. Bowles: He’s going to explain it from the employee’s perspective if that’s all right. Mr. Mayor: Well, but the Chair does have the option of recognizing people to speak to an agenda item. So just in all fairness and equal time. Yes, sir. Mr. Hatney: I didn’t think you could do that after the question was called for. I didn’t know you could do that. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Jessup, is that? Mr. Jessup: (INAUDIBLE) Mr. Mayor: Okay. Okay. Sir, if you could --- Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor, can I get a ruling from the Attorney again? I think he said you, you, what does the ruling say, Mr. Mayor? That’s what I want to know from the Attorney. Mr. Mayor: I asked Mr. Jessup, he said --- Mr. Williams: If the question’s been called, Mr. Jessup, what does the ruling --- Mr. Mayor: I have not recognized you, Commissioner Williams. I have requested an opinion from the Attorney. He has stated that I am correct in the fact that I can call somebody to speak to the agenda item. And look, the question’s been called for. I’m going to hear from this gentleman and then we’re going to take the vote. 15 Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: The question’s been called for. I’m recognizing this gentleman and after he’s done speaking we’re going to take the vote. Mr. Thies: Mr. Mayor, Ms. Pro Tem, Commissioners. My name is Russell Thies. I’m a ’98 Plan member and a committed member of the ’98 plan. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. Last Thursday a meeting was held among the members of the ’98 Plan. In that meeting the members nominated and selected me along with ten other individuals to serve on the first ’98 Plan committee. Contrary to the views expressed during the last commission meeting there are many employees that have serious concerns regarding the current plan proposal in the newly formed ’98 Plan committee which we unanimously opposed as well. Most of the ’98 members generally trust that the planners of the current proposal are acting in the best interest of the ’98 members. This trust should not be exploited for the betterment of members in other plans. However this is precisely what could happen for many who do not proactively opt out of this proposal. Most are unaware that their contribution will increase from 4% to 6% within a year of the plans enactment and that it could go as high as 7½% depending on plan costs. Of those that are aware of this most assume that it is there to help fund the health care costs for all employees however, this is not the case. There is no guarantee to provide health care for the members, the ’98 members in the proposal even though the GMEBS and the ’77 members will have this benefit and even though that the ’98 members will be paying the same amount into the plan. As including healthcare very few of the ’98 Plan will benefit under this proposal. Fewer than the ’98 members know the high level of un-funded liability associated with the GMEBS and the ’77 Plan. There is no accurate figure on that liability because an individual actuarial analysis has not been performed on the city’s plans. Considering the funding concerns with the GMEBS and ’77 Plans and the burden this proposal could place on the ’98 members we request that you not approve the current proposal. We request an independent actuarial analysis on all of the city’s plans in order to obtain a good estimate of the city’s liability. We are confident that the results of this analysis will show that the ’98 members could currently receive only 2% of payroll funding are now being asked to fund the retirement of older workers which the city has already committed to funding between 10-15% of payroll. We recognize that there are serious funding problems for the GMEBS and ’77 Plans however this problem has been 25- 30 years in the making. In shifting this problem and expanding it to the younger workers is not the answer. Please do not approve the current proposal and obtain an independent analysis on all of the plans so that you can make uniformed decisions today or eventually when it’s taken up. Thank you very much. Mr. Mayor: I’d --- Mr. Hatney: If you could, yeah. Mr. Williams: Excuse me, Mr. Mayor, I’ve got some questions. Mr. Mayor: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 16 Mr. Hatney: Sir? Young man? Mr. Thies: Yes, sir. Mr. Hatney: You mentioned that you had a meeting last week. Mr. Thies: It was last Thursday. Mr. Hatney: Were any commissioners there? Mr. Thies: There were two that I know of. Mr. Hatney: Did you invite them? How did they get there? Mr. Thies: They were aware of the meeting. Mr. Hatney: How did they get aware of it? Mr. Thies: I made them aware of it. Mr. Hatney: Why you didn’t you invite nobody else? Mr. Thies: Because basically --- Mr. Hatney: Make up your mind. If you want me to work with something and you’re going to invite selected individuals but want me to hear you? Something’s wrong with that. Mr. Thies: I understand, Commissioner. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Williams. No, hey, hey! Did you have a question for the speaker? Mr. Williams: Yes, I got a question for the speaker and I want one from the Attorney. I’d like to have a, I’d like to see the ruling on the, the call of the question that says that after the call has been made that you could proceed. I think it’s a call for time to vote to see if anything. My question to the young man that’s standing here who’s in the ’98 Plan was anybody allowed to speak at that meeting that was not for the plan. Mr. Thies: No, the purpose of the plan was --- Mr. Williams: I just want to know, did anybody have the opportunity to speak who was not in favor of the plan since you spoke and or you were in favor. Was anybody else to speak that was not in favor? Yes or no. Mr. Thies: There were, yes. 17 Mr. Williams: They did speak. Mr. Thies: Yes, there were people who came up and said they could not pick a position for or against. Mr. Williams: I want to know, Mr. Mayor, were there anyone who was there who spoke on behalf of the support of the plan like he spoke against the plan. That’s a simple yes or no. Mr. Thies: No. Mr. Williams: Okay. Mr. Mayor: Okay. This issue has been debated. The question has been called for. Everybody’s been given ample time to speak to this issue. Commissioners will now vote by the usual sign of voting. Mr. Brigham: I want a roll call vote. Mr. Mayor: I had already called for the vote prior to --- Mr. Brigham: Sorry, it’s my privilege. Mr. Mayor: When the vote has already been called for, a request can be made to call for a vote, a roll call vote after the vote has been called for I believe. Mr. Brigham: I believe the charter says anybody can call for a roll call vote at any time. Mr. Cheek: Prior to the question being called --- Mr. Hatney: You can’t do it after the question’s been called. Mr. Cheek: I believe the names, Mr. Mayor, of everybody that voted --- Mr. Mayor: Okay! (Gavel) Everybody, I’m getting very tired of this. Wait to be recognized to speak and the Chair rules if the Attorney is in conjunction with this. The question was called for, the vote was called for and the vote was taken. Next agenda item, please. The Clerk: Let me make the vote a part of the record. Mr. Brigham, Mr. Bowles, Mr. Smith and Mr. Grantham vote No. Motion carries 6-4. Mr. Mayor: Okay. And in moving forward I would ask everybody in the room, everybody on this commission to proceed treating everybody with dignity and respect. That includes people that come before this body and I just want to put you all on warning. Please let’s proceed in that manner. Next agenda item. 18 The Clerk: FINANCE 12. Approve hiring an independent auditor to determine the cost of the proposed merger of certain pension plan. (Requested by Commissioner Jerry Brigham) Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Grantham. Mr. Grantham : Mr. Mayor, thank you and I feel like even though we passed this and it’s uh, gone on before the commissioners to approve I still would like to see what a cost is going I’m to be in regards to this plan and in regards to what the health insurance is going to be and so going to make a motion that we do or get an independent auditor to come in and review these plans and give us a final cost as to what we can expect for the future. Mr. Smith: Second. Mr. Mayor: We have a motion and a second. Is there any further um, Mr. Russell. Mr. Russell: Mr. Mayor, it was our clear and understanding that the commissioner asked that we include the healthcare benefits as part of that. Mr. Grantham: No. Mr. Hatney: No, as part of the um --- Mr. Mayor: Wait to be recognized, please, sir. Mr. Russell: Is part of your motion that we include healthcare benefits as part of the --- Mr. Grantham: You mean cost analysis? Mr. Russell: --- cost analysis, yes. Yes, sir, okay, thank you. Mr. Grantham: Yes, I’m sorry. You’re correct. Mr. Mayor: Okay. We have a motion and a second. Commissioner Brigham. Mr. Brigham: Mr. Mayor, does that include analysis of the GASB45? Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Grantham. Mr. Grantham: Yes, sir, it does. Mr. Mayor: Yes, it does. Okay, we have a motion and a second. If there’s no further discussion commissioners will now vote by the usual sign. 19 Mr. Williams and Mr. Harper vote No. Mr. Holland abstains. Motion carries 7-2-1. Mr. Mayor: All righty, let’s roll on through this. Next agenda item, please, ma’am. The Clerk: FINANCE 10. Request financial audit of DDA, Main Street, and Saturday Market finances by city’s audit firm. (Requested by Commissioner Andy Cheek) Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, we can either defer this for discussion in Legal. I don’t see any need to or we can discuss it now. There’s been a number of head count changes in the director’s position, the cancellation of Main Street changes in directorship of the Saturday Market. There’s some discrepancies with the cost of maintaining security for First Friday versus Main Street versus DDA and I think that as we have in other cases uh, when we have so many people changing so many different agencies being juggled about that it’s only proper that we get Baird . and Company to come in and do an audit of those entities. So and that’s what the request is for So I’m going to make a motion to approve that audit. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Hatney. Mr. Hatney: In, just asking of Mr. Cheek, in view of the fact there is an audit already underway of that entity could that, this request be postponed until that audit is in to cover what you’re talking about. Cause there is an audit already in progress. It just hasn’t been completed. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Cheek. Mr. Cheek: The question would have to answered is that an internal audit by DDA and knowing how a lot of audits --- Mr. Hatney: It’s not internal. Mr. Cheek: And it’s being done by Baird and Company? Mr. Hatney: It’s not an internal audit, it’s another auditing company. Mr. Cheek: It’s being done by someone DDA hired. Mr. Hatney: Well, what’s wrong with that? 20 Mr. Cheek: A $50,000 dollar sidewalk across the street is enough reason for that to be a problem so I just know I would like to see an outside group that has no ties to DDA look into that store. Mr. Mayor: Okay, we have a motion. I don’t believe there was a second on that. Mr. Smith: Second. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Bowles. Mr. Bowles: Just to inform Mr. Cheek that would be considered an independent auditor which I do for a living and um, and independent audit is an independent audit in fact so I agree with Commissioner Hatney and you might as well allow the external audit to take place to see if there are any findings, to see if there’s further investigation needed. Mr. Mayor: Okay, we have a motion and a second. Is there any further discussion? Mr. Williams: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Williams. Mr. Williams: I think Baird and Company is, has retained ownership, got an agreement with this government to do that type work and they’ve done work, other works before and I don’t think it would hurt to have two audits. If they’ve got one already in process than somebody else can go in and come back in. Now we’ve done this several times now. If y’all want to know how many times we done been in reparations, you can’t count them on your fingers and toes, the same auditor. So I think that it’d be good to have a different set of eyes, and Mr. Bowles being an auditor knows that it’s good to have another set of eyes to take a look at it. So I’m with Mr. Cheek I think we need to have an independent go in there would don’t have ties. And we’ll go back to that $50,000 dollar sidewalk that I still hadn’t swallowed yet and nobody said anything about it. But we’re investigating so let’s investigate everything. I second this motion. I think we need to get Baird and Company to go in there and take a look at that. Mr. Brigham: Call the question. Mr. Mayor: Okay, the question’s been called for. No further discussion? Commissioners will now vote by the usual sign of voting. Mr. Brigham, Mr. Hatney, Mr. Smith, Mr. Bowles, Mr. Grantham and Ms. Beard vote No. Motion fails 4-6. Mr. Cheek: Point of information, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Will we be receiving a copy of that audit when it’s completed? 21 Mr. Mayor: Yes. Mr. Russell, correct? Mr. Russell: Yes, you will. Mr. Williams: Point of order, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Williams. Mr. Williams: Thank you. I asked the Attorney to give me the reading on when the question is called what the procedure handled next. He stated you was the chief officer and you could select to go ahead with the vote. But when a question’s been called that said that there’s some unreadiness whether the commission wants to vote on that particular issue not the issue is that when there’s some unreadiness you vote to continue the conversation or you either, once that is voted you turn around and vote on the motion. So he, Mr. Jessup did not give us the true information that even in his booklet there that states how the motion is supposed to be done when a question has been called. So I differ to have him sit there and mislead us when the book is right there in front of him, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Williams: And I think the commission needs to understand what the rules are and know the rules. When you call an Attorney he ought to give you the correct reading of the rules. Mr. Mayor: Okay, thank you for your interpretation, Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: That’s not mine. That’s what the book says, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: It also says two minutes. Let’s go on to the next agenda item. Mr. Williams: That’s a rule that’s written in that book. When a question is being called then you vote on whether to continue to debate or not. Mr. Mayor: We are moving along. Mr. Williams: We did not do that. If you’re gonna follow the rules let’s follow the rules. We ain’t gonna pick and chose the ones we want --- Mr. Mayor: Mr. Williams, please, we’re moving along with the agenda. Next agenda item, Madame Clerk. The Clerk: FINANCE 11. Discuss/approve the recommendations from Administration regarding enhancements to the James Brown Statue. (Requested by Commissioner Marion Williams) 22 Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Williams. Mr. Williams: This is the same item, Mr. Mayor, that we proposed about economic development, tourism in Augusta. We talking about people being uh, having a reason to come to Augusta. About 12:15 last night coming down Broad Street, the lights on James Brown with flowers still out there. People are still bringing flowers. This man is an icon all over the world. He has put Augusta truly on the map. These lights and this music will enhance that statue to attract people to Augusta so we won’t have the problem we’ve been talking about we don’t have funds to do uh, uh healthcare for our employees and the other agencies that we need support. So I’m urging that the commission understand that. Mr. Russell has already done some preliminaries and I think he has a report. I’d like to hear that report, Mr. Mayor, and I’m going to make motion we move to approve this. Mr. Holland: Second. Mr. Mayor: We have a motion and a second. Mr. Russell, has this report not been presented before to the commission? Do you have a report? Mr. Russell: Yes, sir, it’s in your backup. What we’ve done is look at the statue itself and had several items selected out that we feel would enhance the statue itself. And you can either pass it as a package or look at those individual funding items and direct us to do certain items as opposed to others. We’ve broken out the cost as such. In addition to that the report does bring forth the idea that we talked about on several occasions about actually selling bricks with your name on them at a cost that would be helpful in helping to fund this particular project. And we feel that with that in mind it would negate some of the um, general fund dollars that would be required to do that. And I propose that as a funding option that would be available to us. In addition you’ve got some basic landscaping, the brick pavers, trash cans, benches and stuff for about $1,608. Some additional landscaping for about $3,500. The truss stage would be about $16,000 or so, additional lighting about $9,000 then um, on the next page you’ve got the music system that we feel would be approximately $10,000. The cost of the brick pavers we think would pay for a portion of this. And then you also look at an outstanding requirement to do the maintenance in that area and we think that would be somewhat minimal and we would have to include that in the package. Funds would be available in the uh, uh contingency account that we would be able to use for this at this particular point in time. And that’s you know all it is in my mind a policy decision on how and when to move forward if it’s the will of the body. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Commissioner Bowles. Mr. Bowles: If we think this is going to fund our retirement plan, Mr. Mayor, it’s going to take 340 million quarters to do so. So I think this is, you know I think we’ve got statues downtown that look fitting to the downtown landscape now and to add more lighting and make it a tourist attraction like Six Flags would be a disservice to the downtown community. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Cheek. 23 Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, in light of the many discussions we’ve had on this and since it is a financial issue I suggest we get the Chairman of Finance to appoint a committee to work with the Administrator to come up with menu of enhancements or other amenities or not for this particular project. I make that in the form of a motion. Mr. Mayor: In the form of a substitute motion? Mr. Cheek: Substitute motion. Mr. Brigham: Second. Mr. Mayor: Okay. We have a substitute motion and a second. Is there any further discussion on this issue? Commissioners will now vote by the substitute sign of voting. Mr. Grantham: What is the substitute motion? Mr. Mayor: Madame Clerk? The Clerk: The substitute motion was to defer it to the Chairman of Finance to appoint a subcommittee for review and recommendation on the enhancement. Mr. Williams, Mr. Hatney, Ms. Beard and Mr. Holland vote No. Mr. Harper abstains. Motion fails 5-4-1. Mr. Mayor: Okay, we have an original motion to approve. If there’s no further discussion, as soon as the board’s cleared, commissioners will now vote by the usual sign. Mr. Brigham, Mr. Smith, Mr. Bowles, Mr. Grantham, Mr. Cheek and Ms. Beard vote No. Motion fails 4-6. Mr. Mayor: All righty, Madame Clerk. Next agenda item, please. The Clerk: FINANCE 13. Approve SPLOST V Contractor Agreements for quality of life projects; Improvements to the Augusta Museum of History, Inc.; Imperial Theatre Improvement Project; Improvements to Lucy Craft Laney Museum and Conference Center; Construction of new tennis courts at Fleming Tennis Center; New facilities for the Augusta Mini Theatre Project. (Requested by Commissioner Jerry Brigham) Mr. Cheek: Move to approve. Mr. Brigham: Second. 