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HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-17-2002 Regular Meeting REGULAR MEETING COMMISSION CHAMBER September 17, 2002 Augusta Richmond County Commission convened at 2:10 p.m., Tuesday, September 17, 2002, the Honorable Bob Young, Mayor, presiding. Present: Hons. Hankerson, Boyles, Mays, Kuhlke, Colclough, Shepard, Cheek and Williams, members of Augusta Richmond County Commission. Absent: Hons. Beard and Bridges, members of Augusta Richmond County Commission. Also present: Jim Wall, Attorney; George Kolb, Administrator; and Nancy Morawski, Deputy Clerk of Commission. The invocation was given by the Rev. H. K. McKnight. The Pledge of Allegiance was recited. PRESENTATION: Honorable Jack Connell, Speaker Pro Tem Georgia House of Representative & Chairman Augusta-Richmond County Legislative Delegation RE: City of Augusta’s State of Georgia Local Assistance Grant Awards $50,000 – Planning funds for railroad track removal in downtown Augusta $15,000 - Funding to expand operation of Augusta Animal Control Mr. Mayor: Under our presentations today, we have with us Rep. Jack Connell, Speaker Pro Tem of the Georgia House, and he has a presentation for us and I believe we have a presentation for you. Mr. Connell: Thank you very, very, Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission, and ladies and gentlemen. I’m very happy to be here and honored to have an opportunity to bring you some cash from Georgia state. I guess you always feel like you have to pay it to Georgia, and now we’re going to give you a little bit back. During the last Session, we had an opportunity to ask the State Revenue Department if they would give us a little extra money that we might present to the Commission for special reasons. And one of those reasons was give a little check in the amount of $15,000 for Dr. Brogden and the Animal Control System. We are so proud of the work that she has accomplished over the last few years. We wanted to bring you a small check. I say small, it’s not small, it’s $15,000. But this check and the other one that I have, I wish we could raise the amount as easy as they raise the size of the check. But this $15,000 [inaudible], we’ll take that to go to Dr. Brogden and Animal Control, because actually we have a regional animal control. I think Richmond County is the only one that provides cash for the operation of the animal control, and thank you very much for taking care of that. 1 (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Connell: I have another check that’s been expanded also, to $50,000. And this was something that I think all of us would like to see happen very much, is to do something about the railroads crossing all the streets in downtown Augusta. I know Steve Shepard would like very much to see that done, and I’m going to present this one to you. This one is expanded also, the amount of money. It’s $50,000, and a large check for you, for the Commission and Steve Shepard and other who have great interest in finding a way to get the railroads out of downtown Augusta. We’ve got some ideas about it. Some of them sound eccentric, but we think it’s very possible at the proper time that the third level of the canal, which parallels the railroad that runs through downtown Augusta, might be cleared out [inaudible] drainage water and find a way to put the railroad down in the trestle so that we could eliminate the crossover of all the streets thth between 15 Street and the railroad facilities at 6 Street. So we are glad to present that $50,000 to you, Mr. Mayor and members of the Commission, and Steve Shepard in particular. Thank y’all very much. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Mayor: Jack, if I may, let me just say that the $15,000 toward the animal shelter is indeed going to help us hopefully solve a problem that’s been a nagging problem in this community for some time, and Thursday afternoon we’re going to have an announcement out there at the shelter I think the community will be very pleased to hear. Likewise, we are making some tremendous progress, and Mr. Shepard may want to elaborate a little bit, with Norfolk Southern on the relocation of their rail, and we are continuing our work with CSX. We are probably closer now to relocating the rail line than I think we’ve been in a long time in this community. Steve, you may want to comment. Mr. Shepard: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And Jack, I think all of us want to thank you for your many years of service to our community, both on the City Council and the Legislature. Want to do that in a few minutes. But just wanted you to know that just because you decided not to offer for re-election to the Legislature, you do not get removed from the Railway, Trains and Traffic Subcommittee, which you have been a charter member. And especially since you bought your seat -- I mean brought some money to us. (Laughter) Mr. Connell: Always a pleasure. Mr. Shepard: But we do appreciate your interest in the project, and to make a long story short, we have been working, as the Mayor said, with both carriers, Norfolk Southern and CSX, and hope to have some announcements in the near future, including a fifth hydra-switch in the not too far distant future. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. 2 Mr. Mayor: Thank you. We have a presentation of recognition for you, Jack, and I’m going to ask the Clerk if she would, to read this. The Clerk: This is a proclamation in recognition of Representative Jack Connell. Whereas, Representative Jack Connell is a native community leader and an outstanding citizen of the city of Augusta, and Whereas, Representative Connell began his political career in 1959 as a member of the Augusta City Council where he served two 3-year terms. In 1969, he was elected to the House of Representatives, where he served as Majority Whip from 1973 through 1976 and was elected as Speaker Pro Tem in 1977; and Whereas, Representative Connell has served consecutively as Speaker Pro Tem for 26 years, making him the longest-serving Speaker Pro Tem in the history of Georgia and the United States; and Whereas, His leadership and experience have brought many improvements and opportunities to the citizens of Augusta Richmond County, one of Representative Connell’s greatest achievements has been the resources he has brought to the Augusta medical community; and Whereas, Representative Connell has been effective in bringing improvement to the city of Augusta’s infrastructure, to include obtaining $50,000,000 for the design and construction of the Riverwatch Parkway; and Whereas, Representative Connell is retiring from public service on December 31, 2002, after a lifetime of distinguished service; NOW THEREFORE, I, Bob Young, Mayor of the City of Augusta, Georgia, do hereby proclaim September 17, 2002, to be Representative Jack Connell day in recognition of Representative Connell’s contributions to the City of Augusta. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of th Augusta, Georgia to be affixed this 17 day of September, 2002. (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Connell: Thank you very, very much. Mr. Mayor: Jack, we’re going to miss you in the Delegation, but certainly you know your phone is going to ring. When we have a problem or an issue, we’re going to call you. And when we need some lobbying in Atlanta, we are going to call you, too. Mr. Connell: [inaudible] (Laughter) Mr. Mayor: Other recognitions, Madame Clerk? The Clerk: Yes, sir. 3 RECOGNITION: Richmond County Board of Education (Requested by Commissioner Tommy Boyles) RE: Recent SAT Scores Mr. Mayor: Mr. Boyles? Mr. Boyles: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I think we have Dr. Larke and the members of the Richmond County Board of Education. I’d just like to ask them if they would join me up here. And Mr. Mayor, you went back up, you probably should have stayed down with us. Ladies and gentlemen, I think when all of us campaigned for public office, we talked about economic and industrial development and finding jobs for our young people to keep them home. I am a product of the Richmond County School System, and when I went out and picked up my newspaper on August 28, it was kind of disheartening if you picked it up this way, where you see where we have dropped below South Carolina to #50. But then when you flipped it over, and you saw that the folks that are standing behind me have increased the scores of our own students 25 points, and Commissioners, in your books you’ll see a graph of how that has consistently gone up over the years, and I attribute most of that or maybe all of that to Dr. Larke’s leadership. But I think if we’re going to all get this community where we want it to be, we’re going to have to have a solid relationship between the Board of Education and the Board of Commissioners and the Legislative Delegation. It will take all three of us to do that. So I’m very happy to ask them to come down today and just simply let you be recognized by the members of this Commission and the folks of this city and thank you for what you’re doing. Mr. Mayor? (A round of applause is given.) Mr. Mayor: There’s not a whole lot I can add. When we meet with business prospects to come to this community, the first thing they look for is an educated work force. And this is further evidence we are growing an educated work force in Augusta. We can’t do our job without you doing yours. You can’t do yours without us doing ours. So it’s great to be able to work with you, and hopefully one day we’ll move our offices just down the street from your offices, and wouldn’t that be good? Thank you again. (A round of applause is given.) The Clerk: DELEGATION: Mr. Robert Cook (Requested by Commissioner Tommy Boyles) RE: Augusta Neighborhood Improvement Corporation (ANIC) Annual Neighborhood Cleanup-October 12, 2002 Mr. Boyles: Madame Clerk, Mr. Mayor, I had requested this, also, because I had gone to ANIC’s breakfast, and somehow I became a volunteer coordinator for October 4 12. And I’d like to, if Mr. Kolb will help me just a moment, I’d like him to distribute those to the members of the Commission for October 12. And also, a request, and I thought Robert would make it but I’ll go ahead and make it, you’ll see in your books last year this Commission waived -- this Commission charged ANIC or charged HND, I’d like to make Housing & Neighborhood Development, a cleanup landfill fee cost, and that in the form of a motion that we do the same thing this year so that we can help with this. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Boyles: And I’d like to ask all of our department heads if you’re not doing anything on October 12, we’ve got something for you to help us join in cleaning this community up. And Mr. Mayor, if you can take my motion, we’ll go from there. Mr. Mayor: We have a motion and a second for the city to provide funding through HND to waive the fees for cleanup [inaudible] landfill. Any discussion on that? All in favor, please vote aye. Motion carries 8-0. Mr. Mayor: That takes care of our delegation. What I would like to do is skip ahead to the Engineering Services items and turn the Chair over, too. Page 8, item number 37 on your agenda, through Engineering Services. The Committee did not meet last week because of lack of quorum. What I’d like to do is turn the Chair over to the Chair of that committee, Mr. Cheek, go through your agenda, what’s appropriate on the consent agenda [inaudible], those items [inaudible] discussion, go ahead. Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I’d like to call a meeting of the Engineering Services Committee to order. Madame Clerk, do we have any additions or deletions to the Engineering Services Committee? The Clerk: No, sir. Not on that portion. Mr. Cheek: Members, if you would take a moment to review items 37 through 51 in the agenda booklet that we have for purposes of forming a consent agenda. And if there are no items for discussion, I’d like to forward this to the Commission with approval from our committee. ENGINEERING SERVICES: 37. Report from the Utilities/Public Works Departments regarding the costs involved with the request from Thomas J. Norris for the water drainage problems and road work at 1704 Orange Avenue. (Deferred from July 8 Engineering Services) 38. Status report regarding the repairs to railroad crossings. (Deferred from August 26 Engineering Services) 5 39. Approve Capital Project Budget (CPB# 324-05201150420) in the amount of $95,050 to be funded from Special Purpose Local Option Sales Tax (SPLOST) Phase IV for Records Retention Roof Replacement. Also authorize Public Works and Engineering to award a contract to the low bidder, Osborn and Son Construction Management, in the amount of $30,960.00 to install a new standing seam metal roof over the existing roof subject to execution of contract and receipt of proper bonds. 40. Motion to authorize condemnation of a portion of Tax Map 123, Parcel 7.01, which is owned by Barton Investment Co., Inc. for an easement in connection with the I-520 and SR 56 Intersection Improvements Project, more particularly described as 5,597 acre, more or less, of permanent utility easement. 41. Approve a proposal from Greenhorne & Omara, Inc. (G&O) in the amount of $77,053.00 to provide professional services for the Augusta Utilities Department to design sanitary sewer and water lines associated with the Georgia Department of Transportation’s (DOT) Davis Road and I-20/I-520 Interchange Improvements Projects. 42. Approve adoption of the updated Industrial Sewer Use Ordinance that has been reviewed and approved by the Environmental Protection Division of the Georgia Department of Natural Resources. 43. Motion to approve a Resolution requesting a road name change of Lakewood Drive and Lakewood Drive Extension to Lakewood Road. 44. Authorize additional engineering services to Zimmerman, Evans & Leopold in the amount of $285,000 for additional agency consultations, preparation of license application, and stakeholder coordination to support the Augusta Canal licensing effort. 45. Approve contract to purchase a one acre tract for the Butler Creek Greenway. 46. Award contract to Empire Tree and Turf in the amount of $18,730.75, subject to execution of signed contractual documents, for the Tree Removal Project (CPB # 324-06-201160011) funded from the One Cent Sales Tax, Phase IV. 47. Approve a budget amendment to increase both 2002 budget and revenue for the Augusta Richmond County Solid Waste Disposal Facility by $1,040,720. 48. Approve Proposed 2003 LARP Program List. 49. Motion to approve a six-month extension of professional services support with BMS Enterprises, Inc. in an amount not to exceed $70,000 to provide program management support to the Solid Waste Division of the Public Works and Engineering Department. Funding for this extension is from lapsed salaries in this program because of management positions being vacant. 50. Motion to authorize condemnation of a portion of Tax Map 110-4, Parcel 183, which is owned by Stanley M. Seethoff, for a right-of-way in connection with the Windsor Spring Road Improvement Project, Section B, more particularly described as 1,421.77 square feet, more or less, of right-of-way and 4,697.46 square feet, more or less, of temporary construction easement. 51. Motion to approve an Option for Easement between Edward J. Williams, Sr., as owner, and Augusta, Georgia for the following property for a purchase price of $634.00: 400 square feet, more or less, of permanent slope easement and 800.78 square feet, more or less, of temporary construction easement. 6 Mr. Colclough: Mr. Chair? Mr. Cheek: Yes, sir? Mr. Colclough: Clarification on item 49. 49. Motion to approve a six-month extension of professional services support with BMS Enterprises, Inc. in an amount not to exceed $70,000 to provide program management support to the Solid Waste Division of the Public Works and Engineering Department. Funding for this extension is from lapsed salaries in this program because of management positions being vacant. Mr. Cheek: 49? That would be -- Ms. Smith? Excuse me, you said 49? Mr. Colclough: Yes. Mr. Cheek: Excuse me. I misread. 49. That’s Ms. Smith. Mr. Colclough: Tell me a little bit about 49. The $70,000. Ms. Smith: Actually, we have had a three month contract in place with BMS [inaudible] providing [inaudible] and I think all of you are aware we have advertised [inaudible] about a year-and-a-half ago and have not yet been successful in getting a qualified applicant in for that position. And what BMS is doing is they are looking at financial planning, they’re looking at strategic planning, and there are some upper level managerial types if things that we were looking at having them come in to do. The reason we’re looking at extending their contract is if you look over at item number 47, we have come, we have -- they have assisted in preparing the 2003 budgets. We have also identified changes in the process that needed to be [inaudible] as the collections contract is associated, and how those funds are collected. We also have some contracts that had to be put into place to address some items that were EPD concerns, and so many of the tasks that we had originally identified for them to do have not been done because they have been assisting us with some unplanned items that have come up, and what we’d like to do is to continue to have BMS to provide the excellent support that they provided to date out at the landfill. Mr. Colclough: So they’re serving [inaudible] is that the bottom line? Ms. Smith: As solid waste manager. Mr. Colclough: [inaudible] Ms. Smith: Yes, sir, in that position. Mr. Boyles: Mr. Chairman? 7 Mr. Cheek: Yes? Okay, I believe Commissioner Shepard had a question, and then Commissioner Boyles. Mr. Shepard: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Item 44 regarding the canal licensing, is that just the activities that we are currently involved in with the canal in terms of we’ve talked about power generation? I assume that’s only with the Enterprise Mill and with the current facilities? 44. Authorize additional engineering services to Zimmerman, Evans & Leopold in the amount of $285,000 for additional agency consultations, preparation of license application, and stakeholder coordination to support the Augusta Canal licensing effort. Mr. Hicks: That’s right. The only power generation that would taken place using water from the canal would be at King and Sibley, and I think Enterprise is going to use it to generate for display purposes there. But the rest of it is just for the mechanical water or water for mechanical hydropower. Mr. Shepard: There really is no alternative to this, is there, Max? Mr. Hicks: No, sir. We have to get the [inaudible] license for the canal, else someone could file an application and try to get it, so we have to do all of these studies, whatever the -- Mr. Shepard: What does that license do? Mr. Hicks: We need to submit by the early part of 2003, and if you’ll notice in the backup, that’s what the aim is, get that [inaudible] license application ready by that time. In the meantime, there are a number of studies that have been finalized. They’ve been put on a website, using ZEL Engineers’ website, so that the agency members can review them on the internet. And that’s going to greatly aid this process, is they can review it there. Mr. Shepard: And we’re not under a deadline, we’re just trying to be pro-active here? Mr. Shepard: Well, we have a deadline. We had our first -- what’s called the interim permission to apply for the license. And that time we spent developing additional data that had been requested. We’ve now filed for the second interim permit, and that time will be up next year. We hope to have the license application ready by that time. Not hope to, we will have the license application ready by that time. So there is a deadline for us to have it completed. Mr. Shepard: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 8 Mr. Cheek: Mr. Hicks, this is a result of the city allowing the license to lapse and we’re in the re-licensing process for the canal? Mr. Hicks: Yes, sir. That effort has been going on for almost 20 years, trying to get a new license for the canal. And we are much closer now than we’ve ever been before. We’re now in a position that the federal agencies are working with us, we’re working with them, we will be able to do what’s needed and keep the canal operating. Mr. Cheek: Thank you, sir. Commissioner Boyles, then Commissioner Williams, then Commissioner Mays. Mr. Boyles: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was wondering on item 37, if Mr. Norris had made a trip down today. 