HomeMy WebLinkAbout06-11-2003 Called Meeting
CALLED MEETING COMMISSION CHAMBER
THE AUGUSTA COMMISSION June 11, 2003
SPLOST V CITIZENS COMMITTEE
Augusta Richmond County Commission and the SPLOST V Citizens Committee
convened at 2:00 p.m., Wednesday, June 11, 2003, the Honorable Bob Young, Mayor,
presiding.
PRESENT: Hons. Hankerson, Boyles, Mays, Colclough, Shepard, Cheek,
Williams and Bridges, members of Augusta Richmond County Commission; Tarver,
Burney, Powell, Charles, members of SPLOST V Citizens Committee.
ABSENT: Hons. Beard and Kuhlke, members of Augusta Richmond County
Commission.
Also Present: Jim Wall, Attorney; George Kolb, Administrator and Lena Bonner,
Clerk of Commission.
The Invocation was given by Rev. Larry Hudson.
The Pledge of Allegiance was recited.
Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Please be seated. We’re going to meet in round table
fashion today. I want to thank the Commissioners who are here today and our staff folks,
and then I want to thank you members of the citizens SPLOST committee who have
come in a little early today to join with us. We know your task is not easy. We know
you’re spending a lot of time working on it, not just in weekly meetings, but beyond the
meetings. And your community appreciates the service that you’re giving us. The first
item on the agenda is to receive from Mr. Wall today a report regarding the use of the
SPLOST funds, what the ins and out and legalities and I see that you brought your law
book so we’re well prepared for the questions.
Mr. Wall: Well, I was fearful of not bringing the law book because I think y’all --
it may be a question and answer session more so than it is a briefing on my part. But let
me just go through the general provisions and then try to respond to any questions, if
that’s agreeable. First of all, the Special Purpose Local Option Sales Tax is for capital
projects, and that’s the important thing. It has to be for capital projects. I cannot be for
operations or for maintenance. And so therefore, all of the projects that you’re looking at
should be capital expenditures. Now having said that, the, there are certain categories of
projects that are specifically listed in the Code section as far as things that can be funded.
Basically those are the public buildings, such as the courthouse, civic center, coliseums,
etc. They are the public safety buildings, such as a jail, such as fire trucks, such as police
cars, all of those type things, anything that would normally be a capital expenditure.
Now in the past, we have utilized SPLOST monies for studies to determine the feasibility
of such things as a performing arts, because in the event that those projects are
constructed, then those monies would be capitalized. So that is a legitimate expense to be
capitalized because it’s part of the overall plan to design and construct a facility,
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whatever that facility might be. One of the unique things insofar as a consolidated
government, and I think that this was brought home as a result of the trip to Columbus, is
that there is no time limitation on the approval of a SPLOST referendum by a
consolidated government. And so that presents a unique opportunity for Augusta, if we
want to utilize that, to set a dollar amount, rather than a time limit, so that you can set a
dollar amount of funds that are to be collected under that phase of the SPLOST program.
And once you reach that amount, then, I mean, the Revenue Commissioner would notify
you and you would have to have a referendum in advance of that time period in order to
extend this to Phase VI. So you can set a dollar amount, and whether that dollar amount
is achieved in three years, six years, ten years, 12 years, you know, is irrelevant. It’s just
whatever that dollar amount that is approved as a part of the referendum is -- you work
toward that dollar amount rather than working toward a December 31, 2005 date, which
is what we’re currently under. So that opportunity is available there as a consolidated
government. One other thing that I want to call to your attention, because there has been
discussion about issuing general obligation bonds to be paid back by SPLOST funds.
That can be done for everything except road, street and bridge purposes. So any drainage
projects which fall under roads, streets and bridges, you cannot issue general obligation
bonds under SPLOST to fund those. Those have to be paid as you go. So while you can,
the Commission could authorize a referendum that would call for the issuance of general
obligation bonds for, let’s just say $100 million to build various buildings, they could not
authorize $100 million to build roads, expressways, drainage, etc. Those have to be paid
for as you go. And I can’t explain to you why. It makes no sense to me, makes no sense,
really, to those that work with the SPLOST facet, but for whatever reason, the General
Assembly in approving the SPLOST program set up different rules for roads, streets and
bridges than they did for other projects. For instance, the original rule was that you could
only go out four years for roads, streets and bridges, whereas you could go out five years
for everything else. And so I can’t give you a rationale because clearly you can have a
separate question and issue general obligation bonds that are not paid for by SPLOST
money for roads, streets and bridges. But you cannot use SPLOST money to pay bonds
where the bond money is used for roads, streets and bridges. One other question that has
been asked is there any time period within which you can call a referendum to approve it,
and in essence we can call the referendum early and have time to vote on it, so that it
would not become effective until January 1, 2006. That referendum could be conducted
at any of the designated dates and I’ll talk to you about that in just a minute. And if it
were to fail, then you have to wait a year. But let’s assume that if you had the
referendum -- pick a date -- November of 2003, you have the next referendum and it
failed, you could have the next referendum in November of 2004, but you could not have
it in June of 2004. And so there is some advantage of having an early referendum if there
is any fear that it might not pass. Because if you waited until March of 2005, let’s say,
then you would have an interruption in the SPLOST money because you would stop
collections December 1, 2005, and even if it were approved, or if it failed in March, you
would not be able to have an election again until March of 2006, and then there would be
the interruption, and you’d have about six months that there would be no collections.
Insofar as the date of the referendum, those dates are set by statute insofar as when you
can hold them, and as far as odd numbered years, 2003 is pretty straightforward, it’s the
third Tuesday in March, third Tuesday in June, third Tuesday in September, or the
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Tuesday after the first Monday in November. You get into the even numbered years and
it gets a little more complicated it’s the third Tuesday in March, except if there’s a
Presidential primary. And if there’s a Presidential primary, then it’s conducted at the
same time as the Presidential primary. Then it’s, rather than it being the third Tuesday in
June, it’s the third Tuesday in July, except if a national convention is taking place during
that week, in which event it’s the second week in July. And then the rest of it’s the same,
it’s the third Tuesday in September or the Tuesday after the first Monday in November.
So those are the dates by which a special referendum could be held or special election
could be held. The Commission would have to adopt a resolution 29 days in advance of
those dates and direct it to the Elections Superintendent to call for the special election.
So insofar as Commission action is concerned, you need to back up 30 days from each
one of those election dates to determine when the projects have to be finally approved by
the Commission and the call for the special election. And I know that’s more directed to
the Commissioners than it is to perhaps this committee, but not knowing the full scope of
what all questions might come up today, I thought that I would address that as well. The
old requirement that the county and the city had where certainly projects could only be
funded if there were, if there was a contract between the city and the county, obviously
with consolidation is no longer an issue, so a lot of the projects that formerly could only
funded by SPLOST, if there was a contract between a city and a county that’s no longer
in place, so generally there is pretty good latitude insofar as use of the SPLOST money so
long as it is for a capital project. And that’s the key issue. And also, just as a matter of
construction, the Courts do strictly construe the purposes for which SPLOST money can
be utilized, so that if the referendum question says for a civic center and then you want to
change that to a basketball complex or something, I mean you can’t do that, even though
they’re both public buildings. So the Courts do strictly construe what the statute
authorizes and what is in the referendum
Mr. Speaker: [inaudible]
Mr. Wall: We have approved the use of those monies in the past under a contract,
pointing out the public benefit of having the theater, because if the city did not, if the
Imperial Theater was not funded by some private source, the arguably the public would
be without that benefit, and so it has been my opinion that you can fund those under a
contract, and the Commission must approve those contracts as far as how those monies
are to be spent, and the contract has to recite the public purpose that is being served by
those agencies. Now just any non-profit organization would not work, but I mean a lot of
the functions that are provided by a museum or the Imperial Theater or something of that
nature, if some non-profit did not fund those, then arguably the city would be called upon
to do it. So I think it’s a legitimate expenditure.
