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Home My WebLink About08-05-2003 Regular Meeting REGULAR MEETING COMMISSION CHAMBER August 5, 2003 Augusta Richmond County Commission convened at 2:15 p.m., Tuesday, August 5, 2003, the Honorable Bob Young, Mayor, presiding. PRESENT: Hons. Hankerson, Boyles, Mays, Kuhlke, Colclough, Shepard, Beard, Cheek, Williams and Bridges, members of Augusta Richmond County Commission. Also Present: Jim Wall, Attorney; George Kolb, Administrator; Lena Bonner, Clerk of Commission. The Invocation was presented by the Rev. O. E. Wells. The Pledge of Allegiance was recited. Mr. Mayor: I would like to ask unanimous consent of the Commission, if I may, to recognize our Public Utilities Department for a moment. Mr. Colclough: So move, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor: No objection heard. RECOGNITION: Awards presented to Augusta Utilities Department Georgia Water & Pollution Control Association Mr. Mayor: The Public Utilities Department was recently recognized by their peers across this state [inaudible] share these awards with the Commissioners and [inaudible].. The Clerk: Yes, sir. Mayor Young, this letter is to request recognition for awards presented to the Augusta Utilities Department at the Georgia Water & Pollution Control Association Annual Conference. The GW&PCA recognizes the top water and waste water plant operators throughout Georgia. Augusta is pleased to announce that William A. Elliott, III, an operator in our Highland Avenue Water Treatment Plant, was recognized as the top operator for District 6. The GW&PCA recognized drinking water facilities in the state that have 100% compliance with their 2002 Georgia system permits. But Augusta’s Highland Avenue Water Treatment Plant and the Peach Orchard Ground Water Treatment Plant received the Gold Award for achieving 100% compliance. GW&PCA also recognized exemplary public education programs that promote both the understanding of the water and waste water industry and the important of protecting our 1 water resources. Augusta Utilities Department was recognized as one of the 2003 Distinguished Large System Programs for their work in Augusta’s schools, their formation of the Augusta Watershed Roundtable, and their septic tank education programs. Our mission is to provide water that exceeds all federal, state and local regulations and provide waste water service that inspires public confidence, all done in an environmentally friendly manner. The awards received at this state conference further demonstrate our commitment to providing quality service to the citizens of Augusta. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Mayor: I might add that the [inaudible]. For our next item on the agenda, Madame Clerk, another recognition. The Clerk: Yes, sir. The South Augusta Sidewinders RE: Qualified for play in the United States Specialty Sports Association’s World Series July 20-27 in Gulfport Mississippi. The Clerk: Chris Kane will do our roll call. Mr. Mayor: Chris, if you’ll join us. We’re certainly pleased to have these young folks here who represented Augusta, Georgia out at Gulfport. You guys did a marvelous job out there and we appreciate your presence and what you do to promote this City and promote athletics in Augusta Richmond County, and Chris, I’ll turn the mike over to you. Mr. Kane: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Commissioners, ladies and gentlemen, it’s a pleasure to be here to honor one of the outstanding Little League Baseball teams in Augusta. A little background on the Augusta Sidewinders, an 11-year-old baseball team. They played in the World Series as the Mayor just mentioned last month. They finished rd 23 at the World Series. I believe there were over 40 teams participating. They also beat the #1 ranked team in the country. Just an amazing accomplishment. And based on that nd win, their final ranking was 52 in the United States. I believe there’s 3,000 teams in the nd country in that division. So 52, that’s pretty amazing. Before we announce the coaches, we’ll save that for last, I want to bring up the players one by one, special award for every one of those guys. Let’s start with #51, Joseph Boatright. Jo Jo is his nickname. He’s a pitcher and an outfielder. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Kane: #6, John Butckwitz, second baseman. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Kane: #14, Bryson Crouch, he’s a pitcher/second baseman. 2 (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Kane: #31, David Hargins, a catcher. He also plays outfield. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Kane: #12, Michael “The Gun” Holley. With that nickname, we know he’s a pitcher. Also an outfielder. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Kane: #8, Dallas Kirkendahl. Outfielder. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Kane: #7, Shawn McCane, pitcher. And he’s also a catcher. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Kane: #28, Alex McKeller. Third baseman. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Kane: Tony Miller, he’s a shortstop. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Kane: #4, centerfielder, Jerry Robinson. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Kane: #11, maybe the best nickname on the team, Dalton “Pacman” Self. He’s a first baseman. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Kane: And #10, he’s an outfield, Brandon Wishard. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Kane: Like to now introduce the head coaches. These guys put in a lot of hours getting this team ready to advance in the World Series. The head coach is Ellis McKane. (A round of applause is given.) 3 Mr. Kane: Assistant coaches, Robert Booklin. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Kane: And one more assistant coach, Randy Wishard. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Kane: One more note about this team. It’s not cheap to travel to a World Series, and they had a major fund raiser, thousands of dollars, last month, to go to the World Series, and that says a lot about the team itself, so one more final applause for the Augusta Sidewinders. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Kane: Thank you very much. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Kane: Coach McKane has a special presentation for the Mayor. Your Honor, come on down, and Mr. Bridges. Mr. McKane: We picked up a little souvenir for you while we were there, representing the City of Augusta. A commemorative tee shirt [inaudible] World Series, and on the back, all the teams that attended the World Series. And of course, if you’ll notice, the Augusta Sidewinders is right there. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. McKane: Commissioner Bridges, he helped us get some pins. Pin trading is a big part of the festivities there. He helped us get some Augusta pins. And by the way, after we beat the #1 team in the country, the Augusta pin was very popular. So we brought Commissioner Bridges back a pin for the 2003 USSSA World Series. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. McKane: One other thing. He mentioned a fundraiser. We’d like to thank all our parents. That was a big part of it. If it wasn’t for the parents, we wouldn’t be able to do it. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Mayor: Lena, we’re going to jump, we’re going to jump to [inaudible]. The Clerk: Okay. 4 Mr. Mayor: First, let’s go ahead and take up the consent agenda. The Clerk: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor: There are some people that are here for those items and they can go ahead and leave. The Clerk: Our consent agenda consists of items 1 through 40D, with the addition, after the Public Safety meeting held today at 12:45 and our Finance meeting at 1, the inclusion of items 43, 48, 49, 45, 51, 52, 53, 54 and 55. Mr. Mayor: Did you include item 45, Madame Clerk? The Clerk: Yes, sir, item 45. That’s items 1 through 40D, with the inclusion of items 43, 48, 49, 45, 51, 52, 53, 54 and 55. Mr. Mayor: Okay, do we have a motion with respect to the consent agenda? Mr. Shepard: I move approval of the consent agenda, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Is there a second? Mr. Colclough: Second. Mr. Mayor: Madame Clerk, do you want to read any alcohol licenses? Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, I have one I’d like to see to get added to the consent agenda. Mr. Mayor: Which item is that? Mr. Cheek: Item 63. Mr. Mayor: Item 63. Is there any objection to adding item 63? Any objection? None heard, so we’ll include that on the consent motion. Madame Clerk, if you want to read the alcohol licenses. The Clerk: Yes, sir. For the benefit of any objectors to the alcohol petitions, once the alcohol petition is read, would you please signify your objection by raising your hand once the petition is read. PUBLIC SERVICES: 2. Motion to approve a request by Lara E. Plocha for an on premise consumption Liquor, Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with The Imperial Theatre, Inc. located at 725 Broad St. District 1. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 5 3. Motion to approve a request by Henry H. Kim for an on premise consumption Liquor & Beer license to be used in connection with Un Ha Su Restaurant & Karaoke located at 1855 Gordon Hwy. There will be Sunday sales. District 5. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 4. Motion to approve a request by Rosemary Dudley for a retail package Liquor, Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with White Horse Wine & Spirits located at 497 Highland Ave. District 7. Super District 10. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 5. Motion to approve a request by Cedric L. Jones for an on premise consumption Beer license to be used in connection with TLC Hot Wings Express, Inc. located at 2579 Tobacco Rd. There will be Sunday sales. District 4. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 6. Motion to approve a request by Sergio Rodriguez for an on premise consumption Liquor, Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with El Michoacano d/b/a Morelia’s located at 1531 Walton Way. There will be Sunday sales. District 1. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 7. Motion to approve a request by Gene Newton for a retail package Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with Mascot Petroleum Co., Inc. d/b/a Sunoco A Plus #2691 located at 1901 Gordon Hwy. District 5. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 8. Motion to approve a request by Gene Newton for a retail package Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with Mascot Petroleum Co., Inc. d/b/a Sunoco A Plus #2690 located at 2013 Walton Way. District 3. Super District 10. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 9. Motion to approve a request by Mary Armstrong for an on premise consumption Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with Seven Fifty Six Sandwich Shoppe located at 756 Broad St. District 1. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 10. Motion to approve a request by Nicole Hewitt for an on premise consumption Liquor, Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with Hip Hop Café located at 1370 Gordon Hwy. There will be dance. District 1. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) The Clerk: Are there any objections to those alcohol petitions? Mr. Mayor: Okay, none are noted, Madame Clerk. Gentlemen, would you like to pull any items from the consent agenda? Mr. Beard. Mr. Beard: Mr. Mayor, I would like to pull 16 and 53. Mr. Mayor: 16 and 53. Okay. Anyone else? Mr. Hankerson. Mr. Hankerson: 45. Mr. Mayor: That was 45? 6 Mr. Hankerson: Yes. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Anyone else? CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS: PUBLIC SERVICES: 1. Motion to approve $34,920.00 to Johnson, Laschober & Associates for architectural and engineering services to Meadowbrook Park and Elliott Park. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 2. Motion to approve a request by Lara E. Plocha for an on premise consumption Liquor, Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with The Imperial Theatre, Inc. located at 725 Broad St. District 1. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 3. Motion to approve a request by Henry H. Kim for an on premise consumption Liquor & Beer license to be used in connection with Un Ha Su Restaurant & Karaoke located at 1855 Gordon Hwy. There will be Sunday sales. District 5. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 4. Motion to approve a request by Rosemary Dudley for a retail package Liquor, Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with White Horse Wine & Spirits located at 497 Highland Ave. District 7. Super District 10. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 5. Motion to approve a request by Cedric L. Jones for an on premise consumption Beer license to be used in connection with TLC Hot Wings Express, Inc. located at 2579 Tobacco Rd. There will be Sunday sales. District 4. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 6. Motion to approve a request by Sergio Rodriguez for an on premise consumption Liquor, Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with El Michoacano d/b/a Morelia’s located at 1531 Walton Way. There will be Sunday sales. District 1. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 7. Motion to approve a request by Gene Newton for a retail package Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with Mascot Petroleum Co., Inc. d/b/a Sunoco A Plus #2691 located at 1901 Gordon Hwy. District 5. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 8. Motion to approve a request by Gene Newton for a retail package Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with Mascot Petroleum Co., Inc. d/b/a Sunoco A Plus #2690 located at 2013 Walton Way. District 3. Super District 10. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 9. Motion to approve a request by Mary Armstrong for an on premise consumption Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with Seven Fifty Six Sandwich Shoppe located at 756 Broad St. District 1. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 10. Motion to approve a request by Nicole Hewitt for an on premise consumption Liquor, Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with Hip Hop Café located at 1370 Gordon Hwy. There will be dance. District 1. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 7 11. Motion to approve a request by Gale Deibler for a Therapeutic Massage license to be used in connection with Michelle James Hair Production located at 467 Highland Ave. District 7. Super District 10. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) 12. Motion to approve a request by Audie Bovier for a Therapeutic Massage Operators license to be used in connection with Michelle James Productions located at 467 Highland Ave. District 7. Super District 10. (Approved by Public Services July 28, 2003) ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES: 13. Motion to approve reversing the decision of the Historic Preservation Commission thereby approving the Certificate of Appropriateness for demolition of the structure at 1106 Wrightsboro Road. (District 2, Super District 9). (Approved by Administrative Services Committee July 28, 2003) 14. Motion to authorize Public Works & Engineering Department to hire the Mapping and Drafting Team Leader at a salary of $36,000 to be funded from the Highway Administration Budget. (Approved by Administrative Services Committee July 28, 2003) 15. Motion to approve adding one seat on Downtown Advisory Panel for commercial property owner and that all members be in good standing with Augusta, Ga. (Approved by Administrative Services Committee July 28, 2003) 16. Deleted from the consent agenda. ENGINEERING SERVICES: 17. Motion to approve a request from the Augusta African-American Historical Committee regarding the placement of 50 monuments on Laney Walker Blvd. and city maintenance of the grass and shrubbery around the monument. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 18. Motion to approve Change Order Number Five with Mabus Brothers Construction in the amount of $34,565.25 on the Stevens Creek Rd. Project (CPB # 323-04-296823235) to be funded from the project construction account. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 19. Motion to approve bid award for installation of a liquid lime feed system at Groundwater Treatment Plant #1 to the lowest responsive bidder, Tesco, Inc., in the amount of $177,759/00. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 20. Motion to authorize acceptance of proposal from Systems & Software, Inc. for programming and support services to automatically update automated meter replacement for a fee of $48,400. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 21. Motion to approve bid award for Confined Space Equipment to include Harnesses, Tripods, Rope Assemblies and accessories to the lowest bidder, United Safety Associates, Inc., not to exceed $69,020.00. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 22. Motion to approve bid award for Confined Space Equipment to include Gas Detecting Monitoring products and accessories to the lowest bidder, Hagemeyer 8 North America d/b/a Vallen Safety, not to exceed $79,732.24. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 23. Motion to approve Change Order #1 in the amount of $36,184.58 to the US 25 Sewer Wastewater Collection System Improvements Project to add the extension of sanitary sewer 400 feet along McDonald Street. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 24. Motion to approve Change Order in the amount of $53,682.51 for additional work to be performed on existing Second Street Lift Station Project. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 25. Motion to approve deductive Change Order No. 3 to Empire Dismantlement Corporation in the amount of $14,200.00. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 26. Motion to authorize condemnation of a portion of Tax Map 132, Parcel 130,which is owned by Robert M. L. Mackie, for an easement on the Augusta Richmond County Drainage Improvement Phase I Project, more particularly described as 2,424.73 square feet, more or less, of permanent easement. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 27. Motion to approve settlement of condemnation case between Augusta, Georgia and Ralph A. Ireland, III, as owner for the following property: 8,172 square feet, more or less, of permanent utility easement. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 28. Motion to authorize Public Works & Engineering Department to hire the Mapping and Drafting Team Leader at a salary of $36,000 to be funded from the Highway Administration Budget. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 29. Motion to approve award for the construction of the Ridge Forest Estates Sanitary Sewer System Improvements Project to Blair Construction, Inc. who submitted a low bid of $947,161.45. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 30. Motion to approve contract negotiation and recommendation of the selection committee of Messerly Design Group (Stevenson Palmer Engineers, S. L. King and Rothbert Tamburini and Windsor) as the engineering firm to perform design services for the J. B. Messerly Water Pollution Control Plant Upgrade (RFQ #02- 217A) and authorize staff to proceed with negotiations with the second firm if negotiations fail with the selected firm. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 31. Motion to approve the proposal from U.S. Infrastructure, Inc. for the collection of data and preparation of National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES) permit applications for the James B. Messerly and Spirit Creek Water Pollution Control Plants. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 32. Motion to approve a proposal from the Southeastern Natural Science Academy to conduct an optimization study and prepare an operations manual for the constructed wetland treatment system at the James B. Messerly Water Pollution Control Plant. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 9 33. Motion to approve an agreement between Augusta and Cingular for antenna co-location license at the Fairington and Tobacco Road water tank. Annual revenues generated from license agreement will be $24,000 per year at this location. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 34. Motion to approve an agreement between Augusta and Nextel for antenna co-location license at the Highland Avenue water tank. Annual revenues generated from license agreement will be $21,600 per year at this location. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 35. Motion to approve an agreement between Augusta and Cingular for antenna co-location license at the Belair Road water tank. Annual revenues generated from license agreement will be $21,600 per year at this location. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 36. Motion to approve and adopt the Resolution authorizing transmittal of the 2003-2008 5-Year Updated Short Term Work Program as a part of the implementation of Augusta’s Solid Waste Management Plan. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 37. Motion to approve Augusta Utilities Department to authorizing Systems and Software, Inc. to proceed with installation of expanded IVR/IWR capabilities in an amount not to exceed $32,440. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) 38. Motion to approve the acceptance of grant monies for flood mitigation on four (4) additional homes, 44-47 Dominion Way and proceed with closing this week. (Approved by Engineering Services Committee July 28, 2003) PLANNING: 39. ZA-R-161 – A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve an amendment to the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County amending Section 35 by adding a new Section 35-9 entitled “Land Adjacent to Fort Gordon” to be consistent with O.C.G.A. 36-66.6. (Approved by the Commission July 15, 2003 – second reading) PETITIONS & COMMUNICATIONS: 40. Motion to approve the minutes of the July 15, 2003 regular meeting and Special Called Commission meeting July 24, 2003. 40A. Motion to approve the appointment of Mr. E.T. Martin to the Housing and Neighborhood Development Advisory Committee due to the resignation of Mr. Charles Smith representing District 5. 40B. Motion to approve the appointment of Mr. Loren Gray to the Board of Trustees of ARC Public Library representing District 2. 40C. Motion to approve the appointment of Mr. John Perdue to the ARC Planning Commission due to the resignation of Mr. Randall Hall representing District 7. 40D. Motion to approve the appointment of Ms. Venus Cain to the Augusta Aviation Commission due to the resignation of Mr. Jimmy Drew and Mr. Sammy Sias to the ARC Personnel Board replacing Ms. Cain representing District 4. 10 43. Receive recommendations from the taxi cab sub-committee. 1. Ten-minute time as a guide for taxicab waiting time. 2. Acceptance of magnetic lights and vinyl lettering as opposed to lettering being pained on vehicles. 3. Increasing the passenger capacity to eleven passengers including the driver. 48. Approve the acquisition of One (1) E350 Work Detail Van for $24,351.46 for the Public Works Department – Vacant Lot/Eviction Crew from Bobby Jones Ford of Augusta, Georgia. (lowest bid offers on Bid 02-155). 49. Approve refund to Susan A. Bone of 2000 and 2001 taxes paid in error in the amount of $567.73 on Map 98-3, Parcel 175. 51. Consider abatement of taxes for years 1993 through 1999 on property now in the Land Bank. Property is known as Map 59-3, Parcel 400. 52. Approve refunds on taxes on 26 accounts paid in error for various reasons; see attached for years and amounts. 54. Consider a request from the North Jenkins County Volunteer Fire Department regarding the donation of a fire pumper to their department. 55. Approve the acquisition of three (3) Pumper Fire Trucks for the Augusta Fire Department from Harless Fire Equipment Company of Bessemer, Alabama for the amount of $310,500.00 each (lowest bid offer on Bid 02-048). 63. Approve adding 3411 & 3417 Peach Orchard Road to the Solid Waste Contract. (Requested by Commissioner Andy Cheek) Mr. Mayor: We have a motion to approve the consent agenda, minus items 16, 45 and 53. All in favor of that motion, please vote in the affirmative. Mr. Colclough: Mr. Mayor, Madame Clerk, let it be known that I vote No on Sunday sales. The Clerk: Yes, sir. Mr. Bridges: And the same here, Madame Clerk. The Clerk: Yes, sir. Mr. Colclough and Mr. Bridges vote No on Sunday sales portion. Motion carries 10-0. [Items 3, 5, 6] Motion carries 10-0. [Items 1-2, 4, 7-15, 17-40D, 43, 45, 58, 59, 51, 52, 54, 55, 63] 11 Mr. Mayor: Madame Clerk, we have some of these items that are coming off of the agenda today, they’ve been deferred to other committee meetings. Do you want to go ahead and point those out [inaudible] people that are here for those items? The Clerk: Yes, sir. 42. Discussion of Fire Station #15. (Requested by Commissioner Boyles) ferred to our next meeting, August 11, Public The Clerk: Item 42 was de Safety, at 1:30. 46. Update from Dr. Terrence Cook regarding Project Access. The Clerk: Item 46 was deferred to our next meeting on August 11 at 2 o’clock. 50. Approve request from the Board of Tax Assessors to proceed with obtaining an outside auditing firm to review all accounts with a value of $50,000 and above. The Clerk: Item 50 was deferred to our August 11 meeting, Finance meeting, at 2 o’clock. Item 56 will be brought before the full Commission today. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Kuhlke, is your item on here? 60. Discussion of Day Care facility owned by Mr. Robert L. Watkins. (Requested by Commissioner Kuhlke) The Clerk: Deleting. Mr. Mayor: Deleting item number 60? The Clerk: Deleting item 60. Mr. Hankerson: What did you just say on 43? The Clerk: 43? Mr. Hankerson: Didn’t you say 43? The Clerk: No, sir. I said 42 for the next meeting. Mr. Hankerson: Oh, okay. The Clerk: 43 is in our consent agenda. I will enumerate those recommendations. 43. Receive recommendations from the taxi cab sub-committee. 12 1. Ten-minute time as a guide for taxicab waiting time. 2. Acceptance of magnetic lights and vinyl lettering as opposed to lettering being pained on vehicles. 3. Increasing the passenger capacity to eleven passengers including the driver. Mr. Bridges: Mr. Mayor, what was that second one? The Clerk: The second was the acceptance of magnetic lights and vinyl lettering as opposed to lettering being painted on vehicles. Mr. Hankerson: What was the timing? The Clerk: Ten minutes. Mr. Hankerson: Waiting time? That was recommended? The Clerk: Yes, sir, the recommendation. The ten minute time. Mr. Hankerson: Ten or 20? The Clerk: Ten. Mr. Hankerson: Okay. Mr. Mayor: Madame Clerk, we have a number of people here for item number 62. If we could move ahead and take that item up now. The Clerk: Okay. Mr. Boyles: Was item number 60 deleted from the agenda? Mr. Mayor: Yes. The Clerk: Yes. Mr. Mayor: Item number 62, Madame Clerk. The Clerk: ENGINEERING SERVICES: 62. Update from the Public Works Director regarding the July 30th flood. (Requested by Commissioner Tommy Boyles) Mr. Mayor: Mr. Boyles, did you want to say anything? 