37. Report from the Utilities/Public Works Departments regarding the costs involved with the request from Thomas J. Norris for the water drainage problems and road work at 1704 Orange Avenue. (Deferred from July 8 Engineering Services) Mr. Norris: Yes, sir. Mr. Boyles: Would you come before the microphone, please? Mr. Norris: Let me say good afternoon to everyone. My voice is kind of weak, I have a cold. But my request is very simple. As a taxpayer, I am requesting that the county put in a road at 1704 Orange Avenue. Now the request that I’m making for this particular subdivision, from my understanding and the research, that anyone who bought property in this particular subdivision, which is Bel Air Hills Estates, when the property owner needs a road so that he can build in that area, that the county would provide that road. I have been making this request now for about three years. I really -- I’m at a point now where it’s beginning to cost, if interest rates go up, to build my home. I need a road. I need the road yesterday, to be honest. I’m not trying to bully anyone, but I have been faced with delaying tactics. Go here, go there, talk to this person, talk to that person. At this time, I’d like to appeal to the Commission to put in this road for me. I’m not talking about a long road, I’m talking about 200’ dirt road so that my contractor can get in to build my home. Mr. Cheek: Thank you. Do we have a response from staff? Information on cost and so forth? Ms. Smith: First of all, the information that was provided or that is on record with regard to Bel Air Hills Estates does indeed indicate that the City will go in and build those roads as funds become available. I think as all of you know, Bel Air Hills Estates was indeed listed on the unfounded list for Phase IV SPLOST and those roads, Bel Air Hills Estates as an entity for infrastructure work was not funded in Stage IV SPLOST. However, these roads are identified also in the paving dirt roads program. In addition to 9 the grading and paving that’s required to be done in Bel Air Hills Estates, there is also a significant amount of drainage work that needs to be done. So while some of these roads can indeed be done with the dirt road funds, there are also drainage and storm water related issues that will have to be addressed. The area that Mr. Norris is speaking of near 1704 Orange Avenue is indeed an area that we have gone out, we have taken a look at, and in order for us to do that 200’ section that he’s requesting, there is also some drainage related issues that would need to be discussed and would need to be built at that time. In order to do the entire length of Orange Avenue, we will be looking at approximately $100,000. In order to do the area immediately adjacent to 1704 and the 200’ just above it, we will be looking somewhere in the neighborhood of $40,000 to $50,000. Again, because we have to address the drainage related issues. We are in the process of preparing, and this isn’t something that is going to provide a short-term solution to Mr. Norris, however we are in the process of preparing an agenda item to come back before the Commission to request that the paving dirt roads list be reviewed to allow those roads that we already have right-of-way on to be moved up the list. It turns out that in looking at the entire list, there are approximately six roads other than those roads in Bel Air Hills Estate that we already have right-of-way. What that would do is, for those funds that I think the Mayor had commented about a year ago about the progress on this particular program, this would allow us to go ahead and utilize some of those funds that are existing in that program to pave those streets and Bel Air Hills Estates. Many of you are probably familiar with the fact that the Utilities Department has several water and sewer lines, I believe it is, that they are putting in Bel Air Hills Estate, and would allow this work to be done in a unified manner and pretty well at the same time. We have spoken with the Utilities Department about this and are in the process of trying to coordinate a plan for doing this work. Again, that would mean that some of the funds for the paving dirt roads program would be expended to address putting in the required drainage structures that are needed to accommodate making the changes out here. Mr. Cheek: When can we expect to see that brought forth? Ms. Smith: The initial report as far as what we are proposing to do, we should be able to bring back in 30 days. As far as the scope of work. Mr. Cheek: Additional questions, gentlemen? Mr. Mays: Mr. Chairman. Mr. Cheek: On this item? Mr. Mays: On this item. Mr. Williams: Mr. Chairman, I’ve got some. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mays? 10 Mr. Mays: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I do need to be recognized on 38 as well. But I was going to say something different in reference to that. I appreciate the work that the current Public Works Director and current Director of Utilities are doing. One thing about government, it usually -- it outlives the folk who make certain decisions, and that’s a good thing. Whether it’s five years ago, ten years ago, 15 years ago. But that 30 days in fine on the long range efforts of what needs to be done in Bel Air Hills, but I’ll say this. I’m glad that that area is represented by the current set of Commissioners who have been representing Bel Air Hills. They’ve been saddled with a lot to deal with. And that’s more help than I was getting from some of their predecessors. Now there was a commitment made by the Board of Commissioners, and I believe in folk living up to commitments that are made. While the 30 days to get that back to us to make a decision sounds good, I think we also need to deal with the two-fold effect and in finding out from Mr. Norris in reference to his set of deadlines that are in there, because the original commitment that the County Commission voted on was to -- not in the scope of the whole project [inaudible] Bel Air Hills [inaudible], that was for long-range, and I’m still for that and I was for that before folk who are representing Bel Air Hills wasn’t for that. But there was a commitment made and voted on by the governing body that when construction was to be done in Bel Air Hills, that the County would provide the access, the clearance and the moving away, whether it was debris, so the equipment could get in and that that construction would take place. That commitment needs to be still honored. It hadn’t been undone, it hasn’t been changed. Now I think that’s a good scope of where you all are moving on cause that’s progressive. But that also does not necessarily satisfy nor take care of -- I think in some ways, Mr. Mayor, that actually it blocks up what construction could massively be going on in Bel Air Hills if we were ready to do some work. Bel Air Hills for 35 to 40 years has given up its right-of-way and been willing to do anything that Richmond County would do. It’s been the County basically, for the most part, that has not acted, and has not responded. So this is nothing new. This is no precedent-setter. So I’m satisfied from the long-range part that that’s getting under way. But I think the question that needs to be answered is how soon can we get access for construction to deal with what is there, because that has been the burning question, not about the last 60 to 90 days with this particular one. And while I appreciate that and I know, Ms. Smith, Mr. Hicks, this is something y’all inherited, other Commissioners have inherited, but some of us been fighting this uphill battle with molasses on the side of that mountain for a long time. And I for one have gotten real tired and I think the reason why a lot of that area is still woods is because the basic services -- and I might say that dirt road committee, I’m glad to see us get off that [inaudible] because I thought it was very unfair, and the reason why that has not been changed until y’all got behind it and the Mayor asked the question that he did, is the fact that it was going to be unfair then and unfair now to ask those who, only who could pay for basic services to get moved up, and when we promised over a series now going into -- th soon to ask for a 5 sales tax extension, to ask folk from Bel Air Hills to come back again and vote for something that they were promised really in 1987, that if they voted for it they would do it. And that even pre-dates me. So I want to hear somebody say what gets us off square one to deal with clearing some land, getting some access to the roads, and so that houses can be built like we promised they would be done and then we move on to the long-range plan. Cause this is good, but this does not get us to what we voted on as a 11 Commission close to a decade ago that we would do. Jim, you may want to go into that legally of what binds another Commission, but a voted-on promise, until unvoted on or undone to me is still a promised. Mr. Cheek: Do we have a response from staff concerning that? Is this something we can answer today as far as timetable on this particular issue with Orange Avenue? Mr. Kolb: No, we cannot. Next Monday is your Engineering Services Committee meeting. We will have a report to you by then, if okay. Otherwise, we are flying by the seat of our pants. Mr. Cheek: Is this a return a report on Monday, gentlemen, is this something that we can live with? Mr. Mays: I guess my question is, Mr. Kolb, and I’m in full agreement of what she’s been saddled with, long-range. She inherited this one by the [inaudible], but you also got an area that’s been kicked in the seat of its pants, and I need to get an answer to whether we are coming back Monday for a long-range proposal or are we coming back with two proposals? One that deals with construction that has been decades-long promise and the other that deals with long-range. Now we made that commitment. We’ve gone in before we got so tied down and bogged down, we were going in and we were cutting access so that some of these homes could be built. And dealt with. Mr. Cheek: Let’s just see if we can get an answer to your question. Do we have - - can we provide information on Monday specific to Orange Avenue and a timetable for that area? Mr. Kolb: We can come back to you with two phases. One, we can do the short- term Monday on Orange Avenue and give you a definitive timetable. It’s going to take -- I recognized what Commissioner Mays is saying; however, it is not totally programmed in our plans for right now. It’s going to take us a little longer, if Commission desires us to change direction and submit change orders for this particular project. And that’s going to take us about 30 days. However, we can give you more of a definitive on the short- term with Orange Avenue next Monday, and then we can give you a better idea of what it’s going to involve with respect to the long-term solution. Mr. Mays: Mr. Chairman, and I was hoping we could maybe move some of these to the end of the meeting, cause I know we got folk waiting on zoning and other stuff in there, but it’s out here now. And I appreciate us getting to that, and the Attorney may want to help me out a little bit here. But what’s programmed and what’s on our agenda is also been something we voted on and put on an agenda prior to Randy Oliver, prior to George Kolb, prior to Teresa Smith, prior to consolidation, prior to Max Hicks. And at some point, the credibility of the government is on the line. We are going to start asking folk to vote for bond issues, to vote for tax extension and to do everything else that they get promised, and the only thing I’m essentially saying is we need to find a way that somebody deals with a bush hog or a sling blade, a lawnmower, or whatever it takes, 12 motor grader to cut a road., and to deal with being able to get access to that. Or either we need to bring it back and put it on the agenda, and we need to say we are going to reverse what we promised, we’re going to back away from that, and we aren’t going to do that. When we take official action to say we are not going to do that, then I think it gets on a different agenda. We’ve never undone the agenda. In reference to Mr. Wall, your predecessor, which when we started this, and that was the unofficial agreement because we did not have the money to totally do Bel Air Hills and the Commission at that time ranked it at the bottom of the agenda, and it took those of us who do represent that area, even to get it on the radar screen. And you’ve got Commissioners now that are willing to do it. But the point is, it’s so far down in there that we did -- the compromise was we would make available at the time land was sold, the permits were issued, that we would move and clear that space so the homes could be built. And I think what would clear everybody’s mind, would send a clear message, if we’re not going to do that, put it on the agenda one day soon and just reverse the whole decision and say we’re not going to keep the promise that we made. And it will be real simple. But until we do that, as far as I’m concerned, it’s still and it’s already on the agenda. And [inaudible] agenda, that’s the [inaudible] ten years ago. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Wall? Mr. Wall: Let me follow up with what Commissioner Mays is saying. These streets, and this one in particular, was expressly accepted by the County as a dedicated road by Augusta, by Richmond County at that time. And so we have an obligation to make it a road. And that is what Commissioner Mays is saying. Rather than, since we did not have the money to go in and build every one of the roads, the understanding was that as the homeowner came forward, bought a lot and needed access, that we would at that point clear the road and clear a path to his property. And that has been the policy of the Commission -- Commissioner Mays says a decade, and I won’t argue with his time period. I don’t remember. At least a decade. Mr. Cheek: In checking the records, Commissioner Mays is incredibly accurate with his information. Mr. Kolb: Mr. Chairman, it’s given me a little time to get a little more information. We are planning, in the master plan, in preparing for construction of the water and sewer lines, they will be going through that area to clear out the road, the right- of-way. What we need time for is to program the actual road construction. And so short term, if you allow us until Monday, we can give you more information. There is a plan on the books, so apparently something has been done even prior to us in terms of putting the plan together. It’s just a matter of us bringing it to you, communicating it to you, and also the time schedule. Mr. Cheek: Any additional information requested for item 37? Commissioner Hankerson? 13 Mr. Hankerson: I’m not quite sure where we need to be with it with someone who is attempting to build a home. As I hear, we have some obligations to fulfill. I think that we really need something more concrete to tell this gentleman when they come back Monday, either we give him a date when we’re going to start making him a road in that he could start his construction, and then the other plan we have would be a long range plan. I don’t think we need to hole up this family from building their home. I think we need to -- if it’s order to put in the form of a motion that we come back Monday, that we come back, giving him a date that his road will be installed, and we can do the other long range thing other. I put that in the form of a motion. Mr. Williams: I second that. Mr. Cheek: Commissioner Hankerson is out of order. He’s not a member of the Engineering Services Committee. I’m sorry. Mr. Hankerson: This is the meeting? Mr. Cheek: Yes. Mr. Hankerson: I apologize. One of the Committee members, then, I task them with making my motion. Mr. Colclough: I will take Rev. Hankerson’s motion and put it on the floor. Mr. Cheek: Okay, do we have a second to that motion? Mr. Boyles: I second. Mr. Cheek: We have a motion and a second. Mr. Kolb: Mr. Chairman, I don’t believe a motion is necessary. We have committed that we will come back to you with a report and a schedule for implementation of the project on Monday, and I think we will do so. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Kolb, all of us know the good intentions of staff, and it’s good that there are so many here. There is a great deal of frustration among many of us that these programs are often promised and for one reason or another are delayed. Let us see how the vote goes and then we’ll go to full Commission and allow full Commission to vote on it. But we are all equally frustrated with the promises that are made in the past that see such as lack of follow-through. Commissioner Williams? Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m not on the committee, but my fellow Commissioner has already expressed my concern, as well. We get our backs against the wall, Jim, and then we want to come out. And here’s another thing that we are doing the same way with. I think this gentleman, and not only him, anybody that’s building, been waiting three years, have been more than patient. We need to have not a 14 long term, but a very short term solution to come back on Monday, and that’s what we going to do. I hear the Administrator and I know he’s got good intentions. But like so many time, we say we going do something, and for three years now it’s been put on the back burner. So I think the motion that’s on the floor is in order and I can’t vote cause I’m not on that committee but I do support it. I just think that we need to come up with something and move forward with it. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Kolb, that is the intention of staff to come back with that date and time table. So we have a motion on the floor. Do we have any further discussion? Could we have the motion reread? The Clerk: Yes, sir. Mr. Mays: Thank you, Jim, for bailing me out. I appreciate that. The Clerk: Yes, sir. The motion was to give Mr. Norris a date for when the road to his proposed home will be constructed. Mr. Cheek: Okay. And that is to come back to the next Engineering Services Committee? I think it’s good. I think the public can see the concern that this Commission has for seeing that projects through that are promised. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? All those in favor, normal sign of voting. Motion carries 4-0. Mr. Cheek: Item 38? Madame Clerk? I’ll go ahead since she’s writing a status report. 38. Status report regarding the repair to railroad crossings. (Deferred from August 26 Engineering Services) Mr. Mays: Mr. Chairman? Mr. Cheek: Yes, sir? Mr. Mays: Could I say something? What I was going to do, I didn’t know whether Ms. Smith had a short report or whether she needed to give some detail. And since we didn’t have committee meeting, we’re going to have on Monday, on 38, if we might just defer that over to Monday with it, or do we need to discuss it? Or if it needs to be discussed, what I was going to ask is that we allow the zoning matters and everything to go on and we put this to the end of the consent agenda and the zoning matters so that if it’s got to be discussed today. Because I think it’s going to [inaudible] , okay, then I’ll let you direct to the Chairman, because I did have a comment or two about that, too. Ms. Smith: Actually, the action for this meeting, which was to be the meeting on Monday, was to come back and report to you how we were doing with evaluating the 15 roads. The actual report isn’t due until, I think it was 30 days from the last meeting. And just to let you know, we have gotten some input from the Deputy Administrator. We have our traffic engineering group, our construction inspectors, as well as our site plan inspectors out evaluating. We have got almost 100 crossings that we’re taking a look at. We’ve also gotten a couple of responses from the Mayor about some places that need to be looked at. And so we are compiling a list of those areas that need to be addressed. Mr. Cheek: Okay, Commissioner Williams. Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I had this put on your committee to be discussed for really two crossings. I mean we got a lot of situations in this area that need to be -- some attention need to be focused on. But Milledgeville Road and Savannah Road, if you don’t use Gordon Highway, that’s the main entrance in and out to South Augusta. But those two roads are so dangerous until it’s almost unsafe to drive on. Now if you go by there after the road, there is water standing, the tracks are so bad that regardless of what kind of automobile you may be riding in, you’ve got to come to a complete stop. Milledgeville Road is right in front of #5 fire station. I am looking for a serious accident to happen there. When you go across Broad Street, and a train is a train. I worked 27 years with there. There is no heavier train on one side of town than there is on the other one, but you go across Broad Street and it’s smooth. I mean it ain’t perfect, but it’s a lot better. When you go to Milledgeville Road or Savannah Road, you’ve got to come to a complete stop, unless you knock the tires out from under your car. And we are sitting here and let this happen for a long, long time. So I had this put on for those two roads in particular. Now I know there is some construction to be lined up on Savannah Road, Mr. Mayor, I understand. But I can’t see how it’s not the City’s responsibility, and Jim, you might be able to correct me on this, I think the railroad has been allowed to not maintain. The freight train that come through Augusta, normally comes through Milledgeville Road and across Savannah Road. The piggy-back trains come through there, the same direction. The train can’t run over 15 miles an hour, I don’t believe now, on those tracks because the track is really bad. But those roads that the citizens of Richmond County, any way you go to south Augusta, unless you go Gordon Highway, you got to use those two roads. So that’s the main reason this is on the agenda this morning, for your committee, Mr. Chairman, because when the water sit there, the fire station is there, they get a fire call, somebody is stopped, it’s a dangerous situation. It’s an accident looking for a time. Not a place, cause it’s got a place. It’s looking for a time to happen. And I want to know what we was doing on those two roads especially. Ms. Smith, if you can address those roads? I know they on your list, but can you give me any, any input as to what we doing for those two right now? Ms. Smith: As was indicated in the meeting that we had when this initially came up, both of those roads, information on them have been given to the respective railroad. If I’m not mistaken, there was another road in the vicinity of Old Savannah that was worked on, and recently. And they committed at that time to come back and to address the crossing at -- I believe it was M.L. King that was scheduled to be done, and to come back and do Old Savannah. We do not have a date on that. However, before we followed up with them we did indicate we would send them a consolidated list and that’s 16 the information that I am in the process of putting together, to give to the County Attorney who was tasked with sending the letter to the respective representative of each of the railroad. Mr. Williams: Mr. Chairman? Mr. Cheek: Go ahead. Mr. Williams: Jim, if you could help me out, cause this is really serious. What do we need to do or what’s going to be done to address -- now, we’re not talking about Orange Street now, but this is just as important -- as to getting some figure, of getting some time? I think we have allowed the railroad to take advantage of the citizens of Richmond County and not to stand responsible for what they supposed to be doing. So what are we looking at when you’re talking about time frame and sending something to them? Mr. Wall: Well, as soon as I get the complete list. I mean my intent was to send an immediate letter to them and to follow that up with discussion. As you well know, there are a number of issues that we have with the railroads, and the goal was to have a meeting to work out all of those issues or as many of them as we could, and so I don’t know that I’m answering your question, but I mean as soon as we get the list -- rather than attacking it piecemeal, I was hoping to get the complete list so we could sit down and work through the priorities and get them scheduled and get them moving. Mr. Williams: Jim, I’m in agreement. Mr. Chairman, if I may. I’m in agreement with that, Jim, but this is very serious. This is a dangerous situation there when, not just when it rain, but even more when it rain. But you can’t go across that crossing at MLK or Savannah Road without coming to a complete stop. And you know how the traffic is all around this city, and when you talking about people driving and not paying attention. You’ve got a fire station that’s sitting there that may have a fire call to get out there at any time. It’s something we should have addressed a long time ago, and I’m looking for some immediate relief on those two crossings first. I mean if you got a broke leg, Jim, you going to tend to it first, I think. You’re not going to worry about the one that’s not broke. That list is good, but it ain’t just happened in the last year. This ain’t just happened in the last two years. For the last ten years, if not more, that this crossing has been really bad, and you got a train, and a train is a train whatever side of town it’s on. It ought to be the same way when you go across MLK and Savannah Road as it is going across Broad Street. And that’s what I’d like to see happen, and if we need to talk to those people, those people in charge of the railroad, we need to bring them in and ride out there and take a look at it and let them see what we’re talking about. Mr. Cheek: Commissioner Shepard? Mr. Shepard: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Commissioner Williams, you know you and I serve on the Railroad, Trains and Traffic Committee, along with Mr. Beard and Mr. Mays, and I hope you would -- and this is your law partner talking here -- Representative 17 Mickey Channell, to my recollection, has just succeeded in passing through the Legislature a new Bill, a new law that has taken effect that we can use to bring about the resurfacing of these tracks without the judicial process. It’s sort of an arbitrated process now involving the State D.O.T. But if you would take that on as part of the Railroad, Trains and Traffic Subcommittee, I would be very appreciative because there is this new mechanism. I’m sure Mr. Wall would help you find it, and I now these are two heavily- traveled crossings and we’re certainly interested in that as well. So if you would look at that, and it may be a tool we could -- when we send that list in, we could not just send that list, we’d have some stick behind it to force them to do something, if you would do that. Mr. Williams: I sure will, Mr. Shepard. Mr. Shepard: Thank you. Mr. Cheek: Commissioner Boyles and then Commissioner Mays. Mr. Boyles: Mr. Chairman, I was just going to recommend or make a make a motion that we take item 39 through 51 to Engineering Services Committee and add to the consent agenda. ENGINEERING SERVICES CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS: 39. Approve Capital Project Budget (CPB# 324-05201150420) in the amount of $95,050 to be funded from Special Purpose Local Option Sales Tax (SPLOST) Phase IV for Records Retention Roof Replacement. Also authorize Public Works and Engineering to award a contract to the low bidder, Osborn and Son Construction Management, in the amount of $30,960.00 to install a new standing seam metal roof over the existing roof subject to execution of contract and receipt of proper bonds. 40. Motion to authorize condemnation of a portion of Tax Map 123, Parcel 7.01, which is owned by Barton Investment Co., Inc. for an easement in connection with the I-520 and SR 56 Intersection Improvements Project, more particularly described as 5,597 acre, more or less, of permanent utility easement. 41. Approve a proposal from Greenhorne & Omara, Inc. (G&O) in the amount of $77,053.00 to provide professional services for the Augusta Utilities Department to design sanitary sewer and water lines associated with the Georgia Department of Transportation’s (DOT) Davis Road and I-20/I-520 Interchange Improvements Projects. 42. Approve adoption of the updated Industrial Sewer Use Ordinance that has been reviewed and approved by the Environmental Protection Division of the Georgia Department of Natural Resources. 43. Motion to approve a Resolution requesting a road name change of Lakewood Drive and Lakewood Drive Extension to Lakewood Road. 44. Authorize additional engineering services to Zimmerman, Evans & Leopold in the amount of $285,000 for additional agency consultations, preparation of license application, and stakeholder coordination to support the Augusta Canal licensing effort. 18 45. Approve contract to purchase a one acre tract for the Butler Creek Greenway. 46. Award contract to Empire Tree and Turf in the amount of $18,730.75, subject to execution of signed contractual documents, for the Tree Removal Project (CPB # 324-06-201160011) funded from the One Cent Sales Tax, Phase IV. 47. Approve a budget amendment to increase both 2002 budget and revenue for the Augusta Richmond County Solid Waste Disposal Facility by $1,040,720. 48. Approve Proposed 2003 LARP Program List. 49. Motion to approve a six-month extension of professional services support with BMS Enterprises, Inc. in an amount not to exceed $70,000 to provide program management support to the Solid Waste Division of the Public Works and Engineering Department. Funding for this extension is from lapsed salaries in this program because of management positions being vacant. 50. Motion to authorize condemnation of a portion of Tax Map 110-4, Parcel 183, which is owned by Stanley M. Seethoff, for a right-of-way in connection with the Windsor Spring Road Improvement Project, Section B, more particularly described as 1,421.77 square feet, more or less, of right-of-way and 4,697.46 square feet, more or less, of temporary construction easement. 51. Motion to approve an Option for Easement between Edward J. Williams, Sr., as owner, and Augusta, Georgia for the following property for a purchase price of $634.00: 400 square feet, more or less, of permanent slope easement and 800.78 square feet, more or less, of temporary construction easement. Mr. Cheek: We have a motion. Mr. Colclough: So move. Mr. Cheek: We have a second? Mr. Colclough: Yes. Mr. Cheek: We’re still in the process of discussing item number 38, so we’ll come back to that for further action. We have a motion on the floor for 39 through the remainder, 51. Any further discussion on that for consent agenda? 38 is still on the floor. We’re going to come back to 38 to make sure we’ve tied it up completely. Okay, if there is no further discussion, all those in favor of moving item 39 through item 51 forward with approval as a consent agenda, normal sign of voting. Motion carries 4-0. Mr. Cheek: Get back to item 38 for further discussion. 38. Status report regarding the repairs to railroad crossings. (Deferred from August 26 Engineering Services) 19 Mr. Cheek: ? In the interest of time, What we need on this, is staff prepared does this Committee feel we can refer the status of the full report until next Committee meeting, this coming Monday , which will allow further discussion? Is there a motion we can get to that order? Mr. Colclough: I make a motion that we do. Mr. Mays: Second. Mr. Cheek: Okay, motion and second. Do we have further discussion on item number 38? Commissioner Mays? Mr. Mays: Yes, Mr. Chairman. To follow up on Steve’s information, what I was going to suggest, cause obviously 38 won’t be solve today. Period. But I think what needs to be done on Monday in addition to the reports that are forthcoming, is that we use the power of the new Bill that was passed to do whatever is in the best interest of our citizens here. And I don’t have a problem with sending something to the railroads. Because we have other relationships to deal with them. But you’ve got one here that we are, quite frankly, being ignored in, and if the railroad wants to do the repairs, fine. If we going to do the option of the new law, repairing them and dealing with arbitration, I think what we need to be discussing on Monday is being able to come in on Monday, take the quickest option that we can, and go on ahead and fix them. And deal at least with a top ten priority list. Because I mean we keep riding across Richmond County, it’s a lot of tracks in Richmond County. And I’m not saying I’m not concerned about other areas, but you’ve got some that you can run over, and it’s as though you run across synthetic material that’s out there as though you never missed a beat, and then you got some, you better be headed to the alignment shop. So you’ve got different road situations out there. As Marion said so. And I think you need to come in at least on those eight to ten bad ones that we’ve got, go ahead and deal with using the new law. And if we going to have to repair them, it would be nice if Public Works could come in with a price for repair that we can argue about on dealing with the reimbursement. Because I got four tracks crossing Laney Walker down there, but I got one set of lights. And the rest of it has just totally gone raggedy. In front of New Savannah Road and the rest of them. The only one th that’s decent is the one right before you get to 5 Street. And I got Savannah Road, then Martin Luther King, and then, you know, so they go on and on. So I have no problem, gentlemen, with deferring it, but I think Monday we need to be in a position to say what position we going to take. And we got the new law there in place, if it has been passed, then let’s do what is the best option for our folk that’s expedient, take that route, and put the railroad on notice that we are going to do that. Because I think we can’t, because we have other good situations to deal with with the railroad, this just happens to be a bad one, and we can carry on the other good relationships, moving tracks, diverting this, putting down switches, all that sounds good. But what we got right now, as I said in committee meeting, and excuse the country grammar, we got some raggedy tracks, and District 9 just happens to have just about all of them. So, you know, I want on Monday to be able to do more than just us approving a list. I want us to be in a position to send something to the railroad about what route we plan to take, and so I have no problem with 20 deferring it, Mr. Chairman, but I just think we need to be moving on a course of action with it. Mr. Cheek: I think that’s something that has been communicated loud and clear to staff. Any further discussion? Mr. Kolb: Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, if I may? Mr. Cheek: Yes, sir. Mr. Kolb: We have been in conversation with the railroad, at least CSX, on this very issue within the last 30 days. And what they have requested from us is a list of the railroad intersections that we consider to be in need of maintenance. What I’ve been trying to say is that if the Commission has some individually or collectively, if you have some railroad intersections that we need to take a look at, you need to get them to us as quickly as possible so that we can get these to CSX and see what they’re going to do with it. There is no way, since we’re not responsible, we don’t do railroad crossings, that we can have any kind of estimates for you for Monday. The only thing that we can do is try and get a list together and get them to the railroad to see exactly what they’re going to do with it. Mr. Cheek: And I think it would behoove all of us as Commissioners to develop a list that we have from our Districts of crossings that we know of to make sure that they are included as part of that list. Mr. Kolb: Especially CSX, because that’s the one that we have been working with most recently, and so therefore I think we can get something going with them quickly. Also Norfolk Southern, and we’ll try and communicate that to them, also. Mr. Cheek: We do have some life safety issues that we really need to address when it comes to these crossings. Commissioner Williams? Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I somewhat disagree with our Administrator about we don’t do railroad crossings ourselves. But there are several companies that will come in that we can hire, like we hire a company to do everything else in this government. There are several units that work on just railroads. That’s all they do. They come in and they will fix the crossing and do whatever else. Now this is a very serious situation. This is a long-term problem that’s been here for a long time. Commissioner Mays made a good point. We need to prioritize those crossings that’s detrimental right now. We can sit here and form a list and go from one end of this county to the other one. But those two issues, and the reason I put this on, because of the seriousness of these two locations right now. Now we are not saying we are going these two and stop. What I’m saying is that these two are going to cause a serious accident there. They tearing up the constituents’ cars. We need to go ahead and move. There is a list already been made. That’s Savannah Road and MLK. That’s the first two. That don’t mean that’s the end. But that’s the first two. And if we need to call a private 21 contractor in to do those crossings, we need to do something. The railroad is not going to do no more than they have to do. As long as a train is able to move, they going to move it. And when it falls or when it details, they going fix that one spot, and they going to continue to go on again. This is our responsibility. Those are public streets. And we need to make them as safe as we possibly can for the people of Augusta Richmond County. So there are some avenues we can take as getting something to work on them and getting a price on it. And if you need those names, I can get those names for you. I can get those companies for you. Mr. Kolb: Mr. Chairman? Mr. Cheek: Yes, sir? Mr. Kolb: I’m not suggesting that we circumvent the law, but I am suggesting that we give the railroads an opportunity to address the problem. I don’t think that we have done that before. It is not Augusta’s responsibility to fix the railroad crossings. It’s the railroads’. They are the ones that fix it and pay for it. I am suggesting that we attempt to try and get cooperation from the railroads, especially on the ones that Commissioner Williams is referring to. The law gives us an avenue to force it. I’m not sure that we want to use that at this time. It’s the Commission’s decision. Mr. Cheek: Certainly we should try to work as a partnership with our railroads. That would be out carrot, but certainly we need to keep our stick handy just in case. Any further discussion? Okay, we have items -- for clarity’s sake, we have items 37 and 38 to be forwarded to the next Engineering Services Committee. The remainder has been passed on to the Commission will full approval as a consent agenda. I would like to say for the record, too, to all of you here, I apologize for the length of this Engineering Services Committee. As Chairman I take full accountability for the fact that we were unable to put a quorum together due to business concerns at my full employment that were beyond my control. But nonetheless, I take full accountability for the time you have sat here, and I invite you to come enjoy this with us on Monday at 3 o’clock for our next Engineering Services Committee. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. We will move on now to our consent agenda. Mr. Shepard [inaudible] our consent agenda, which is items 1 through 31, plus those items which were just [inaudible] Engineering Services Committee, and with your consent, if we could add to the consent agenda items number 53, 54, 55 and 56. Mr. Shepard: So moved, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Cheek: I’ll second that, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: We have a motion and a second. Gentlemen, would you like to pull any items [inaudible]? Mr. Hankerson? Mr. Hankerson: Mr. Mayor, I’d like to pull 53 just for clarification. 22 Mr. Mayor: 53 for Mr. Hankerson. Okay. Any others? Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor, I’d like to pull item 26 for clarification and items 27, 28, and 30. Mr. Mayor: That’s items 26, 27, 28 and 30 for Mr. Williams. Any others? Mr. Wall? Mr. Wall: Well, I think you have people who are here to speak on items 13, 15, 16 and 17. Mr. Mayor: Let’s pull those. 13, 15 -- Mr. Wall: 13, 15, 16, 17. Mr. Mayor: Okay. I’ll have the Clerk reading the zonings. Madame Clerk, if you’ll read the zoning items, and then we’ll proceed. The Clerk: Under the planning portion of the agenda: PLANNING: 1. Z-02-105 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve with the condition that the parking plan will conform with the County Tree Ordinance and that no variance to the Tree Ordinance shall be requested; a petition by Saint Ignacious of Antioch Melkite Church requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of expanding an existing church, including day care services per Section 26-1 (a) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County affecting property located at 1003 Merry Street containing three (3) land parcels totaling .5 acres. (Tax map 45-1 Parcel 136 and 137 and 84) DISTRICT 3 2. Z-02-106 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by McDonald’s Corporation, on behalf of William R. Coleman, Jr., requesting a change of zone from Zone B-1 (Neighborhood Business) and B-2 (General Business) to B-2 (General Business) affecting property located at 2902 Washington Road and containing .93 acres. (Tax Map 12 Parcel 92). DISTRICT 7 3. Z-02-107 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Laney-Walker Development Corporation, on behalf of the City of Augusta, et al, requesting a change of zoning from Zone R-1C (One-family Residential) to Zone B-1 (Neighborhood Business) with a Special Exception for a shopping center having over 15,000 square feet of area per section 21-2 (a) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Richmond County affecting property located on Laney-Walker Boulevard and containing multiple parcels totaling 2.2 acres. (A list of addresses is available at the Planning Commission office). DISTRICT 1 23 4. Z-02-110 – A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve with the following conditions 1) that the development be limited to 19 lots with no road connection to the remainder of this tract or to adjoining tracts and 2) that the paper section of Whitney Street be improved by the petitioner to county standards from where the pavement ends to the subject parcel a petition by Murray Williams requesting a change of zone from Zone R-3B (Multiple-family Residential) with restrictions to Zone R-1C (One-family Residential) on the northernmost 5.63 acres of a 16.1 acre tract fronting on Walden Drive and Whitney Street Extended. (Tax map 57-3 parcel 9) DISTRICT 5 5.ZA-R-152 - An request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve an amendment to the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County deleting section 22-2 (b) related to adult bookstores, adult entertainment establishments, or adult theatres and adding a new Section 28-C entitled Adult Entertainment. 6. ZA-R-153 – An request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve an amendment to the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County amending Section 35 to add language to 35-6 to provide an administrative procedure for implementing reversionary zoning conditions duly imposed by the Governing body. Mr. Wall: On item number 5, in particular I would request that the Commission waive the second reading of that ordinance. Mr. Mayor: Is there unanimous consent to waive the second reading for item number 5? No objection to waiving the second reading. Mr. Cheek? Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, on item 6, just a quick question. Mr. Mayor: Let me dispose of this first, with the Attorney. I have no objection to waiving the second reading of item 5. I recognize Mr. Cheek for discussion of item number 6. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, thank you. Item number 6, reversionary zoning was something my neighborhood used as a first in this city, and I do agree there is a definite need for us to provide some type of procedure. Thought the language was there for the reversionary clause, there was no actual process to find. My question is, and it simply could be a yes or a no. By making the changes recommended, are we weakening this ordinance or are we still -- by making these changes, does this still allow us the ability to revert some of this old zoning that is sitting as trap for neighborhoods and communities throughout the city? Mr. Patty: This actually wouldn’t affect that. This would give the staff the right -- when you put a reversionary clause on a rezoning request, from that amendment, this will give us the right to do it administratively rather than having to advertise it and spend the county’s money on advertising, come back to you guys and let you vote on it again. That’s been the procedure heretofore. We think that’s cumbersome and unnecessary. 24 Mr. Cheek: It sounds like a process improvement to me, Mr. Patty. Mr. Mayor: Are there any objectors here for any of the zoning items that were read out by the Clerk? Any objectors? None are noted. So we have the consent agenda moved, minus items 13, 15, 16, 17, 26, 27, 28, 30 and 53. And a motion to approve. Mr. Mays: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Mr. Mays? Mr. Mays: Just one thing. I just wanted to get one thing clear from Mr. Patty. In a follow-up to what Mr. Cheek was asking him. George, and I may be a little bit off on number 6, but I just wanted to get clarification on it. On reversionary zoning, and I think we do need to get ahead of the game on that, but will that also in the reversionary zoning change there, does that contain any language in that so where you and Jim and myself in rocking chairs, to where you got zoning that’s been done that have restrictions, and I noticed it said some of this may be recorded, is there anything in there that will, when the restrictions or things are put into zoning, that will require it to be where it pops up if I’m the petitioner and I’m going to buy some property or potentially going to buy it, that there is an automatic red flag that exists within that piece of property totally so that there is not an escape situation of where either I, the petitioner, am confused about it, or that we allow it to get into a process and down the road it’s something that the Commission has done ten years prior. Will this help in that language as well? Because I know they only pop up in those one in a thousand categories, but it may be some language in there that zoning is either put in and Commission has voted on, in the old case the old city government voted on, but not read anywhere where that property is located. And if I’m out there buying and speculating to put in a business or to put in a development in there, will this cure that to where that’s automatic [inaudible] that’s there that will show me as a potential buyer that I need to be aware when I go to purchase that property that there are certain restrictions, certain covenants, certain things there that might not be in my best interest. And that may not be what we are dealing with today, but I think if it’s not what we’re dealing with today, we need to get to that as an amendment on it later. I can vote for what’s there, but I think we need to get to that at some point very soon. As Andy was saying, we are running into it a lot, but this is one that doesn’t catch us off guard very often, but it could be when all of us are gone. Mr. Patty: Mr. Mays, since about 1985 we’ve required any condition that you imposed on the rezoning to be incorporated in the deed restriction so that any time that title is checked, it’s there. Now I think what you’re referring to is a problem we had with one that predates that. I think it was 1981. And we’ve gone back and put them on the map. I don’t guess there is any way we can ever put them back on the deed restrictions, but since ’85 every conditional zoning you’ve done, there is a deed restriction on it. Mr. Mays: So that element gets us covered, then? 25 Mr. Patty: Yes, sir. Mr. Mays: That’s what I mainly was trying to find out. Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: A point of clarification. Madame Clerk, would you read the captions for 10 and 11, the two alcohol issues, and we’ll see if we have any objectors for those? The Clerk: 10. Motion to approve a request by Malik Karmi for a retail package Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with Delta Travel Center located at 3403 Mike Padgett Hwy. District 8. Super District 10. (Approved by Public Services Committee September 9, 2002) 11. Motion to approve a request by Un Mee Sands for a retail package Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with Okay Pantry located at 502 Highland Avenue. District 1. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Service Committee September 9, 2002) 12. Motion to approve a request by Katy Ledford for an on premise consumption Liquor, Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with Mellow Mushroom Pizza located at 1167 Broad Street. There will be Sunday sales. District 1. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services Committee September 9, 2002) Mr. Mayor: Are there any objectors to any of those items? None are noted. So we’ll call the question on the consent agenda, which includes the Engineering Services items and those items from the regular agenda. Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Yes, sir, Mr. Williams? Mr. Williams: Could I have number 4 pulled for some clarification, please? Mr. Mayor: Want to pull number 4? Mr. Williams: Number 4. Mr. Mayor: All right, we’ll do that. PLANNING: 1. Z-02-105 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve with the condition that the parking plan will conform with the County Tree Ordinance and that no variance to the Tree Ordinance shall be requested; a petition by Saint Ignacious of Antioch Melkite Church requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of expanding an existing 26 church, including day care services per Section 26-1 (a) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County affecting property located at 1003 Merry Street containing three (3) land parcels totaling .5 acres. (Tax map 45-1 Parcel 136 and 137 and 84) DISTRICT 3 2. Z-02-106 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by McDonald’s Corporation, on behalf of William R. Coleman, Jr., requesting a change of zone from Zone B-1 (Neighborhood Business) and B-2 (General Business) to B-2 (General Business) affecting property located at 2902 Washington Road and containing .93 acres. (Tax Map 12 Parcel 92). DISTRICT 7 3. Z-02-107 - A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Laney-Walker Development Corporation, on behalf of the City of Augusta, et al, requesting a change of zoning from Zone R-1C (One-family Residential) to Zone B-1 (Neighborhood Business) with a Special Exception for a shopping center having over 15,000 square feet of area per section 21-2 (a) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Richmond County affecting property located on Laney-Walker Boulevard and containing multiple parcels totaling 2.2 acres. (A list of addresses is available at the Planning Commission office). DISTRICT 1 4. Deleted from the consent agenda. 5.ZA-R-152 - An request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve an amendment to the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County deleting section 22-2 (b) related to adult bookstores, adult entertainment establishments, or adult theatres and adding a new Section 28-C entitled Adult Entertainment. 6.ZA-R-153 – An request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve an amendment to the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County amending Section 35 to add language to 35-6 to provide an administrative procedure for implementing reversionary zoning conditions duly imposed by the Governing body. 7. FINAL PLAT – BRECKENRIDGE, SECTION 1-B – S-631-1B – A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Southern Partners, Inc, on behalf of Nordahl and Co., Inc., requesting final plat approval of Breckenridge, Section 1-B. This development contains 20 lots and is located on Harper-Franklin Avenue, adjacent to Breckenridge, Section 1-A. 8. FINAL PLAT – WALTON ACRES, SECTION IV – S-630 – A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by James G. Swift & Associates, on behalf of Southern Specialty Development Co., requesting final plat approval for Walton Acres, Section IV. This development contains 48 lots and is located on Mitchell Place, adjacent to Walton Acres, Phase III. PUBLIC SERVICES: 27 9. Motion to approve Change Order Number 3 in the amount of $43,100 to Continental Construction Company, Inc. for McBean Park Project. (Approved by Public Services Committee September 9, 2002) 10. Motion to approve a request by Malik Karmi for a retail package Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with Delta Travel Center located at 3403 Mike Padgett Hwy. District 8. Super District 10. (Approved by Public Services Committee September 9, 2002 11. Motion to approve a request by Yun Mee Sands for a retail package Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with OK Pantry located at 502 Highland Avenue. District 1. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services Committee September 9, 2002) 12. Motion to approve a request by Katy Ledford for an on premise consumption Liquor, Beer & Wine license to be used in connection with Mellow Mushroom Pizza located at 1167 Broad Street. There will be Sunday sales. District 1. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services Committee September 9, 2002) 13. Deleted from consent agenda. 14. Motion to approve the recommendation of the RCSD for a one-year probation of the Alcohol Beverage License held by Ki Kwan Kim used in connection with A’s Convenience Store & Package Shop located at 1857 Gordon Hwy. and that an appropriate Richmond County agent be placed on the license as required by law. District 5. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services Committee September 9, 2002) 15. Deleted from consent agenda. 16. Deleted from consent agenda. 17. Deleted from consent agenda. 18. Motion to approve Amendment to Augusta-Richmond County Code Section 6-2-5 to provide for alcohol sales in the Augusta Common area. (Approved by Commission September 3, 2002 – second reading) 19. Motion to approve renaming the Julian Smith Baseball Field to the Dr. Dan Sullivan Field at Julian Smith. (Approved by Public Services Committee September 9, 2002) ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES: 20. Motion to approve the reclassification of Maintenance Worker I (grade 38) to Customer Service Clerk I (grade 38) Utilities Department. (Approved by Administrative Services Committee September 9, 2002) PUBLIC SAFETY: 21. Motion to approve a request from the Solicitor’s Office to grants/gifts to Rape Crisis in the amount of $25,000 and Domestic Violence Intervention (Safe Homes) in the amount of $10,500 with funding from the 5% Victims Crime Assistance Fund. (Approved by Public Safety Committee September 9, 2002) 22. Motion to approve TeamIA Contract and Scope of Work for conversion of microfilmed information to digital format for January 1, 1999 to October 31, 1999. (Approved by Public Safety Committee September 9, 2002) 28 23. Motion to approve a request for a parking variance to permit spaces that would require backing into Sibley Street at new Fire Station #1. (Approved by Public Safety Committee September 9, 2002) FINANCE: 24. Motion to approve GASB 34 Engagement Letter for Compliance for the Augusta Richmond County Audit Report Fiscal Year ending December 31, 2002. (Approved by Finance Committee September 9, 2002) 25. Motion to approve funding for September 10, 2002 General Primary Run- off. (Approved by Finance Committee September 9, 2002) 26. Deleted from consent agenda. 27. Deleted from consent agenda. 28. Deleted from consent agenda. 29. Motion to approve Contract for Services in the development of trade, commerce, industry and employment opportunities in Augusta, Georgia between Augusta and the Development Authority of Richmond County for calendar year 2002 in the amount of $96,500 with agreed deducts (EDA Grant Match & Richmond Va. Field Trip) (Approved by Finance Committee September 9, 2002) ENGINEERING SERVICES: 30. Deleted from consent agenda. PETITIONS & COMMUNICATIONS: 31. Motion to approve the minutes of the Commission’s regular meeting held September 3, 2002. ENGINEERING SERVICES: 39. Approve Capital Project Budget (CPB# 324-05201150420) in the amount of $95,050 to be funded from Special Purpose Local Option Sales Tax (SPLOST) Phase IV for Records Retention Roof Replacement. Also authorize Public Works and Engineering to award a contract to the low bidder, Osborn and Son Construction Management, in the amount of $30,960.00 to install a new standing seam metal roof over the existing roof subject to execution of contract and receipt of proper bonds. 