Mr. Speaker: [inaudible] civic center [inaudible]
Mr. Wall: I’m trying to understand it. Let me get the question and then I’ll repeat
it.
Mr. Speaker: [inaudible]
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Mr. Wall: The question is whether or not you could have basically two questions
on the ballot, one being to approve a SPLOST in the amount of -- a certain dollar amount,
then as a second question, say approve $50 million for a specific project. And I have, I
think you can do that. What you would want is a provision in the first question, however,
that would, that would authorize the use of the SPLOST money to pay for that project.
And then if the second question did not pass, then the monies would fall and be spent for
a different project. So I think you could structure the referendum questions to do that.
Mr. Speaker: [inaudible]
Mr. Wall: You would have to have a provision in the main funding saying that in
the event that the $50 million project is funded, then the monies could be used to pay for
that project. And if it did not pass, then you would, the monies would -- hopefully you
would have a savings provision in the initial resolution where it would roll over to
another project.
Mr. Speaker: [inaudible]
Mr. Wall: I don’t know about disappear altogether because you set a dollar cap in
the beginning.
Mr. Speaker: [inaudible]
Mr. Wall: You might be able to do it that way. Probably could.
Mr. Speaker: [inaudible] amount of [inaudible] somewhere else [inaudible]
Mr. Wall: I would think that you could do that, yes. And that may have been the
way Columbus worked theirs. I’m not sure. Any other questions? I don’t know whether
I covered everything y’all wanted to have addressed or not. Okay. Well, I’ll be here if
anybody has any other questions.
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: The other item on the agenda is the discuss the goals and
objections of the Citizens SPLOST V Committee. That’s you, Ed?
Mr. Tarver: [inaudible] information [inaudible].
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Come up to the mike here.
Mr. Tarver: There is still some confusion by the members of the committee
regarding exactly what form, what you want from us in terms of information and what
form you want that recommendation to take. At one point, it was our understanding that
you wanted two recommendations: one for a five year SPLOST, and the second for a ten
year SPLOST. We wanted some guidance in terms of what structure and how you
wanted it and how you wanted that recommendation to be [inaudible].
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Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Any of the Commissioners have any concerns about how
they want to ask the questions or structure the questions for the committee? Yes, sir?
Mr. Mays: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, I had this item placed on the agenda for the
regular Commission for the sole purpose of us possibly having a meeting like we’re
having now. Before saying anything else, and it won’t take me 43 minutes and 19
seconds to do it, let me say we’re very grateful to this committee for the time that you’re
taking. It’s a Herculean task that you’re doing. You’re looking at money that equals to
some whole cities’ and communities’ budgets, in terms of what you’re working with with
SPLOST. But yet in terms of having to make a decision of some things over a time
frame that may possibly be very quick, depending upon which route the Commission
takes in terms of dates of doing some things. What I gathered from the minutes of your
meetings, as well as of talking with some of you, not in any formal basis per se, was that
with what you’re doing and taking the time to do it, there needs to be some clearer sense
of direction as the co-chairman has just stated, in terms of what we expect you to do.
Obviously there are varied feelings about this, not at the Commission in conflict per se,
but the simple fact that the Commission has not made some firm decisions of its own.
And I think that puts you somewhat in a quandary as a group of what you need to do.
Because if we’re going to sit around and reinvent that whole process [inaudible] then that
goes in my opinion to a waste of time [inaudible] in terms of what you’re doing. Some
things need to be clear. My main point in wanting to see this [inaudible] and other
Commissioners can express their views, also, was that the first thing, that information
needs to be shared. Clearly and totally. You need to know [inaudible] just want things
are on the Commission’s plate that we have to deal with that are very clear. Example,
one point, and I only make one point. If we have certain needs, for instance, that are left
open from the bond proposal that was not passed, and it equates out to certain numbers of
millions of dollars, if you [inaudible] Public Works budget that calls for a certain amount
of dollars to be spent, and that is presented to you, and then you may get a scaled down
version of even that Public Works budget, [inaudible] two presentation, none of it may
equal even to that [inaudible] on the table to start with. And those that were on the table
from the very beginning did not equate to what would actually measure out to the needs
just in that one area alone. They have no geographical boundaries, they run in every
creek basin of this county, from Crane and Raes Creek to Rocky Creek to Phinizy Swamp
and out at Butler Creek. [inaudible] so those are the types of things just in one area that
you need to know about. [inaudible] because we brought some things to the table
[inaudible] those presentations that we heard, but they’re just that, they’re presentations.
They are not things that the Commission has locked itself into. So I think every part of
this process needs to be heard. I was not able to make the trip with you all to Columbus.
I have talked to other elected officials in Columbus, have friends there. I pretty much
knew what answers you were going to get when you go there. One thing that I think and I
don’t want to cross [inaudible], but this is just one Commissioner speaking [inaudible]
and one thing that the group learned was that it is a very slow and meticulous process that
needs to take place when you’re talking about spending this amount of money. To be
sure, and it’s not a [inaudible] rush to judgment to [inaudible] by Thursday doesn’t mean
it’s going to happen. It may be that you may be here the next few weeks before you deal
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with a [inaudible] so there’s a [inaudible] on a certain day. Even today [inaudible] we’re
not [inaudible]. So I think to a certain extent information, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, is what
this [inaudible], it needs to be clear, they need to have the needs of this city presented to
them that can possibly be covered by SPLOST so that if there are areas in that that
[inaudible] the amount of expected monies, then they also need to know what we plan to
do about those differences at the Commission. Whether we plan to borrow money,
whether we plan to deal with some type of [inaudible] or deal with a bond to pay
[inaudible]. Those are things I think need to become clear so that they will know that
everything is not just written on one sheet of paper. And if we can move with this, we go
[inaudible] public hearing and [inaudible] put something on a ballot by this fall and hope
that a small number of people turn out and it’s passed and then we’re committed with our
funding and I say that because I think [inaudible] magnitude that obligates this city for
five or ten years [inaudible], we should be so enthusiastic about it that we would want a
overwhelming number of people to turn out and vote for it [inaudible]. It shouldn’t be
done to a point that we hold it and hopefully some people will be on vacation or
[inaudible] small number of people will make a decision. If that’s the case then we
[inaudible] projects [inaudible]. So that’s where this Commissioner stands on it and I
applaud the work you’re doing but I think everybody in terms of [inaudible] operations
[inaudible] not be limited, should be able to deal with [inaudible] and I think you should
[inaudible] everything in there with numbers and honestly make some decisions and let
you be able to do it so that you don’t get back later and say, well, we didn’t know that
you had $150 million worth of financing [inaudible]. The best example, Mr. Mayor Pro
Tem, and I’ll sit down, one of the areas that voted against the bond referendum in very
high numbers, it just so happened that the [inaudible] just after it happened. [inaudible]
and they said y’all should do something about this. We said it was overwhelmingly
turned down in the main area where the water was [inaudible] put [inaudible] at the same
time and I heard [inaudible] folk said to me they [inaudible] there was political
[inaudible] on the Commission’s part that [inaudible] two things on the ballot where
people took a choice and they looked at two taxes [inaudible] what will [inaudible], do I
want my house property to go up or do [inaudible] lawn mower, tennis shoes [inaudible]
and you can look at the identical numbers. They’re all the same in terms of [inaudible]
number of what passed and what didn’t pass. So we did not do that properly. And I
think if you leave those things off this time, [inaudible] arenas, outdoors, indoors,
[inaudible] everything just needs to be laid out in a honest format [inaudible] and I don’t
think there ought to be an automatic drop-dead date on when this group ought to finish
[inaudible] but I think the [inaudible] time and ask the questions [inaudible]. We have
not just [inaudible], the world will not end [inaudible]. If you get it done and it’s done
properly by then [inaudible] but if it’s not and [inaudible] get it done, then I think it
would be much better to have that properly in place [inaudible] understand [inaudible]
that’s my [inaudible] they know exactly what [inaudible]. We do not [inaudible]
everything we want to do but we honestly [inaudible] we need to [inaudible] still got folk
[inaudible] building $200,000 and $300,000 homes [inaudible]. That is unacceptable in a
city this size. Those things have to be talked about [inaudible], ladies and gentlemen, so
[inaudible] put on the table, then I think that’s the only way we can honestly [inaudible].
