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HomeMy WebLinkAboutAugust 24, 2005 Augusta-Richmond County Commis CALLED MEETING/ COMMISSION CHAMBER WORK SESSION August 24, 2005 Augusta-Richmond County Commission convened at 3:22 p.m., Wednesday, August 24, 2005, the Honorable Willie Mays, III, presiding. Present: Hons. Williams, Beard, Cheek, Handy, Colclough and Smith, members of Augusta-Richmond County Commission. Absent: Hons. Grantham, Hankerson, Sims and Boyles, members of Augusta-Richmond County Commission. The Invocation was given by Rev. Marion Williams. The Pledge of Allegiance was recited. Mr. Mayor: Madame Clerk, there are two items that are listed on the regular agenda. There are two items that I ask the Commission’s privilege to add to this agenda that have come from the airport. The director and chairman are here. It is a particular deadline that they are trying to meet and [inaudible] and I’d like to get the Commission to so add and discuss. ADDITIONS TO THE AGENDA: 1. Motion to accept FAA Grant in the amount of $1,595,000 for New Terminal Construction Project and Rehab Improvements at Augusta Regional Airport at Bush Field. 2. Motion to accept FAA Grant in the amount of $165,630.00 for security fencing, install security lights and pave access road and car parking lot at Daniel Field. Mr. Colclough: I so move to add, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Handy: Second. Mr. Mayor: Any objections to them being added? Motion carries 6-0. Mr. Mayor: They’ll be so added, Madame Clerk. And items 3 and 4, if we could, let’s take items 2, 3 and 4 in order and we’ll come back to item 1. The Clerk: 2. Motion to authorize the Mayor to sign a letter of intent to Ripken Baseball, Inc. for assignment of the existing lease at Lake Olmstead Stadium currently held by HWS Baseball, Inc. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Beck, do you want to address this? 1 Mr. Beck: Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission, as you are aware there has been a preliminary agreement between Ripken Baseball, Inc. and the HWS Baseball known as the Augusta GreenJackets for sale of the club October 1. The lease requirements for the sale of the team require that a letter of intent to assign the current lease, which we’re just into the second year of the lease extension that the Commission approved last year. They have asked by the letter that is attached that that be done at this time to authorize the Mayor to sign a letter of intent, intending that the City would honor the terms of the lease from the City’s standpoint. Mr. Cheek: I move to approve. Mr. Smith: Second. Mr. Mayor: Motion and a second. Any discussion? All in favor of the motion will do so by the usual sign. Any opposed, the same. Motion carries 6-0. The Clerk: Addendum Item 1. Motion to accept FAA Grant in the amount of $1,595,000 for New Terminal Construction Project and Rehab Improvements at Augusta Regional Airport at Bush Field. Mr. Colclough: So move, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor: Motion and a second. Any discussion? If not, all in favor of the motion— I’m sorry, Commissioner Williams? Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And I’m in favor and I think we doing a lot of pursuits when it come to grant but my question is though when this grant who is I think stated for the new airport renovation and improvements, we just did some, we just passed some money here last Commission [inaudible], Buster, on some improvements at the airport. Will this money take the place of or that money we then approved still goes out? I mean this money coming in, and maybe it’s already been figured in. I just need to get clarification. Mr. Boshears: It’s entitlements money. It’s based on emplacements that we get each year. It is part of the terminal financing plan. It’s something that we’ve already planned on. It’s just getting the actual grant. It’s a grant we get each year based on emplanements. Mr. Williams: It’s already been calculated into the budget or the things that we already projected [inaudible]? 2 Mr. Boshears: Yes, sir. Mr. Williams: You know, when Sylvia write this story she going write in [inaudible] six figure money coming in, people know we done approved some stuff already for the airport and it look like additional monies. I just want to be clear in my own head, in my own mind that the money we approve for previous work to be done, this money is already calculated and already figured. I see Mr. Johnson standing up. That might mean we’ve got some more dollars. Mr. Johnson: We’re trying to get everything we [inaudible] to try to make sure you understand. The FAA has some discretionary money. We actually count on getting that money but they could say we’re not going to get it. And if we don’t get this information back then they will take it away from us and they will pass it all to another airport. Mr. Williams: And I got my clarification. But that’s why I was asking that question because we talked about last Commission meeting as what we could do and what we couldn’t do and where the money going come from. [inaudible] this grant brought that question in my head whether or not that’s something we already figured, hoping to get, now we know we are going get it, or [inaudible] something [inaudible] we hear a lot of that, you know, up here. You talk about grant money and how grant money used and what grant money used for. We approve it, we say we understand but we really don’t understand it. That make sense? Mr. Johnson: Yes. That’s why I’m trying to—there’s a pool of money usually at the end that they have that they will based on your emplacements disburse to different airports for different projects. We are counting on getting that money but there is no guarantee that we would get it. But since they did have the pool they are giving it to us. Mr. Williams: I just don’t want Sylvia to write the story wrong. That’s all. I just wanted to make sure. Mr. Mayor: Any further discussion? All in favor of the motion will do so by the usual sign. Any opposed, the same. Motion carries 6-0. The Clerk: Addendum Item 2. Motion to accept FAA Grant in the amount of $165,630.00 for security fencing, install security lights and pave access road and car parking lot at Daniel Field. Mr. Colclough: I move to approve. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor: Motion and a second. Any discussion? All in favor of the motion will do so by the usual sign. Any opposed, the same. 3 Motion carries 6-0. Mr. Boshears: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Johnson: Thank y’all very much. The Clerk: 1. Discuss/approve 2005 Special Purpose Local Option Sales Tax (SPLOST) Phase V Resolution. Mr. Smith: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Mr. Smith? Mr. Smith: I know this is the fifth week that we ordinarily didn’t have meetings and I don’t know, I assume that the rest of our Commissioners are out of town. But it would be good if we had all ten here to be able to vote on this and I think it’s very important that we all stand firm on what we’re attempting to do. I want to make a motion that we hold this SPLOST as the $160,000,000 as been recommended by our Administrator. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor: Motion and a second that the cap remain the [inaudible] where we are. Let me say this before I recognize any Commissioners. [inaudible] it’s obviously not going to be a 5-5 tie so I won’t be voting with you. But let me clear a couple of things for the record. [inaudible] various reasons [inaudible] all the different dates that were floating around that the easiest time to have this meeting was on the day that we’ve been having it for the last five weeks. There was a little bit of confusion on yesterday and I tried to reach Ms. Cooper about it. She tried to reach me. I dealt with Mr. Eskola on yesterday and even had to answer whether or not I was holding a meeting hostage. I might be one of the biggest folk up here but I don’t think I can hold ten folk hostage. What I was trying to do was to make sure that whenever we voted or whenever we discussed this that we were thorough in terms of what we were doing. We finished up last week and to allow the public to examine some of the things we were doing, and me of all people I certainly wanted us to be able to get back this week and to have discussion on it. So I want to clear the air on that. There is no problem about when we were going to have a meeting. Obviously we were going to have one. We are here today. And we have a quorum of the Commission that’s here today. Whether any decisions are made today that will be the decision of this group in terms of making that happen, whether it stays where it is, whether we put it on a day of trying to have all ten people here as a show of unity in terms of making a final decision. But this is the day that we have been meeting on for the last five or six weeks. And I saw no reason that anybody should have any panic as though something was not going to happen today. So we are here and I think that can be put to rest and some people have made some plans in there, but you know, there is no, there is no disunity about why the Commission may or may not 4 be meeting on a particular day this week. I think everybody is in agreement we are going to have to make a decision. Now I thought today if there were going to be questions asked, whether it was on the contents of the agenda in reference to SPLOST or some things that I think we may still need to do, and Mr. Russell and I have had some conversation, I have met with different entities in the community, I’ve met with different Commissioners on this board and of talking about some things. One of the things I think that we need to do that may not necessarily be contained in this sheet that was worked on last week was the fact that there is still—and I think we need to be concerned about it as a Commission in reference to what may be fact, what may be fiction, and what may lie in between. I want to thank the Engineering Services chairman and members of that committee for when you all were meeting last week in reference to workshop in trying to get some of those numbers clear in reference to—and I guess depending upon what set of numbers you may hear, whether it’s $100 million, $130 million, $150 million, what’s clear. I think there is something that we seriously need to do unitedly as a Commission. That is even if whether the resolution is passed today, whether it’s passed on a called meeting of next week I think that we need to articulate very clearly what was discussed in that workshop, where those dollars lie, what has been spent thus far, what is committed to future projects, where the corresponding funds will come from in order to make those projects work, and what monies that we might have that are available for reprogramming out of that category. That is something that we have not done a very good job of doing. And I think when you talk to the average person they cannot understand and one of the