24 Mr. Mayor: We have a motion and a second. Commissioner Williams. Mr. Williams: Yes, Mr. Mayor, I have a couple of issues I need to discuss on this one. The uh, the Augusta Museum, we just spent a $1,050,000 or maybe a $1,100,000 dollars for emergency air conditioning, heat and air service over there about three or four months ago. I guess my question is, this additional $500,000 dollars is that the money that’s already been spent? Is that coming out of this? Is that additional money that we’re looking at or what? Mr. Mayor: Mr. Russell. Mr. Russell: Commissioner Williams, if I can. The $500,000 dollars was the amount that was initially in the SPLOST referendum uh, to for improvements to that building so that was approved by the voters as that $500,000 dollar payment to the museum. The additional money was additional dollars that they sought for emergency repairs to the air conditioning. So you’ve got the initial $500,000 approved in the referendum plus the additional dollars that were spent, that were authorized by this commission to spend on the air conditioning HVAC system. Mr. Williams: So we couldn’t advance that $500,000 to go with what we did? I mean the other money’s just separate money you’re saying since we done done that this is in the SPLOST that that’s going to be doing it. Is that what you’re saying? Cause what we done before we had an emergency situation. Mr. Russell: Right. Mr. Williams: We were going to repair the unit then we end up replacing the unit with emergency money we had to look for. Mr. Russell: Right and basically – Mr. Mayor: Mr. Russell. Mr. Russell: If I can, Mr. Mayor. Basically what occurred was in our SPLOST resolution the museum official had asked for $500,000 to accomplish certain goals that was approved by the voters, as you well know. Later, the occurrence became the emergency repair of the HVAC system, which was a separate and distinct funding trail that we used. So in fact you’re absolutely right. We gave them $500,000 in the original SPLOST when they came back with the emergency repairs we authorized you, as a commission you authorized an additional million to fix the air conditioning system. So you’re right it’s two separate funding streams two separate issues basically. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Commissioner Grantham. Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor, he --- Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Williams. 25 Mr. Williams: The other question is on the Mini Theatre. That, since this is SPLOST V and the total was $2,400,000 what amount of that is going to the Mini Theatre. We just approved some money for them last commission meeting, $700,000 I think it was so I need to know, what’s the difference now and what we’re approving here? Mr. Russell: This is a contract for the spending of the additional, initial funds similar to the situation with the museum in the fact we told them, the Mini Theatre we’d give them “x” number of dollars which was $500,000 dollars. The $700,000 that was voted on last week is an additional funding request that you approved as a commission so you’re looking at a grand total of $1.2 million. Mr. Williams: So the $1.2 million and I’m looking at $2.4 here and I just want to be clear. The $2.4 that’s down here now, is that the amount? What can somebody, anybody, Finance, the Chairman? Mr. Mayor: Hang on. Commissioner Grantham. Mr. Grantham: Mr. Mayor, I think I can help him a little bit. If that available revenue in hand that you see at $1.2 million dollars from previous SPLOST monies that had been approved for the Augusta Mini Theatre. The $500,000 is a SPLOST V similar to the Augusta Museum SPLOST V contribution. The $700.000 additional dollars that we gave at the last meeting similar to what we did for the Augusta Museum when they needed the air-conditioning repaired for the total amount of $2,400,000 is a combination of the SPLOSTS involved plus the funds that were raised by Mr. Butler which he told us at our last meeting. So I think that should resolve the problem of what we’re giving to both of these entities which is a similar situation when they were both allotted $500,000 dollars out of SPLOST V. Mr. Williams: This is going to take care of, Mr. Mayor, all of the monies that the Mini Theatre need. They don’t need do need to do --- Mr. Grantham: That’s correct. Mr. Williams: --- what they proposed to us in phases though. My understanding was when we came in for the $700,000 they were going to have to do it in phases they didn’t have all the money. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Williams: Okay, I just want to be clear y’all. Mr. Mayor: We have a motion and a second. Is there any further discussion? Commissioners will now vote by the usual sign. Motion carries 10-0. The Clerk: 26 ENGINEERING SERVICES 14. Approve the proposal by Arcadis for subsurface evaluation of the Laney Walker Sewer Line in the amount of $108,485.00. Mr. Cheek: Move to approve. Mr. Bowles: Second. Mr. Mayor: We have a motion and a second. Commissioner Williams. Mr. Williams: Yes, sir, Mr. Mayor, how many change orders does this make at this point? How much should I say change orders has this made on the same project which we know is a good project we know that the road’s been tore up. I got folks calling me talking about how their businesses is being lost so how much, how many change order, how much money have we done with this? Mr. Byne: I don’t have the total amount of funds available. I can get that to you. I can contact and give it to you. Part of the problem is that we’ve been evaluating this portion of the line. We’re installing a replacement line for this sewage on the other side of the Columbia/Nitrogen force main. What has happened is while we’ve been constructing that during the planning phases this line has just begun to collapse. It’s reached its service life. This is what utility infrastructure problems that are prevalent throughout the nation and in this case we repaired portions of it we thought we got to the point where it was stable and it has continued to fail along it’s entire length. And what this is this is an evaluation of what’s remaining that we haven’t replaced or analyzed, the cleaning the video taping and recommendation for replacing it or in place repair. It’s a difficult line. It’s flat, there’s a lot of sewage in it we’ll have to bypass long distances. In addition there’s high ground water levels. It’s a construction nightmare and from a logistics standpoint it’s the only way to get out of that hole is that pump station in that line. So once that line begins to fail it’s a difficult project. Mr. Williams: So, Mr. Mayor, I’m hearing we’re going to have to replace the entire line. I mean if I was the contractor and I’m not but it looks like somebody ought to say well if that’s bad the whole thing will be bad and we need to replace it up to at least what we know there’s new line been put in. We keep coming back every week with a million, million and a half, $500,000 and act like that’s nothing. I know water works got plenty of money but the taxpayer’s don’t know the reason for that money, it’s going in the ground and so that brings a question to my mind, Mr. Mayor, why are we not looking at the entire line so we know what we got to deal with and deal with it --- Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Williams: --- versus keep coming back week after week after week. Mr. Byne: I think what you’re looking at here is that we thought that we would have enough time once the force main was installed to go ahead and bypass this line, do a proper 27 evaluation an engineering project and replace it. And you’re right we’ve come back and come back asked for more money. It’s a situation when an emergency occurs like this the line is collapsing, it’s difficult to replace and it is expensive and I understand that. This should take care of the remaining sections, we’ll have a firm grip on it we’ll have a new line in place or we’ll have a repaired line in place and by that a slip line in place, a repair and it will stabilize it and keep it safe for the next thirty, forty years. That’s our intention. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Cheek. Mr. Cheek: What’s the material and the service life of this existing system? Mr. Byne: It’s RCP reinforced concrete. I want to make sure that’s clear. This is an evaluation this is not a construction contract you’re looking at. Mr. Cheek: The line that’s collapsing I guess I’m asking about --- Mr. Byne: Reinforced concrete pipe and it’s suffering high hydrogen sulfide levels so it’s being attacked by the hydrogen sulfide. It’s creates sulfuric acid and eats concrete. That’s the reason why we don’t use concrete for sewer lines anymore. It had a service life of around forty years and this line it either at that life or it’s a little beyond it as far as I know. Mr. Cheek: So sulfuric acid also eats reinforcing steel. Mr. Byne: It does. It’s the same situation you’ve got with the main interceptor. Concrete was the material of choice during that time period, up through the eighties and in situations like this we have an aggressive sewer environment. Corrosion occurs at an accelerated rate. Mr. Cheek: Inner granular crate of sulfuric acid attacking the steel so. Mr. Byne: And you can line RCP and you know it gets through that. Mr. Cheek: We have it, just for the record, Mr. Mayor, a similar situation occurs which our galvanized corrugated pipe we have for storm water discharge across the city. We’re seeing failures across the city at about the same thirty or forty year life span due to the material the load and so forth and these are parts of things based on material selection initially that we’re having to deal with in a city wide issue and this is a very good plan. Mr. Byne: I think Mr. Cheek is correct, it’s occurring throughout the nation. Mr. Mayor: Okay, we have a motion and a second. If there’s no further discussion commissioners will now vote by the usual sign. Motion carries 10-0. Mr. Mayor: Magnanimous? 28 The Clerk: Magnanimous. The Clerk: ENGINEERING SERVICES 15. Discuss removal of level (2) dam and gates from level (2) junction with level (3) of the canal in preparation for white water course with the Canal Authority. Request RFP for work. (Requested by Commissioner Andy Cheek) Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, this is the one standing obstruction um, between us and being able to flow water um, between Walton Way and Hawks Gully without any standing obstructions. It has been deemed and my understanding is non-historic. The walking platform that’s directly above the dam and um, that you have to stand on to actuate the gates is collapsing and partially gone. So if we move forward with removal of this there is a couple of engineering solutions to re-water the third level using gravity at no pumping costs to maintain a good stream th of water on the third level on the south side of I believe it’s 10 Street while allowing us to begin making preparations for a white water course or at least an inner tube ride through the city of just with the removal of this dam. It’s roughly forty feet wide and about fifteen feet high, it’s concrete and I’ll be happy to if somebody will donate a jack hammer and a compressor go and get started on that. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Brigham. Mr. Brigham: Mr. Sherrouse is here. I’d like to hear --- Mr. Mayor: Mr. Sherrouse. Mr. Sherrouse: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. It is a historic structure and it’s part of the original construction of Blanche Mill, it served Blanche Mill when it was there. Um, there are a lot of um, questions about the, whether or not in my mind whether or not the kayak course can work in this area or not. We support kayak, white water course. My suggestion or recommendation to you is we are, on the list of projects that we originally submitted is a part of SPLOST V projects that we were approved for, we’re scheduled according to Finance to receive funding next month and so my recommendations or thoughts are is that we would go ahead and do an engineering study on the sites that are being proposed for the white water kayak course and uh, if this is the site than it’ll come out that way in the report but uh, I have reservations like, you know we’re going to re-water the third level of the canal. If we take the dam out I don’t know how we’re going to back the water back up though the second to get it down in the third level. When we were working down on the Atlanta Gas and Light property and so I think there are a lot of questions about that are unanswered we need to have answers for before we start tearing things out and if that the site and that’s the recommendation then that’s fine but I we need to get answers to these questions before we start doing that. And the way is to commissioners is a complete engineering study on all the sites not just this ones that are being proposed and we 29 would do that out of the SPLOST money that we’re scheduled to receive from five, next month so we’ll go ahead and pursue, pursue that project at that time. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Commissioner Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, I’m happy to hear that it’s a step in the right direction. I’ll say this. Removal of that particular dam um, the Romans built aqueducts that went both up and down mountains. Depending on where you place your intake along the second level will determine the water level in the third level if you can replace. I’ve done an independent engineering study of how to do this. It’s very simple. Just place your intake upstream at a level where you want the water to be in the third level and then you will accomplish that depending on the amount of flow that we have in the canal, second level. The second level and the third level will have to be re-contoured to the proper gradient which would require some fill and some changes to those areas virtually bringing that ditch up to a level that would make it observable to the street and esthetically more pleasing than it currently is now. It would isolate the canal, the third level at that point to where the water which already does um, the area that acts primarily as th drainage for that area drains the south, I believe that is 10 Street would still act like that and get fresh water from the second level. Then the remainder of the water would go down the second level from Walton Way turn left and go towards Hawks Gully and being re-contoured would provide us with the opportunity to actually have flowing white water visible from the streets and some of the areas around the Sacred Heart Cultural Center and some of these other places so um, I’ll be happy, in fact I’ll volunteer to serve on that task force um, and also um, or at least ask to be invited to those, Mr. Mayor, maybe if you could help me with that, make that happen but uh, we’ve been studying this white water course for nearly thirty years now and uh, it’s near and dear to the hearts of a lot of people. It can be accomplished cheaply simply --- Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Cheek: --- in using engineering techniques that are probably two to three thousand years old. Mr. Mayor: I’m trying to be a little more gentle than I was with the gavel before. Mr. Brigham. Mr. Brigham: Mr. Mayor, do you have a motion on the floor? Mr. Mayor: Is there a motion, Madame Clerk? There’s no motion. Mr. Brigham: I make a motion we do what Mr. Sherrouse suggested. Mr. Cheek: I’ll second that if I get to be on the committee. Mr. Bowles: Yeah, I’d like to make a substitute motion that we allow Mr. Sherrouse to do it as long as Mr. Cheek is intimately involved as he wants to be. 30 Mr. Mayor: Okay, we have substitute motion. Do we have a second on that? Okay, we have the first motion on the floor to take the recommendation of Mr. Sherrouse the Executive Director of the Canal Authority. If there’s no further discussion commissioners will now vote by the usual sign of voting. Motion carries 10-0. Mr. Cheek: Wait a minute. I didn’t second that, did you second that? We didn’t get the substitute motion? Mr. Hatney: Nobody seconded it. Mr. Mayor: Nobody seconded it. Please include Mr. Cheek. Mr. Brigham: He’s involved anyway. Mr. Cheek: Yes, but there’s two ways, I’m sorry, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Next agenda item, Madame Clerk. The Clerk: ENGINEERING SERVICES 16. Status report from Canal Authority on restoration plans for towpath area between the city’s pumping stations and I-20. (Requested by Commissioner Andy Cheek) Mr. Mayor: Mr. Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, just a prelude to the status report. We are five weeks and counting in to the two-month deadline on this. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Sherrouse. Mr. Sherrouse: Okay, following the last meeting when this was discussed we, utilities and I have met with the contractor and we reviewed the draft of the report. There was a couple areas where we found some seepage, have gone back and done some test borings in those areas and our intention is to have the full engineering report back to you within the two-month time frame that you specified in March. And I will point out that most, logically this ought to be presented to you by the Utilities Department because we don’t, we provide minor maintenance up, the heavy stuff like this we don’t do. Utilities has the contract with the consultant not us and so if, if I haven’t answered properly or Max can add to it but --- Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Sherrouse: --- that’s the report I have that we, like I say we reviewed the draft and will have it back to you within the time. 31 Mr. Mayor: Okay. Commissioner Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, and Dayton, I guess we have one of these relationships hopefully we understand each other and you understand my heart on this issue. But utilities this commission supported the Canal Authority and uh, through utilities with a $2 million dollar pledge to repair the diversion dam. This body also stated at that time that if additional funds were needed to repair the tow path which supports the largest water conducting pipe we have in the city that we would pony up and make sure that it’s survives in order to provide the city with 60% of it’s drinking water and you’re quite right, that is something although Max didn’t smile when we did it initially, repairing the diversion dam is the right thing and I hope they’re finishing it with all the low water we’ve had. But that we get in and get this portion of the towpath repaired in some way that is amenable to the Canal Authority and guarantees the next hundred years of survival for that portion of the towpath. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Brigham: I make a motion we receive this as information. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor: We have a motion and a second. Is there any further discussion? Commissioners will now vote by the usual sign. Motion carries 10-0. Mr. Mayor: Next agenda item, Madame Clerk. The Clerk: ENGINEERING SERVICES 17. Consider a request from Mr. Curt Page regarding relief from garbage service fees for property located at 2609 Ivey Road. (No recommendation from Engineering Services Committee April 9, 2007) Mr. Mayor: Okay, and Mr. Page, if you could keep it to five-minutes, please, sir. Mr. Page: We’ll see if we can do that. My name is Curt Page. My address is 705 Pine Log Road, Beech Island, South Carolina. I’m the executor of the estate of J.L. Spangler who has a residence at 2609 Ivey Road here in Augusta. I had the opportunity a couple weeks ago to go before the committee, the Engineering Committee which Mr. Price is the Chairman and then it was forwarded on to you know the committee here. No decision was made and so that’s why we’re here. I’m really seeking relief from services, from having to pay for services that I have not received. This house has been vacant since October of ’98. The only difference and that being another house I’m concerned with, it’s lowest concern but this resolution is that, resolution or the law whatever you want to call it --- 32 Mr. Smith: Mr. Mayo,r could you get him to talk into the mike. Mr. Mayor: Yes, sir. Would you please speak into the microphone we can’t --- Mr. Page: Is that better? The only difference and this being an abandoned house or whatever what ever it might concerning this law is that the utilities are on. The power is on the water is on. The telephone was on until January of this year. The way that the information reads is of the government here is that if the utilities are on than it’s considered that the house is you know, being lived in. It gives no avenue for you know any negotiation, mitigation or anything else. The, I have here bills, the power bills the light bills the water bills, I mean correction the power and the water bills um, showing for the last, the water bill goes back to January of ’99. The power bill for this last month um, was a dollar and five cents. That averages out to three cents a day. A year ago it was a dollar fourteen for the month. This clearly shows that no one lives there. The primary reason that the utilities are still on is because that if I go over there to make repairs or just in general maintenance than