Thank you for your time. [inaudible]
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Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Thank you, Mr. Mays. Mr. Shepard?
Mr. Shepard: Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. I made the trip to Columbus. I did
get back. You let me out in Atlanta and I was grateful for that. But I wanted to share
some of my thoughts. I think that [inaudible] projects [inaudible] dollar goal. I seem to
have my fondness, my most vivid memories of the Commission from the budget fights
I’ve been in, and the problem we had on the last SPLOST, or the current SPLOST
actually, was that we had a five year cash flow and nobody wanted to have their project
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begin or end in the 5 year of the SPLOST because they thought they’d run out of
money. And so hence we did a lot of -- J.B.’s smiling down there and he knows, he did a
lot of working to get various projects into the appropriate years of SPLOST, and I think
that the Columbus method solves that. Because you put out a stream of money and you
will have that stream continue until the [inaudible] the stream completes its delivery of
proceeds, tax proceeds. So I think that is key to my support of that concept, and I want to
thank you all for going over there, those that did, and if you want to see some, some
exciting changes, those of you who have not been to Columbus, I recommend the trip. I
guess the two things that I hope will be accomplished from the SPLOST this time would
be facilities improvement, both at the [inaudible] scale, so to speak, the county-wide scale
such as the Judicial Center, and back in our neighborhoods. And I want to echo what Mr.
Mays said. We need to have some grass roots projects, which include the addressing of
pavement, curb and gutter, and the people on the rest of the Commission think that my
District doesn’t have that, but I know that all of our Districts have that. We need to pay
attention to those grass roots needs that are closest to our people. And I think the other
piece of this is the economic development piece. And you know where I’m going. And I
tell you, I think that we will see a downtown tax base increase if we got rid of this track.
I am the Johnny One Note, I have been working on the railroad, Commissioner Shepard.
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I think if we removed that track from 6 Street and the crosses -- it’s pricey, I guarantee
you it’s pricey, it’s in round number $90 million, and to do that work [inaudible] CSX,
too. The reason I think we should do this is you will see an increase in the tax base. I
was out in Columbia County trying a case the other day and talked to somebody. They
continue to benefit from a growing tax base. And I think whenever we can promote the
tax base within our limits, within our corporate limits, we should not hesitate to do that.
And that is why I’ll keep pushing this project. So I do think you’ve got a task ahead of
you that is exciting and is [inaudible]. But I think if you pay attention to the needs out in
the Districts and the needs for economic development, I think people will embrace it.
And of course, what we all know about this tax, as we were reminded when we were over
in Columbus, this is not a tax that is just paid by folks from Augusta Richmond County.
We’re able to share the funding burden of these facilities with the people in this trade
area. And I just think that that is a superior way to raise money, and I commend those
points to you, and again I want to thank all of you for taking your Wednesday afternoons
to formulate a plan. I think if you formulate what is a citizens’ plans and not necessarily
a Commission plan [inaudible] grass roots level, I think the people will again reward us
with a sales tax to address these needs. I thank you for coming and allowing me address
you this afternoon.
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Wall?
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Mr. Wall: One point that I intended to cover, and I don’t mean this in any
negative way at all. But talking about drainage and roads and street, bridge
improvements. If there is a bond issue as a part of it, so that certain monies are funded by
-- or certain projects are funded by bond money, since you cannot issue bonds for
drainage, roads and bridges, the monies that are collected by SPLOST go first to service
the debt, and so if there is a downturn so that there is less collection, then the one that is
going to take the hit is going to be ones that are not funded by the bond money, which
can’t be the roads and bridges. Now there may be some other projects as well, so I’m not
saying that all the hit would be taken by the roads and bridges. But those you can’t issue
the bonds for, so certainly they would, would be in the list that potentially could suffer
from those collections since they are pay-as-you-go.
Mr. Speaker: I don’t know whose is supposed to answer this question, but I’ve
been trying to figure out what is so sacred about five and ten years. I did hear something
differently down in Columbus, that they had a seven year situation. I’d like to know
something about why is that so sacred, five years and ten years.
Mr. Wall: Well, it is not sacred insofar as consolidated government is concerned.
Prior to -- the other 156 counties in the state of Georgia are limited to a five year. That’s
as far as they can go. Athens Clarke County, Columbus Muskogee County and Augusta
Richmond County have the opportunity of not having a time limit. There is no time limit.
It’s a dollar limit. And whatever is set as the dollar limit is the limit of collections. The
other 156 counties, five years is as far as they can go.
Mr. Powell: Yes, Mr. Wall, I just -- we’ve got some items that’s been brought up
that’s really -- I mean there’s some major projects that’s been discussed here, too. And
one of the ways that was brought up to possibly fund some of those large scale projects
was through a bond. And repay it with sales tax, is some discussion that we had here that
y’all weren’t privileged to at the time. But my question for you is this: if we go out --
and I know we can’t use bond money for public works projects or whatever, pay it with
sales tax or whatever -- if we go out for these large scale projects and we take and go out
for a bond to expedite these projects and we’re going to pay it back with sales tax, things
kind of go south with the sales tax, the way I’m reading what you’re saying is that the
debt would have to be paid first and the projects that weren’t funded by that bond would
be put on the back burner. Is that --
Mr. Wall: That’s correct.
Mr. Powell: Okay.
Mr. Speaker: Is there a time limit for bonds? I would like to know whether or not
there’s a time limit on the bonds that we want to take. As I understand it, [inaudible]
talking about half of the money we need; right?
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Mr. Wall: Those decisions haven’t been made. I mean the Commission has got
to make that decision. I think there has been --
Mr. Speaker: And then you want to float a bond for other money; am I correct,
co-chairmen?
Mr. Speaker: [inaudible]
Mr. Speaker: If so, what is the length of time that you can float this bond? Is it
going to be five years, ten years, thirty years?
Mr. Kolb: Depending on what projects you want to fund and what your annual
estimate is for the revenue, that’s what you would negotiate for the bond in terms of
length of the bond. But it could be any combination. It could be five years, ten years, 15
years, seven years, whatever. It’s negotiable in whatever --
Mr. Speaker: You’re only asking for ten years as far as the taxation is concerned;
right?
Mr. Kolb: Well, we were. But I think we’re changing that, in what projects you
want to fund. And then once you decide what projects you want to do --
Mr. Speaker: You make your decision based on that.
Mr. Kolb: You make the decision on which one you’re going to bond.
Mr. Speaker: Thank you. You answered my question.
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: [inaudible]
Mr. Speaker: Let me understand this clearly now. Are we being asked to
prioritize the projects?
Mr. Kolb: No. We’re not, you’re not being asked to prioritize the projects.
You’re being asked to pick the projects. What projects do you really want to do, how
much money do you want to spend.
Mr. Speaker: I think what this group has been wrestling with, how can we know
the projects that are we needed if we do not know exactly where the city stand on certain
issues? Because where we are, everybody coming in with this is what we need, this is
what we want. But now just listening to the conversation been taking place here recently,
there are some things still on the table. Does that need come before any other project? I
think that’s where we’re at, aren’t we, committee? Want to know what our needs are,
what we going to sit down and say this is what we need to do.
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Mr. Kolb: That’s what you’re here, I think, to deliberate. You’re to sit down and
figure out. And if you recall our very first meeting, I suggested to the committee that you
need to agree on the criteria that you would use in selecting which projects would go
first. For example, what project is going to have the greatest impact on Augusta. What
projects are -- you’re going to get the biggest bang for the buck. Which projects are
going to leverage the most amount of non-public dollars. If you put $1 million on the
table and leverage $5 million, or you put a dollar on the table and leverage $5 in private
investment, you know, what is going to be an asset that is going to benefit the
community. I mean those are the kinds of questions I think that the committee needs to
answer before you sit down and make decisions on priorities and projects. That’s my
opinion.