questions that we get is why should we approve what you all are doing when there may be X number of dollars that you all have not touched or spent? I think we need to clarify that as we move along. I don’t necessarily think they have to go hand in hand on the same date when we do it but I think it’s something we should hopefully at some point unanimously commit ourselves to doing and that’s a full accounting and explanation of monies that have been spent, what is available, so that the general public can be able to look at it, to understand it. We know we cannot spend monies under law to deal with the promotion of anything about a SPLOST but I think, and the Administrator and Attorney, y’all can jump in on here and I don’t want to get illegal with anything today, but I think that there can be funds used that can give a full accounting of what has been done so that there can be a clear record of some things that are out there. Because I think that with being one of the larger categories of where monies have been traditionally spent there needs to be some things that are addressed in Public Works in reference to very, very serious corridors in our county, be it Windsor Spring Road, but it the replacement of Wrightsboro Road’s money that was switched over to Dyess Park, Dyess Parkway, very good project. But we also removed it from a high priority project and it is not there at this point, nor are there DOT funds to deal with it. I don’t think we should leave those areas with the understanding that we will do something later. When we do finalize something I think those things should be spelled out, they should be very clear in terms of how we are going to deal with those monies so that they are not in question and the people will know exactly what projects are there. I’m going to yield at this time. I have a couple of comments that I do probably want to make before we wrap up. Give the colleagues a chance to do that but I thought particularly in that category that is something that I think the committee did a good job on but it was something that was not heard by a lot of people and I think we need to have the time to clearly put that out there to do as we talked about, Mr. Russell, in terms of placing it, you know, in our daily, our weekly, our other means of electronic communication so that people will get that clear message as to what has been spent, what is really there and of where those projects are 5 committed to. That is something that I think most Commissioners probably until last week did not know themselves and I think to take this leap of faith on another $160 million of getting monies clear on what we as policy makers have just done, then we cannot expect 200,000 other people to understand that in a very short period of time, either. So those are my comments to get this started today. I know that’s a little bit off from where this page is but I think for anything to work on this page we need to clear up what’s on the page that has not yet been written nor explained, and I think that will go long way as to whatever we decide on, whether it has a hopeful chance of passing if we fully explain to the general public what is in that particular category. Because that is something that is an unanswered question that’s out there in many categories that I think can be explained. But if we do not attempt to do it and if we do a poor job of doing it, then how can we expect the general public to be able to understand that on an average person basis? And so I would yield, Commissioner Williams, you had your up first out of the chute, then Commissioner Cheek on that end, and I’ll go straight down the line, Commissioner Handy, Commissioner Colclough at this end, in that order. Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I’ve got a couple of concerns. The cap has been mentioned and I heard someone discussing on this board about a year. I didn’t get any clarification from the Attorney as to if you cap it at whatever the number is versus going to a year, what would that do, what won’t it do, what could it do if we went to a year amount, a date rather than an amount? Because if you go with an amount and the economy goes up, down or sideways and we raise that amount, we’ll have to stop it I think at that figure. We traditionally been five years and the training and the education requirement that we been taking, recommending to us that no city should go beyond seven years. And I just needed to hear from somebody as to what would be the advantage or disadvantage of going with a dollar amount versus a year and a date. Mr. Plunkett: On that issue I think there would be risk is that a time certain SPLOST, as the economy goes down, than you may not raise adequate funds to complete all the projects that you have in that SPLOST. If the economy increases, the SPLOST may be for a shorter period of time because you have raised the $160 million or whatever number. I believe the bigger risk is that if you have a SPLOST plan that’s for a time certain it doesn’t raise all the funds that it was earmarked to, that you have still have to complete those projects and the source of that revenue may be general obligation of the county. I believe that’s the bigger risk. I haven’t ever looked at that specific issue but I know there are some issues about uncompleted projects. So the benefit for the government is that you can set a number certain and if it takes you five years, six years, seven years, or two years, it stops at that point in time. Mr. Williams: And I thank you, Mr. Attorney. And that was my point, that we’ve got projects that has not been completed now that we started off with that we in our fourth—how many taxes, how many times? Okay, we going into our fifth tax and we still got what you just stated, Mr. Attorney. And I just wanted clarification because I’m thinking that the voters been coming back supporting this tax because it’s a fair tax. If we had a date or year rather than an amount it would be to our advantage. Maybe that be a disadvantage. I just want to put that out there. My other question, other statement, Mr. Mayor, is that I’m not really comfortable with what we’ve got on the table. There are some things out there and we keep saying we don’t want 6 to overload it, we don’t want the voters to turn it down. I’m in support of it but there is some serious issues, go back to what I stated a few minutes about some projects that’s not completed. And if this, if this goes through we going still have projects that’s out there that should have been completed that won’t be completed because of the amount that we’ve got in the additional stuff that we putting on here. So Mr. Mayor, I just, I’m going let the other Commissioners speak. I do like to reserve the right to come back because there is some other issues I want to address as we discuss this a little bit more. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Cheek? Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, I will be coming and will plan on having another work session next week before this meeting if we do in fact have another one next week to further work the Engineering Services issues with Public Works. The initial brush is such that it looks like we will be able to reclaim some money, recapture some money from Phases I and II. That will have us essentially declaring victory in Phase I but it will also have us sweeping the maintenance accounts that were established for the Phase I, Phase II projects and bringing those forward to either use for maintenance or additional projects. There are several Phase III projects that are near completion that we will be able to sweep for the remaining money in those projects after they’re completed to use on other projects. I will say this, that in the review with staff the opinion of staff is that though we will be on station keeping for the next few years as far as maintenance and upkeep is concerned, that there is adequate funds remaining within the first four phases of SPLOST to maintain staff and at least a reasonable level of service. There are adequate projects that will be coming online between now and the next five years in the way of major road projects that are planned out for the next few years that will keep us in construction through Phase V of SPLOST. Those, too, will provide hopefully some additional funds left over in the contingency to bring forward and use. The problems are two- fold. One is when you close out an account and finish the last shovel of dirt, yard of concrete, that the state and local entities that owe us money or that we owe money sometimes take as long as six months to close out. This has been true throughout the entire SPLOST project and is the nature of government and government accounting. It’s a very complex issue but I will say that one of the problems we’ve run into in this government in the past habits of going give years is that for political or to make sure that we have enough projects to take us through the five years we have basically prepared menus of projects that we knew could never be funded, fully funded, and that is in fact why we have so many projects now that are partially funded and that we’ve had to go back and look for recapture on. But the dollar certain figure locks us into a very simple list of projects that will be funded at those levels and then when that particular dollar certain figure is finished, whether it be early, that we will be able to go back to the polls, is my understanding, and ask for a continuation, or late, we will be able to cover those costs without those projects going short of funds. The bottom line is, Mr. Mayor, we have some monies available in Public Works but those funds are not laying there with nothing going on. When you do a $21 million road project it takes more than ten minutes to prepare the environmental statements, the erosion control studies, community impact, environmental justice and many, many other things. It involves state and federal entities, not just Augusta-Richmond County. So you can imagine Windsor Spring Road or Wrightsboro Road, some of these other projects when you’re dealing with wetlands, endangered species, who knows what we’re dealing with in a lot 7 of projects. It takes time to work them through and indeed Rome nor Augusta was built overnight. But we’ll bring that information to you. My concern, Mr. Mayor, and I’ll express it at this time and maybe reserve the balance of my time for later, is that we have a simple package that has been prepared. It involves governmental entities, it breaks my heart that we can’t fund a lot of these things at a level that we would like to fund them, but when we as a body did not take ten members to the people and support the bond, when we rushed through for whatever reason the last presentation of the SPLOST, we presented an un-unified front to the public. That is dangerous, one. And two, it brought us to the position where we are in a tight spot. We must pass this SPLOST. It must be simple, it must be a formula that is understandable, that includes the categories that have worked in the past, and that is exactly what we’ve got in a reasonable dollar figure. So I for one, while it breaks my heart not to see some of these other groups funded that need to be funded, certainly as much I’m on record in support of Recreation and Parks, it does break my heart to see us [inaudible] be we put us in the position that we’re in now. We have a Spartan SPLOST, no nonsense, a reasonable dollar amount and a workable formula and any deviation from approving that as soon as possible and then promoting it in any way legal is going to put us in the position of jeopardizing Phase V and that concerns me very deeply. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Handy and then Commissioner Colclough. Mr. Handy: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and thanks for your opening comment. I would just like to ask if there is any way possible that if there is any money left from the other SPLOSTS that we do not know about as of yet, that that monies could be used to add to our Public Works projects and there’s a possibility that monies that we have in the $160 million can be shifted to help other organizations because if you want to cap it at $160 million which we already said that we are all in agreement, then there isn’t any more monies to give anyone. But if we can shift monies that is in the other SPLOSTS that has not been completed, to Public Works for instance, then if we are giving money for Public Works projects now we can give some of that monies to other projects. That was a question I will have to ask Mr. Russell, if that’ s feasible or not. No particular organization but to give to other organizations for right now. We’ve got to first find the money. There’s no sense in promising someone something if you don’t have it. Mr. Russell: Yes, sir, Mr. Commissioner, and I think that as Commissioner Cheek pointed out, as we work through the Public Works numbers that they’ve been working through, Ms. Smith and the Chairman and the Committee has been doing a great job with that [inaudible], I think you are going to find there are some dollars there. My concern is that those dollars are going to be necessary to complete some major projects that in my mind need to be designated to some major projects that are Public Works projects that are there. The Wrightsboro Road issue that keeps coming up in my mind is major issue, as in Windsor Spring Road and those things and that will be a political decision that obviously y’all will have to make. My concern if you start looking at this particular project here, our Public Works dollars are very narrow or very limited and I think they are designed for specific projects that in my mind are crucial to our continued well being and I would be afraid—while it’s possible to do what you suggested, from my perspective, and I’d like to quote Mr. Cheek, it breaks my heart not to be able to help fund some of these other agencies that in my mind deserve the dollars. I think that you would be asking for—to start cutting on what you have in front of you and to remove dollars from Public Works 8 at this particular time based on the limited number of dollars here in my mind would not be prudent. Obviously it’s a political decision but in my mind it would not be a prudent decision to make. Mr. Handy: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Let me inject one other thing into that to Mr. Russell and Mr. Handy is that they would have to be within the same category of movement if anything were done. While the shifting of Public Works can go from one Public Works infrastructure project to another one, it could not unless you had a line item that was in there from the very beginning similar to what was done—getting SPLOST old age--I think in the 1991 proposal, I believe, that dealt with when we still had two different governments where the City had a portion in there that dealt with arts, cultural, museum and historical places which was a legally designated category. And that was the measure in terms of how some of the projects that were done, including the museum, was able to get sales tax money and to put in. That was where that was done and we did it that one particular time and when the next one came along then we were not acting under that deal but that has been one that was done and been done also on a [inaudible] basis in terms of where I think it gets to where you were talking about of where you would get to it but then you had priorities that were over that from the very beginning. But I think that would be the only way that you could list that and be able to get that done. Once it’s locked into that category it stays. We were able to shift, as you remember, to building the Aquatic Center in time, Tom, for the Georgia Games because we were able to move within Recreation to do it even though we had far more money in Public Works but we could not do anything other than parts of infrastructure in order to do that. So it’s a very clear law of how it has to be in terms of the shifting and re- prioritization. But I do think that within Public Works itself that there needs to be again, I still repeat, I still think there needs to be a clear line of what’s going to be in there during the course of this run between now and November because again I think the committee is doing a good job, done a great job. But I only look right there in front of me in terms of the calendar we’ve got in IT, and thank you for all you’re doing but I think, Mr. Russell, it’s going to be a task that we need to put together in-house along with that advertising, something that can be taken in terms of where neighborhoods may want to look at a [inaudible], be able to see what’s up on those plans, [inaudible] I think we [inaudible] access channel. I think that every bit of information that we can put out that’s in there on what has been spent, I just can’t say enough to a point of how this has taken a life of its own in terms of this $100-and-something million. And there’s a belief out there that we’ve got it, we don’t plan to do it, and if given some more it won’t get spent. And so, I mean we handle that like we want to. But if that’s not done there’s a problem and I think [inaudible] big package out and say okay, fine, it’s going to be enough money in there to do. I don’t think that’s going to cut it. I think if we’ve got enough trust and faith in each other we can move on with a package per se but I think prior to being able to get support it’s going to have to be very clear about what’s in there. I’m sorry, [inaudible]. Mr. Handy: One other thing. What I was referring to, I know about the law about moving it from one category to the other, but we have $1 million for land acquisition, flood land, and roads and drainage. That is a Public Works project. We just put that in here which we have not approved that as of yet. So if it’s not approved then it could be shifted around. That’s what I 9 was referring to. I’m not talking about something that is already approved to do a particular project with and then we try to move that. And that’s $7 million right there within that. If we had $7 on the old Public Works that we haven’t spent then that could be shifted to these two items and then you have $7 million. I don’t know the law on that, I’m just asking the question. That’s all I’m asking. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Colclough? Mr. Colclough: Mr. Russell I think wanted to respond. Mr. Russell: Commissioner Handy, you’re absolutely right. That has not been approved yet and therefore it could be redesignated to other projects. My concerns is that there are projects already on the books that the money that is currently being identified as available dollars that in my mind need to be covered and that’s a couple of big projects that did not have sufficient funding previously. The couple of projects that we did include in the Public Works area are ones that I feel to be of a crucial nature, one being the flooding of D’Antignac Street at the hospital and a couple of others there that covers that $6 million that in my mind are continuations of issues that are critical. The flood land acquisition is $1 million but is one of those things that is replaced at about a 3:1 ratio based on federal dollars so that’s an investment that brings us back an extra $3 million and I would be hesitant to remove that at this particular point in time. But you are absolutely right, none of this is in stone so it’s the will of the body where we go. What I’m telling you, though, is it’s staff best recommendation that the dollars allocated as these are is our best recommendation on how to move forward. Mr. Handy: Right. In closing, Mr. Mays, I just want to thank you for your comment and your answers. You are here every day. We hired you as the Administrator and you suggest to us what we should and should not do. And I’m listening to you right, you was a little hesitant about doing these things. It’s possible it can be done but there’s a red flag that’s up there and had to be for a reason. I’m not trying to be the Administrator nor an engineer so if there’s a reason there then if it’s legitimate enough to be concerned then I’m going to be concerned also as a taxpayer. I thank you for your comment and what you are saying but it is a political decision and that would have to be done by this body and whether it garner six votes or not. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Colclough? Mr. Colclough: Mr. Mays, I have two concerns here. I mean we’ve talked about—I share ownership of Windsor Spring Road with two or three other Commissioners but I’m concerned about Windsor Spring Road and no one has said anything definite about Windsor Spring Road. It has been mentioned two or three times here vaguely but Windsor Spring Road has been hanging out there for years and I think people talk about crucial projects are to Augusta-Richmond County, I think Windsor Spring Road is one of the crucial projects there is because it’s a gateway from the Hephzibah-McBean area, Hephzibah, Georgia, all the way up to Bobby Jones Expressway and as that area grow out there, Windsor Spring Road gets crowded and crowded every morning and every afternoon with people going back and forth out there now. That’s one of the issues I have and I need to find out some specifics about Windsor Spring Road. 10 My other concern is on this list, and I have apologize for [inaudible], the other is about the relocation of the Sheriff. I don’t see anyone here from the Sheriff’s Department, him be relocated at the old library now. His jail is out on Phinizy Road and his administration is way down on Broad Street on Greene Street, I mean I don’t see him here saying whether this is okay with him, whether he’s agreed to this move. He’s coming out of one bad building, going into another bad building. That’s one of my concerns and I think we need to hear from the Sheriff unless you’ve talked to him and he’s agreed to this move. But I think our Public Safety chief deserves better than that. Mr. Russell: Yes, sir. We’ve had that conversation and the recommendation that he’s agreed to. What we would be moving is just the administrative [inaudible] of what he’s got and the people that are actually the administrative and the Criminal Investigation Division there. The library gives you enough space and that was my recommendation. He agreed to that. Obviously, I think he’d probably—well, he agreed to it as long as we fix the roof, that’s what he said. Mr. Colclough: That’s what I said, he’s moving out of one bad building into another bad building so I mean you’re really not helping that situation at all. You’re taking a building that’s falling down, raining in it, cause the last time I was there he had pots in the floor, and you’re moving into another building where you’ve got to move the library out because it’s not a good building. I mean— Mr. Russell: The rationale behind that is I can give him a better building in the library for $5 million than I could some place else for $5 million. I’m not opposed at this point to taking the, to taking the recommendation of using the library off the table so we’re not tied into that, but— Mr. Colclough: I would just like to hear from him. If I’m going to vote on this issue I want to hear from him what is his concern. Moving one [inaudible]—I’m going to us Rev. Williams’ [inaudible] shotgun house to another shotgun house is not going to work. Okay, so you answered that question for me. Give me some specifics about Windsor Spring Road. Talk to me about Windsor Spring. I don’t know how my other two Commissioners feel about it because they share the same responsibility of that highway. Mr. Russell: Windsor Spring Road is an ongoing project. It has been ongoing for a lot longer than I’ve been in Augusta. Mr. Colclough: As long as I’ve been here. Mr. Russell: And obviously I think Ms. Smith could probably speak to the details more so than I could. I’m going to let her do that. Mr. Colclough: Ms. Smith? Ms. Smith: For Windsor Spring Road Phase IV, which is from Tobacco Road to Willis Foreman Road, the Commission approved and we requested from GDOT that the construction 11 funds for Windsor Spring Road Phase V be allowed to be used for right-of-way acquisitions on Windsor Spring Road Phase IV. And that has been done. For Windsor Spring Road Phase V, two things have to happen. First of all, we either have to have the construction funds reprogrammed by GDOT which basically means they either have to come from another project or it’s simply going to need to be done in an out year and we have to provide I believe it’s $11.2 million for right-of-way acquisition for Phase V. Mr. Colclough: That’s from Willis Foreman over to 88? Ms. Smith: That’s from Willis Foreman to Highway 88. That is correct. So the City is responsible for the $11.2 million in right-of-way acquisition for Windsor Spring Road Phase V. Mr. Smith: The part that [inaudible] over to Old Waynesboro Road, I mean Old Louisville Road, from Lowe’s on Peach Orchard to Old Louisville, that’s something that’s something that we’ve got part of the money from GDOT on that? Ms. Smith: Yes, sir. That’s neither one of these two projects. Mr. Smith: Okay. So that it is Windsor Spring? Ms. Smith: Yes, it’s just the far end. But GDOT isn’t—other than some state aid funds this isn’t federal aid money like the other parts of Windsor Spring. Mr. Colclough: From Tobacco to Willis Foreman where we’re at, specifically when are we going to break ground, when are we doing to see some dirt moving [inaudible]? We’ve been dancing with this one a long time. Ms. Smith: I think that for Windsor Spring Phase IV we are waiting on the final approval from GDOT for us to finish the right-of-way plans. Once the right-of-way plans have been approved they have to do a process to release those right-of-way funds to us and I would really hate to go on record to give you a date for that. I think that that’s supposed to start this year. Mr. Colclough: [inaudible] plans be completed? Ms. Smith: I think we’re supposed to finish right-of-way plans and start right-of-way acquisition before the end of this year. I just don’t remember exactly when. Mr. Colclough: Do those plans include taking any churches along that area? Because you know they’re going to put a big concrete divided I understand. Ms. Smith: We won’t be taking any churches. Mr. Colclough: No, no, no, no, no. Access into the churches? 12 Ms. Smith: Not all of them. We have I know at least two churches on that end of Windsor Spring that do have median openings. We just kind of closed that about two weeks ago and that information was shared with them. The concern was raised at a meeting that we had out it, I don’t remember which church it was. Mr. Colclough: [inaudible] Ms. Smith: At Jenkins. And they identified where those concerns were and I believe we added maybe four additional median openings along the entire stretch of Windsor Spring. One church had an opening, I know one didn’t, and I think we went back and added at least one other opening in that vicinity. Mr. Colclough: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Let me, let me just ask this. I know where we are on IV but I’m going to continue this just a little bit, just to jump in for a second, Ms. Beard. While we are on Windsor Spring I think if we can clear all of Windsor Spring, IV is basically intact and the question is are we going to have to reprogram all or parts of V. Is there any money within the plans that we are putting forth now and this is not to be argumentative but just for information because I think where that’s—I call it Augusta Little Five Points because that’s where, 9, 6, 4 and 8 come together. It is on Windsor Spring Road. And what have we got in there at this point that’s committed to it, I think that’s what Commissioners need to know. Not necessarily—well, I would think they need to know it prior to sometime within the packaging or at least from the standpoint of what y’all are going to have to ask for on the reprogramming. Because if anything is going to stick out from an area where you’ve just built two new schools, where you’ve got subdivisions growing like you’re growing flowers, and on a two lane road and on the largest park that we’ve got in this city in Diamond Lakes on two lane road, then we need to start talking about how much money has to go into that project. And I think the entire Commission needs to be aware of the fact of how much they’re going to have to have in available reprogramming monies to make a decision and they need to be very clear that it’s not going to be like, you know, you know, twinkle, twinkle, little star. It’s real money we’re dealing with. And prior to closing out where that gap is, I think you’re going to start to see that Public Works pot get closer to the bottom than it will be rising to the top. So are we looking out of that $11 million maybe having to reprogram $7 million, $6 million, $3 million, $8 million, $10 million or all $11 million? And because that’s one that I can guarantee you that when those Commissioners who have to face that alliance in south Augusta, that’s going to be the one road project that the public is going to ask where is it and how much money have you got to put into it and how much more are you going to have to plan to do it? You can look for that one just as sure as the sun is going to come up in the morning if we’re living. Ms. Smith: Commissioner, we currently have funds programmed for Windsor Spring Road Phase V to complete the design and we have approximately $1 million identified that would potentially cover either right-of-way or utility relocations. I think it’s going to need to cover utility relocations, which means that the entire $11 million that is identified as needed for right-of-way is unfunded. Now with respect to the phase or stage of the project, Windsor Spring 13 Road Phase IV and Windsor Spring Road Phase V have been developing together. So when we get ready to buy right-of-way for Phase IV, if we had the money we could start buying right-of- way for Phase V as well. We simply don’t have the money. Mr. Mayor: And I merely asked that question, Commissioners and the general public, not as any point of criticism but I just think that that’s a glaring example of public works in terms of a major project of how far off it may be at this point in terms of numbers and we need to seriously think about and we’re going to ask the question. And if we have to still put in on what has been identified by this Commission and by GDOT as your number one corridor project, and if you’ve got to still find nearly $11 million you just need to keep that in your thought process. And for those who aren’t here, we need to call them and tell them [inaudible] final decision about what we are doing, that’s what has to be there. And I met with a group of people this morning and of last week in the business community that are seriously concerned about our Public Works numbers, ladies and gentlemen, in there, not only the $130 million but what we have plugged in, whether it will fly or not. And I understand where the capping is but if we are going to deal with leaving the capping where it is, we better make darn sure that those things that we have promised over the last several years in more than one sales tax of where we talked about it, that it’s going to come into reality in order to do it. And that’s just again, it’s just a suggestion. Ms. Beard, you had your hand up, the Commissioner Williams. Ms. Beard: Yes. And I’d like to go back to the Sheriff ‘s administration office in the old library. I firmly believe the old library should not be used as the Sheriff’s administration building. And I say that because in the near future we hope to develop the third level of the canal and in my opinion that particular street will be one of our most important gateways from the city. I think it will be, it could be used for something much more important than this and I feel the Sheriff could find a place much more suitable. So I am hoping we will not use that building and hold on to it until we make some decisions in reference to those other things that will be going into that area. And I’d like a response to that. Mr. Russell: I just spoke to the Sheriff and he once again reiterated he had no problem with going to the old library. And he’ll be calling you tomorrow to be able to tell you that personally. And once again, I have no, no vested interest in putting the Sheriff in the library. What I was looking at is the chance to do that and get him a better building for the $5 million that we could invest. If there are other plans for the library that would be more advantageous for the community I have no problem supporting that, either. I would suggest that you, that we take the designation of moving the Sheriff to the old library out of the document and just say that we would have $5 million to relocate the Sheriff, the Sheriff’s facilities, which would keep out options open and be more effective there. As a matter of fact just yesterday I got a letter from a citizen inquiring about how much we want to take for the library. He wants to talk about buying it from us. That just came up yesterday. $11 million we’ll put it on Windsor Spring Road; right? But you know if that’s the feeling of the group, once again that was only my recommendation, trying to get the best bang for the buck there. If that’s the feeling of the group to take that away or to remove that specific thing there I have no problem with that whatsoever. Ms. Beard: Well, I’d like to place that in the form of a motion. 