number one we have a facility. The water bill will show you that since 1999 there’s been 21 gallons of water used since January of 1999. Apparently that was a couple of flushes. But the power is on um, I used 42 kilowatts of power last month and the um, the law that I mean the way this law is written if the utilities are on you’re guilty. I mean there’s you know there’s no other way out. I’m saying no one was there. I’m attempting to prove no one lives there and of course any violation of the law whatever it might be it, the word intent comes into it. I’m sure the council and probably Mr. Russell might agree with me on this with his expanse in law enforcement. If someone kicks open the door to your home and comes in are they guilty of burglary? Well not yet. The way the law reads if someone breaks and enters a building or business or your home with the intent to commit a felony or a crime of a lesser degree now the intent while, what were they there for? If they just came in to use the phone or to wake you up you know in an emergency or what have you then that’s not you know it’s not breaking it’s not burglary um, the intent was not to try to live there and um, you know not pay anything or just try to skip this law. But nothing has been picked up no solid waste or anything has been picked up. Every piece or item of garbage has been taken away from there; I have taken it away with the exception of last month. The um, and I’m just saying I have these records here for your inspection if you like. The um, I’ve been told in writing and in person that if I do not pay these fees that they’re going to issue a --- and seize my house and sell it off at auction. Actually what this amounts to and I’ll use an analogy and that is if you’re stopped by a police officer and you go to court the court says all right a thousand dollar fine. The officer just wrote the ticket, it’s a thousand dollar fine. You either pay it or we take your house. I mean we take your car in this case. I mean there’s no room for negotiation mitigation or anything else. The time before the committee a young man who was identified I believe --- Mr. Mayor: Okay, your five-minutes is up. Okay, so just to clarify your request is your request is just to waive all the fees. Mr. Page: Yes, waive the, you know --- Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Cheek. 33 Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor I’ve seen Ms. Costabile here and I would ask if there are any codes, have there been any code enforcement issues with this property, if she has information on that. Ms. Costabile: Uh, yes, sir, we have. We have sent out notices to Mr. Page. The letters returned and I believe a handout was given to Lena on all of the history on the property. I don’t know that he’s here today about those particular fees that were waived since city crew on there. The letter returned and during the budget problems that we have we started mailing out letters in regular mail because that particular code does not require us to send a certified letter. But when we send the bill out of course it still had the certified letter on there and since then IT has removed that from the bill. And we did track him done and we gave him extension, several extensions of time to clean the lot and eventually we had to send the city crew on there. Mr. Cheek: So what I’m hearing is that has been a problem for the neighborhood, it’s been reported through code enforcement and the city’s had to clean it up. Mr. Mayor, I for one regardless whether there is power on or not know that vacant homes are a problem in I for one am not in communities, absentee landlords are a problem in the communities and favor ofgranting this request in the hopes that maybe we’ll get this back on the market and a family move in or something. Mr. Mayor: Does that come in the form of a motion? Mr. Cheek: It comes in the form of a motion. Mr. Bowles: Second. Mr. Mayor: We have a motion and a second. Is there any further discussion? Commissioners will now vote by the usual sign. Motion carries 10-0. The Clerk: OTHER BUSINESS 19. Discuss adding the President or his designee of the Board of Education to the ARC Planning Commission as an Ex-Officio member. (Requested by Commissioner Jerry Brigham) Mr. Mayor: Can we refer this, sir? The agenda item’s been disposed of. Can we refer this item back to committee so we can get a legal opinion to attach to it in going forward? Can I get a motion to that effect? Mr. Brigham: So moved. Mr. Cheek: Second. 34 Mr. Mayor: And the appropriate committee. Mr. Jessup: You’re the mayor --- (INAUDIBLE) Mr. Mayor: Administrative Services? Okay. We have a motion and a second. Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Williams. Mr. Williams: Can we not get an answer before our meeting is over with from one of these attorneys we pay around here? This is not a rocket science question here now. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Jessup. Mr. Jessup: May I have the question again, your honor? Mr. Mayor: On agenda item nineteen the legality of this body taking action to make a member of the school board a member of the, and Ex-Officio member of the ARC Planning Commission. Commissioner Hatney, it was your question so. Mr. Hatney: It’s not so much a question Mr. Mayor. An Ex-Officio has to be within that government and elected or an appointed individual. You can’t reach outside of your government and put somebody else on. He might want to expand the number of folks on the, on the board to include the member. The Board of Education in Richmond County is to --- different entity all together. You could serve as an Ex-Officio cause you were elected within this body. A commissioner could serve that way. You can’t do that with somebody in another government. You can’t do the state versus nor federal government. You can’t do that. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Jessup. Mr. Jessup: Mr. Mayor, I’d be pleased to make a comment but I believe Mr. Brigham who sponsored this deserves the floor if I might defer to him. Mr. Hatney: You can’t cut me off if I’m talking now. Mr. Mayor: Y’all, let’s settle down but I believe Mr. Brigham when we were discussing it with regards to the consent agenda did, was allowed time to give his input with regards to his opinion. Mr. Jessup: It’s my opinion your honor that and Ex-Officio member would not be allowed to vote anyway. So I think the question is two different sovereigns would be answered by the fact that he would not be a voting member that he would be accorded all the status of membership besides voting. He would be allowed to enter into for instance special legal sessions, to be able to comment to be able to enter into discussions but he wouldn’t be a voting 35 member. So I think the question is to whether or not he’s serving in two different sovereigns would be answered by the fact that he would not be serving both sovereigns in a full capacity. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Well, we have a motion and a second to refer this back to committee that would need to be voted on. Commissioner Cheek. Mr. Cheek: In the interest of saving a fifty item committee agenda I’m going to go ahead and make a substitute motion since the Board of Education’s interest in participating it is in the best interest of the city and could save millions of dollars potentially in helping the city plan and suggest places where there’s infrastructure substitute motion is to go ahead and approve this and then have the Attorney and staff discuss working out the details on how this would occur with the school board. Mr. Bowles: Second. Mr. Mayor: Bless you. The Clerk: Thank you. Mr. Mayor: We have a substitute motion and a second. The Clerk: Who seconded that? Mr. Mayor: Joe. The Clerk: Joe. Mr. Mayor: If there’s no further --- Mr. Hatney: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Hatney. Mr. Hatney: My question still remains how can this body sit here and put in the form of a motion to make somebody of another government an Ex-Officio of an entity of this government don’t do that kind of stuff. That’s my concern. If the government that designed to lead this government isn’t going to act within the accordance of common sense than I think we’re all be in trouble. I’ve got no problem with the Board of Education, I served on it but and Ex-Officio of somebody that’s already appointed or elected in the --- of the body. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Commissioner Brigham. Mr. Brigham: Mr. Mayor, I believe that the Planning and Zoning Commission is a creation of our ordinances and that we’re the only people that can put somebody on the Planning and Zoning Commission by virtue of a position whether it is in or outside of this government. That’s who I think we have to be the body that does that. I think we have to amend our 36 ordinances in the manner if this is the consensus of this commission to do that. But I don’t think nobody else could do it but us. Mr. Hatney: (INAUDIBLE) Mr. Mayor: Okay, Commissioner Beard. Ms. Beard: Mr. Mayor, I’m just wondering if it has been discussed with the Board of Education. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Brigham, has this been discussed with the Board of Education? Mr. Brigham: I believe Ms. Beard was at the meeting --- Ms. Beard: Well, if so it was, it entailed quite a few things I don’t recall. What was discussed in reference to it, Jerry? Mr. Brigham: Basically what we’re trying to do is, we’re trying to get their input as to their future construction plans to have it inputted into our planning process so that we can kind of gee haw and work together and do what’s in the best interest of this community as an overall operation. And that’s the planning facilities and the land usage of this cabinet. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Ms. Beard: Now I’m going to, I’d just like to mention that was a general meeting. If this is something we really want to do I think we need to call them and discuss it. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Madame Clerk, please notice that was the first time I’ve ever used, heard the word gee haw used in one of these meetings. Commissioner Williams. Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor, I think that the School Board has an Ex-Officio member of the board that comes to our meetings. Can’t we send somebody from this government to their meetings so that we can participate in what they’re doing as well as far as construction and everything else rather than add one other people to our board, why we can’t, why we can’t our own whether is be a staff member, whether it be another elected official to their Planning and Zoning or their planning board anyway. It’s just to see how we can work this out. I think we’re talking a whole lot of nonsense about nothing here. I think we need to go ahead either leave it alone or send somebody over there. It doesn’t matter what government it come out of if we send somebody from this government to be over there just to listen to take information and to bring it back and then incorporate into what we’re doing. It’s essentially the same thing. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Commissioner Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Just a point of information, Mr. Mayor. Board members attending open meetings does not solve the problem although the board has been faithful and some of us have 37 been over to their meetings sets a great and wonderful thing. Where the rubber meets the road is as I’ve said earlier, Mc Bean Elementary, Sue Reynolds and these are just a few. Farrington built on Windsor Spring Road, which is already overcrowded. Absolutely no discussion with this governing body who is responsible for providing the infrastructure at the cost of millions of dollars. Appointing someone from the Board of Education and beginning to work as a team on the issues of infrastructure, population and planning of this community, which is something, that is not nor has it been done in the past makes good sense. It’s done in other cities putting him on as an Ex-Officio member will give them the ability to go into legal meetings where property is discussed and bind them by the same rules of secrecy for real estate matters for real estate that we’re bond by here and the board members are bond by theirs. Other than that they will be free to come back and the working out of this arrangement discuss with us as a board and us, our problems and issues with them as a board in Legal where we don’t escalate property values and resolve problems in the best interest of all of the people of this city. That’s all we’re trying to do. Mr. Mayor: Okay, we have substitute motion and a second. Mr. Holland: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Holland. Mr. Holland: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I attended that same meeting with the Board of Education. I was a few minutes late but I did have an opportunity to sit in and listen to the general discussion that was being discussed in reference to putting someone on the board. From my understanding at that discussion at that particular morning is that I came away with the fact that they did not want an Ex-Officio person on the board. I came away with the understanding that they would like to have someone appointed to be on the board but not an Ex-Officio person. My concern at this particular time is that we need to get back with the board members, get back with the board to find out exactly what it is that they want to do and how they want to have someone in place on the commission. Mr. Mayor: Okay, we have a substitute motion and second. Is there’s no further discussion commissioners will now vote by the sub --- please, Madame Clerk, it’s been a long day and it’s still early. Read the motion back, please. The Clerk: The substitute motion is to approve adding the President or his designee to the Richmond County Planning Commission. Mr. Mayor: Commissioners will now vote by the substitute sign of voting. Mr. Williams, Dr. Hatney, Mr. Harper, Ms. Beard and Mr. Holland Vote No. Motion ties 5-5. Mr. Mayor: I will vote in favor of this motion bearing in mind that the School Board is notified and also that the legality is clarified before doing so. The Mayor votes Yes. 38 Motion carries 6-5. Mr. Bowles: Blow the dust off that button before you press it. Mr. Mayor: Huh? Mr. Bowles: Get all the dust off your button before you press it. Mr. Mayor: I don’t have a button. The Clerk: OTHER BUSINESS 20. Discuss Commission censure of commissioner that violated city code by instructing subordinate, non-direct reporting IT personnel to copy City Administrator’s Hard Drive. Acting individually without full commission approval. (Requested by Commissioner Andy Cheek) Mr. Mayor: And prior to discussing this agenda item the, all commissioners should have in front of them a memo that I sent out this morning with regards to a request that I’m making that due to the fact that it is my authority to and duty to enforce ordinances of the city I believe this matter deserves due process which I don’t believe that we’ve had ample time to do that to this point to hear from all sides and to thoroughly review the ordinance I referenced in this. So I would ask that the commission consider that going in, consider a motion to that effect. I would also say that a portion of this I believe involves personnel and should be discussed in legal discussion. I would look to the Attorney for that but I will now hear from the commission. Commissioner Cheek, you had your hand up first. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, I have copies of the information I’d like to take forward in reading this. Due to the gravity of the situation I believe this is part of due process in that in order for anything to proceed a charge has to be made so I will read this an ask that it be entered as part of the record. This is addressed to the Mayor and Commission from me District VI Commissioner whereas all elected commissioners and the Mayor are expected to work within the city codes and rules. That out of respect for the governing body any commissioner that has suspicion of a subordinate employee should inform the body of commissioners and Mayor or appropriate administrative staff of said suspicions before taking actions unless they involve public safety or life and death. That it is illegal for a commissioner to direct the work activities of a non-direct reporting city employee. I referenced ordinance 1-1-13, Contact with Employees. That no commissioner should seek to remove material, equipment or documents from an employee’s office when they are on vacation unless authorized by six votes of the commission in an appropriate and follows all appropriate protocol. That a commissioner or Mayor should follow the agreed upon behavior that is the will of the body unless consent is given by the body of commissioners to deviate from the initial agreed upon course of action that no commissioner shall take it upon himself, herself to launch an investigation that is disruptive to the government of the City of Augusta without the consent of six members of this commission. Given these criteria were violated by Commissioner Holland I ask that the commission to censure said 39 commissioner for these activities as actions non-becoming an elected commissioner of the City of Augusta in violation of the city ordinance. Further that he be instructed by this body not to undertake such actions like those listed in the future. Respectfully submitted, Andy Cheek III Commissioner District VI, Richmond County. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Commissioner Williams. Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. In lieu of Commissioner Cheek and his statement first of all I’ve got two issues. The first one is that we need to have another attorney present for this attorney here is somewhat named in this uh, discussion that’s going to be appointed. I don’t think he can legally give an interpretation for the law or for this government, governing body. That’s my first point. The second point is that I think that Commissioner Holland wants due process. I feel like he hasn’t had due process. We ought to afford him that opportunity to uh, to speak, or to accept or to do whatever he wants to do. But I think if we’re going to talk about this we certainly need to talk about it in the open, get it all out and get it over with. It’s already been all over the media. Sylvia Cooper had had a field day. I don’t know if she got a raise of not but she should have. The news media, George Eskola Twelve and all the other local media have had their day with this commissioner and I feel very upset that he has not done anything out of the guidelines of the elected office that he holds. But before we go any further I think we need to look at whether or not this attorney is the attorney that needs to be sitting here to answer because his name will come up in this conversation if we commence to talk about this, Mr. Mayor, so I think that’s the first thing is give Commissioner Holland that right to find out whether he thinks that he has had due process before the news media ate him alive and he needs to get used to that cause they’ll do it every time. But uh, that’s my first statement. Then we need to get a legal opinion from somebody else whether or not this attorney can sit here and make an intelligent uh, I guess decision to --- Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Williams: --- come to this point. Mr. Mayor: Okay, Commissioner Hatney. Mr. Hatney: I think Commissioner Cheek did a great job in his analysis but uh; I call his attention to that very ordinance that he’s talking about. That first line wipes out all the possibility of any wrong doing because that first line says except for purposes of inquiry and investigation. Except for. That first line makes that very clear that he was operating within his authority. It might have been something I wouldn’t have done, not me but he’s not operating out of his authority. It’s the very same argument came up in ’03 and they discussed it about an hour. And it’s some of the same folks who has a problem with it now was a part of that argument and finally they voted if I’m not mistaken ten to nothing to uphold this ordinance granting to commissioners the authority to ask for information. This is not the first time this has come before the body. We weren’t here but some of these folks are here that were here. And some of them made the same argument that they felt like it was within the rights of the commissioners all of a sudden. All of a sudden it’s all wrong so my concern is that due process is a thing that is 40 necessary if something was done illegal. There’s nothing illegal done about this. Absolutely nothing. Mr. Mayor: Okay, I’m just going to before we move I will recognize, we’re going to stick to the two-minute time limit. I will recognize everybody twice on this issue. I still you know obviously some people feel differently about it. I still think it would be good to have time to discuss it more than just in this session but I just say that sort of as the ground rules to this situation. Commissioner Holland. Mr. Holland: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Once again I was looking at this information in reference to what Mr. Cheek has come up with. It’s very analytical. This is not about me this is about the people of Augusta. Now nobody said anything about due process when the TV cameras were rolling all last week when the phone calls were being made all last week when you Mr. Mayor, Mr. Russell and Mr. Cheek was all on television trying to hang me out in the cold. Simply because I followed the right codes and I did not violate any codes whatsoever. As a matter of fact as long as yesterday some of the commissioners read the ordinance, looked at the ordinance and they have even agreed to the point that I did not violate any code or did not violate any ordinance. Now as Mr. Williams, Commissioner Williams has stated we do have someone in here who should not be in here at this particular time simply because he was involved in doing something similar to what I had requested. I did not go to anybody’s hard drive I requested information through the IT department. I followed protocol. I followed the procedure. Who is the director of IT? Was she available? Who was in charge in her absence? What are their titles? Did Mr. Shepard and Mr. Jessup make a request for Vanessa Flournoy’s hard drive when they got it from here computer? Mr. Mayor: I would say --- Mr. Mayor: In a minute. Wait a minute Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Holland, we’re getting into personnel issues that need to be discussed in Legal. Mr. Holland: Let’s excuse this gentleman because you all have taken me through the news media and you have tried to just humiliate me in reference to making it appear as if I’ve done something wrong, like I committed a crime. When I campaigned I campaigned for the people of Augusta and I told them that I would keep them involved on information that came through this government. And that is information that needs to be shared with the people of Augusta. That computer belongs to the City of Augusta. It is not Mr. Russell’s personnel computer. I did not ask a custodian or janitor or somebody else to go and get information off of his computer. Had he been here I would’ve asked him. But he left so I followed the next protocol and procedure, which was correct and I did not violate any protocol no way, shape, form or fashion. For some reason or another you all are trying to come up with a violation that I made. And as I just stated some commissioners have already this ordinance even on yesterday and this morning and you even, Mr. Mayor, got on television and was not even able to give an intelligent response to --- 41 Mr. Mayor: Okay, Commissioner Holland --- Mr. Holland: --- to the news people when they asked you a question. Mr. Mayor: --- you’re at you two-minute time limit. Mr. Holland: Mr. Mayor, you’re going to have to have security to come in here and take me out because you are not going to stop me from talking --- Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Holland --- Mr. Holland: --- in reference to what I have --- Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Holland --- Mr. Holland: --- has happened to me --- Mr. Mayor: I will recognize you another two minutes. Mr. Holland: --- you’re trying to destroy me and turn all the information --- Mr. Mayor: GAVEL Mr. Holland: --- you can hit the gavel as many times as you want to --- Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Holland, you will follow procedure on this matter. Mr. Holland: We are going to discuss this today and we’re going to discuss it to the end because I have not violated any procedure I have not --- Mr. Mayor: No, this is, I am calling you out of order now. And I am, I will not put up with this in these chambers. With reference to what I’ve said to the press I stated if in fact there was an infraction I requested that due process be given. I will not put up with outbursts, playing to the crowd. The people you referenced that we represent are 200,000 people. They are not solely the people in this room. Mr. Harper. Mr. Harper: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. My problem is the due process factor. I think um, I received a phone call as well. I didn’t make a comment because I thought that it wasn’t my place as an elected official to comment on another commissioner. Even though Mr. Holland was being dragged through the media, TV and everything, paraded around I thought that it was wrong for anybody to make a comment not allowing him the right to have due process. With that said I yield the remainder of my time to Commissioner Holland. Mr. Holland: Thank you, Mr. Harper. I also would like to know, Mr. Mayor, are we going to still let Mr. Jessup sit in here since he is under investigation also. 42 Mr. Mayor: We are, we’re getting into personnel issues and let me say that we are dealing with the agenda item as stated. There is solely one agenda item to discuss and that is what Commissioner Cheek has put on there. And we are not dealing with any other personnel issues revolving around this matter right now, those, the appropriate and legal manner to handle those is in Legal session. Mr. Holland: Mr. Mayor, we’re talking in reference to receiving information from a computer and the information that I requested from a computer I did not get. Mr. Russell was insubordinate along with the gentleman with whom I requested specific information from by saying no. That is totally insubordinate to say no to your supervisor. If he would ask a department head for some information and that department head would tell him no then he would be ready to reprimand that particular department head immediately. Mr. Mayor: But he is an employee --- Mr. Holland: He is an employee --- Mr. Mayor: --- of the city. Mr. Holland: --- and I am an elected commissioner. I am even your supervisor --- (LAUGHTER) Mr. Mayor: Oh, man. Mr. Holland: --- as a mayor. Mr. Mayor: Let me tell you this. We as elected officials are public servants. We are not above the people. Mr. Holland: We are all public servants. He is, I am supervisor over Fred Russell. He reports to me and the other nine commissioners. Mr. Mayor: I --- Mr. Holland: Now where does that place me or you? Okay. Now the information that was discussed, how could they go and get information off another person’s hard drive and I made the same request and I was refused that same information. Was that fair? No, it was not fair. Was that legal? No, it was not legal. Did I contact the right people? Yes, I did. Why could that individual go and get some information off another computer as requested and then when time to get information off of Mr. Russell’s computer he had to call Mr. Russell on the telephone and tell him what was being requested so Mr. Russell could say not to what I had done. Mr. Mayor: Okay. 43 Mr. Holland: And I followed all the procedure, all the protocol, contacted the person that was supposed to have been contacted and I followed all of that procedure. Now to censure me, you know I’m glad my wife gave me a notebook. Cause I looked at some notes that I had --- Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Holland: Let me finish. Let me finish this. I sat in those chambers over there where the gentleman and Ms. Cooper’s sitting about a year and a half and two years ago, about two years ago. When we all took Miss Theresa Smith and paraded her up here and Ms. Smith discussed the fact that she was not privileged to information that was discussed by commissioners with her employees at that particular time. Did anybody discuss censure then? No, they did not. Did anybody discuss censure with Shepard and Jessup? Disrespected three commissioners here? But all of a sudden --- Mr. Mayor: You are making --- Mr. Holland: --- I have made a request for some information from Mr. Russell, you want to censure me. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Holland. Mr. Holland: And you drug all of this information through --- Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Holland. Mr. Holland: --- the media and you are wrong. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Holland. Mr. Holland: You are wrong. Mr. Mayor: I would like to get a motion on this either to receive as information. We need, this is making a mockery of these proceedings. Mr. Holland: It wasn’t making a mockery when you all were on television. Mr. Mayor: And I understand that you were on the radio. Mr. Mayor: That’s right, I was on the radio and I was glad that someone thought enough of me to come by and ask me --- Mr. Mayor: Okay this is, this is --- Mr. Holland: --- to explain it on the radio. Mr. Mayor: Okay, this is, this is a disservice to the people of this community. 44 Mr. Holland: It was a disservice to me when you got on television and --- Mr. Mayor: It is reference in our Rules of Procedure that you do not address people personally. This has become --- Mr. Holland: When then you shouldn’t have addressed me personally on television. I’m not going to back off on this. Mr. Mayor: If you’d like to review the tapes I never mentioned your name. Commissioner Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, I would cite again Section 1-1-13 and if it is read in it’s entirety it would say that we are not to talk to and I’m going to paraphrase in the interest of time that below department head level personnel unless we go through the Administrator. We’re also sworn to uphold the highest standards as we can to avoid impropriety and the, the appearance thereof and I certainly think removal of or attempted removal of a hard drive to ascertain information from it in the absence of an employee who’s on vacation has certainly has smacks of secrecy, bad tactics, sneakiness if you, for lack of anything else. Mr. Holland: Mr. Mayor --- Mr. Mayor: You have not been recognized. I am allowing Mr. Cheek his time. Mr. Cheek: And I hope I’ll have those additional few seconds back, Mr. Mayor. I represent a district of people who deserve to be represented. When any one of us, and I have fought this since I’ve been here, when anyone of us has our due process by being not considered when investigations are ongoing and things that can disrupt this government by not being asked or included in or part of these plans that are afoot to basically disrupt the entire upper infrastructure of this government. That takes not only my right as a commissioner away to be involved in decisions that are being made that affects staff employees that are important to this government but it takes the rights of my 32,000 plus constituents away. No man sitting on this board has a right to do this. Mr. Mayor, you’re the only one here elected by the entire city. You are not subordinate to any of us. Mr. Mayor, I also suggest that we look at this very seriously because if we get into a situation to where under whatever flag we want to wave or whatever title we want to say that we have eleven bosses going around --- Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Cheek: --- pulling hard drives and investigating --- Mr. Mayor: Okay --- Mr. Holland: Hit your gavel. Mr. Cheek: --- work activities of employees --- 45 Mr. Mayor: Okay, you’re wearing it out. Mr. Cheek: --- we will have chaos. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Cheek --- Mr. Holland: You didn’t hit your gavel. Mr. Mayor: I forgot you are above me. Commissioner Williams. Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I’m glad to know that somebody else is not pointing the finger at Marion Williams this time and it’s Calvin Holland but I appreciate Mr. Holland for what he’s doing. I think he’s well within his rights. Mr. Mayor, you are a full-time paid employee and I believe that you fall under the commissioners. If I suspected that there was something done in your office that was on the taxpayers computers I feel like that as a commissioner I had to right to inquire and to find out about it. Now let’s go back just for a second. I want to slow it down just for a second. This whole thing started, we’re going to talk about the hard drive but let’s go back to where this whole thing started when we, when Mr. Jessup recommended that we fire a person and that person was given an opportunity to be terminated --- Mr. Mayor: We are discussing personnel --- Mr. Williams: Yes, sir, this is --- Mr. Mayor: --- in these chambers and this putting us in hot water --- Mr. Williams: --- taxpayers business. This ain’t private stuff, this is taxpayer’s business. We ain’t talking prior entity. Now when Mr. Jessup made that statement and I hope I get the same seconds back that Mr. Brigham trying to take but he won’t take away but he’s trying to. When we discussed taxpayers employees that Mr. Jessup had terminated and then he went into her computer and done the same thing. Mr. Holland in turn as an elected official did the same thing. Now any Joe Hooker can get an investigation done on me as an elected official for a feel I done something wrong had the BGI, the FBI, the CIS and all those other entities out there that want to check me as an elected official but he being an elected official by the people can’t ask about an employee about the Administrator? Unless he has his own private computer he would have been wrong to go into his private business but any computer in this government, he has the authority to look into it if he suspects something is done wrong. Now this lady was fired because she had a business that she was transacting on the city’s computer. But she’s not the only one. There are several other people that have been named, Mr. Mayor --- Mr. Mayor: In fairness --- Mr. Williams: --- doing things on their computer and we had not said one thing about that. 46 Mr. Mayor: I said the same thing to Mr. Cheek. Your two minutes is up. Mr. Williams: I asked you to do that, Mr. Jessup to be removed but you preferred to leave him here. Mr. Mayor: No, I --- Mr. Williams: Mr. Jessup --- Mr. Mayor: We’re dealing with, we are not dealing with --- Mr. Williams: Mr. Jessup is the main cause of this whole event --- Mr. Mayor: We are dealing with a single agenda item. I would like to get a motion some how so we can dispose of this agenda item and move on --- Mr. Cheek: Motion to censure, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Is there a second? Mr. Brigham: Second. Mr. Mayor: Okay, we have a motion and a second. Commissioner Harper. Mr. Harper: Substitute motion. I believe I’d make a motion that Mr. Jessup excuse himself from these proceedings. Mr. Holland: I’ll second that motion. Mr. Mayor: That’s not on the agenda item at hand. Mr. Holland: But he’s involved. Mr. Mayor: No --- Mr. Brigham: He’s not involved. Mr. Williams: Mr. Jessup is truly involved in this situation and Mr. Jessup --- Mr. Mayor: No, no we will run this meeting by the policies and procedures that govern this body. We are dealing with this agenda item. That motion has nothing to do with this agenda item. This simply is, it was requested by Commissioner Cheek, we will dispose of this agenda item and we will move on. Mr. Harper: Do I still have the floor, Mr. Mayor? 47 Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Harper. Mr. Harper: I yield my two minutes back to Mr. Holland. Mr. Holland: Thank you,Mr. Harper. Mr. Mayor: This is literally making a mockery of the governmental process. Mr. Holland: It’s only making a mockery out of it, Mr. Mayor, simply because I have done what was right and you all have not been able to find any violation of what I have done in reference to requesting specific information from a city government computer. That computer belongs to the government. I went through the proper protocol, the proper personnel and requested the correct information from that computer. Now that same individual was able to go to another computer and pull information off that computer but he was not able to go to this computer and get information off of that one. Why? I made the same contact with him other commissioners have made the same contact with that individual so why was it so different from I did in comparison to what Shepard and Jessup did in reference to taking the hard drive off of Vanessa Flournoy’s computer and turning it over to the police. Right is right and wrong is wrong. This is the same game but the rules change when certain people are involved. And if you look at it all the way down through this government the rules change when certain people are involved. And it’s high time for these changes to be brought forth and for the people to do the right things in this local government. That’s what I was elected for, that’s exactly what I’m going to do and you have the unmitigating gall to even want to thing about censuring a fellow commissioner. You should have been working with me to try to help find information that is illegal on the computer --- Mr. Mayor: Okay, your time is --- Mr. Holland: --- rather than trying to go against me --- Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Holland. Mr. Holland: --- to make it appear as if I’m a criminal. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Holland, your time is up. Mr. Holland: That’s so unfair. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Hatney. Mr. Brigham: Call the question. Mr. Hatney: Mr. Mayor. 48 Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Hatney. The question has been called for but Commissioner Hatney had his hand up first and I recognize him. Mr. Hatney: That’s okay. Call for the question. Mr. Mayor: Okay, the question has been called for. The motion on this agenda item as recognized is to proceed with the censure. If there’s no further discussion, there is not as the question has been called for commissioners will now vote --- Mr. Holland: Who seconded it, Mr. Mayor? Mr. Brigham: I did. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Brigham. Mr. Holland: I figured that. Mr. Mayor: Commissioners will now vote by the usual sign. Mr. Hatney, Mr. Harper and Mr. Holland vote No. Mr. Williams out. Motion carries 6-3. Mr. Mayor: Okay, that agenda item has been disposed of. Item number --- Commissioner Hatney, point of personal ppivilege? Mr. Hatney: Yes, point of personal privilege. What does that mean? Mr. Mayor: Mr. Jessup? If I’m correct, Commissioner Hatney, and I want to say it’s just, it is simply and I went to the Internet and looked it up. It is an admonishment or a reprimand and that’s all it is. Mr. Hatney: But it really don’t mean nothing? Mr. Grantham: Nothing. Literally nothing. Mr. Mayor: No, it really doesn’t mean nothing. All righty --- Mr. Holland: --- kangaroo court. Mr. Mayor: The next agenda item I believe we have to be in Legal to receive, which I would look for a motion to move into Legal --- Mr. Brigham: Motion to approve. 49 OTHER BUSINESS 22. Motion to go into a Legal Meeting. Mr. Brigham: Motion to go to legal or the process of. Mr. Mayor: --- to cover, I’m not sure which items we have to --- Mr. Jessup: Real estate, pending and potential litigation and personnel. Mr. Mayor: Okay, we have a motion. Is there a second? Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor: Okay, commissioners will now vote by the usual sign. Mr. Williams, Mr. Harper and Mr. Holland out. Motion carries 7-0. [LEGAL MEETING] LEGAL MEETING A.Pending and Potential Litigation. B.Real Estate. C.Personnel. Mr. Mayor: Okay, you ready. Lena, you ready? I’ll go ahead and call the meeting back to order and I would look for a motion –-- 23. Motion to approve execution by the Mayor of the affidavit of compliance with Georgia’s Open Meeting Act. Mr. Brigham: I make a motion to approve --- Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor: Where’s Rev. Hatney? Mr. Bowles: He’s right here. Mr. Mayor: Okay. We’ve got a motion and a second to approve the affidavit to, open meeting affidavit. Is there any further discussion? Commissioners will now vote by the usual sign of voting. Ms. Beard, Mr. Williams, Mr. Harper and Mr. Holland out. Motion carries 6-0. 50 Mr. Mayor: Motion carries. Mr. Cheek: Motion to adjourn. Mr. Mayor: With no further business to come before the body, thank the Lord we stand adjourned. [MEETING ADJOURNED] Lena Bonner Clerk of Commission CERTIFICATION: I, Lena J. Bonner, Clerk of Commission, hereby certify that the above is a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular Meeting of the Augusta Richmond County Commission held on May 1, 2007. ______________________________ Clerk of Commission 51