Mr. Speaker: One other thing that’s really flying over my head, if there is some
other issues out there, and say we do deal with the stuff that’s before us, [inaudible] other
issue that’s already out there cancel out the things that we are trying to do, because my
understanding, if there’s a need and the money is out there and we run short, the project
that we had intended to push out would not come about cause we would have to pay for
what’s already out there. And if we going to go out and sell this to the community, the
community need to know what we’re saying is honest, direct, what we’re trying to get
accomplished. Because where we’re asking them to vote on a decision or something that
we think that is needed for our community, and then all of a sudden it gets snatched out, I
would have a problem with that. Now that’s just me, just one. I would have a problem.
Mr. Kolb: Legally you can’t do that. Once you have picked a project and it’s
been voted on, it has -- am I correct? -- it has, the project has to be done or it goes away.
Mr. Wall: It does have to be done because you’re voting on a dollar amount. It
may not be built in year six, it may be built in year seven or eight, but it would -- you’re
voting on a stream of money, and so the project would be, would be built. It may not be
built in the time sequence but [inaudible].
Mr. Speaker: The stream of money we’re voting on should include --
Mr. Kolb: It should include the project.
Mr. Speaker: -- the project that we’re voting on. What about those that are not
being completed?
Mr. Kolb: Those projects that have not been completed have the dollars already
attached to them from previous SPLOSTs, so they will be done at some point.
Mr. Speaker: [inaudible]
Mr. Powell: Yeah, I’m straight with you. But I ain’t straight with [inaudible].
What I’m saying is if we come out with a list of projects, I know those projects are
supposed to be done, but now I can go back through and show you project after project
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after project that the money has been moved from year to year or whatever, but those
projects have been voted on the sales tax, and the project hasn’t been done. So I think it’s
kind of misleading to say yes, that project will be done. I think maybe you should say
yes, pending it isn’t changed.
Mr. Kolb: Okay, Mr. Powell, I really don’t believe you can do that in a SPLOST
that is either current, being 2003, or passed, except that --
Mr. Powell: Well --
Mr. Kolb: If I can finish. Except where the Commission has said okay, we’re
going to trade a project in year 2005 and take a year 2003 project and put it in 2005. It’s
still going to be done in the five years. There are projects in SPLOST in year one, and
I’ll even say four, that have not been done, but the money has been set aside to do them.
Example, dirt roads. There is a long list of dirt roads that are scheduled to be done, but
for whatever reason they have not been done and probably won’t get done within the next
ten years.
Mr. Powell: Right.
Mr. Kolb: And there are projects like that that are out there.
Mr. Powell: Right. Let me give you an example.
Mr. Kolb: Okay.
Mr. Powell: Aquatic Center and Lock & Dam Park. Just one off the top of my
head that has been changed. But what I’m reading from you is that you’re saying that
originally -- now it’s kind of changed a little bit the more you’re talking, but originally
what you were saying is no, that list that we give is going to be done.
Mr. Kolb: That’s correct.
Mr. Powell: If it’s not changed. And I think that needs to be plugged into the --
Mr. Kolb: I don’t think -- I’ll let the Attorney answer that because he’s been --
Mr. Powell: Well, he and I have differed on things before.
(Laughter)
Mr. Powell: But I’m telling you, I can give you a list of projects.
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: I think I heard Mr. Mays say, and I may stand corrected in
doing this, the presentation I heard him say that we need, we the Commission and we the
committee need to get together and sit down and come up with a list of projects that we
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want to present. I think I got that out of that conversation that you were talking about. I
think the Commission and this committee need to get together and sit down and come up
with a list of projects that we want to present to the constituents. You know, not just
have [inaudible] group of projects that we put together. Mr. Cheek?
Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. I wanted to talk with you just for a
moment, and first thank you for your dedication in being here and helping us with this.
But I wanted to pose a couple of questions to you. One, what are other communities
doing to grown their tax base? They’re creating quality of life amenities within their
communities to where when people drive through them and look for a home or a place to
send their kids to school, they see sidewalks and parks, red lights at intersections and bike
trails and different things. Also, you realize that in five years you’ll be dealing with
about $30 million a year on the average, $150 million thereabouts. What better way to
improve our ability to pay for more sidewalks, parks and other things than to grow the
sales tax? So the first thing I would encourage you to do is to look into your project list
in the way that will filter out the things that are designed or built such that they grow the
sales tax, they bring in more dollars to the city from people outside. In reading some of
the proposals from Recreation & Parks, is a very good example, we have the equivalent
of the Masters Tournament and at several other times that same money invested in
Augusta by people outside because we chose to build the Aquatics Center, Diamond
Lakes Regional Park, the Soccer Park and some of the other facilities. If you look across
the river at the green space that attracts people from all over the region in North Augusta.
We have started a green space program in Augusta that is second to none, but we must
develop our green space parkway along our creek beds. Our riverfront is in the same
situation. We do not invest in the canal parks and so forth in such a way that we are able
to finish it and probably won’t if we continue at the same pace in our lifetimes. These are
things that bring in people to Augusta that further enable us to pay for our fire stations,
our libraries, our drainage ditches and our roadways. This is the way we need to orient
our selection process. We’ve got a lot of big projects before us, before you right now,
that serve the needs of a very few people at a very high dollar. Judicial Center and some
of the other things that you’ll be dealing with, serve a very small segment of the society.
We, in order to pay for those projects, have got to bit the bullet and pay for things that are
going to enable us to increase that revenue and that sales tax, because we do have a canal
pumping station that north of it has got undercutting so badly that the roadway, if you
walk on the roadway, you’re over the water of the canal. There’s no money to repair that.
No plans to repair the 145-year-old dam that’s up there. We have got other long-lead
maintenance items in this city that there’s just no money in the budget to repair. You
look at the roadways. We have the opportunity off of Richmond Hill Road and Windsor
Spring Road to create the equivalent of another Target center for south Richmond
County. We will have to have money to set aside to put in that road, like we did Bob
Daniel Parkway to attract that business to that area and spur the economy in that area that
has been stagnant. We have areas where we cannot afford red lights. Not on just
Tobacco Road, but on Skinner Mill Road, all over the city. There’s just no money to do
these kinds of things. Before, and I ask you this, before we go looking at tying up monies
for ten years on projects, [inaudible] projects that may or may not improve the economy,
let’s look at those things that are proven means of bringing in sales tax dollars, those
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being our Rec centers, our parks, our roadways, enhancements to our neighborhoods,
keep our houses filled and grow that tax base by having someone in that home that’s
going to go spend money in those stores, perhaps work or create a business in this city.
These are the ways we strengthen our base to afford later on at some point, maybe now,
maybe later, performing art centers, the new civic centers, the trade center, and so forth.
I just hope that you’ll look at it from a priority perspective and kind of orient it in that
direction. We did some of that this last time. We’ve taken the lion’s share of our money
and put it into fire stations and some in libraries, some in the Judicial Center, some in
Parks & Rec, but we still have needs for libraries. Commissioner Colclough’s District
doesn’t have a library in it. We still need other fire stations built in areas, growing areas
of the county, and central out, further out Wrightsboro Road, perhaps further south, and
south Augusta, additional improvements made to fire stations. We found out that we can,
when we build a new library, buy books with SPLOST money. It’s the same as buying
other amenities, to go in and complete that structure. There are things that we can do. If
we complete Diamond Lakes, is a good example of Phase I think, we can have
commitments to have the Peach Jam come to Augusta, Georgia. We will have a facility
that is second to none in the Southeast that will attract people from all over the Southeast
to stay in Augusta, to spend their money, and enhance the economic well-being of the
entire city. So I just encourage you to look at things from the perspective of one, is it
needed like the jail pods? We’ve got to spend money on that. But two, is this something
that is going to enhance our ability to grow revenue, to support the remainder of the sale
tax projects like the jail that don’t the ability to attract people to stay overnight, but the
ability to attract people to come to our city, that will eat in our public restaurants and buy
clothes from other than the county jail store and so forth. Look at it from that
perspective. We have so much, so many projects that have so much potential. We tend
to half do and plan to finish later and so forth. We need to look at seeing some of these
things through. Make Augusta just like North Augusta is, a city that people want to come
to and visit and live. Add the amenities, those quality of life things that our citizens
deserve. So far they’ve taken a back seat to sidewalks and drainage, roadways and parks,
for bigger projects that never tend to pay back what is promised. Let’s give our citizens
back the money that they put into the sales tax and attract more people, help us pay for
those nice things that we promised our citizens, that people across the river and in
Columbia County and in Aiken are getting because that’s where their priorities lay. They
are putting into the quality of life, they’re attracting the retirees, and people to stay there.