14 Mr. Williams: I second it. Mr. Russell: You don’t have a quorum right at the moment. Ms. Beard: We don’t? Mr. Mayor: We don’t have a quorum at the moment and we have a motion and a second on the floor. We can still do a motion and a second when that returns but you’ve got two motions, quite frankly, that are not germane to each other. You have one that’s on the cap of the total price and you’ve got one on individual category. What I’d rather see us do is to do up or down at some point the one that’s on the floor but if we’re going to do one, which the Chair will allow, but I think it needs to be done separately after that one is voted down so that they stay in the proper order that they need to be in. And I’ll be glad to recognize that, Madame Commissioner, that’s not a problem. But I just think you’ve got two conflicting motions that are out there at this point [inaudible] category [inaudible] if we’re going to deal the cap, the motion to come forth [inaudible] change the date on the [inaudible]. But when we start talking about individual items [inaudible] until we can get disposed of on the motion that’s out there. But I’ll recognize you gladly at that point. That’s the only thing we need to do is hold that. I’m sorry, Rev. Williams. Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor, I just want to make a couple of comments and I remember when that was mentioned. I don’t know how it got on the list anyway unless the Administrator just thought it was something that would be good. Mr. Russell: I just had it as a recommendation. Mr. Williams: Right, right. And that’s why I [inaudible] motion. But I want to go back to Windsor Spring Road. I don’t have a dog in that hunt out there but I do know that the growth of this city is bound for [inaudible] south Augusta. We just did the water plant, we just got the water that’s coming to south Augusta. People used to ask me why don’t y’all do something for south Augusta? They feel that we are just neglecting. But they don’t understand that. There wasn’t any water in south Augusta. You can’t put a hotel or restaurant on a septic tank. You’ve got to have the infrastructure in place and we are diligently working in that area. I thought about Wrightsboro Road and Sebastian Way but if we are, we got subdivisions growing up, Mr. Mayor, and using your words like flowers in a garden, we got Fort Gordon who has been passed over with the closing and it’s going to continue to be there. We have got to start looking seriously at that area and doing something to get it to handle the traffic and get the relief for the traffic in that area. So I just wanted to bring that up. I said earlier I’m not satisfied but I know we need this. But there is so much that we’ve been passing over for so many years and it’s really done caught up with us now. I mean [inaudible] caught up with us a couple of years ago but it’s staring us even harder in the face now. We have got to address those issues that’s going to do some things for the growth. I had a call from somebody is Sylvia’s office. Sylvia, it wasn’t you this time but somebody in your office called me about a Ruby Tuesday that’s coming in out there and what was my thoughts on it and what other entities would be coming in that area. So I just 15 know that that’s the only place we got left to grow. It’s wide open out there and I think what we need to be doing, but we have not been paying the attention, we have not been putting the efforts on that area like we need to. So I think the voters is going to want to see and want to hear something. [inaudible] don’t want a vote, don’t need a vote. But I think it’s something that we all ought to be concerned about, Mr. Mayor, we ought to look at it, where we moving money from one project to another one, that’s a place that money should be moved, should be utilized. That’s [inaudible] you talking about [inaudible] people coming back and forth and even moving out in that direction. So my comments is that the money we need for that ought to be found somewhere to go in that direction in order to get that process going. We been talking about it for at least six years that I been down here. [inaudible] and I’m sure something have but it’s not ready for the type infrastructure and stuff that we need because we have not moved on it. My comments. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Handy? Mr. Handy: One other comment, Fred. On the relocation of the Sheriff, I’m assuming that you’re aware of the audio visual building behind the main library that’s owned by the State and we’re going to have to have parking for the administration. The next land that we own is on Walker Street, say south, where the judicial center is going. That land that is part of the [inaudible] think about putting the old, not the old, but the new law enforcement. Not law enforcement. Crime lab. Originally before you came. That’s across from the post office there. Are we going to need additional parking for the Sheriff if he goes in that building, or if we ask for the building now that the State is on and we tear it down, that that will be sufficient for parking there, for whatever the Sheriff, if we moved him there? Mr. Russell: That would actually help the parking at some point. But what we’re looking for is that we’ve got to provide some additional parking for the Bankruptcy Court in that area as part of the agreement that we did there. The library itself will require some additional parking as will the Sheriff. But if you look at the Sheriff’s operation itself, once you take away—if you go over there today you see lots and lots of cars all over the place. Once you take away the courtroom and the jail facility, his parking needs are reduced dramatically and we’ve talked about that. So I think that the plans that we had made would be sufficient to getting him the parking spaced he would need. Mr. Handy: Okay. Thank you. That’s all, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Let me, let me ask this since Public Works seems to be a part of this [inaudible]. I yield, Ms. Smith. Did you want to say something? Ms. Smith: Just one comment and I just want to bring to the body’s attention. Today we need $11.2 million for Windsor Spring. That number is based on the escalation factors being included for right-of-way starting at the end of this year. If we do not do it with this phase of sales tax and we wait five years until the next phase of sales tax, the number will not be $11.2 million. So I just want to make sure that as I stated $11.2 million today, if we come back in a few years everybody understands the number will not be $11.2 million. 16 Mr. Williams: It’s going to less? Ms. Smith: It will be more. Mr. Williams: Well, you said not going to be, I just wanted to be sure. And that’s something that need to be said and that’s why I asked you that question. Mr. Russell: And that happens, that occurs with each of these projects, too. Anything that we don’t build now is going to be more expensive in the future and I agree with that fully. So we’ve got to be prepared. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Russell, you and I have talked about this being a day of sort of trying to get in some things to mop up and to clarify and then maybe even of taking another one so that hopefully we could reach a united decision in terms of moving on. I think it’s important that, and I think we’ve had very good information brought out and from the standpoint of being able to do it in an agreeable way. But I think it’s important when you think about [inaudible] and you’re talking about $11 million I think to identify the other corridor that we’ve talked about, I think it’s important to put those funds in in their entirety from the standpoint of Windsor Spring or Wrightsboro Road [inaudible] and it gives us a more realistic figure in terms of what’s left to even think about reprogramming. Because if those are going to remain high priority items then you’ve got to be able to take that away from the overall total of what’s in that, that fact or fiction number of the $100+ million and of where it’s lying around in order to do something with. And I think we’ve got to be committee to a point of looking at those versus where maybe we’ve already purchased right-of-way and have invested money on as being ones that may not be the ones that you want to touch first. I think those that you’ve not invested money and expended those funds on need to be the place that you look in terms of being able to move a dollar first because it would be very, very wasteful to have gone into a project whereby you expend funds and take away and buy something, then you go there and say okay we’re going to abandon that and then move to something else which is very necessary. But I don’t think that’s a very prudent way that we [inaudible] and I’m just making that observance because we’re in meeting/work session format. Let me bring another point to clear since we’re talking about clarity on some things. I think there was some fuzziness in reference to when one of the projects brought for the, for the last sales tax, for instance, dealing with Public Works, dealing with infrastructure, where are we at this point over in the Laney-Walker area and on Laney-Walker Boulevard and into an area in reference to where there has been movement, displacement of residents, people moving out, and in the part that we were to deal with with the Board of Education. And the reason why I say some confusion, some people look at that as a school project but that was to be intended as a community project. Now, some of you just got out of a meeting the other day in reference to the situation with Glenn Hills Stadium, Breeze Hill, who is at fault, who is not at fault. What I’m looking at to a point that if there has been that much movement over in there, I think we need to get some clarity as to whether that project is on tap for the infrastructure. If there’s going to be a major stadium built in that area and whether or not the City’s infrastructure is going to be able to support what is in there or not, I think those are the kinds of things that we need to talk about still as to where they are, whether they’re going to be in there, because if you’ve got a beautiful 17 corridor that has been created out there and I said this not in a, in a, in a flippant way this morning to some people, that if we’ve still got stuff to correct that’s on that boulevard when we’ve got high rains, and