13 Mr. Boyles: I did, Mr. Mayor, and I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to ask a couple of questions today and to discuss some of the things that went on on July 30. First of all, I’d like to thank you personally for coming out to Chelsea Drive and other areas to look at the situation that we had out there. And I’d like to thank our Emergency Management people and especially our Fire service for being out there, and Chief Gillespie. I understand the folks were out there in hip boots and they were going to folks’ houses and I got lots of calls thanking me, but I had nothing to do with that. That belongs to the Fire service, for doing that. Mr. Beard: I have a hard time hearing on this end. Mr. Boyles: I’ll try to speak a little louder, Mr. Beard, thank you. I’ve had calls from citizens from five different areas, and I’ve asked them to come down here today. Number 1 is the Willow Creek District, and that’s in District 1. Vassar Drive, Hillsdale Drive, which is in District 3. Scotts Way, Chelsea Drive in District 7. And there was a call I had from Wrightsboro Road at Rae’s Creek, which is in District 3. So this is by no th means a feeling or appearing to be just the 7 Commission District. I’ve asked them to come today so maybe they can get an update as to where we are and what we need to do. First of all, I’d like to distribute some photos that were taken of Crane Creek, to the Commission, and you’ll see some of these photos were taken of Crane Creek before and some afterwards. They’re all different photos. I want to also distribute and ask some questions on this concerning the history of the Special Purpose Local Option Sales Tax from 1986 to now, and maybe we can get some questions on that and I’d like to, just to show me, and me asking why the $49.5 million that’s collected that’s collected but not spent from ’86 to 2002, and I’d like an update of a monthly sales tax report that shows some of these areas, especially in the Vassar Drive area, the Willow Creek area, the full county-wide area, the feasibility study for county-wide, the Skinner Mill Road/Crane Creek area. There are several questions I have on that. And of course the upper end of Rae’s Creek. Rae’s Creek is nine-mile creek that starts up behind Dayspring Baptist Church and works its way back down behind, basically into Lake Olmstead, coming back up Wrightsboro Road. I just got some of that. And I’ve got, I have a lot of information concerning -- a friend of mine wrote this book back in 1996 called Down Rae’s Creek and it gave a lot of information, especially in some of the areas that are still flood-prone, and I might read just something from Lake Aumond. (reading) “In November of ’73 the Richmond County Commission awarded a bid to dredge Aumond Lake so that silt could better retain both silt and the floods of Rae’s Creek. At that time, the basin of the lake was large and capable of containing a various storage of flood water, and all that was needed to be done was make it even better for storing storm water runoff [inaudible]. In 1975, work in the lake was still not completed. By ’77, the lake was not only desilted, but also it had been partly filled. County taxpayers paid $107,000 to desilt the lake and instead found the entire half of the lake to be filled in so the lake could be half as effective for flood retention as it was prior to ’77.” The projects along Rae’s Creek, according to this in, in ’97, that [inaudible] already more than $6 million was spent by taxpayers on Rae’s Creek watershed flood controls over the past few decades. And we’re getting down to Fox Spring Branch, which kind of comes out and goes into Rae’s Creek there at Ingleside Drive. Fox Springs Branch is a two-mile long branch of Rae’s Creek 14 which even has five tributaries of its own. Almost every square inch of this stream is on a watershed and developed with either businesses or residences. Fox Spring Branch drains the neighborhoods of Forest Hills, Murray Hills, Hillwood and part of Berckman Hills. Because of this other development of this drainage area, the storm water runoff feeding in Fox Springs Branch during floods is tremendous. To help curb the problem of flooding caused by almost ever frequent thunderstorm, certain flood control measures were taken as designed by the Rae’s Creek engineering firm and carried out by Richmond County in 1992. [inaudible] was the straightening of the stream above Wheeler Road and the replacement of culverts at the road. Next was the rechanneling of the stream from the road at Westminster School to Boy Scout. On that rechanneling near Tutt Middle School, a large detection dam and basis was developed at a cost of $731, 414. I’ve had several calls from the residents along there who say the dam is just simply not working. It’s throwing more water and more corrosion and erosion back into their neighborhoods. At the new Ashland, Henderson and Ingleside Drive, the same sort of new culverts cost us $687,000. When you get down to where basically I see the problem at Ingleside Drive, we’re talking about Willow Creek. This neighborhood’s residents have complained quite a bit to Augusta officials about their problem and how Richmond County’s recent drainage improvements upstream have caused flood waters to come in their area faster. Even back in 1993, the City Council’s Public Works Committee approved a plan to either widen or deepen the creek here. They dedicated $345,000 to the proposed project. The ’90, ’91, ’95 and ’96 floods caused serious flooding here at the Willow Creek subdivision. And as I talked to people that had telephoned me, I [inaudible] people were saying that once the water got to Berckman Road, it seemed to stop, as though it couldn’t get on further out, it couldn’t get on down to Lake Olmstead. So I think we need to -- what our plan would be or what our procedure would be, Mr. Mayor, I would appreciate it if you would let some of these residents address some of these concerns that they have, and as I say, I’ve got a lot of questions that maybe need to be addressed to Engineering Services, and I’m only talking about at this point, because the flood only hit District 1, 3 and 7, and I’m speaking for those, but I’m sure we will have those problems county-wide. But I would like to, Mr. Mayor, if possible let you offer the residents of those Districts and those areas that were impacted to have a chance to address this Commission. Mr. Mayor: Do we have any residents from the impacted area who want to speak today? Mr. Boyles, I’d like to accommodate you, but maybe if we could narrow it down to two or three spokesmen from the neighborhoods, just in the interest of time today. It might be more appropriate if we scheduled a meeting with Engineering Services or a meeting with the Commission to exclusively take this up. We have a rather full agenda today and I’d hate to have people here late at night, not to minimize the concern we have for this but just in the interest of time. Mr. Kuhlke. Mr. Kuhlke: Mr. Mayor, from Willow Creek, I’d like Ms. Skinner to be the spokesman from that area. And from Vassar, Ms. Hensley, if you could just say a few words about the problems we’ve had over there. And then of course Teresa is familiar with all of this. But some of the questions that I would have, Teresa, and probably their comments, I know that both of these particular areas have been on the radar screen for a while and maybe you can give us an update on what the progress is. 15 Ms. Smith: [inaudible] update and it may answer some of the questions that they have prior to their coming to the podium. Mr. Mayor: Well, let’s do this. Let’s hear from the two of them because they came down here and they want to be heard today. Let’s let them be heard and then from you, Ms. Smith. And then if something has not been said or covered, then if some other people feel the need to speak today, we’ll consider that. So let’s try to start it that way. Give us your name and address for the record, please. Ms. Skinner: I’m Becky Skinner and I live at 2508 Willow Ridge Drive. I have been a resident of the Willow Creek subdivision for six years. I’ve been down here many times, as Sylvia Cooper very aptly put it in her article on Friday, we have been promised numerous times the flood abatement project would start after the Masters. As she said, they didn’t say which Masters. We were told this year that it was going to start in July, that the money was put aside, that the project, the contract had been let and the bids were being accepted. In the meantime, we did work within the neighborhood, we spent thousands of dollars on the commitment that once again this would be taken care of. It has not. Wednesday, the water was so deep that it took us 5-1/2 hours to get into our neighborhood. I was greeted when I came in with firemen with waders, and they had gone to the back to check on me. I mean that’s a concern right there. If you had a heart attack, you couldn’t get out. The gentleman told me that the water was 3-1/2 feet deep. It took out vents that we had. The trash, the grass, and -- I don’t have the article with me -- someone said that there was no grass from upstream. That’s not true. There’s trash, debris in our neighborhood. We have called the City to even find out if someone can help us with the clean-up, but the City seems to think that those city streets don’t belong to the City. I’m not an engineer, but we’re the last place on the stream, and it’s a huge funnel that comes into a very small place. I think in other times water runs downhill and if the project -- the project needed to start at the bottom and work itself up instead of starting at the top and working itself down. I’m a banker, not an engineer, but that stands to be logical to me. As I said, over the six years we’ve been promised. We can’t even get a call back from the appropriate department as to where we are with our contract for our project. We hear this second hand. After the construction was to have started in July, we have heard nothing. It is a commitment that has been made to us, and I think there is culpability on the City’s part as far as the construction that has been done on the upper end of the creek, and us being at the bottom, and I’m here today to find out when the construction is going to start. Just a couple of other things [inaudible] and then I’ll let the other people speak. It was -- I pulled an article and it was from December 14, ’02, about $7.2 million that had sat for two years. Our money has been set aside. I understand that the gap, what bid came in and what had been set aside, that there is gap funding needed. During that time that money sat idle, interest alone would have paid gap funding. The second issue was an article that appeared in just the July 9 paper about the damage to the bridge on Berckman Road. I looked at the date on that bridge, and I know that is the date that some work was done to it, and that was 1993. So if the damage has been done just since the work was done in 1993, I don’t think it takes an engineer again to realize what caused the damage. It is that floodwater. I also understand, and perhaps the firemen 16 could substantiate this, the water even went over the bridge this time on Berckman Road. We need your help, and quite simply, we’re asking for the City to come through with what you have committed to us. And our two concerns, our pond is going to [inaudible] and our road is going to cave in. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Ms. Skinner. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Mayor: We’ll hear from the next speaker. If you’ll give us you name and address for the record, please. Mr. Kuhlke: Ms. Hensley lives on Vassar Drive. The situation there is that the creek beside her house, the culvert that’s under the road. When we get heavy rain, the pipe under the road is not big enough and the road acts as a dam. It backs up. Her air conditioning unit has been flooded several times and there’s some real concern about deterioration on the foundation. Ms. Freeman also lives in that area, and actually I’ve been working with Teresa on this for over a year, and for your information I had a call yesterday from Eric Thompson. I was not able to talk with him. I also had a call from him Friday. So I’m sure Ms. Smith can give us a report on that. But if there is anything else you want to say, feel free to do it. Ms. Hensley: Thank you, Bill. Mr. Mayor: Give us your name and address for the record, and pull the mike down and speak into it. Thank you. Ms. Hensley: [inaudible] Hensley, 3002 Vassar Drive. Bill explained it very well. We’ve just been dealing with this problem since 1990. We happened to move into our house the day of the flood. How lucky can you get? Anyway, my real, my real question -- I have several -- but this has been going on so long, we’ve been promised as you mentioned so many times, and we keep hoping and praying it’s going to happen and it just doesn’t seem to get done. I also, I’m not an engineer, but I’m so concerned. I’ve seen the plans and I’m not sure it’s the final plan. I see a plan and then a new plan. But the pipe underneath our street, I just don’t think it is big enough to handle what’s happening. The other day, it rose so quickly that it got above the chain link fence, went into Gwen Freeman’s lower floor, which it’s done twice. Like three feet. The first time it knocked her door in and flooded the whole downstairs. So it just bothers me. I want to make sure the engineers, if they’re going to fix it, to please do it right, that the pipe is big enough to handle that, because five streets come down to where we are. And it’s just -- and there’s also a huge pond up at the top of the hill, and so it’s just, you know, I just want to make sure the engineers really get it right. And we really have been waiting a long time. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Cheek, did you want to -- 17 Mr. Cheek: For the record, the rainfall that occurred last Wednesday, the per hour rainfall calculated out to be higher per hour than the 1990 flood and hurricane or tropical depression Floyd when it came through. This was research done on [inaudible] precipitation estimates from the satellites and Doppler, but it was also verified by ground [inaudible] and several land gauges. A rainfall rate of over 2-1/2 inches in 40 minutes, which would calculate out to nearly 3 inches per hour, which exceeds the 2 inch per hour trigger point. So this was an unusual and very heavy rainfall event that occurred. It exceeded, again, both the tropical depression Floyd rainfall which caused flooding and the 1990 rainfall which was roughly 20 inches in 24 hours. So this was a significant rainfall event, probably a worst case. Thank God it wasn’t spread throughout the city. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Ms. Smith. First of all, can you respond to the concerns of the two citizens we’ve heard from and then maybe Mr. Kuhlke and Mr. Boyles might have some specific questions for you. Ms. Smith: Okay. I left one sheet of paper in my notes over here. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Ms. Smith: First of all, I would like to ensure that everyone understands that the projects that are referred to, the Vassar Drive area is included in the Augusta Richmond County Drainage Improvements Phase I project and the Willow Creek area is included in the Rae’s Creek Phase III project. So when these two projects are completed, Public Works has made no statements to anyone that there will not be flooding that occurs in these areas. It totally depends on what the flood event is, that occurs. It depends on how much rain we actually get. Our target is, and of course with our development plans, when we go in and we either initially design work or we do improvements, the target is to accommodate a 25-year storm. However, it is extremely difficult for us to go in and to retrofit areas to accommodate a 25-year storm. So we do improvements as we can within those areas that are already developed. With respect to Vassar Drive, and the Vassar Drive area, as I indicated it is included in the Augusta Richmond County Miscellaneous Drainage Improvements Phase I project. The last right-of-way item for that project that would allow us to go out to bid was approved, excused, is to be approved -- no, was approved by the Commission today on consent agenda. It wasn’t one of the items that was pulled so it was approved today on consent agenda. We are planning to have that project over to Purchasing no later than next week. However, one of the things that happened on the section of Vassar Drive specifically is we attempted to coordinate and work with the residents or the property owners that were impacted and the design on that project did indeed change several times because there was some concerns associated with the aesthetics, there was concerns associated with how much of the property would be taken, and we actually extended that property to go downstream and connect with another project that had been done. So there were several changes that were made and we were attempting to be customer friendly and work with the residents in that area. With respect to the Rae’s Creek project, when the Rae’s Creek Phase III project is completed, a lot of the water that currently gets out of the pond will continue to get out of the pond. This is something that was presented to the community when we had our public meeting. There 18 were two options that were presented. One option actually would, would have been more effective than the option that was chosen by the community. However, we were instructed or we were informed that the neighborhood association wanted to keep the pond. The option that would have been more effective would have required that the pond in the Willow Creek area be removed. Instead, what we did is, in that project we are raising the elevation of the road so that ingress and egress can be allowed during a storm event so that the Fire Chief or whomever might need to get back there has access through that primary road, but as was indicated by Ms. Skinner, that project did indeed come in, we had - I think Commissioner Boyles said there was $400,000 allocated to that project. We added $300,000 to that project, for a total of almost $8 million. Excuse me, $800,000, for that project. The bids came in at $1.8 million. If there are interest funds that are available to be added to that, we’re certainly interested in knowing that there is an additional $1 million that can be added for the project. Because to date, we have not been able to award the project, because within the Public Works budget, we have not been able to identify an additional $1 million to add to the project. We have been going through, we have been working with Finance, we have been reviewing the information that has been provided to Mr. Kolb, but to date we have not identified a spare million dollars in Public Works to utilize to award the project. We’re also working with the engineering firm and we only had one contractors to issue a bid. We’re working with that contractor and the engineering firm to try and determine where there was such a marked difference between the $800,000 estimate and the $1.8 million bid that came in. The bridge on Berckman down near Willow Creek is a bridge that was constructed by the Georgia Department of Transportation. That bridge is designed to accommodate 50-year storm. If that bridge was topped last week, then we know that we had in excess of a 50- year storm. And our storm drain systems as I indicated are designed to handle 25 years or less. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Boyles, Mr. Kuhlke. Do y’all want to -- go ahead. Mr. Kuhlke: Teresa, let me get back to Vassar Drive, because I hear what you’re saying from a budget standpoint. If it goes to Purchasing next week, for the information of the people along that creek, give us a time line on that. Ms. Smith: If it goes to Purchasing next week, it takes four to six weeks for them to advertise it. It will take about maybe two weeks for us to get the information together to get back to the Commission. And then another two weeks or so from when we submit it. So we’re looking at 60, 75 days or so before we are able to even have a meeting with the contractor to issue a notice to proceed. Mr. Kuhlke: Well, let me ask this question, and I’m going to try to be like my colleague Mr. Williams. I’ve got about four more months on this job. Can you pretty much assure me that that contract will be let before I get out of this place? Ms. Smith: Unless the bids come in a million dollars over, what we are -- Mr. Kuhlke: Who did your estimates? Because I’ve got a concern about that, too. 19 Ms. Smith: We actually get estimates from our engineering firms, when they submit, when they do a final submittal on the plans, they submit a construction estimate. We also utilize past data that we have in house. We do an in house construction estimate. And those two estimates actually lined up at the time that, I mean prior to our going out to bids for that project. Mr. Kuhlke: So on the Willow Creek, what was the explanation from the engineer of why it went over a million dollars? Ms. Smith: I don’t have that information. We’re trying to put together a meeting with the engineers and the contractor to see if maybe the contractor misunderstood something or if the contractor saw something in the design that the engineers hadn’t intended to be included or if there was something that he saw in the field that was omitted. I don’t have that information at this time. Mr. Kuhlke: Just for my information, how long has the engineer, how long ago was the engineering done from Berckman Road down to the lake? Because it seems to me like it’s been a number of years that that’s been done. Ms. Smith: It may have been -- Mr. Boyles: November 22, ’99. Mr. Kuhlke: ’99. Ms. Smith: When the engineering was completed. Mr. Boyles: When it was started. Ms. Smith: Yes, that’s when it was started. It took about a year-and-a-half to two years for us to get the permits that we needed from the Corps of Engineers, water quality permits, and from all of the folks that were involved in that. So it was about a two-year design project. Mr. Kuhlke: So if I’m hearing you correctly, Willow Creek is up the creek without a paddle unless we come up with another million dollars? Ms. Smith: Oh, no, no -- yes -- on Willow Creek? Yes, sir. They are. Willow Creek is up the creek without a paddle unless we can find a million dollars. Mr. Kuhlke: Unless we can find a million dollars. And if your estimates come in on budget for Vassar, we’re looking at a couple of months that -- Ms. Smith: Yes, sir. 20 Mr. Kuhlke: -- that it all be [inaudible], right? Ms. Smith: Yes. Correct. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. So as far as the people on Vassar and for y’all on Willow Creek. Vassar hopefully will come in on budget and something will happen. This Commission has got some work to do before anything happens at Willow Creek. And that work is going to be how do we find the money to make it, to make it work. Mr. Boyles: Mr. Mayor, if I could follow up a little bit. On the information that I gave you, it came from our [inaudible], in the Phase I we had almost $5 million left over and not committed, $4,916,000. Phase I think that ended in 2002, we had $10,658,000 left over. And through 2002 in Phase III, we had an income during that period from 1996 to 2002 of $135,044,000. And we had expenses, committed expenses of $104 million, which left almost a $34 million difference. I realize I’m not as fortunate as Mr. Kuhlke to be leaving in four months. I’ve still got a little time left. And I just have a hard time identifying numbers. But when we go back almost ten to 12 years and we’ve got money that’s left over and hasn’t been committed and hasn’t been spent and yet we’re told that we’re going to be $1 million, we’re going to lack $1 million for projects, if I read the information right I’m sure the Corps can help us out on these, our Corps permit was valid to June, 2003, and this is on the Willow Creek project. I guess I’m just having -- and this may be the wrong time to ask all these questions, but I’m just having a difficult time understanding it. And it seems like when money is available and we’re not using it in the most expedient and most efficient manner, I’m kind of a little concerned about that. And again, I may attribute some of that to my not having been here long enough to understand the entire process, but it just seems to me that somewhere we’re lacking something and I don’t know what that is. Ms. Smith: Can I respond to that? Commissioner Boyles, I am thrilled that you brought that to our attention and actually went through the report that was provided and can assure you that as you look at SPLOST revenue, for instance, for Phase I, $82, 380,000, and you look at expenditures at $77,463,000, the thing that is not readily apparent in looking at those columns is that projects such as Stevens Creek, which is a $2 million project for instance, those expenditures have not yet been costed against the project and therefore those funds are showing up in that column as not being expended yet. Mr. Boyles: From Phase I, from 1996? Ms. Smith: That is correct. That is correct. I actually have been going through this report to try and identify those projects that show up as being not yet expended but the funds are committed to a project. And one example of that is, of course, the Stevens Creek project, and we know that’s about a $2 million project. Mr. Boyles: Stevens Creek Road and Claussen Road? 21 Ms. Smith: Yes, that is correct. And in going through the other phases of sales tax, the SPLOST revenue is presented is what it is. Expenditures have actually been expended, and therefore if there are projects that are under design, if there are DOT projects for which we have right-of-way that is committed, however that DOT project has not yet started, or we have not actually paid those bills, then those funds don’t show up or are not accounted for as being committed or expended funds. That’s why you have the large gaps that you have in the report that you’re looking at. Mr. Boyles: $49.5 million? Ms. Smith: $49.5 million for? Mr. Boyles: When you total all three, Phase I, Phase II, Phase III? $49.5 million. Ms. Smith: Are projects underway, we have New Savannah Road, Old Savannah Road, we have Savannah Road and Twiggs. That’s $10 million almost in and of itself. But they’re under design. But because we haven’t spent all that money, it shows up -- it doesn’t show up as being an expenditure. There’s a committed column that’s missing from the report. Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor, if I can add to that. As we talked in previous meetings about the SPLOST fund balances, until those projects are done or they’re abandoned by the Commission in some way, you can’t do anything else with those dollars until the projects are completely done. You can’t appropriate or start new projects. And that is the case in all of the previous phases of SPLOST. Mr. Kuhlke: Mr. Kolb, let me ask you this. It looks to me like in Willow Creek, we’ve almost got an emergency situation there. Now what recourse do we have in looking at a situation where there could be a serious catastrophe if we had a flood down there and somebody had a heart attack. Are there other resources that we could go to to fund that project to correct the situation? These folks have been living with it for years. Mr. Kolb: That is a real difficult question and the answer is probably yes. You have a fund balance in your general fund, which you use as a cushion to maintain your operations. You could, and the Attorney would have to verify this, but you could declare an emergency in your SPLOST and decide not to do some projects and allocate and appropriate monies to those. You could borrow the money and use your property tax to pay that debt off or commit future SPLOST dollars. There are various financing scenarios in an emergency that you could use, but I would be prudent in trying to make that decision, cause as you try to solve one problem, other problems pop up. Mr. Kuhlke: Well, I’d like to request that at our next Commission meeting that you come back in this particular case and give us some alternatives on how we can increase the funding to get this project moving. And Ms. Smith, let me ask you this. If we don’t move on this, is this going to prompt you to have to go back to the Corps to get an extension on the permit that you already have? 22 Ms. Smith: We’re already working with the Corps to try and get that extension put in place, because we know we will not have completed this project within the time frame they’re giving us to complete it. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. And you’re already working on that/ Ms. Smith: Yes. Mr. Kuhlke: So, Mr. Kolb, if you’d do that, I’d appreciate it. Mr. Mayor: Just to clarify what you said, the work in Willow Creek will not stop the flooding. What you’re going to do is raise the road, so you’ll still have access to the subdivision, but the flood waters will still be there? Is that what you’re saying/ Ms. Smith: That is correct. We’re actually going to widen the creek but in order for us to widen the creek, the amount that our engineers recommended that it be widened, it was going to impact the pond. And so we widened it as minimally as we could in order to allow the pond to remain in place. Mr. Mayor: All right, well, I wouldn’t want the people in Willow Creek to be under the illusion that if you went in and raised the road that there’s not going to be flooding in their subdivision. Ms. Smith: No, actually there are going to be occasions where there is going to be water that tops the road. However, it won’t be to the extent that they were speaking of. I think the road is getting raised somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-1/2 to 3 feet that was reported that there was water over it last week. But it will pond on one side of the road. But in doing so, and I get as detailed with this as you’d like me to, in doing so because some of the drainage structures from Willow Creek that flow under the road go over to the pond, as long as the pond remains in place, when it dams behind the road there’s going to be water that backs up through the pipe and comes out on the other side of the road. Mr. Mayor: Okay. We’ve got some Commissioners who have their hands up, so let me call on them. I’ll go the Mayor Pro Tem first. Mr. Colclough: Ms. Smith, what would happen if you got rid of the pond? Would that solve the flooding problem in the community? Ms. Smith: It still isn’t going to solve the problem because that area is in the 100 years flood line, so it’s not going to solve the problem. There are going to be some properties back there that continue to flood practically no matter what it is that we do. The point, though, is that it would improve flooding such that there’s not the frequency of concern about water getting into the houses and we will provide a safe passage for emergency vehicles to be able to ingress and egress out of the subdivision. 23 Mr. Colclough: Basically what I was asking would it minimize the flooding of the homes if we got rid of the pond? I mean I know [inaudible]. Ms. Smith: It would significantly decrease it. Mr. Colclough: Unfortunately, a lot of people are still in the flood [inaudible]. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Mays. Mr. Mays: Yes, Mr. Mayor, I am not glad it flooded, but I’m glad there’s some more witnesses other than myself in the boat who live there from the standpoint that I think you’ve got a bigger issue, number one, than you can solve today. That’s the first thing. I have consistently amongst those who, like me, made enough folk mad over the years in reference to development upstream [inaudible] this whole area period. Now I am not saying that I wouldn’t support -- cause I will if we can deal with emergency factors to do some things with and make this [inaudible] complete. But I wrote on the note here to Mr. Kuhlke and what I have been talking to Tommy about for some time, the last development that was up on Rae’s Creek area in which I fought. My good friends who develop things constantly say I’m a progress blocker. But until there is a very intense rethinking of what we are going to do in Rae’s and Crane Creek areas about development of the future, whatever water is going to go, how it’s going to be directed, you can take all the money that you collect in SPLOST over four years and put it on that one project, but in layman’s term if you’ve got water coming out like you’ve got in a washtub and at the bottom of it you’re going to catch it in a six ounce Co-Cola bottle, you will never cure the flooding that you’ve got there. Now I came in 1990 for an 18-month vacation. Mr. Devaney had beat me and I came back to public office and I inherited the flood, the County being broke and a whole lot of other things. And my new neighbors and my new District in Willow Creek had been built since I left the old City. Now if we want to go way back into this, you had two governments, two engineering departments, quite frankly, to a certain extent they weren’t talking, that one developing one thing on one side of Berckman Road, one doing something else on the other side of Berckman Road, and in the middle what you got in the bottom of it, is you’ve got a mess. You’ve got the Augusta National on the other side of it. And certainly you’re not fixing to widen up through the golf course [inaudible]. So let’s get real about part of this and what exists up there. So let’s don’t sugar coat it to the point that, you know, that this just got started with the last rainfall. This has got a lot of rainfalls on it. And without any new [inaudible] without any [inaudible], without going to the Corps of Engineers, I think [inaudible] Mr. Mayor, is that you almost need a special project situation to re-evaluate what’s going to happen in this whole area. By that I mean you’ve got to, number 1, you’ve got to look at what’s being dumped or has been dumped, quite frankly, from everything from I-20, 520, to past development. I think you are going to need bigger help than you’ve got than with just our Public Works Department. And this is no disrespect to Public Works. But I think what you’ve got, you’ve got other here that’s going to have to help. You’ve got a Congressional situation that you need help on, with the Corps of Engineers. You’ve got two Senators that we need to be dealing with. 24 You’ve got a current Governor that we need to be dealing with. And Mr. Mayor, you and I [inaudible] 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, if necessary. Because what you’ve got, you’ve got a colossal situation there. Until water is allowed to parallel at some point and go down in the neighborhood of I-20 that gets directly to the river and to move it, you’re not going to ever shift it across that hill. Not successfully. Now we technically say it’s a 1,000 year flood, 100 year flood. If it rains here over 30 minutes, you’ve got flooding. Now how you calculate that -- (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Mays: I don’t now. But I know this. I know until it becomes something that we make this into somewhat of Marshall Plan of the different agencies who can help us, we’ll constantly be in this type of battle situation. I would like, and I don’t have any problem with Bill’s suggestion about Public Works coming back. But I think we need to hear from the current engineers who have been on this project, and no disrespect to them, but you know, I always tease y’all about what I inherited. I call it engineering affirmative action, cause everybody inherited a creek basin in this county. Nobody really had [inaudible] against anybody, they just had a system where you took a creek and you handed it to somebody and give it to a firm. Therefore, one firm got Phinizy Swamp, one firm got Rocky Creek, one firm got Rae’s Creek. You know, so let’s talk about how this got in place now. So nobody has had to really deal with somebody overlooking and saying you’re not going to do the next phase of what you’re doing. That’s not in disrespect. That’s just a point that I think it needs to be brought back, re-evaluated and say hey, can you with the plans that are on board, and with the development that was not there prior to 1990, will these current plans for the future even work on Rae’s Creek and Crane Creek and how the water drifts eastward? It goes downhill. Now something that’s funny to me, and I’ll shut up on this, Mr. Mayor, I’m not going to talk for 43 minutes about. But I think some of you need to get some clarity in here about where you’re going, because you can find another $1 million to put on this project, but how you are going to cure something at the bottom of the drainage [inaudible] if you’re not relieving and diverting water at the top of where it’s starting at? And that’s not been addressed and done. Somewhere we’ve got to call folk back in and say, plain common sense, will these plans still work with what’s been built? And we’re going to have to ask the question to developers. It was once said by somebody that just because everybody owns a piece of land it doesn’t mean you necessarily have the right to put something up on it. Now I get beat up all the time about that. But until we get a comprehensive replanting for Rae’s Creek, Crane Creek, the piecemealing of sticking $1 million here, $2 million here to get some relief for six to eight months, it is just not going to work. And I think that, you know, we’re going to have to sit everybody back down and then once you re-evaluate that plan and see what will work -- and I’m not even beyond getting second opinions on our [inaudible] -- get second opinions on who we got looking at it. Nothing is wrong with that. You start spending eight figures of money over a decade, decade-and-a-half, then maybe you need to say all right, we need somebody else to say is this right or is this wrong, are these plans outdated or will they work? Now my District starts on that end in Willow Creek, it runs all the way down to the South Carolina side of Phinizy Swamp, north side of Tobacco Road all the way to the river. I got a lot of water. But something’s 25 funny. Even though you got flooding all over this county, something’s funny -- and a lot of people laughed at the big ditch in the middle of Laney-Walker Boulevard. It’s not the most, you know, aesthetic ditch, doesn’t have a lot of azaleas blooming around it, but something’s funny when the lowest elevation in the county near the swamp can drain water better than that that lies above it. There’s a problem. And somebody in this mix -- you’ve got a lot of folk that have been benefiting since 1987, designing, putting plans together, and it’s time that somebody called attention and says okay, fine, we appreciate we you done, we’re not questioning your professionalism but hey, this ain’t working. And re-look at it, and then when you re-establish it, then decide how we are going to go, who are we going to ask, put a team together, and just like [inaudible] on the agenda, this is a major, major situation. You’re fixing to widen I-20. You’re going to have two more lanes, two more [inaudible] of concrete, the federal government is going to give you planning money, you’re going to move fast on the interstate, and guess what? It’s going to drop some more water down on y’all. And it’s going to end down there where the Co- Cola bottles catches the water out of the washtub. And unless there’s a way to get that water diverted other than bringing it through that path and dealing with it that way, I think, Mr. Mayor, that’s where we’ve got to put that type of plan together, put the folks in place that would deal with it, and allow and team up with. So often when government folk have a problem, I say the folk, everybody in government. The problem working -- the folk put pressure on us, let’s ask them to team up with [inaudible]. If we can’t get the Corps to move through Congress, citizens vote for everybody. They vote for the President on down. And you put together folk. There are a lot of influential people in that area. [inaudible] and make it a massive community drive to deal with how you’re going to re-evaluate this. [inaudible] what we got [inaudible] is not working. I don’t think if you drop $100 million in it the same way, it’s going to ever work, and until you reroute some of that water and deal and have a specific plan that deals with not necessarily, but not exclusive of, a halt to certain development, in an above that area -- sounds painful, sounds hard, some folk may want to sue and say I can’t put something on my property. But I look at it like this. Folk who have invested, folk who live there, folk who made and [inaudible] that nightmare [inaudible] were there first, and until you find something to relieve that, and I think that also has to go into the consideration of how you deal with upstream development, and if there’s a bad word, [inaudible] curbs and gutters before in south Richmond that should have been there instead of the [inaudible] ones we got out there [inaudible] so I guess I’m like Dick Nixon, in two years, Bill, they won’t have me to kick around. So I won’t miss the campaign money. [inaudible] so I [inaudible] developer is going to get mad at Willie about saying what I’m saying. But to a point they come in and then don’t want to abide by certain rules that you’ve got already that’s on the books and will sell a house and collaborate with folk who put this together and [inaudible] to a point you’ve got [inaudible] real estate rules or anything, because you’ve got second time home owners who will buy some of these places, that will walk into a [inaudible] will not know it, will not have any way of doing it, and we basically don’t want to have, don’t have the willpower and the intestinal fortitude to put that kind of language within our ordinances to say buyer beware of certain areas where you go. Now that’s where I think you’ve got some problems at, Mr. Mayor. The other think is [inaudible] and probably won’t ever pass but I’m going to still keep raising hell about it until somebody [inaudible] but I think the other plan [inaudible] very quickly because 26 this thing is just throwing money [inaudible] is not going to work, hadn’t work, and I don’t see working. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Mayor: Mr. Shepard. Mr. Shepard: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Shepard: I’d like to put Mr. Kuhlke’s recommendation in the form of a motion. I don’t think he did. So that direction comes back to this body at the next meeting. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Shepard: Can I discuss it, Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Yes, sir. Mr. Shepard: Thank you. The Finance Committee was looking at the fund balance in the previous meeting, and there appears to be more fund balance than there is. What I think would be useful in the ensuing week, if all the Commissioners were furnished with not only the revenue and expenditure, but I think a good point was made by Ms. Smith that the expenditures are also subject to having encumbrances, the money that appears to be there, I believe you’ll find is in encumbered in certain projects. So if that further information could be available, at least that’s the way I understood the information with the fund balance, that we were shown in Finance Committee, which was $44,935,000. But the unencumbered fund balance, and I’m looking for the Finance Director, and I’ll just ask my committee members if they didn’t remember it the way I did. There’s $4.9 million in revenues in excess of the encumbered projects. Now if that’s not my correct understanding, you can correct me between now and the next meeting. But -- yes, Mr. Kolb? Mr. Kolb: That is correct. At the end of a 28-month period. Mr. Shepard: So I’m thinking that there would be an opportunity to look for some sources of funding in these emergency situations. I think that the Augusta Exchange was certainly an excellent project for this county because we are capturing sales tax there like no other area except perhaps the Wal-Mart in south Augusta and the Wal-Mart in North Augusta, but we’re certainly capturing a lot of retail sales tax in that area which fund not only this government but its capital projects. And of course we’ve long recognized that it is at the top of the watershed and we have a lot of asphalt at the top of the watershed. And one thing specifically that I would like to have checked out by the Public Works Department, which I think won’t take a lot of time, but I had one report from a resident of Willow Creek, ironically, that during this deluge that we had last week that the retention pond beside Office Depot and the Best Buy, when he was sitting in his car with it pouring 27 down rain, was not capturing the water. So I would think that if we could audit the functioning of some of these ponds -- not ponds, but some of these structures -- Mr. Mayor: Basins. Mr. Shepard: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Basins. We need to do that. I’m not saying it didn’t work. I’m saying that’s my report. If I had been out there, I’d tell you from personal knowledge. But I think he was fairly accurate. He said the retention pond there beside that was not, not retaining, retaining water. So I think in areas that we have retention ponds, we darn sure ought to make sure that they are working, to see that we get what we should get out of these retention structures. Because we have a lot of asphalt up there and it pulls a lot of water down both branches of Rae’s Creek. So that won’t cost us a lot of money and I think we’re going to have to look to our new SPLOST for additional money. So to summarize, I want to see some indication of what’s encumbered and then look to this $4.9 million as a possible solution to this, to this process. Because I think we’re going to have a problem there, and that is -- we need to protect the tax base. It might not have been the wisest thing in hindsight to develop as we have developed it, but I guarantee you we have substantial development along that basin of Rae’s Creek and we get substantial ad valorem taxes from everybody in that area. And that’s what finances this government. So we have a huge investment in the success of that entire area in the Rae’s Creek basin. We can’t really do it over, but let’s at least look to those structures that are there now to see that they’re functioning at their maximum. There’s other problems where we’ve allowed private developers to build roads across Rae’s Creek. I’ve been there, done that, know Mr. Wall and I looked into the bridge that’s in the Forest Hills Racquet Club area a few years ago, and it’s things like that that have got to be addressed, as well. And we also spent some money on a hydrology study for Rae’s Creek, and we need to pull that back off the shelf and take care of what it recommended. And we’re having our ponds, such as the ones that are named unofficially after former Commissioner Hiers, we have them silting up on Rae’s Creek and we’re going to have to dig them back out because silted up ponds, natural or retention, certainly don’t retain. So if you want to come out to either Kamel West or Raintree subdivision, you can see an upper pond which is about 50% compromised with sediment. So we really need to take advantage of this wake up call to work on this drainage basin and do something to avoid a major catastrophe if say the pond goes at Willow Creek -- and these are just community-wide concerns -- if it goes at Willow Creek, I think you have a problem in the tax appraisal position because you’re not going to have the value in that area that we get out of it from taxes, and we need to do it because it’s the right thing to do and also because it’s the fiscally responsible thing to do. Now we act soon, so I appreciate the second of the motion, Mr. Cheek, and we look forward to seeing that back here I think on an expedited basis and I’d be happy -- you have a question? Ms. Smith: Yes. Yeah, actually I do. If you’re asking for a report back on, to include anything that is encumbered, what that will include is any contract that’s actually in place. What it won’t include, for instance, is in Phase I think we’ve got about $5 million that is committed to DOT projects, that won’t show up as being committed. So -- 28 Mr. Shepard: But it is committed. I mean -- set aside. Ms. Smith: Not if Finance only gives you encumbrances. Mr. Shepard: Well, I would like -- let’s not split hairs over the definition. If it’s committed or if it’s encumbered or if it’s planned to be used in connection with another project, we need to know that. Ms. Smith: Okay. We’ll work with Finance on it. Mr. Shepard: Yes, I would hope so. But I’m just saying like Wrightsboro Road, we are leveraging our dollars to bring in State dollars to fund that road. I mean if -- I would not limit it just to the technical encumbrances. Ms. Smith: Okay. Mr. Shepard: It is committed or we’re thinking about it or it’s a good idea to use it with that project, then that’s what we want to know. Ms. Smith: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Shepard: At least one of them. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: We’ll go right down the line. Everybody seems to want to say something. Mr. Beard, then Mr. Cheek, then Mr. Williams. Mr. Beard: Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I know there has been a lot said about the present predicament that we find ourselves in up in that area that Mr. Boyles has brought to our attention, Commissioner Boyles, brought to our attention. In the motion, I’d just kind of like to get that clarified. Are we just going to talk about one area of our city? Are we looking at one area of our city or are we going to look at, you know, the entire area? Simply because there has been a lot of flooding at University Hospital, there, and I could just go down the line of flooding that we’ve had. Now I know that this area brings in a lot of revenue to us, but I think to be fair to all our citizens we need to look at the whole thing. And the other thing that kind of bothers me as I listen to a lot of this, I heard it said that the pond, if we would do away with the pond that would help but the residents didn’t want that. So we have to look at that also. And we also have to look at the developers. Over the years we have allowed them, even past Commissioners, allowed them to do this, to create this problem. Even a couple of weeks ago I read in the paper that they were selling houses in the area up there, and [inaudible], knowing that there’s a problem. So I think we have a lot on the table here we have to look at, and I don’t think we can come back here in two or three weeks and say we just want to deal with this particular aspect of it. I think we have to be inclusive and look at the whole picture, because I think if we are going to be fair to all of our citizens, we have to consider that. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Cheek. 29 Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I [inaudible] us with a spirit of trying to look at this thing as a system. I think Ms. Skinner, bless your heart, talked about starting at the bottom and cleaning it out or improving it all the way up. That’s the problem we have here, is that we’ve piecemealed and patched together a so-called drainage improvement program for this particular area. Here again, if we do, and this is something that Ms. Smith said, we’re still going to have flooding because if you go south of the area of improvement, unless it includes an additional three to four times the conducting capabilities that the creek has right now, across 13, 12 and 11 or the Augusta National, and then down to, behind Vineland subdivision between the Augusta National and the Country Club and increase that channel width two to three times its normal volume, we are not going to be able to evacuate water through that area. We, the water comes under the bridge at about 15 miles per hour, at bridge height. It immediately begins making a left-hand turn around the pond, so naturally the inertia in the water wants to carry it over the dam. About 100 yards downstream, it hits a large concrete obstruction, which is part of a former mill pond wheelhouse. Further down the creek -- we walked it Sunday, my son and I -- I expected to see it obstructed. The creek channel is clear, but you have that large curve that it’s asked to make and so naturally the water begins to back up there. At the bottom of the pond, we did an off-the-cuff measurement, the water at the house at the bottom of the pond was about 17’ deep to 20’ deep during the high water mark, which is significant being as there’s a cubic foot of water coming through there. We ask it to make an almost immediate hairpin left back towards the Augusta National. And as we walked down the creek, I didn’t realize it was that easy to see that area, the water was 50 to 75 yards up the creek as the slope would allow to the Augusta National and then there are the beautiful arches of the Hogan and Nelson Bridge on 12 and 13. There again, if we correct this problem, even if we take the pond out, unless we address the down stream capabilities to conduct that water off as a system, then we’re going to bottleneck and there will be flooding in that area. And finally, let me say this. When we increased the velocity by making the changes we did in that area in the past, we brought the water down the hill much faster. And if we do this and continue that, that water moving through it at that rate of speed, if we improve the channel down to Lake Olmstead, that volume of water at that rainfall rate can cause a rise in the level of Lake Olmstead and therefore a rise in the level in the canal of several inches during major rainfall events at Walton Way and University Hospital, and unless we take this as a system we’re going to forget that happens, we have to manually open the gates to let the level down and so forth and so on, we’re going to top the canal pretty easily if we increase the inflow by that amount of water in that short a period of time. This cannot be done as we’ve done it in the past, approach this thing as a piecemeal, fix this part of it and ignore the problems downstream until they complain for eight or ten years. We’ve got to take this thing as a complete package and rework it. I’ve often heard we can’t do anything south of this area because it’s rock. They built Grand [inaudible] Dam, Hoover Dam, whatever you want to call it, and all these others in rock. I mean engineering solutions can be had to solve these problems, but the costs associated with those types of changes is significant. Mr. Mayor, this -- I’m concerned that we do get these problems resolved, but I’m much more concerned that we are taking, again taking a piecemeal approach by not addressing problems downstream of this area, including the area across the Augusta National which 30 may mean putting additional conductors underground, through Amen Corner, to additional water through, widening Rae’s Creek at Amen Corner, which would change some of the most historic holes of golf, widening the channel below that area, which is a concrete channel or ditch, which may mean right-of-way acquisitions, and then finally looking at automatic gates on the canal to keep the levels of the canal from overflowing when we dump these millions of cubic feet of water that will be coming in at a high rate of speed. This is a significant problem. It needs to be approached from a comprehensive approach from top to bottom. If we have several extra million dollars, we are indeed going to try to fix this problem. It may make sense now to look at fixing the entire problem from top to bottom, if [inaudible] contributing, a couple more million dollars to fix it once and for all instead of putting another fix on this thing, and then pushing the problem downstream, which is exactly what we’re going to do again. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: A lot has been said about this problem, with the creeks, and I guess we could never completely give an answer here. But this city has always, in my mind, we are minoring in the majors and majoring in the minors. Things that we should be addressing, the water situation with this community, is very, very important. We talking about our sales, our SPLOST money and what we looking at. Instead, we are focusing on this [inaudible] issue and the rain that we had. We had a lot of rain but in that short amount of time. This city has lost money and we have found money. I got a big problem with losing and finding money, but we ought to be able to at least keep our retention pond and our basins clear. When you look at Tubman Home Road and Gordon Highway, two hour rain. The Sheriff’s Department had to block the traffic. And right behind the BiLo store there is a retention pond that sits higher than the parking area. Commissioner Cheek and myself have been out there and we walked that, when people thing we micro managing and we, we do it on our own time. We don’t get paid for it, but regardless of that, we been out there and looked at the retention ponds that we got around this city that we not even keeping them up. We don’t even have them working and if we got a million dollars, we ought to be able to come up with some money staffing those facilities or those people to be able to keep that open, so we can do something until we put a plan together. Commissioner Mays was right. We need to have a plan that’s going to fix it once and for all. I mean we can keep patching it and keep patching it and that’s what we doing to continue to do. But Commissioner Shepard brought up about Best Buy. Constituent sit there and sit in his car and noticed that the retention pond not catching water. At that same location at BiLo on Tubman Home Road, there’s a Richmond County Sheriff’s Department car that was window high in water. I mean the whole care was almost submerged and the retention pond behind that had been [inaudible]. So we are letting people from up, developers who developed these properties, we [inaudible] people in place to make sure they do what we say they should be done, or we’re not saying they should be doing anything. Somebody is leaving the gate open, and these people going to be suffering into we get accountable, Steve, until we as Commissioners hold these people accountable. We pay our good money for work. The same folk been putting down pipe in this county for 40 or 50 years. And then they come back and put it down and then get a change order and it change again. Commissioner Mays mentioned 31 Laney Walker. They got a hole in Laney Walker big enough for you to bury some bodies in, Willie, and I’m hoping they put a big enough pipe in right now so they don’t have to come back. Rather have one that’s too big than one that’s too small. All I’m saying is we have not been accountable here. This report we talked about. We don’t have all the facts in that. I’m sick and tired of getting pieces of stuff that they give us that they want us to have. We are elected for the people and we ought to have all the information. Then if we don’t make the right choice, you can say well, you had it all. But we don’t have all of the numbers. I’m tired of folks hiding money or putting money in one place and telling me it’s somewhere else. So, Mr. Mayor, I think enough’s been said. I don’t know what the solution is, but we have got to be accountable ourselves and make sure that we’ve done all we can do and [inaudible] plan together so it will alleviate that problem and not have it continuing and ongoing. Mr. Mayor: All right, thank you. Mr. Kolb, we have three days left in this week. We’ve got two days coming up here for this weekend. Do you think within those five days you and your staff can get together and do some brainstorming and bring a report to the Engineering Services Committee Monday on what some of the options might be to take a comprehensive look at these drainage basins and some suggestions for moving forward? Mr. Kolb: Yes. We can get together. If we have not completed a report, we will at least have made substantial progress and share with you what options we are looking at. Mr. Mayor: I think that would be important to get that done for the Monday meeting if we can. There is a gentleman, Mr. Philpot, who wanted to talk to us a bit about Chelsea Drive; is that correct? Okay, Mr. Philpot, if you’ll come up and give us your name and address for the record. Mr. Philpot: My name is Mike Philpot. I live at 3122 Chelsea Drive. I have lived on Chelsea Drive about 30 years. We’ve seen it become from a little babbling brook to a raging nightmare. Talk about the 1,000 year flood, 500 year flood, the 100 year flood, the 10 year flood. Every time it rains, it floods. It doesn’t matter what name you give it. You’re putting more water in Rae’s Creek and Crane Creek than it can handle. And right there at the turn, at Ramsgate Road where Rae’s Creek and Crane Creek join, it comes down and it makes an immediate, almost 90 degree left hand turn. The left hand side of the bank is higher than the right hand side. The right hand side is the street side where people live. The left hand side is the woods. Water runs over the top of that and out in the street. The little culvert -- I think they’re 18” culverts, they’re directly across the street from each other so they tie into each other, so it’s just one 18” pipe that goes about 100 yards back in the woods and it dumps out in a ditch. If the ditch is grown up, there’s no water that’s going to go through it. These little 18” pipes, and I think there are two or three of them on the street, I can’t remember, they can’t handle an overflowing creek under any condition. And until we do something that will open up the creek, the flowing of the water, I think the problem lies from Berckman Road down to Lake Olmstead, and I could care less whether there’s an Augusta National there or not. 32 You’re talking about -- I’ve lived there 30 years. I’ve paid property taxes for 30 years. And I’m not getting any satisfaction from the County that I live in, and I trusted the County Commissioners at the time to do the right thing, do the proper thing, go through there no matter whose toes they stepped on, and alleviate the problem. This young lady that spoke a minute ago was talking about there will always be flooding there, but we can alleviate. I don’t want water in my house at all. Ever. Not once a year, not every ten years, I don’t want it in there at all. And I think the problem can be alleviated, but it’s going to take somebody with enough brass to drop enough machinery in that creek to dig it out all the way down to Lake Olmstead to increase the flow. Because it bottlenecks from Berckman Road down there somewhere. They talk about these gates that are open. When are the gates open? When the water was 4’ deep in front of my house? In 1990 -- I have a mailbox in front of my house, and the top of the mailbox is higher than I stand. You could only see the top brick. Now there have been several times -- I think we have had eight or nine times since then -- I have had water under my house, I have had new air conditioners. There are others in this room that have had the same problem, that the flood insurance comes in. Each time it rains, it gets all that nasty filth under your house and goes into your duct work. That mean you’ve got to take your duct work out. That means you’ve got to replace it. You’ve got to replace your unit. I’m 60 years old. I’m too old for these games anymore. I’ve given the City, the County 13 years to rectify the problem, and they’ve made it worse. I’d like to see some action. I’d like to see something done and I’d like to see more than people talk about talking about it and talking about doing something. I want to see somebody doing something. All this money y’all spent, it’s bringing me more water. Go on and complete the job, clean out the rest of it. If it means taking the dam to the pond down there, go ahead and do it, be done with it. Who is more important, the Augusta National or the residents of this city and community which have made it what it is? Thank you. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Mayor: Is there anything further? We have a motion on the floor. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, one of the things that really needs to be addressed by this Commission is taking these bridges and culverts that we do put into these major drainage basins and adjusting them to a 500 or 1,000 year mark, not only to compensate for the additional runoff we’re getting, but to allow for some additional runoff to occur in the future, which is probably the case. This is going to cause a significant cost increase to work that we do on creek basins and so forth, but it will allow us to conduct water through at a much higher rate, which is what has to happen in the Rae’s Creek basin in order to solve the problem. But again, and I will go back to this, people in the West who live on the side of a mountain have flooding from time to time when the right amount of rainfall occurs. If this problem had occurred in south Augusta at the same rate, we would have had 200 to 300 homes on Butler Creek with water in them. To say that there can 33 never be flooding is unrealistic. To say that we can mitigate it down to a point where it’s only 3” to 4” per hour or worse and you won’t have problems, there are things that we can budget. And we can engineer and we can solve. But there will be times when there will be flooding, anywhere in this city, even if you live on the side of a hill. It happens in other parts of the country. If you watch the Weather Channel, it’s happening now. But this is a problem and it’s a good point that you make. We have got to address it from the bottom up, where the problem occurs. If we don’t, we are doing the same mistakes that we’ve had in the past. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Boyles: Mr. Mayor Mr. Mayor: Yes, Mr. Boyles. Mr. Boyles: Mr. Mayor, very briefly before we vote the motion, I just want to thank the indulgence of the Commission for listening to this. I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Beard when he said we need to look at the entire city. I prefaced my remarks by saying I was talking about Districts 1, 3 and 7, and I think the entire city needs to be looked at. And again, I appreciate the folks who have taken their time to come down here and give us their opinions. I appreciate the Commission and I appreciate the staff who are working with us to get this solved. And I hope now we’ve got it all on the table and we know which way we’re going. So I appreciate you, Mr. Mayor, for giving me the time and chance to do that. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: All right. Mr. Mays: Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Mays. Mr. Mays: Just a point of clarification. On the motion, and I’m sure I’m going to vote for it. I just wanted to know specifically what are they being instructed to bring back and when? Mr. Mayor: Mr. Kolb, can you respond to the Commissioner’s question? He wants to know on the motion that’s on the table now what have you been instructed to bring back to our next Commission meeting, what information will you have for the Commissioners? Not the committee meeting that I asked you about, but the Commission meeting, the subject of the motion. Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission, what, as I understand it, what you would like for us to do is to provide you with possible funding sources to continue the project for Willow Creek, the $1 million, and to find a possible funding source, and we’ll be looking at SPLOST and we’ll be looking at other areas. Mr. Mays: Okay. I just wanted to get that clear, George, for a reason. The -- I see where we’re going with the -- I don’t have a problem with us looking at that, but what 34 my, what my problem is, though, if we got a committee meeting in between the time that we meet, the regular Commission meet, and I’ll vote for my colleague’s motion to deal with that, but what I’m probably more concerned since -- and I believe you had mentioned this, Mr. Mayor, in terms of staff gathering some things hopefully for committee meeting, I kind of want to know from that basis are we going to -- and I said when I opened up we couldn’t solve all this in one day -- but are we going to -- and don’t necessarily have to hear from every level of staff, but are we going to at the committee meeting or at the regular Commission meeting, but I much prefer it being dealt with in committee. I think at some point we need to start talking whether the engineering firm is present at the committee meeting or whether they do it with staff and pass it on. The reason why I’m saying present, the current Public Works Director is just like, just like current Commissioners. You inherit whatever is [inaudible] you inherit but I think you’ve got some [inaudible] factors in here that I think we need to start discussing, if we’ve going to seriously start talking about the what the money is going to do correct. I need to start hearing from the folk that have been designing, planning, putting all this together, whether it’s at committee or whether it’s at Commission, to start saying whether this is working, whether it’s not working. Somewhere in there, that’s where I think we need to start having some dialog, because I think [inaudible] to a point of fixing Willow Creek, and that’s all well and good. If that would relieve that, I’d be the first person to say fine, let’s do that. But I think there are some things that’s going to impact even Willow Creek that we need to talk about and I’m just wondering how you are going to jump from coming up with a money problem to solve something to unless you discuss something in committee that’s going to talk about some change of plan within there. I want to know whether or not, even if we appropriate money, I want to know at this point in time whether that’s going to [inaudible] or whether they’re going to suggest something else to us. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Mays, that’s why I asked Mr. Kolb to get with the staff and bring us a road map at the committee meeting Monday, give us a starting point. Mr. Mays: And I may have [inaudible] particular Commission meeting cause I was more concerned about what’s coming to us at the committee than at the Commission meeting. And I’m going to vote for Bill’s motion that’s on the floor to deal with the other, but I think, though, you’re going to have some things that are going to occur in that committee that might even change the process of what occurs in the motion that you’re doing here. If that information comes like you suggested it to do. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Kolb agreed that he could have that for us Monday. Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission, I couldn’t agree more with what Commissioner Mays is saying, because there is a possible impact, you could possibly be setting some precedents, you could be looking at the tip of an iceberg, and so we want to take a look at that and come back to you with various options on how to deal, first of all, with the immediate problem with Willow Creek, but also how to start to look at the bigger that I’m afraid is going to surface as we move along. 35 Mr. Mayor: Mr. Beard? Mr. Beard: Yes, Mr. Mayor. It looks like to me it’s going to take more than three or four days to figure all this stuff out. And I sympathize with the people out there and I understand their plight. But to me it appears that what we need is the entire committee looking at a comprehensive plan here, because look like if we start something at Willow Creek or some other area up there, it’s going to impact another area down [inaudible] other areas along, and I think we just need something, a committee or something to go and really look at this, and [inaudible] fix it once and for all, attempt to fix it once and for all. Because even if we come up with some plans next week, then how much money is going to be allotted to this area or what are we going to do about the impact on other areas, and I think all that needs to be considered. And I don’t mind going along with this for information purposes, but I think we are going to really have to look at this when we start funding this. Mr. Mayor: You’re absolutely right, Mr. Beard, and the effect of the motion would be for the Administrator to come back to identify that funding, but that doesn’t mean that the funding is automatically appropriated and get started immediately. We are going to have to try to do this in a very logical manner so we don’t create a problem while we’re trying to solve a problem. Mr. Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, we do have a work session scheduled in Engineering Services for Friday that we can bring whatever information is available or discussed at least to pass forward on this. Mr. Mayor: Let’s go ahead, if we may, and dispose of the motion that is on the floor. All in favor of that motion, please vote in the affirmative. Motion carries 10-0. Mr. Mayor: While we’re on the issue of flooding, was there anyone else who had a flooding issue that was not specifically addressed and wanted to bring some new information to our attention? I’ll give you -- it’s important we don’t want to stifle anybody, but I’m going to give you a minute each, okay, cause we’ve spent an hour and a half on this already. So if you’d like to come up and give us you name and address. Mr. Germany: Hello, my name is James Germany. I live in Pepperidge subdivision, 3442 Monte Carlo. And I have sympathy for the members of the Raes Creek area, the other areas here that are flooded out. I, too, was flooded out, but not by water, but by human waste. I came home on 7/17 and found my home flooded. Every square inch of my 1500 square feet home flooded with human waste. An inch-and-a-half deep. Everything was ruined. I’ve talked with the adjusters and Richmond County and they are working with me on my home repair, but the contents, we have a problem with the contents. I don’t need millions of dollars to put my life back together, my family and myself together. I don’t need a million dollars to get my daughter her toys back that she lost, her little shoes and toys and stuff that she lost. I don’t need a million dollars to get 36 my pictures that have been destroyed that I’ll never see again. All I need is $12,000. There’s a $12,000 difference between the money that they offered me and what it’s going to take to put my life back together. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Thank you very much. The Attorney has advised me that he has this on the agenda to discuss in the legal session this afternoon and then we’ll continue that discussion. Mr. Cheek. Mr. Cheek: One of the things that I’ve brought up several times and I want to bring up concerning flooding. If this had happened at Butler Creek, we would have had several homes under water. We have a problem with beaver dams that are blocking the I creek. There is currently no funding to go in and clear those out. We would like to -- would, I guess, to make it in the form of a motion that when staff comes back with, looking for costs that we consider some funding to go in and remove those beaver dams and restore the creek to its normal channel. Currently there’s about 300 acres of detention capability or capacity in that area in the event of flooding that would prevent it from going into homes, and currently with the beaver dams that capacity is taken up and flooded, so I’d just, would ask that we come back with some funding to cover removal of those beaver dams and restoring that creek back to its channel. Mr. Williams: Second. Mr. Mayor: Just a moment. We have a motion on the floor. Is there discussion on the motion from Commissioner Cheek? We’ll go ahead and call the question then. All in favor of the motion, please vote in the affirmative. Mr. Beard out. Motion carries 9-0. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Now we want to continue to hear from the other people that want to be heard. If you can keep your comments to one minute. If you can come up and give us your name and address for the record. Ms. Philpot: My name is Gay Philpot and I live on Chelsea Drive and I’m really nervous. So y’all just bear with me for one minute. But one thing that I feel wasn’t addressed. I wrote this down from the internet last night, although somebody from FEMA told me about it in 1990. After the tragic flood in Toccoa in 1997, the Georgia General Assembly passed the Georgia [inaudible] of 1978 to inspect non-federal dams and identify those which pose a threat to life if they should fail. I believe a Category I dam exists on Walton Way Extension at what we used to call Aumond Pond. I don’t know what it’s called now. Which [inaudible] terrific loss of life for those of us living in the creek below that dam. I would like to ask you gentlemen who checks that dam every year and if it’s checked every year? I would like to know who they report to when it is checked. I would like to know if those whose lives are endangered by a breakage of that dam could have the knowledge that that dam is checked. It would even be nice to know that it is checked more than once a year. When, last Wednesday when the flood 37 occurred, I was at work, and I had to go home in my good clothes and my good shoes, which are ruined, and try to move automobiles cause my husband was out of town. Well, I didn’t get there in time and we had damage to three automobiles. One of which is a business associate of my husband’s who was parked there. I also had to remove my pets as well as myself. Well, I didn’t make it all the way out because when I tried to leave, the water was so quick that I couldn’t get the car, and I was parked in my neighbor’s yard up by the front porch, but I couldn’t get the car back out the way I had come in. My Labrador jumped off the retaining wall that we built to keep the flood water out of property, which has done nothing, and at that she almost drowned. If she hadn’t been a strong swimmer, she wouldn’t have made it back to me. We sat there while firemen told us that if it rained one more drop, there would be a mandatory evacuation. And I said, you know, just get somebody to help me get these dogs out. If there are not more people here today, it’s because we have given up hope. We have been through three different Commissioners, different reigns of Commissioners, different service. You know, I want to ask you something. Now this is a woman’s way of looking at it, and I’m not an engineer and I know that so many of you are much smarter than me. If you were sick, if you were terminally ill, and you went to the doctor and he said to you if you give me $10 million I’m going to save your life and I’m going to cure you, and you said I think I’ll get a second, that’s real expensive. I’m going to have borrow the money from a bunch of people in Richmond County, cause it’s really not my money, it’s their money. But then you go to another doctor and he said okay, I’m going to fix you for $10 million but I guarantee I’ll fix you. If I don’t fix you, I’ll give you your money back. Who would you choose? What would you do? There is a fix for the people on Chelsea Drive. The fix is to remove the people. You can remove the people on Chelsea Drive for a fraction of work and money that we have been discussing for 15 or 20 years. We move the people and let the creek go where it’s supposed to go, where God made it go. If you don’t believe it’s a manmade problem, then you ask FEMA. They will tell you up front our flooding is not a God problem, it is a manmade problem. Help us. We have put our trust in you. You need to help us. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Ms. Philpot. Mr. Kolb, can you have staff get back with Ms. Philpot on our dam inspection problem she discussed? All right, are there any others? Okay. We’ll go ahead. Yes, sir? Give you one minute, please, your name and address for the record. Mr. Witcher: Thank you very much for hearing my comments. My name is Mark Witcher. I’m at 3124 Chelsea Drive. I think that we’ve addressed this issue and discussed it quite at length of taking care of the problem in a comprehensive way and a long term way. And while a solution hopefully will be final, it will take a very long time to be able to design it properly. So the question I have for you is in the meantime, what are we going to do? At this last time on Wednesday afternoon, I had, I guess fortune, of pulling two people out of the street who were floating down the street in 2-1/2 to 3 feet of water. The current was so swift they could not keep their footing. I’ve lived on Chelsea Drive for approximately a year and we were told earlier that the design outlets are 38 designed for 25 years, for the gutters. The street has flooded at least five times in that year because it’s not working. So while we are looking at a long term solution and I think that is absolutely the way to go, what are we going to do in the short term? Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Thank you very much. If there is nothing further on flooding, let’s move ahead with the order of the day. Madame Clerk, we’ll take those items that were pulled from the consent agenda. Start with item number 16. I think we can go on ahead, Ms. Bonner. The Clerk: 16. Motion to approve the increase of 2003 budgeted rent for Housing & Neighborhood using Urban Services Fund as a source of revenue. (Approved by Administrative Services Committee July 28, 2003) Mr. Mayor: Mr. Beard. Mr. Beard: Mr. Mayor, I pulled this because on Monday I believe that we are going to hear from Public Services and HND and also ANIC, and I was just -- it’s my opinion that before we pay out any money, which we know we probably have to do it at some point in time, let’s hear from those people first and then we would determine at So I’m going to another time paying out the funds that are necessary to be paid out. make that in the form of a motion. Well, it’s going back to committee anyway, and at that time we will determine when we will pay the funds. But I don’t see paying these funds out prior to hearing the entities involved. Mr. Mayor: So you just want to receive that as information today? Mr. Beard: We can. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Colclough: Second. Mr. Mayor: Second to the motion. Any discussion? All in favor of that motion then please vote in the affirmative. Mr. Mays: Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Yes, Mr. Mays. Mr. Mays: We just -- I’m trying to -- we receive it? 39 Mr. Beard: My motion was, at the beginning was that we wait until we hear from the people on Monday, prior to that. And the Mayor asked we just receive it as information, and I said that’s fine, just receiving this as information. Mr. Mayor: This is a formality, receive it as information, and you’re going to discuss it Monday in committee. Bring back some action that you need. Mr. Bridges: I have no problem with that. Mr. Mayor: Not dying, Mr. Mays. Very much alive. Okay. Motion carries 9-0. Mr. Mayor: The next item if 45, Madame Clerk. If you’ll read the caption. The Clerk: 45. Approve award for bid for Corporate Communications RFQ # 03-056A to The Alison Group. (Deferred from July 7 Finance) Mr. Mayor: Mr. Hankerson. Mr. Hankerson: Yes, I had some questions about this award bid. I read in the caption that if we approve this today, to accept the bid from The Alison Group and then a contract would be written and I just wanted to make sure, can we get an estimate of the project and how much they would be allowed to spend? What is this costing us, the method of contract, those sort of things from this, and then also I’d like to know what should we expect as a result of this Corporate Communications pan. I just need you to explain what it’s all about, how much money it’s going to cost us, how long the contract is going to be. Because I know that we talked about advertising and so forth. Could the Administrator or Mr. Hicks explain what is this all about? Mr. Mayor: Mr. Kolb. Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission, this is a contract that we are starting out primarily with Utilities but also piggy-backing city-wide through the Administrator’s office. As you recall, the Commission desired for us to put together a communication plan for the city and appropriated about $50,000 for that purpose. And the intent was to begin to get information to the community about how tax monies are being spent on special projects, what areas were happening in certain Districts within the community, and I say certain, but all Districts. To promote generally Augusta government and we are now in the process of working with the communications firm that we will select to pick the vehicles to make that happen. For example, when we promoted the web site, we had an insert in the paper that we put together in terms of describing what that web site, how to access it, and the kind of information that was there. We will continue to do those kinds of things for other initiatives that Augusta has going. With 40 respect to the Utilities Department, they will be developing newsletters that would go out perhaps three, four times a year to tell the community what’s going on with their capital projects, what is new going on in the Utilities Department, for example their new billing system, and providing the community with information that will be of benefit in terms of promoting the image of Augusta’s Utilities Department. Mr. Hankerson: Mr. Mayor, a follow-up. Mr. Mayor: Go ahead. Mr. Hankerson: Thank you. I want under the impression that the advertising and so forth was going to be in-house, when we hired an Assistant -- Administrator Assistant, I thought Ms. Seigler would be heading that up and we’d be getting all the advertisement from in-house. I’m just concerned about the cost of this contract, how much it’s going to cost us, whether it’s going to be a ceiling on it, the length of the contract, whether it’s going to be one year, two year, four year. And I guess I, from the caption, the money is coming from where, Mr. Kolb? Mr. Kolb: Part of the money -- well, let me back up. First of all, Ms. Seigler was hired to be part of our public information, marketing, corporate communications person. But that does not mean that we have all the resources to make that happen, and this is what or why we are contracting with someone to help make that happen. Fund will come from the General Fund for the portion that would be for the Augusta organization as a whole. Specific funds for Utilities advertisements or Utilities initiatives, I should say -- it’s not really advertising -- but promotions would come from the Utilities budget. Mr. Hankerson: Question. If -- then what role with the Assistant Administrator have now with -- Mr. Kolb: She will be coordinating and assisting and approving the promotions that would be put together. And also assisting in that effort. I also meant to say that there are internal communications that we are working on, too. For example, employee newsletters and such. Mr. Hankerson: When will we start processing, looking at the budget, our budget sessions for the next year? When will that start? Mr. Kolb: This fall. Mr. Hankerson: So since this is coming from the General Fund, wouldn’t this impact the, next year’s budget? Mr. Kolb: You have already appropriated the monies for that for this year. We’re talking about expending dollars for this year. Mr. Hankerson: And that’s this year, this year ends when? 41 Mr. Kolb: December. Mr. Hankerson: So we’re talking about now from August to December, this contract will be from August to December? Mr. Kolb: It will be a one year contract, but as are all contracts, subject to the appropriation of the Commission. Mr. Hankerson: That’s why I’m asking then. This will impact our budget, so is it a great urgency to start this now with only just a few months before we start discussing the budget and approving the budget, or just bring this in as a new project for the budget, of next year? I think it need to be brought in as a new project and then we could go for a full year [inaudible] we have time to review the contract, put those time limits in there, the amount of money, the ceiling that it’s going to cost us, how much it’s going to cost us, how it will impact the General Fund for next year’s budget. I hope that Commissioners will see that is what we need to do. Mr. Kolb: It was approved and discussed at your last budget session. The Commission voted that this would be a program that they wanted to implement. And so to treat it as a new program would be in error since it was put into the budget by the Commission for this fiscal year. Mr. Hankerson: I know it was, but this is August. The year is almost gone. Yesterday is gone. So since that it wasn’t that important to implement at the beginning of the year, is it that important for us to do it just for this short period of time? Sir? That was a question. Mr. Mayor: That was a question. Mr. Kolb: Commissioner Hankerson, the Commission can do as they please with the communications plan. We have been putting specs together, working on projects that we wanted the firm to work with us on. This is not a one-shot deal where you just do it for a year and you stop. We intended for it to be a long term and put in as a fabric of this organization to begin to promote the kinds of programs that you’re undertaking as an organization. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Kolb, let me ask a couple of questions, then we’ll get to the Commissioner’s questions. In the agenda item that’s been prepared for us, down at the bottom of the recommendation, it talks about The Alison Group doing some mentoring with another agency called Essential. Do we have an existing contract with Essential, since the caption on this item is to give a contract to Alison? Mr. Kolb: No, we do not. But in the interest of furthering disadvantages businesses, there were, there was a company that we were very impressed with that bid 42 on it that we would like to -- but they only had the expertise in one area, and we wanted The Alison Group to subcontract with them to do one phase of the project. Mr. Mayor: Well, the highest rate charged by The Alison Group, according to the backup information is $125 an hour for strategic planning. The, this other organization, Essential, their hourly rates ranged up to $185. If they’re going to be mentored, why are they paid more than the person that’s doing the mentoring? Mr. Kolb: Well, that is to be negotiated as to what that fee would be, but that is one of the influences that led us to pick The Alison Group. Overall their, their rates were lower than the other two. Mr. Mayor: Well, is The Alison Group going to subcontract with Essential? Because apparently there won’t be any relationship between the City and Essential. Mr. Kolb: That is correct. And we will negotiate that deal. Each project that they do -- for example, if they’re going to do a newsletter, they will submit a cost ahead of time of how much that is going to cost. And at that point in time, we will determine if that is a reasonable cost and we’ll know if it’s too much, if we should go forward with it. Mr. Mayor: Since this involves Utilities, is there some reason the Utilities Department Director did not sign off on the agenda item? Could we hear from him? Mr. Hicks, you didn’t sign this. Mr. Hicks: No, sir, not at all. I was kind of surprised with I saw it that I hadn’t signed it, because I’m fully in concurrence with it. And as I was telling Commissioner Hankerson, the Essential Group was indeed a group of young ladies from Atlanta. We were very impressed by them. However, they didn’t quite have -- to put it in -- I mean they didn’t quite have the firepower to do the whole thing. The Alison Group is a local group that is very good in what they do, so we wanted them to work with Essential. And Essential, one of the young ladies that founded that group is from Augusta. And I think she’s the one that helps with the debutants that you see at the Neighborhood Alliance Banquet. The debutants. Anyway, we are very impressed with them, so we felt like if we could get The Alison Group on board and have them work with Essential, we’d get a real good group and help those young ladies develop and everybody would be the better off for it. So that’s what we were after. There’s no reason. I don’t know why I didn’t sign it. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Kolb: It was an oversight. We prepared the agenda item in our office and it just did not get back around to the Utilities Director. Mr. Mayor: We have some Commissioners who have some questions. Mr. Shepard and on down. 43 Mr. Shepard: What I didn’t see -- thank you, Mr. Mayor. What I didn’t see here was the amount this is going to impact. I don’t see what we’re going to expend in this area. Do we know yet? I mean we’re not going to spend any money with this item; is that correct? You’re going to come back with a contract that [inaudible] how much money we’re going to spend? Mr. Kolb: That is correct. The terms, etc. Mr. Shepard: So what I would like to know is what we budgeted to spend in that area. Mr. Kolb: In the General Fund, you budgeted, you set aside $50,000 for this purpose. In the Utilities Department -- Max, help me out, I’m not sure how much you set aside. Mr. Hicks: It was roughly that same amount of money. Not knowing exactly what we were going to do, we just wanted to set aside some money that we could begin to work with a firm and see how much it would cost. I’ve never worked with a firm like that before, so frankly, if it was a water line or sewer line I could tell you how much we would spend for how many feet of water line or sewer line, but this is new territory for me, so we’re going to have to walk into it gingerly. Mr. Kolb: And let me just say that each project that we do, we will have to sit down and determine how much it is and come to an agreement, based on their hourly rate. Mr. Shepard: Well, if this is for Utilities, as I understand it, why isn’t the whole matter charged to Utilities? Why not budget it that way? We have enough pressures in the General Fund every year -- if this is going to be for Utilities, why don’t we charge it entirely to Utilities? Mr. Kolb: Well, one reason is because there are, for example, initiatives that the Commission has undertaken or will undertake that we would like to promote or at least get the message out to the community that has nothing to do with Utilities. For example, vacant lot cleanups. Storm water issues. Those kinds of initiatives we believe you ought to promote and talk about your position on that and then we have that put in as an insert in the paper. A report card on how SPLOST dollars are being spent. Or how the General Fund budget is divided up among the various agencies. That has nothing to do with Utilities, and we believe it’s inappropriate for us to spend dollars of Utilities on just strictly General Fund items. Mr. Shepard: But as I read the RFQ, it’s a response to request for qualifications, Corporate Communications Plan for Augusta Utilities RFP 03-056A. It doesn’t say that we are doing anything other than Utilities. Why isn’t it going to do more than Utilities, why isn’t that in the RFQ? I mean if it weren’t there, maybe others would have bid on it? I’m kind of getting -- 44 Mr. Kolb: We went out to bid twice on this trying to get more bidders to bid on it. And this was the very best we could do. Mr. Hicks: [inaudible] Mr. Kolb: Let me finish, Max, and I’ll, I’ll go from there. We wanted the contract to be primarily with Utilities because they will have an ongoing type of project. For example, the newsletter that I had earlier discussed that we would include in their billings would come out three to four times a year. And we know that on a regular basis. The things that the Administration may do may be more sporadic and spur-of-the- moment types initiatives. So therefore, we would take the secondary position in that particular initiative. Mr. Shepard: You’re not talking any money here, but I’m a little skeptical of these type expenses in this kind of budget year. I mean I just, I’m skeptical, Max. Mr. Hicks: If I might speak to the Utilities portion of it, if we are to continue to grow and to be recognized [inaudible] not just a distinguished educational and outreach program, but if we are to hope to win the best in the state, which we were in stiff competition for this year, it will take spending money for something such as this for Utilities, because there’s a dedicated, planned, really well put together outreach, and we can compete well this year based on what we had. But if we -- and when I say -- we don’t do it just to win, but that indicates that we are providing our customers with the best knowledge of how we’re operating we could do. And that’s what we want to get out to them. We want to get out to our customers just the very best that we can and we want it to look good and we want them to be pleased with it and say this is where, you know, the Utilities Department is working and what they are accomplishing. And we also want to reach our schools and the educators with that same kind of message. So this is -- we would like to have it in any event. Whether you want to have it on the General Fund or not, we would like to have it as a tool to go forward with. Mr. Shepard: Seems like to me that’s what we asked for, is a tool for Utilities, and Utilities should pay for it. Mr. Hicks: We had budget money to do it, but I would agree with the Commissioner, I mean with the Administrator, y’all can spend -- I grin when I say this, I mean it’s not being smart-alecky, y’all could direct us to spend Utilities money however you wanted to, but I don’t think it would be best to spend it on city-wide Commission projects rather than Utilities projects. But y’all can choose to do what you want to. Mr. Colclough: I just wanted to ask, are these [inaudible] projects or [inaudible] client conferences, $115, creative directions, [inaudible] an hour? 45 Mr. Hicks: They would obviously have people that would be behind this. For instance, when we deal with USI, that’s one you are familiar with, they give us the same kind of thing except instead of account supervision, they’d have an account supervisor. Mr. Colclough: [inaudible] on a sporadic basis rather then [inaudible] basis and I was wondering why we would want to spend $50,000 on a sporadic basis [inaudible] at these rates, hourly rates [inaudible]. Mr. Kolb: When I said sporadic basis, what I meant is that we may, in the fall or the summer, put out an insert in the paper. There would be no specific time when we would actually do it. No set date. As compared to every other month for Utilities or every quarter, in Utilities there would be a newsletter that would go out with a deadline. That’s what I’m saying. Mr. Colclough: Do we need a firm to put an insert in the newspaper? Mr. Kolb: Yes. Mr. Colclough: We do? Mr. Kolb: We do not have the equipment or the expertise. Mr. Colclough: We don’t have, with Ms. Seigler? Mr. Kolb: We do not have the resources to make it happen. Mr. Colclough: Ms. Seigler, who comes from CVB, does not have the expertise to write an article for the newspaper? Mr. Kolb: Yes, she does. But to do the layout for a publication that would go to the insert of a newspaper, go out and take the pictures and have the machinery to make it happen, no, we do not have those kind of resources on staff. Mr. Colclough: A digital camera and computer can’t handle it? Mr. Mayor: Mr. Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I know that at one time we used to have a pretty informative publication that we would put in the daily occasionally that told the people where their one cent sales tax money and everything else that we were doing as a city, where their money went, what was being done, what improvements were being made. We’ve been absent of that for four years, I guess, now. It’s my understanding that this is an attempt to reestablish that link with our public, to provide them with the information about the additional fire stations that are being built, about the community centers, the road pavings, the drainage projects and other things, the water system and other things that are being done. There is a complete and total -- with the exception of 46 the special publications that have been sent out by Utilities and been recognized for them -- a total vacuum of the in-depth type of information that we can provide our citizens ourselves versus what is afforded in the local media in their limited space and so forth. I have for one asked for us to resume that particular information, that newsletter, if you will, for years. Sure it costs money to mail it, and for those inserts and all, but quite frankly, people on one side of the county, unless a project is going on on their street, have no idea what’s going on in other parts of the county, and have rightfully had questions about where is the money going? You know, we can wait to the last minute, when the next SPLOST comes up, or go to 1,000 meetings in the next ten years and listen to people complain about the same story of you waste our money, you don’t do anything good with it, or we can begin to promote this city’s positive steps that it has taken in the past few years in some meaningful way. I know that this costs money and I trust our Finance Committee has done such a wonderful job of keeping the financial reins tight and keeping us out of trouble, but here ago to further delay, defer and otherwise deny the public the information that they deserve, that we should be promoting this city with, I think is a mistake. This was funded last year and there is an amount of money set aside to cover this for the remainder of the year? Mr. Kolb: Yes. Mr. Cheek: And will this contract -- you said it runs a year, so this amount will cover from whenever the inception of the contract back again until next year? Mr. Kolb: That’s to be determined, but we can go with a one year agreement with the option to renew it several times. Two or three or four times. Mr. Cheek: But this term will allow us to pay for a full year under last year’s budgeted figures, budgeted dollars? Mr. Kolb: Yes. Mr. Cheek: For a full year, and then next year will come back again for renewal? Mr. Kolb: That is correct. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, I’m going to make a motion that we approve. Mr. Bridges: Second it. Mr. Mayor: Motion and second. Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Kolb, my first question, I guess, was this the best bid or low bid? What -- Mr. Kolb: We had a committee. It’s really hard, as some have pointed out, that we cannot get a lump sum or there is not a key number, so what we did is we had a 47 committee that sat down and interviewed those persons or those firms that had actually put in RFQ’s, and from our evaluation we believe that the firm that best fit our needs was The Alison Group. Mr. Williams: You did say that the money was appropriated in our budget for this year, but you also said -- and I got confused cause the question you answered for Commissioner Hankerson was different from the last time I heard that. Do you have to negotiate with them for the price so you know what it’s going to be for next year? Mr. Kolb: We negotiated the hourly rates. Mr. Williams: Okay. Mr. Kolb: On each project that we do. For example, if we’re going to do an October newsletter, then we will sit down with them and ask them how much will it cost for us to, from cradle to grave, to produce that particular newsletter. And the newsletter is a bad example. Let’s talk about an insert in the newspaper. How much is the media going to cost, how much is it going to cost to produce it, who is going to do what? Those things would be negotiated on a project-by-project basis. Mr. Williams: I agree with Commissioner Cheek about the newsletter and what we should be doing. But also, I want to bring another point, and that was, Mr. Mayor, Jim, when we went to school in Savannah, GMA, and I always learn something and I learned something down there this time. I learned that Albany, Georgia, has a newsletter that they do themselves, that they get private businesses to buy advertisement in that newsletter, it’s a city paper that the sponsorship, it’s sponsored through private enterprise, to work on selling whatever they selling, and that’s strictly a newsletter that they do. I’m like Commissioner Hankerson, cause I was under the impression that we hire somebody to be a media person for us, to put stuff together, to go out and great the public, to talk about the tax digest, to talk about the Fire Department, to talk about whatever. Now, here we are now looking at this cost. I got the young lady’s card from Albany who is doing this project and they had it in the convention center showing what their city was doing. This young lady willing to come to Augusta to share with us how they put that paper together. They sold advertisements around the city. They put only the city’s news in that advertisement. And I think they dispersed it, meaning I think they mailed it from the city to the residents in that area. And it was really, really effective and it was really cost efficient. It didn’t cost the city even close to what we’re talking about here. I don’t remember the figures but I do have a card. I mean I’ve got it somewhere in my piles of cards, Jim, I try to keep up with those stuff when I got down here. I got a lot of education from this Commission seat. I think that, you know, we need to wait. I mean I’m not fighting this project, I don’t think we ought to throw it out, but I think we need to look at this very carefully. Commissioner Shepard brought a good point, if it’s going to be for Utilities, if it going to be for whatever department, if they got the money I think it ought to come out of there and not impact us. We just need to wait, I think, and look at some things differently. We hired a third person. I say a third person. We hired another person in the office, and my understanding was when we hired that person, was to be a 48 communication person, be a public relation person for this government to meet and greet and to share information and I really thought we was in the year 2003 when we hired her. I thought we was really fixing to show something. Now we got to turn around and hire somebody else, that they going hire somebody else, and we don’t even know what the price going to be yet. So I think we might want to wait. We might just want to look at this. I mean I don’t think we ought to kick it out, but I think we ought to back up with it and try to see can we come up with something that’s going to be more cost effective. Mr. Mayor: Would you like to make a substitute motion? Mr. Williams: Yes, sir, Mr. Mayor, I’d like to make a substitute motion. Mr. Mayor: All right. Mr. Williams: That we just hold this for at least thirty days until, give us the time to kind of look at the program and I can get that information to the Administrator. He can contact Albany and this young lady that was in the convention center there said that she would be glad to share any information, cause it was a good program, it was working there, and you know, we might be able to implement it here in Augusta. Mr. Mayor: Is there a second to that motion? Mr. Beard: I’ll second it. Mr. Mayor: There’s a second to that motion. Mr. Bridges. Mr. Bridges: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, I’m like Commissioner Cheek, it’s been almost five years now since we’ve had a quarterly insert that told the public what we were doing with our SPLOST money, how it’s spending, where it’s going, how much is left, what projects are to be done, and this type of thing. And the people seem to appreciate that insert when they got it. And you know, I think we’ve waited long enough. We put in money in the budget to do this project. I think we need to move ahead with it. I think we need to be pro-active with it and I think we need to give the public some explanation on a regular basis and hopefully on a quarterly basis of what, what their government is doing. And I think this, this program here would do it and I hope the Commission will support approval of the item that’s on the agenda. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Bridges. Mr. Shepard. Mr. Shepard: Mr. Mayor, if this is going to promote the SPLOST, couldn’t it be a SPLOST expense? I mean instead of a General -- Mr. Wall: You can’t do that. Mr. Shepard: That’s right. 49 Mr. Mayor: Can you promote a SPLOST that you’re already in, not promote a new one, but to -- Mr. Wall: [inaudible] Mr. Shepard: But see, Jim, I thought we could use SPLOST when the employees are directly related to SPLOST projects, the term has been [inaudible] SPLOST process? Mr. Wall: Well, yes, you can charge to the SPLOST project the personnel that are directly working with the SPLOST project, such as the engineers and inspectors and things of that nature. But to -- basically here you’d be paying an individual to report on SPLOST and to promote SPLOST in a way. Maybe not promote. I mean promote will get us in trouble, but even the reporting of it, that’s not adding to the project. That’s a PR function. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Kuhlke, you have your hand up. Mr. Kuhlke: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor, I’d just like to say this. We have -- Ms. Seigler’s got an awful lot of talent, but the $50,000 that would be appropriated in the budget was to get expertise in trying to put some things out that we’ve done professionally. She doesn’t have the time, she doesn’t have the staff to do that. She can certainly direct. Anything that I’ve ever been involved in, if you go to the CVB, they’ve got the staff, but when they put out brochures and things of that nature, they don’t do that in-house. They go outside and have it done. So to me, it’s something -- I support Mr. Cheek and Mr. Bridges. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor, I need a little clarification. I agree with Mr. Kuhlke, I mean just because we been doing it for 20 years, we could be doing it for 20 years wrong. I’m not saying that, you know, all I like to do it just pick my option, I mean I like to have more than one. Was it not mentioned that the Board of Education was going to be some contributing to something? Mr. Mayor: No, not this. Mr. Williams: Okay. Mr. Kolb: That’s on something else. Mr. Kuhlke: Call the question, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: The question has been called. The Chair will rule there has been adequate discussion of this. We’ll vote first on the substitute motion from Mr. Williams which is to hold this for 30 days. All in favor of the substitute motion, please vote in the affirmative. 50 (Vote on substitute motion) Mr. Bridges, Mr. Boyles, Mr. Kuhlke and Mr. Cheek vote No. Mr. Colclough abstains. Mr. Mays out. Motion fails 4-4-1. Mr. Mayor: That takes us back to the original motion. All in favor of the original motion to approve the agenda item, please vote aye. (Vote on original motion) Mr. Shepard votes No. Mr. Williams abstains. Mr. Mays out. Motion carries 7-1-1. Mr. Mayor: That us to item number 53. 53. Consider request for an appropriation from Commission Promotional Account to reorder Office of the Mayor lapel pins from The Pine Center in the amount of $2,148.00. Mr. Beard: Mr. Mayor, I just pulled this for clarification. I saw the Commission promotional pins, promotional account, and this may have been explained in Finance, and if so, somebody could help me out. Why is it coming from Commission Promotional Account? Are these pins are going to be used [inaudible]? Mr. Mayor: These are Office of the Mayor pins and this is the account, Mr. Beard, that we’ve traditionally paid for them, just like we do the framed proclamations and so forth. That’s what we’ve traditionally done. Mr. Beard: Okay. Just for clarification. Mr. Shepard: I move approval. Mr. Bridges: Second. Mr. Mayor: Any discussion? Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor, we talked about it in Finance and my question was to [inaudible] Commission Promotional Account. The Mayor explained that it is the account we been buying not just the Mayor’s pin but the Commissioners pins [inaudible] other stuff. I think what threw everything off was it saying Commission Promotional Account. Mr. Mayor, you said that is the normal title for this account, though? 51 Mr. Mayor: This is the account we have traditionally used to buy these pins, proclamation frames, those kinds of things, and we buys keys to the city, the cufflinks we get, things like that we buy out of the Mayor’s Office Account. The more expensive items. Mr. Williams: Well, and the reason I wanted to get some clarification is because I asked Ms. Bonner about something and she had to get it out of another account, her account or something and I wanted to make sure that we use the same account every time now. I ain’t got no problem with it. We talked about it in Finance. Just want to make sure that the same name is on the same account when we need other stuff. Mr. Mayor: This is an account, Mr. Williams, I think it’s budgeted what, $25,000 this year, I think that’s the number. The Clerk: Yes. Mr. Mayor: That’s been the number since I’ve been here and that’s the account we buy these promotional items out of. Traditionally that’s what we’ve done. We have a motion. All in favor of the motion, please vote aye. Mr. Mays out. Motion carries 9-0. Mr. Mayor: The Chair has a brief announcement and then we’ll take a recess. Mr. Kuhlke and I are going to have to leave the meeting to catch a flight in about 45 minutes out of Augusta Regional. We’re going to Washington, D.C. to meet with the Veterans Administration in the morning concerning the future of our VA Hospital and we’re also having some meetings over at EPA on containment and brown fields. So we will be leaving at this time and we’ll take a recess and the Mayor Pro Tem will reconvene the meeting. [RECESS] Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Where are we at, Madame Clerk? The Clerk: Okay, we’re at item 57. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: 56. The Clerk: 56. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Read the caption, please. The Clerk: 56. Report from the Administrator/Tax Assessor regarding the tax digest. 52 Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: All right, Sonny. Mr. Reece: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, members of the Commission, regarding the 2003 tax digest, the Tax Commissioner’s Office and my office have been working on numbers. We are within about half a percent from each other of being able to balance with each other, so we hope to be able to give you numbers at the end of this week, first of next week at the latest. The preliminary numbers have been showing about a steady to a slight decline in the digest. Got a little problem with that. At the [inaudible] John Milledge arithmetic and we’re going back to our [inaudible] system and asking the GAP group which supports us on that to check the [inaudible] again to see if the numbers being produced are actually accurate. The Board approved our assessment change notices at a called meeting last week. They hit the mail yesterday afternoon. Counting those, all those as appeals compared, in conjunction with the 1337 appeals from 2002 that need to be worked and the returns that have been filed by citizens we have not worked so far this year 2003, the total dollar amount is within the three percent of our gross digest, which allows us to submit. We hope to be able to give you the numbers the first part of next week, if not the end of the next week, and the [inaudible] process can start. The digest is on schedule to be delivered to Atlanta on or before September 1. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Gentlemen? Questions? Mr. Hankerson. Mr. Hankerson: You spoke about the appeals, Mr. Reece. Mr. Reece: Yes, sir. Mr. Hankerson: How many appeals is pending at this time? Mr. Reece: 1337. Mr. Hankerson: 1337? Mr. Reece: Yes, sir. Mr. Hankerson: Are they put on hold at this present time or what is happening with the appeals process while you’re doing the tax digest? Mr. Reece: The appeals were put on hold. The Tax Commission sent tax bills out at 85% of the appeal value. We did that in April of this year. So all property owners have received tax bills. Mr. Hankerson: Those 1337 you’re speaking of? Mr. Reece: Yes, sir. Those are the remainder that we had not worked, and the Tax Commissioner sent bills out for those based on 85% of our proposed value or the taxpayer’s value, whichever was greater. 53 Mr. Hankerson: When was those sent out? Mr. Reece: The end of March, first of April. Mr. Hankerson: So do you know how, of those that, the 1337 that was sent out, how many of those have responded, how many we have left? Mr. Reece: It’s my understanding -- it may have been May, then. May. My thth understanding July 28, maybe, July 28 was the 60 days period for those bills to become due. th Mr. Hankerson: July 28 for the 1377 sent out? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: [inaudible] Mr. Reece: You’ve got an escrow account, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: [inaudible] Mr. Reece: All right, sir. I’m sorry, Mr. Hankerson. Mr. Hankerson: The 1337 that was sent out as of July, they should have responded by July, did you say? thth Mr. Reece: By July 28 or 26, somewhere in that nature, they should have -- the th 25, they should have paid by that date. I’m not sure when the Tax Commissioner put the date on it. I didn’t receive one of those. Mr. Hankerson: So in reality then we don’t know how many still is due, I mean -- Mr. Reece: All of the tax bills are due. There are none outstanding. There are none that are not due. Mr. Hankerson: I’m speaking of the 1337. Mr. Reece: The 1337 -- Mr. Hankerson: The 1337 was for appeals, and you said that they was sent a notice to pay 85% of those appeals, I mean of that amount. Mr. Reece: Or of their previous year’s value, whichever was greater. Mr. Hankerson: Right. So -- 54 Mr. Reece: Out of those 1337, I believe the Tax Commissioner sent 842 bills. Because people had paid their taxes. The difference [inaudible] 2002. Mr. Hankerson: And that’s 800 of the 1337 had already, the difference had already been paid? Mr. Reece: Yes, sir. They had already paid based on the previous year’s value. Mr. Hankerson: So at our next Finance Committee meeting, could you bring us a written report on how many that have not paid at this time of that 1337? Mr. Reece: I will ask the Tax Commission to furnish me that information for you. Mr. Hankerson: Thank you. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Anything else, Mr. Hankerson? Mr. Hankerson: That’s fine. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Gentlemen? Commissioner Shepard? Mr. Shepard: Mr. Reece, for purposes of planning in the fall, we usually have, we always have to have the digest approved, and I think we had a tight scenario last year, I think date wise we got the bills out in a legal fashion, but it was right at the end of the year as I recall. Mr. Reece: Yes, sir. Mr. Shepard: So it fell within 2002. I may be redundant, but we’ll have to go through that same process of digest approval this year, we have to every year as I understand it. Mr. Reece: That’s correct, sir. Mr. Shepard: Okay, so what -- do we anticipate that schedule to be more normal this year than last or last year’s schedule will be about where we are? Do we have any anticipation of that yet? Mr. Reece: Yes, Mr. Shepard. I may not have made myself clear, or you were out of the room. Mr. Shepard: Yes, I’m sorry, I was. It may be a redundant question. Mr. Reece: We have sent the notices out, sending those notices, the 1337 appeals that are still in place, that has to count against the number of appeals or dollar amount, against the digest. We are within 3% of that now. We hope to give y’all figures at the 55 end of this week or the first of next week. The Tax Commissioner and I are still reconciling our differences and our consolidation sheets. We are within about half a percent and we will be bringing those numbers to you and also taking them to the Board of Education, where you can start your advertisement process. Next week, the end of ththth next week will be the 15, so if we get it to you the 11 or the 12, you’ll have enough time to review it and make the advertisement for the two week period. That would be say thth the 17, the 24, [inaudible] those two weeks. And we would still be able to get the digest delivered to Atlanta on or before September 1. Mr. Shepard: That would be earlier than last year, would it not? Mr. Reece: Yes, sir. Last year when we took it up, I think it was approved someone in the end of October. The Tax Commissioner sent the bills out October 26, I believe. So the bills could conceivably go out the mid to latter part of September. Mr. Shepard: And then there is a 30 day for 1% discount from the billing date? Mr. Reece: Correct. 60 days from the billing date to pay. Mr. Shepard: So that’s going to fall sometime in November. Mr. Reece: November. Mr. Shepard: About a month earlier, best case scenario? Mr. Reece: Yes, sir. Mr. Shepard: Thank you for that. Mr. Reece: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Any further discussion? We have a motion? Mr. Bridges: A motion to receive it as information. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Motion and second on the floor. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion, please vote by signifying by the sign of voting. Mr. Beard and Mr. Kuhlke out. Motion carries 8-0. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Now we’ll go to item 57. The Clerk: 56 PETITIONS & COMMUNICATIONS: 57. Consider approval of Main Street Augusta’s guidelines for First Friday as rewritten with input from the City Attorney. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Who is that, you, Jim? Mr. Wall: Mr. Naylor is going to take it. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Naylor? Mr. Naylor: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem and Commissioners, we come back today with guidelines for First Friday. I have met with the City Attorney, we’ve gone over and rewritten those and request that you approve these or give these your stamp of approval for the First Friday process. I will tell you, as we’ve been given the opportunity, with input from merchants, from retailers, from artists, to jewelry shops, to restaurants for over a year-and-a-half. So we’ve had input from most of the major merchants downtown, the key players and businesses that do work with the First Friday process and who sat on the committee and we do have, Main Street does have a First Friday Committee specifically dedicated to the First Friday program. Carliss Gay, who is back behind me here, is the owner of Cloud Nine. He’s a volunteer and has put in a tremendous amount of time on these guidelines. What we’re requesting is the Commission’s stamp of approval to say these are the guidelines that will be followed for First Friday. This gives us some organization. It takes some of the chaos that we had over the past few years during First Friday with vendors, with bands, and with organizations and gives us some organization, and we really need that. I know that Commissioner Williams and Commissioner Cheek were down this past First Friday. I consider the First Friday event from 5 to 10 a prototype of what we’re looking for. A lot of folks on the street, a lot of families coming down, enjoying themselves. We have vendors down there. We had a couple of first-time vendors who said they want to come back. So First Friday was a very successful event this past one, and we want to continue that and we feel these guidelines will help us to continue that event atmosphere that we have. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Commissioner Cheek, Commissioner Williams, Commissioner Shepard. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, I’m going to go ahead and make a motion that we approve. I just wanted to make a couple of comments. One, First Friday is back and it’s fun. Secondly, once we complete and hopefully approve this today, there are some issues with the after midnight crowd and people continuing to consume beverages out of the trunks of their cars that we are going to have to address. Those, those are the folks that are not frequenting, generally frequenting First Friday and participating in the fun there, using Broad Street as a party locale and are potential trouble spots for the future. We don’t want to repeat the problems we had in the past. So I would ask that we consider that at some point in the near future, dealing with that. But we’ve come a long way. We’ve recovered from some problems. The businesses down there contributed to 57 this effort. If you haven’t been down to Cloud Nine and seen the type of new entrepreneurs we have on Broad Street, Carliss is making products, cosmetic products and lotions and stuff in his shop there on Broad Street that are as good as anything you can buy in a store and probably better. But these are places that we should all go look and see. They have contributed to this plan. We should support it and I just urge approval, and with that I just make a motion to approve. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Motion on the floor. Mr. Bridges: Second. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Second on the floor. Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. I want to say to Chris and all those that work on this, on these guidelines, I appreciate all you’ve done. But I’m still not satisfied myself. There is some, and I guess you can’t ever get all the answers. There is some problems, and I was done, Chris, on this First Friday and last First Friday. There is some things that we need to work on. I called Rob Sherman and talked with him about some, some things that I saw and he said that people need to get with you cause they wasn’t handling that. People don’t know yet who to deal with. We, Commissioner Shepard said, I think, when you brought this first group of guidelines to us that we need to look at them, we need to look at them more before we turn them loose. And I still agree with that. There are some things that I’m not quite satisfied with yet. And after going down and walking around and talking to some of the vendors, talking to some of the people, Commissioner Cheek mentioned about people going in their trunk after 10 o’clock. If you going to have First Friday, first of all, in my mind you can’t designate the time people stop it. First Friday is a day. You can’t say, well, you’ve got First Friday from 6 to 10 and then after 10 o’clock you’ve got to go home. I mean that’s, that’s, that’s not reasonable, you know, to tell a grown adult that you downtown, we got First Friday. First Friday is going grow even more. Now maybe there’s a lot of vendors don’t want to stay until late or maybe some of the businesses want to close early. But if you going to have First Friday, I can see you saying well, it’s Saturday morning then it ain’t First Friday. But you can’t -- I mean it’s unreasonable in my mind to tell people well, 10 o’clock, stop First Friday and you go back. You serve the alcoholic beverages, people can walk around and enjoy the downtown area, but then at 10 o’clock, I mean if they don’t stay and go in their trunks, they going to go over to Reynolds Street, they going to go somewhere else. That’s one thing we need to look at right there. If you going to have an event like First Friday, when vendors come, when people come, they want to enjoy it. That’s their night out. I mean it’s good wholesome fun. I had people to ask me about putting on other events and I called Rob Sherman and he directed me to you to talk to these people to see about where they going to go and where can they set up. There’s a particular instance where one of the young men came from I think from New Orleans or somewhere and he had three licenses. He couldn’t set up on the street, he couldn’t put it on the sidewalk. I talked with Rob Sherman about that. And Rob said well, no, he can’t put it in the street, just on the side street. I said Rob, if you put something on the sidewalk then the pedestrians got to get in the street. Either we going let, if you going to 58 have a First Friday and there is people going to be there for that period of time, not every day, but that period of time, so there are some things we need to talk about, we need to go over, we need to get plain and so it be uniform, it be for everybody. Some of these vendors like the man we approved, Jim, the got that got the hot dog stand that drives thth along, he’s got the right to go from 5 Street to 15 Street on Broad, I think, from Reynolds all the way over to Walton Way. When he came in to this committee we gave him that authority. He was on the sidewalk. He had no problem, he didn’t block anything, but he was on the sidewalk at the old J.B. White’s building. And if somebody else sets up there beside him, and then they block it, then what do we do? He gets in the street and he has the right. He came down and we passed the, we gave him authority to be a moving type concession stand where he can free-wheel. He can move from one point to another. So if he wants to stop in a clear zone, not in front of traffic, but if he wants to stop in an area, he still can do his business. So what about the next man, then? You just said in here, I think it’s item number [inaudible] no food vendors. No food vendors shall set up on the city right-of-way without permission from the City or MSA. I guess that’s what? Mr. Naylor: Main Street Augusta. Mr. Williams: Main Street Augusta. So if the City says or Main Street Augusta says and the City says Main Street Augusta don’t say, then what do we do? [inaudible] City said we could, Main Street Augusta said we can’t. Then [inaudible] First Friday, I need to set up. I mean I ain’t got some and Commissioner Shepard gone home so I can’t call him. I need to know what I’m going to say if I done bought my license. There is some more things we need to work out Chris. I think y’all done a good job. I just think we need to look at this again. Now I said the same thing [inaudible] we talked about the Commission decided to go ahead and voted it in anyway. But there is some things that we need to discuss. There is some things we need to get worked out. This is a brand new animal here that we have created. We almost lost it when the [inaudible] got into an uproar and broke those windows and we did some stuff that in my mind kind of put a damper on it. But it’s coming back. And we got other people that want to come now. Cause they see the potential. But you can’t tell them to go home at 10 o’clock and [inaudible] shut down at 10 o’clock and anything you do after that, it ain’t First Friday. So I’m going to make a substitute motion that we look at these again and we come back and meet with Chris and if we got anything we need to kind of get worked out, that we, you know, I don’t have any problem with what I saw [inaudible] but I still think we need to sit down and talk so we can communicate with each other and find out those pros and those cons and that you won’t have no problem, you will be able to give some direct and definitive answers to people when they come. People been waiting to see was it going to come back, was it going grow, can I be down there, where can I set up, who says so? I had four or five people to ask me about, even groups that want to sing. And I said I can’t give you the answer. But I mean I can talk to somebody who can. There are religious groups that want to come and sing. There have been several of those down there. It’s a good family-oriented type situation and we need to keep it like that. But we need to also let those people know that a group go down and just set up somewhere and you, you know, you say wait, this is not the place, nobody told you 59 to set up here. There just some things we need to talk about, Chris, before we seal this thing. That’s all I’m saying. Mr. Gay: What specifically -- Mr. Naylor: This is Carliss Gay. Mr. Gay: Could I have permission to address Council, please? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Go ahead. Mr. Gay: I’m Chairman of First Friday and have been to every meeting that’s been held regarding First Friday for the last year-and-a-half. We’ve worked very hard on the guidelines that we’ve got here now, and believe me, nothing you’re saying hasn’t been discussed among all of the people affected by it. And what I’m asking is what specifically is your problem with the guidelines as we have them? First of all, you have to have an end to it. We have insurance on the event, and we have to have a definite time for the event to end, and 10 o’clock is a reasonable time because this is put on and maintained by the merchants. We got to go home. Mr. Williams: And I understand that. And if any merchant wants to close, but if a merchant wants to close, then that constituent ought to have the right to go next door, down the street or wherever he wants to go. I’m not saying that we should demand that the merchants stay there and do anything. And what you brought up is another good point. That’s why we need to talk. Mr. Gay: And we’re not saying that everybody has to go home at 10 o’clock. We’re just saying that the vendors have to shut down at 10 o’clock. That’s all that that says. Mr. Williams: Well, and, and, and, and, and that sounds good, but if a vendor do not want to shut down at 10 o’clock, you telling me if I’m a vendor and you close at 10, I’ve got to close at 10 as well. Mr. Gay: No, sir, what I’m telling you is that Main Street Augusta and the First Friday Committee will no longer be responsible and no longer be standing behind what you’re doing. If you stay out there past 10 o’clock, then I would assume at that point that you are subject to the laws of the city, but you will not be a part of the First Friday event because the First Friday event does have a definite time that it ends, and that’s 10 p.m. Mr. Williams: Well, either with within that 10 p.m. or not, you still subject to the laws, I want to get that clear. Mr. Gay: Yes, sir. Mr. Williams: I mean subject to the laws anyway. 60 Mr. Gay: Right. Mr. Williams: And, and, and, and the reason I said we need to talk, just from what you’re saying now, that if a vendor wants to stay, if he can make money, if he can stay there and not going to cause problems to the City and not going to break any City rules, he’s not selling alcohol or something he shouldn’t be selling, he’s doing what he’s been doing in the early part of First Friday, the event is still going, people are there, so if people are still there and he wants to stay there or she wants to stay there, then because First Friday, the Main Street wants to go in, think it time to go in, we can’t put people in a box. This city would never grow if we keep doing the same thing we been doing. And that’s dictating to people what time they going to do what. We need to give people choices. If you break the law, we got probably more sheriffs in Richmond County than any county you ever go in. They be arrested. But as long as they not breaking the law, then we need to continue to let people enjoy this city. Not telling them we go in at 10 o’clock and you got to go in, too. So that’s why we need the communication, why we need to talk, and why I’ve got some issue with some things. From just what you just said. If First Friday say you can’t set up there or Main Street say you can’t set up there, somebody from the City or the Commission say well, yeah, you can, they didn’t tell us -- I mean, we don’t need to rush. Commissioner Shepard said this earlier when [inaudible] this list in. We can’t turn y’all loose with this. Mr. Gay: Well, what scares us merchants downtown is that we’re going to have another September or October. We saw things getting out of hand in July last year. We started having regular meetings between the merchants to try to stop these problems before they happened. We finally, over the last year, have come up with these guidelines and we’ve implemented them with the start of the warmer months this year. Actually, after October last year, we’ve been implementing these guidelines. This is pretty much what we’ve been telling the vendors, what we’ve been telling the press, and everything has been going terrific. All that we’re asking is that you give it your stamp of approval and that we can say that these are the guidelines. But we need -- you say that there’s no need to rush into it. I say you’re wrong. There is definite need to rush into this. Mr. Williams: Well -- Mr. Gay: We need these guidelines so that we don’t have another October. If you need to study First Friday, go back and read the newspapers from last July, August, September and October. Mr. Williams: Anything that can happen will happen. I mean I’m not a businessman [inaudible] not into that. I know that what happened at First Friday in the beginning with those kids, I guess Main Street almost ruined it. Whoever decided. I won’t say Main Street cause the Sheriff’s Department was there. I went to the meeting downtown. We put state patrol, we put school marshals, we put deputy, we put regular marshals on every corner. I don’t drink, never drink, never even smoked. But who would drink a beer, who would come to First Friday when an officer on every corner? I 61 mean really to me, and it’s just my little thinking, that’s why I’m [inaudible], that almost, that was detrimental almost to First Friday. Mr. Gay: I agree. Mr. Williams: Okay. So all I’m saying is if a man, as many officers as we got and as much law and order in this town, if a person breaks the law even with those [inaudible] and I’ve told the Sheriff, I’ve told Ronnie Strength, if he had a business parked in the back and they arrested every one of them and when they got it filled, carry them to jail, but they almost -- we wanted the growth. But when the growth come, we can’t handle it. Now if you’re afraid of being in that kind of business, then I suggest you need to find another avenue to get in. But those kind of things are things that would happen, not because [inaudible] I mean those kind of things would just happen anyway if you get, if you mix too much alcohol with the wrong person. All I’m saying is I want to see the First Friday be a success. I don’t want to see -- who is going to come from out of town to First Friday and it ends at 10 o’clock? Mr. Gay: I can go back and pull the records and show you -- Mr. Williams: Well, I’m sure you can. But I mean, all I’m saying is that if we going to support having a, a event like this, and you look at any other city in the world that’s got a event like this, they don’t, we don’t put a lid on it. We don’t try to smother it. I’m not saying it ought to last all night. I’m just saying that we ought not to tell people well, 10 o’clock, the First Friday is over and you need to go. Mr. Gay: Okay, well, I’ll just ask this then. Those of you who vote to not make a decision on this tonight, I will invite you to a meeting, I’ll call a meeting, I’m going to watch your lights, I’ll know who to call. I’m going to invite every one of you to the next called meeting of the merchants for First Friday who worked so hard on these guidelines and we will explain it to you, hopefully so that you can clearly understand it. And then I would ask that you be able to make a decision at the next meeting. That’s all we’re asking for, is someone to make a decision. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Okay. Mr. Shepard. Mr. Shepard: Thank you very much. I’m going to second Mr. Williams’ motion, so I guess that invites us both to a meeting. There’s not going to be another First Friday before we have another Commission meeting, and I’m going to be real pointed in a question to you in just a minute, because I see some vendors really not falling into any of the categories that you have outlined here, and -- for example, when something is, a piece of property is sold, I may see it as a piece of junk. You may see it as an antique. But obviously, the combination -- and let me preface my remarks that I’ve been coming to First Friday before First Friday was cool. You know, that’s how much of a supporter, to borrow a Ted Turner expression, I’ve been there, done that, and we have enjoyed it very much. But with the first two categories under 3, it says all items being sold will be handcrafted. And B says no resale items will be allowed. If I’m an antique merchant in 62 Broad Street, and I’d appreciate what y’all’s interpretation of this is, Carliss, can I sell used merchandise on Broad Street? Mr. Naylor: If you are an owner or operator. If you look at number two, the -- if a business owner comes to us and says we want to pull some of our items out on the sidewalk to sell during First Friday, that’s absolutely perfect with us. They are down there 365 days a year, they have first right of refusal of anyone who comes out. That’s one of the guidelines I established when I came in, and then we sat down and started establishing all of these. A business owner on Broad or any of the cross streets has the right to pull merchandise out of their business and put it on the streets for sale, because they are there 365 days a year. They do pay a business license. But many of them choose not to, and we then have to request from them or get permission to set up specific vendors in front of their businesses. Why? One reason we don’t have resale items, we have jewelers downtown that are trying to make a living, and on First Friday we have people coming in who are purchasing items at a wholesaler and then coming down a re- selling them within half a block of people who are trying to thrive 365 days a year. The folks that we talk with, the folks on this felt that this was a reasonable thing to do, is to be able to protect those businesses down here. And that’s what we are going to have to do. If we’re don’t protect them, we will lose them and [inaudible]. Mr. Shepard: Absolutely. And that’s what I’m trying to establish. Mr. Naylor: Yes. Mr. Shepard: If a merchant on one of the cross streets -- Mr. Naylor: They could bring their clothes out or merchandise or antiques or clocks of cards or whatever. They have the first right to use their space. Mr. Shepard: And what text do I look for in this guideline? Mr. Naylor: We can add that. Mr. Shepard: Okay. Mr. Naylor: But it’s actually that all business operators and property owners must give written permission to place vendors. And we consider anyone on the sidewalk a vendor, even if the business owner is going to be a vendor on the sidewalk. Mr. Shepard: I’m just saying that what I -- and I’m not trying to be difficult -- Mr. Naylor: You want the guidelines clearly defined. Mr. Shepard: I don’t want to support folks outside the central business district. I’ve been in the central business district for 27 years and it’s my profession. Okay? 63 Mr. Naylor: Yes, sir. Mr. Shepard: So to say I’m not a downtown booster -- Mr. Naylor: Oh, you are. Mr. Shepard: One of the [inaudible] to answer that. But what I would like to see is the local folks who have committed their savings and a lot of their mortgages, these thth businesses to bring back the storefronts on 8 and 7 and the numbered streets that are not Broad Street frontage, I want to see something in here that will permit that activity, so that we don’t guess. And that’s my specific request. Mr. Naylor: We will be more than happy to put that in here. Mr. Shepard: That’s what I’m -- Mr. Naylor: We will be more than happy to put that in here. Mr. Shepard: Supporting those folks who have a location, who have a business or occupation tax, whatever they have, that’s who I want to see part of your mix. Mr. Naylor: We’ll make that number two. Not a problem. Mr. Shepard: And that’s what I’d like to see between now and the next meeting. Mr. Naylor: We’ll do that. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Commissioner Colclough. This has been a very long, long process in some respects, when we started fighting for this well over a year ago, to establish this type of board. It’s the first time in history that we’ve had business owners from all over downtown working together for the common good. They are paying for their extra police protection up to a certain hour. They are required to have event insurance that terminates at a certain time. We have problems, not with the people frequenting First Friday or even those staying after to frequent the establishments as much as we do people loitering on Broad Street who haven’t frequented anything, and those are the people that tend to stay after midnight and cause problems. Yes, this document is not perfect. This book is not perfect. We are not perfect. This is a good starting point. These meetings have been open, and any time I’ve been down to work with or discuss things with the business owners, they’ve been completely open to my suggestions or comments. We could have been involved in this process before now. We can still be involved in it after now. The thing that we need to do is -- again, these people work very hard. They’re very low tolerant of the perception of the way we do business as a Commission of delaying, deferring, finding reasons not to pass or do things in the better interest of the community. We’ll begin losing participants because they will see this as a 64 frivolous activity with no real meaning. We need to support the business owners that are in this area who are in the trenches, who are making the difference downtown. Augusta, downtown Augusta is finally coming back to life, after years and years of corporate government welfare, if you will, of us throwing money after money to try to re-invigorate that area. It’s happening now. It’s on the backs of the people that are here, represented before us today. Yes, there are things that need to be improved. Yes, we want the festival to eventually stretch from Greene Street to the river, from Gordon Highway to th 13 Street. We want this to be the Southeastern attraction every First Friday of every month for people to come from all over the area. But this is a starting point. I remind everybody that our Constitution was so many layers of legislation, it’s been amended and adjusted over time. This, if you will, is a constitution, an operating agreement, a set of rights and operating rules for the businesses and those that attend First Friday. It is not perfect. It will be amended [inaudible] come back with some amendments. We can send it away with our suggestions and ask them to come back to us with those amendments to the ordinance. But the bottom line is we need to follow up on what we started, no continue to delay this. They’ve come back before us a couple of times with some adjustments. We’ve sent them back a couple of times with some adjustments. I don’t want us to lose the growing enthusiasm we have in the First Friday program and on this board. We need to support it. We need to support it today by passing this, with the knowledge that between us and Main Street and the First Friday Committee that we expect this to be a document, a living document that changes and improves over time. And I think that’s the intent of it. It’s not in stone. This is not the Ten Commandments. It’s not written by the hand of God. It’s written by the hands of men and women who are making a difference downtown. We need to support that. I just, I mean we can continue to delay and defer. We all had the opportunity to participate in this process. If we haven’t to date, we have concerns and issues. We shouldn’t make them bear the brunt of it. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Bridges. Mr. Bridges: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. I support the passing this, these bylaws today. If the people that are in area that are affected have come together and have come up with an agreement that they can all agree on, and what I’m hearing, they have, they have met continually for some period of time now, and they’re in support of this, I think we should show our support for them and pass that today. And as Commissioner Cheek says, we can come back later and amend this thing, if there are some areas that we have real heartburn with, or as we apply these ordinances, if we see they need adjusting we can come back and do that. But give them the base document to work with, and I think it’s important that we go ahead and support them in this matter, so I’m going to support the original motion. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Hankerson and then Mr. Williams. Mr. Hankerson: I’m a little bit confused on a couple of things here. I have a problem with just trying to discuss this and ask all these questions in this particular meeting. I was wondering why it didn’t come to us in committee meetings that we could 65 really sit down and make the [inaudible] and then it would approved in this meeting. I’m not against First Friday nor what those that have worked hard are doing. But I really got confused, Chris, when Steve asked you about the resale items. I got a different perspective of what it’s all about and I’m not quite sure. You’re saying resale items that - - I was thinking that was used items, I guess I was only thinking about clothes [inaudible] and you said something about somebody coming down selling jewelry. Am I hearing you say that another, if a vendor came in selling some of the same items that some of the merchants on Broad Street are selling, that they wouldn’t be permitted to sell that? I was kind of confused on that. Mr. Naylor: That is the point, correct. Yes, sir, we are saying that. Mr. Hankerson: Okay. Mr. Naylor: They are reselling items that they purchased at wholesale, and the committee felt that that was not within the guidelines of downtown and dealing with, working with the downtown businesses. We do have jewelry stores downtown and it would be in direct competition. We are looking for unique, interesting items. To give you an example, this past First Friday we had a gentleman come from South Carolina and he sold handmade puppets made out of yarn. Marionettes, per se. He sold out at 20 minutes to ten. Every kid on the sidewalk had one. And that’s what we’re looking for. We’re not looking for people to come down -- we have businesses from outlying areas that want to come in and sell. And we’re trying to, we are trying to somewhat protect our merchants downtown and their businesses, because if somebody is coming in and selling like items or similar items as, let’s say, A Silver Lining, then the reason for First Friday, and the original reason was to bring people back downtown to come in and to shop in the new niche shops that we have. If we allow somebody else to come down and take business away from them, and many are not paying sales tax, many don’t have business licenses because we did not put that in the [inaudible], then we’re losing the business for our downtown people. And we’re trying to make it as lenient as we can, but yet not hurt our businesses downtown. Mr. Hankerson: Chris, by all honesty, the more you say some things, the more I need to learn about it. When you said the business license, I was thinking of -- and I don’t want to take up all the time, I think it would be the best thing to do is bring it back to committee. Because we’ve been here a long time already. Cause the more you talk, the more -- I’m getting a little more confused because I was thinking as an exhibitor, you know, previously I used to be an exhibitor and I thought any exhibitor, as long as they had a license, they could come down and set up, but I’m not hearing this. Those stores are open. For instance, if you had someone was selling neckties. Well, you have stores down there that sell neckties, it sound like they would be prohibited from doing that. Mr. Naylor: If they were hand painted neckties, they could sell them all they want. 66 Mr. Hankerson: It would have to be something unique for them to come downtown? Mr. Naylor: Correct. Mr. Hankerson: See, that’s the, I didn’t understand all of that and I think -- I don’t have a problem of passing the guidelines. I know you need guidelines. I support that but I think that rather to come back in a meeting [inaudible] come [inaudible] I got enough understanding from you two guys, but I think we need to discuss is here in committee and go ahead and then send it forward to the full Commission. We’re discussing it here now, which I thought this should have been brought back to committee, that I could ask all these questions. Cause I have a problem with 6 also on here, and I just don’t want to go into all that at this time. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Williams and then Mr. Boyles. Mr. Williams: I’m going to ask Chris another question. Chris, and you talk about the merchant, this guy [inaudible] you talking about free enterprise, you talking about people coming in and setting up, especially street vendors, you talking about street vendors, I mean these are people who going to be going to the wholesale places and buying and coming back and trying to sell and trying to do a business. If a jewelry store downtown and a man walks up with other jewelry, he’s not, I’m thinking in my mind, have the same type or quality jewelry that a jewelry store would have. He may have some gold plated rings but rather than a gold ring. That’s why I wanted to talk about it. Where does these retail people set up when they come in as a vendor? For instance, if they was selling food, Main Street say where they set up at? Mr. Naylor: If it’s a retailer that’s already on Broad Street? Mr. Williams: Yes. Mr. Naylor: Let’s say for example, Raging Bull, which is a hot dog stand across from the Common in the 800 block, he sets up in front of his business. Sells hot dogs off the stand. Mr. Williams: I’m talking about if another food vendor comes in. Mr. Naylor: Another food vendor? Mr. Williams: And he is selling the same, similar stuff. I mean there ain’t but so much you going to be able to sell, whether it’s food, clothes, whatever. Mr. Naylor: We tend to keep them somewhat separated so that they are in a different district. We’ve not had that problem with food vendors. 67 Mr. Williams: Okay, but as it grows, you talking about reselling. When you buy tee shirts at a bulk rate and you want to sell First Friday tee shirts. I don’t think I’ve seen any. I’m just thinking. If somebody came down and there’s a shop across the street or down the street that sells tee shirts, you going to tell that vendor, you know, that’s done did everything else, that he can’t sell because it’s a -- Mr. Naylor: At this point in time, yes. Mr. Williams: Okay. And that’s why I got a problem. I got a problem with what we got structured. I know you say we invited to come. I don’t know about the rest of these Commissioners but my plate is truly full. And I mean I address every issue I can and sometimes I address issues I probably should address. But I don’t have time to go and sit at every meeting like y’all been doing. I mean I expect y’all to do that. But y’all ought to be willing to let us talk about this thing. I mean I’m not trying to hold up the project. I’m not trying to say you’re wrong. I mean, but, hey, this is a serious event that we putting on. Then before I put my stamp on it or before I put [inaudible] on it, I’ve got to be satisfied within myself. Mr. Naylor: I understand what you’re saying Commissioner. Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, I don’t have anything else. I mean, call for the question. Mr. Gay: [inaudible] Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Address the Chair. Mr. Gay: May I clarify a couple of points, please? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Yes, sir. Mr. Gay: Thank you. We, I have on many occasions and still do let in resellers. The puppet salesman was a perfect example. That man was not making all those puppets, but he’s not competing with anyone in front of their store. I also have allowed, and always do, jewelry salespeople to set up. What we do is we carefully coordinate it so that they’re not set up in front of A Silver Lining or in front of another store that sells items like that. We have no problem with the vendors, you know, coming down and reselling that type of thing. But we’re trying to place them. All that we’re doing is making order out of the chaos. I went by today, as a matter of fact, with the City in mind, and picked up 300 copies of sales tax forms to give out to the vendors as they come in and fill out their applications and pick up their permits [inaudible] so that the City can get what is due to them and the State can get what’s due to it whenever these people sell things. And I will teach them how to fill them out. But we, you know, these -- First Friday is an event that is put on and maintained by the merchants downtown. This is, that is the group that started this, First Friday. And of course we’re looking out for our best interests, but we’re also looking out for the interest of the vendors. We realize as a group -- we had a 68 few argue it -- but everybody is convinced now that vendors are a good thing. Whenever a vendor is coming down, they tell everybody they know that they’re going to be setting up for First Friday, y’all come on down and join us. So I mean we’re particularly fond of the vendors, really. We are just trying to place them so that they’re not competing directly with a store by being right in front of their store. And thank you for mentioning that this is a living document. I would ask that if you will approve what we have before you today, that we will work in tremendous good faith to keep this a living document, and anything you request clarification on, we will give to you at the next meeting. And if you’re not satisfied that we worked as hard on that as we have over the last 18 months on the guidelines that we have today, then you can always just vote it out at that point in time. But we’re only trying to make order out of the chaos, and we would ask that you approve the document as we have it, as a living document, and anything you ask us to change or to clarify, we’ll be happy to come back to you at the next meeting and do that. Thank you. Mr. Williams: Call for the question, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: We’ve got one more Commissioner. Mr. Boyles. Mr. Boyles: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. I’m not going to add very much to it except that during my days as Recreation & Parks Director, we had arts and crafts fairs, and that’s basically what you have here, an arts and crafts fair. And we did those at Regency Mall, Augusta Mall, Southgate Plaza, Daniel Village, all those places. And of course, it was put on by the merchants and the Recreation Department kind of co- sponsored it, and we had the same type of vendor permits. They were not allowed to sell anything that was re-saleable. They were allowed to sell your handcrafted items, and that was the object of it. You just don’t go and sell a bottle of Dasanti water right beside the Coca-Cola people, it just wouldn’t make any sense. I think what I hear, Chris, is that there is some, there are so many questions among the Commission here that as Steve said, as Mr. Shepard said, we’ve got one more meeting before First Friday and it has been a long day for us. I kind of took up more time than I should have on the flooding problem. But maybe we ought to just take this back and look at it in committee Monday and then come back, and I’ll make that -- if there’s not a motion on the floor -- Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: I think there is. Mr. Boyles: Okay. So I think that might be best. We might all be better served, Carliss, if we just go ahead and do that. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: You want to respond? Mr. Naylor: If that’s the Commission’s wish, that’s fine. We will be more than happy to sit down in committee and go over it. We’ll have the Attorney there. We just would like to have these established by our next First Friday, is my only, my only concern. Representing the merchants and the Committee who put these together, I would like to make one comment to one of Mr. Williams’, Commissioner Williams’ remarks. 69 You’re talking about shutting down at 10 o’clock. Our guidelines are somewhat established along Greenville, South Carolina’s guidelines. And Greenville somewhat invented the wheel on doing events downtown. They are so superb at doing these. I spent hours on the phone, getting faxes. They close their events down at 10 o’clock or 11 o’clock at night, and the way they get people to go home -- I couldn’t believe it when the guy told me -- they have two gentlemen come in from Maintenance with leaf blowers and start blowing the trash off into the sidewalk. And everybody disperses quickly. So to give you an idea, that’s how another city does it. But I will, I have no problem, and I’m sure my committee would have no problem to going back to whichever proper committee this is we need to go to to sit down and discuss these guidelines. I have no problem with that at all. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Mays. Mr. Mays: Mr. Chairman, if I might get a [inaudible] move us [inaudible] I think what can probably satisfy -- I been here long enough that nobody counts and it’s eight folk here and I don’t think you’re going to get [inaudible]. I’ve got a couple of questions even though I think we could probably deal with it with amending it. But Steve [inaudible] motion that you and Marion have on the floor, maybe a, maybe an amendment that when it goes over to committee that at least the first draft of the rules could get out of the next Commission meeting, so that there would be some, and obviously you could go back and deal with further amendments to it. But that would at least get the first set of rules out. Because there are two or three questions, I think, that probably everybody may have just in the fine tuning process. And that still gives enough time to get it past committee. It gives at least a document that can be voted up or down at the next full Commission meeting. And then it gets a document in place that will be ready for the next First Friday. If that would kind of get us off this path of where we are right now. And that’s just a suggestion of an amendment to that, and that will get us out of here today and it will solve everybody’s problem [inaudible] but then again it keeps us alive and sets a time table for it. Mr. Williams: Mr. Mays, I thought it was still alive anyway. I didn’t think it was on the operating table. I thought that, you know, you saying that we need to a amendment, but I don’t understand the amendment. I mean -- Mr. Mays: What it is, you sending it back. What I’m trying to do in sending it back is to put a time frame to at least set one set of rules per se to be voted on by the Commission at the next Commission meeting. It will go through committee and then it will be ready [inaudible] as far as having some guidelines in there. Now when we vote it up or down, it may still pass [inaudible] but at least it will have something out there as some operating form. I think we need something, good, bad or indifferent, to be able to do. And then if it’s not working [inaudible] cause I mean I’ve got a couple of questions [inaudible] just some clarification questions [inaudible] committee, I can ask them then. But I’m just trying to get us to a date where we can go on and finish it, get some set of rules. If there is one set that doesn’t work, it will address the time issue, if a vendor’s out there and [inaudible] I used to club all the time, but even at 52 [inaudible] is that when 70 you put the vendors out, I think where the clarification comes in, they lose the umbrella protection of the First Friday [inaudible] but if I’m out there selling Philly cheese steaks, sausages, hot dogs, whatever, if it’s a jumping crowd that’s out there and somebody buying from me until midnight, if I want to [inaudible] and I think that’s where [inaudible] to a point [inaudible] stay under the [inaudible] license past 10 o’clock [inaudible] 10:01 and one a.m. [inaudible] start First Saturday. But I think those are things can be something you can work out real quickly and get done. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Just quickly, for clarification. It sounds to me like a committee, existing committee is not going to be structured with members, voting members that represent everybody that has questions. I guess, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, doesn’t this need to be a committee of the whole, or do we need a work session on it to resolve it, or is someone willing to extend, is someone willing to extend their committee meetings an hour or so longer than they already are to deal with this in the depth that it needs to be dealt with? I understand, and again, we’ve had over a year for us to express our concerns and issues. This has come to us in the Commission a couple of times. I understand concerns, I understand taking it back and ironing these things to make it as perfect as we can. But what committee are we going to delegate this to? That hasn’t been stated. When are we going to turn it around? I won’t get historical like Commissioner Mays, but before last year I came to you and told you we were going to have problems a month before they occurred. I got just as frustrated about it as I am right now because we didn’t do anything. And we had problems. I guess that makes me a prophet. I don’t know. But any event, we have got people that are working 14 hour, 16 hour days making these businesses work. They are putting their time in. Now to make this committee work [inaudible] something it’s a first of, one of the City of Augusta’s history, we are going to begin losing people if we jerk around with this thing and not get all of our answers. Questions out and answer put together. And that is going to be sad. That’s the other prophesy I’m making right now. If we drag this out for months, don’t come to terms with it, then we’re going to begin losing people. And then Augusta is going to -- we’re going to have haphazard events and problems just like we’ve had a history of in the past. So I just want to know which committee are we going to send this to and is that going to be a committee of the whole where everybody can hash out their things and bring it out? Mr. Williams: Don’t send it to Public Safety. Mr. Mays: Mr. Chairman. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Mays. Mr. Mays: Mr. Chairman, let me just say this. If I can get, if I can get three little words on this amendment, then we can go ahead. I don’t really think we have to [inaudible] Andy, for an hour or so. I think you’ve got some questions to be asked. Probably some of them can be asked to a point even before the committee meetings. A simple phone call from a Commissioner to Chris in reference to how we are going to do 71 this and say okay, this is what I’d like to see on it [inaudible] part of that’s been resolved before leave. Ms. Bonner, if necessary, I’ll volunteer as Chairman of Public Services to back our committee up to 12:30 from 12, take it and put it in there and those that are interested to come in there, we’ll receive it, Andy, on the front side of it, let those ask questions in that committee, and then be ready to send it on to the full Commission, if I could spearhead that amendment to get it out to vote on something the second week in August. Because I think it needs to have some rules. We can tweak them later but I think with what they put in, at least do them the courtesy to a point of we ask the questions out of committee, vote the thing up or down, second week on the regular meeting, and at least let them get us that to start with. If it’s not working, we’ll know real quick. And I think Commissioner Williams had a question in there in reference to [inaudible] one type of vendor that was in there [inaudible] I think that’s where that can be answered and it can be answered in the meantime. And I think even a point of clarification we need to help you all, Chris, is on some of this [inaudible] the City or MSA. I think when we maybe do some [inaudible] of the vendors’ license that are there, we can’t catch everybody that’s out there right now, but to a point maybe it needs to be clarified that if you’re going to operate a First Friday, maybe it needs to be clear that they do that checking with a particular office if that’s going to be the case, because if [inaudible] come down and I think I do this a certain way, but if there are certain rules from that particular group that I need to deal with, then the vendor may get caught in the middle and just needs to know what they can do. But that can be worked and I just like to -- this is a simple thing to put an amendment on. That’s all. I’ll take it in my committee and I think we can resolve it Monday. Mr. Boyles: Call the question, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Gentlemen, the question has been called. Mr. Hankerson: You didn’t get that amendment. Mr. Mays: Without the amendment. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: You got something, Mr. Wall? Mr. Wall: [inaudible] Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: I accept those amendments and send it to Public Services, let Commissioner Mays chair that, if that will get it moving. I mean I wasn’t trying to hold it up. And from what I remember, my motion was not to deny it, but to send it back so we can at least talk about it. Then if we talked about it in there, then we get it, we get some things cleared and send it on out. He wants amendment as if I said to kill it, and I don’t remember saying anything. 72 Mr. Mays: No, no, no. Let me [inaudible] you’re right. What I was trying to do - - you’re right, it didn’t do that, Marion, but what I was trying to specify was that if we were going to send it back at least put a time line on it to a point that it didn’t just come back to the committee with no intentions, that it just continues to drift on. At some point, the questions that we got need to be answered, come back with a document, and it’s still America, voted it up or down. You got ten folk that hopefully will be here at the next Commission meeting and get some rules or no rules. But I just want to get it moved on, to a point, but I also want to respect all my colleagues who have a question. I got a couple. Steve had things [inaudible]. You had some that you wanted on there. Bobby’s got some he wants. Send ‘em over to our committee, [inaudible] ask them, and then let’s move on with the document. That’s all I’m asking to do. And it wasn’t in saying you wanted to kill it. That [inaudible] didn’t mean that at all. But I just wanted to get it moving, that’s al. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Shepard, do you have further discussion? Mr. Mays: [inaudible] if that will get that off there [inaudible] you ain’t got to do that. Just send it to the committee. Mr. Shepard: Well, if the maker of the motion is willing to send it to Public Safety, I think that’s the appropriate place for it to be. And I’m the seconder. You have my -- the seconder will be with you [inaudible]. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Public Services. Mr. Shepard: Services. I’m sorry. Public Services. Mr. Mays: I’d rather give it to the chairman of Public Safety [inaudible] Mr. Williams: [inaudible] Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Gentlemen, a little order. We have it in Public Services. All right, there being no further discussion on this issue, all in favor of the motion, please signify by the sign of voting. Mr. Shepard: I’ll second Mr. Williams’ motion. Mr. Beard and Mr. Kuhlke out. Mr. Bridges and Mr. Cheek vote No. Motion carries 6-2. Mr. Naylor: 12 o’clock Monday, we’ll be there. Thank you very much. We appreciate it, gentlemen. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Ms. Bonner, next item, please. 73 The Clerk: We need to go back to item number 41, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. We overlooked that one. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Okay. The Clerk: PLANNING: 41. Z-03-53 – A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Gilda Moore requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a Family Day Care Home per Section 26-1 (F) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County affecting property located at 1034 Caddenwoods Drive and containing .31 acres. (Tax map 132-1 Parcel 142) DISTRICT 6 Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Commissioner Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. I’m happy to report, and I don’t know if the earth is going to shake when I make this motion. But I’m happy to report I have talked with Caddenwood and talked with the neighborhood, I’ve talked with the petitioner. The neighbors, quite frankly, were more concerned about the flooding that’s occurring between the neighborhoods. In fact, when I talked to several of the neighbors, they said really? I’d like to find out how much they’re going to charge, I might keep my kids there. The folks are quite aware of the aesthetic needs of maintaining the neighborhood and in keeping it safely. Safe. I did talk to them about the problems of parking on the streets and my concerns about in that concern there. But I would like to make a motion, and if the ground [inaudible] but this is a first, and I think this is pilot for But I would like to this, but 100% approval within the neighborhood is support of this. make a motion that we approve it with the support of this Commission. Mr. Williams: Second. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Motion and second on the floor. Any discussion? Hearing none -- Mr. Bridges: For the record, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, are there any that are opposed to it here? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Any objectors? Mr. Bridges: Any objectors? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: None. Any supporters? One. One noted. No objectors. All in favor of the motion, please signify by the sign of voting. Mr. Beard and Mr. Kuhlke out. 74 Motion carries 8-0. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: That’s a miracle. Next item. The Clerk: OTHER BUSINESS: 58. Discuss Commission’s comprehensive list of projects as requested by the DPLOST V Committee. (Requested by Commissioner Steve Shepard) Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Shepard. Mr. Shepard: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. At one point our SPLOST Committee asked this body for some specific projects that we would want to advance in the current SPLOST, proposed SPLOST that’s being debated. And then I understood that our SPLOST Committee wanted to end some of the hearings that they’re having, and the third development that I understand is happening is we’re trying to have some in-District meetings to determine some grass roots priorities, and I think grass roots priorities are absolutely essential for anything to get through the referendum process, as well as some regional projects which are county-wide projects. So I guess the only question I have is have we, Madame Clerk, scheduled all of our District meetings or scheduled all that anyone wants to schedule? And my thinking would be that we have our District meetings or grass roots meetings, that we then attempt to express ourselves to the SPLOST Committee. I just wanted some direction. I’m thinking that if we want to go back to the SPLOST Committee, probably the next step is to first have our grass roots meetings and I just don’t know what direction. They asked us for direction, and I’m trying to determine what body, what direction the body wants to give to that Committee. The Clerk: Yes, sir, Mr. Shepard. I have scheduled all the District meetings as requested by the representatives on the SPLOST Committee. I will present them that tentative schedule tomorrow. Mr. Shepard: Tomorrow? The Clerk: Yes, sir. And we should let you know. Mr. Shepard: So I would offer to them as a resolution to the SPLOST Committee that after we hold our hearings we’ll try to communicate those, those priorities to that committee. I make that in the form of a motion. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Motion and second on the floor. Mr. Cheek. 75 Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, I think this is great move and I’m really proud to note that we had our first grass roots meeting last month at the Saturday breakfast meeting. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: We got through it together. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion, please signify by the sign of voting. Mr. Beard and Mr. Kuhlke out. Motion carries 8-0. The Clerk: 59. Discuss the Special Exception petitions for Family Day Care Homes. (Requested by Commissioner Marion Williams) Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. I asked the Clerk to put this on the agenda mainly because of the young lady who we just approved. We had a big discussion about this last meeting. I talked with George Patty on several different times about family day cares. I support the neighborhood and the neighborhood associations very strongly. But we have had people to come before this board and before Planning & Zoning with no opposition, nobody opposing them, and they meet all of the guidelines and they was not changing the aesthetics of their home or they wasn’t putting up any signs. And we have been refusing them. And I really think that we need to look at this very closely. Commissioner Cheek just said he walked the neighborhood. We ought to maybe limit it to how many it’s going to be in a certain area. We ought not just open up for everybody. But this is a very important care that children need. I’ve got a problem when we care more about our neighborhood than we care about our children in the neighborhood. We have been voting against a lot of these small businesses. We are forcing people to go underground. Bootleg is a word I used before, in doing it. They do it and we don’t know who is doing it and there’s a lot of them out there. I’m not saying we ought to open up the gates and say everybody do that. But if a person not going to change, not going to put up a sign, not going to put up playground equipment at the homes and make their home look like a day care, we can put stipulations on that. We are the only county in the state of Georgia that enforcing a rule like this. And there was a survey. Statistics has showed that children that lives in a large environment versus children living in a small home environment have always progressed and turned out than children that live in what I call institutionalize environment, what I mean that when you put 40 children in a day care and six children in a home, they going get that home nourishment, they going get that one-on-one attention that children need, especially at a early age. So I had this put on the agenda to talk about why are we voting against when the Planning & Zoning says they approve, we come up here and disapprove it. We’re not on the same sheet of music. And I guess that’s not the first thing, but we need to get on the same sheet of music. If nobody has opposed and this young lady here that we approved today, nobody coming to Planning to object, nobody came to the Commission 76 and object, and we put her through all of that, to bring her back today to approve it. Now I understand Commissioner Cheek, he went out and looked at it, he talked to the neighbors and he talked about the earth shaking. I wouldn’t want to just open up the community or the neighborhood for businesses like garages and paint and body shops. But when you talking about child care, when you talking about how important child care is, what else I did, I called Family & Children Services and I got some information from them. There are a lot of families that -- foster families, they are taking care of foster children -- they got between six and eight children in their homes and they are being paid. But when a person comes before this board and meets the guidelines and we turn them down, then there is something wrong, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, and I wanted to bring that to our attention. I think we ought to support these people who are trying to do what’s right, trying to help our children. Our young people are needing attention extremely bad. I see our School Board representative out here now. They will attest to the problems that the school is dealing with because children are not being trained. Now we talk about serving alcohol to minors. We had a big issue on that. We talked about the bookstore that came into town. We got people who want to train, who want to help children, who want to help the neighborhood, who want to do some things differently, and we as a board of Commissioners have not done what we need to do. And I spoke with Mr. Patty, and Mr. Patty may not want to speak to the issue right now, but we talked about how is Augusta, how is Richmond County the only county out of 159 that’s regulating something like this. We are turning money away. We got people who want to come buy license, pay the taxes in this county, and we turn them away. So I’m going to support those businesses if the neighbors are not fighting them and they’re not talking about putting up a sign, if they’re not talking about putting up a body shop and paint shop. I’m going to support those people coming [inaudible] not going to ask them to speak but there are some people [inaudible] trying to help these people get in a small environment. George Patty has said that the guidelines explain that you can have as many relatives as you can get in your home if they’re related. They can be your cousins, cousin’s sister’s cousin’s children, but if they’re related you still can have as many related children in your home that you want to and you can charge. And then you can have two unrelated. So all we doing is pushing these people out in there not to come through us and not to share with us. We can put stipulations that they don’t do anything to change the aesthetics of their home so it will or will not look a different way than it look now. And I just think that’s something we need to continue, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. I don’t have anything else to say. That’s the issue I’m going to support cause I think it’s a very much needed entity. We need to find in our hearts to do what’s right about these businesses that want to come. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Is there a motion to accept this as information? Mr. Bridges: So move. Mr. Shepard: Second. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Motion and second on the floor. Any further discussion? Mr. Mays: Mr. Chairman. 77 Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Yes, sir. Mr. Mays: I want to, I want to thank my colleague for putting this on to at least get our attention with it, because I think [inaudible] whatever rules we’ve been going by, and I mentioned this at the last Commission meeting, that we basically have been dealing with neighborhood sentiment and that’s been the common denominator. And I think the key thing is in some cases [inaudible] that the sitting Commissioner of that District who is [inaudible] in terms of what goes on within his neighborhood and now within his District and within the City, took the personal time to walk it and to find that out. But I think if we find out and if we will encourage people who want to do these types of things in terms of helping children, in terms of gathering and getting that neighborhood support from the beginning, it’s a plus for everybody. And I think when they come in, to be able to have that and where there are no objectors, if that is going to be the common denominator that we judge it from, then that’s what we ought to stay with, and I applaud him for bringing that up, even though we’re not taking any action today per se to the [inaudible] or do anything. I think you don’t really have to. I think if you follow the trend of what we say are the rules, and I think that’s all that needs [inaudible] standpoint that if you’re not changing the aesthetics of the neighborhood, if you’re not making it look like any commercial business, and if the neighbors, particularly in places where a lot of folk want to actually have child care that they can walk to in some places. Some people that are in areas to a point of where they may car pool or where public transportation may not even reach, and they’re having to deal with [inaudible] be able to [inaudible] in walking distance of their own home. And you know, to a certain point, rules and a lot of things, they’re very good, you’ve got to have them, but you know, some of us came through some rules, gentlemen, that folk consider old school now, and it wasn’t that bad. And when you have certain things in neighborhoods that people could have accessibility to, that they actually needed, and one of those things was in terms of dealing with child care and dealing with it on a small basis in terms of [inaudible] children [inaudible]. I think the important thing is that they meet the guidelines that are set forth [inaudible] in terms of keeping children, that they have facilities that they can deal with and that meet whatever in current language [inaudible] says or [inaudible]. Those are the things that I think we should be concerned about on that basis and just follow our rule of thumb [inaudible]. I don’t think we can make new rules in the middle of the game. That’s all I wanted to say, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Gentlemen, there is a motion and a second on the floor. All in favor of the motion, please signify by the sign of voting. All in favor of the motion, please signify by raising your hand. Mr. Beard and Mr. Kuhlke out. Motion carries 8-0. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Next item, please. The Clerk: 78 ATTORNEY: th 61. Discuss Administrator’s contract. (Deferred from the July 15 Commission agenda) Mr. Wall: I have sent out a letter on July 21 indicating the time parameters insofar as renewal of the contract. Just to go over that, the notice has to be given at least 180 days prior to June 30, 2004; otherwise, the agreement is extended. So affirmative action by the Commission or by the Administrator is required to keep the contract from renewing. And that has to be done at least 180 days. That could be done, you know, in October, it could be done in November, it could be done in December, if the decision was not to, either by the Administrator or the Commission, not to renew the contract. You th don’t have to wait until the 180 day. And just to clarify, I still think you ought to go st with December 31, that’s the last day of the year. Technically, because 2004 is a Leap stst Year, you have January 1 but that’s a legal holiday, so effectively I think December 31 is the last date that that notice should be given. Now I think that perhaps you’re asking for [inaudible], Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. I’ll be happy to answer questions about that if you want me to before I get into the physical exam. Mr. Mays: The Mayor Pro Tem, he asked the older gentleman to proceed while he went to take, he went to [inaudible] and so he’ll be back shortly. Were you basically - - Mr. Wall: Do you want me to [inaudible]? Mr. Mays: Well, what I was going to do was open it up if any Commissioners had any questions at this time, of this point of where you are on this, Jim, and it’s open. The Chair recognize Commissioner Williams. Any other Commissioners on that end after him? st Mr. Williams: Jim, I guess I need -- you say December 31 and I need to know the exact date and whether they’re working days, whether they -- I mean what does the st contract actually say, Mr. Kolb agree or disagrees until December 31 and either do or don’t do, where is that going to put us, and then do we do the working days, should it been seven days a week, should it been five days a week? I need a drop dead date. 180 days you’re saying; right? st Mr. Wall: Drop dead date is January 1, 2004. But I’m saying you ought to treat the drop dead date as December 31, 2003, since January 1 is a legal holiday. st Mr. Williams: Well, but, but, but January, if December 31 is the eve of the holiday, it just as bad -- Mr. Wall: Because the post office is open and you’ll have [inaudible] deposit the st mail in and get it postmarked. On January 1, you’re not going to get it postmarked, on st January 1. And yes, you can deliver it by hand, but suppose you had to track Mr. Kolb 79 down, you’re not going to be able to put it in post office mail so you’re going to have to track him down and -- Mr. Williams: Excuse me for cutting you off, Jim, but that’s why I’m asking the question now cause I don’t want to get to the point where we’ve got to mail it or track him down if there’s -- there ought to be a date before that date. That’s the very last date, is what you’re saying to me; right? st Mr. Wall: I’m saying you ought to treat December 31, 2003, as the last date. stth You can do it December 1, you can do it November 15, you can do it today, you can do stst it any time up until December 31. But December 31 you ought to treat as the last day that you can give that notice. st Mr. Mays: So the 31 of December, 2003? Mr. Wall: That’s correct. Mr. Williams: Okay. I guess my next question is now after that time period, the st 1, and the post office closed, but that time period, then we would have to -- that would be automatic extension of the contract? Mr. Wall: That’s correct. Mr. Williams: No, if, and, buts about it? Okay. And, and, and, and, and we don’t to have to tell, we don’t to have to give Mr. Kolb anything prior to that, no, no written, no verbal, no anything prior to that date? Mr. Wall: Well, you have to give him notice, to him on that date, on the day that st you make -- by December 31. But that notice is effective at the time you drop it in the post office box or the time that you hand deliver it to him. You don’t have to wait until it’s received by him. But yes, you have to give him written notice that you’re not going to extend the contract, if you intend to terminate the contract. Mr. Williams: And the contract officially end at what? Mr. Wall: June 30, 2004. Mr. Williams: Mr. Mays, I don’t have anything else. I mean I got something else, but not on this. I’m really -- cause I was under the assumption, I was trying to get a date cause what it look like, Jim, ain’t but a 30 days difference in there, from December st 31, 2003, to -- Mr. Wall: June. Mr. Williams: June. Okay. I’m sorry. I’m thinking January. 80 Mr. Wall: It’s 180 days. Mr. Williams: Now, Mr. Mays, if I can continue. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem is back, if I can continue, Mr. Colclough. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Go ahead. Mr. Williams: The, the contract been written, Jim, and me and you talked about these contracts. I got a serious, serious problem with contracts that’s being written and we approve them and we find out later what the contract says, what the contract is. Mr. Wall: I have not checked the minutes, but I don’t think that’s the way this contract was handled. I’ll be glad to check it. Mr. Williams: Well -- Mr. Wall: There was a lot of discussion about this automatic renewal, and so I don’t think. Mr. Williams: You check your minutes. I mean they correct -- Mr. Wall: I think everybody had a copy of this in hand before it was voted on. Mr. Williams: Well, they correct me every week up here. I mean ain’t like it be the first time. But check the minutes and let’s see. But I got a serious problem with the contracts and I told you that I would not vote on any contract pending signing or anything else until I know what the contract state, what the contract says. We talked about the physical aspect of this contract for Mr. Kolb that has not been fulfilled to this date. And we even talked about you getting with his attorney and him and coming back with a revised situation where maybe we exclude that. But the contract says that he would have a yearly physical, and on that yearly physical, as far as the law would allow. Not past that, but as far the law would allow, that we would have privilege as much as we can. Not that that we can’t have. But that have not take place yet. Now is that not a violation of the contract? Mr. Wall: Well, at this point the Commission, if I’m understanding the Commission’s action, has indicated that they are not going to mandate that the complete medical record from the physician be delivered to each of you as Commissioners. Mr. Williams: Okay. I can agree with that. I don’t remember that part but I can agree with that. Mr. Wall: You’ve said that you wanted that, but I have not heard five other Commissioners join with you in saying that. Mr. Williams: But the contract says that. 81 Mr. Wall: Says it shall be delivered to the employer. That’s correct. [inaudible] Mr. Williams: Is that not, is that not a violation of the contract? Not what I wanted, but what was written? And that’s why I keep saying I got a problem with the contract the way it’s written. If it’s a contract, if it’s a legal document, whether the Commission say anything or not, that was supposed to be withheld, I mean performed; is that right? Mr. Wall: Well -- Mr. Williams: Right or wrong, Jim, I need your legal opinion. Right or wrong? If that supposed to be done and that what the contract said? You owe me $100, you sign, you either going pay me or go to jail; right? Mr. Wall: Well -- Mr. Williams: [inaudible] answer. Mr. Wall: That’s what the contract says but it’s up to the Commission as to whether or not they want to enforce it to that very letter of the contract. I mean here a medical report was provided. It was not all of the medical records, which is what the contract provides. Mr. Williams: It was a hand, it was a hand written medical report that was after the date, way after the date that I requested several time. It was a hand written report and there was a verbal statement saying he had had the physical. Well, that was not the way the contract was written, it was not the way the -- Mr. Wall: But the Commission has not chosen to say that they want all of the medical records. Mr. Williams: So what you saying is the Commissioners are the ones who supposed to follow up the contract, not the Attorney, not the man who sat down there and wrote them up? Now -- Mr. Wall: I don’t have the right to enforce a contract unilaterally or waive a condition. Mr. Williams: As a legal, as a legal member of this body, Jim, it’s not your responsibility to bring it to us? Now you ain’t supposed to take no action, maybe, but you supposed to say hey, this contract says A, B and C, and A been left off. Mr. Wall: Well, I have, I think I have explained the provision that you’re talking about on several occasions, but I have not seen five Commissioners join with you in 82 saying that we want every medical report to be provided to each one of us as Commissioners. Mr. Williams: James Wall, I’m going to ask you a legal question cause I’m getting permission from my attorney on my left, Mr. Shepard, who I try to partner with. In a court of law, a contract is a legal binding document; is that right? Mr. Wall: Yes, sir, in a court of law, if you got sued, if you got six, five more votes to say that one, you wanted to specifically perform that provision and get an injunction to require the employee to provide all the medical reports, I think the court would require that all those medical reports be turned over. Mr. Williams: If you didn’t get six votes to tell you not to pursue or not to [inaudible] the contract, now if you got six votes to say don’t do it, you didn’t get six votes to say do it, as a legal representation of this government, and the man who agreed and sat down with this other attorney and wrote this up, the law said, I mean the lay [inaudible], something, Jim, that ain’t nothing that [inaudible] if the Commissioners passed out, all of us, the law still said that it’s a binding document. And it has not been performed and it has not been fulfilled. That’s a breach of contract, is that right? Mr. Wall: The Commission could take the -- Mr. Williams: The Commission could -- yes or no? Mr. Wall: No, it’s not a breach of contract. Mr. Williams: Okay, it’s not a breach. Mr. Wall: [inaudible] somebody says it’s a breach. Mr. Williams: Okay. I done said that, I done said that 2,000 times. You say you want six, but I’m telling you that that’s a breach of contract cause that’s a binding document that we sit down, we agreed on, they agreed on, his attorney agreed on, he agreed on it, everybody knew it. But that’s a breach of contract. Had we [inaudible] contract and not give him the 30 days, we automatically have to be pay him and that would be right. That same thing happened with the Airport Director out there. We are being held, the citizens of Augusta being held to the contract that we agreed to and we uphold our part, but everybody else don’t do it. And that ain’t right. If it’s a legal binding document, and it don’t take no brain surgeon to figure that out now. Sure don’t take no lawyer. I’m through, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Thank you, sir. Mr. Mays: [inaudible] Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Let me just ask this, and I, when we were talking about this a few weeks ago and I was [inaudible] in reference to what we were doing today, let me, let me, let me clarify one thing I think that [inaudible] agenda 83 today is that the item where it says discuss Administrator’s contract, and that, that leaves open for discussion a lot of things, be it health provisions, but it whatever. [inaudible] As I said earlier, this was not a, a, a vote to deal with anything regarding -- and this is why, Jim, and I was [inaudible] when we were talking about going into legal, but I didn’t want to get the impression that this was in terms of discussing a personnel matter per se in reference to it. This was strictly on the terms of the contract and providing a time period and frame and I [inaudible] came about when discussion came up in reference to the airport on a specific date and whether or not you were -- you’re talking about little things in reference to calendar days versus working days and whether or not you are setting a time frame that you would end up talking about the 180 days. Now I heard you say earlier that you could do this in October, you can do it in November, you do it in st December, but the so-called drop date dead date to vote was [inaudible] December 31. I think what maybe would clarify this for all [inaudible] this simple motion, and this is not regarding any actions of the Administrator. This is simply dealing with contractual dates and how we vote. I think that in setting those dates, this would clear the Commission’s mind in terms of their time frame, Tat we vote on that time frame that you have suggested per se. Mr. Wall: [inaudible] Mr. Mays: Say for instance, from October 15 to December 31 or October 30 to December 31, that we simply vote on a time frame that is [inaudible] and inasmuch as you -- and the reason why I’m saying we need to do this ahead of time and do this [inaudible] fair to the Administrator and his attorney to a point that if there is something, that whether you vote up or down, whether you vote to a point of where it’s up and you start to negotiate other things in terms of a different contract or whatever, all of that’s open. What I think you need to do, though, and this is just one person’s opinion and this is the motion I’m going to make is fairly simple, I think, and you can correct me if I’m is establish a date period off on legal grounds to do it. But what I’d like to see us do that you’ve set, that this be sent to Mr. Kolb’s understanding so that it gives him time that if he needs to consult with his attorney or just acknowledge with you that this time frame -- Mr. Wall: He’s already acknowledged that. He’s acknowledged that date of st December 31. He’s already acknowledged that. Mr. Mays: You have that per se in phone conversation or you have that in writing? Mr. Wall: I have that in a phone conversation. I can confirm it in writing and I don’t [inaudible] -- Mr. Mays: Well, you and your law partner, the one who can out-eat me in fish, he told me, you know, the oral contracts were the worst ones y’all had to argue. I’m going to make a motion, and I think it just covers what you’ve got there, that we set the time frame parameters that you have suggested, that it be responded by over a reasonable 84 period, whether it’s ten, 14 days, 21 days, by the Administrator or the Administrator’s representative, and that then you have a time frame that you conduct this particular business. And that’s my motion. That way if there is objection to it, in fairness to the Administrator, he has time to respond if we do not vote on it in the proper time, or if [inaudible] done at a different time, I just think it gives everybody time and it clears the Commission’s mind on whether or not you’ve got calendar days, work days, whatever it might be. And then this gets us out of the bind of when we are supposed to do it. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: [inaudible] Mr. Mays: Mr. Wall had a suggested time when he went out, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. He had -- st Mr. Wall: [inaudible] any time up until December 31. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: On or before? Mr. Wall: On or before. Mr. Mays: You mean like tomorrow? Mr. Wall: Like today. Like tomorrow. [inaudible] Mr. Mays: I’ll back up, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, then with the Attorney’s suggested dates, communicate that to the Administrator’s representative so that it is clear in terms of when we have the right to determine there will be a voting period to deal with that. Mr. Colclough: I’ll second that. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. I’d like to ask Jim a question in here about contracts period, about whether it’s the Administrator or anybody else. I’m, I’m thinking that if you got a legal document, and you said you don’t want to change the contract by writing or put something else or dates down, Jim, but when you, when the contract is violated or not upheld, they you saying it’s up to the Commission for us to say the contract has been violated. That’s a legal decision. Mr. Wall: Legal advice is to whether or not you have the right to declare the contract, the party, the one who has [inaudible] Mr. Williams: Okay, okay, okay. Do we have the right, in your legal opinion, in your legal opinion do we have the right, have the contract been breached enough up here on the Administrator’s [inaudible], yes or no? I don’t need no explanation, just yes or no. If it no, just say no. 85 Mr. Wall: With all due respect, I can’t answer that. Mr. Williams: Yeah, you can, Jim. It’s either right or it’s wrong. Mr. Wall: You asked whether the contract has been breached, and I can’t answer that question yes or no. Has the contract been fulfilled to the letter of the contract? No. Mr. Williams: Then it been breached. Ain’t no legal mumbo about that. You ain’t going to slip through this one now. Mr. Wall: Okay. Mr. Williams: No, sir. Mr. Wall: I disagree with you. Mr. Williams: You can disagree. I want your legal opinion. I don’t want whether you agree or not. I’m saying that if it had not been fulfilled, it’s been breached. That’s the same thing. That’s another term. Man, this ain’t no courtroom you in now. This is another room, Jim. Don’t, don’t do that. Mr. Wall: I don’t agree with that. Mr. Williams: I understand. I understand. But I asked you a point blank yes or no. And you saying yes. Mr. Wall: No, I didn’t say that. Mr. Williams: That’s what you said. Mr. Wall: No, sir. I said had the contract been fulfilled to the letter of the contract, and I said the answer to that was no, it had not. [inaudible] breached -- Mr. Williams: [inaudible] Mr. Wall: I did not say the contract -- Mr. Williams: Okay, if the contract had not been fulfilled, and I’m going to interpret this now, I’m going to do my, my attorneying with Steve. If it had not been fulfilled, then yes, it been breached, meaning it been broke, it not been fulfilled, it has not carried out the letter of the contract that’s written. Now however you lawyers want to get together and do it, Steve, you might have to jump in on this. I’m talking about what is right. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Well, he’s got his hand up, he may want to speak. 86 Mr. Williams: All right, well, all I’m saying is we have asked for this over and over and over again. We even changed -- I made a motion that we would not even have - - we were supposed to pick the doctor, the physician. I even suggested that Mr. Kolb use his own physician, and as far as the law would allow us to come, to be able to see what the report is, is what I asked for. I have not got that yet. And, and that’s a breach of contract. But we would have to pay if we had done the same thing now, yes or no? I need an answer from you now. Your legal opinion. If we had of done the same thing on the other side, breached the contract, not fulfilled it, would we not have to pay? Just one of two things. If we breached the contract, didn’t fulfill it, we would have to pay, wouldn’t we? Mr. Wall: Well -- Mr. Williams: Ain’t no -- Mr. Wall: Let me give you an answer. No, you have not fulfilled the Commission’s obligation to do the evaluation, the annual evaluation by a certain time. Is that a breach of contract that would allow him to terminate the contract? Mr. Williams: If that what the contract says it is. Mr. Wall: Well, let me reach what it says. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Shepard, I’ll get to you. Mr. Shepard: That’s fine. Mr. Wall: [reading] The Commission shall review and evaluate the performance of the employee at least once annually in advance of the adoption of the annual operating budget. Such review and evaluation shall be in accordance with specific criteria developed jointly by the employer and employee. Said criteria may be added to or deleted to, deleted from as the Commission may from time to time determine in consultation with the employee. Further, the Mayor shall provide the employee with a summary written statement of the findings of the Commission and provide an adequate opportunity for the employee to discuss his evaluation with the Commission. (B) Annually the Commission and employee shall define such roles and performance objectives that they determine necessary for the proper operation of Augusta and in attainment of the Commission’s policy objectives and shall further furnish a relative priority among those various goals and objectives, said goals and objectives to be reduced in writing. They shall generally be attainable within the time limits as specified in annual operating and capital budgets and appropriations provided. [Ends reading] The Commission has not done that. Mr. Williams: We need another lawyer. Cause a lawyer should have, your legal expertise, should have brought whatever document we are bound to, to us for -- it ain’t 87 my job as Commissioner to keep up with the contract, to go down and say well, look, this is where we are. That the legal side of this thing. Mr. Wall: And it’s been pointed out to y’all. Mr. Williams: Okay, Jim, I’m through, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Shepard. Mr. Shepard: I think the -- we act as a body and I don’t -- you know [inaudible] and I’ll just give you one word and then we’ll have a little law school later on. The word is waiver. I call for the question, I call for the order of the day. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: The question been called, the order of the day been called. The Chair rules there has been ample discussion. We have a motion on the floor, Madame Clerk? We don’t have a motion. The Clerk: We need to get a second to it. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: I second it. The Clerk: You did, I’m sorry. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: We have a motion and a second on the floor. All in favor of the motion -- Mr. Shepard: Would you reread the motion, Madame Clerk? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Read the motion. The Clerk: It’s that the Attorney communicate to Mr. Kolb or his representative in writing the December 31, 2003 date. Mr. Mays: On or before. The Clerk: Hum? Mr. Mays: On or before. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: All in favor of the motion, please signify by the raising of the hand; all opposed likewise. Mr. Williams: Get a roll call vote, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Roll call vote. ROLL CALL VOTE: Mr. Bridges: No. 88 Mr. Williams: Yes. Mr. Cheek: No. Mr. Shepard: No. Mr. Colclough: Present. Mr. Mays: Yes. Mr. Boyles: Present. Mr. Hankerson: Yes. Mr. Colclough: Change mine to Yes. Motion fails. Mr. Shepard: I call for the order of the day. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: All right, Madame Clerk. The Clerk: We’re at legal session. Mr. Wall: 64. Legal Meeting. • Discuss litigation. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Motion to go into legal session. Mr. Cheek: So move. Mr. Shepard: Second. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Motion and second. Motion to go into legal session. Mr. Beard and Mr. Kuhlke out. Motion carries 8-0. [LEGAL MEETING – 6:40 TO 7:35 P.M.] 65. Motion to approve authorization for the Mayor to execute affidavit of compliance with Georgia's Open Meetings Act. Mr. Shepard: I move we approve the affidavit. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Motion and second to approve the affidavit. Any discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion, please signify by raising your hand. 89 Mr. Beard and Mr. Kuhlke out. Motion carries 8-0. 66. Discuss possible settlement of litigation. Mr. Wall: I’m asking that you approve settlement of the claim of Mr. and Mrs. James Germany for damages to their home at 3442 Monte Carlo Drive by paying the cleanup costs which we’ll pay directly to the contractor, that cleanup cost being in the amount of $6,492. We would pay to Mr. and Mrs. Germany a lump sum of $40,200 representing payment of $21,000 for contents, $16,400 for damage to the home and for the cost to repair it and the sum of $2,800 for housing costs from today’s date until they are able to move back into it. In addition to that, we’ve already paid for housing costs through today. Mr. Williams: Clarification, Jim. So what we doing is paying the family as of today for a place to stay. Mr. Wall: I’m saying we give them $2,800 in lump sum for future housing. Mr. Williams: In other words, they have to pay, they have to take that and pay for their own housing; right? Mr. Wall: Pay for their own housing. Mr. Williams: A little clarification. Okay. Mr. Wall:In exchange for a full release and a waiver of any claim that they cannot [inaudible] against [inaudible]. Mr. Shepard: Do we have that on record? Mr. Wall: What? Mr. Shepard: Do we have that on record? Mr. Wall: You’re agreeable to that, are you not, Mr. Germany? Mr. Germany: Yes, yes, we are. Mr. Shepard: [inaudible] Mr. Wall: It’s on there. Mr. Shepard: Motion to approve. Mr. Cheek: Second. 90 Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Motion and second on the floor to approve. Any discussion? All in favor of the motion, please signify by raising your hand. Mr. Beard and Mr. Kuhlke out. Motion carries 8-0. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Motion to adjourn? [MEETING ADJOURNED] Lena J. Bonner Clerk of Commission CERTIFICATION: I, Lena J. Bonner, Clerk of Commission, hereby certify that the above is a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular Meeting of Augusta Richmond County Commission held on August 5, 2003. ______________________________ Clerk of Commission 91