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HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-15-2003 Regular Meeting REGULAR MEETING COMMISSION CHAMBER July 15, 2003 Augusta Richmond County Commission convened at 2:10 p.m., Tuesday, July 15, 2003, the Honorable Bob Young, Mayor, presiding. PRESENT: Hons. Hankerson, Mays, Bridges, Kuhlke, Colclough, Shepard, Beard, Cheek, Williams and Bridges, members of Augusta Richmond County Commission. Also Present: Jim Wall, Attorney; George Kolb, Administrator; and Lena Bonner, Clerk of Commission. The invocation was given by the Rev. Terry L. Phillips. The Pledge of Allegiance was recited. The Clerk: EMPLOYEE OF MONTH AWARD: Mrs. Martha King Augusta Cares Program The Clerk: Ms. Martha King, would you please join with the Mayor and Mr. Kolb here at the podium, please? The Employee of the Month Selection Committee has selected Ms. Martha King with Augusta Cares as Employee of the Month for June, 2003. Ms. King has worked with the City of Augusta for over nine years. Ms. King is employed as the Augusta Cares Coordinator. She was nominated by a fellow employee and private citizen, Lucy Jackson, who writes: “Ms. King is an asset to the CSRA. She goes beyond the call of duty. She is dedicated to her job. Whenever you call on her, she gets right to the task. I had a situation in my neighborhood with debris and abandoned vehicles and Ms. King acted quickly to make sure that the area was cleaned. I feel that she puts herself in our place and works like she lives in the area, too, and she wants to see it clean. She always takes the time out of her busy schedule to respond to all complaints for all the citizens of Augusta.” The Committee felt that based on Ms. Jackson’s recommendation and Ms. King’s attributes, she should be awarded Employee of the Month. In addition to Ms. Jackson’s recommendation, the Committee reviewed many letters of commendation for Ms. King for all her hard work with all the citizens of Augusta. The Committee was also notified that Ms. King was the weekly Customer Service Award which was presented at the Department Heads staff meeting. Congratulations, Martha King. You’re making a difference for the City of Augusta. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Kolb: I’d just like to add my congratulations to Ms. King. Martha is truly what we call Augusta Cares. She represents and really cares about what happens to you 1 as citizens and in Augusta. I also believe that she is the model that we want all of our – and that we’re striving for – all of our employees to be, and that’s customer oriented, providing the best possible customer service to this community and to this organization as we can. So again, Martha, congratulations. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, if I might add. Martha, all of us receive calls from our Districts and we have two large Super Districts that receive calls [inaudible]. You, next to the Mayor, are the only other person that is truly an at-large representative of the th people of the city of Augusta, and on behalf of the 6 District we thank you for your representation and care for our city. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Williams: Likewise, Martha, in District 2, and you know we represent those people who have been neglected for a long time, but with your assistance and your dedication, we have made a great difference in District 2 and we certainly want to thank you. Commissioner Cheek and I have promised you a luncheon and we are still planning that, so hold us to that, and we just congratulate you and thank you for all you do. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Mayor: Madame Clerk, we have a recognition item on the agenda. The Clerk: Yes, sir, we do, Mr. Mayor. RECOGNITION: Congratulations…..Commissioner Bobby Hankerson for receiving his Elected Officials certification from the University of Georgia Harold F. Holtz Municipal Training Institute for Elected Officials during the Annual Georgia Municipal Association Meeting June 21-24, 2003. The Clerk: At this time, we’d like to offer our congratulations to Commissioner Bobby Hankerson for receiving his Elected Officials certification from the University of Georgia Harold F. Holtz Municipal Training Institute for Elected Officials during the Annual Georgia Municipal Association meeting this June. Congratulations, Mr. Hankerson. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Mayor: Okay, under delegations. The Clerk: Yes, sir. DELEGATION: 2 Five (5) minute time limit per delegation: Mr. Brian Green RE: Street Basketball Racks and ARC Coliseum Authority Mr. Mayor: Mr. Green, if you would give us your name and address for the record, then you have five minutes. Mr. Green: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Commission. My name is Brian Green. I’m at 2515 Center West Parkway, Augusta, Georgia. I’m here today, Mr. Mayor and Commission, for two reasons. The first one being a concern at this point more than a complaint. Concern of street basketball which basically is becoming more of a nuisance than anything as time goes on. Basically what’s happening is that these temporary basketball racks that you can buy for your yards, and play basketball in your yard, are now on the streets and all, and what is happening more and more, that you’re getting bigger groups and things like that, that pose a liability to people driving in the neighborhood, and the safety problem to the young people playing out there in the street. And I’m just here today to offer a suggestion that maybe you considering how you’re going to spend some of that SPLOST money or whatever. I’m here to suggest today as a possible remedy to this situation that we can pick out about five to seven strategic locations around the county and build double basketball courts. I’ve checked on some different price ranges and I’m hearing numbers from $10,000 to $12,000 for a nice basketball court. Not a park. But a basketball court, doesn’t necessarily have to be lit. And I feel if you were to build a certain amount of these, build seven to eight of these courts in strategic locations around the city, we can accomplish a few things from this. We can implement a low cost program, we can give the kids a place to actually play a legitimate basketball game, get them out of the street, return some order and quality back to the community. We can look at it any way we want to, but if a person is spending $100,000 in the community or whatever they’re spending their hard-earned money, they have the right to come home to a peaceful community and that sort of thing or drive through a community and not expect that maybe some young men who are out there playing ball don’t think you have a right to be driving a car down the roadway. And this is by no means condemning the young people who need somewhere to play. I don’t mean that at all. And again, this is just a concern today, at this point, more so than a complaint. I just think if we got on top of this situation, we can give another alternative, because it is coming frequently more. And also, Mr. Mayor, you’re having in some cases, you know, three and four racks in one neighborhood, you know. Some people are saying hey, I’m hearing basketball games going on till 12 o’clock, one o’clock at night. I just think this would be a low cost answer to that problem. And I’d be more than happy to address this in private with any one of the Commissioners and you, yourself, Mr. Mayor, at any time. Mr. Mayor: You have one minute left. Mr. Green: My last comment concerns the Coliseum Authority. For years we’ve gone back and forth about various issues and what I call ineffective politics. And there have been some change of faces down there and that sort of thing. And I think the time 3 has come, if we’re looking at the progress of the community, to disband the Coliseum Authority. And personally, as a citizen of this community, I think that Mr. Kolb is more than ample, that we would consider placing the Coliseum Authority underneath him. I don’t mean to put you on the spot, Mr. Kolb. I just think that it’s time that we seriously consider disbanding the Coliseum Authority. And I thank you. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Green. Mr. Green, I would suggest with respect to your comments about the SPLOST money that you put that in writing and send it to the Clerk, who will send it to the SPLOST Committee. They are soliciting suggestions now and conducting a series of weekly hearings, at which time they will be glad to discuss that in more detail with you. We have a request on item number 5 on the consent agenda, request from the Commissioner from District 6 to move this item to the next Commission meeting, to delay this until next Commission meeting. And if there’s no objection, we’ll do that with unanimous consent. Is there any objection. Item number 5. Okay. And for the benefit of the people in the audience, Madame Clerk, would you read the caption if anybody is here for that item, they’ll need to come back in two weeks. The Clerk: 5. A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Gilda Moore, requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a Family Day Care Home effecting property located at 1034 Caddenwood Drive. Mr. Mayor: If anyone is here for that item, we’ll take that up in our meeting in two weeks. Mr. Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Just a comment. I’ll be – I’ve been through the neighborhood. I live just up the hill and I have some concerns about that particular corner and that being one lane of traffic on both sides, and I’d like to meet with all the neighbors and just make sure we have concurrence within the neighborhood before we proceed, and so you’ll be seeing me very soon. Mr. Mayor: The next item, number 23 on your consent agenda, the Chairman of the Finance Committee has asked that this item be referred back to the Finance Committee for some additional work. If there is no objection, we will refer that back to the Finance Committee with unanimous consent today. Mr. Chairman. Mr. Shepard: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. The reason is, I believe Mr. Crews, who represents Augusta GYN, was not able to attend the last meeting of the Finance Committee and that may be because we got the dates confused. I think he wanted to th come before Finance Committee on the 28 and I may have told you the next meeting. The Clerk: Yes, sir. Mr. Shepard: And if I did that, I apologize to Mr. Crews and the Clerk. 4 The Clerk: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor: Any objection to moving that back to Finance? None heard, so we’ll dispose of those two items, them. Madame Clerk, if you would, let’s move on to the consent agenda. The Clerk: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor: And we have some items from Engineering Services we’d like to add to the consent agenda. The Clerk: Yes, sir. The consent agenda consists of items 1 through 24, item 30 under the regular agenda under Engineering Services, and item 32A. Item 30, the Engineering Services Committee accepted staff recommendation regarding to that adjustment. Item 32A is authorization with the dollar amount not to exceed $60,000. For the benefit of any objectors to our Planning petitions, would you please signify your objection by raising your hand once the petition is read? PLANNING: 1. Z-03-49 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Bishop Morris L. Williams, Sr., and Michel Isaacs, on behalf of Milton Martin, requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a church with day care activities per 26-1 (A) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County affecting property located Milledgeville Road. (Part of Tax Map 68-4 Parcel 27) DISTRICT 5 2. Z-03-50 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Larry Boyd, on behalf of Life in the River Worship Center, requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a church with day care activities per 26-1 (A) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County affecting property located at 2260 White Road and containing 6.54 acres. (Tax Map 57-4 Parcel 47.02) DISTRICT 2 3. Z-03-51 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by National Wireless Communications, Inc., on behalf of Rayonier Timberlands Operating Co., requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a telecommunication tower per Section 28- A of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County affecting property located at 5570 Deans Bridge Road and containing .23 acres. (Part of Tax Map 288, Parcel 1.01) DISTRICT 8 4. Z-03-52 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by National Wireless Communications, Inc., on behalf of Richard and Anne Maynard, requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a telecommunication tower per Section 28-A of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County affecting 5 property located at 2987-A Willis Foreman Road and containing .13 acres. (Tax map 151 Parcel 22.18) DISTRICT 8 6. Z-03-54 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Maureen Ruiz requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a Family Day Care Home per Section 26-1 (F) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County affecting property located at 2033 Bassford Drive and containing .37 acres. (Tax Map 164 Parcel 65) DISTRICT 4 7. Z-03-55 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Bernard Morgan requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a Family Personal Care Home per Section 26-1 (H) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County affecting property located at 1722 Barton Chapel Road and containing 1.06 acres. (Tax map 54 Parcel 37) DISTRICT 3 8. Z-03-56 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Lashanda Samuels requesting a change of zoning from Zone A (Agriculture) to Zone B-1 (Neighborhood Business) affecting property located on the northwest right-of-way line of Scott Nixon Memorial Drive, 235 feet, more or less, southwest of a point where the centerline of McKnight Industrial Road extended intersects with the northwest right-of-way line of Scott Nixon Memorial Drive and containing .68 acres. (Tax Map 22 Parcel 3.01) DISTRICT 3 9. Z-03-59 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Otis Benton requesting a change of zoning from R-1 (One-family Residential) to Zone R-1A (One-family Residential) affecting property located at 2625 Helen Street and containing .35 acres. (Tax Map 44-1 Parcel 1) DISTRICT 3 10. Z-03-62 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by David Duffie requesting a change of zoning from Zone A (Agriculture) to Zone B-2 (General Business) affecting property located at 3819 Wrightsboro Road and containing .69 acres. (Part of Tax Map 39 Parcel 19) DISTRICT 3 11. Z-03-64 – A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Church of Father God in Christ, on behalf of Michael W. Byrd, requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a church with day care activities per 26-1 (A) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta- Richmond County affecting property located on the western portion of 2247 Willis Foreman Road and containing 7.5 acres. (Tax Map 195 Part of Parcel 1) DISTRICT 8 The Clerk: Are there any objectors to those Planning petitions? Mr. Mayor: None are noted, Madame Clerk. Mr. Mayor: Gentlemen, what’s your pleasure with respect to the consent agenda? 6 Mr. Kuhlke: So move. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor: Motion and second.. Would you like to pull any items for individual discussion? Mr. Colclough: Mr. Mayor, I’d like to pull item 6. Mr. Mayor: Number 6 for Mr. Colclough. Okay. Any others? th Mr. Boyles: Mr. Mayor, on item 8, I believe that’s been changed to the 7 th Commission District. [inaudible] that’s been changed to the 7. Mr. Mayor: Okay, where it says District 3, it should be District 7? Mr. Boyles: District 7, right. Mr. Mayor: All right, so we have had a request to pull item 6. Mr. Beard, did you have -- anyone else? CONSENT AGENDA PLANNING: 1. Z-03-49 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Bishop Morris L. Williams, Sr., and Michel Isaacs, on behalf of Milton Martin, requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a church with day care activities per 26-1 (A) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County affecting property located Milledgeville Road. (Part of Tax Map 68-4 Parcel 27) DISTRICT 5 2. Z-03-50 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Larry Boyd, on behalf of Life in the River Worship Center, requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a church with day care activities per 26-1 (A) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County affecting property located at 2260 White Road and containing 6.54 acres. (Tax Map 57-4 Parcel 47.02) DISTRICT 2 3. Z-03-51 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by National Wireless Communications, Inc., on behalf of Rayonier Timberlands Operating Co., requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a telecommunication tower per Section 28- A of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County affecting property located at 5570 Deans Bridge Road and containing .23 acres. (Part of Tax Map 288, Parcel 1.01) DISTRICT 8 7 4. Z-03-52 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by National Wireless Communications, Inc., on behalf of Richard and Anne Maynard, requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a telecommunication tower per Section 28-A of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County affecting property located at 2987-A Willis Foreman Road and containing .13 acres. (Tax map 151 Parcel 22.18) DISTRICT 8 5. Deleted from the consent agenda. (To be considered at next meeting) 6. Deleted from the consent agenda. 7. Z-03-55 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Bernard Morgan requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a Family Personal Care Home per Section 26-1 (H) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County affecting property located at 1722 Barton Chapel Road and containing 1.06 acres. (Tax map 54 Parcel 37) DISTRICT 3 8. Z-03-56 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Lashanda Samuels requesting a change of zoning from Zone A (Agriculture) to Zone B-1 (Neighborhood Business) affecting property located on the northwest right-of-way line of Scott Nixon Memorial Drive, 235 feet, more or less, southwest of a point where the centerline of McKnight Industrial Road extended intersects with the northwest right-of-way line of Scott Nixon Memorial Drive and containing .68 acres. (Tax Map 22 Parcel 3.01) DISTRICT 3 9. Z-03-59 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Otis Benton requesting a change of zoning from R-1 (One-family Residential) to Zone R-1A (One-family Residential) affecting property located at 2625 Helen Street and containing .35 acres. (Tax Map 44-1 Parcel 1) DISTRICT 3 10. Z-03-62 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by David Duffie requesting a change of zoning from Zone A (Agriculture) to Zone B-2 (General Business) affecting property located at 3819 Wrightsboro Road and containing .69 acres. (Part of Tax Map 39 Parcel 19) DISTRICT 3 11. Z-03-64 – A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Church of Father God in Christ, on behalf of Michael W. Byrd, requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a church with day care activities per 26-1 (A) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta- Richmond County affecting property located on the western portion of 2247 Willis Foreman Road and containing 7.5 acres. (Tax Map 195 Part of Parcel 1) DISTRICT 8 12. ZA-R-161 – A request for concurrence with the Augusta- Richmond County Planning Commission to approve an amendment to the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County amending Section 35 by adding a new Section 35-9 entitled “Land Adjacent to Fort Gordon” to be consistent with O.C.G.A. 36-66.6. 8 13. FINAL PLAT – LION’S GATE, PHASE ONE – S-645-1 – A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Southern Partners, Inc., on behalf of ATC Development Corp., requesting final plat approval of Lion’s Gate subdivision. This development of fee simple townhomes is located on Bertram Road, north of the right-of-way of Center West Parkway. PUBLIC SERVICES: 14. Motion to approve the acceptance of a grant from the State of Georgia – Children and Youth Coordinating Council in the amount of $24,150.00. (Approved by Public Services Committee July 7, 2003) 15. Motion to allow Walton Options the use of one (1) Paratransit vehicle on July 26, 2003 for the 13th anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act. (Approved by Public Services Committee July 7, 2003) 16. Motion to approve request by Dawn Hadden for a Therapeutic Massage Operators License to be used in connection with Paradise Island Day Spa located at 210 Robert C. Daniel Parkway, Suite F. District 3. Super District 10. (Approved by Public Services Committee July 7, 2003) 17. Motion to approve the continuation of the bid process for Savannah Place Park Renovations; once bids are received on August 19 review and make decision as to whether build whole facility; look at alternate or the use of in-house forces to do project. (Approved by Public Services Committee July 7, 2003) ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES: 18. Motion to approve an Ordinance providing for the demolition of certain unsafe and uninhabitable properties in the Turpin Hill Neighborhood: 2106 Grand Boulevard, (District 1, Super District 9); Laney-Walker Neighborhood: 1249-1251 Eleventh Street, 1012 Spruce Street, (District 1, Super District 9); Olde Town Neighborhood: 120 Walker Street, (District 1, Super District 9), and waive 2nd reading. (Approved by Administrative Services Committee July 7, 2003) 19. Motion to approve the hiring of a consultant to facilitate a strategic planning retreat for the Commission on September 26 -27, 2003. (Approved by Administrative Services Committee July 7, 2003) PUBLIC SAFETY: 20. Motion to authorize the recruitment, training and sponsorship of an AmeriCorps resource. (Approved by Public Safety Committee July 7, 2003) 21. Motion to approve fee adjustment based on final construction costs for fire stations. (Approved by Public Safety Committee July 7, 2003) FINANCE: 22. Motion to deny communication hardware upgrades for the new Animal Services Facility. (Approved by Finance Committee July 7, 2003) 23. Referred back to the Finance Committee. PETITIONS & COMMUNICATIONS: 9 24. Motion to approve the minutes of the Commission July 1, 2003 regular meeting. 30. Consider a request from Henry and Elizabeth Jordan for an adjustment of costs in connection with water services incurred at 2422 Mt. Auburn Ave. [Staff recommendation accepted] 32A. Approve authorization to repair chiller at the Law Enforcement Center. [Approved at a cost not to exceed $60,000] Mr. Mayor: We have a motion to approve the consent agenda, minus item number 6. All in favor of that motion, please vote in the affirmative. Mr. Shepard: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Yes? Mr. Shepard: If I could be shown as abstaining on number 16 due to a client matter. The Clerk: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Shepard. Mr. Shepard abstains. Motion carries 9-1. [Item 16] Motion carries 10-0. [Items 1-4, 7-15, 17-22, 24, 30, 32A] Mr. Mayor: We’re going to bounce around a little bit because we have a number of people in the chambers for different things and we’d like to take those up so they can move on to other business they have today. First I’d like to move to item number 29 and ask Ms. Cheryl Turner from the Board of Health to give us an update on the mosquito control program. I’m sure that’s of interest to a lot of folks in these chambers today. ENGINEERING SERVICES: 29. Receive an overview from Ms. Cheryl Turner, Environmental Health Specialist, Richmond County Board of Health, regarding their Mosquito Control Program. Mr. Mayor: Cheryl, if you could pull the mike down and speak right into it so we can hear you. Ms. Turner: I’ve been working with the Department of Health with the mosquito program for over 25 years and of course you all know what we’ve had five years of drought and this year we haven’t had a drought. So with that in mind, the waters have 10 been accumulating and the mosquito eggs that have been laid on the sides of ditches and in holes and in areas that haven’t been bothered for the last five years have now gone all into the water and we’ve had a massive brood of mosquitoes coming out over the county. We also have a lot of work that’s being done in the county which has caused some problems with water building up behind homes, especially adjacent to the Bobby Jones. Last year, in June of 2002, we had 63 complaints. And this year, in the month of June we had 315 complaints. That’s five times the number of complaints. When we have a complaint, we go out to the residence and look for those things that could be causing the mosquitoes and treat those and also spray the area. We have, we spray four nights a week to do, to kill the adults during the evening hours, and we adulticide during the day. We’ve had help this year from several, from four different entities in the community, in the county. We’ve had Engineering, Trees & Landscape, Recreation & Parks and Utilities helping us. They’ve all been armed with a molecular film that they put on any type of water that they find, no matter how big or small. It only takes three squirts of this to -- from a quart bottle -- to cover 100 square feet of area, so that has put a big dent in some of our mosquito problems. The majority of our problems seem to still be coming from the north, although the south is where our swamps are, a majority of our complaints come from the north. This could be because of watering in some of those areas that I was talking about earlier that have to do with maintenance that’s going on. I know there’s a big problem in the Beverly Hills area. I’ve been notified of some problems off of Perrin and Lafayette and also on Martinique, which is in Kingston. Prior to this year, we had numerous complaints from west Floyd area and also Yates, which are in south Augusta. However, with the help of Engineering, we are able to do some work in those two areas and we have almost gotten rid of the mosquito problem there. We still have a problem because of the water but it is much, much decreased with their help. We would like to increase working with Engineering and maybe be able do some [inaudible] in other areas to help alleviate the mosquito problem. And we appreciate the county’s help with supporting the Health Department in mosquito control and all the efforts that they’ve gone to to help us. They’re even giving us reports when they do do the larvicide. Are there any questions? Mr. Mayor: Cheryl, thank you very much for that important report. That’s some very timely work you all are engaged in right now. Are there any questions from the Commissioners? Mr. Williams, then Mr. Bridges. Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Cheryl, I just want to know, have we increased the number of trucks that been spraying? I mean a lot of people -- I heard you say about the spraying you do in the water, but most people don’t see that equipment any more, and I’m wondering have we increased or are we at the same level and what level, how many piece of equipment we have for the entire county? Ms. Turner: We have five trucks. Only four of them are in working order right now. After talking with the guy who is over the maintenance department, half of our fleet is in excess of ten years old, going on 20. We have an ’81, an ’86 and an ’89 truck. And the other three are more recent trucks. So we have problems keeping them mechanically moving. And then also the machines on the back. I hope to be able to get a 11 new truck and a new machine this year which will help with that problem, if it [inaudible]. Mr. Williams: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Bridges: How many trucks do we have out now, then? Ms. Turner: There are four trucks that are on the road every day. Mr. Bridges: What, how long will that -- you originally started out with one and then in the summertime you increase it. How long will those four trucks be out there? When will you cut back to the one truck? Ms. Turner: Well, I found out yesterday, unfortunately, three of the guys are starting college the first of August, and so we’ll be back to one, unless we can coerce some of the regular employees of the Health Department to help with the load during the rest of the summer. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Shepard. Mr. Shepard: I have a question for the Attorney. Some of these vehicles, couldn’t they be purchased through SPLOST? Mr. Wall: Yes. Mr. Shepard: Might be something we can put in that list. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I think the efforts the government, in partnership with the Health Department, has made some really good progress this last year, but as representative of Commission to the Health, Board of Health, they are under continued budgetary pressure, sometimes percentage-wise great as or greater than we are, and we are going to have to come to some type of arrangement where we do assist with the purchase of vehicles with SPLOST money, as well as shelters to house those vehicles, and ways to staff those trucks, in the event that the Health Department is not able to do that. Mosquito-borne illnesses are major concerns, becoming more so every day. Ms. Turner, thank you for your cooperation, and I look forward to any process improvements you can suggest in the course of this summer. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Beard. Mr. Beard: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. My concern is, which you just mentioned, you mentioned one thing about the three young people leaving, going to college, and I’m really concerned [inaudible] we’re going to have one truck in August into September, we’re going to really be in for a time during those two months, and I was just wondering 12 maybe the Administrator, if he could look into some assistance or work with the Health Department in seeking how we can really alleviate that problem for those months. Because I see how it is going to be a problem. You can tell the difference there when you have all the trucks on the road. But one truck on, this a lot of square miles to cover. Mr. Mayor: Anything further? Do we have a motion to -- yes, Mr. Hankerson. Mr. Hankerson: And I just want to follow up on what Mr. Beard said. I am wondering whether or not we could have some feedback on this probably in the next committee meeting because we don’t want to wait until August and the students are gone and then we’re without that protection out there, because we know about the virus and so forth. And these mosquitoes, they’re very large mosquitoes out there. Very large. And it’s a serious problem I know in the rural areas and where there’s standing ponds and the subdivisions that have those detention ponds, retention ponds around them. It’s a problem there. So I hope that we can get a report back to know where we are with that to make sure that that is ongoing. Another thing I wanted to mention, what time of year do the program start? I think I called a couple of times and they said it starts somewhere around June because you’re depending on students. Ms. Turner: Right now we have a 75% person who works year round in mosquito control, so we are basically working all year round. We follow up on every complaint that comes in when it comes in. Mr. Hankerson: That’s one truck, though; right? Ms. Turner: One truck. Mr. Hankerson: Then you get the full crew out? Ms. Turner: The full crew is usually, has been in the past, because of the weather and the times [inaudible] second week in June. However, this year they were trained the last week in May because we were inundated with so many complaints prior to June. Mr. Hankerson: Okay, maybe Mr. Cheek, you’re on that committee, maybe we could look at next year of trying to start that program earlier than June, because June, the mosquitoes are already out there. Some way that we can try to get a full crew out there for some prevention before they get so serious. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Kolb, would it be possible for our staff to get with Ms. Turner before the next Engineering Services Committee and see how we can get through the rest of the summer and then have that report for the next committee meeting? Okay. Mr. Cheek. Mr. Cheek: I appreciate the recognition in that we did start over two years ago in developing this partnership and it came just in time for the rain, working with the Board of Health. But I’m concerned that we don’t have that vital time when you lose your part 13 time help, that by the next Engineering Services Committee that we do have a recommendation, some form of staffing support or partnership, further partnership relation to keep those trucks on the road, keep spraying and [inaudible] those mosquitoes. Ms. Turner: The City of Hephzibah has already allowed us to have two people th that they’re going to utilize after the 17. Well, they actually have taken one of the old machines and revamped it and has volunteered to use their equipment and their people to use that machine under our [inaudible]. Mr. Cheek: Anything we can do, Mr. Mayor, anything we can do to further keep th all four and perhaps get that 5 truck back on the road, I certainly hope that we will as a government take care of. Mr. Mayor: All right, do we have a motion to receive this as information? Mr. Cheek: So move. Mr. Shepard: Second. Ms. Turner; Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Discussion: All in favor, please vote in the affirmative. Thank you, Ms. Turner. Appreciate your update. Motion carries 10-0. Mr. Mayor: We have a number of people who are here for item number 27. Madame Clerk, if you’ll read the caption, we’ll proceed with that item next. The Clerk: PUBLIC SERVICES: 27. New Application: A.N. 03-20: A request by John M. Marks for a retail package Wine license to be used in connection with Delmonico’s Fine Food located at 139 Davis Road. District 7. Super District 10. (No recommendation from Public Services July 7, 2003) Mr. Mayor: Mr. Sherman, you want to give us the background on this and recommendation, please? Mr. Sherman: This is a request for a wine license. It’s to be used in conjunction with a retail food market on Davis Road, 139 Davis Road. The Sheriff’s Department and the License Department have reviewed the application. It meets our requirements with regard to the zoning and distance requirements to the front door of the church, and we recommend that it be approved. 14 Mr. Mayor: Okay. Are there any objectors here for this item? If you would, please raise your hand so we can get a count. Hold your hand up while the Attorney gets a count here, please. (20 objectors noted) Mr. Mayor: Are there any people here in support of this application? If you’d raise your hand, Mr. Attorney, if you can get a count. (12 supporters noted) Mr. Mayor: Is there someone here who wanted to speak on behalf of the petitioner? John, did you want to speak and address the Commission? Mr. Marks: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor: Come up and do that, please, and if there are any supporters who wanted to speak, we’ll hear from them and then we’ll hear from the objectors. If you would, pull the mike up and speak right into it so we can all hear. Mr. Marks: Mr. Mayor, we’re back down here. We have met all of the requirements. The License bureau has been for it, the Sheriff has been for it, and the people in the community have been for it, other than the church. And I went back to the surveyor today and got another survey done on the back of the property, from the door to their back yard. And I have it right here. I also have a letter here from Rep. Sue Burmeister giving a recommendation for this pass, if you all would like to see it. Mr. Mayor: Give that to the Clerk. She’ll get it to us. Mr. Marks: All right. It’s not going to be what they’re trying to make it out to be. It will be a Monday through Saturday store, from 10 to 7. There will be no drinking. No beer, no whiskey. Just all wine. And it won’t be that much of wine. No [inaudible]. You’ll buy your wine when you get your meat and you’ll go home and have it cooled down and go from there. And that’s all we’re trying to do. Mr. Mayor: This is not on premise consumption? Mr. Marks: It is not on premises. No, you come in, you buy what you want to buy, and you get in your car and you go home. Mr. Mayor: Do y’all have any questions for Mr. Marks? Mr. Bridges. Mr. Bridges: Yes. Mr. Marks, what have I got here and what are you trying to show with the map? 15 Mr. Marks: We had -- the License bureau told me to get a surveyor and get the distance from my door to the church’s front door. And we did. That didn’t seem to be good enough because they have another rule in the regulations book from the property line, so I went back to the front door and went to the closest property line, and we are over 100, 130, or 150 feet over what we’re supposed to be from the back property line. Mr. Bridges: So “D” is the church? I mean “D” is your business? Mr. Marks: Yes. Mr. Bridges: Okay. All right. Mr. Marks: And there’s not a single residence on that street, from Scott Nixon Boulevard to Washington Road. It’s all commercial. Mr. Mayor: Are there any other proponents that want to be heard? Mr. Marks: I’d like for her to read that letter from Representative Sue Burmeister. Mr. Mayor: Well, she’ll share that. It’s up here, isn’t it? The Clerk: I have it. Mr. Mayor: Why don’t you just pass that around up here and we’ll look at it? All right, let’s hear from the objectors then. Is there a spokesman for the group or -- if you’d like to be heard, just raise your hand and we’ll get a sense of -- just one person? Two of you will speak for the group? Okay, if you’ll come up and give us your name and address for the record and then -- Mr. Davenport: I’m Michael Davenport. I’m the pastor of Pineview Baptist Church. Mr. Mayor: Pastor, if you’ll speak right into that microphone. Mr. Davenport: 154 Davis Road. We know that Mr. Marks meets the criteria of the way the distance is figured and we understand that., even though I don’t agree with that. But we’re just too close. Our church has been there for 50 years trying to make a difference in that community, and all I’m trying to do -- I deal with people who drink and the problems of alcohol every day, and the first man, the drunkest man in this town did not intend to be a drunk when he took the first drink. And families are destroyed by it. And lives are messed up. And jobs are lost. And whether they’re going to consume it on the property or they going to take it home with them, it doesn’t matter. And if we let a loophole get in here and one place is established, then more and more can be and surround our church. And our church has been there a long time trying to make a difference in that community. And we just oppose it because if you go from corner to 16 corner, it’s much too close. And Mr. Mayor, I support your character work agenda you had, I support that, and I put that in our bulletins and things at church, and I was looking through it today. There’s words such as faith, honor, orderliness and responsibility, and if this body, I assume, supported you in that, they need to live by that, also. And you know, you’re asking us to do one thing and then we get here and do something else. And we need to just stop this thing once and for all, because those kind of things are what’s destroying lives in this community. And we ask you again to vote no. Mr. Mayor: Give us your name and address for the record, please. And speak right into the microphone. Ms. Williams: Hello. I’m Nancy Williams. And I’m the owner/director for the Ace DUI Community Intervention Program in Augusta, Georgia. And the reason why I’m here today is because I’m very much concerned about them giving permission, allowing for the alcohol license. We have very strict rules and regulations that govern our program. We have to please the Department of Human Resources in Atlanta, we also are required to please the Department of Motor Vehicle Services. And what they tell me is a driver improvement license will not be issued for a location where the distribution of or the sale of alcoholic beverages has been approved. So we’ve had that school there since early 90’s. It’s been located there at 138 Davis Road. The location he’s proposing is 139 Davis Road, which would be across the street. It is very much a concern to me because of the fact that we do the multi-offender group in the evenings, the afternoons and evenings. We have numerous DUI offenders come and they are sitting out on benches out in front of our facility because they do not have a driver’s license. They’re dependent on buses and other transportation. And I feel like we’d be doing a disservice to them to be looking straight across the street. We’re talking habitual violators that’s gotten two or more DUI’s in five years, that are mandated to come to these classes. They’ll be looking straight across the street at a facility that serves alcohol. That’s very much a concern to me. And I don’t care how upscale it might be, to an alcoholic, they’d just as soon drink wine as any other alcohol if they can’t get their beverage of choice. So I would strongly encourage all the panel members here, Commission members, to disapprove of this alcohol request for this license there. This move alone will cost me thousands of dollars. I have been in that facility for some time and I know that our Atlanta office would not approve of me having DUI offenders that close a proximity to the alcohol establishment across the street. We’re talking 138 Davis Road. He’s talking 139 Davis Road. I mean it’s very much a concern to me. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Okay, do any of the Commissioners have any questions for the objectors? Mr. Bridges. Mr. Bridges: I’d like to question the lady that just spoke. You’re saying you’re running a DUI school; is that right? Ms. Williams: That’s correct. 17 Mr. Bridges: And the State, if this is opened up, the State would require you to close? Ms. Williams: The State would come in, upon site visit, and knowing that this alcohol license, they could force me to move. That’s correct, they could close our facility. Mr. Bridges: You’re saying “could.” Now what is the ordinance or what is the rule or procedure that that would be done? Ms. Williams: July 1 they just passed a new set of laws, rules, regulations that govern both the DUI and defensive driving, and what they told me this morning on the phone when I called Atlanta was it would be close proximity, they said a State official would have to come out and view our program and they would decide at that time, that moment, as soon as his doors come over, we could opted to be closed. I’m talking tens of thousands of dollars just to relocate and get another facility established. And we’ve been there for some time. Mr. Bridges: Did you give them an indication of your situation and what they would do in that, just over the phone? Ms. Williams: I talked to them and I told them there was a proposed location at 139 Davis Road and they said well, you know, we’d have to come out, we’d have to look at the school, we’d have to measure the square footage and all, we’ve got all these new regs that just came in July 1. And so at that time they’d make a decision on whether or not the doors would be closed. Mr. Bridges: All right. They didn’t give you a definition of close proximity in regards to yards or feet or anything like that? Ms. Williams: No, they didn’t. But let me tell you something. It is no small feat, when you’re operating a DUI defensive driving school, you have to jump through a lot of hoops to get the Department of Motor Vehicle Service to approve you to do a school, and also the Department of Human Resources Community Treatment for Multiple Offenders. I mean it’s a lot of hoops to go through to be able to get up and going. Mr. Bridges: Mr. Mayor, could I continue? Mr. Mayor: Go ahead. Mr. Bridges: Could I ask Rob a question? Mr. Mayor: Certainly, go ahead. Mr. Bridges: Rob. 18 Mr. Mayor: Mr. Sherman. Mr. Bridges: Mr. Sherman. In regards to our ordinance, was this DUI school taken into consideration when you or the Sheriff recommends? Mr. Sherman: Well, actually, we didn’t know that it was there. Or at least I didn’t. But it’s 300 feet to government owned alcohol treatment centers. Owned or operated. Mr. Bridges: The 300 feet, so that’s 100 yards. Mr. Sherman: Right. Mr. Bridges: To government owned, now what does that mean? Is that in our ordinance? Mr. Sherman: That’s in our ordinance. Government owned. Mr. Bridges: Am I understanding this school is not government owned? Ms. Williams: No, this school is privately owned. Are you referring to Brightmore? I mean which government facility are you referring to? Mr. Sherman: Any that -- Mr. Mayor: Wait a minute. Let’s address our questions to the Chair. Don’t have side conversations. Mr. Sherman: [inaudible] ordinance that an establishment desiring to sell alcohol has to be no closer than 300 feet of a government owned and operated facility for the treatment of alcohol. Mr. Bridges: Following that up, are you in Richmond County or Columbia County? Ms. Williams: We’re right there on the property line, which is considered Columbia County. It’s right on the line. We’re at 138 Davis Road, and the proposed location is 139 Davis Road. Mr. Bridges: So you’re across -- are you directly across the street? Ms. Williams: Across the street. Mr. Marks: No, not directly across. Mr. Bridges: You’re in both counties? 19 Mr. Marks: No. Ms. Williams: No, we’re on the property line. Right there on the property line. Bristlecone Square. Mr. Mayor: Okay, Mr. Colclough. Mr. Colclough: Ma’am, you keep mentioning treatment. What is the qualification for the treatment, the type of treatment you have for A&D people? Ms. Williams: Qualifications for the treatment? Mr. Colclough: Yes. Ms. Williams: You have to be a Level 2 Certified Addiction Counselor in the State of Georgia or a Licensed Family Therapist. Mr. Colclough: A [inaudible], you have to be a [inaudible]? Ms. Williams: Uh-huh. You have to be a GACA Level 2 or above. Mr. Colclough: [inaudible] Mr. Mayor: Mr. Boyles. Mr. Boyles: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Rev. Davenport, if I may, you said that we didn’t want to establish a loophole in here somewhere. Where would the loophole be? I -- Mr. Davenport: I told the committee the other day, if they get the wine license, the next thing is the beer and liquor license if they want it, and my idea is just don’t ever do it to begin with. Because if you ever get one, then somewhere down the road they can come back with a smart lawyer and put anything they want to over there. And we’ve seen that happen already all over this county. Mr. Boyles: So we cannot put a restriction on this? Mr. Wall, can we put a restriction on that? If he wants to sell wine only, can we put a restriction on any other form of alcohol? Mr. Wall: Well, any -- Mr. Mayor: Could you come to the microphone, Mr. Wall? Talk into your microphone so we can get you in the minutes. 20 Mr. Wall: Any change in the license, any additional license, whether it be beer or liquor, would have to come back before the Commission to be approved, and so it would come back before this body and only this Commission could approve any change. Mr. Boyles: May I ask Mr. Sherman, then, Rob, on Davis Road, do we have any other establishments other than the Snug that sells alcohol by the drink? And then the Smile station or whatever it is now, the 76 station? Mr. Speaker: Cadwalladers. Mr. Mayor: That’s Columbia County. Mr. Boyles: I’m only dealing with the Columbia County line along that stretch of road. Mr. Sherman: Right. In Richmond County would be the Snug and then the -- formerly the Smile station. That’s all in Richmond County in that vicinity. Mr. Boyles: Can you approximate the distance from Toucan Road or the Pineview Church down to the Snug? Mr. Sherman: It’s probably a couple of thousand feet. Mr. Boyles: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Kuhlke. Mr. Kuhlke: Mr. Who? Mr. Mayor: Mr. Kuhlke, our Super Commissioner. Mr. Kuhlke: Mr. Mayor and fellow colleagues, I expressed this at the committee meeting the other day and said we adopt laws for this county, we try to eliminate as many loopholes as we possibly can. The applicant has met all the rules of the ordinances that we have adopted for this County. While I’m sympathetic to your position at the church and your position, also, but I think we have a similar situation out on Peach Orchard I’d like to make a motion that we approve the Road. But with that being said, application for Mr. Marks. Mr. Beard: I second that. Mr. Mayor: We have a motion and a second. Discussion on the motion? Mr. Shepard. Mr. Shepard: Thank you. My question for the petitioner. Is this facility going to be like Fresh Market? I mean it’s not a restaurant? 21 Mr. Marks: Something like that. Mr. Shepard: Grocery? Mr. Marks: There’s no eating. Mr. Shepard: Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Anything further? Mr. Bridges: I’ve got -- Mr. Mayor: Mr. Bridges. Mr. Bridges: Jim, in regards to the school, my understand is, you know, our ordinance reads strictly a government school and this is private. But does the government school make any difference by county line? I mean what I’m trying to get to here is I see no difference with the government operating one and a private one. I mean the effect is going to be the same. What I’m hearing is we are going to open one business up and shut another one down. That’s what I’m hearing. Mr. Wall: I’m not certain that that’s the case. Because, I mean, there is -- Mr. Bridges: Well, we don’t know until they come and look at it, you know, but - - Mr. Wall: Well, I hear there is another school already operating in the county that’s in close proximity to a business that sells alcohol, so I don’t -- there is no -- Mr. Bridges: Has there been a precedent set or anything like that done thus far? Mr. Wall: Well, and I’m not totally familiar with the location that they’re talking about, but it was mentioned to me that there is another DUI school that’s in close proximity to an alcohol establishment. And I don’t now what type of business that is. But the ordinance is specific in specifying government schools. Private schools are defined and limited as to what type. In my opinion, this does not fall in the definition of a private school that would allow you to exclude it. And so I mean under what’s been said today, they meet the criteria. Mr. Mayor: Anything further? We have a motion on the floor. All in favor of that motion to approve, please vote in the affirmative. Mr. Boyles, Mr. Bridges and Mr. Hankerson vote No. Motion carries 7-3. 22 Mr. Mayor: Madame Clerk, do you know if we have any delegations here for any other items? The Clerk: Yes, sir, we have a person here on [inaudible]. Mr. Mayor: As soon as we clear the chambers, those who want to leave, we’ll take that one up next. All right, Madame Clerk, I understand we have a member of the public here for item number 26, so we’ll go ahead and take that item up now. The Clerk: Yes, sir. 26. Z-03-61 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to deny a petition by Steve Brown, on behalf of Courtney Tobb Well, et al., requesting a change of zoning from Zone R-1A (One-family Residential) to Zone P-1 (Professional) affecting property located on the northwest right-of-way line of Mayo Road, 306.09 feet southwest of a point where the southwest right-of-way line of Stevens Creek Road intersects with the northwest right-of-way line of Mayo Road and containing approximately 5.33 acres. (Part of Tax Map 6 Parcel 13) DISTRICT 7 Mr. Mayor: All right, Mr. Patty. Planning Commission here? George. We’re on 26, if you can give us the background on that. Mr. Patty: Okay, 25 and 26 are related cases. PLANNING: 25. Z-03-60 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Steve Brown, on behalf of Courtney Tobb Well, et al, requesting a change of zoning from Zone R-1A (One-family Residential) to Zone B-1 (Neighborhood Business) affecting property located where the southwest right-of-way line of Stevens Creek Road intersects with the northwest right-of-way line of Mayo Road and containing approximately 2 acres. (Part of Tax Map 6 Parcel 13) DISTRICT 7 Mr. Patty: These cases involve a 15-acre tract at the intersection of Mayo Road and Stevens Creek Road that were put on the market as a result of the death of the owner some time ago. 26 was denied. 25 involved the corner property. Two acres. And it had Commercial across Stevens Creek Road, a convenience store across Stevens Creek Road, and it had Commercial across Mayo Road, which was a gift shop. And it was approved. And 26 was a request to zone an additional 5.33 acres Professional fronting on Mayo Road from the Commercial corner to the end of the property on Mayo Road. And there were objectors. The zoning of the entire property did not conform to the comprehensive plan which indicates that 500 feet approximately on Mayo Road should be zoned and it was denied for that reason. 23 Mr. Mayor: Are there any objectors here? All right, if you’d raise your hand so the Attorney can get a count. If you’re an objector, raise your hand. (10 objectors noted) Mr. Mayor: Is the, are there any people here to speak in favor of this rezoning? Is the petitioner here? All right. Steve, if you’ll come up. Mr. Brown: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Boyles: Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Right now we’re taking up item 26, which is recommended denial, then we’ll get to 25. Mr. Boyles: Okay. Mr. Brown: Mr. Mayor, Commissioners, my name is Steve Brown and I’m here at the request of Courtney Well and her two sisters to change the zoning from R-1A, One-family Residential, to zone B-1, Neighborhood Business, affecting property located on the northwest intersection, the right-of-way where Stevens Creek intersects with Mayo Road and containing approximately two acres. The entire tract contains approximately 7.33 acres. Excuse me, I went from 25 on to 26. We’re talking about Professional. The P-1. Mr. Mayor: I tell you what. Steve, I’ve just spoken with the Clerk, and let’s do this. Let’s go ahead and I understand the objectors are here for both of these items, so let’s go ahead and have our discussions with respect to items 25 and 26, and we may end up voting on them separately, but let’s go ahead and discuss them. Mr. Brown: Item 25, and I have two pictures here I want to show. And [inaudible] the intersection here of Riverwatch Parkway and Mayo Road, you see [inaudible]. We have another [inaudible]. We have submitted with Mr. Patty protective covenants on the property to conform with the neighborhood. Those will be recorded with the deed on the sale of the property. They run with the property for 20 years and renewable another ten years. And we intend to have a neighborhood use, that’s compatible with that neighborhood. A gift store is across the street. Gift store or outdoor clothing store or something like. Mr. Mayor: All right, do we have any questions for Mr. Brown? Mr. Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Are your construction patterns going to be consistent with the existing neighborhood in the style and quality? Mr. Brown: Yes, sir, Mr. Cheek. I’ve got the [inaudible]. I think George has got that. 24 Mr. Cheek: What kind of operating hours would businesses like these typically have? Mr. Brown: Just general business. You know, from 8 to 6. 8 to 8. Whatever it is. [inaudible] and let me say this. The reason I have those [inaudible] -- Mr. Mayor: Speak right into the mike so we can hear you. Mr. Brown: We, we intend something on the example of Monte Sano and Central Avenue, where you have the Rags, the clothing store, and then as you go south on Monte Sano you have a series of dental offices. That was our plan, and you have residential property behind it and you have residential property across the street. And that was our intention for this. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Boyles. Mr. Boyles: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Steve, if I could, I guess I’m probably closer to that intersection than any other member of the Commission because I live two blocks from there. Two questions. One, what, what type of business are you talking about putting in there? We’re talking the B-1, the B-1 zone. Mr. Brown: Right. Any business that is supported under the B-1 zoning. We think that there’s, you know, a gift store there but if we have the opportunity to have something a little larger, a little nicer, more accommodating the neighborhood, that’s our intention. But out intention is not to have any sort of fast food restaurant or anything like that. No liquor license or anything like that. No. No. Strictly B-1. Neighborhood use. Mr. Boyles: Steve, let me follow up by saying that in my neighborhood, which would be on the right-hand side of Stevens Creek going out, how difficult it is early morning, late afternoon, trying to get out and make a left turn back towards Augusta on Stevens Creek, and I think the Administrator can vouch for that, too. Because we get all of our traffic there that comes from Columbia County, from Hampstead, from Stevens Pointe, from West Lake and on out past there. They come down that stretch of Stevens Creek Road and they are coming at a pretty good rate of speed. And they come around a corner, a curve going downhill. And I sat over for two days over at the nursing home, just at random times for the last two days just trying to watch that traffic come down, and we have enough problem there now, without a traffic light at that point, and I fought this battle on Pleasant Home Road with folks who were trying, people who were trying to go to the nursing home to see relatives and then they, at their age, trying to get out. That’s what concerns me the most about this property on the front side. And I think for those reasons, without the proper traffic lights, lighting, and what else it may take right there, I’m just afraid that I’m against that. Mr. Brown: Well, I appreciate your concern, Mr. Boyles, but you know, it is a neighborhood use and we are only developing two acres, so the amount of square footage 25 and the people we serve are not going to be overwhelming, I believe, for that intersection. And then of course, there’s no more Commercial development that will occur north of the property except for what is already zoned B-1 that’s on the two, two or three lots up on Stevens Creek. My opinion, I guess Mr. Patty might be able to expound on it, to create a traffic -- I don’t believe a traffic hazard would be created there with a two acre B-1 zoning. Mr. Boyles: Well, it just concerns me because, because of the heavy influx. And we’re glad they’re coming down from Columbia County to their jobs in Richmond, we’re very proud of that. But it sure makes it tough for us on that side of the road to try to get out. And I think that problem is going to continue with the development that we are trying to do along -- I was just given another copy of this a while ago from Tom Beck of the park that’s going in there, that we’ve spent $1.5 million to develop. Those are just comments of mine, Mr. Mayor, and I appreciate you allowing me to express them. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Shepard and then Mr. Kuhlke. Mr. Shepard: Well, Mr. Mayor, and Mr. Boyles, would a traffic light, signal, at Mayo -- at Mayo and Stevens Creek, would that be in the interest of public safety for those folks that are in your neighborhood and help control this? Mr. Boyles: I don’t know that it would be a good, a good idea because a lot of us, you know, sometimes we think there’s too many traffic lights as it is. But something is going to have to be done there in the future and that is probably less than ¼ mile, of course, from the intersection of Stevens Creek and Riverwatch Parkway. Maybe less than ¼ mile. And you get the traffic signalization at that intersection. I just think we’re kind of getting, we’re turning what has -- we changed all 1-A zoning from Agricultural not too long ago and we’re going to turn it to something that for long term we may not want up there. Mr. Shepard: A couple of follow-up questions, maybe to the Administrator or to Mr. Patty. What would signalizing that cost or -- I think there are State warrants that you have to deal with now. Is it something we can do or couldn’t do or can you help me out on that? Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission, Mr. Boyles is correct. There is a problem there. I’m not sure what the traffic control solution would be. Specifically to answer your question, it would cost about $80,000 probably to signalize that or some intersection. One thought that I had is that we have to get with Columbia County, since the county line is right there. Signalization could occur on Evans-to-Lock Road and Stevens Creek, where they have a four-way stop there now. Mr. Mayor: That’s signalized now. Mr. Speaker: It’s a four-way stop. 26 Mr. Kolb: No, it’s a four-way stop. And perhaps the signal is being planned there that would impact traffic further down Stevens Creek Road. So without further study, I don’t think -- we could compound the traffic situation if we try to do something immediately. Mr. Shepard: Well, I think we’d get some coordination with the Columbia County Commission, wouldn’t we, Steve? And I was just wondering for my study of this issue, is there any sentiment to holding it over to see if we can deal with the traffic and public safety concerns? Mr. Kolb: I would recommend not, to proceed with whatever you’re going to do with zoning. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Kuhlke. Mr. Kuhlke: Yeah, I just wanted to ask Mr. Brown, obviously you hadn’t submitted any site plan on this piece of property, but what is your idea as far as getting in and out of the property that faces on Stevens Creek? Are you going to do it on Stevens Creek or are you going to do it on Mayo Road? Mr. Brown: One curb cut on Stevens Creek and one on Mayo Road. Mr. Kuhlke: One on Mayo Road. And isn’t it customary for small retail shops, they normally don’t open till about 9 or 9:30 in the morning? Mr. Brown: That’s correct. Mr. Kuhlke: And if I’m not mistaken, most of your heavy traffic is gone by that time. Now at five o’clock in the afternoon it’s a different story. And facility-wise on that two-acre tract, are you proposing how many structures? Mr. Brown: One. Mr. Kuhlke: Just one structure? Mr. Brown: Yes, sir. Mr. Kuhlke: But maybe with two or three businesses in there? Mr. Brown: One. Mr. Kuhlke: Just one business? Mr. Brown: Correct. Let me say. There’s a distance factor. [inaudible] and the road does [inaudible]. I mean myself have been down there many times and I’ve never had a problem with turning on Mayo Road, and I honestly don’t think that this one 27 Commercial with B-1 surrounding it is going to have any safety or detrimental affect on people coming on Stevens Creek. Mr. Mayor: We have some objectors who are here today. I’d like to give them a moment to be heard before we continue our discussion. Is there a spokesman for the group, not that we’re trying to stifle anybody from speaking. We’ll be glad to let everybody speak that would like to, but if there’s a spokesman for the group, if you’d come forward, give us your name and address for the record, and tell us what you think we need to hear. Mr. Stewart: Okay, I’m Charles Stewart. 2060 Bridgewater Drive. I live in Brookfield Subdivision, which is right off Mayo Road. And I’m here in the place of my wife, Fran. Many of you know Fran, and unfortunately she couldn’t be here. I cleared this with her, by the way. (Laughter) Mr. Stewart: I’ve provided each Commissioner with just a map of the area we’re speaking of, and it’s clearly marked, orange being the neighborhood area you’re looking th at, as well as the 7 District perimeter there, along with a fact sheet that relates to a lot of things that are going on that are impacting just our neighborhood and quite possibly other neighborhoods outside of our area. First, up front, I’d like to say we do recommend the rezoning petition be denied. That’s for both requests. I do have a petition signed by 87 individuals to support this. The citizens in our area have been collectively working, even before Riverwatch Parkway was built, and more so thereafter, to preclude unwarranted encroachment of businesses that will have a derogatory effect on our neighborhoods. This rezoning request is just one situation among others in the past where we, as responsible citizens and homeowners, feel compelled to present our case to guide the conscience of our leaders who have the power to effect or prevent change, who have the power to effect or prevent change that adversely affects our neighborhoods. Already we are impacted by 53 acres zoned Business on Fury’s Ferry Road across from Prattwood Drive, which is a Brookfield neighborhood entrance. And behind West Hills, areas are zoned [inaudible], Light Industrial and Commercial. Older neighborhoods, such as those in our area, Brookfield, West Hills, Hunters Ridge and Mayo subdivisions are pretty well holding their own value so far. We do not want to evolve into neighborhoods that will one day require drastic revitalization efforts, such as downtown. Planning & Zoning has been sympathetic to this by rezoning some Agricultural properties Single-Family. Commercial, and I include Business and Professional -- Commercial encroachment, if not checked, will contribute to the decline of adjoining neighborhoods. Businesses come and go and there is no guarantee that the original business plan will continue to provide quality tenants or facilities for them to remain a neutral influence on adjoining neighborhoods. Obviously, we’re looking at the short and the long term effects of this. Businesses by their very nature will generate more traffic, as Mr. Boyles has pointed out. In economic downturns, many businesses become vacant and not maintained. As you know, other areas in our city are facing those type problems right now. Through the efforts of a few dedicated individuals, my wife included, the neighborhoods in our area 28 have a nice 6-1/2 acre park being constructed on Mayo Road, and this is just one positive step, rather a major step, in the effort to maintain the quality of our neighborhood. The bottom line, we feel, is that commercialization near parks and neighborhoods is not considered a positive factor. So, I urge you to deny this rezoning petition. By doing so, you are discouraging commercialization of arterial and [inaudible] where commercial development is not established. Commercial zoning on major transportation facilities should be limited to an area within 500’ of the center of such intersection, or to a strip no more than 300’ deep. And this is quoted from the Comprehensive Use Plan. And I do have copies of this if anyone would like a copy after the meeting. I’ll be glad to provide a copy of this. I’m not ashamed to provide that to you. That’s all I have. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. And if you would give the petitions to the Clerk so we could have those for the record. Do we have some other speakers? Okay, if y’all would come up individually to the podium, give us your name and address for the record. Mr. Cromer: Yes, Mr. Mayor. Harold Cromer. I live at 2706 Mayo Road. The rezoning on this property, at the present time I would be the only resident that it would affect. Mr. Brown and myself have discussed this and I am very sympathetic to the property owners, I’m very sympathetic to Mr. Brown and what he’s trying to achieve. And there’s all possibilities that would increase the value of home. But that’s not what I’m looking for. Stevens Creek Road at the intersection of Mayor Road is one of the busiest intersections there is above Riverwatch Parkway and Stevens Creek Road. You have to look at the traffic out there on a daily basis to see what goes on. An exit on Mayo Road would be probably safer, but no more efficient than it would be on Stevens Creek Road. Now the businesses that are already out there, that exist were residences. There’s a gift shop on the south side of Mayo Road. Corner of Stevens Creek and Mayo Road, that was a home. There’s a widow who lives there, has a little gift shop. Next to her, south of her, is a heating and air conditioning business that the man only uses to park his trucks and conduct his business. Mayor Road, for those of you that are not familiar with it, is approximately a mile long. It’s a dead end both ways. It dead ends at Big Hunt Road going west and it dead ends at Stevens Creek Road going east. I frankly don’t see how it could be practical to put a traffic light there. As Commissioner Boyles has already stated, there’s a curve and a hill and I think were it not for anti-lock brakes, I don’t know how people get from being killed out there. The traffic is tremendous going both ways, as was stated, early in the morning and late in the afternoon. But I would like the Commission to consider the amount of traffic and the condition for people coming from the subdivisions on both sides of Stevens Creek Road and down Mayo Road. Thank you very much. Mr. Mayor: You’ve asked for denial of both? Mr. Cromer: I’m asking for denial on both of them. Mr. Mayor: All right, thank you. Next, if you’d give us your name and address for the record, please. 29 Mr. Brown: Mr. Mayor, Commissioners, my name is John Brown and I thought I was the closest person to this. Mr. Cromer: My front yard. (Laughter) Mr. Brown: On the other side of the street, I’m the closest. Selfishly, I would say that, you now, it is really good. My wife and I get up and walk at about 4:30. We didn’t go this morning cause I stayed up late last night practicing, Steve. But it’s so good to get to the end of Mayo. And Mayo is actually exactly 1.0 miles. I walk it every day. We’ve only lived there, I guess a couple of years. We moved from Martinez there and with the boys gone, I figured this would be the last house. So selfishly, I would not like to see anything else make it any busier. In the mornings, you can hear the frogs. (Makes frog sounds.) And one morning, I saw a family of possums going across that road. There’s always a big turtle there. It is just so good. And Mr. Brown, it would really change the complexion. I know you mentioned the other day that you drive through Evans to your house, and I’m looking around, I’m gray, a lot of you guys are gray. I mean you [inaudible] Pleasant Home – it’s okay, Mr. Mayor, if I look at him while I tell him? But you wouldn’t want your business on that street you live at in Evans, I would assume, so that’s what we are saying. It’s already very, very business. Mr. Boyles, it’s already busy now. I was thinking that we might need to do like Springlakes and get some of those bumpers because there are two or three guys that go 70 mph on Mayo. But my selfishness says because it would make it even busier and I want to live there, I figure I’ve got another 20 at least, so I’d like to stay there. And I wouldn’t want – the lady who has the little gift shop sells the best jam in the world. I’m glad she’s there. And she says she’s been there 30 years. We just don’t need – right now [inaudible] Fury’s Ferry and Riverwatch [inaudible]. They’re not taken up yet. There’s plenty of space there. I don’t now [inaudible] there was something in the paper about them not getting it complete. It’s complete. Ready to go. I just don’t see the need. So from a selfish standpoint, I’m close. I think that’s all I wanted to say. And thank you very, very much. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Any questions for the objectors or for Mr. Brown? Mr. Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Just a couple of questions. I’m somewhat familiar with the area. Mr. Patty, what is the most likely use of this property in the future? The map that I see here is pretty much open, open ground between Mayo and Riverwatch. Undeveloped property. Mr. Patty: Well, I would submit to you that the plan provides for non-residential zoning within 500’ of the intersection, and that would include this property and approximately 150’ of the property he’d like zoned Professional. If you look at similarly- situated properties, this is a T intersection. You’ve got two other properties that [inaudible]. Both of them are zoned Professional, I mean both of them are zoned Commercial. The question is, frankly, R-1 zoning, which would only allow single-family 30 houses to build on this property, does that provide for a reasonable use of the property? And I frankly think the answer is no. Now as far as the Professional, if you get on down Mayo Road, even though the plans support 150’ of that to be Professional, you know, you do have houses. Across the street you’ve got somebody who is building a new house over there. So I don’t think you can make the same case that the present zoning isn’t adequate. But the plan does support 150’ of that Professional being zoned, 150’ of that second request being zoned Professional, but, you know, I think the Planning Commission has made a reasonable decision there, but I think the corner – I just don’t think R-1A, Single-family Residential, is the reasonable zoning for that property. I don’t know if I answered your question or not. Mr. Cheek: You did. And I guess the thing that – we learned a lesson on Tobacco Road at Sand Ridge subdivision where property zoned Commercial years and years ago – but it was a situation to where sooner or later – we fought and fought and sooner or later something was going to come in there. And we were able to get something Professional – Business – in that property and working with the neighborhood and their ingress and egress position. That has not been a detriment to the community and it has not been nearly a traffic problem and so forth, but in any event it was something that did occupy the space and did not bring – it was a quality piece of construction, and that is my concern here, is that if we defer this, there’s no guarantee that in the future we’re going to [inaudible], in fact, there’s a chance we will get something less desirable located in that position. And Stevens Creek Road is definitely becoming more commercial and I have deep feelings for the neighbors in that area. We fight the same battle in south Richmond County all the time. But its close to Riverwatch and the ability for this property to perhaps be used in a way that would be less detrimental, if you can put it that way, if zoned as requested today, I think would be a better way to go than to just leave it there and hope that nothing bad happens in the future. Mr. Mayor, I’m just going to support, I’d like to support the zoning for these properties. Are we taking both of these at the same time? Mr. Mayor: Well, we can, unless we see some reason to split the two. But if we have a motion to approve both of these items, then we can take it that way. Mr. Speaker; [inaudible] Mr. Mayor: Just a moment. [inaudible] Commissioner, see if he’s going to make a motion or [inaudible]. Mr. Cheek: I’m just, I’m concerned, I don’t want, like the neighbors I don’t want to see us intrude into the neighborhood, but I do think the corner there [inaudible] we need to look at. I guess I’m trying to look at a win-win situation here. Mr. Mayor: All right, we’ll continue discussion. Mr. Brown, you wanted to make a comment? 31 Mr. Brown: Yes, sir. Let me, my theory is as Riverwatch [inaudible]. And as that occurs, you know, this property right here [inaudible] and this part is going to be, too. And my theory is that you have the highest density of [inaudible] intersections, and as you move back toward Residential, you step down [inaudible]. And that’s what we’re doing. We’re going from B-1, I mean a B-2 to B-1 [inaudible]. And we’ve agreed to put on record how we are going to design these buildings in perpetuity. And then also, you know, we want to put a sidewalk in our development [inaudible] to give access to the park and people that want to travel Mayo Road and enjoy that atmosphere back there. But on that note, I talked to George and I know the [inaudible] going down Mayo Road. We asked for five lots [inaudible]. We’re willing to give up the two that abut Residential. There’s a pond right there that we’re willing to stop at the pond, which makes a natural buffer between Professional to the corner and Residential that continues down Mayo Road. I don’t really know if we could even develop that lot with the pond on it. It doesn’t have a dam. It’s just a natural wet weather pond in there. And then there’s two – there’s one lot there, then there’s another lot before you reach Mr. Fleming’s property, and with that on the Professional [inaudible]. I think that is pretty complementary of the neighborhood and the style of the neighborhood and sets a, sets a sense of stability and permanency. I mean this won’t change. [inaudible] Mr. Mayor: Let me ask you a question, if I could, Steve. Mr. Brown: Okay. Mr. Mayor: The item as it relates to the P-1 zoning, the way it’s presented to us today, is that for five lots or – you just said – Mr. Brown: We did request five. We agreed to delete two. Mr. Mayor: Is that the request before us that’s on the agenda, Mr. Patty? Is that the five lots? Mr. Patty: That would be all the frontage on Mayo Road, with the exception of the 306’ requested for Commercial zoning. That was the request and presented to as denial from the Planning Commission. Mr. Mayor: Denial of the original request. Mr. Boyles. Mr. Boyles: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, for the purpose of keeping item 25 and 26 separated, because apparently that’s a change in item 26. I’d like to move that the Commission deny item 25. Mr. Mayor: Is there a second to that motion to deny item number 25? Mr. Colclough: Second. 32 Mr. Mayor: We have a second from Mr. Colclough. Is there any further discussion? We’ll take up the motion on 25 to deny that one. We’ll continue discussion on that. Mr. Bridges. Mr. Bridges: The 25 is the two acres, is that right? Now what you just passed around, is that what you are going to put on the corner? Mr. Brown: The first. Mr. Bridges: The very first one that went around? Mr. Brown: [inaudible] Mr. Bridges: Okay. Mr. Brown: That’s professional architectural design. Mr. Bridges: George, if I could, what was the reasoning of the board or the staff in recommending the corner here but denying the balance back there? Mr. Patty: Well, the staff’s position was that you should follow the Plan that would zone anything within 500’ of the center of the intersection, and that included the corner, two acres for Commercial and would include part, but not all of the Professional. It would have included 154’ of the area they requested Professional for. The Planning Commission felt that – one Planning Commissioner questioned whether Mayo Road is in fact a major street. One Planning Commissioner pointed out that there’s houses right across from the area requested Professional, and that makes a difference. And frankly, some of them were just reluctant to zone it Professional. Zone part of the lot, but not all of it. They [inaudible] all or not and therefore they voted against it. Mr. Bridges: Right now it’s Residential; right? The corner is? Mr. Patty: Yes, sir. Mr. Bridges: And maybe I’m looking at what I was thinking about earlier here with what this gentleman passed out, but I thought we had an ordinance that said any intersection that’s not now developed commercially we would not develop commercially. Is that in the Master Plan or what is that? Mr. Patty: Let me read you what the Plan says. Mr. Bridges: Okay. Mr. Patty: You know, if you remember the ’95 Plan, it was adopted before consolidation. You have neighborhood planning areas for the neighborhoods. The west Augusta neighborhood planning area that is the pertinent section is as follows: number 33 (c) “Discourage commercialization of arterials and collectors where commercial development is not established, except at major intersections, including but not limited to the following.” And one of those is Stevens Creek Road, and it goes on to say “commercial zoning on such transportation facilities should be limited to an area within 500’ of the center of the intersection or a strip no more than 300’ in depth.” There are two factors here. One, is it established now? And like I said, the two similarly-situated properties are zoned Commercial. The second factor is, is it a major street? I think that’s an arguable point, but like I say, you’ve already got the Commercial, and you know, it’s definitely a collector street. It’s not an arterial, but it’s definitely a collector street with other streets running into it. Mr. Bridges: Okay. So we really don’t have an ordinance which says the, where the intersection’s at, if it’s not Commercial now – we don’t have that? Mr. Patty: No. Mr. Bridges: That’s not out there. Okay. Mr. Patty: You’ve got a Plan that consist of policies that try to fit, that give you guidance, gentle guidance for specific situations. You’ve got to interpret that Plan. Mr. Bridges: What’s the highest and best use for that corner there? Mr. Patty: Commercial. C-1. Mr. Bridges: And that’s the staff’s recommendation? Mr. Patty: Yes. Mr. Bridges: I sympathize with the neighborhood and everything and I certainly – I mean the way the Committee, the Commission has come out and recommended these, I can understand the reasoning for it. I wouldn’t want to have a home at the corner of Stevens Creek and Mayo, either, but I haven’t made my decision yet. Mr. Mayor, was there a proposal to place this back for further consideration? Mr. Mayor: It was a suggestion to discuss from Commissioner Shepard to let staff take a look at this with respect to the transportation issues, the traffic signal and so forth. Mr. Bridges: I make it in the form of a motion for both items. Mr. Mayor 25 and 26? Mr. Bridges: 25 and 26. Mr. Mayor: Okay. 34 Mr. Shepard: I’ll second that. Mr. Mayor: And your substitute motion would have the effect of this come back at the next Commission meeting? Mr. Bridges: That would be correct. Mr. Mayor: We have a substitute motion. Is there any discussion on the substitute motion? Mr. Mays. Mr. Mays: Mr. Mayor, in reference to both motions, has there been any meeting with the residents/objectors and the petitioner in this plan for both of these items already? Mr. Brown: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor: You have? Mr. Brown: In length. I haven’t met with all the people, but I was here – if you want me to speak, I’ll speak. Mr. Mayor: I want you to speak. I want you to answer Mr. Mays’ question as fully as you can. Mr. Brown: I mean I – we came here – I did this on our best effort. I talked to George. We asked him, we had this property, what was the Planning Commission [inaudible]. It’s not our intention at all, when we first started this endeavor, to any way have a negative impact on this neighborhood at all. And we developed these ideas, these concepts, we’re willing to put something in writing, something that’s recordable, that creates something that someone cannot come back and change. I spoke to Ms. Stewart at length. I went by to see her. I spoke to David at length. I spoke to Mr. Cromer twice, who lives across the street. I mean I don’t know what else I can do. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Mays. Mr. Mays: Mr. Mayor, what I’m, what I’m observing is that – and I’m – if Ulmer’s motion does not pass, I’m going to vote for Tommy’s. But what I was looking at is that I think it’s good when you send these things back, it’s good for the professionals who consider what changes may happen or may not happen, but I think it really falls upon deaf ears to a point that if all the affected people are not in the same room at the same time. Now that’s not to say that when they get in the room at the same time that they are going to reach an agreement. I’ve seen it come back to a point, some times compromises are made, some things are put in, and then everybody lives happily ever after. Then some times, nothing changes. But I think certainly if it’s going to be sent back and this body cannot make folks meet, but I think if you’re going to send it back, then I think there needs to be an organized effort to meet with everybody that’s 35 concerned, so that the issues of traffic, the aesthetics of it, the things that Mr. Brown wants to do, the things that they are totally concerned about in that area, if that’s going to be done, I think that they maybe need to before – once a vote is taken, if the substitute motion passes, then I think they can have something, and particularly if that’s the last zoning item that’s there, I know Mr. Patty likes to play referee on special occasions. And it might be a good idea if that’s set to a point that a meeting date or proposed meeting date or two can be set to where these two groups can come together and discuss all the issues that are there. If they are not worked out, obviously in two weeks we’ll be back and we’ll vote it up or down on both items, 25 and 26. But I think to send it back and look at professional things on there, those are good things to do, but when they involve people, you’ve got to put them in the process and get a mindset of everybody that’s concerned. Because I think on Mr. Brown’s part, I think you’ve got honorable people on both sides of this issue. But I think that immediately when the question went up, there was already to a point friendly disagreement and everybody had not been in the same room together. So I think that in itself would lead me if you’re going to do a substitute motion then I think George, maybe when we [inaudible] if that motion passes, cause it may fail and it may be denied on both of them, but if the one to send it on is passed, then I think to be able to gather before they leave, [inaudible] so that they can get together, and then if that doesn’t happen then we’ll be back here and let us vote it up or down. That’s just my only suggestion and observance, Mr. Mayor, on how we’ve done these type of situations before. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Mays. Mr. Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And just to kind of follow on what Commissioner Mays has said, I’d like to at least include language, if the maker of the substitute motion will allow it, to strongly urge the neighbors and Mr. Brown to get together and try to come to some terms and I would offer that with a word of caution, that there are things that will be coming to that area in the future and that when a few of your neighbors move away, and there is less of a force to fight change, you may get something you are quite unhappy with, versus something that may, you may be able to compromise with and come up that is in fact a benefit to your community with sidewalks and other things. So I do encourage you to at least take a look and discuss this thing and see if there are some common grounds, grounds available that you can come to, to both preserve your neighborhood and put something on that corner that is going to be beneficial and protected for the long term. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Kolb. Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor, if I understand the motion correctly, you gave us until the next Commission meeting to do it. Mr. Mayor: Two weeks. Mr. Kolb: We would like 30 days. We don’t believe that we can do an adequate -- at best, we can only give you our best guess as to what the transportation 36 issues would be. We would like a little more time to actually look at it and take more study time. Mr. Mayor: Steve, how long, how would 30 days affect you? Mr. Brown: That’s fine. I mean whatever they wish. I’d just like to make one comment to Mr. Cheek and Mr. Mays. Mr. Mayor: You wouldn’t have any objection? Mr. Brown: No, I wouldn’t. I’ve talked to these people, and I understand their concern. I’ve been there. And I’m there. But they want single-family residential. That’s it. That’s all they want. And I don’t believe that what we’re proposing here is going to have any at all, any adverse effect on their privacy, on their right to enjoy their property whatsoever. If it did, I wouldn’t be here. I would not be here today to try to help out Courtney and her two sisters on this property. And if I thought it was bad for Richmond County, I wouldn’t be here. I was born in Richmond County. I take pride in where I’m born. And I’m trying to do what we think is best for this neighborhood. And that’s our concern, and that’s what we are trying to do. We’re putting all of this in writing, we’re guaranteeing it, we’re giving our word. We’re not just giving you our word, we’re giving it to you in writing. We’re willing to follow the guidelines of the county. And it’s a simple issue, whether it’s going to remain single-family or if they are going to have something that is going to be compatible with the future of this neighborhood. That’s the issue. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Bridges. Have you got anything else? Mr. Bridges: Well, I was just going to say, as far as making that motion, I was going to incorporate the 30 days as well as the meeting between the developer and the neighborhood, too. Mr. Mayor: Anything else? Mr. Beard: Mr. Mayor, I call for the question. Mr. Mayor: All right. One final word from Mr. Cheek and we’ll proceed with the -- I’m sorry, Mr. Williams, did you have your hand up? I didn’t want to pass over you. Mr. Williams: I yield. Mr. Mayor: Go ahead, Mr. Cheek and then we’ll go to Mr. Williams. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Brown, I fully understand and agree. We live with places where people have come into south Richmond County and did not care, that would not put it in writing, in fact misled us in many occasions. And this is a case of where we all recognize 37 where Riverwatch and Stevens Creek are going to become commercial corridors sooner or later, and I just, I think sometimes for a pause and perhaps just in time to think this through it’s an opportunity, as you said, to get something that is guaranteed and in writing and would be better than many of the storage units or other things that come, which are right up the street from this, which would be an ugly addition to that general area. There are some run-down convenience stores stacked along those roads and things, and this is a chance to perhaps get something very nice that would be stable and for the long term guaranteed, and that’s something we’ve never seen in south Richmond County and would love to have. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I’ve been very quiet, but I wanted just to add a couple of comments. And I listened to everybody quite attentively and I’m sensitive to the neighbors and their objections, but our statistics has shown that Augusta has grown 5% over some period of years. We’re talking about traffic, but every day Augusta is growing. And if we going grow, if we going be an effective community, change is going to take place. And I understand again the neighbors coming down, not wanting stuff in their front yards and not wanting something that’s going to decrease the value of their homes in their neighborhoods. But when you got somebody who is trying to bring something positive and something that’s fitting in that community, I think we need to sit down and at least talk and at least try to get some understanding from each other. We’re talking about the traffic issue. The traffic is growing every day in Augusta. There are several different areas that need traffic signals that we have not signalized. We talk about how much the cost is, but you can’t grow and stay the same size. You’ve got to expand when you grow. Some of it you like, some of it you don’t like. If you meet the guidelines, if you meet the guidelines of the law, we going to have to bite our teeth and hold our tongue and just do whatever is right. But I think the motion is good that we going to go back and at least sit and talk and at least try to find out some of the pros and cons. Maybe there are some compromises that could be made that everybody be pleased with. What Commissioner Cheek said earlier, it could be a situation where something is coming in, fast food store or something of that nature, that you really don’t want, that really going to cause a congestion and going cause unsightly signs and stuff going in there. What I say, I would welcome in my neighborhood, trust me. But I mean my neighborhood needs some improvement in every aspect of this community, but I just think that it’s a good motion, I think that we ought to support that, I think if that 30 days not going to affect Mr. Brown, that give them time to look at it and see. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Beard has called the question. The Chair will rule there has been adequate debate on the motion, the substitute motion which would bring this back to us in 30 days. All in favor of that motion, please vote in the affirmative. (Vote on substitute motion) Mr. Boyles, Mr. Colclough and Mr. Hankerson vote No. Motion carries 7-3. 38 Mr. Mayor: Mr. Kolb, would you have staff please facilitate an opportunity for these groups to get together and talk about this? Mr. Boyles: Mr. Mayor, I’d like to know when that meeting is, too, cause I’d like to be there. Mr. Mayor: All right. All right, let’s take up -- Mr. Wall: So that we don’t have run another notice, would that be August 19 that this would come back before the Commission, so that those that are here would know when -- that would be the second meeting? Mr. Mayor: Second meeting in August? Mr. Wall: Second meeting in August. Mr. Mayor: Okay. August 19. We’ll get word to Ms. Stewart, and I’m sure Fran will let everybody know. (Laughter) Mr. Mayor: What we’d like to do is go back to item number 6, which Mr. Colclough asked be pulled from the consent agenda. And I think that will be our last zoning request. Madame Clerk, if you’ll read the caption, please. The Clerk: 6. Z-03-54 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Maureen Ruiz requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a Family Day Care Home per Section 26-1 (F) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County affecting property located at 2033 Bassford Drive and containing .37 acres. (Tax Map 164 Parcel 65) DISTRICT 4 Mr. Mayor: Mr. Colclough. Mr. Colclough: Mr. Patty. Mr. Patty: Yes, sir? Mr. Colclough: Is there another day care home on Bassford? Mr. Patty: Not according to our records. We keep a [inaudible], with all of these that are approved and licensed by us on it, and I assume if there was, License & Inspection would be on it. 39 Mr. Colclough: Ask License & Inspection then. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Sherman. Rob Sherman. Rob, we have a question from Commissioner Colclough for you. Mr. Colclough: Rob, is there another family day care on Bassford? Mr. Sherman: Bassford? The Clerk: Bassford. B-A-S-S- Mr. Colclough: F-O-R-D. Bassford Road. Mr. Sherman: I would have to check into it. I don’t know. Mr. Colclough: You don’t know? Mr. Sherman: Bassford? Mr. Colclough: Yes, sir. Mr. Sherman: Have you asked me about this before? Mr. Colclough: No, sir, I’m asking you now. Another family day care. Mr. Mayor: Let’s -- Mr. Sherman, if you don’t know, let’s do this. The Chair is going to take a recess anyway. Let’s take a recess now and you can call your office, and when we come back we can resume discussion of this item. A five minute recess. [RECESS] Mr. Mayor: It’s after recess. Mr. Colclough, you have the floor and you had a question for Mr. Sherman. Mr. Colclough: Mr. Mayor, I found my answer, so I don’t need Mr. Sherman to I’m going to make a answer it. But what I’m going to do – I may not get a second, but motion that we deny this request for a family day care. Mr. Mayor: Motion to deny item number 5, then. Is there a second to that motion? Mr. Bridges: Second. Mr. Mayor: Okay, the petitioner is here and we’d like to hear from the petitioner, Ms. Ruiz. 40 Ms. Ruiz: I would like to know why it was denied. I would like to know why it is being denied, sir. Mr. Mayor: Well, it hasn’t been denied. Ms. Ruiz: Oh. Mr. Mayor: There’s just been a motion, so if you would like to speak as to why it should be approved or not denied, this is your opportunity to speak. Ms. Ruiz: Yes, sir. I am [inaudible] family day care in my home because of my small children, give me the opportunity to raise them myself rather than put them in a commercial place or someone else’s home day care. And also give me a chance – my husband has been diagnosed with an illness. It give me a chance to be home and take care of him as well. And I just love doing my job, taking care of small kids and you know, raising them and instilling morals and given them that personal and tender care that they don’t get at home, because they with me so many hours, by the time they go home it’s time to go to bed. And like I say, my reason for this is that I am able to take care of my own children, cause the school bus stop is right in front of my house. Where they get off the bus. And you know, I get a chance to work from home. Mr. Mayor: Ms. Ruiz, are you caring for children in your home who are not residents of that home now? Ms. Ruiz: Would you repeat the question, please? Mr. Mayor: Are you caring in your home for children who are not residents of that home? Ms. Ruiz: That is correct, sir. Mr. Mayor: How many children are you caring for there now? Ms. Ruiz: I have six children. Mr. Mayor: You have six? Okay. Mr. Colclough: Those your own? Ms. Ruiz: I’m sorry? Mr. Colclough: Of your own? Ms. Ruiz: Two of my own. Mr. Mayor: And four come from outside your home? 41 Ms. Ruiz: No, no. I have six from [inaudible]. My kids are in school. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Ms. Ruiz: Right. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor, first of all, I’d like to know the answer to the question that Rob was supposed to been trying to come back and bring to Commissioner Colclough and then I will continue it. Mr. Colclough: The two streets are similar, but the names are different. One is Basswood and the other is Bassford. Mr. Williams: So that means there’s not another day care? Mr. Colclough: Not on Bassford. Mr. Sherman: I checked with the ladies down at the office and we do not have a business license for anything on Bassford. Mr. Williams: Thank you. I just wanted to find out what the outcome was to that question. I was in Planning & Zoning and I told the young lady to look for some opposition today because of the guidelines. Out of 159 counties in this State of Georgia, we’re the only ones that directing or administering license to do family day care. The lady had no objectors at Planning & Zoning and I don’t think we have any now this afternoon, Mr. Mayor. But my thing is that she’s coming and asking for a license to be, to be a family day care in the neighborhood. I understand about the neighborhoods and we can talk a great extent about neighborhoods but if she was talking about putting up a big sign or any kind of sign for that matter, if she talking about putting up sliding boards and different stuff to change the structure of the neighborhood as to make it look bad with playgrounds equipment, I can understand us denying it. But for the life of me, I cannot figure out why when people come to try to better themselves and to help children – you know, at last [inaudible] meeting we talked about the alcohol sale to minors and met a lady at the bank today who talked about how young people are going astray because people are not training and raising children any more. And that’s our biggest problems with our youth. But when a person comes to this board and wants to be licensed to have a business and not change the structure, and with no opposition, we make a motion to deny it? I mean I’ve got a serious problem with that now. If there was some objectors, then I may still be able to see why you denying. But somebody need to tell me before we go any further why are we making a motion and why we won’t support a home business whose not a rental but a home business who we can put stipulations. George, help me out, now. We can put stipulation in that says that they won’t, they can’t change the structure of their home as far as signs and playground equipment; is that right? 42 Mr. Mayor: Let me do this. Since you’re asking about why we deny it, and I think that’s an appropriate question for the maker of the motion to answer for you. Mr. Williams: Okay. Mr. Mayor: [inaudible] and if that doesn’t satisfy you, then we’ll go to some other people. Mr. Colclough; Well, Commissioner Williams, the reason why I made the motion is that I think that commercial businesses in neighborhoods are not the place for them. We have commercial zones and I would applaud the young lady if she would have a building in a commercial zone where she could have a family day care. A home is someplace where someone invested their money in to be able to live in, in a neighborhood without commercialization. And that is the reason why I made the motion to deny this application. Mr. Williams: Okay, Mr. Colclough, I can understand that, but tell me how many small businesses that you know that can afford a [inaudible] go down and rent a building and open up a business downtown. Now if they going have 25 children and they got a large facility, I can understand that. But you talking about a small neighborhood situation. Mr. Colclough: We do have stipulations at Planning & Zoning where it says that you can keep your own kids plus two kids of somebody else’s without a license. That is in the rules and regulations of our ordinance. Any more than that, you are going into a commercial type business. Mr. Williams: I think the ordinance reads that you can keep six unrelated. They don’t have to be her children personally. They can be related. Be cousins, grandmother’s sister’s brother’s child, uncle’s children, as long as they are related she can have six of those and her own children and not – and then two being unrelated, I believe, is that right, George? Mr. Patty: Actually, she can have as many related as she can get in the house plus two unrelated. Mr. Williams: Okay. Okay. Mr. Patty: By special exception that allows her to have six unrelated in addition to whoever else is there. Mr. Williams: And my saying, my saying, these are young business people who are coming to try to better themselves, to help the community. There are people who need this service in the community. Now if my mind don’t fail me if I go back to some years ago, people like her had to leave her house to go to somebody else house to take 43 care of somebody else children while they worked. But now what she’s doing now is rather than leave her house to go to somebody else house to watch their children, she watching them, other people’s children, at her own house. This ain’t just got started. This been ever since the beginning time. People been watching other people’s children. And, and, and I think they ought to be commended, I think it’s something that she ought to be proud of, she ain’t on welfare, she ain’t coming in here begging and asking us to do something for her. She’s only asking for a license that we can regulate, that we know what’s going on, and we going to get revenue from. But if we see here and deny this one, along with some more been denied, and I told her in Planning that if she didn’t have any objectors, to look for trouble cause going to be trouble when she got here today. And the first thing we did was, before we heard her case, was offer to deny her license today. And Planning & Zoning passed it, she met all the guidelines. What do we have these guidelines for, George, if we put them out there and people meet them, then we come in here as Commissioners and we turn them back? I can save some time cause I’m on Planning. I don’t have to come to that meeting and then to have some approved and then come in here and we turn it down. [inaudible] I mean either the rules shouldn’t be in effect at all, we ought to tell them don’t come, and they are out there, many out there that we don’t know about that [inaudible] we can’t keep a record of. So, Mr. Mr. Mayor, I’m going to make a substitute motion that we approve this lady, who don’t have any objectors and don’t have anybody to oppose her, approve her in giving her a license with the stipulations there that she cannot put a sign, that she cannot change the interior or the exterior of her home to present, to make it look like a day care, it should look like the home that it looks like now. So I may not get a second on that, but that’s my motion, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Let’s see if there is a second. Mr. Mays: I’ll second it. Mr. Mayor: There’s a second to that motion. We have a substitute motion to approve with stipulation. Mr. Colclough, you wanted the floor again. Mr. Colclough: I was going to explain to Mr. Williams, I came down here five years ago and there were no rules and regulations that Planning & Zoning had. I was part of that group that helped to facilitate the rules and regulations that we have in place now where we can keep neighborhoods as neighborhoods, commercial as commercial. So I remember when I came here that there was no rules and no regulations that govern anything in this town. Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor, thank you, if I can respond to that. Mr. Mayor: One minute, Mr. Williams, you need to be recognized. Mr. Williams: Well, yes, sir, I need to respond to what he just said, thought, because – 44 Mr. Mayor: Well, y’all can just keep going back and forth here and not give anybody else a chance to speak. Now let me recognize you and I will recognize you. Mr. Williams: Okay. Mr. Mayor: Give me a chance to recognize you. Go ahead, Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: Okay, Mr. Mayor. I’m glad he, Mr. Colclough, said that because if he was a part of making the rules that Planning & Zoning have, then something is wrong with him coming to denying it cause he know what the rules said in Planning & Zoning. He said he’s a part of when they made it. Mr. Mayor: Let me ask a question of Mr. Patty. Do the rules permit her to have signage in front of her home if this is approved? Mr. Patty: No. Mr. Mayor: Okay. So you don’t need to put that in the motion then. Mr. Bridges, you had your hand up. Mr. Bridges: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, I think this is a clear issue of a business, a commercial business going into a neighborhood, and I always try and look at this package that the Planning Commission presents. And this is, every lot there is less than an acre that’s a residence, and then we make a special exception to place a business in the middle of residential area. And it’s like Mr. Colclough said, when you go home at night you don’t want – or in the evening or day time, any 24 hours, you’re there for a residential purpose. You don’t want a business, you don’t want traffic, you don’t want anything. And to establish a special exception for one business, establish a special exception for the next one, to use that as a practice to establish another one. Now I don’t think it’s proper for a neighborhood, particularly one that’s just, it’s nothing but strictly residential, just you know, one acre homes throughout the area. And we’ve denied these in the past. It’s been our common practice and policy, just as a policy established by practice, to deny commercial businesses in residential areas, and I think we should uphold the motion. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and I have to also concur with Commissioner Bridges and Colclough. And just further make a point here. Item 5 that we have put on hold – I’ve driven up the street several times and much of the time is single-lane traffic under normal conditions without adding a business to that. Apparently the Zoning & Planning board did not, board members did not go down and take a look-see for themselves. But the introduction of the business, a business, increases traffic in the neighborhood, has to be dependent upon the conditions in that neighborhood, and as Commissioner Bridges has pointed out, these are smaller lots. It’s a high density development as it is. Adding additional traffic to that area is detrimental on top of the 45 fact that when you introduce a commercial business, a for-profit business into a residential neighborhood, you change the nature of the neighborhood. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Mays. Mr. Mays: Yes, Mr. Mayor, let me just say this real quickly. The rules are there and what is going to get into a very confusing state, I think if we, if we are going to – and I’m looking lately – we’ve had a large percentage of reversals lately on – whether it be day care for children, whether it’s adult sitting, or even to a point of personal care homes. Let’s be real honest about something. We’ve not been going by just what the rules say. Now, gentlemen, let’s be, let’s be real truthful now, what we’ve been going by is that we’ve let the rules make a basis for establishment and then if there are objectors from the area that are overwhelming, and I think all of us to a person have been supportive of what the neighborhood wants, whether it’s from the river or whether it’s past the south side of Tobacco Road. Now that’s been the real rule. Hadn’t been the rule that’s been written. It’s been the rule that if folks show up, it gets turned down. Now we ought to go with the fairness of the rule that we’ve been doing. If it goes through one board, nobody objects, if it comes to us, nobody objects, then we ought to apply the fairness of the spirit of the rule. Because sometimes we’ve had people to come in where actually people have been supportive in an area to say I want this person to keep my child, and they come in and they do it. Different strokes for different folks. All neighborhoods don’t want the same thing. All neighborhood may not have the same [inaudible]. So I think when we say that, all of us want to be fair to the neighborhood. I think [inaudible] when we getting neighborhood folk come down, sign petitions saying we don’t want things in the neighborhood even where zoning may have approved it, we’ve turned them down. I think that’s fair game because we’ve helped the neighborhood. But when they come in to a point that the objectors are not there, and then the objectors are not there when they come to this body, then we ought to have a certain standard of fairness [inaudible] objectors, not the written portion of the rules. The objectors are what we gauge our support by or our lack of support. So you know, that kind of [inaudible] itself. That’s [inaudible] we been voting. So I think when zero objectors show up at two meetings and you have a legitimate situation that’s on the books, now if we want to outlaw it and telling Planning & Zone we are not going to have any and [inaudible] determined by law whether we ought to be hearing them or not, then I think we get into another category. But I think the rule of thumb that we’ve been using basically has been the spirit of the law, based on objectors that have been there, and that’s what has determined whether we’ve [inaudible] things up or down. I think that’s where we’ve been going, if we really want to be fair about it. That’s what we’ve been doing. And that’s why I second the motion. Mr. Mayor: Anything further? We have to approve – the substitute motion is to approve it. Call the question on that. All in favor --- Mr. Mays: Any objectors, for the record, Mr. Mayor? 46 Mr. Mayor: For the record, any objectors? None are noted. All in favor of the substitute motion to approve this, please vote in the affirmative. Ms. Ruiz: Can I say something? Mr. Mayor: No, ma’am, we’re voting now. Just a moment. (Vote on substitute motion) Mr. Bridges, Mr. Kuhlke, Mr. Cheek, Mr. Hankerson, Mr. Boyles and Mr. Colclough vote No. Motion fails 4-6. Mr. Mayor: That takes us back to the original motion. Mr. Bridges: Would you call those names off again, Madame Clerk? The Clerk: I have Mr. Beard voting yes, Mr. Marion Williams, Mr. Willie Mays and Mr. Shepard voting yes. Voting no I have Mr. Bridges, Mr. Colclough, Mr. Kuhlke, Mr. Cheek, Mr. Hankerson and Mr. Boyles. Mr. Mayor: I thought it was 6-4. Mr. Wall: [inaudible] Mr. Mayor: That’s why you’re the Attorney and not the Finance Director. (Laughter) Mr. Mayor: That motion is defeated. That takes us back to the original motion, which was to deny this. Now if you wanted to be heard, I’ll allow you to be heard. Ms. Ruiz: Thank you. I apologize for interrupting. Mr. Mayor: Yes, ma’am. Ms. Ruiz: There’s a beauty salon a few houses down from me. How would affect that, because that really draws a lot of traffic, where as with my business, my parents come, drop the kids off and they leave. There is no cars hanging around, there is no traffic at all. And the beauty salon is six houses, across the street, down to the front of the road. Go to the main road. Beauty salon. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. George, I need to get you to do something for me. Will you tell us how many unrelated children again she can have without a license? 47 Mr. Patty: Two. Mr. Williams: Two unrelated children. How many related children can she have without a license? Mr. Patty: However many she can get in the house. Mr. Williams: Okay, thank you. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Cheek. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Patty, how does one substantiate relationship? Is that cousins – Mr. Patty: We give them a blood test. (Laughter) Mr. Cheek: In all seriousness. I mean I know it’s probably never been really challenged. I’ve got houses full of cousins, uncles, brothers, nephews and stuff. You know, 50 people living in a three-bedroom house [inaudible] dealt with. Ms. Ruiz: How do I tell my parents – they – Mr. Mayor: Just a minute. Let him answer the question. Mr. Sherman. Mr. Sherman: We would have to go to the door and we would have to ask are these individual related. Regardless of how many they’re keeping there, if they’re in the business to generate a profit, they are required to get a business license. Mr. Mayor: The question was how, what criteria do you use to determine whether somebody is related? Mr. Sherman: We have to ask. Mr. Mayor: How far out do your relations go? Members of the immediate family. Mr. Sherman: [inaudible] Mr. Patty: I’ll be honest with you. I can’t give you the answer. It goes to a certain point, though. How you, other than their testimony, how you make that determination I don’t now. 48 Mr. Cheek: I’ve got 15 people living in a three-bedroom house right now that are supposedly related that aren’t. And really, it’s a serious question maybe we’ll get answered later. But there needs to be an investigative mechanism to determine that. Mr. Sherman: Well, we go with the definition under the zoning ordinance. Family and two unrelated individuals. Mr. Cheek: But if everybody is a cousin and nobody challenges it, I mean they’re all family. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Bridges. Mr. Bridges: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Rob, are you familiar with a beauty parlor in the neighborhood that she’s talking about? Is that a licensed one? Mr. Sherman: I’m not familiar with it. I’ve got a note to check it. If there’s a beauty parlor out there, we’ll check [inaudible] license. Mr. Bridges: Please check that. I mean, you know, another Commission may have done something different, but you know, this one does not [inaudible] at the time but I’d just like that checked. Mr. Sherman: We can do that. Mr. Mayor: Find the relatives, Mr. Patty? Mr. Patty: What is says is a group of one or two persons whose parents – this is definition of family – [inaudible] parents or their direct descendants [inaudible] adopted children (including the domestic employees thereof) – in this case, you can’t have any employees so that’s moot – together with not more than two person not so related. So it’s their direct descendants, so I would guess that would mean their children and step- children, adopted children, and grandchildren. Mr. Williams: And adopted. Okay. Do it all the time. Mr. Cheek: I mean do we require a burden on the citizen or is that on the City? [inaudible] Mr. Sherman: I would imagine we would end up in Magistrate Court. Mr. Williams: Exactly right. Mr. Speaker: Mr. Mayor, could you call the question? Mr. Mayor: Mr. Williams, you had a final comment before we vote on the motion here? 49 Mr. Williams: Yes, the guidelines says that she meets all the guidelines, we have been in court with this several times, not just with this but with other similar situations that we passed the guidelines on. I would hate to see us sit here sit here now with -- Ms. Ruiz: [inaudible] Mr. Mayor: One more outburst and I’m going to have to ask you to leave the chambers while we decide this. Okay? Thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: Thank you. The guidelines say they meet the guidelines that we have had, other cases come in here where we have denied them, they met the guidelines, they carried us to court, we end up paying them and their attorneys. I’m just hoping that we got more sense as Commissioners to be good stewards of the community’s money and not have these people go to court and then come back and we have to pay them for going into business and maybe building that building that Commissioner Colclough was talking about earlier. That’s all I have, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Williams. The question has been called. The Chair will rule there has been adequate debate on the motion from Mr. Colclough, and that is to deny this petition. All in favor of the motion to deny, please vote in the affirmative. (Vote on original motion) Mr. Beard, Mr. Williams, Mr. Kuhlke and Mr. Mays vote No. Motion carries 6-4. Mr. Mayor: Madame Clerk, I believe that takes us to item number 28. You want to read the caption, and then we’ll hear from Mr. Wall. The Clerk: ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES: 28. Update from the Attorney regarding amendment of the Administrator’s contract. (Requested by Commissioner Williams) Mr. Wall: I have had several conversation with Mr. Bill [inaudible], who represents the Administrator, and I have forwarded to him some proposed language as he requested. I have made two telephone calls since I was asked about this matter and since it’s been on the agenda, and I called again this morning prior to coming over here, trying to get a response. But at this point, I have not had a formal response from him, so I’ll continue to follow up with that. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Jim, we been, we’ve been waiting on this for quite some now. I understand about the call this morning and recent contact, but if I 50 can make it in the form of a motion that we have something back at committee meeting to give us a deadline on the Administrator’s contract as to when we should, when we have to renew that, when that’s supposed to be in effect. We had several contracts. And I got a problem with some of these contracts that been written, and we talked about them, but I’d like to make it in the form of a motion that we get a, in committee meeting, a designated date, along with the other things we supposed to have gotten, but a designated date as to when we have to renew the Administrator’s contract or we going to default. Default meaning that we have to go ahead and extend it. If we got to do something, we need a drop dead date. Mr. Wall: December 31. Mr. Williams: Okay, well, I need that [inaudible] committee that we got to renew his contract on or before December 31. Mr. Mayor: That’s correct. Mr. Williams: Okay, well, I just, I been asking for that and I been asking for the issue about [inaudible] but we have not got back on any of that. But that – Mr. Wall: I wasn’t aware that you had asked me. I mean I told those who had asked me that question. Mr. Williams: Okay, well, update from the Attorney regarding the Administrator’s contract was several things, but that was one of them. And I didn’t know that date, but we need to know what that drop dead date was, and you’re saying it’s December – st Mr. Wall: 31. st Mr. Williams: 31. Okay, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Al right. Thank you. Mr. Bridges. Mr. Bridges: Jim, I’m not familiar with any amendment to the contract. What are we – I didn’t see anything at all in the backup. Mr. Wall: Well, I was instructed to try to negotiate an amendment to the contract to deal with the physical examination. Mr. Bridges: By the Commission? Mr. Wall: Yes. Mr. Bridges: When did that take place? 51 Mr. Wall: In April. Mr. Williams: April? I think it was before, Mr. Mayor, if I can. I think it was before April, but regardless of the time – Mr. Wall: [inaudible] April. Mr. Williams: Okay, regardless of the time, that was something we had asked him to go back and come back to us and present to us, but we had not had that, Mr. Bridges. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Beard? Mr. Beard: I guess I’m trying to find out what’s going on here at this point. I was about to second the motion that he was making, that [inaudible]. I think that there need to be some discussion on this because – and maybe it’s my fault that I’ve missed some meetings in this event. But I think at some point we need to discuss this among the body, whether it’s in legal or wherever, bring back some information. And maybe that needs to be cleared. And I’m going to suggest that – not in the form of a motion at this point, but [inaudible] – but maybe at some point we all go over that contract in legal and get a clear understanding of what, what is expected of the Administrator, what is expected of this body. Probably not, I don’t know the time line but possibly at the next meeting we can go into legal or one of the committee meetings next week, could possibly go into a legal session and discuss this, either through Administrative Services or the Finance [inaudible] update and give us an opportunity to ask some questions that some of who have. And it may be a minority of us up here that don’t know, but I think we need that at this time. Mr. Williams: [inaudible] motion, Mr. Beard, I mean I can. I mean I was going to [inaudible] but if we need to, we can have that in the form a motion to have it brought back to committee, next Commission meeting, go to legal. Mr. Mayor: Put it on the committee agenda. Mr. Williams: Well, we can do it that way. Mr. Mayor: In fact, Mr. Wall, I would ask that you send each Commissioner here another copy [inaudible], go ahead and send them a copy of Mr. Kolb’s contract, so he can look over it before the meeting. Then everybody would have the benefit of what the contract says and the time lines spelled out in the contract. Mr. Williams: Now we’re talking about contract, Mr. Mayor, now [inaudible] committee. I mean legal. Y’all want to do it in committee on the floor? It’s fine with me. Mr. Mayor: The contract is a matter of public record. 52 Mr. Williams: Okay. Well. Mr. Mayor: If everybody gets the contract ahead of time, have a chance to look over it, and then if you want to go into legal meeting to discuss – Mr. Williams: Any particularly, okay. Mr. Mayor: -- any particulars, you already have the benefit of having a copy of the contract and being able to review that. Can you do that, Mr. Wall? Mr. Wall: Certainly. Mr. Mayor: Get everybody a copy. Mr. Shepard. Mr. Shepard: I think Mr. Mays had his hand up before me. Mr. Mays: That’s okay, Mr. Mayor. I just wanted to be clear on something, and I think where the Commissioners can get information, but also in fairness to the Administrator. I just want to make sure what we’re bringing back is what is being asked. I wasn’t so much concerned myself personally as to the total contract and the wording of the contract in there, but I think if another copy of it is going to be sent back, that’s fine. But I think what needs to be done in clarity, and Commissioner Colclough can probably back me up, because he serves as the Commission’s representative on the Aviation Commission at Bush Field. Where I think some clarity needs to be, and this falls, I think, in an area, quite frankly, of nobody’s fault, but then again it needs to where it [inaudible] anybody’s fault. There was somewhat of a misunderstanding, I believe, with that contract as to what date they were supposed to be voting on a contract, whether it was on a certain date – and I was one of those Commissioners that had verbal contact with Mr. Wall. But what I think needs to be brought back, and like I said I have no problem about the contract coming back. That’s all well and good. But I think something needs to be very clear. First of all, I’ve got a little problem with December 31. There is no scheduled meeting date for December 31. That’s the first thing. So if you’re saying that, you could call a meeting on December 31 and lack of a quorum doesn’t appear in this Chambers – Mr. Wall: Before December 31. Mr. Mays: The only thing I got was the December 31. That’s the purpose of bringing it back in writing, Mr. Wall, so that on or before. But what I’m getting to, though, in fairness to Mr. Kolb, it needs to be where he agrees to what you say or the language needs to be sent to him that is – let’s say he doesn’t agree on that time frame and his not responding makes it become agreement. But I think it ought to be clear the time frame that you’re talking about within what period, be it a closure date of 7 to 10 days prior to that, 30 days prior to it, because the airport I think is what precipitated Richard’s discussion with mine, in reference to the fact where it was on a certain date. 53 And I don’t think we need to be, in fairness to the Commission and in fairness to the st Administrator, we don’t need to be [inaudible] that occurs on say the 181 day, it makes th it a moot question of what we’re talking about, or the 179 day that makes it before time. I think as long as you – that sounds good to me where you’re going, but I think you and the Administrator need to have that in agreement so that when we get it in the committee or get it in the Commission that everybody’s on the same page and that when it’s voted on in public of that being the understanding of the date that it’s going to be, then that’s the date that it’s going to be, or the dates that it’s going to be. And have a window [inaudible] that are within scheduled dates of this Commission [inaudible] result to being a called meeting to deal with it. Mr. Wall: It’s not. st Mr. Mays: And that was my first observance when you said December 31, cause if to a point where you’re talking about New Year’s Eve, nobody shows up, and then to a point where we start scrambling and everybody says well, I thought. Well, it doesn’t need to get into I thought. It needs to get in to a point of where it’s covered prior to the second meeting in December, which is the regular scheduled meeting, and I think something in that language – and whatever you and Mr. Kolb work out, I am in total agreement with. Mr. Mayor: All right, Mr. Shepard. Mr. Shepard: Mr. Mayor, I was going to make the motion that we refer this item to legal today. Mr. Mayor: We have a motion to refer this item to legal today. Is there a second to that motion? Mr. Bridges: Second. Mr. Mayor: Discussion on the motion? Yes, Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: I just got a couple of comments about – Mr. Mayor: The motion? Mr. Williams: Well, not – well, about the contract itself and the reason – and I got no problem talking about it in legal and I brought it up earlier, but the reason it was on here in the beginning is because the City has been held accountable for the contract on the City side, but on the opposite side where these contracts being written, the people that benefiting have not been held, and I just thought we need to know for sure if it’s a binding document, if it’s a legal piece of paper than been handwritten or whatever has been notarized, it ought to be binding on both sides. We have had to fulfill and stand behind the obligation that the City have agreed to, but at the same time the people who have been hired under these contracts, and there’s another one on the agenda today, too, 54 have not had to do it. And I just think it’s unfair to the City and to the taxpayers of Richmond County. That’s how it got here in the first place. But I got no problem going into legal, Steve, and talking about it. We can go from there. Mr. Mayor: Is there any – Mr. Mays: Yes, Mr. Mayor. If it requires – and it doesn’t require unanimous consent, I’m not going to be that bullheaded to hold an item hostage. But I don’t think unless – now if we fixing to go into legal with this to talk about a personnel item, I don’t think that’s on the table today. And it can be put on the table, but I think in fairness to the Administrator, I don’t think a false cloud needs to be put over his head today to say that something is going on that we need to talk about in legal, and then I don’t think the Commission ought to be operating under a cloud. Now if it’s a public document, which you so stated a few minutes ago the contract is, and if we’re [inaudible] talking about dates and times that the contract has called for, then I don’t think that’s an item that qualifies under Open Records to go into legal. Now the Attorney can overrule me on it, but I think that has to be discussed in public venue and out here. That is not a matter for a legal session to go into in order to deal with that part of it. Mr. Wall: I’m not sure what the questions are. Mr. Mays: Could I – I couldn’t hear what you said. Mr. Wall: It depends on what the questions are in legal. Mr. Mays: [inaudible] Mr. Wall: I did. Mr. Mays: [inaudible] a little louder. Mr. Wall: I agree with you that the issue about what type of notice is required under the contract, that when that notice has to be given, is not something that can be discussed in legal session. And I do agree with that. But I don’t know what other questions there may be, but I mean the issue about the contract itself is not something that can be discussed in a closed meeting. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Beard [inaudible]. Mr. Beard: I just think we need a little time in fairness to everybody. Normally I can go along with Steve on most things that he suggests, but I think in all fairness to everybody, let’s do what we ask, and get the contract and discuss it so everybody can become a little more familiar with what’s going on. You know, we need to move on from this and do it in the appropriate way where we’re fair to everybody. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Shepard. 55 Mr. Shepard: Well, the answer – Mr. Mayor, the answer to that is to vote against the motion. Or make a substitute motion. Is my motion the first motion? Mr. Mayor: The only motion. Mr. Beard: Then I make the motion that we get the contract, have the Attorney get the contract to each individual and come prepared at the next meeting to discuss the Administrator’s contract. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor: All right. Substitute motion. Mr. Shepard. Mr. Shepard: Is that the next Commission meeting, Mr. Beard? Mr. Beard: I think it would have to be, would have to be inclusive of everything. Mr. Shepard: Thank you. Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor, what about the, Mr. Mays’ addition, if they can call it addition? Can that be created into Mr. Beard’s motion about the date? Cause Jim saying st the 31. Mr. Wall: [inaudible] last date. Mr. Williams: No, no. st Mr. Wall: [inaudible] December 31. Mr. Beard: And I think in this, you can [inaudible] you want to if it’s that [inaudible] public meeting, so you can put those dates in there or whatever, but it give us some time, and I’m not going [inaudible] today trying to address dates or look at a calendar, see where dates are, you know. I think give it time, and that’s ample time to do it, and that’s what we need to do. Mr. Mayor: All right. So this will be back on the next meeting agenda, if the substitute motion passes. Mr. Shepard. Mr. Shepard: Mr. Mayor, I know my motion belongs to the body, but I would like to withdraw it in light of the clarification of the substitute motion. Mr. Mayor: Let’s go ahead and vote on the substitute motion and then yours may be moot. All in favor of the substitute motion, please vote in the affirmative. Mr. Mays: Mr. Mayor. 56 Mr. Hankerson: I have one question. Mr. Mays: To your left. The Clerk: Mr. Hankerson, are you voting? Mr. Mayor: I’m afraid if I look to the left, Mr. Mays, you’re going to want to speak again. (Vote on substitute motion) Motion carries 10-0. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Wall, you’ll see those contract copies get sent. Mr. Cheek, item 31, I’m sorry I was not in your meeting. Was that put off until your next meeting? Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, that was deferred to the next Engineering Services Committee meeting and in the interim I’ll be contacting Commissioners to develop a list to send to Mr. Hicks concerning major commercial corridors that they have concerns about to ensure that sewer and water, adequate water, are either planned or in place for future economic development of our city. Mr. Mayor: All right. And then what about item number 32? Is there a report today for us? Mr. Cheek: We have a report coming back at the end of August. I believe that’s the correct date. Mr. Mayor: So there’s no report today then? Mr. Cheek: Or end of September. No report today. Although we, Mr. Mayor, I would like to bring to the attention of the Commission – Mr. Mayor: Go ahead. Mr. Cheek: In the investigation of the structural integrity of buildings, apparently some of those that are occupied were not as seriously scrutinized as they should have been, there being one downtown with serious structural cracks through the entire front of it, in the 600 block on the south side. And perhaps staff ought to be instructed to go look at all structures. If that crack was missed, and I can see it in a moving car, perhaps there are more serious structural flaws that need to be examined on all the buildings downtown, not just those that have been abandoned. But that can be included in the report when it’s returned at a later date. Mr. Mayor: All right. Thank you, Mr. Cheek. Madame Clerk, let’s go on to item 33, then. 57 The Clerk: FINANCE COMMITTEE: 33. Consider a request from the Augusta Flyers Track Club, Inc. regarding financial assistance in the amount of $1,000 to support the athletes’ trip to Detroit, Michigan to compete in the 2003 National AAU Junior Olympics. (Referred to HND for possible funding source by Finance Cmte. July 8, 2003) Mr. Cheek: I move that we approve pending a funding source. Mr. Colclough: Second. Mr. Mayor: We have a motion and second. Mr. Kolb, can you identify that funding source that has been referred to HND? Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission, we did check with HND. It is probably not an eligible activity since it does not benefit low- and moderate-income individuals and contrary to the goals of the CDBG program. We looked at a promotional account that it could be taken out of, if the Commission so desires, or it, at last resort, could come out of contingency. The $1,000. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Cheek, you want to identify that as a promotion account, sir? In your motion? Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, I’d like to see us – promotional accounts seems to be an appropriate source in that this would take the name of Augusta to Detroit, Michigan, and knowing our athletes, they will favorably represent our city, so that would be the source I would specify. Mr. Mayor: All right. So we’ll incorporate that. Mr. Beard and then Mr. Bridges. Mr. Beard: Before I could vote on this, Mr. Mayor, I’d like to know how much we have in the promotional account. It’s still a half year and we’ve got at least five, 6-1/2 more months to go and I think this is, we’re doing something here we normally don’t do and take it out of promotional account, so we are setting a precedent here. So I just want to know, you know, maybe next month when I come up with something can we go to promotional account or do we go to some other account? Mr. Kolb: If you want to hold off of your motion until after the next item, the Finance Director is looking at that now. We can let you know. I’m talking about the Commission’s promotional account. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Bridges. 58 Mr. Bridges: Are we continue to discuss this, or are we going to hold – okay. Mr. Mayor: No, go ahead. We have a motion on the floor. Go ahead and discuss it. Mr. Bridges: This was [inaudible] Finance Committee and normally we, I think [inaudible] point of information, but this organization we have, I think, if I’m not mistaken, in the past funded through CDBG. [inaudible] we funded. I don’t think I’m incorrect in that regard. But that was the only funding source that I would think that we’d be able to, based on previous practice and procedure, to fund them from. If we, if we fund them from anything else, I mean once again, you’re talking about things that there’s probably hundreds of different groups, dozens of groups that would be legitimately able to come down and claim the funds. Normally we’ve supported organizations and clubs when they had the promotional tables and pretty well held to it. I wouldn’t think that that’s something we’d want to fund out of – certainly not contingency because that’s the operation of this government, nor promotional. And the only reason that I recommended we send it over to CDBG is because at one time we had funded it through there and I thought there might be some possible funds there now that they could utilize, but that not being the source, it would not be my recommendation that we fund it, what is obviously an emergency for the club. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Bridges, just for clarification, in the backup there is reference to some previous funding in 1997 for the D.C. Flyers Track Club. And this is the Augusta Flyers Track Club. Mr. Bridges: Well, maybe those are the two that I’m – Mr. Mayor: Changed their name? Mr. Bridges: Yeah, changed their name. But nevertheless, I guess the D.C. Flyers came through the CDBG, if my memory serves me correctly. However, my memory hadn’t been doing too good at one point today and at one point at the last meeting. Okay. Okay. Mr. Mayor: Okay, Mr. Hankerson. Mr. Hankerson: Yes, I’d like to direct my question to Mr. Smith, please. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Smith, if you would come up. Mr. Hankerson: Thank you, sir. How was that determined, the income source of these track students? Mr. Smith: Income source? Mr. Hankerson: Right. 59 Mr. Smith: There was no determination of the income source. There was a determination of the type of activity, whether or not that general type of activity fit into the overall mission of Housing & Neighborhood Development, having to do with the elimination of blight and community development. And the purpose of the organization being to promote sports activities versus either one of those things mentioned. Mr. Hankerson: Okay. I thought I, I thought I heard that because of the income category that was denied, and I was wondering if all those young kids are running track, after I find out more about this group, you know, I’m wondering how they didn’t meet the income requirements. Cause if they do, I think I -- Mr. Smith: [inaudible] not kind of a real close review of the individual participants, it was a review of what that organization did in the context of what the mission of Housing & Neighborhood Development is. I mean this was not an application that came to us wherein we looked at and screened the application based on what they had intended to do, whether or not they were eligible. We were just asked whether or not this would be something that CDBG funds in general could support. And it’s in term of general, looking at the sports activity emphasis of this, that’s not something that CDBG funds would support. Mr. Hankerson: Okay, I thought maybe you didn’t get the message correctly, then. I thought this Commission directed the [inaudible] not to ask whether they qualified for the funds, but to go and ask for you to fund it if funds were available, not whether it qualified. Because we could qualify it and I don’t think that we need to start going to no promotional account for these funds. I think the way that we been getting them, and if it’s available, it’s coming to the year of the year, if it’s available, I think that we should do it and also suggest that we consider next year, that we [inaudible] how we are going to fund organizations as they come forward and kind of put some guidelines on that, whether we going to do it or whether we going to provide someone else, a committee or your department, to do that. But I thought we asked to check with you to see whether the funds were available. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Kolb. Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission, Community Development Block Grant funds are, are highly regulated funds and we just cannot spend the money at the direction of the Commission without meeting HUD guidelines. We advised, I mean the Commission can absolutely say where the money can be spent from, but then HUD has the overall authority of telling the City that you have to pay it back if the funds are spent in conflict with what their regulations say. And we believe strongly and we are advising the Commission that this would not be an eligible activity that would meet HUD’s scrutiny. Mr. Hankerson: Could I have a follow-up? 60 Mr. Mayor: Go right ahead. Mr. Hankerson: Well, if that’s the case, Mr. Kolb, I think we just been wasting time. The time is running out for this team to have these funds – if you knew that when we made that suggestion, that we [inaudible] that, then I think you should have said that at that point. We could have discussed that at that time or looked for other alternatives. Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor, we did not know that at that time. It had been suggested that it had been done in the past, so I was not aware under what circumstances that would have been done. We were asked to see if there was a possibility that HND could fund it, and we asked that question and that was the response that we had to come back to you with. Mr. Hankerson: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Kolb, this could be funded out of recaptured UDAG, could it not? Mr. Kolb: Yes. It could be. Mr. Mayor: [inaudible] no restrictions on it like there are in Community Development? Mr. Mays: May I make a motion that it so be funded out of that if there is some money in there to do that with, I think they got $1,000. Mr. Hankerson: Second. Mr. Mayor: We’ve got a motion and a second. Substitute motion to fund it out of UDAG. Mr. Boyles. Mr. Boyles: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I had two comments I was going to make and I think Mr. Mays’ substitute may have put a damper on one of them. But I’ve just got something of a pet peeve, I suppose, that we pay for a pretty good Recreation program. We pay a lot of money for it. And I had a call last night from another group that wanted some personal funding, and plus, I had to call Barry White with CVB today to try to raise some things for them. What kind of concerns me that we’re paying for a Recreation program for all the citizens of this county, but yet we keep coming up with different little groups that want to do something on their own and contrary to what the Recreational policies may be. They don’t seem to want to follow, or at least they didn’t when I was out there, follow some of the guidelines. And that’s just a pet peeve, and I’ve always said that and I still do. The other was about a couple of weeks ago we [inaudible] some money, about $150,000 from the sale of the Landmark Apartments, the sale of that loan, however that developed, and we set aside $130,000 of that for the Senior Citizens Council and I think $10,000 went to the Augusta Youth Center, and I don’t know whatever happened with the other $10,000. 61 Mr. Mayor: It went to Project Success. Mr. Boyles: The other $10,000 went to Project Success, but did Project Success come about? Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor. Mr. Boyles: How did Project Success happen? I don’t know that they went ahead with that program. Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor, in answer to Commissioner Boyles’ question, the answer is no. They had to cancel the program. We did not write a check for that activity. Mr. Boyles: So that gives you a $10,000 cushion right there, but Mr. Mays’ motion from recaptured UDAG funds must have superceded that. Mr. Mayor: That is recaptured UDAG, is it not? Mr. Kolb: That is recaptured UDAG funding. Mr. Mayor: That’s what that is. Mr. Mays. Mr. Mays: If I might, Mr. Mayor, I [inaudible] expedite it from the standpoint that as long as it’s legal and I don’t think that the group would come and ask for any funds that would be illegal [inaudible], I think what opened the door to this is really the fact that when it was mentioned about – the motion in committee was to direct it back to CDBG. When we started this conversation, it was said that the group was in ineligible because it did not meet low- to moderate-income. And we kind of joked on this end – I said well, maybe everybody on the track club is rich, then, so it made it ineligible to go through CDBG. So we were just searching for a source. If it comes out of there, I’m really not picky about where it does come from, but I think something needs to be clarified. One, in terms of getting where guidelines are, I don’t think that we need to get a wholesale lecture on whether or not we going to take something that’s illegal from the Administrator. I don’t think anybody is asking that. I think that [inaudible] that warning, but I agree with Commissioner Hankerson, that could have been resolved some time ago. Now I’m, before you rule me out of order, Mr. Mayor, but I do want to get an answer, not today, but I think we ought to get one. If we voted the other week, if there was some technical reason why that other program didn’t get its money, now that’s the first time today that I heard that the program was canceled on Project Success, that the money didn’t get down there. Now if they did something wrong and had to fold because they didn’t get it, but because there was already enough recaptured money there. Now we couldn’t do the Seniors Program cause we were waiting on the $150,000. But now there was enough money in there that since they came out of the same pot, gentlemen, that that money for those two small organizations could have been used out of existing money which was more than enough to do that. Now I’m going to be out of order if I [inaudible] 62 but I am going to put it on Mr. Beard’s committee agenda for committee cause I think in things like that, if the Commission votes on and I’m hearing in an open meeting today by accident that they did not get their money, and I’m glad Commissioner Boyles raised that issue, it’s something that we voted on, if it didn’t get [inaudible] memo to come out from somebody, I’m going to use Commissioner Williams’ term, from folk that we pay, when we vote and direct money a certain way – folk don’t have to like motion I make, but you darn sure going respect them. And if six votes decide that it’s going somewhere, if there is a reason for it, then it ought to be brought back to this Commission, if nothing else out of common courtesy to say that a program didn’t get its money. Now I’m mad as hell about that. [inaudible] And if it didn’t get there, and I know some people say well, it’s real smart, something happened so I don’t have to do it that way. Well, I [inaudible] if that’s the way we going to play the game, I learned the rules well. I learned from the best. I can show you how to play them. Mr. Administrator, I think that’s a sorry way to do business. That wasn’t done. And I realize you didn’t like what was done, then it wasn’t your call to make – if something happened in that process [inaudible] that check did not reach those folk. Now I got a real problem with that. And it’s happening every week, somehow or another, things that this Commission does and directed in certain policy, we either find it out by accident or we have to come out here and argue about it. And I for one am just sick and tired of it. Mr. Mayor: Let’s hear from Mr. Cheek and then Mr. Beard and then Mr. Williams. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, aren’t these the kids that [inaudible]? So these are the kids from Augusta that will be hopefully having an opportunity to go represent Augusta in Detroit? I will forego my trip to the National League of Cities, whatever my plane tickets or whatever else, to chip that money into [inaudible] get it, the promotional account or travel account or whatever else. The reason our kids don’t compete in this state or in this region is because we don’t fund the programs in Recreation to allow them to travel, to go compete. And to bring back the name recognition of this city that Columbia County and Aiken County and North Augusta have. I, for one, will give my share of whatever remaining travel money I have this year to fund these kids going up there. Mark it off of whatever my amount is. Dad gum it, let’s send our kids off with Augusta on their shirt, like we went to Georgia State [inaudible] Championship a few years ago and represented well. Kids that they didn’t think had a chance came up there and nearly beat Columbia County. Let’s give these kids a chance to represent, like they are capable of doing, and maybe open some doors for them and bring some eyes back to Augusta. These are good will ambassadors of this city and I will be more than happy to chip in any travel money I have to send these kids, and it doesn’t have to come out [inaudible] whatever other trip I may be scheduled to take this year, give it to the team. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Beard, then Mr. Williams. Mr. Beard: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I think we’re missing the boat a little bit here in this [inaudible]. Nobody [inaudible] we want them to go in style and all the amenities that are needed for that. The point [inaudible] recaptured UDAG money [inaudible] 63 going in that direction. So, you know, I’m [inaudible]. Secondly, [inaudible] what I heard about [inaudible] until Commissioner Mays [inaudible] was not getting [inaudible] check. And I thought [inaudible] because [inaudible] the Commission [inaudible] we need to know why. I would particularly like to know why. Mr. Kolb: When we called to tell them that they had gotten the check, it’s my understanding that they said well, we don’t need the money because they had canceled the program. That they were not going to do the summer program. Mr. Beard: Oh, so they refused the check? Mr. Kolb: Right. They said we don’t need the money because – [inaudible] specific purpose, as I understand it, when – anyway, when we called them to tell them that we were going to cut the check, they said that they had canceled the program and they didn’t need the money. Mr. Speaker: [inaudible] Mr. Mayor: George, in relation to when the Commission voted to approve the money, when did you call them? Mr. Kolb: It happened shortly after the meeting. Mr. Mayor: Shortly would be what? A day or two? Mr. Kolb: Yes. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Mays: Mr. Mayor, Mr. Mayor I went there the night that we had that meeting, because [inaudible] dire straits of Project Success. I went to the assisted living facility where former Commissioner Brigham, who started that [inaudible] and put it together for those kids. Went there to his room that night, his wife, my former homeroom teacher, to let them personally know that we had just approved that money, that it was going to be forthcoming, that we had. Now where that went on one call that they had canceled it, I don’t know. But I think if anybody would know whether or not they were going to be continuing a program, it would be both Henry and [inaudible] Brigham, and I went there, over in the facility there in Beverly Manor, and talked to them that same night. Made it a point of going there before visiting hours were over, to let them know that it had been approved. And Henry [inaudible] said well, is it going to be for next year, [inaudible]? I said no. I said we’ve approved that so the kids will be able to carry on in this year. Now I don’t think they went that next morning – all y’all know Henry very well and how he loves that program. They ain’t went that next morning and get [inaudible]. So somebody’s got a different story, and [inaudible] somebody call it lying. But I think somewhere in the midst of it, we got a different story from two different sets of folks. 64 Mr. Mayor: Mr. Beard, are you finished? Mr. Beard: I think he covered it all. But I do think that – Mr. Kolb: I’ll get you a report on that. Mr. Beard: Okay. Mr. Mayor: A chronology with it, too, that would help. Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And I just want to say that I’m glad to see the concern for the children [inaudible] athletic part of their lives. But when it comes to young children, we don’t think they need no guidance, I guess. But to move on to what we talking about here now, to say that the recaptured UDAG money is money we can use. The [inaudible] money that have to [inaudible]. I experienced that twice with Apple Valley, where we had to go from house to house to survey the parents to fit those guidelines. So the Administrator is right in that respect. [inaudible] Mr. Boyles’ comment and the fact about the Project Success [inaudible]. I want to know right now if it hadn’t come out in this setting, when were we going to be told? When was somebody – I mean because we’re the policy makers and we make those policies and give out direction for folk who making money do what they want to, when they want to, if they want to. I would like to know when would we have known that, if Mr. Boyles hadn’t brought that to light? [inaudible] Mr. Mayor: Mr. Cheek. Mr. Williams: I’m not finished. I need an answer. My question is – Mr. Mayor: You’re not getting an answer. Nobody – Mr. Williams: Somebody make too much money not to answer, Mr. Mayor [inaudible] if it happens, they know it happened. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Williams, you’re sitting in the same Chamber that I am and – Mr. Williams: Yes, sir, and that’s why I’m asking the question. Mr. Mayor: Let me finish. And you asked the question and there was silence. Nobody answered it. I’m trying to move this discussion along. Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor, as the [inaudible] as the Mayor of this city, I expect you to direct it. If you want me to direct it, I can direct it. Mr. Mayor: I understand that Mr. Mays had just asked that this item be put on the next committee agenda, and I’m sure there will be a thorough airing and discussion of 65 this at the committee meeting. Mr. Beard has asked for a written report from Mr. Kolb. And Mr. Kolb is going to get him a written report. Mr. Williams: Well, Mr. Kolb ought to have sense enough [inaudible] at our next [inaudible] or whatever. I mean that don’t take a report to do that. Folk may too much, money, Mr. Mayor, when we direct people to do things. And that ain’t the only thing. That just something that just happened to come up. Mr. Mayor: What we’re trying to do is get some money for some kids so they can go to Detroit. Mr. Bridges: Call for the order of the day, Mr. Mayor, if I could. Mr. Mayor: Well, the question has been called, and the Chair will rule there has been adequate debate. And we ought to move ahead and let’s get these kids their money so they can – [inaudible] Mr. Cheek: [inaudible] Mr. Mayor: You’re not ready to vote? If you’re not ready to vote – Mr. Cheek: Just for a minute. Mr. Mayor: Go ahead. Mr. Cheek: Gentlemen, a coach for a number of years, I’ve struggled to raise money to take kids on trips. Not knowing when you try to prepare a team is one of the hardest things a coach and parents have to go through, to deal with raising money to send in to an event to represent this city. The very last thing we ought to do, we ought to say yes, we’re going to find a way to finance this and I apologize if I got a little carried away on that. But dad gum in, these kids go and it means a lot to them, but it means a lot to this city for them to come back after representing us well and be able to stand before us and to proudly say we represented Augusta well and we were proud to be there in your name. So --- Mr. Mayor: We have a motion on the floor, for $1,000 out of recaptured UDAG. That’s the question we’re calling. All in favor of that motion, please vote in the affirmative. (Vote on substitute motion) Mr. Boyles votes No. Motion carries 9-1. Mr. Mayor: Next item, Madame Clerk, is item number 34. Mr. Mays: Excuse me, Mr. Mayor. 66 Mr. Mayor: Yes. Mr. Mays: If I can just ask one thing of a point of order. Mr. Mayor: All right. Mr. Mays: Can, can the group be told when they will get that check? Cause I hate to be here next month and find out they didn’t get theirs, either [inaudible]? Mr. Mayor: Mr. Mays, let me ask this. Mr. Smith, would you go over and meet with a representative of this [inaudible] about when they can get their check? They’re leaving next week. Mr. Mays: And I hate to be that arrogant about it, but it’s getting to be that [inaudible] no offense to Mr. Smith, but I’m just getting tired of this Commission voting for things and directing and then we decide, folk want to [inaudible] and set policy, too. They ain’t going to do both. Mr. Mayor: Yes, ma’am? Ms. Speaker: [inaudible] Mr. Mayor: Come up to the microphone and give us your name and address for the record and then say what you want and we’ll move along [inaudible]. Ms. Speaker: I won’t hold you all. My name is [inaudible] and I represent the Augusta Flyers Track Club [inaudible] vice president. And a couple of comments that were made regarding the Recreation Department and the money that is allocated to them for these programs. This is a, this is a community involved track club. It is not [inaudible] Recreation & Parks. This is through a volunteer, a group of volunteer parents. We don’t get any funding from Recreation & Parks but we do, they do have a track and field program they do during the school year. They don’t have a summer track and field program. This is a summer program that we try to carry on ourselves to involve children in the neighborhood and [inaudible] so we don’t actually have community funding to do this. As I said, the Recreation & Parks, they support us from time to time, and we support them, also, when they are doing the school year activities. But this is a community track and field program and as a matter of fact, there is not a whole lot of [inaudible] all that stuff, but when it comes to track and field, there’s very little support for these young people. [inaudible] these are ambassadors that are representing Augusta and all we ask for is the $1,000 to help with some of the finances. So I’m just hearing all of this and I’m trying to understand what, you know, what is the big problem. Because [inaudible] community, I don’t know if it would be under Augusta Richmond County but we asked for support before. And I heard you mention to the gentleman earlier about one of the organizations [inaudible] and I would like that same information also so we won’t have to go through things like this [inaudible] included in all the other stuff that’s funded 67 [inaudible] go out of town [inaudible]. I would like to know how we can come through Augusta Richmond County or whatever programs you all have that can help fund for these children. Mr. Mayor: We want to thank you for what you and the other volunteers do on behalf of these children. It’s important work and we appreciate it and we’re glad to support it. Mr. Smith is going to talk to you about getting this $1,000 for your organization. At the same, Warren, would you please talk to them about the time table and the budget process and how they can apply for funds on a regular basis so they won’t have to come in here at the last minute and we go through [inaudible]. Ms. Speaker: Thank y’all. Mr. Mayor: Thank you very much. Y’all give us a report now when you get back from Detroit. We want to know how you did. Madame Clerk. The Clerk: OTHER BUSINESS: 34. Commission present the Legislative Delegation a Resolution abolishing the Coliseum Authority and that the Commission payoff the remaining bond indebtedness and the Commission will enter into a contract with the CVB to administrator the civic center. (Requested by Commissioner Bill Kuhlke) Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Kuhlke. Mr. Kuhlke: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I put this on the agenda because of the difficulties that seem to continue to take place over at the Civic Center. It appears to me that we have an ineffective organization that’s running the Civic Center. They have difficulty getting people to come in and be the promoter for the Civic Center. They have trouble retaining an attorney. There is continuing bickering at the Civic Center. The facility is filthy. We have a situation where revenues continue to fall. They continually lose money on an annual basis. In one particular case, we lost an economic of $1 million this year because of the sloppy job that they did last year for the North Georgia Conference. And they moved that particular convention to Athens. So my, my request to this body is just very short and very sweet. And I would like to put in the form a motion that the Commission present to the Legislative Delegation at their next session a resolution to abolish the Coliseum Authority, that this Commission will either pay off the remaining bonded indebtedness that’s on the Coliseum or assume that obligation itself, and further that this Commission will either accept responsibility under its umbrella of running the Coliseum Authority or that we contract with the Convention & Visitors Bureau to do the administrative part of the Coliseum work and including the hiring of a professional management firm to run the Coliseum on a day-to-day basis. Mr. Shepard: Second. 68 Mr. Mayor: We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Beard. Mr. Beard: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Most times I can concur with a lot of things that Mr. Kuhlke says because I think he makes a lot of sense on those issues. But this is [inaudible] I hear a lot of those things about this body that I’m a member of. (Laughter) Mr. Beard: [inaudible] also. I’m a little [inaudible] rush to judgment. I know they’ve had problems over there. I know that, you know, [inaudible] we’re going to have problems. But I think a lot of this is coming from different aspects [inaudible] images [inaudible]. I truly believe that as [inaudible] took the time [inaudible] with the Civic Center, but [inaudible] kind of got [inaudible] these people might work out their own problems. [inaudible] what they were going to do. [inaudible] selecting a person to operate or [inaudible] and person [inaudible] hire is adequate or not I don’t know because I don’t know enough about that person. But I think that these things show that they are moving in [inaudible] time to do that. [inaudible]. And I think that [inaudible] but I think that what I’ve seen and what I’ve heard over the last few days that they [inaudible] operate [inaudible]. [inaudible] And we have to understand that when dealing with a complex of this nature that [inaudible] going to run a deficit because they are really not [inaudible]. [inaudible] oversight committee or [inaudible] and come back. [inaudible] can [inaudible] facility [inaudible] how that goes. And the other thing, since I have the floor, [inaudible] but one of our [inaudible] CVB [inaudible] and I guess I have to get a [inaudible] for that because I was wondering where that came from. I’ve been reading about it in the paper and [inaudible] and I guess I need to ask Jim a couple of questions. [inaudible] Mr. Wall: CVB? Mr. Beard: Yes. [inaudible] How did they come up with that? Mr. Wall: That came before the Commission. The CVB, there was some issue about whether or not they needed to incorporate as a non-profit organization. And they opted to incorporated and prior to doing that and prior to our changing that, that came before the Commission for Commission approval. Mr. Beard: Okay. This is what I was wondering because I knew [inaudible] by the County and the City, then how does – and I [inaudible] hearing that [inaudible] two that [inaudible]. Mr. Wall: It came before the Commission to approve their incorporating, yes. Mr. Beard: And the other thing, Mr. Mayor, I just wanted to state that [inaudible] I don’t see how we can [inaudible] about they were not going to promote [inaudible] and we [inaudible] in the [inaudible]. Now we talk about [inaudible] go get another – [inaudible] that kind of bothers me in that. And I think that that kind of attitude, I have a 69 lot of reservations about [inaudible] I would have to question that [inaudible]. Until somebody [inaudible] as to [inaudible]. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Beard. Let me – just before we go on down the line here. I would concur with the motion made by Mr. Kuhlke today. As you recall, we were in this Chamber last year talking about this same issue and we had a meeting at the boat house with the Delegation, met with the Coliseum Authority, and this body, trying to bring some peace to that family and trying to move that organization forward. And here we’ve come full circle in the past year. And I would encourage members of this body [inaudible] Mr. Cheek: [inaudible] bond [inaudible] requires less utilities and less staff to take up that additional money has some slight benefit but the net, the net indicator should be for the last three years the total number of events that have been held there and the profit margin for each event. We have, as you said, come to this issue more than once. I remember [inaudible] years ago being promised by the then-chairman of the Coliseum Authority that we would be getting regular financial reports. I remember last year [inaudible] to you that what [inaudible] did in fact take place that last year’s financial statements were worse than the year prior to that. Without the refinancing and other things that have taken place this year, in fact, would be just as bad or worse. Actions must be taken to turn this facility around. This is a facility that has not been maintained. It is in poor mechanical shape and in desperate need of a restoration. We fight over concession prices when ours were already some of the lowest in the area and further reduced them. We are further reducing our profit margin. It seems at every turn we are trying to make a very, very [inaudible] civic center fail. But [inaudible] we have the power to suggest. There are some fine staff members over there that with some proper guidance I believe could do a good job. There are some well intentioned board members, some who have stepped down from the chair and others who have tried to bring together that board. There are board members who serve on that board who also conduct events at that facility. And yes, the very newspaper that writes about us is also one of the first ones to come in and ask for a reduction in fee. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a myth that we all have a part in, but again, we have only the power to suggest. Therefore, I’m going to make a substitute motion that we do confer with our Legislative Delegation at the next available work session with our standing committee, requiring a full financial report from the Coliseum Authority and an action plan with the intentions of abolishing the Authority or coming up with an action plan that would resolve the problems there and have it professionally run. We do not have those answers today. And while we may pass a resolution, until we come up with a [inaudible] with those in Atlanta who do have the power to make that decision, we’re blowing smoke. So let’s get together, our people with their people, find out [inaudible] facts, as Commissioner Beard said. Some of the same things have been said about us and we know that they’re not true. Some of them are. And then let’s plot our course of action with the Commission and the Legislative Delegation working together to finally resolve this problem. Mr. Beard: I second that. 70 Mr. Mayor: Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, I first of all, Commissioner Beard answered one of my questions. I was going to ask the question how bad is the Coliseum? From my understanding, with today’s economy, with the way things going, we are really doing pretty good. There always room for improvement and we can always see something better. But let’s be real honest, as Mr. Mays, as he always say. I don’t know how you can be honest and not be real honest. But let’s be real honest and look at Augusta. We are quoted to be the second largest city in the state of Georgia. Now that’s because we combine our city and our county together. We do not have the population if we build anything or added to what we got now, no acts, no shows is going to come to Augusta with the number of people in Augusta. Why would they skip Atlanta, Columbia, Macon to come to Augusta to pull those people from those cities into Augusta? Anybody, any businessman or any businesswoman will know that you go where majority of people may be located and try to draw the minority or the rest of the folks to you. I mean Augusta has got a lot of growing to do. I [inaudible] some problems. This whole city got some problems. I mean in fact every city got problems. I don’t understand how we can sit here and think that we are doing so bad that we just, we at the verge of losing everything we got [inaudible] have not [inaudible] I think somebody just mentioned, it may have been Mr. Cheek, that the report came back that we really kind of balancing ourselves. [inaudible] mindset of the people in Augusta I think we’re really doing good. Cause we are [inaudible] in our thinking as far as getting progressive and doing some things. And no shows, no acts, nobody is going to come to Augusta because we in a nice location. We got to open up the thinking capacity of the leaders of this city, we’ve got to do some things differently. If we were flourishing in the area in other ways and our Civic Center wasn’t flourishing, I think we got a problem. But there is a lot of things [inaudible] and we act like we don’t see it. We sit here every day and go on and say everything is fine. This is still a town. We will not let it be a city because we don’t want to get open minded. We don’t want to do the things that’s going to [inaudible]. We want to designate what we think people ought to be doing. And the thing that you don’t like, somebody else may like. But we need to look at [inaudible] we ought to at least sit down and talk with them and try to see what is going on. And it’s really simple, y’all. And it ain’t no magic to it. [inaudible] people coming together you’re going to have disagreement, you going to have people that don’t see the same thing. And we got to get on the same page. That’s the whole ball game. We will never grow, we never do what is right until we start to at least mix and mingle. We can’t designate just what we want. It’s a community. We got to find out what the community would like to have. We can’t designate just the things that we think is good. So if we not doing that bad, I think Commissioner Beard said [inaudible], I think [inaudible] with no more economic growth or no more money flowing through this area. I think [inaudible] I can support the motion, Commissioner Cheek. I just hope the people of Augusta understand that we got to grow in all shapes, form and fashion if we want to get [inaudible] anything we want to do, we got to get open minded. We got to see what’s working in other cities and apply that to [inaudible] so we’ll be able to be competitive where people will come here and want to live here and work in this city. That’s all, Mr. Mayor. 71 Mr. Mayor: Mr. Kuhlke [inaudible]. Mr. Kuhlke: Mr. Mayor and my fellow Commissioners, I don’t want to sell ourselves too short here. You know, I look at our City, and we’re working under a balanced budget. We have not G-O bond indebtedness. We have three months’ reserve from a financial standpoint. This City is in good, good shape, compared with Macon, Savannah, Atlanta, whatever you do, we’re in good shape. And I would encourage each one of you Commissioners to take a look at the nine months statement that was sent to each one of y’all by the Civic Center, and then we’ll come back and talk some more. But look at it. It’s not like we are. And my other point is last year we sat down with the Delegation and we gave them a list of things that we would like to see done in this community. Mr. Beard chaired that committee. We got not one thing. Not one thing did we get from the Delegation. So I don’t have a problem sitting down and talking. I’m throwing this on the table. It’s an idea. I didn’t just say the CVB, Mr. Beard. I said this Commission could take control of the Coliseum. So I didn’t tie it to just one thing and I want you to understand that. But anyway, I think that it’s time for us to step to the plate and we need to take some action. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Hankerson. Mr. Hankerson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I am somewhat surprised [inaudible] we asked to make a knee-jerk reaction here. I know we worked with the Civic Center board members before. And my question, how many new board members? Don’t we have some new board members there on the board? I know we have several. I’ve been reading in the paper we had several new board members, haven’t been on there long enough to really get the swing to make some changes. But also, I keep in touch with my appointee and I know she [inaudible] finance and now is in another position from a resign, I think the chairman resigned and it caused a change there. So I think that if we give them enough time for the new people to take position and we’ll see some change made in the Civic Center. I think that we, we need to go over sometimes and sit in their meetings and actually see what is going on. Because from what we hear, may be a lot different from actually being there and seeing what’s going on. Another thing is the board members, who appoints them? We appoint the board members. So we should appoint the quality type of board members that is able to work with a group of diversity, a diversified group, and being able to have the business expertise to help promote the Civic Center. I read an article from the [inaudible] Convention Center in Macon. And if you’ll allow me, it said this. During the past several years, records from civic centers in other towns such as Albany, Savannah, Columbus show that their civic centers also lose money each year. They lose money each year. And also the Mayor there, Mayor Jack Ellis made this comment. He says we always, we always had to subsidize them. We probably always will, although our goal would be some day at least break even. We are moving into that direction. And he also said the shows and the employees and so forth should promote the civic center. And I have a problem also and I heard a comment was made that we’re not promoting any more, and I made this comment to other Commissioners. If we had an employee here that they’re not promoting Augusta, I will recommend that they be fired because I think if you’re not promoting it, you’re just killing it. And we need 72 promoters, we need people going to talk up Augusta and not talk down Augusta. [inaudible] I appointed a 30-year school teacher that used most of her time in her last year before she retired to work hard [inaudible]. Took off of work to come to those meetings when people wouldn’t even – she was there and [inaudible] wouldn’t meet. They literally, couldn’t have a quorum. [inaudible] doing that, they are killing the Civic Center. Not promoting it. [inaudible] I just met with her a few days ago and talked with her about the Civic Center. I [inaudible] report here, too, that shows that yes, they’ve been in a deficit but they are coming up. She was proud. [inaudible] have some improvements shown here. And I have these records here that shows some achievements that they were making in the last five or six months. And [inaudible] I got on there and I was thinking about resigning. She says but now I want to really stay and work to see this work. I’m dedicated to her since I appointed her during that school year and she lost all of her time [inaudible]. And I think we ought to give Mr. Frazier, Mr. Albright, those new members [inaudible], give them a chance to get in there and work together and try to make this work, rather than just make a decision that we are just going to abolish it. That’s [inaudible] just abolish it but give someone a chance just beginning there to work. I know when I came on this Commission 2-1/2 years ago, I had to have some time to really, to find out what was really going on and to really work with every individual that is sitting here. So I think people deserve some time and I think we can do it. [inaudible] the Civic Center really needs someone to promote the activities. We need somebody who know what’s going on, someone that’s been in other towns and cities to know what the people like in Augusta and what’s going to bring people to Augusta from hours away, to bring them and make them want to come to Augusta. And I think if we give them some time, I think we could all see that we have a good working program. We’re also talking about a new arena and these sort of things. I think this is a bad time to really talk about abolishing something that when we’re trying to get [inaudible] and making sure that [inaudible]. We need to come together now. We don’t need to be, nothing to divide us. And so with that I can’t support abolishing. But I do, I think that all the Commissioners that made motions and comments, there were very good, and we need to work on something and we need to work on it like we did before. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Bridges and then Mr. Shepard [inaudible]. Mr. Bridges: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, I keep hearing about the Civic Center not making any money. It’s like Mr. Hankerson pointed out, none of them make money. I don’t think they’re designed to make money. We didn’t expect it to make money or to make a profit. However, over a period of 15-20 years, it has paid it bond down from I think $12 million down to $5 million or $6 million. But to actually make a profit is not the purpose of the Civic Center. The purpose of the Civic Center is what they can draw in in room nights, conventions, that type of thing. Sales tax dollars. That type of thing. That’s what we’re interested in, the economic impact it has on the community. But as far as actually making a profit, I don’t think that’s going to happen. In regards to, and we were all at the meeting before and I’ve been here almost eight years now, and I can count on my left hand the number of financial reports I’ve gotten, received from the Civic Center. And that’s supposed to be done quarterly. I mean that’s the Legislation, that’s the law, I understand, Jim, that we’re supposed to get that. I 73 haven’t got that in some time until just recently. I think it’s real interesting that we went through professional managers that the board hired, we went through professional outside managers that sent a part-time manager down here to do it. We didn’t get any reports then, and now we don’t have a manager at all and got an interim person in there and she sends out financial reports. You know, maybe we’re looking at this time the wrong way. I mean if we’re going to get results and information from down there that takes – somebody interim can do it, then maybe that’s what we need to do. But as [inaudible] used to say, all seriousness aside, we have got some proposals on the board here. I have a, I don’t have any trouble sitting down and discussing this. I mean if you want to abolish the board and take it under us, I don’t have a lot of problems with that. I do have a lot – the Civic Center has been an issue ever since I’ve been in Augusta, and that’s been almost 20 years now, more so an issue, more so a controversy than the Commission here. And I don’t know if it’s the nature of it or just what it is [inaudible] what’s involved there. But I sure would hate to see us put that on an organization that we think is dysfunctional and not working like the Civic Center board. I sure would hate to see us place it on the back of an organization that is working, that is doing a good job, that is bringing, promoting this city and bringing tourism dollars in here, motel and hotel business in here, and see them get saddled with something that might not be positive to their image. And you know, I see the Chairman of the CVB out there and I hope he and his board are very cautious about agreeing to take this thing on, [inaudible] that where it comes from. My understanding is they have not requested this but are willing to look at it. But yeah, I think we need to sit down with those who have the responsibility and the legal means to making changes on the board. I don’t have any problems with that at all. But I would just be very cautious of placing the burden of the Civic Center and the authority of the Civic Center on the back of an organization that functioned well and take a chance of ruining their image and their promotion in this community. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Shepard. Mr. Shepard: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I guess what I wanted to offer to the Commission was from the perspective of being a former official in a statewide convention. Mr. Mays will recall that in 2000 the Augusta Lions Club was the sponsor of the Georgia State Lions Convention. And in a moment of lapsed judgment, perhaps, I agreed to be one of the co-chairmen. But I remember Mr. Mays coming, and what you have to do when you have an event like that in Augusta, because we are obviously very far east in the state, when we have to compete against other facilities, we have to offer a little extra in our hospitality. We have to really, really work hard to get people interested and to make them welcome here so that they can weigh that against a more central location of a Macon or the metropolitan offerings of Atlanta. I guess what I took away from the CVB board was that [inaudible] can no longer afford to meet in the Atlanta market because the downtown industry, convention industry is largely a function of a national market now. They’re out in Hapeville and they’re out in Stone Mountain and they’re around the metropolitan area. But they’re also in Athens and I know that as part of that 2000 Lions Convention, the year before that we had a committee that went to Athens to see what was done right. And let me tell you, the Lions were very impressed in Athens. The Methodists were also very impressed in Athens. And this year, what we 74 didn’t have back, we did not have the United Methodists. The United Methodists had a two-year commitment here and they did not exercise that second option. And those preachers and lay delegates were also involved in other organizations. And I also learned when I was at the CVB what meeting planners were. They are folks who go out and plan meetings and the CVB, of course, presents to the various associations of meeting planners, and they [inaudible] our community. And when you have problems like they did – I remember Mr. Boyles and Mr. Kuhlke telling me about the Methodists had to serve their own meals. I mean that, that’s not a hospitable situation. That’s not hospitality that I know this community is capable of. And I think that what, what has been done today is [inaudible], Mr. Kuhlke has made a noise about this problem. We as community leaders cannot [inaudible]. The Methodist Convention that was in Athens, those dollars could have come down here. And what’s not happening here this summer is arena football. You know, I don’t do a real scientific survey, but when I go to -- the Civic Center is in my office area, and sometimes I work late and you see the cars parked and they were at the Lynx and the arena football game, I saw car tags from a lot of other counties around here other than Richmond. And that’s people that are coming in here, [inaudible], probably buying dinner. So this is a problem that we have got to attack as community leaders. And that’s why I seconded Bill’s motion, because I think we need to get the attention of this community. I could sit down and meet with them, but I thought that that’s what we did last year. But if it would take another meeting, that’s fine. And I think we’ve got a process that we had in place last year to meet with our State Legislators. And just as can change all the parts of our charter, we can certainly change the Coliseum Authority [inaudible] state organization, it has some dignity as a creature of the State Legislature. And we need to go to our Legislators, and I agree with what Mr. Cheek said, but I don’t think we can just say that everything is all right at the Coliseum. It may be losing money, but I think more importantly it is losing its standing among the competitors statewide. And when you have meeting planners talk, and they will talk, and when you have Methodists who came down here and had the experience they had, they will talk. They will talk to other denominations. And our convention industry, the motels, the hotels, the restaurants, the stores, they are all going to suffer, gentlemen, and we’d better [inaudible] and do something about it quickly. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Mays. Mr. Mays: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Obviously everything is not perfect over there. If it were, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. [inaudible] I’m a little, I probably won’t vote for either motion that’s on the floor. I [inaudible] don’t like to telegraph [inaudible] or predetermine how meetings are going to turn out. I think if you assemble a group of people for the purpose of saying that you’re going to do something, then I’m [inaudible] enough to say you ought to just [inaudible]. [inaudible] meet but talk about abolishing something [inaudible] go on and do what you’re going to do. If that’s what you’re going to do. But I do think there is room for positive dialog, because it concerns me about what happens in the future of this city. [inaudible] generation business owner and [inaudible] in this city, my family has benefited a lot by what has happened in Augusta. What happened with this economy. And I’m seriously concerned about the Coliseum Authority being receptive to new ideas, [inaudible] changes, 75 [inaudible] a lot of options to do. So I think when you telegraph the type of message, one, on one motion that you’re just going to send it to the General Assembly to [inaudible] abolish it, and then on the other one that you’re going to have a meeting to talk about abolishing it, then that’s already a [inaudible] of made up minds [inaudible] which does not create the type of environment of where you have an open and honest discussion about what you’re doing. Now I think [inaudible] can be done. We may still end up with the deficits that are there like in other cities, but then you ask yourself the question is it the structure or quite frankly is it just the personalities of the board? There’s a lot there that I think needs to be discussed in an open meeting, quite frankly. I’m going to [inaudible] Commissioner Hankerson in reference to the promotion of the Civic Center. Now that event that happened last year with the United Methodists I think was very, very unfortunate. I was not involved in that direct discussion of what went on, how it happened. I know Commissioner Boyles and Commissioner Kuhlke were quite close to that. But [inaudible] Mr. Mayor, cause I don’t like to rely on what I read or even sometimes what I hear somebody else reporting, and Barry and I have known each other for a long time. We have worked on a lot of projects together. But I think the question needs to be asked, did the CVB’s board, did the [inaudible] was there some movement? Because the only thing I’ve done is read and I think the only way [inaudible] was there an official tool that said CVB will not be marketing the Civic Center? Or what I read in The Spirit or what was read to me in an editorial the other day out of the daily paper [inaudible]? Because I think that’s something that needs to be answered, not to a point of criticism per se but of information and my reason for asking it in a point blank way that way is the fact that we need to know, say for instance, number one, [inaudible] first two weeks of January [inaudible] so if that’s the case the conventioneers are looking to come to Augusta and everybody can’t [inaudible] Radisson or stay at the Sheraton or a combination of hotels [inaudible]. [inaudible] if I’m going to bring a convention and it’s a [inaudible] group, and I ask the question, and I call and I say where can we house these people [inaudible] then – and [inaudible] I think we need to know that. Because part of us wants to turn this over to CVB. Now if there is a problem already existing in that vein, then I think that does give us something to talk about [inaudible]. But to a point, I just need to know that. Because I read it but I’ve not heard it. And I need to know that. Mr. Mayor: [inaudible] Mr. White: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. To answer your question, Mr. Mays, we are promoting that facility. We do have some events that are scheduled to take place in that facility, including a Mustang Grand National Car Show, Southeast Region. It’s going to take place Labor Day. I think it’s Alpha Kappa Alpha sorority that’s going to be meeting there with a couple of thousand delegates. We are working on some other conventions as well and have a meeting actually scheduled with the staff of the Civic Center next week to renew some of those bids that are out. There is no formal motion on our board, from our board that says do not market that facility. Mr. Mays: And that’s what I needed to hear from you. Because I mean if I read that in a story line or if I read that in an editorial and I’m the first one [inaudible] I believe in that old Gladys Knight song, you know, [inaudible] half of what you see and 76 basically none of what you hear. But [inaudible] the question. Now I need to get that out in a public meeting to a point because if I read that to a point say your organization is doing that, then I need to know whether or not that’s the board, because we have a building there that the public has invested in. Now if we need to run everybody off to a point of starting a new board, that might be something that [inaudible] but to a point I don’t think any organization should be – and you answered the question – but I’m going to say how I feel about it. I think that [inaudible] should make a decision to a point [inaudible] on a building that is built with public funds, even if something went wrong or something went bad. [inaudible] try and correct it, you make proposals, you come before [inaudible] and say [inaudible] change what they’re doing and [inaudible] to what Mr. Kuhlke [inaudible] that type of dialog [inaudible]. I’m glad to [inaudible]. You know, I thought I [inaudible]. But I’m glad I’m not the only one now that’s realizing [inaudible]. So you know, I think that that [inaudible] creative things [inaudible]. We need to talk about everything from [inaudible], we need to talk about what’s occupying it, why you can’t attract certain events, why you can’t even promote [inaudible] going out to get other shows, to get [inaudible] because I’m going to tell you what happens now on my side of town. Now you know, Mr. Kuhlke’s motion sounds good to where it is, but see now, there are all sorts of people [inaudible] motion has got out here. There’s some folks that [inaudible] Coliseum Authority and the building just die a slow death. See, I’ve been [inaudible] folks already made that kind of decision. [inaudible] and I just want to make sure that for those folk who stop me in Wal-Mart, who stop me on the corner of Laney- Walker and James Brown Boulevard, that I can answer them truthfully what’s going on with the motion and have a honest discussion with [inaudible] not about a way to [inaudible]. Now some times [inaudible] table. Quite frankly, [inaudible]. Now [inaudible] and why all this all of a sudden to a point [inaudible]. [inaudible] it ought to be cleaned up. It ought to be in immaculate condition. [inaudible] alternatives out there. [inaudible] to a point if you walk between the aisle [inaudible] 20 or 30 years ago that were not broad minded enough, who fought the original Coliseum ideas of how it should have been built and came along with [inaudible]. But that’s a whole other deal [inaudible]. Now, where you’ve got a situation there that would [inaudible] I want to make sure that we’re not playing a [inaudible] here, that we don’t have a [inaudible] to a point that set the tone to eliminate what’s there, then all of a sudden you eliminate the building and then my [inaudible] quite frankly, cause I don’t pull no punches, my question for asking [inaudible] being promoted, I didn’t wanted to [inaudible] to a point if it’s not being promoted now, that you get [inaudible] not promoting it in the future and that you basically [inaudible] that it dies, goes out of business, it become defunct and [inaudible] once you don’t have an Authority, once you don’t have [inaudible]. Guess what? [inaudible] talk about what’s really the deal and what game’s on the table, then you [inaudible] cause we all [inaudible]. If you don’t want to talk about the real thing, [inaudible] but if you’re a man, talk about what you really want to talk about. So now [inaudible] to deal with it, but I think you ought to be men enough to deal with what the real thing is about. So now let’s [inaudible] another way [inaudible]. I agree, we shouldn’t be operating out of a filthy building. It ought to be creative, it ought to be receptive to ideas, and receptive to criticism. [inaudible] it comes with the territory. But also it comes with an element of fairness [inaudible]. [inaudible] just be a man about 77 what you feel. That’s the only thing I’m saying about both motions and I ain’t going to vote, quite frankly, for either one of them. Mr. Mayor: Let me ask this. Is there anyone who has not spoken yet on this issue that would like to speak before we start revisiting folks who have already spoken? Mr. Boyles. Mr. Boyles: Mr. Mayor, I kind of felt left out. Mr. Colclough hasn’t had anything to say, but you know, I go to the Wal-Mart, too, just like Mr. Mays alluded to, and people say well, why don’t you all do something about the Civic Center, and the perception to the general public out there is that it is our responsibility. It’s [inaudible] responsibility in case it fails over there, then the bonded indebtedness falls on the full faith and credit of the taxpayers of Richmond County. The Legislative Delegation, when it was set up, when this government was set up, they kept, I believe it’s the only board of its kind that keeps four appointments. This Commission appoints eight members to that. Our two Super Districts don’t have, don’t appoint a member. Mr. Mays: Thank goodness. Mr. Boyles: So [inaudible]. There is a general perception, to the general person on the street out there that that, that this is a Commission responsibility. And what we need to get the message out, because everybody has postured today and everybody has taken a position on this and so we still come back with this same problem. No matter what we want to call it, we still come back with an image problem for the City of Augusta. I just took a moment to walk down and ask Ms. Minchew from the Board of Education because I remembered something about the Board is not going to have their graduations down at the Civic Center, and she told me because all of them now are building football stadiums. Each school is going to have its own stadium, that some of the principals have chosen to do that. But I guarantee you that somewhere along that line, there was a cost factor involved, too. And I said this a long time ago that we have taken the word “civic” out of Civic Center. I think by us being so focused, by this community being so focused on how much money is lost over there, that we have kind of put them in the position of where they kind of had to raise higher rates than they should have, they may be charging people more, and it takes the “civic” out of Civic Center because all folks in this community can’t use it. Try to book a party of there, try to book a meeting room over there. I met with a civic club, I was and still am in a civic club that started over there in 1978, when the Civic Center first opened. We left a restaurant and went over there and stayed there until three years ago, when the cost and the general condition of the building caused us to leave. And there were others, too. The Augusta Exchange Club. I don’t know if Steve’s Lions Club is still meeting over there. But they’ve had problems. We can talk to Georgia Food Service, we can talk to a lot of other organizations other than United Methodists who are not coming back to Augusta because of the condition. We can start with one of our own, that’s Georgia Recreation & Parks, not coming back to Augusta because of it. I just wanted to make those comments, Mr. Mayor. I wanted to be a little briefer, but I think that some of us have a genuine concern about what does go on over there and we all realize any form of civic centers do lose 78 money. They’re designed to lose money. We do have, they do have, they won’t ever go broke, they won’t ever go out of business because we’ve got – as long as people keep buying beer, that is, they won’t ever go out of business. Because it is the house that beer built. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Colclough, would you like to say anything? Mr. Colclough: Not today. [inaudible] Mr. Kuhlke: [inaudible] Mr. Mayor: But you sit up here and you get a little cranky. (Laughter) Mr. Kuhlke: I wanted to make this clear to the Commission. When I decided to put this on the agenda, I spoke with Barry White to let him know that I was going to put it on the agenda. And the purpose of him being here today is because he knew it was going to be on the agenda and he had no idea what was going to happen. I have full – they haven’t requested or anything else. But I know that they are a professional organization, they have a tremendous reputation throughout this state, I know that they would be capable of handling the job, should the Commission decide to do that. But I just wanted to make that clear, that I only made him aware that I was going to put it on the agenda. Period. That’s it. And from the standpoint of answering Mr. Mays, my interest is maximizing what can be done at the Civic Center for the betterment of this community and its citizens and that’s it. Purely. It’s not to build a new arena. Mr. Mayor: All right. We’ve got two motions on the floor. [inaudible] we’ll go back to Mr. Cheek and Mr. Hankerson and y’all be brief, I’d appreciate it. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, if I remember correctly, at our last meeting with the Delegation, we discussed if we did not outline any method of the Coliseum Authority as far as expectations for performance for the year. Therefore, they were left to go back over to the Coliseum and develop their own path to follow, many of them lacking the promotional or business experience to look over operating systems to see where their costs were and how to reduce them, how to look at many other aspects of it and come up with strategies to help the Civic Center perform, but also to meet our expectations and the expectations of the people of this city. I would like for us to get together with our Delegation members as soon as possible and not do typically what politicians do and say okay, we’ve talked to y’all, we’ve slapped you on the wrist, now go and do better. Let’s outline expectations. Because yes, it is true, museums and other large venues like this typically don’t pay for themselves, but the one [inaudible] over the past three years have the number of beds that have been slept in by people who have attended events at that Civic Center increased or decreased? Now I can massage numbers all day long and make them look really good. But the fact of the matter is we’re on a declining curve of attendees at that facility. That [inaudible] makes us, the Coliseum Authority and the 79 Legislative Delegation, who are embarrassed about this, just like we are. I’ve talked with the citizens of Augusta, and yes, a new civic center is DOA when it comes to SPLOST. So we’re going to have to make what we’ve got work. [inaudible] the voters decide if they want to pay extra money for a new civic center somewhere else, but we’ve got to make this one work. But until we give the board a specific set of goals that we expect them to achieve in the coming year, like establishing performance goals for whatever manager they put in place, numbers of events that we expect to have over and above hockey, days the arena will be filled with conventions, until we start setting goals for this board to achieve [inaudible] own devices and I’m telling you, I think I’ve got probably the most accurate report from that Civic Center in the course of my [inaudible] representative that you can get. I’ve seen the beds where the employees sleep. I’ve seen the places where the air conditioners were repaired on company time. I’ve seen the holes in the bathrooms that were ordered repaired over the years. I’ve seen the dirt. I’ve seen the broken systems that nobody listened to about getting repaired. I’ve seen the lack of concern where we have broken roof tiles that could have been fixed for $25 that cost more than $5,000 to fix after they completely fell through. I got a pretty good handle on what’s going on over there. None of us can afford to keep it going the way it is. It makes us all look bad. This board – I’m an optimist. Sometimes. This board, this new board over there has lot some good people because of the bickering, the black, the white, the men, the women, the old, the young. And I don’t care. The bickering. People not coming to meetings. People acting like children when they should act like adults. You may not believe it should make money, but dad gum it, you should at least try to make it break even, and if you don’t you need to get off the board. Augusta is a great venue for a lot of things. I’ve seen Elton John, Bon Jovi, Bob Dylan, Reba McEntyre, some of the best acts in the world right across the street. We can attract the people. Have we done it lately? All I can say is, Mr. Mayor, let us with due diligence reach out to our Legislative Delegation, who are equally embarrassed, as soon as possible, and come up with a strategy, a [inaudible] strategy, whether it’s abolish it, give them goals and guidelines, or let it go like it is. But let’s not do this without a plan and let’s [inaudible] plan [inaudible]. If Commissioner Colclough and I can facilitate a meeting to develop a specific list of SPLOST projects in under an hour, I bet between six or eight politicians we could develop a specific list of goals in anticipation of the civic center in under an hour. Let’s give them that list, and if they don’t perform then let’s abolish it. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Hankerson. Mr. Hankerson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I keep hearing the problems that we say is with the board and I think our expectations of the board is more than we expect of ourselves. And the more I hear people talk about the different things that happened – now one thing I keep hearing about it was a food problem. The Methodists didn’t come back because of the food problem. I never heard anyone – and we have a board member in here, I’d like for him to take this back for unfinished business – cause the board has some unfinished business. They fired Reggie Williams. Reggie didn’t cook the food. But the food, the catering service is still there that served the bad food. If Reggie had of been there, right on the spot, the food was already prepared, the service was already bad. He couldn’t correct that. Nobody has said well, we abolish [inaudible] board members, 80 the Coliseum board, we need to make sure that we abolish that catering service over there. They’re still there. They served the bad food. If it was awful, then we should deal with that. If I got a food committee at the church, the church ain’t going to fire me for the food. They are going to tell me to get rid of that committee. That’s [inaudible]. And also about losing money. We know all these things about uncleanliness and all of this, but they should be responsible [inaudible]. If you are already in the [inaudible] clean up the building? You don’t have anything. Nobody offers. [inaudible] how could we help them or maybe some [inaudible] to clean it up. If they don’t have [inaudible] they cannot do it. And we talking about how much money that they are spending. And I heard my colleague say all these repairs need to be done. Take a look at the jail house. We are spending $1 million a year in maintenance and that’s an awful place and we supervise that. And we are still spending $1 million every year in repairs. [inaudible] security system [inaudible] was over there the other day. Water, the office [inaudible] wet carpet, with our computer system that we just put in. Is wet. Nobody [inaudible] responsible for. But we need to address the real problems of this [inaudible] and I just think that [inaudible] we need to make sure that the [inaudible] how they [inaudible] contract [inaudible] and I think that should be taken care of and [inaudible]. So I mean we had a lot of problems over there [inaudible] new people but I hope that the next meeting will be a very successful meeting and that we can do some things and the city move forward. We all need to work together in doing that. Mr. Mayor: Anything further before we go to vote? I think Barry wanted to say something. Mr. White: If I could, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. One more [inaudible] in response to Mr. Mays. I can say that it has been extremely challenging to market that facility and to promote that facility. And it is becoming an issue around the state. It’s becoming well known. There’s a network of planners and people out there who host meetings. And it makes it extremely challenging to promote that facility. I also agree that it is, that a tremendous amount of improvement must take place over there very quickly. Every day that we go that it is not improving, we are losing business, the city is losing convention revenue and we’re losing a quality of life through activities and events. And I believe it is up to this board or to this body to make that decision and if the CVB can be of assistance in helping you with that decision, providing information, we here and more than willing to do that. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Ready to vote, Mr. Beard? Mr. Beard: I just wanted to say something Barry. That I think that you said it is extremely difficult to [inaudible] the Civic Center. I think that [inaudible] sometimes [inaudible] really conflicts with what we are trying to [inaudible] to the city. And I think that [inaudible] statement that you know [inaudible]. They say the same thing about this body [inaudible]. It’s really [inaudible] to bring [inaudible]. [inaudible] people in this time have [inaudible] being said and because of some of the decisions that have been made over there [inaudible] and I think we [inaudible]. 81 Mr. Mayor: Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: I just wanted to follow up what Mr. Beard said, Barry. I am thankful for what you do, but if it’s as difficult as you say it is, look like you would have a solution as to what is the problem [inaudible] hard to promote and [inaudible] why it’s hard to promote it. And if nothing else, talk with us about it. But when you say it’s hard to promote it and you walk away, I mean it could be any number of things. But if there is something specific that you know in that field that we’re not doing or they’re not doing, you need to bring to this board so we can direct our appointees and [inaudible]. I mean I think the board want to work with [inaudible]. I appreciate your effort and your comments, that’s all. Mr. Mayor: Let me just say one, one brief thing, and that is that I wouldn’t want you to get the impression that we’re not supportive of the Civic Center. Indeed, Barry and I last fall went up to Atlanta and met with the Bishop of the North Georgia Methodist Church and we personally apologized to him for the treatment of the Methodists in this community and asked them to give us another chance, and they promised to give us another chance in 2005. So we’ve got two years and the clock is ticking. And I think [inaudible] if you’re not going to vote for any of them, that’s your choice today. But the point is we’ve got some issues that have got to be dealt with, indeed that clock is ticking. We have a substitute motion from Commissioner Cheek. Does anyone need that motion read back? Okay, we’d like to have it read back, Madame Clerk. The Clerk: Commissioner Cheek’s motion was to confer with the Legislative Delegation at the next work session, to require full financial report [inaudible] with the intent to abolish the Civic Center or come up with an action plan to resolve the problems in a professional manner. Mr. Mayor: All in favor of that motion, the substitute motion, please vote in the affirmative. (Vote on substitute motion) Mr. Boyles, Mr. Kuhlke, Mr. Shepard and Mr. Hankerson vote No. Mr. Williams abstains. Mr. Mays out. Motion fails 4-4-1. Mr. Mayor: That takes us back to the original motion from Commissioner Kuhlke. You need the original motion read? All right, we’ll proceed to vote on the original motion. All in favor of the original motion then please vote in the affirmative. (Vote on original motion) Mr. Beard, Mr. Bridges, Mr. Colclough and Mr. Cheek vote No. Mr. Williams abstains. Mr. Mays out. Motion fails 4-4-1. 82 Mr. Mayor: We’ll move along with the order of the day. The Clerk: 34A. Discuss the decaling of city vehicles. (Requested by Commissioner Marion Williams) Mr. Mayor: Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I asked this be put on the agenda. I asked for a report from the Administrator about the decaling of city vehicles and [inaudible] with the Airport Director. I’ve got some photographs, if the Clerk could pass those out. The state law says that any public employee or public funded vehicle would have an affixed seal on the front door on each side. And also our, our own city ordinance says that the vehicle will have a 12” x 3” decal designating the department. And also it says between 12” to 18” affixed below the circular decal [inaudible]. The pictures that are passed out to you are pictures that when I saw the new Expedition, the Eddie Bauer edition that we all had the reference about, had a decal that was very easy to remove. It wasn’t even a stick-on decal. It was a magnet type decal. And it was at each side of the door. I pulled the decal up and I turned it upside down like in the photograph like I want you to see that this is a public piece of equipment, a public vehicle that the city is responsible for and it’s not to be used, I wouldn’t think, at any other time. But with this type of decal not being affixed, it might not be decaled at all. So I brought this to this committee, to this body. The Administrator gave us a report saying that everybody had complied. I talked with Ron over in Fleet Management. He said that his job was to provide the decals, his job was not to put them on, but he provide the decals so they could be put on. But somebody had to go out of their way, Mr. Mayor, to even purchase this type of decal. This is not the regular standard piece of equipment. This is not what our ordinance states nor what the state law says. And I think that [inaudible] decaled properly and I think somebody need to answer for the reasoning the decal the way it is. And I just wanted to bring that to the full Commission so we can make some [inaudible] some change, something, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Are you asking for something specific? Mr. Williams: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor: Are you making a motion? Mr. Williams: I’m making a motion that we have the decals affixed, decals prescribed by the ordinance of the state and our own city ordinance, Mr. Mayor, and not a stick on or something capable of being pulled off at the will of whoever is driving it. Mr. Colclough: Second. 83 Mr. Mayor: We have a motion and second. Mr. Cheek: Is that going to be in leather or vinyl? Mr. Wall: Your motion ought to be clarified. It’s city policy, not ordinance. Mr. Williams: Well, city policy. Mr. Wall: [inaudible] Mr. Williams: Okay, city policy, but this is a state law. Mr. Wall: [inaudible] doesn’t say what size. Mr. Williams: The city policy says what size. The state law says affixed. We are the city so we just made the size. Mr. Mayor: Sounds like the taxi cab discussion. Mr. Williams: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor: Is it magnetic or is it [inaudible] or what? Mr. Williams: I think the [inaudible] to be attached. Mr. Mayor: All right, we have a motion that has been seconded. Is there further discussion on the motion? We’ll go ahead and call the question. All in favor of the question, please vote in the affirmative. Mr. Shepard votes No. Mr. Beard and Mr. Kuhlke out. Motion carries 7-1. Mr. Wall: May I ask a question? Mr. Mayor: Go ahead, Mr. Attorney. Mr. Wall: Is there any objection to the Augusta-Bush Field logo being used as part of the decal? I mean the policy that was written, I think is the city seal basically – Mr. Speaker: [inaudible] Mr. Wall: All right. [inaudible] 84 Mr. Williams: Okay. And the city seal, what was [inaudible], I missed that. [inaudible] along with the aviation on the bottom of that? Mr. Wall: It will be like this, I assume. Be the proper size. [inaudible] Mr. Mayor: Mr. Kolb, if you would be kind enough by memo to certify to the Commissioners that that, that that has been done and report back to us? All right, Mr. Wall, I think you have the next item, number 35. ATTORNEY: 35. Motion to approve ordinance amending Augusta-Richmond County Code §3-6-2(b) regulating radios, phonographs, and similar devices. Mr. Wall: This is the noise ordinance. I put it in the agenda items where Judge Jennings had struck down one sub-paragraph of the noise ordinance and the amendment to the ordinance puts in an “objective man” standard and in order to have an ordinance in effect to prohibit loud playing of phonographs and radios and bands and things of that nature that we’ve had problems with in the past [inaudible] bars and lounges [inaudible] be amended and the language is included in the ordinance. I ask that you approve that and ask that you consider waiving the second reading. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Wall, let me ask a couple of questions. Would this specifically include public address systems? Mr. Wall: Well, this is – yes, it would. [inaudible] device producing or reproducing a sound in a matter so as to disturb [inaudible]. Mr. Mayor: And so this not only would apply to music coming from night clubs and bars, but also some outdoor concerts at Riverwalk or the Augusta Common or First Friday or anything like that? Mr. Wall: Well, I mean, it would if it’s between the hours of 11 p.m. and 7 a.m. Mr. Mayor: So by 11 o’clock at night all the music has got to – Mr. Wall: Well, I mean – Mr. Mayor: [inaudible] outdoor concerts downtown [inaudible] Mr. Wall: [inaudible] and I think people that [inaudible] Riverwalk and living next to events like that understand it. But people that are living in neighborhoods or backing up to some of the clubs that are on Washington Road, which is where this incident took place, I mean we’ve had problems through the years [inaudible] going back to the 70’s where some of them were playing the stereo, the bands and everything so loud that the surrounding neighborhoods could hear. And it was struck down and that’s the 85 problem that this ordinance was intended to address. For example, if you live next door to Augusta Common [inaudible]. Mr. Mayor: Does this apply to these boom boxes that people have in their automobiles? Mr. Wall: That’s not what it’s intended to apply to, no. Mr. Mayor: It would not apply? Mr. Wall: [inaudible] we’re talking about [inaudible], we’re not talking about [inaudible]. If you’ve got somebody that parks out in the neighborhood and [inaudible] then I think [inaudible]. Mr. Mayor: Right, but it wouldn’t apply until after 11 o’clock at night, so if they had it going at 10:30, it wouldn’t apply. Mr. Wall: That’s correct. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Let’s go around the table here. I think – start with Mr. Boyles and then we’ll go around. Mr. Boyles: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. About two weeks ago, I got a call from the neighborhood back behind the skating rink on Washington Road. And the noise had gotten so bad, I went up to investigate just to hear it, and the noise really gets loud out there. So I called Sheriff Strength at home. We found out that Judge Jennings had overturned the ordinance that we had. Had Sheriff Strength go up there and have them turn it down on Friday night, and they did. But brother, the neighborhood paid for it the next Saturday and Sunday night, because they stepped it up a little bit higher than it was. Now then that also – I’ve been talking with Sheriff Strength, they also have this problem out at North Leg with the teen night clubs. The people back behind those locations don’t even want to stay home on Saturday and Sunday nights any more. And because, I think, Jim, Judge Jennings said what may be loud in the senses to you may not be loud in the senses to me. But it seemed that the part of our ordinance that did not hold up, and I asked Mr. Wall to address it, this is what he has come back with and I hope that all of you will see this for the sanctity of the people who live in our neighborhoods, that this is not intended, I don’t think, if you’re out at Butler High School and they’ve got the PA system going for a football game, a public address system, I don’t think that should count into it because it’s not after 11 o’clock, when Mr. Wall is talking from 11 to 7. But it’s awful difficult, if you live up around Westside High School, back in those neighborhoods behind that roller rink up there, to have to put up with this, and so I’m just going to ask you that -- and beg you and plead with you for the people all over these night spots across the county to support this. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Wall, you want to clarify something? 86 Mr. Wall: Well, the prohibited noises that are enumerated go from paragraph A through P. However many letters of the alphabet that is. You’ve got the horns and signaling devices, and I’m not going to read all of it. You’ve got the loud speakers and amplifiers for advertising, the yelling, shouting, etc. again between those hours. Steam whistles, exhaust, defects in the vehicular load, construction repair buildings, interfering with school sports, places of worship, hospitals, office [inaudible], noise to attract attention, transportation of metal rails, blowers, [inaudible] trucks, etc. These have all been carried forward from the County Code and the City Code. The only sub-paragraph that was at issue was the radios, the phonographs and similar devices. And that’s the one that the Court struck down and the only one that we’re dealing with. But there are other provisions, noises that are prohibited. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Colclough. Mr. Colclough: I mean that doesn’t – I mean that’s fine and I appreciate what you’re doing. But I know, as in my neighborhood, we’ve got these youngsters with these $3 cars and $200 speakers in them. And they come into the neighborhood, I mean before even 10 o’clock, and these things are shaking the community. Now if we already have that law on the books, then I think someone needs to send over to our Sheriff’s Department that they need to be able to enforce some of these laws we have on the books. We’ve got these youngsters with these old cars, and I mean at two o’clock in the morning, I’m calling the police department. It takes them forever to get there, but I mean it’s [inaudible] by the time a cop gets there. They call me, do you want me to come to your house? The music ain’t coming out of my house. It’s coming out of the community. I think the ordinance is good. I think we need to do something to strengthen the ordinance and kind of broaden it a little bit where, you know, a lot of this stuff can be curtailed, you know. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Cheek and then Mr. Williams. Mr. Cheek: [inaudible] scientific instrument like a [inaudible] which is what the industry standard is for these stereos and all anyway? Mr. Wall: Well, there are some ordinances out there that we looked at that do have that. The problem with that, in my opinion, is that you then are going to have to equip a lot of officers, not necessarily every one, with those sound measuring devices so that they can go out there before they can write a ticket. And so I asked the one who was drafting the ordinance to come up with something other than that because in my opinion that’s an added cost, it’s a delay insofar as getting people out there, you are going to have one in each precinct, you’re going to have one on each shift, or put one in every car. I mean it seemed impractical to me, but we did look at that. Mr. Cheek: It’s not nearly as expensive as a radar gun. [inaudible] industry standard. And [inaudible] calibrations [inaudible] measurement at a given number of feet. 87 Mr. Wall: I agree with you, but the radar gun – I mean you’ve got many, many, many cars that it’s used on, whereas this, I mean you’ve got bars and events going on around the city, and I didn’t know, quite frankly, how it would be practical to use that. I mean I think an officer would have to go back to the station somewhere, pick it up, take it out there – Mr. Cheek: It’s only about – I mean they’re very tiny. Mr. Wall: That’s an option. Mr. Cheek: And you can drive by in a car and turn it on and hold it out the window. I mean it’s a simple thing to tell. I guess there are two other questions. I’m like, I’m like Richard. We need to strengthen this. When that glass of iced tea on my dining room table is jerking around from the car that’s driving down the street, my internal organs are doing the same thing. Those people need to be fined. Can we include language into this [inaudible] hearing on a traffic accident. Every time they picked someone up for noise violation, they doubled the fine. Is there any way we can strengthen this ordinance to where they have that kind of penalty for playing their music so loud? Mr. Wall: Well, I mean you could, you could put in a provision recommending that the second offense [inaudible], you would have an elevated fine structure. What we currently do, however, is leave that up to the Courts. For each offense that’s included in our Code, we authorize up to the maximum penalty, rather than for most offenses creating a staggered fine system, and leave it up to the Court to do that. Mr. Cheek: Can you [inaudible] Commission as far as how this is disruptive to our neighborhoods? Mr. Wall: I think the Court recognizes that it’s disruptive to the neighborhoods but the Court found the language of the existing statute was not specifically [inaudible] enough. And while I understand that measuring the decibel level is a foolproof system, what I was looking for was one such that an officer, you know, utilizing this standard could make the charge without having to call the lieutenant out, without having to go back to the station, could deal with the problem on the scene, without equipping every officer with such a device. And if y’all want to do it the other way, that’s fine, but I think there will be a cost involved. In my opinion, this corrects the problem which allows it to stand and basically the same ordinance we had in effect, but with an objective standard. Mr. Cheek: $100 per car, it would pay for itself in one citation, and then you’ve got something that’s pretty foolproof. I know radar has stood the test of time in Court. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Williams, you need to talk to the Attorney or is there something you wanted to – 88 Mr. Williams: I think I [inaudible], Mr. Mayor. This here is a very serious problem. I had several neighbors to contact me and I went out and I had a conversation with a young man who has an automobile he cranks up in the morning, he get ready to go to work, and he lets the music warm up when he lets his car warm up. And so I called the Sheriff’s Department and naturally by the time they got there, he has done gone. So I thought he had a scanner to know when they was directing or dispatching a car. Well, find out he didn’t, he just – the length of time. So I went back and talked to the young man several times and finally I had to call Ronnie again, [inaudible] not here, but I call the Sheriff and I talked with him. He sent an officer out and the officer gave him a citation. He went to the Court and it got better. But the neighbors are afraid to come to the door out [inaudible]. They will not come to the door. You go knock on the door, the young kids of playing loud music, I say young kids, young adults. Playing loud music in their front yards, working on their cars, and if you go over and tell them something then you got problems. So I promised the neighbors that they wouldn’t have to be fearful of the loud noise. And it’s gotten better, Jim, but there’s a serious problem with these people coming through the neighborhoods. Three o’clock in the morning with the music just blasting. I told the young man I know your favorite song. I hear it every time you come in. And I said I like music myself but you ought to be respectful and at least respect the neighborhood. Well, after he got that ticket, he got better. The other night I had to call the Sheriff’s Department who came to my address. I had no problem them coming to me cause I was willing to go around there with them to show them this young man. And find out it was somebody else playing music next door to them. So to make a long story short, Jim, we’ve got to do something to let these people understand they can’t come in and tear up a neighborhood. That’s what happening to the neighborhood. We have sit back and let them come in and not been aggressive in changing those things. So I need to know from you what – Mr. Wall: Let me correct one thing. This does apply to vehicles. I apologize for that error. I looked back. So it does deal with vehicles so that the situation that you talked about – Mr. Williams: But it’s only in effect after 11 o’clock? Mr. Colclough: We need to change that. Mr. Williams: That really need to be changed. Any time. Mr. Wall: That’s the current ordinance and that’s the way I kept it, I brought it forward, just correcting the defect that the Court found. If you want to have multiple definitions, we can use this as it is, then we can create another one that uses a decibel level any hour of the day, and maybe that will cover both situations. And then I think that there is going to be a funding issue, but y’all can address that at the appropriate time. Mr. Williams: Well, I got a neighbor that said her pictures come off the wall every time the young man cranks his speakers up and said she just quit putting them on the wall. And that’s really bad. 89 Mr. Wall: What I would ask you to do is plug the hole at this point by passing this ordinance and let me come back and bring another ordinance that addresses those provisions that you’re concerned about, putting in a decibel level, and I will track some ordinances that are already on the books that set a level. Mr. Cheek: OSHA has got ear damage standards. Mr. Williams: Jim, don’t we have some on the books already for vehicles, loud music and stuff? Mr. Wall: The ordinance was struck down that has that provision in it. What I’m trying to do is put it back in. Mr. Williams: So move. Move for approval. Mr. Shepard: I want to second Mr. Williams’ motion. Jim, the problem is if we follow our usual ordinance procedure, there would be nothing in force this weekend; is that correct? Mr. Wall: That’s correct. Mr. Shepard: So I was wondering if the maker of the motion would waive the second reading so we can go ahead and get the plug in place? I think it is a sufficient problem, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, that Mr. Boyles brought up that we need to have some [inaudible] on the books by Saturday night, isn’t that right? Mr. Boyles: Friday night. I would ask the maker to add the waiver of the Mr. Shepard: Friday night. second reading and I’ll second that as well. Mr. Williams: I can accept that. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Cheek. Mr. Cheek: But this does include automobiles? Mr. Wall: Yes. Mr. Cheek: And is it usable during the daytime hours? Mr. Wall: No. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: [inaudible] 90 Mr. Cheek: Can we pass this and come back with one that is going to deal with [inaudible]? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Wall, what’s the time frame you are coming back with this second ordinance if we pass this? When we will have the second ordinance? Mr. Wall: I’ll have it back the first meeting in August. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: The first meeting in Augusta. Any further discussion? We’ve got a motion and second on the floor. Any further discussion? Mr. Wall: Let me ask this. [inaudible] what the cost of the equipment and how – I don’t know that I would have that by the first meeting in August. Mr. Cheek: I can – I have [inaudible] that I work with. I can – Mr. Wall: [inaudible] Sheriff’s Department [inaudible]. Mr. Cheek: Okay. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Well, we need something back. Mr. Speaker: Better have the Sheriff in on that. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: We need something back by the first – we can deal with the decibels anytime, we can add the decibels, is that correct? But we need something – Mr. Wall: If you are going to do it in the daytime, I think you need to tie it to a decibel level. Mr. Cheek: [inaudible] put the meter on them. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: So you’re saying the second meeting in August? Mr. Wall: [inaudible] cost of [inaudible] Mr. Williams: Let me say this now. They ain’t going to set there and let a police car pull up there and listen to their music and so I mean you ain’t going to be able to get it that way. But I think if a neighbor complains and there is sufficient complaints, we need to do something on that. Because if you wait till when they come down the street, they – even now they got enough sense to cut the music down. So I think Andy’s idea is a great one, but let’s not fool ourselves. They ain’t going to sit there and say well, I’m too loud. This is extremely loud. This ain’t where you’re saying I hear it in the next room. This is extremely loud stuff. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Three blocks over. 91 Mr. Williams: That’s right. And sometimes you can’t tell which direction it coming from, it’s so loud. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: We’re going to have the second ordinance back the second week – gentlemen, we’re going to have the second ordinance back the second week in August, the second meeting in August. Mr. Cheek: We’re going to waive the second reading then and then have – Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Waive the second reading on this. Mr. Cheek: I will get you training and price figures, too, pretty quickly. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Okay, gentlemen, we’ve got a motion and second on the floor. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion, please signify by the sign of voting. Mr. Beard, Mr. Kuhlke and Mr. Hankerson out. Motion caries 7-0. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Madame Clerk, next item. The Clerk: Mr. Wall. Mr. Wall: 36. Motion to approve the extension of Chief Tax Appraiser’s contract through December 31, 2003, at a monthly salary of $7,147.00 per month. Mr. Wall: You’ll recall that the existing contract runs through August 6 of this year and the Commission instructed that I got back and seek an extension of the contract. I met with the Personnel Committee of the Board of Tax Assessors, along with Mr. Reece, and the recommendation and the agreement from the Board of Tax Assessors was that they wanted to extend the contract through December 31 at a monthly rate of $7,147.00 per month, which, so that you will know, is the dollar amount that they recommended for the original contract. However, there would be no obligation beyond December 31. This is an interim measure to carry you through December 31 as a part of the review of the financial information, as well as review of the budget for the Board of Tax Assessors, you then will have the opportunity to address a longer term contract. But this is the recommendation from the Board of Tax Assessors and I recommend approval of this. Mr. Mays: So move. Mr. Cheek: Second. 92 Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Motion and second on the floor. Discussion? Mr. Shepard. Mr. Shepard: Thank you. Sonny, while you’re here, could you give us some indication of how the mobile home – I can tell you about one case where the mobile home taxes got caught up. But can you tell us about that across the board? That was a part of the revenue that we thought we could find and my question is how much of it have we found, if you could speak to that? That was one thing you brought to us. Mr. Reece: Well, I can probably give it to you off the top of my head. Mr. Shepard: Ballpark it. Mr. Reece: Ballpark it. The mobile home inspectors themselves [inaudible] cost benefit analysis, at the budget hearings, preliminary budget hearings, Mr. Kolb asked for a report and I emailed him that report I think yesterday. It shows that they have made – just the inspectors – have dropped 475 door hangers. We had 139 responses, of which 59 of those were homesteaded mobile homes that the decals were not displayed or they were already prebilled 2003 mobile homes that they had not been displayed. 99 responses have come in, generating approximately $18,000 from just that portion. We have 241 non-responses that are being researched, the owners, in process of being turned over to the Marshal to start through the Court process. The average, average tax that we’ve collected on these units is $163+ per unit. Some have been less and some have been more. This has also allowed us to free up the other mobile home inspector, our fulltime one, and which I believe the total revenues to date from those combined is approximately $88,000. Mr. Shepard: And if I could, one more follow-up, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Your pro forma – refresh my memory, if you could, the projection we would realize about, you remember about how much we realized in excess revenue over the cost of these [inaudible]? Mr. Reece: Yes, sir, it was going to be about $50,000 - $60,000 over. If you take the average collections that we have just for those two employees on the 99 that we tracked for them, with the 214 or 217 that’s outstanding to be processed using that average, that would be generating a total of $51,000 in revenues for the three month period that we’ve had them employed versus the cost of $15,000 – no, $11,000 plus about $600 worth of mileage. Mr. Shepard: And this would be recurring? I mean decals are an annual – Mr. Reece: Decals would be an annual reoccurrence that would be on the digest. We would not have to worry about that again. [inaudible] picture on that. Mr. Shepard: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. 93 Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Any further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion, please signify by the sign of voting. Mr. Beard, Mr. Kuhlke and Mr. Hankerson out. Motion carries 7-0. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Next item. Mr. Shepard: No legal. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: No legal meeting. [MEETING ADJOURNED] Lena J. Bonner Clerk of Commission CERTIFICATION: I, Lena J. Bonner, Clerk of Commission, hereby certify that the above is a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular Meeting of Augusta Richmond County Commission held on July 15, 2003. ______________________________ Clerk of Commission 94