if you turn around and you’re going to build a stadium in that area whereby what’s coming and what’s there do not mix in terms of support for that infrastructure you can get rod and reel and fishing poles because that’s what you’re going to have in the middle of that boulevard. I’d like to know where that stands on that Public Works agenda or is that an item, too, that we are going to have to deal with reprogramming? And that’s not in being critical. That’s just on information basis. I have been asked by people in that area to a point and I think that it’s a right to know, particularly after the disruption that we didn’t cause it, but now that’s an area that contain homes, it contain people and [inaudible] at least to a point everything that we put on sales tax before has been basically stuff that we talked about putting in. So now if we’re here to a point if that infrastructure will support it. And mind you I’m not talking about [inaudible], I’m talking about infrastructure to be supported. We cannot allow that to happen in an area if it will not support what is going to be there and I think it’s going to [inaudible] that’s going to build it, they’re going to build one of some size. And we need to be knowing whether or not there is a dollar figure associated with it. I’m trying to get to that one, too. Ms. Smith: Are you speaking in reference to the infrastructure that is going to be needed to support the stadium? Mr. Mayor: Yes, ma’am. Ms. Smith: Okay. Actually we met and the Utilities Department has coordinated with the Board of Education on that. I think that as far as the stadium was concerned I think the water line [inaudible] Laney-Walker was sufficient. I think there are some upgrades that are going to be done off of Laney-Walker in respect to closing a loop on the water line. And when we did the Laney-Walker project we actually increased the size of the storm drain in Laney-Walker because we had met with the School Board and were aware that that project was going to be coming down the pipe a little bit later. Now there are some existing streets out there that I think they have already been dedicated, the Commission has already taken action to dedicate those streets where the stadium would replace them and we’ve got some drainage features in there and we’re coordinating with the Board to make sure that that water is handled adequately for [inaudible] to go into those old drainage systems. Mr. Mayor: I guess to finalize what I’m saying there, because you mentioned about what Utilities is doing. [inaudible] somewhat because this was over in Public Works’ side in the beginning to deal with it. Now my take on it is I’d just like to see it handled. I’m like the average citizen, I’m not really concerned about where the pot comes from. But what I am concerned about is whether the water goes. Because see even with what y’all have done out there right now, even from Ms. Bonner and before her Ms. Beard were going to Laney, it’s been flooding in the middle of Laney-Walker Boulevard and then when you’ve done what we’ve just done now it still floods in Laney-Walker Boulevard. So I’m concerned about the fact that when a new stadium is built over there, that’s basically on flat land and parking where then does God’s water go? Is there still—if the money can be taken from Utilities, if that’s a match for it to be done, then I don’t have any problem with the source. But I just want to make sure that it’s not 18 one of those things where the Board said we thought the City was going to do it, Public Works said we thought Utilities was going to do it, Utilities said we thought Public Works was going do it. I think there needs to be some clarity on that, not to decide today where or how we do it, but I just think that’s one of those biggies that if we are going to talk about reprogramming we do not need to beautify a corner to look that good, to turn around there and build something that we are going to have to dig up the rest of the street and try and fix that area in order to get it done. I’m just trying to clarify that. While we’ve an inter-departmental discussion going on, Commissioner Handy, you were next. And then Commissioner Smith. Unless y’all are ready to go on this [inaudible]. Mr. Russell: I think you brought forth a good point on that. And one thing you need to be aware of, too, is that at some point early in our discussions last time we talked and there is a continuing dialogue between Utilities and Public Works about that and something we need to stay on top of. [inaudible] Mr. Hicks: Mr. Mayor, the Utilities part of it will be sanitary sewage and drinking water, not to deal with storm sewer. Mr. Mayor: And that’s why I brought that up because that portion of it only handles one part of it. Because as you build the stadium and obviously there is going to be, unless it’s going to be dug out and done and going in from the top of it as you would do in a more expensive stadium, you probably are going to have ground level situations which if that’s the case it’s going to really be above ground level. That means you’ve got drainage that’s coming off and it’s got to come back somewhere and you’ve got to deal with parking lot drainage. So I mean I’m just throwing that because if was a major one into a corridor where also a lot of other things have been cut and I think if you are going to at least stick with Public Works and drainage and infrastructure than that’s at least a small price to pay, particularly in that area, [inaudible] other things are going to be back to goose eggs and cut out in their entirety. That at least needs to be done right because we have got a destination point over there. And I’m not going to even get to that point today because we are trying to keep what we’ve got hopefully to a point of [inaudible], Mr. Russell, but I think you know, I think you know where my real feelings like to a point that I think that we’re not creating a lot of drawing cards with this deal and [inaudible] but it’s going to be with Public Works. If that’s going to be our emphasis and on our basic needs then I’m going to be darn sure that whether it’s in the west, the south or in the inner city or down in the bottom that we cover those needs and that we have them there and that we articulate them and put them out there where folk will know what they are voting on. And I think the Commission first needs to know what it’s voting on because right now we’ve gotten up to the tune of probably $17 million to $18 million that is going to have to be reprogrammed from somewhere out of what you’ve got already. And can you do that reprogramming adequately with what we’ve got? And I think that’s the question that’s going to have to seriously be answered by the policy makers of this city. That’s not, and I’m not being critical. I’m just being realistic and honest. Mr. Russell: By our rough numbers, sir, we’re at about $21 million, $22 million. And there’s not much money to reprogram. We’re not even close. So you’re right, that’s a policy decision that you’re going to have to make. 19 Mr. Mayor: Are you saying there’s not enough to reprogram, or we’ve not reprogrammed? Mr. Russell: No, I’m saying no matter how good we are, we’re not going to come up with that kind of dollars to be reprogrammed. Mr. Mayor: Well, what I mentioned is in three corridors and it’s ironic that [inaudible] three corridors distinctly of this city, downtown and in the Medical College area, a stadium going where you just invested in University, we’ve got Cancer Center and research over there at MCG, historic Laney-Walker that’s in there, and what we’ve got going west and to the malls, to the shopping areas and businesses, the subdivisions that are out there, and also the [inaudible] south Richmond, I do not think we are prepared to vote today. That’s just a personal suggestion. But I think we need to find a way to deal with those infrastructure needs that are there. We said we were going to make it bare bones and cover the needs of the people, not necessarily with [inaudible] basically been satisfied to say [inaudible] don’t like it, we’ll fall on that sword, we’ll back off of it if we have to. But I think in infrastructure details we’ve got some talking to do, I think, in order to gain confidence of folk. And you’ve got to line out what you’ve got, that which has been spent, that which is clear that’s out there, and that amount that has to still be reprogrammed. And I’m just making that observance to a point because if [inaudible], everything that we’ve named so far, that’s a basic necessity that’s there and it may mean that some of these other folk that’s at the top up here, now they may have to be the ones that wait because this has not been approved. It may be where somebody’s square footage on a building may have to get a little bit smaller. Because if we are going to talk about keeping the rain off folk, if we going to talk about drainage, we are going to talk about flooding, we are going to talk about putting roads and infrastructure that’s adequate to be able to take care of growth, not potential growth. Growth that’s already run us over but in a positive way. And you’ve got to may those folk comfortable. They live there. They got to go home every day. And remember those who [inaudible] took that money and matched it over there on St. Sebastian, and I hate to say I told you so, and that was a good project. But I also said on that day it was getting folk out of the city, we’ve got to do something for those who live here. And who stay here. And who work here. I’ll yield to the gentlemen down on the left. I think Mr. Smith, you had your hand up. Mr. Smith: Mr. Mayor, I made a motion about an hour ago that we cap this at $160 million for SPLOST V and I would like to call for the question. Mr. Mayor: I heard your call and the Chair is also, Mr. Smith, trying to move with getting some information and we are not fast tracked and side tracked. Now, we can either talk about where some of those needs are today, we can talk about them on a different day. I don’t have a problem with moving on the cap. But I think when people are not informed and they’re going to make the decision as policy makers, if they are willing to move blindly into the dark to try and lead 200,000 other folk on a number that they don’t know where it’s taking them, then the last time that happened they had some help from somebody greater than all of us and the Red Sea got parted then. But I think we don’t really have a hold on some of this that we’ve got. And 20 I agree with you, we can move on with it but I think if you are going to leave these projects out here not knowing when and where you are going to put the dollars and how you are going to do it. I was satisfied, Mr. Cheek, that as long as we had some reprogramming money to go back to, but now when I’m hearing to a point there is nothing to turn to then that creates another issue to a point of how do you address those Public Works needs? And I think that’s why you have a work session and a meeting to