They’re not fleeing those areas for nicer areas. But that’s one thing I wanted to ask you
to kind of look into as you go through this process. You kind of know where my heart
lies on some of these things, so thank you again you for your time.
Mr. Tarver: [inaudible] first meeting we had [inaudible] and I think we want to
make sure that we have and [inaudible] to [inaudible] projects we’ve already been
presented [inaudible] or the other Commissioners may have concerns about.
Mr. Cheek: This is why we’re here today. We’re going to hopefully come up
with a wish list and get it with this committee and allow us to come to some consensus on
priorities. This is, we have our views on things, but [inaudible] you can help us better
connect with the people in this community as to those priorities. So yes, I have a list, and
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you’ve heard part of it today. I just did not want to stay up here and spend a lot more
time talking about the amphitheater that we have proposed ad Diamond Lakes now. We
could have cultural arts in south Augusta for about [inaudible] or Butler Creek for about
$7 million to keep us from having a repeat of Raes Creek, which -- Ed, I could go on and
on on a wish list. And it just doesn’t serve my District. These are things that I see in the
city, like fixing the dad gum levee up here where it doesn’t, where the river doesn’t take a
left turn before it gets to the pumping station and we lose 60% of our water. I mean it
goes on and on. And I would like to provide you all with a list. I think the Commission
needs to get together and put a wish list together to provide you guys. And that way,
when it comes time to vote on it on the floor, we won’t be fighting over it as much as we
did last time.
Mr. Hankerson: Thank you. I voice my sentiments also, thanking this committee,
a great committee of diversity here, to listen to our needs and try to come up with some
kind of solution that everyone would be pleased with. One thing is that I do want to see
the city move forward in a positive way that all citizens of Augusta will be pleased. I
took the trip to Columbus, and one thing that I was impressed with, first of all, that they
took the projects to the people. Well, they went to the people and got a wish list. We
talked about that. I think right now we are too late for that part. But I would encourage
[inaudible] this committee, along with the Commissioners, to tour the city of Augusta,
and that’s every area. Some of us may not know where some areas and the situations that
some people are living in. And I think that’s very important so you can understand why
some may say I want drainage, I need this in my area or we need this in the city of
Augusta. We need to look at the whole city of Augusta as a whole, and then go to the
communities and sort of listen to the people. We need to listen to them. We have a list
now. We have projects that have already been publicized by the media, so forth, of
everything that we are supposed to be doing. Individuals ask me each and every day are
we going to get the arena, are we going to get the performing arts theater, what are we
going to do, what are we going to do, are we going to get something here for
entertainment? I think at this point we have people excited about some things. They
want to see some things happen. I planned on making a wish list that the things that
identify in my particular area and other areas that citizens have called me about and
listened to the other Commissioners, knowing the serious needs for the city of Augusta.
Drainage is a real problem and we need to make sure we address that. I know that before
we start talking about the performing arts, the Judicial Center, the exhibit hall, we were
working hard, diligently on the Judicial Center, the government complex for non-judicial
staff. To me, I know that’s right now a major project. That’s a priority. We also, we
were talking about a library, so that’s a priority, for us to have the Judicial Center and a
place for non-judicial staff, and the city has great need of a library. So those things is the
top of my list. Now also I learned in Columbus that they had a different way of handling
funds. I was impressed by that. I visited the performing arts theater. I was impressed by
that but I did understand that it was a state grant that paid for it. Here I hear that we have
partnerships with people from the community that’s going to fund a large portion of that,
so that is good for partnership with the community that is concerned about it. But also,
we need to make sure that our needs are met, and that’s what Mr. Cheek already said,
that’s what was asked. So we will, you will receive our wish list, our need list, my need
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list, things that we need in our community. Also, we looked at their mall there, and I
don’t want to talk too much about the mall because it’s kind of been a little [inaudible],
Jimmy, about that part, and I don’t want to get any owners excited about what we are
going to do. We need to -- I keep telling people that the mall is not ours, it’s not ours.
But one thing that I would like to see in our planning, our thinking, let us think about
extending the boundaries of downtown. This is a consolidated government and I want to
see something in south Augusta. I want to see something in south Augusta. We need to
broaden our boundaries. There are a lot of projects going on, and I want to make sure,
now, that you hear me loud and clear. It’s a lot of projects, but everything is focused in
one area. The Board of Education -- what area? The Judicial Center -- I know that’s
what area? The government complex -- what area? But I’m a little bit bigger than that. I
see -- I live on one of the main arteries, right off one of the main arteries that comes into
the City of Augusta. Some of the blooming areas -- Gordon Highway and Deans Bridge
Road. Those areas there. There is some land out there. And I want to see more than just
a utility [inaudible] yard. I want us to be included, include South Augusta. I do want to
see the City of Augusta grow. I do want to see some things. I know that we have a large
priority list. I’m living in the last days of SPLOST IV -- isn’t this SPLOST IV? I did not
have any choice in that because my predecessor had choices of designating where the
funds go. He did a good job at that. Some of the things that I saw that I needed, I did
have cooperation with the Commissioners, that we can move a little money from another
project to make sure that we had a safety issue, sidewalks and things like that, that if it
was not enough funding, that we could identify for this project, that other
Commissioners, another Commissioner would work with me and shift some monies
around in this particular SPLOST. But when the next SPLOST, whether it be a 10-year
or whether it be according to the amount of funds, money, whatever it be, I want to make
sure that we address the serious needs of the City and also still realize that there are
people, there are children, there are grandchildren, there are people in this community
wants to see something. They -- a lot of times, I keep saying, we’re doing something in
Augusta. We’re doing some infrastructure. We’re doing that, but some people don’t see
infrastructure as growth. They see luxury things as growth, so we going to have to make
sure that all taxpayers are satisfied, that we do something that this City would be a
growing city or become -- or look like the second largest city in Augusta. And I hope I’ll
be able to see some of those things done before I get too old to enjoy them. Because I
may be, you know, trying to find a senior citizens’ council that’s closed up. But I want to
make sure that I get a chance to enjoy some of these things. Yes, I would love to see an
arena. I would love to see a performing arts -- I was just crazy about the performing arts
in Columbus. I think a lot of people has spoke about those projects, a lot of things. The
exhibit hall. Those sort of things that some people have interested some people. I think
that we can get a lot of things accomplished. But one thing that Augusta needs to start
doing, as I see it, and as I hear other people. First I said we need a tour of the City, know
what’s in our own City. We need to give our constituents, our taxpayers, a chance to
have some input in the projects. Now, a lot of the projects came to me that I wasn’t
aware until I saw everything is already designed. And I mean, I’m not pushing that to the
backburner because I wasn’t included. Maybe enough people were included. But one
thing that I think we would be able in the future to get more things passed, more things
approved, if we have more diversity in the organizations that are planning these things. If
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you’re already have -- if you already have a diversity of this City in the organizations,
then bring it forth, it will be more accepted in the community. Why? Because you have
community people there already saying that this is not a Bobby Hankerson project. Or
this is not somebody else’s project. This is our project. And I think that when we see
that, we can get a lot of other things passed. Again, I thank you, and you will be getting a
list from me of a lot of things. There are a lot of drainage problems in District 5, South
Augusta, and a lot of things that Jimmy Smith and I like to see done around the South
Augusta area.