discuss it. But now I’ll recognize you and if you all want to go ahead on and vote to deal with the cap, the cap’s good, and it’s good to set that [inaudible], but if you don’t have a way that you’re going to get those done, and you can say we’ll just do it later, in typical Augusta-Richmond County fashion. I told you what would happen in June and I can basically tell you what’s going to happen in November unless we answer those things in an intelligent way and lay it out for folk, it’s not going to [inaudible]. [inaudible] all you want. Mr. Handy: Mr. Mays? Mr. Mayor: Andy had his hand up, Mr. Handy. Mr. Handy: But that was before you went to Ms. Smith down there and you were supposed to came by here first. You just forgot. Mr. Mayor: I didn’t know you had your hand up. Mr. Handy: Right. Okay. Yeah, you did. You said I’ll recognize you. Mr. Mayor: I apologize. Go ahead, Mr. Handy, then Mr. Cheek, and then y’all can go on and vote. But I’ll say this for the record because I ain’t going to say [inaudible]. Mr. Handy: [inaudible] Mr. Mayor: Just a minute. Mr. Handy: I’m sorry. Mr. Mayor: I will, [inaudible] to Mr. Eskola and some others, I’m going to support our package that we put out here. Whatever it ends up being is the one that we’ve got to end up living with and doing. It won’t be a half-hearted level of support to do. I think when we come up with it, I’m hoping that when we have the full meeting our ten folk that we actually will get a unanimous vote in order to do it. I just want to say that for the record, that I’m going to do that. But I do take issue to a point that when we don’t want to take the time to at least know intelligently what we are doing and the problem with that. Mr. Handy and then Mr. Cheek. Y’all can go ahead [inaudible]. Mr. Handy: Yes, sir, Mr. Mayor. I only wanted to say that the can of worms that I so eloquently opened up was not to reprogram money to get all what we’ve gotten thus far. I had no idea about the, the question I asked you, Fred, about the monies that we possibly be getting back—the question of the $100-some-odd million in sales tax money that we had laying aside 21 doing nothing. Well, based on the conversation we had now we done spent that $150-something th million and we still need more money. But right behind A.R. Johnson at 13 and [inaudible] Street is a fish pond when it rains. That’s just one of those items we was talking about and I just happened to remember that particular one because there was a lot of questions and concern about the school and a school at that particular time that everything [inaudible] flooding. That came up when Mr. Mays was talking about the infrastructure and so if we need all those things, if we vote on this SPLOST that’s for five years, that stadium is going to be built before five years from now hopefully. So how are you going to handle all of that if we do what we are doing now? Based on all of the information that you have received here today, do you have any concerns? You don’t have to answer that in public. Mr. Russell: I’d love to answer that, sir. Mr. Handy: Okay. Do you have some concerns that what we doing is not what we need to do, that we need to look at this $160 million, or cut something on this $160 million in order to satisfy the needs that have came up so far today? Mr. Russell: I think we could spend the rest of the day and probably into the night and tomorrow morning identifying needs that Augusta has that are very, very important to people, be they people that live on land that’s next to places that flood, be they people who live in subdivisions that have traffic in front of them, be they prisoners in jail, or deputies that work in the jail and sewerage comes down through their office because of the facility itself. And that’s not the issue. I think each of you agree is very, very, very important questions. And very, very important concerns. Commissioner Mays, Commissioner Williams, Commissioner Cheek, Ms. Beard, and all of you have raised very, very big concerns and very, very valid issues. The question that I keep asking myself is where do you want to start? We can’t solve all these problems unless you want to put in a SPLOST that has lots more money in it than I think the citizens are going to be willing to vote for. We can’t solve problems that have been there for twenty years unless you want to put forth a program that requires lots and lots of money, you know, that’s there. The hard part that you have is to take the information that we’ve been trying to give you and make those decisions on what you think is appropriate for us to do. This isn’t my program. This is a recommendation that I’ve made based on the professional staff and the people that are around me, and listening to y’all for about a year-and-a-half discussing our needs. Do I think it’s perfect? Heavens, no. Never have and never will. But there is a place to start and this is it. If you want to add $21 million that takes us to $189 million-something. Will that pass? I don’t know. And that’s the issue that is unfortunately—or fortunately for me your decision to make. Whatever you want to put in here is fine with me. What you’ve got in front of you is the recommendation that I and the professional staff thinks the best that we can do. But that’s got to be tempered by politics just like you said a little while ago and the burden is on y’all. I’d love to be able to put in $11 million to fix Windsor Spring Road. Or $2.5 million to fix whatever. Or whatever it would take to fix that lake that gets created behind Johnson School when it rains. But there is a priority decision that has to be made and you’ve got my recommendation but I live with your priorities. And that’s, that’s all we’re doing. The problem is that your priorities and my recommendation have to pass the litmus test of the voters. And we haven’t been—the last 22 two times we’ve tried that, we haven’t done a very good job. So, you know, we’re getting pretty hard up at the moment. And I apologize, but you asked my opinion, sir. Mr. Handy: Yes, sir. And I accept your opinion and I’ll decide when I vote how [inaudible] going to go based on what you just said. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Cheek? Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, I don’t know if I want to start basin by basin or street by street on flooding problems. I’ve been fighting this [inaudible] since I’ve been here. We have identified $90 million plus worth of draining issues in this city. We will not in any way, shape or form unless we dedicate the entire SPLOST package to cover the drainage issues in this city. Marion has inherited a District that has the largest flood plain in the city of Augusta. The only thing that is going to solve that is rehabbing Oats Creek, digging out around Glendale, cleaning out the channels, $3 million to $4 million worth of channels we’ve put in and concreted in that are silted up, just like Oats Creek. We need to dredge the bottom end of Oats Creek, we need to open the bottom end of the canal, the third level, in order to have it drained down Phinizy ditch and [inaudible] drain east Augusta and Laney-Walker. And I can go on and on about what we need to do. The money ain’t there. We are in a tight spot. If we don’t pass the SPLOST, ladies and gentlemen, we’re going to lose thirty-plus percent of our staff in Public Works to funding issues that won’t be covered. What are we going to do then when they’re standing in the unemployment line? Grieve over them because we didn’t do a better job on SPLOST? We can add to the list, we can change the list around, some things are just going to have to wait. I’ve resolved myself to that and I’d like to Phase II at Diamond Lakes complete, I’d like to see the drainage projects built that we have fought over so hard down here, so many of the other things that need to be done in this city, but they are just going to have to wait. Thirty- plus percent of our employees in Public Works will lose their jobs if we don’t pass SPLOST. Get the message? That’s just in Public Works. And there are other departments that are depending on SPLOST funds to keep staff employed to manage SPLOST projects. We can hem and haw around here and talk about not the perfect list. I can go street by street and basin by basin or drainage issues or road issues and anything else. The bottom line is the capacity of Public Works to take care of the projects. We do have over $100 million sitting there now that hasn’t been spent in four years. Period. So if we add another $100 million to Public Works the bottom line is we’re going to have another $125 million in four years or five years unspent if we don’t change the way we do business. Now we have got a serious problem on our hands and it’s called public perception. Now we can fight about this and drag it out but the more time we fight about it the less time we have to promote this very no-nonsense, common sense SPLOST package that is before it. And it is not perfect and I don’t like it because a lot of things I’d like to see done in this city are off. But we as ten people did not [inaudible] the grand vision that the bond package and subsequent SPLOST package could have been. We fought amongst ourselves in the public. We actively went out and fought against the package to the public, some of us. If we do not change the direction we’re only going to repeat the mistakes of the past and I will not be one of the people on this board who is responsible for seeing probably 100-150 people in this city government lose their job when they’ve been working so hard for us and that’s where we’re at. So I just hope that we will consider where we’re at before we start tinkering with the list, 23 before we start hoping for bigger and better things because it’s going to have to wait. The money is not there. We’ve got a good list and this body can deliberate forever. But for every day we deliberate we lose a day towards promotion. We can’t afford to lose one minute towards promotion. So, Mr. Mayor, I know it may not pass today with a vote, but my main concern is not passing today and getting the particular street I want paved, it’s those jobs, it’s these bigger projects, and I’m going to say one other thing and I’m going to shut up. I’ve fought for two years at least on the project at the top of the list, of reducing that. And some of the board members on here wanted to build an 80-story tower, wanted to do all these other grandiose things and wouldn’t even address cutting that down to where we could use it for other projects. It made me smile when you said that earlier. There are a lot of things that need work out here, a lot of things that we won’t be able to cover. That’s the bottom line. But what we are covering are things we must have, not necessarily want to have but must have. And you know I’m not a public relations expert but I do know the drainage of this city, I do know some of the other engineering aspects of this city. We’re never going to be able to cover the cost and as far as the recapture money we’ll probably get ¼ of what’s necessary, what you mentioned earlier, to put that in real perspective. But we’ve got to work on this package and we’ve got to work on it together and if we can’t do that then we need to call the vote off today and walk away from it until we can get heads in one place. Mr. Mayor: Ladies and gentlemen, I think we’ve got obviously some things that are coming. One, the chairman of Engineering Services and I started off talking about what was not on here in reference to what we needed to do in terms of clarity on another issue. I think that’s something that can be worked [inaudible] in progress. I think, Andy, you all probably over the course of the next week, ten days, two weeks be able to deal with that, move [inaudible] where we can get that out, get it talked about. The motion that [inaudible] deal with the cap that we have I think that will at least send a signal of the amount of money that we plan to work within and I think there are details that you can work on the other. I actually think the discussion has been good because I still think you’ve got to get clear in terms of what you are actually going to vote for, particularly in that Public Works category. But hopefully even with the number that we’ve got here today that that can at least get passed and then be able to move to the next stage of where we need to go. So Mr. Williams and [inaudible]. Mr. Williams: If I can get clarification. I just want to get some clarification, Mr. Mayor. We voted last time on the SPLOST to do a cap and if we vote for this cap and it’s passed, I mean am I to understand that we are going to either approve, if it’s approved today or are we going to have to deduct from what we got here if anything here is different? I mean I guess that’s what I want to know. I mean I hear and I know we need a cap. I agree with you that we need to dialogue some more about what we are doing and where we are. But I’m just asking a question because I’m thinking if we approve a cap of $160 million that’s what we are going to shoot for, that’s what it going to be. Well, if there are some problems and Commissioner Cheek brought some very interesting points about the drainage and the infrastructure we need to do. Well, it’s several and I checked them off. I got six, seven items on here that’s not [inaudible] people that’s concerned about it. But only the things that Commissioner Cheek talked about, the voters is going to be in agreement with [inaudible] trying to do. The things that are on this list that I checked off, it’s going to have some people to vote for but it’s not going to be the mass of 24 people. So I’m thinking if we cap it all at $160 million that’s what we are going to have to deal with. Is that the way the vote, just want to clarify that. Mr. Mayor: Whatever we vote on stands until, quite frankly, unless you unvote it. And I say that not to be facetious but it stands in terms of that figure. And if six votes on another day, then [inaudible]. But if we vote to cap it at the $160 million that’s where it is for this point in time and probably will be the number that you’ve got to work within. And this will be the first time that we’ve done this on a numbered figure. Everything else has been based upon either four years in the beginning or the five year extensions where there was a definite run-out date time. This one does not in terms of money. Like I say if it’s a good economy it runs out quickly. If it’s not do good you may continue it. So you actually entering in some new ground in the government because you’ve not done it this way before. Commissioner Handy? Mr. Handy: Yes, sir, Mr. Mayor. I just want to say one final thing about the motion on the floor today. If I look at the list there is $140 million that is within the District that I represent right now. $140 million. Now, I did not ask the former Mayor to resign when he did and left. But I did ask to have the opportunity to come back here and work on this Commission for Augusta. Now there is no way that any Commissioner could sit up here and think that within three weeks that I can come up here and know about all the things that you all have talked about two or three years ago. And when I’m trying to get a clarification on whether or not I should or should not vote for something based on that, then don’t come up with all the things that we could do or should do. I don’t know that. I wasn’t here when you came up with those ideas. Unfortunately, the Mayor decide to pack it and run. Then we had to have an interim mayor. Then we had to have interim Commissioner. Well, interim doesn’t tell you that I’ve been here every meeting that you all had and I know everything that you all are talking about, but when I push this button up here that means that I’m agreeing with everything that you all are talking about. And how can I agree with something that I don’t know anything about? That’s all I have to say. Mr. Cheek: Me, too. Mr. Williams: [inaudible] Mr. Mayor: No further discussion, there is a motion and a second to deal with the, with the cap. I will say this on behalf of my former Super District colleague. He and I talked both last night and today. He was going to try and get a call in to us in the middle of the day, that being from Mr. Grantham. And we were hoping, quite frankly, that—and my main reason for this actually being a meeting/work session was to get out some of what we’re getting out today. And hopefully that when we are at full strength and to be at a full Commission that we could get approval by an overwhelming majority of this Commission even with differences that are there and things we might like to see, to be able to get it passed and to be able to get it moving. And hopefully that can occur. There is only one motion. Nobody has made another one to deal with [inaudible] and I’ll have to carry the one that is out there. But—you want to say something, Fred? 25 Mr. Russell: I just want to thank you for the dialogue. I think it’s been very valuable and these are tough decisions and hard things to do and I think that you’re being prudent in making sure that we understand and get it right as best we can. Mr. Williams: I’d like to make a substitute motion that we go five years and not a dollar amount versus $160 million [inaudible] or whatever it is. Mr. Colclough: Can’t hear you on this end. Mr. Russell: Can’t hear you. Mr. Williams: I make the substitute motion, Mr. Colclough, that we go with a year, with a date rather than an amount. I just don’t see how we can get what we going to get anyway but I think five year, the Mayor mentioned earlier, that if the economy is good we may raise more than that. And if we raise more it will probably be [inaudible] been normally doing here anyway is having a year versus a dollar amount. Mr. Mayor: There is no second to that motion. The original motion is the only one that’s on the floor. The substitute dies for lack of a second. All in favor of the original motion of holding a cap at the, at that particular number, Ms. Bonner, would you so state it for me, please? The Clerk: $160 million cap. Mr. Mayor: $160 million? The Clerk: Yes, sir. (Vote on original motion) Mr. Williams abstains. Motion fails 5-1. Mr. Mayor: Madame Clerk? The Clerk: Yes, sir? Mr. Mayor: Do you have before you—if everyone would remain in place for just a moment I need to set a meeting time kind of right now. Ms. Beard: [inaudible] the library? Mr. Mayor: If you let me finish asking her this question [inaudible]. I just want her while we’re doing that vote [inaudible] Monday’s schedule before we lose the folk I’ve got in here. Because I think we need to go ahead on it [inaudible] in order to [inaudible]. The Clerk: The schedule for Monday— 26 Mr. Mayor: For Monday, what do we have that’s blank? The Clerk: Well, 9:00 a.m. is the called meeting to receive the Housing & Economic Development audit and you asked for a two hour span on that. Then you have a called meeting, legal meeting at 11:00. And then we have our regularly scheduled committee meetings starting at 12:30. Mr. Mayor: Ladies and gentlemen, if we could between now and Tuesday, if we could check in with the Clerk’s office I’d like to be able to get a majority of Commissioners, hopefully since most of you will be here on Monday for committees then we could probably try and squeeze that in to do it. If not then we’ll have to move in terms of Tuesday and being able to have that meeting in order to get that done. The Chair recognizes Ms. Beard for the purpose of making a motion. While they’re side barring, I’ll recognize Ms. Beard. I don’t want to lose a quorum. If you’re going to get a motion in, I’m going to let her get it in. Ms. Beard: I’d like to make a motion that we take the old Library off the table as the place for the Sheriff’s administration building. The Clerk: Remove the designation of the old library for the relocation of the Sheriff’s administration office. Is that it? Ms. Beard: Yes. Mr. Mayor: Need a second or it does. Mr. Williams: I second it. Mr. Mayor: Motion and a second. Ms. Beard: May I add one thing? Mr. Mayor: Go ahead. Ms. Beard: I’m simply thinking about the future and I do feel that this in the long run will be the best decision for the City of Augusta. Mr. Mayor: There is a motion and a second. All in favor of the motion will do—I’m sorry. Mr. Cheek: I won’t belabor the point long but if we’re not going to put a facility in there, I would rather have the Sheriff than an empty building which is what we are going to have at that property, that discussion be undertaken if we pass this with the library to put that in the Land Bank, to have it sold for commercial or other development because it will be an empty building if we don’t. 27 Ms. Beard: It will not. That is not what I have in mind. I’m sorry. Mr. Mayor: Jimmy? I mean Mr. Smith, I’m sorry. Can I get [inaudible] it’s on the motion. Ms. Bonner can take that off, with Sheriff’s Department use. That’s the motion that on there right now. We’ve had adequate discussion on it. All in favor of the motion will do so by the usual sign. Any opposed, the same. Mr. Handy: We voting to take it off? The Clerk: The remove the designation of the old library for the relocation of the Sheriff’s administration offices. Administrative offices. Ms. Beard: That it will be placed someplace else. Mr. Handy: I don’t know anything about what’s going on there. If staff has agreed, he recommended— Mr. Mayor: I go on and get y’all to vote because I remind you of a big overriding factor. You don’t have a cap figure set so all that is really immaterial. So let’s go on and carry the motion and get out of here. Mr. Handy abstains. Motion fails 5-1. [MEETING ADJOURNED] Lena J. Bonner Clerk of Commission CERTIFICATION: I, Lena J. Bonner, Clerk of Commission, hereby certify that the above is a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Called Meeting/Work Session of the Augusta Richmond County Commission held on August 24, 2005. ___________________________________ Clerk of Commission 28