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Bridges?
Mr. Bridges: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, and once again, thank y’all for
inviting us out to talk to you. In regards to any particular list of projects, I think it’s real
important that what you consider as infrastructure, the infrastructure needs of the
community first, because without that, you’re not going to have any kind of economic
development that brings in the sales tax dollars to fund these things. The drainage issues,
the street widening issues. The four-laning of streets that need to be done, the various
issues in that regard, I think, should be a priority over anything. I think the cultural needs
are also very important, particularly for the, I guess, the income level of people that you
going to want to attract to the City. In doing some reading and studying on the sports
complex, I ran across quite a few articles, and what was really interesting to me was, if
you want to attract people that are techies, that are, I guess, more progressive, you’d say,
in their manner of living and their habits and whatever, you build things like bike paths,
cultural centers, that type of thing. If you want to attract, or if your population has the
needs for, maybe more of a working-class environment, then you have the football
complexes, basketball complexes, that type of thing. So, you know, I think we’ve got a
mixture of both, and I think we’re working toward that and I think it’s important to
continue that. I think the bike path projects and those types of things -- the Canal, the
work on the Canal is something we need to continue with. But, really, I think the
summary of what I said thus far is the infrastructure needs are vitally important because
without that, you can’t build anything else. One particular project that I have that I hope
we’ll consider is a sewage need in the south end of the County. Right now, with the --
through Utilities, we’ve extended sewage as for toward the Hepzibah-McBean, the
Hepzibah area, particularly, as we can. We’re at the peak of the lay of the land at the
intersection of Highway 25 and 88. We have a developer just about a half a mile down
that road, wants to develop a huge land area. It doesn’t have sewage. What does that
mean? It means he’s going to have to put one house on an acre so he can have septic
tanks. Well, if he had sewage, he wouldn’t have to do that, and we wouldn’t have the
residential sprawl that you see in some of that area. So what I hope y’all will consider is
a sewage project that brings the sewage line from 56 up to Spirit Creek on to Highway
25, and I think that would be beneficial for growth in that area, not only industrial, but
residential as well. But the second thing I’d like to speak to -- I’m glad some of y’all got
to go to Columbus and look at how they do things and their projects and that type of
thing. I did not go to that. I have been to Columbus and I have seen some of the things
on the river there, and I think it’s very good, very beneficial. And as was mentioned
originally, y’all were to bring back like a five and ten-year plan. I’m still looking for
16
that. I’m one Commissioner, but I’m still looking for that. And I think that the funding
process that Columbus does -- I probably wouldn’t have as much heartache with that if I
knew that we were in steady economic times, and that there would be an ending to that,
that it wouldn’t drag on for years and years. I just encourage you to be very cautious
about that, not knowing the economic future. After November 2005, when I see what
BRAC does, I might be more amenable to that method of funding. But until then, I think
there has to be a time limit on when these funds come in. And the reason being is for the
benefit of the person paying the tax. Yes, about 40% of the sales tax will come from
outside our county, but we’ll be paying for 60% of it in a three to five-year period of time
that you’re collecting that money. The priority of projects can very easily change and do
change. So with -- if you have no time limit on the project, you’re just looking at the
money, and the money’s going to come in -- you’ve set a priority for the project at year
one, it’s still going on at year 10, and yet in the meantime, you’ve got other things that
are really a priority than what’s being funded. So be very cautious about adopting any
kind of funding source that does not set some time limit on it. I have seen, too, in the
two-tier projects that we do, one tier being the priorities that we do, and then we say, if
we collect more money, we’ll do -- if things are really good, we get into the two-tier,
we’ll do it. I can’t think of any projects specifically right now. I have noted in the past
that some of those two-tier projects may continue on in each of the Sales Tax. In other
words, in Sales Tax III and Sales Tax IV because in that five-year period of time, they
never made it on the priority list. There were other projects that came up that were still
priority over the Tier 2 projects. So that’s why I encourage you to look at setting some
kind time limit on these things because priorities change, and you don’t want to be stuck
with a priority, with a project that may no longer be your top priority. So those are my
thought on it.
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Thank you. Commissioner Williams?
Mr. Williams: Thank you. I, too, want to first of all thank the Committee for
their time and the effort they put in. I need to say first of all, though, I think what
happened is that we’ve been given a list of things from the beginning, and in my mind,
the Commission has not put a list out there, and then the group, the Citizens’ Advisory
Committee, have not put a group together so we could compare apples to apples. So we
have been a bit confused. But there are projects, I still think, we got to do first thing first.
You can build all the fine facilities you want to build, but you got infrastructure
problems. You got road problems. You build these structures and then you can’t get in,
and the water comes, and you can’t get across the street. We’ve got to look at those
things that’s got to be done. We got people that been in this County for 50 and 60 years
who don’t have the services they’ve been paying for the whole time they’ve been here.
And I’m for the growth, I’m for the new adventures part and the changes that need to be
made. But more than that, I think the people that’s been suffering for a long time, the
east side, and not just the east side, but Gordon Highway. And when it rains, Tubman
Home Road and Gordon Highway, where we allowed them to build the Bi-Lo, you can’t
even get in there if it rains over an hour and a half. You can’t even get into the whole
block. The traffic, it’s just -- the officers have to turn the traffic around. So we got some
serious issues. We need to just look at, we need to sit down and talk among ourselves.
17
Even if you came up with a perfect list yourself, that list has got to be voted on by the
Commissioners, so the Commissioners and this Committee need to get together. We
need to get that list. Then we’ll take that to the community and say, hey, look, this is
what we’re proposing. This is what has been done. The stuff that’s been proposed
already has not come through the Commission. It’s been a wonderful, exciting deal. It
sounds good. But, to me, it should have came through the Commission first because
we’re going to make those decisions. The next thing I want to address is the 10 years.
I’m not in support of 10 years. In Atlanta, we talked to the instructor from Athens Clarke
County, who said it would be very unwise to lock the sales tax money in for 10 years.
And I certainly agree with that. Because we don’t what tomorrow, you don’t know
what’s going to come up, and people wouldn’t mind paying, I don’t believe, people
wouldn’t mind paying taxes for the services, that is, that they see. If that’s a good
program, if [inaudible], we have no problem going back. The people’s been forthright in
coming and voting for it. But if you lock it in for 10 years, and whatever that’s locked in
for, that’s what it’s going to be for. So, gentlemen, and ladies as well, I don’t have
anything else. I just want you to know that we need to sit down and talk among
ourselves. We need to get a list so we can say, hey, you know, we either support or don’t
support. Then we need to take it to the community. We need to let them know what
those things are going to be and when those things we’ll be done. Mr. Powell brought up
a good point about projects. There have been plenty of projects that have been promised,
and they still being promised, but they have not come to fruition yet. And a promise is
just a word. I mean, people who have been told year after year after year, this is what
we’re going to do. And it has not been done. They are tired of that now. It’s a different
day. We need to respect those people. We need to know that they are, that this
government, they are the people that support this government. And we need to do what is
right by them, and that is go back to first thing’s first. Commissioner Bridges brought
some good points about infrastructure. If we don’t do those things, South Augusta, and I
heard Commissioner Hankerson talk about South Augusta. People ask me all the time
why aren’t there any businesses, why aren’t there any restaurants in South Augusta. Why
are y’all won’t do something for South Augusta? Nobody thinks about it. You can’t put
an Applebee’s on a septic tank. And until we get those infrastructures set up and move
some stuff that way, the growth is not going to go that way. So I don’t have anything
else to say. I say again, I’m not in support of 10 years. I would not support that. Not
today. Not any other time. I believe that we ought to have a situation where we can go
back to the people. They see what we’ve been doing. They know we was good for our
words. And we tell them 10 years, we lock it in, we done trapped them again. Thank
you very much.
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Commissioner Boyles?
Mr. Boyles: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. I, too, was the third Commissioner
who made the trip over to Columbus, and I enjoyed being amongst you that went. I
thought it was an excellent trip, even though we were worried about the bus getting back.
And I think it was having some transmission problems getting back. I probably am
known as the shortest or the briefest Commissioner on the panel up there because I
worked for a two-star general when I was in the Air Force, and he made the comment one
18
time when I was really talking a lot -- he said, Tommy can frequently be overheard
saying nothing. And so I’ve always tried to follow that, even in my days as Recreation
Director. When I campaigned for the Seventh District seat up there, I thought that I
would represent a district that probably had no problems. We had state highways going
through. We were a part of the water and sewer infrastructure of the old city. And so
most of what went on with county government was on the south side of Gordon
Highway. It was very little that went on in the west side. And, fellows, ladies, was I
wrong. Because every morning, and every night, I wake up with the people calling from
above Lake Olmstead, from over -- who are on some septic tanks up there, and with all
this rain, the septic tanks don’t work. We had one water line on Merry and Ona Drive
from February to three weeks ago broke seven times, and can you imagine getting
children ready to go to school the next morning when your water’s been off all night? Up
around the Augusta National, up in that older, older section of Augusta, the same
problem with septic tanks. They’ve been promised and promised and promised sewer up
there, but they’ve never gotten it. But it’s just a -- the septic tanks don’t work. When
I’ve noticed in the paper, on television yesterday, that we’re eight inches over our normal
amount of rain for this time of year. The folks that live up in Point West, they’ve got
their porches falling into branches of Rae’s Creek right now, and there’s not enough
money in the Phase IV to take care of it. Up above in Montclair, in [inaudible] and up
above that in Ravenwood, the same tributary of Crane Creek has people’s yards falling in
up there. We don’t have the money right now to fix it. So if you want this
Commissioner’s opinion as to what we need to do first, we’ve got to solve those
infrastructure problems. We’ve got to work, got to work toward that end. On top of that,
the Board of Education has done a tremendous job at what they’re doing with their new
schools. We need to support them with the libraries, those kind of things. Be a new
major library downtown, and for our areas on the south side that don’t have them, we’ve
got to put libraries out there. The Friedman branch on North, not North Leg, but Jackson
Road is atrocious. It needs modernization. The branch out next to where I worked for so
long, next to Butler High School, it needs updating. So my only comments, and my
request to you -- if I go back to 1988 when I asked and wondered why, on the first Sales
Tax that was passed, and it was strictly for roads and drainage and [inaudible] you might
remember some of this, but everywhere you looked, here was an asphalt machine putting
two layers, or an inch and a half of asphalt on streets that didn’t need resurfacing. So we
had to do that, I was under the impression, to make a showing that we were spending
money. I think I’m right about that.
Mr. Speaker: That was when Mr. Mays was Chairman of Engineering.
Mr. Boyles: Well, I’ve often wondered. I’m going to close and say this, I don’t
want to break my record. But for years, for years, I worked at the corner of Lumpkin
Road and Highway 25. The Georgia Drivers License Bureau was over next to the
GreenJackets stadium. And when people came to buy their tag right there at our
Recreation offices, and they would be new to Augusta, and they would say, sir, can you
tell us how to get to where I can renew my driver’s license? Well, yes, ma’am, you go
out here to Highway 25, and you go down to Bungalow Road, and you go to Bungalow
Road to Richmond Hill Road, then you take a right, then you take a right on Highway 1.
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Then you take a left on Gordon Highway. And you go to Kissingbower Road. And
when you get to Kissingbower, you stay on it until it becomes Troupe Street, and when
you get to Hill Baptist Church, you take a left on Kings Way, and you go right on
Milledge Road, and you stay there, and finally the street’ll end, and you’ll be at the
driver’s license place. So that was very hard. And it was the same when new people
come into Augusta when they try to come in from Kissingbower Road to Troupe Street to
whatever it turns into when it gets up a little further. And the same with Ruby Drive,
Wheeless Road, Berckmans Road. So I’ve always wondered, when we talk about
economic development, how do you tell a truck driver that’s going to bring something,
and he’s out somewhere along Gordon Highway, out there where we have the automobile
dealers, and he needs to take something over to Sweetheart Cup. Tell him how to get
there.
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Thank you, gentlemen. Gentlemen, I’m not going to bore
you with what I need. I’m just going to give you a list, and we’re going to sit down and
go over the list and see can we come up with the projects that we can deal with. Does
anybody else have any questions for the Committee, or do the Committee have any
questions for the Commission? Yes, Mr. Charles?
Mr. Charles: I’ve got one question, Mayor Pro Tem. During the meetings that
we’ve had here in the past, the questions have come up about the commitment from the
private sector for some monies for some of these projects that’s on this big old menu
here, and maybe I’ve been sitting up here sleeping. I missed it. But I haven’t heard
anyone address that issue. As I’ve traveled around this world, not around these United
States, but around this world, and seen a lot of things happen in my little short life. And
don’t know too much about many of them, but I do know that in many instances, a lot of
cities that we have in this state, particularly here, where we have this type thing going on,
they’ve gotten a big commitment out of private sector to come in and support these
issues, like the center, museums, and other things, and I just haven’t heard anybody
address this issue here. Have we gone out to the private sector, and do we have a
commitment from these people that if we go out on this limb, you know, what are we
looking for? And I think we need to know that. We don’t need to get a lot of foot-
tapping. The City, you Commissioners going out on a limb and then someone says, well,
you know, that’s not really what we meant. And the citizens of this County is going to
have the ultimate decision whenever they vote this in, whether it be five or ten years, to
foot the bill. So I think that’s something we need to, you know, get a commitment out --
and I think this committee needs to know that because if we did, then that’s going to
change the outlook on a lot of these dollar figures that we have on some of this paper.
And last comment. I heard all you Commissioners say the citizens of this county, they
need to know that they’ve got the Commissioners’ support, and we can build everything
we want to build, but the first thing we’re going to have to do is build the infrastructure.
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: I agree with you. And one thing Mr. Mays did say, I think -
- he can correct me if I’m wrong. I think we the Commission need to sit down with you,
the Committee and come up with a list that we all can take out to the community and
present as projects. And you’ve heard everybody say that infrastructure is one of the
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major issues that we would have to deal with in this SPLOST. And I think that one of the
things that if we’re going to come up with a viable, workable list that people can agree
with, as one of the Commissioners said, doesn’t have any kind of fighting once we put
the list together, we have to sit down together and come up with a list. That means the
Committee. That means the private sector. That means the Commission and some of the
community folks. We have to sit down and come up with a joint list I do believe that we
all kind agree on. I think that’s the only way we are going to make this thing work. And
I will present my list to you. Thank you, and I appreciate all the work. Yes, sir?
Mr. Mays: [inaudible] I don’t really plan to bring a list [inaudible] more than
enough to say grace over from the single-District Commissioners, when you bring all
your lists together. [inaudible] my intention of [inaudible] I said on the Commission
floor [inaudible] not to micromanage this group but I think when I talked about getting
together is that the Augusta Commissioners need to get our act together amongst
ourselves to a point that whether we present something that we are doing singularly as
[inaudible] or whether we do it through the administrative channels and allow the
department heads to do it, I think that they need [inaudible] information that we are
solidly backing and saying [inaudible]. I think to, to get with them and we work it out,
those that went to Columbus and those who didn’t go to Columbus, I think this gets back
again to this [inaudible] 2003. What [inaudible] will not work unless it has the support of
the people, even when there is a list. [inaudible] Carrie Mays philosophy, you got to
work with folk, you can’t just hand them something and say this is what’s going to be. I
think when you go out on that trail, you need to be confident [inaudible] and you need to
also be open enough to [inaudible], where you [inaudible] honest for solicitation. Not to
where you’re trying to give somebody something and [inaudible] made a decision, we’re
just bringing it here because the law requires us to do it. [inaudible] so I think that’s the
only thing [inaudible] get together. The Commission needs to [inaudible] defined set of
ideas. Also need to open up the process so that our [inaudible] we’re not experts at
anything, but we put our hand on the Bible and swear to [inaudible] we become no more
expert the day we take office than the day before. It’s the folk who run those departments
that are out there in that field every day and supervise those folk, who know better what
those needs are. And they need to be able to [inaudible] bring it in here. Whether we do
it or not, that’s not [inaudible]. This committee needs to know what those needs are. It’s
$200 million. They need to know. It does not need to be [inaudible], it does not need to
be stifled by this Commission, by anybody. And I think that’s the only way that you folk
can honestly reach some decisions and say this is what the Commission would like for us
to consider. Because what you asked us for, that’s been [inaudible], it’s come in reports,
you’re [inaudible] list of their own [inaudible] but I think you all are going to need to
have some continuity [inaudible] if you think you’ve got something solid to go on and
you get back the Commission and half the Commission maybe supports what [inaudible]
and the other half says well, I’m not going to buy that [inaudible] at least [inaudible],
these are some of our priorities, help us to prioritize. [inaudible] non-profits [inaudible]
so that you have a total list that’s community driven and that you’re able to [inaudible].
And that’s my personal [inaudible] on how [inaudible]. I ain’t got no list and the
[inaudible] any money and we made do with what we had until [inaudible] and I think,
quite frankly, [inaudible] 14 [inaudible] we thank y’all [inaudible].
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Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Osteen?
Mr. Osteen: [inaudible] what we have heard is that the list that we have been
provided [inaudible] really doesn’t have a list and [inaudible] to this committee to work
with them to [inaudible]. Is that fair?
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: That’s fair to say.
Mr. Mays: [inaudible] but again to a point and I use one example [inaudible] we
need to have some [inaudible] agenda [inaudible] one point that came out of Public
Works [inaudible] that I think maybe got in the neighborhood of $100 million [inaudible]
and to a point [inaudible]. [inaudible] Engineering Services [inaudible] Mr. Osteen,
[inaudible] really [inaudible] that’s correct, but I think the Commission needs to go back
and look at what [inaudible] to this group so that we make sure that those numbers are
correct and that those numbers are [inaudible]. If we’ve got $250 million of needs and
you think that we’ve got $100 million, that’s great, because [inaudible] false pretenses
and that does not represent [inaudible] of this community. I think you’re right, Monty, in
terms of [inaudible] but I think it’s incumbent upon the Commission to go back and to
make sure and to [inaudible] and to tell our folk [inaudible] from the Administrator to the
department heads [inaudible] be honest with what you [inaudible], don’t stifle, don’t hold
back any numbers, let it go, so if you all know what the real numbers are, [inaudible], but
when I saw [inaudible], Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, to a point if those numbers [inaudible] the
first thing I said to myself [inaudible]. And the last point I make and [inaudible] but I’m
[inaudible] sitting here next to Ms. Burney now, [inaudible] on anything that you do, and
[inaudible] but to a point that we think about building anything that costs eight figures of
money and [inaudible] libraries [inaudible] start, folk in our town think we are crazy
[inaudible] but you’re starting off with [inaudible] numbers, the library system that
you’re working [inaudible], that is the biggest chore that you have [inaudible]. And I
think those are the type of things that they already received as a committee and
[inaudible] be honest with them [inaudible] and to this point, that has not been done and
it’s not the committee’s job to get us together, it’s our own job to get our own act
together.
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: We will call a meeting. You want to say something? We
don’t want to hold them up.
Mr. Cheek: I’m not going to hold you up. I’m going to take the pressure off of
you, though. Just to let you know, on water and sewer projects the Commission created
an enterprise fund several years ago, and we have bonded, and by the end of 2010 we will
have invested over $250 million in your water and sewer systems. That is not a problem
you need to worry about. If there is a problem in providing infrastructure in those areas,
it’s on our side of the house. It’s funded through the enterprise fund and should not be
funded through SPLOST. And we’ll sort that out amongst ourselves. But that problem is
the -- the projects are on schedule and on budget and that is being handled.
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Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Anybody else have any questions concerning [inaudible]?
Okay.
Ms. Burney: [inaudible] what I heard [inaudible] for us to get together, the
Commission and this committee, to get [inaudible]. Now I know that [inaudible] the
Districts you represent, that you are, you are more familiar than anybody else in the needs
of your individual District. But we know that if you [inaudible] that they have to accept,
or you’re asking them to accept [inaudible] we’re talking about [inaudible]. I’m less
likely to buy in to something that [inaudible] than [inaudible] asked about. Now
[inaudible] everything that everybody wants. We know we’re not going to be able to do
that. But still if the community could have a [inaudible] that we’ve [inaudible]
prioritized [inaudible] based on solid input from the community [inaudible] the
community is more likely to [inaudible]. Early on in the process I was one of the
members who may have [inaudible] that our job was [inaudible] input from the citizens.
And we [inaudible] they said, and I [inaudible] over the head, that they started their
process [inaudible] involving their communities. And I still don’t hear where we are
going to get that involvement. I do not agree on [inaudible] too late. It’s not too late. If
you’re going down a wrong road and you’re trying to get to a destination, common sense
is try to take a right road. I still think there is enough time for us to come up with some
plan, some methodology to hear from the communities. Because [inaudible] the
Commission [inaudible] there needs to be a [inaudible] aspects to this, as I see it, and I
see the third as still missing.
Mr. Speaker: [inaudible] come back [inaudible] Mr. Powell.
Mr. Powell: I think you can hear me anyway. I’ll try to talk as loud as Mr. Mays,
just not as long.
(Laughter)
Mr. Powell: What I’d like to bring out is this. Ms. Burney is right. We need to
go out to the citizens. And in my opinion of it, there’s two ways you can do this. We can
go out to the citizens with nothing, let them have input on projects, but then if you
[inaudible] citizens again once you develop a list and ask them to respond to what you’ve
come up with. So unless you get a starting point or some type of list to take out there,
you’re going to have to go out there a couple of times. It’s just according to how we
want to do it, and I think that you know, we may need to have some discussion about that
in the coming weeks. But I’m totally in agreement that we need to have citizens’ input,
whether we go out with a blank sheet of paper and then go back once we have a list, or do
we go out with a proposed list and let them have some input and kick the projects around,
kick them in or out. I mean that’s something we got to come up with.
Mr. Speaker: That’s fine.
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: [inaudible]
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Mr. Speaker: I was just wondering, is it possible for the Commission to set a time
frame as to when they can get their projects in to this committee? Because if not, this
thing may go on and on and on and on and on. It just seems to me that you had plenty of
time already. You have not gotten the projects in and some of you don’t have projects.
Could you set a time frame for this so that we could get it and go ahead and complete the
job? Is it possible for you to set a time so we would know when to expect your project?
Because now, what we are doing, everything we’re doing may be undone because we
don’t have your projects, and you’re going to have the last say-so as to whether they’re
going to be approved or not. And if we had your projects, we could integrate them in
with what we’re doing.
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: We’ll get it together.
Mr. Speaker: When?
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: I can’t give you a time. I’m not going to be able [inaudible]
give you a time. We will get it together. Anything else?
Mr. Tarver: If there are no other presentations, we have three that are scheduled
to make presentations to the committee today and we’d like to move forward, if you guys
are finished.
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The Clerk: We’ll need to adjourn our called meeting and allow them to --
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: To have an open meeting?
The Clerk: Yes.
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Do we have a motion for adjournment?
Mr. Speaker: So move.
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Second?
Mr. Speaker: Second.
Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: All in favor of the motion, please signify by the sign of
voting. Meeting adjourned.
Lena J. Bonner
Clerk of Commission
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CERTIFICATION:
I, Lena J. Bonner, Clerk of Commission, hereby certify that the above is a true and
correct copy of the minutes of the Called Meeting of the Augusta Richmond County
Commission and the SPLOST V Citizens Committee held on June 11, 2002.
________________________
Clerk of Commission
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