40. Motion to authorize condemnation of a portion of Tax Map 123, Parcel 7.01, which is owned by Barton Investment Co., Inc. for an easement in connection with the I-520 and SR 56 Intersection Improvements Project, more particularly described as 5,597 acre, more or less, of permanent utility easement. 41. Approve a proposal from Greenhorne & Omara, Inc. (G&O) in the amount of $77,053.00 to provide professional services for the Augusta Utilities Department to design sanitary sewer and water lines associated with the Georgia Department of Transportation’s (DOT) Davis Road and I-20/I-520 Interchange Improvements Projects. 42. Approve adoption of the updated Industrial Sewer Use Ordinance that has been reviewed and approved by the Environmental Protection Division of the Georgia Department of Natural Resources. 29 43. Motion to approve a Resolution requesting a road name change of Lakewood Drive and Lakewood Drive Extension to Lakewood Road. 44. Authorize additional engineering services to Zimmerman, Evans & Leopold in the amount of $285,000 for additional agency consultations, preparation of license application, and stakeholder coordination to support the Augusta Canal licensing effort. 45. Approve contract to purchase a one acre tract for the Butler Creek Greenway. 46. Award contract to Empire Tree and Turf in the amount of $18,730.75, subject to execution of signed contractual documents, for the Tree Removal Project (CPB # 324-06-201160011) funded from the One Cent Sales Tax, Phase IV. 47. Approve a budget amendment to increase both 2002 budget and revenue for the Augusta Richmond County Solid Waste Disposal Facility by $1,040,720. 48. Approve Proposed 2003 LARP Program List. 49. Motion to approve a six-month extension of professional services support with BMS Enterprises, Inc. in an amount not to exceed $70,000 to provide program management support to the Solid Waste Division of the Public Works and Engineering Department. Funding for this extension is from lapsed salaries in this program because of management positions being vacant. 50. Motion to authorize condemnation of a portion of Tax Map 110-4, Parcel 183, which is owned by Stanley M. Seethoff, for a right-of-way in connection with the Windsor Spring Road Improvement Project, Section B, more particularly described as 1,421.77 square feet, more or less, of right-of-way and 4,697.46 square feet, more or less, of temporary construction easement. 51. Motion to approve an Option for Easement between Edward J. Williams, Sr., as owner, and Augusta, Georgia for the following property for a purchase price of $634.00: 400 square feet, more or less, of permanent slope easement and 800.78 square feet, more or less, of temporary construction easement. APPOINTMENT: 54. Consider the Administrator’s recommendation of the appointment of Mr. Phil Wasson as Augusta-Richmond County’s representative on the EMS Region VI Council. 55. Consider the recommendation from the Downtown Development Authority regarding the reappointment of Mr. Sanford Loyd and Ms. Ernestine Howard to a new four-year term. OTHER BUSINESS: st 56. Motion to approve the rescheduling of the Commission’s October 1 regular meeting to Thursday, October 3 due to the Joint Georgia Municipal Association and Association of County Commissioners of Georgia Annual Fall Conference scheduled for September 30 through October 2, 2002. Mr. Mayor: All in favor of the consent agenda, please vote aye. Mr. Colclough: Let it be known I vote no on Sunday sales. 30 Mr. Colclough votes No on Sunday sales portion. [Item 12] Motion carries 8-0. Motion carries 8-0. [items 1-3, 5-11, 14, 18-25, 29, 31, 39-51, 54-56] Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Yes? Mr. Cheek: We do have a delegation, just for your information, on item 32. I’m not sure how many other delegations we have. Mr. Mayor: Let me first jump over to item number 33, and we’ll try to do this to accommodate people who are here in the chamber today. Item 33. Madame Clerk, if you would read the caption. We have a request to delete it from the agenda, so let’s see if we have some people here for this item. The Clerk: 33. Z-02-104 – A request for concurrence with the Augusta Richmond County Planning Commission to approve a petition by Restoration Ministries International, on behalf of SouthTrust Bank, requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing church related recreational activities per Section 26-1 (a) and (I) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta Richmond County affecting property located on the northwest right-of-way line of Woodlake Road where the centerline of Dayton Street extended intersects the northwest right-of-way line of Woodlake Road and containing approximately 31 acres. (Tax Map 130 Parcel 468.4) DISTRICT 4. Mr. Mayor: Is the petitioner here today? Mr. Speaker: [inaudible] Mr. Mayor: Are the objectors, are there objectors here? Would you raise your hands and let us get a count? (37 objectors noted) Mr. Mayor: In anticipation of there being some controversy over this, -- maybe I’ve been listening to Mr. Mays too much -- the representatives from the church came to take another couple of weeks and try see me last week, and I suggested what they do is to meet with the people in the neighborhood to see if they could work out some of the differences with this, and I believe that’s probably why you came today and asked that it be withdrawn today, to give you a chance to work it out with the neighborhood. I’m not going to try to speak for you. 31 Mr. Speaker: That’s correct. Mr. Mayor: They’ve asked for some time to try to work with the neighbors on this to see if they could reach some mutual understanding. It would take a unanimous consent from the Commission to remove it from the agenda. Let me ask the objectors, is there any reason why you couldn’t give the church a couple of weeks to try to talk to you and work something out? [inaudible], you’re the speaker? Ms. Speaker: [inaudible], I’m the president of the homeowners association. And the consensus from everyone is no. Mr. Mayor: You don’t even want to try and talk to them? Mr. Hankerson: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Yes, thank you. Mr. Hankerson: If the request is to take it off the agenda, why are we discussing it? Because the pastor in the church is not here. And you did a count. You said take it off the agenda, we ought to discuss whether we want to take it off the agenda and not discuss it. That’s what [inaudible] to do, take it off the agenda. It’s not an agenda item so it shouldn’t be discussed. Mr. Mayor: Well, it’s not off the agenda unless we have unanimous consent. It’s still on the agenda until the Commission gives unanimous consent to remove it. Mr. Hankerson: But they are speaking. We should give consent whether we want to discuss it or not discuss it. Mr. Mayor: That’s what we’re trying to do right now. To find out if there is unanimous consent to delay it. Mr. Cheek? Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, I would just like to say that knowing that -- and many times trying to get the hours of these meetings moved back where working people could attend without having to take off work -- whenever I see a crows of neighbors here that have taken off from work, they’re going to have a chance to speak if they so desire. We have a problem with the 3 Ds in this city -- delay, defer and deny. And that’s time out for that, according to my twin brother, Commissioner Williams here. I think that there is some ground that can be reached for a compromise in this situation, and I hope that we will reach that ground. But in any event, if the neighbors who live there for many years have their concerns, they will either have time to talk about this, or this Commissioner will not give unanimous consent. Mr. Cheek: I’m sorry, you say you’re not giving us unanimous consent? 32 Mr. Cheek: Unless their issues are address or they’re allowed to speak, which they have at this point and they don’t want to take it off. So in my opinion we’re going to keep it on. Mr. Colclough: Are we going to take it off or leave it on? Mr. Mayor: We do not have unanimous consent to remove it from the agenda. Mr. Cheek -- we could take a motion, the Commission could vote to defer it to another meeting if you wanted to. Mr. Colclough: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Mr. Colclough: Mr. Colclough: Let’s ask the homeowners do you want to leave it on the agenda or take it off? Mr. Speaker: [inaudible] Mr. Mayor: Take if off? All right. Ms. Speaker: Go ahead and take it off. Mr. Mayor: All right. Do we have unanimous consent now to take it off the agenda? Mr. Cheek: Yes. Mr. Mayor: All right. No objection is heard, so item number 33 is deferred from this meeting today. It’s off the agenda. Yes, sir? Mr. Wall: Mr. Mayor, [inaudible], so these people will know [inaudible]? Mr. Mayor: They’ll be notified. Let’s give them a chance to work on it. It’s his item. Mr. Wall: I understand. Mr. Mayor: We’ll let them know. Mr. Colclough will help us. Ms. Speaker: Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Now let’s go it -- I think we’ve got a group of people here for item number 32. Mr. Cheek: 32, Mr. Mayor. 33 Ms. Speaker: [inaudible] Mr. Mayor: Just a moment, ma’am. We’ll get to you. I need the Clerk to read the caption to that item first. The Clerk: 32. Z-02-103 – A request for concurrence with the Augusta Richmond County Planning Commission to approve with the following conditions: 1) that the school be limited to no more than 10 students and 2) that no additional buildings be added to the property; a petition by Bill Williams, on behalf of Regina Bryant, requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a private school per Section 26- 1(b) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta Richmond County affecting property located at 2939 Ulm Road and containing 5.01 acres (Tax Map 151 Parcel 03). DISTRICT 6 Mr. Mayor: Mr. Patty? George, you want to give us the background on this, please? Mr. Patty: Yeah. We have a petition by the same property owner on this property about a year ago for a family day care service which is essentially a baby sitting service which was denied. The petitioner, after a year passed, requested the present, put in the present request for a private school. And the plan that was submitted to us showed a modular school building being located on site. The site is five acres with a nice brick home. It’s a mixture of [inaudible] buildings, manufactured homes surrounding it on Ulm Road. At the meeting, the petitioner refined the request to eliminate the manufactured home as a separate unit on the property and stated that she simply wanted to keep, to teach ten children, no more than ten children, within the home and no additional structures. The Planning Commission felt -- there were objectors -- the Planning Commission felt that given the fact that she’s got five acres that this would not be an intrusion in the neighborhood and approved it. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Patty. Mr. Williams, you’re here on behalf of the petitioner? Mr. Bill Williams: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Do we have any objectors here today? If you would raise your hands? Mr. Wall, would you get a count of them, please? I think they indicated one objector was here and had to leave. Mr. Wall: Five. (5 objectors noted) 34 Mr. Mayor: Five? Is there someone who is going to speak on behalf of the objectors? Okay. Mr. Williams, if you’ll go ahead, please. Mr. Bill Williams: Mr. Mayor, you might want to see if there are some supporters here. I think we’ve got some of those. Mr. Mayor: Bill, I will be glad to do that. People here in support of this petition, if you’d raise your hands, please. Mr. Wall: Five. (5 supporters noted) Mr. Mayor: Five. Balance. Mr. Bill Williams: Mr. Mayor, my name is Bill Williams. I’m an attorney here in this Circuit. It’s my pleasure to represent Regina Bryant, who is standing next to me. She owns a five-acre tract of land on Ulm Road, and I’ve got a blow-up of the plat that I can pass around. She has petitioned for a special exception in order to operate a school, a private school on that property. As you may know, that would be licensed by the State, would have to meet the criteria that the State has established for the building and for the agenda. Her first step, though, is to get approval before she can apply for this license. This property is surrounded on all sides by property that’s either zoned Agricultural or Heavy Industrial. Most of the home sites out there -- it’s pretty close to a mobile home park -- a lot of the structures out there are trailers. Here’s a blow-up of the zoning map which shows this. I’ve got -- Ms. Bryant has handed me several pictures that represent the structures and [inaudible] places. We believe that her proposed use of this property is certainly innocuous. There will be no danger that it’s going to strain any infrastructure, and the school will be operated during normal school hours, which means there will be no nighttime activities, no weekend activities. As Mr. Patty indicated to you, we agreed to certain stipulations that the Planning Commission approved, and that is there will be no more than ten children, there will be no new buildings built on the site. And I thought, George, that we also agreed on reversion if it ceased to be used as a school, [inaudible] changing the zoning but there was some question about that. Mr. Patty: There were only two conditions in the resolution from the Planning Commission. Mr. Bill Williams: Well, we would agree that whatever the present zoning is, that if the school ceased to operate the present zoning would still be in place. I would suggest to you respectfully that this is the highest and best use of the property, that under the thth United States Constitution, especially the 5 and 14 Amendments, and under Georgia Constitution, that Ms. Bryant has a Constitutional right to use this property for the purpose that she has selected. And if there is no compelling public purpose or reason to deny her the right to use that property. She’s here and I’m here and if y’all have any questions we’ll be glad to try to answer them. 35 Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Williams. Let’s, if we may, hear from the objectors and then we’ll move on to questions. If you will, please give us your name and address for the record. Ms. Collins: I am Anna Collins, and I live at 2933 Ulm Road. Our property is adjacent to the property that Ms. Bryant is going to put a private school on. I have a Constitutional rights as an American citizen also, to not want a school put next door to me. In the beginning, this property, I understood, was going to be a family day care. Then the next thing, it was going to be a day care. Now, it is going to be a private school. They were not supposed to have but ten children. Now no one can tell me that there is only six children going to that school with as many vehicles that goes up the road, because my property -- if you’ll see on there, we have three acres of land and her house sits back here and the back part of our property comes here. She’s back behind our house, sits right over in here. The lady that had to leave and go back to work, she lives in a modular home, just where the driveway that comes into Ms. Bryant’s property and the vehicles go right by her bedroom window. Her husband is a long-distance truck driver, and a lot of times he’s having to sleep in the daytime. This is a residential area. We do not need another business out in that area. If she bought the property under the assumption that she could have any kind of business she wanted to, I think -- my consensus is that she should have checked out the property. I understand she came from Sand Ridge. She had a day care in Sand Ridge. It was not licensed but she came over onto Ulm Road. And I oppose it. My husband is 79 years old and as you can on oxygen. He is not in the best of health. And I’m 74 years of age. And I don’t think we need this adjacent to our home. Ulm Road is a heavily traveled road. We have enough traffic as it is on the road without having this. As far as schools, we have school buses that go to any school you would almost want to go. Come right up and down Ulm Road. And there are adequate building around, that if she wanted to have a day care or a school or whatever, she could have gotten out of a residential area to have a school or day care or whatever she wanted to have. And I come to you as the County Commissioners on behalf of -- we are taxpayers -- to say no. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Are there any objectors, any other objectors who would like to speak? Ms. Collins: Well, she had to leave. Is there anything you’d like to say [inaudible]? The other lady, like I said, it went right by her house. She had to leave and go back to work. She was [inaudible] for an hour and she had to leave and go back. Mr. Mayor: Thank you very much. Mr. Cheek? Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, thank you. I appreciate what we’re trying to do here as far as provide a school and a place for children. I have to restate my position from nearly a year ago when we discussed this as a personal care home. One thing I will note initially is that this so-called trailer park next to Ulm Road, Great Lakes Subdivision, has underground utilities and other things that the nicer neighborhoods in this community 36 have. It was intended to be a very nice residential neighborhood. Any decline in that area that has occurred is a result of this city neglecting its duty to keep a tight rein on some of the slum lords that are in that area. Some of these same slum lords in this area have been in court numerous times these last three years and will continue to be in court because we will be cleaning up the problems in this area. The pictures do not do this area justice. They are not fully in color. They did leave out a number of the very nice homes that surround this area. This particular property was clear cut just before it was purchased, is my understanding. There is a dirt road that runs from Ulm Road to the property. We will be introducing 20 to 30 vehicles, additional vehicles, to that driveway which is literally inches from the fence, the property line, and within feet of the window of the home next door. This will create a tremendous dust problem alone, not to mention a noise problem and an additional problem with the many vehicles entering Ulm Road, which is a cut-through point for people from Karleen Road, from Tobacco Road, over to Willis Foreman Road. It is again an attempt to introduce a for-profit entity into a residential neighborhood. This, too, that has been allowed to occur in the city, in this particular and other areas is a result of neglect of this city to follow through on existing laws to limit the intrusion of non-licensed businesses into residential neighborhoods. Gentlemen, again, what is the intent from the heart of the petitioner is noble, but the allowance of a for-profit business into a residential neighborhood is a dangerous thing that has caused nothing but problems throughout this entire city. We have been fighting this for years, and I urge you, I plead with you to deny this. In effect, Mr. Mayor, I’m going to make a motion that we deny the recommendation of the Planning Commission and deny this application for a special exception. Mr. Mayor: Is there a second to that motion? Mr. Kuhlke: I’ll second it to get it on the floor. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Kuhlke. We have a motion and second to deny this. Ma’am, you had your hand up back there? Ms. Lofton: Yes, I was just in favor of it. Mr. Mayor: Well, if you’d like to come up to the podium and give us your name and address. Ms. Lofton: Yvonne Lofton, and I’m here as a trustee for the Bagwell Family Trust, and the Bagwell Family Trust owns 7-1/2 acres with the entrance there on Ulm Road. And I just wanted to say that I understand the concern of the Collins about this, but they’ve been the major objectors to the day care and to Ms. Regina having a business there. But the fact of the matter is, I was raised out there in that area, and this is not, as Mr. Cheek says, not a really nice neighborhood. Most everything that is out there is low- rent housing, low-end trailer parks, and we’re not talking about Great Lakes, which is owned individually. We’re talking about for-profit rental trailer parks, where the people do not own the trailers that they are living in. that is a for-profit business, in my opinion. And the Collins family has been instrumental, them and their children, have been 37 instrumental in putting the majority of those trailers out there and run those low-rent trailer parks. And that’s been the worst factor that we’ve had in that neighborhood over the years. And as far as there being a lot of nice homes in that area, as far as I know there’s only been one new home, stick-built home, built in the last 20 years in that area, and there’s about six nice homes, brick homes in that area, and everything else is basically sub-standard housing. I am a real estate agent and have been for 25 years, so I know what I’m talking about when I say the neighborhood is very depressed because of the trailer park problem. And I think that what Regina is trying to do is going to be good for the neighborhood. I don’t see how it could detract. She’s got plenty of room there to do what she’s trying to do. And Mr. and Mrs. Collins, you know, they have moved in twice next to businesses on that same road, and they haven’t complained before. They moved next to the Bagwell Upholstery Shop, which was the property I’m representing today, when it was there, and they also moved next to Mrs. LaFontaine, who used to live in the house that Regina owns right now, and that was a business for years. Mrs. LaFontaine ran a business out of that, and the Collins never complained. There really weren’t any serious complaints from them until Regina came there, and I don’t know if it’s because is a black lady or what, but every other business owner out there has been white, and it just kind of upsets me that Regina is trying to do something good and work and support herself and help other single mothers and people to have a place to bring their children the day while they work, and I just think it ought to be approved. I don’t see how it could possibly detract from the neighborhood, cause it would be the -- in fact, it’s the nicest house on the street. It’s the biggest house, it’s got the highest tax value, it’s the nicest property out there, and I just want to say that don’t be misled into thinking that this is going to detract from the neighborhood because it will be the nicest thing out there. That’s all I have to say. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: All right. Ms. Collins, did you have your hand up? I thought you did. She talked about you. Did you want to come up and say something about what she said about you? Ms. Collins: Well, I’d like for her or any of the rest of them to come inside my home, if it’s low class. That’s just what I would like for them to do. I had no objections to Ms. Bagwell. She ran the upholstery shop when I moved there. It was pre-existing. To my knowledge, Ms. LaFontaine did not have a business when I moved there. That is completely not connected with this situation right here. And as far as low class, her mother lives right in the same neighborhood, so does she class their folks as living in a low class neighborhood? And I have another person here who wants to speak. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. We will let everyone speak who wants to be heard, but let me ask you, please, we’re not here to engage in any personal discussions, so let me remind those who are speaking let’s try to stick to the issue of the special exception if we could. We’ve got some other people in the audience who would like to speak. I’ll give you a moment if you will. Ms. Collins: [inaudible] 38 Mr. Mayor: Yes, ma’am, I’m going to ask him for his address when he gets up here. And I would ask, if you would, please, if you have some information to share with us -- we don’t need everybody repeating the same thing. Mr. Skinner: The only thing I would like to say -- Mr. Mayor: Would you give us your name address for the record, please? Mr. Skinner: My name is Thomas E. Skinner. I was born there 66 years ago. Mr. Mayor: And your address is? Mr. Skinner: My house is valued -- I pay taxes -- $150,000. I have a daughter that just built a house across the road from her that I would say is valued at close to $200,000. Two story. The only neighborhood that she’s talking about is bad, her house is worse [inaudible]. It’s just that you don’t need a business right in there. In my opinion. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Thank you. Let’s hear from these ladies over here. Give us your name and address for the record, please. Ms. Speaker: My name is [inaudible] and I live 2776 Vera Creek Road. My 3- year-old attends Ms. Regina’s day care. One of the concerns that my husband and I [inaudible] military have is the fact that we own a house in Richmond County and pre- school is by lottery in Georgia. There are no private schools on the Hephzibah side of [inaudible] for my child to go and be competitive when she gets to kindergarten at five, to go to a pre-K, I’ll have to drive her over to Wheeler to take her to the nearest Montessori school. The unfortunate thing about that is based on our mission, if we deploy or we have to go [inaudible], who will take our child to that school? No bus services will come over the Hephzibah. We bought our house in Hephzibah in good faith, coming from overseas, not know how you break up Richmond County and Columbia, and all your schools and all your activities are sitting on the other side of town. We are willing to support the Hephzibah side of the house, but Hephzibah needs more, and in reference to the neighborhood and the traffic, unfortunately because we are doing construction at Gate 5, when we come out, we have got to come down Ulm as a detour. We no longer can go down the Deans Bridge Road. So traffic is already heavy. And in regards to coming past her window in the morning, gentlemen, when I bring my child to that day care in the morning, I’m not concerned about what’s happening in the house next door. We focus is on getting my child in there. We do it quietly. I don’t think I kick up any more traffic bringing my child to Regina’s day care than I would if she and I were soulful friends and I came to visit her. I’d still be going up her same driveway. Because her property sits so far back, it’s not a very nice neighborhood, Mr. Mayor, it really isn’t. And across where Regina is are a lot of trailer parks [inaudible]. So getting back from the street helps us take her there because she [inaudible] she’s not going to run out in the street and hit traffic because she’s so far back. Her playground area is even behind the house. So I appeal to you as a homeowner. And the other thing I’d like to say is because Gate 5 is 39 widening to four lanes, you’ll have more people who will want to buy a house in Hephzibah because we’ll have better access [inaudible] and we need more in Hephzibah to entice the military who want to live on that side of the house. All the homeowners, including the Sergeant Major of Fort Gordon, now building a house on the other side of Augusta in Grovetown. And when I asked people, when we were looking for house, they said because the education was better on the other side of town and because you have more activities. On Saturday morning, sir, I get up and drive my child to the Little Gym on Walton Way exchange at eight o’clock in the morning because I don’t have anywhere to take her on that side. And we need to put more on that side to entice people to buy on that side. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Yes, ma’am, if you’ll give us your name and address for the record, please. Ms. Stalling: Yes, my name is Vanessa Stallings and I live at 3670 Woodcock Drive, not too far from Ms. Regina. My daughter is a single parent and she takes her child to Ms. Regina. And by far, we’ve been here in this area because we are prior military also. We’re retired here. She’s telling the truth. We had to bus our other grandchildren to other places because there was nowhere in Hephzibah that we could take the children. Ms. Regina is excellent with the children, and there are only six children in her care. She takes excellent care. You go in there, she’s teaching them their ABCs. And these are toddlers. These are not first graders, second graders, third graders. These are toddlers. But she is preparing them to go into pre-K with some knowledge so they can be ahead when they get in the first grade. She does an excellent job. And the only traffic that I’ve encountered was at the trailer park. It was not from Ms. Regina. And the children were standing out in front of the trailer park. They were having parties, drinking beer, but it was not Ms. Regina. It was at the trailer park. And along the road, there is nothing but single trailers. All [inaudible]. I don’t know where the two-story house is, but that’s not near Ms. Regina’s home. And when we come into Ms. Regina’s property, even if I’m coming out meeting another parent, we’re always going slow up the road. We’re not making noise. When you hear the noise, it’s across the way where the guys are revving up their engines on their cars. I guess they’re out there joking around, but they are the ones that are revving up the engine, drinking their beer. But when you go to Ms. Regina’s home, you come into a nice, serene environment. And in fact, that’s why we chose her because everywhere else across town where we were trying to go, the child resisted. And you know, you can tell when a child is unhappy. But when we met her for the very first time, out child went to her. No problem. Because that’s the kind of environment she has in her home. It’s a very nice environment and I say that it should be approved because Ms. Regina does give very good care, is in a good location. Like she said, the playground is behind the home. It’s not in front. So you don’t even hear the children. You don’t even hear the children when they are outside. She takes very good care, and she’s trying to keep her property up. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Yes, ma’am? Ms. Bryant: I would like to say something. 40 Mr. Mayor: You are the petitioner? Ms. Bryant: Yes, I am Ms. Regina, and what I’m here for is a special exception. The special exception allows me to have a private school. It does not change zoning. I’m zoned Agriculture. We already have horses, we have cows, we have roosters, we have dog pens, and all I’m trying to do is help that side of Augusta education-wise. And I’m baffled. I’m really baffled. I’m looking at what Planning & Zoning have here for special exception and it says that the benefits of home school are greater than any possible depreciation effect and damages to the neighboring properties, which having a private school is going to raise the standards in that trailer park. I don’t know what -- we are all surrounded by trailers. There is kids that are in the roads, that are in the streets. My kids are not there. So what I’m saying is if there is a private school, it’s going to cause that trailer park to bring its standards up. And I know that’s going to cost money. But when you put those trailers there and let them go down, I don’t have nothing to do with that. And I know someone is afraid to have a school in their area because of the trailer park, it’s going to cause security, it’s going to cause more policemen to be around, and we need that. And they are going to see what goes on in that trailer park, that is far more worse than what I could ever do. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Some of the Commissioners have indicated they wanted to -- yes, Mr. Williams? Mr. Bill Williams: Yes, sir. I wanted ten seconds. Mr. Mayor: All right. Mr. Bill Williams: Commissioner Cheek said that unlicensed, for-profit businesses in residential neighborhoods. First of all, for her to offer a school, she’s got to be licensed through the State. And she can’t make that application until she gets this approved. And her intent is to operate a non-profit corporation. Not a for-profit business. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. We’ll hear from Mr. Cheek and then Mr. Williams. Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Non-profit should also be listed for the record to pay things like the cost of the building and staff, which would include the homeowner. In the last two years and nine months, we’ve introduced trash collection to this area which has drastically improved the appearance of the area. We have had some of the trailer park owners and the rest of slated to be in court to clean up their act. I, for one, have not sat by idly and written this place off as a bad neighborhood. We have made drastic efforts with Code enforcement from the Marshal’s Department and every other government agency we can bring to bear to clean this area up. The reason it has a problem is because of government neglect. People have written it off in the past, and it sounds to me like some folks are quite willing to live with the problems that exist in the neighborhood, and that’s how neighborhoods begin to go down and eventually become 41 places where people who leave Gate 5, drive past, to go to other areas further away. I have no beef, no problem at all with the intent of this petitioner. I think again it is a noble, noble cause that she is pursuing. Every report I have had concerning Ms. Bryant has been exemplary as far as her as an individual and how she takes care of the kids. Again, I will say that every time this Commissioner has heard of a for-profit business being operated in this neighborhood or any other, we have aggressively tried to pull them out. If we open the door and allow this to happen, legally go through this process and we open the door for other special exceptions to occur within this area -- we are recovering this area. I would hope we could see the formation of neighborhood associations and a whole lot less tolerance for a neighborhood that people live in and calling it a low rent neighborhood. Lace Road is nearby and it has some very nice homes. And the Great Lakes subdivision, I’m finding people that are doing semi-maintenance in their homes, and it’s taken us years to go this through the court process to deal with it. My concern is for additional traffic next door to a home, within feet of their house, on a dirt road, and the introduction of a business. Whether you call it for profit or not for profit, there are still wages being paid, there is still income coming in, being generated as a result of the activities that are being performed within that home. I, for one, am very disturbed by the fact that there is a place within my District that we are calling not a nice place to live. We have been conducting a lot of activities to clean that area up. It is an ongoing process. It’s been neglected for over 40 years, and some of these 40-year slum lords are in court, they don’t like it. But again, the introduction of a business into a neighborhood has the potential for demeaning the property values of the surrounding homes. Now with this special exception, if it’s sold, does it revert back to its original zoning? Mr. Wall: Mr. Williams said that they were agreeable to that stipulation. Mr. Patty: And there would be no zoning change. This would be just special permission to do this one thing. Mr. Cheek: And also, Mr. Patty, while you’re there. Haven’t you and I been in discussions about the problem with the agricultural zoning and the residential nature of this area? Mr. Patty: Yes, sir. Mr. Cheek: And we are addressing that. Because there’s roughly four square miles of area but as many as 6,000 homes in it. It’s zoned agricultural. Again, that’s the neglect of this city to change the zoning to be appropriate with the use of the land. But again, no problem with Ms. Bryant. I think that there is a need for the day care in that area. There are several on Windsor Spring Road, very close to Spirit Creek and other places out there. Very, very nice folks that run them, and they do a quality job. We just had one go in there at Turkey Trail at Windsor Spring, as a matter of fact. That is a commercial corridor. Tobacco Road is a commercial corridor. We need to concentrated businesses, for profit or not, on commercial corridors and leave neighborhoods alone. And I ask the Commission to please consider the precedent we will be establishing by allowing this special exception. 42 Mr. Mayor: Mr. Williams? Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I’ve got one question and got a couple of comments. I want to either the attorney for the applicant or the applicant person itself. Have you applied for a personal care home at this address? I mean it was stated twice, I think, that it was a personal care home been applied for. Mr. Bill Williams: Not to my knowledge. My client is shaking her head no. Ms. Bryant: [inaudible] Mr. Williams: Okay. I wanted to establish that. The next thing I want to say is free enterprise. You know, we talk about trying to better ourselves and do some things and Commissioner Cheek and I been very, very close on a lot of items. One we probably differ on today, and y’all might want to write that down cause history don’t repeat itself too often. A job create work, but a business create jobs. Everybody can’t find a commercial piece of property. When you talk about business, when you just name the word commercial everything changes. The price as far as purchasing or renting or anything else you want. But if you got five acres of land and you can’t do, put a school or a facility for ten children on five acres of land, then you can’t put it nowhere in the United States. I’m sad when we can’t come together as a community and work together and say -- and I understand, I wouldn’t want someone coming in putting up a garage next to my house, which some people think a garage already there. But I had a man to come to me on yesterday while I was riding the mower, cutting the grass, lives about four streets over. We talked with Rob Sherman in License & Inspection where he’s infested with rats. And he said he wants to come, he plans to come to our committee meeting on next week where he has killed over a hundred where people have let property go wild, so to speak, grow up and nobody attend to it. But you got somebody who is trying to bring something positive to the neighborhood and something that is going to be beneficial to it, not only old folks, but young folks as well. The future of this country, trying to do something on an educational level, trying to train folks. Now if they was talking about having a basketball court to train children how to shoot basketballs, you going to say well, we have a lot of different activities in there, here he is talking about small children that we going to educate to try to get them prepared for the future of this country. When you talk about computers and laptops and I’ve got folks asking me now about getting on the internet, and I tell them I’m still on a fax machine. But it’s crazy when we can’t see the impact of a positive situation in an area like this. Now I remember when this same property came up last year, and the vote denied it because we felt it was going to be something that we couldn’t deal with. But from all I’ve heard today, I’m going to make a substitute motion that we approve the application that Planning and Zoning has already approved, that with those stipulations be placed in that, stipulation that they will revert back of any changes are made. Those stipulations, I think, George Patty said there was two that was made. And I think if they in agreement with anything else, I think we ought to try to work together and do that. I’m making that in the form of a motion. And if I 43 don’t get a second on it, then I don’t get a second. But I’m making that in the form of a motion, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: Is there a second to that motion? Mr. Kuhlke: I’ll second. Mr. Mayor: The motion is seconded. Mr. Kuhlke, you had your hand up? Mr. Kuhlke: I was going to do the same thing he did. Mr. Mayor: All right. Mr. Cheek? Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, just for the record, there have been children kept in this home, six, according to the law, for the last year. One year ago there was a zoning request to have the zoning change on this property to allow a day care center to be built on this property. So there have been attempts in the past to change this into a business. Once again, I’ll go back to this, this is a business in a residential neighborhood, no matter how noble or well-intentioned it is. We in the south of the city have a lot of very inexpensive property that can be as a result of precedence set similar to this, be purchased and then converted into for-profit businesses and then those same people that live there or own those properties can go live in Columbia County and come do whatever in these properties. And to me, this is a dangerous precedent. Again, I’ll restate I’ve heard nothing but good about Ms. Bryant. A laud her attempts to reach out and meet the needs of the community. I think that’s very noble. But again, one year ago we had an attempt, the initial attempt was for as many as 26 kids in this home. Then it was phased down as a result of the discussions on this very floor, when it was denied to allow a day care to be operated within the home. Now we’re back for another business license, basically a special exception that’s going to allow a business into the home. We’re fighting to reclaim this area. The use of residential property for businesses is not a case where I’ve ever seen it be a positive for the community. Again -- well, I conclude my comments, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: All right. Mr. Kuhlke, you want to call the question? Mr. Kuhlke: I do. Mr. Mayor: All right. The question has been called. The Chair rules there has been adequate debate and discussion on these motions. The substitute motion will be voted on first. That’s the motion from Commissioner Williams to approve. All in favor of the substitute motion, please vote aye. (Vote on substitute motion) Mr. Colclough and Mr. Cheek vote No. Mr. Shepard out. Motion fails 5-2. 44 Mr. Mayor: That takes us to the original motion from Commissioner Cheek, and that was to deny the request. All in favor of that motion, please vote aye. (Vote on original motion) Mr. Boyles, Mr. Williams, Mr. Kuhlke and Mr. Hankerson vote No. Mr. Mays abstains. Mr. Shepard out. Motion fails 2-4-1. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Shepard will be returning to the chamber a little bit later if you want to table this and take it back up again before the meeting is over. We could entertain a motion to do that. Mr. Mays: So move. Mr. Kuhlke: Second Mr. Mayor: All in favor of tabling the item, please vote aye. Mr. Colclough and Mr. Cheek vote No. Mr. Shepard out. Motion fails 5-2. Mr. Mayor: So this is a no action item, and it will be back on the agenda at our rd next meeting. What’s the date of our next meeting? The 3? rdrd Mr. Wall: The 3. October 3. rd Mr. Mayor: Thursday, October 3. Two o’clock. Let’s see, we have an item where there has been some agreement over a disagreement. That’s item 52. So let’s take that up. Need a little boost here. Got some sides that worked something out. Madame Clerk, if you’ll read the caption, please. The Clerk: HISTORIC PRESERVATION: 52. Consider appeals request of the 635 Broad Investment Co., LLC regarding the Historic Preservation Commission denial of their request for a Certificate of Appropriateness relative to property located at 631-639 Broad Street. (Deferred th from the August 20 Committee meeting) Mr. Mayor: Mr. Pittman, it’s good to see you with us today, and I believe you and Mr. Simon have worked something out on this; is that correct? 45 Mr. Pittman: We did, Mr. Mayor. The Historic Preservation Commission met with Mr. Simon and Azalea Development Corporation on two occasions, on Thursday, August 28 and Wednesday, September 5. After long discussions and conclusion of the second meeting, the Historic Preservation Commission voted to approve the demolition of the warehouse for a number of reasons. First and foremost, so that the -- after looking at the building we determined that nothing could be done with it that would be cost feasible or cost effective. We also determined that demolishing this warehouse would enable us to save the main structure, which is the Barrett Supply building on the Broad Street storefronts. It would open up the back of the façade of the Barrett building so it would have a view of Reynolds Street and a top floor view of the Savannah River. It would also allow for some 75 additional parking spaces. And in that plan, Mr. Simon and his group also discussed the fact that they are willing to build a New Orleans style [inaudible] looking park area behind the Barrett building before the parking commences for about 30 or 40 feet. And in sum total, we felt that this was a good combination of historic preservation from the point of view that we are saving the historic Barrett building and it’s a good compromise for economic development as well because saving the building is going to be good for the economy of each of us. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Simon, did you want to add to that? Mr. Simon: Only that you have a good Commission. We had two meetings. All of them showed up, I think, except one, on each of those occasions. They worked hard, they went to the site. Very good discussions. I think we ended up with good results. This shows a rendering that we didn’t have at the last meeting to present to the Commissioners. It indicates the quality of what we plan to do with the building that is there and the parking that will be in the rear of that building. I want to thank Sonny and the Commission for the work they did and the cooperation we had and supporting what we are trying to do. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. The Chair would just like to note, I want to commend both sides for working on this and coming up with a compromise. The development work downtown in the historic district of this city is always a challenge because you’re dealing with historic structures. And when we can work out our differences, that’s always the best course of action than to sit here and fight over things, and everybody ends up losing in those cases. Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Mr. Cheek? Let me recognize Mr. Cheek and then we’ll come over here to this side. Mr. Cheek:I just want Mr. Mayor, this is an example of the process working. to make a motion to approve allowing the demolition and to proceed with the development of this property. Mr. Williams: Second. 46 Mr. Mayor: Motion and second. Discussion? Mr. Boyles: My recognition would have been to make the same motion Mr. Cheek made. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Mr. Mays? Mr. Mays: Yes, Mr. Mayor. I still think it’s good when people talk. I made that motion when they came before us earlier and we were talking about not only the New Orleans style, but what we’ve seen there, what we’ve seen in Savannah, and I think it can give us not only -- and hopefully this will be approved and it will be approved unanimously -- that it will give a sparkplug to whatever may come behind this, even though it may not come before your Commission to have to even demolish something, but those things for ideas in downtown and for future parking, that in keeping with the historic setting and of giving that the idea [inaudible], and when I said that about Paul Simon at that meeting, that I knew we had a good Commission, but I also said you were going to meet one of the most creative people that I knew, and that you all could be able to work out something, and I think that’s proof of that which you have down there on that map today, and maybe when those other decks are built and that they will come and as the activity and as businesses increase, that they can also get the opportunity to resemble what you all have put together on a start, an in doing that, so that in some cases, like in those historic cities, you can’t tell whether or not you’ve got a building that’s occupied with people or whether you’ve got a building that’s occupied with cars, and I think that gives us a much better look than just a lot of concrete and asphalt jungles. It does something that is good there and it keeps the historic look at the same time. Mr. Simon: Thank you for your comment, too, Mr. Mays. Mr. Mayor: All right. Anything further? We have a motion to approve. All in favor of the motion, please vote aye. Mr. Shepard out. Motion carries 7-0. Mr. Simon: Thank you very much. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Mr. Pittman: Thank you. Mr. Simon: Thank you, Sonny. Mr. Hankerson: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Yes? 47 Mr. Hankerson: We have a group that’s waiting on 35. Would it be any problem -- some of them already had to leave to go to work? Mr. Mayor: All right. We can move ahead and take that item up. We sure can. Item number 35 will be our next item. Madame Clerk, if you’ll read the caption, please. The Clerk: 35. Z-02-109 – A request for concurrence with the Augusta Richmond County Planning Commission to deny a petition by George H. Anderson, Jr. on behalf of George H. Anderson Trust, requesting a change of zoning from Zone B-1 (Neighborhood Business) to Zone B-2 (General Business) affecting property located at 1439 and 1441 Twelfth Street and contains .17 acres (Tax Map 59-1 Parcel 428). DISTRICT 2 Mr. Mayor: Mr. Patty? Mr. Patty: This property contained a bar and a liquor store. The bar had an entertainment establishment attached to it. Pool tables and that sort of thing. At some point, more than two years ago, the use of that side of the property ceased. The liquor store continued to operate. And both at that point were operating as what we call non- conforming uses in that B-1 zoning would not support those if they were to be established today. The liquor store continues as a legal non-conforming use to the best of my knowledge, but because the bar and pool hall and entertainment establishment ceased to operate for over two years, they couldn’t start back when that was desired by the property owner to do so. So they had to apply for rezoning for B-2. The plan, the neighborhood plan for that area opposes any re-establishment of these type non-conforming uses. It also opposes spot zoning. There was substantial objection to it, and the Planning Commission voted to deny it. Mr. Mayor: Is the petitioner here today? Mr. Anderson: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Are there any objectors here for this item? If you’d just raise your hands and let’s get a count. Mr. Speaker: We do have about 15 or 20 people, Mr. Mayor, that had to leave to go back to work. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. The record will reflect that. It’s been a busy day here today. All right. (15-20 objectors noted) 48 Mr. Mayor: Give us your name and address for the record and we’ll go ahead. Mr. Anderson: My name is George Anderson. I live at 3107 Bryndell Drive in the west part of Richmond County. I sold my business, my liquor store. There was at one time a bar also in the same commercial building. The building has been ongoing since before I was born. It has quite a long track record in the neighborhood. One of the comments I heard form someone who lives several blocks away prior to the Planning and Zoning board action, was that this was not the type of business we want when we are trying to rebuild this neighborhood. The fact of the matter is the neighborhood’s population has been declining over the last several years. There are more empty buildings now, houses now than there were a year or two years ago, or ten years ago. I’ve been there a long time. I drew up a chart showing, and I’ll be glad to pass this around, showing what I think is a high number of vacant, burned out, or boarded up houses in the area, the immediate neighborhood of my ex-liquor store, which is highlighted in yellow, which is about at the center of that chart. There’s a lot of vacant lots. Some houses have been razed. Even since I did that, a house I think this past Friday or Saturday was razed. There are several lots that have nothing on them now. People have moved out of the neighborhood in far greater numbers than they have moved in the neighborhood. So now we have a point where a businessman has come in the neighborhood, investing his own money in a business because he believes in the neighborhood. He’s not doing it with public funds, he’s not asking for any taxpayer guarantees. He’s the one at risk. I have to ask for the zoning change [inaudible] sell the property. We have several sheets of people who agree that we should be able to open that up. Should I pass this forward? Mr. Mayor: If you’ll give that to the Clerk. Thank you. Mr. Anderson: There is currently a retail package alcohol license at that location. It’s going on, again, since before I was born. He only wishes to expand and to put more people to work. I think that’s something that not only we should agree with, but we should encourage someone who is investing his own money in what can best be described as a dilapidated neighborhood. Thank you for your time in listening. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, George. Do we have a spokesman or some people from the neighborhood who would like to speak? Give us your name and address for the record, please. Rev. Speaker: I’m the pastor of [inaudible] Baptist Church located at 1232 Anderson Avenue, and what I’m hearing that this will do nothing but help the neighborhood, I would have to disagree. Because the only pocket that it’s going to be helping is the owner, the proprietor. The community has declined because of crime, because of drugs, because of alcohol, and all of the other things that are always in that community. However, our effort as a church has been within the last -- as Mrs. Armstrong stated on the last time that we were here when we met -- was our vision for that neighborhood is to build it back up. Yes, it’s been that way for quite some time. However, our church -- I can speak for our church -- has been trying to reverse that 49 process or cycle within the community. Within the neighborhood. To add a club now when there is already existing fires in that area and those fire being drugs, those fires being crack, those fires being all other kind of things that happen in that particular area where women are on the street from corner to corner is nothing but causing now more, adding more fuel to the fire that already exists there. We have a problem now with the area now that he’s in with the liquor store where people come and leave their beer bottles and all those other things in and around that area. Those are children that might migrate to the church on Sunday and all throughout the week. We’re at the church on a nightly basis, with the exception on maybe Monday, and even then our clean-up crews are there on that particular day. So the majority of our members that were here are not able to be here right now because they had to go back to work. Grandparents that had to go and pick up their grandchildren. I just don’t see where we’re trying to help the community out by adding this type of facility there. The track record on it hasn’t been great. And the reason why the decline has been in the community for what it is right now is because of the type of businesses that we are trying to put inside of those areas. If you want to do something in that area to help the community, do something other than alcohol, bringing alcohol into the area. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Mr. Speaker: I would like to note that I brought a renowned, a well known voice in the community, my mentor in the ministry, Rev. J. S. Wright, who has agreed to be here because he’s been my [inaudible] in the ministry now for the last seven years as a member of Macedonia Baptist Church, where he is pastor emeritus, but still an active force in the community. And he [inaudible] probably better than I can. But I just want to appeal to you to deny, deny that this place be reopened or added to what is already existing there. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Commissioner Williams? Mr. Williams: Yes, sir, Mr. Mayor. This [inaudible] is part of my District and I take my hat off to both pastors there who have been -- Rev. Wright has been active in this community, like the pastor said, for a long time. But this is a part of my District and this thth is the area that’s been detrimental to 12 Street or known to be detrimental to 12 Street for many, many, many years. Mr. Anderson is correct. Probably before he was born that that facility has been there. And it’s been nothing but a negative force the entire time it’s been there. We talking about businesses being in the residential area. Our last person that’s left, we talked about business. But this is something that’s sure to bring the neighborhood down more. You say well how can it do that? Well, when you make alcohol readily available to an alcoholic, I mean he’s going to have assets to get it even quicker. And the ministers talked about the containers that’s left all around this town. This has been a sore eye in our community for a long, long, long time. And I’m not in support of anything but denying. I don’t know what else I could say to make you understand how bad it has been for our community. We got kids on every corner, but on every corner in the inner city you got a liquor store as well. And we allowed them to be I’m going there as government officials and I can’t support anything else but denying it. 50 to make that in the form of a motion, Mr. Mayor, that we go ahead and we deny this and go on with our other business. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor: All right. We have a motion to deny that’s been seconded. Additional comments? Mr. Cheek? Mr. Cheek: Mr. Mayor, just an observation. I know that I’ve heard several comments and I’ve seen the chart about the vacant lots and empty houses. I know that this was a very viable neighborhood at one time, and just an observation, I believe that you can track a history back to the decline of any neighborhood directly proportional to the inappropriate zoning or special uses that you allow in them. Mr. Mayor: Anything further? Mr. Mays? Mr. Mays: Mr. Mayor, George, you may want to help me out with this, George Patty. Got a lot of different Georges here today. But one of things that I think was done at the particular time that this non-compliance issue came up, and you touched on it a little bit, was the fact that while there had been historic [inaudible] non-compliance, that at the time Bethlehem Neighborhood Association, some of the older heads at that time, which were my right hand, Deacon Willie Cooper is [inaudible], a lot of people, Ms. Powell was active, and one of the compromises that was made at that time, so that we just would not [inaudible] that business out, because there were a lot of things that the Anderson had done there that were [inaudible] was that the current business was allowed to stay as is, while the club section was closed. And that was the spirit of the compromise that was there. And I think while we’ve got, while we’ve got a neighborhood, while we have a person of good reputation, a good family that’s here, we made that compromise as a governmental body, not necessarily the same people. Some of the people were here on the neighborhood side, are no longer with us now or are incapacitated, they can’t come. But I think to disrupt that spirit of what was put together in that time and neighborhood, because it could have been fought maybe in a different way but [inaudible], let’s do this so the package shop and other things can remain but let’s close the club. And that was where we are. And I think now we are in a different mode to undo that. While some of the things that may be negative in there, but those things that Liberty wants to do, the amount of property, for instance, that the United House of Prayer owns in that area, the step of going across what has been done on one side of Laney Walker to now get into the second step to build homes, to do the type of rehabilitation, to deal with an expansion of what 30901 has done, it won’t get done if we undo that. And I don’t think that’s a negative towards the petitioner, but this was in the spirit of what the neighborhood and the petitioner worked out. And I think to undo that would be a breach of the trust that the government did at that time to say hey, we’re going to allow this, but we’re not going to allow that. And I just don’t see how you can go back on that in this point and to do that. So I just think that was where we were with it. It was voted on at that time, it was not even a debatable issue, as the people were satisfied on both sides. But I think this one would open up definitely a very serious 51 amount of opposition, not just the ones here today, but you probably would end up, Mr. Mayor, with folk, now realizing the petition has been submitted, but I think if you knew the [inaudible] to get this compromise reached, it’s stayed in place now for several year. I think if this is undone it’s going to cause us a problem to be able to do that. I am hoping that probably you can still be able to sell that and to maybe even be able to work with the neighborhood on maybe a different usage of what the property to [inaudible] for, and I think a good example of that is that we all used to be afraid of the Red Door, and what it brought in, and the Red Door is one of the best health centers that we got now in th [inaudible] Street that’s in walking distance from 12 Street. So I think maybe while this work, there may be something that the neighborhood and the positive forces can sit down with you and be able to develop a plan to do something that’s different with the piece of property, but I think this would be a terrible thing to go back on the compromise that was made with the neighborhood. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Is there any further discussion on the motion? We do have a motion and second on the floor. Mr. Anderson: Am I allowed to make a comment about the comments that were made? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Yes, sir, go ahead. Mr. Anderson: A couple of comments were made that the business has been nothing but detrimental. I take exception to that. I think if the rest of the neighborhood had been as adamant as my father and I both were about reporting drug activity, that would have been cleaned up sooner than it was. I think if you check with the Sheriff’s Department it will show a lot of records where I have helped them get criminals off the street but detaining criminals. I have done my part in that. So to say that business was nothing but detrimental is a personal attack on me and I take offense to that. Mr. Speaker: Did not mean it to be a personal attack. Mr. Anderson: Secondly, and you made a good comment about bottles on the ground [inaudible]. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: You want to address -- not the reverend, please address the Chair. Mr. Anderson: Yes, sir. Sorry. Sorry. My apologies. I agree there was a lot of trash on the street. Some of those were products I do not sell in my liquor store, but I had my people out there cleaning it up, because I think the neighborhood should be clean, too. But that was not all my fault or my business’ fault, that I no longer own. Second, if the presence of alcohol and drinking establishments is such a bad thing, then I would like to see those here that are against mine be also against the other ones in the neighborhood where there are liquor stores and bars in the same building. The fellow that bought my building wants to know why he can’t do that same thing. I’m here fighting for him. I 52 have sold my business. I am only the landlord now. On behalf of the Trust which benefits my mother. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Thank you, sir. Any other discussion on the motion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion, please signify by the sign of voting. Mr. Shepard out. Motion carries 7-0. Mr. Anderson: Thank you for your time. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Next item, Madame Clerk. The Clerk: Go back to number 4. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Number 4. Number 4. The Clerk: 4. Z-02-110 – A request for concurrence with the Augusta-Richmond County Planning Commission to approve with the following conditions 1) that the development be limited to 19 lots with no road connection to the remainder of this tract or to adjoining tracts and 2) that the paper section of Whitney Street be improved by the petitioner to county standards from where the pavement ends to the subject parcel a petition by Murray Williams requesting a change of zone from Zone R-3B (Multiple-family Residential) with restrictions to Zone R-1C (One-family Residential) on the northernmost 5.63 acres of a 16.1 acre tract fronting on Walden Drive and Whitney Street Extended. (Tax map 57-3 parcel 9) DISTRICT 5 Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Is the petitioner present? The petitioner is not present. If he’s not present -- Mr. Patty? Mr. Patty: This is property, this is a portion of the property that we heard back several months ago. At the time it was presented as a 16.1 acre tract and the intent was to build patio homes on the entire tract with access to Whitney Street. We had a lot of objection and the action that you all took was to actually give limited approval of this, with the condition that there be no access to Whitney Street and there was a limit on the number of lots. It was actually an approval. And because it was an approval, they were allowed to come back and file another application without waiting a year. Current request addresses the northernmost 5.1 acres of this property. Petitioner wants to put 19 lots on that portion of the property. The lots would be consistent in size with the lots surrounding it, even though it would be a different zoning classification. The reason for that is the current lots, the lots in the area do not conform to the current zoning classification. The plan that we have shows a road pattern that would not allow that, this development to be extended on into the remainder of this property or into any other property, and the two conditions are (1) that the -- well, that’s one of them, and the other 53 is that the petitioner would have to extend the paper section of Whitney Street to the property at his expense. With those conditions, there were no objectors, and the staff and Commission recommended you approve this. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Is there any discussion? Mr. Williams? Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. I asked this item be pulled to discuss it because this item came before us before, and we denied it because of the access. We wanted to allow access off Walden Drive, and the petitioner did not want to exit off of Walden Drive by any reason or any kind. And I’m concerned now, we talk about 19 lots. That’s not going to touch the majority of the property that’s going to be left in there, right, George? Mr. Patty: That’s correct. Mr. Williams: Okay. And what I’m worried about is if we pass this and there only could be 19 lots in there, and I think you mentioned something about a cul-de-sac where they were going in and only having 19. I can’t see an investor building, buying the property and only building 19. I think what’s going to happen is we are going to open up a door and we going to have to come back and let him do what we said he could not do in the beginning. Mr. Speaker: [inaudible] Mr. Williams: And I probably need George to restate that, those conditions, but I’m just worried that if we approve the 19 then they will come back later on and then do what [inaudible] before. We gave him the right to exit off of Walden Drive that he did not want. He wanted to come off there and go off of Wrightsboro Road and I think the same street, Winter Street, at that time. But if we got those restrictions in place, George, I got no problems with it. But if those restrictions in place that he cannot tie into that piece of property, okay, well I’ve got no problem. Mr. Wall: That would be recorded with the -- if the conditional zoning, and that condition would be recorded in the real estate record. Mr. Williams: Okay, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem or Mr. Mayor, whoever handling the gavel now. I thank you for allowing me to say those few words, but I wanted to make sure that was in there. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Thank you. Mr. Cheek? Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Just a quick question. George, I didn’t see any, in a quick view of the print there, I have some concerns about drainage. And us not passing further drainage problems on to those people downhill. Are the drainage problems in that area, the runoff, are they addressed by the development plan? 54 Mr. Patty: What I’ve got is a preliminary plan. When he does the actual engineering plan, spend some money to do an engineering plan, they will have to address, he will have to retain the storm water to the pre-developed [inaudible] on this site. And not do it on future, you know, remainder of the property or anything like that. It would be addressed on this site. Mr. Cheek: So one of those lots, I guess, addressed on this site, one of those lots is going to have to become a detention pond? Mr. Patty: Somewhere he’s going to have to do it, yes, sir. On this space. On this five acres he would have to retain the water on this space. Mr. Cheek: That didn’t show one per se, did it? Mr. Patty: It did not. Mr. Cheek: And this is a situation of where we’re still dealing with Pinnacle Place, which I believe was developed by the same entity? Mr. Speaker: Yes. Mr. Cheek: To the tune of a half million? Mr. Patty: He didn’t do Pinnacle Place? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: He didn’t do the new part of it? Mr. Patty: I don’t think so. Tracey Teasley did this -- Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: That’s right. Mr. Cheek: I stand corrected then. But still I’m very concerned that, especially this is up above Walden Drive. We had some runoff problems, high sand area. I guess is there any way to way and see if we’ve got the drainage issues addressed before we vote on this, Mr. Mayor? Mr. Patty? Someone? Mr. Patty: Well, you’ve almost got the chicken and the egg. The developer doesn’t want to go out and spend tens of thousands of dollars doing plans until he know whether he can get the zoning, and that’s really what it would take in order to definitively say this is how much water you’ve got to retain and this is how you’re going to do it. [inaudible] you’ve got, you know, your Public Works staff administering and enforcing an ordinance that requires them to retain water onsite so I think you’re covered. Mr. Cheek: I’m hearing that there are still some problems with our development ordinance and the final product when these folks build these lots and are turned over to individual builders that we’re still not holding their feet to the drainage fire, and frankly 55 I’m concerned that we have an egg in drainage that’s probably in the neighborhood of about $90 million of work to do across the city that we haven’t got funded for and I don’t want to add more problems to the city’s already existing drainage problems, and that’s my concern with this. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Thank you, Mr. Cheek. Mr. Mays and then [inaudible]. Mr. Mays: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, two not necessarily problems, just two observations. I realize where that catch-22 puts us sometimes, Mr. Patty, but I know we’ve had questions in different areas on planned development where we have asked of - - and this may be not the stage, it may be a little premature to say it [inaudible] put in -- but we have asked Public Works to deal with some preliminary things. We did it in the area of Rae’s Creek, Crane Creek, when the zoning was asked to be changed because of the amount of water pouring off there. The old city in probably one of the last major construction deals that was done, up in the Wrightsboro Road area, tying in with a federal project that we’ve done there, [inaudible] people in that old Lyndon Grove, that area, have never really gotten over the sewage disasters that they have suffered for a long time in there because of things that were not done. And were not put in, even though that predated a lot of the stuff we are doing now. But you know to start seeing things coming from next door and they float up when you do just a regular toilet flushing, because sewage was not dealt with in the planning like it should have been, and I realize that’s not your job in there, but sometimes when these things get to rolling, they get to rolling too far, then it becomes a tendency where government says we can’t stop it at this stage because it’s done so. I think we have asked in certain times to require at least some preliminary as to what may be needed in an area to do it. The second problem I’ve got, Mr. Mayor, this may be a little bit superstitious, but this one has been before us a couple of times. The only problem I’ve got, George, did the two groups meet somewhere on their own and work this out? Cause the reason I’m asking this, is because when I don’t see a petitioner and I don’t see a large group of folk that had the different worries in there and nobody shows up, it usually means that two weeks or three weeks from now, your office, your phone starts ringing and says how did y’all approve this that I read about and something in here that we didn’t know? And then we look around and we got 75 to 100 home owners up in here and want to know when and how did we settle it. And I mean it may be where it was worked out. But it just -- it’s just that uneasy feeling I get when something goes from [inaudible] unless there was a meeting of some minds [inaudible] showed to some folk, that always bothers me when both sides disappear. And they’ve been vigilant on this thing for a good while. And did they work this thing out in the middle, or what’s the deal on it? Mr. Patty: Well, I’m not going to speak for the petitioner and tell you exactly who he talked to, but I know that he did talk to one main objector who lived on Whitney Street who this paper street would actually [inaudible]. I’m sure this is part is perceived to be in his yard, and that particular party is okay with it. Now I think that Murray told me that he had talked to some other folks as well, but I’m not going to tell you that he did or he didn’t. 56 Mr. Mays: I guess my question would be then I need when we do the zoning changes, all the notices are put out. Folk know when these things are coming up. But if this is an extension of a previous zoning action, and while the main person closest to it may be satisfied in it, it’s been a ton of folk in here regarding this issue on more than one occasion, and what I don’t want to see us do is to deal with passing something and then we start getting situations from folk that have investments for 25, 30, 40 years in a neighborhood and come up and say we did not know you all were fixing to settle this and that this has been done. Now that has been done on more than one occasion with government and then we are in an after the fact situation, and I’m just asking. It may be all satisfied. But I just know that that’s a bad feeling I get when folk disappear that have been vigilant on an issue for a year and then there is nobody around, and then all of a sudden folk pop up and say well, I didn’t see a sign, I didn’t know this was an issue, when did y’all settle this? And that’s the only thing I’m trying to get some clarity on. Mr. Wall: I just want to be sure you understand, and maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. Any settlement of the dispute would have been between Murray Williams and the homeowners. The court ruled in our favor. They did not appeal that ruling, and so then he filed a new application which would have required a new posting of the property, new advertisement and the whole process started over. So this is not anything that is a settlement of the existing litigation. I just wanted to be sure you understood that. Mr. Mays: Well, that makes me even scarier, because here’s the thing. If the residents read where the court decision ruled on the side of the city where we denied, and if they are thinking maybe in some action that it’s all over with and is settled, then are they pleased with what the finality side of it is? That’s the question I’m asking, because too many folk were here out of that area, that had that concern. It may mean that the come and they are totally satisfied. But I just don’t think that we need to be in a situation where we have to have answer to them in an after the fact position, where they pop up on everything from Wrightsboro Road, from Winter Street, Johns Road, all through Highland Park, Lyndon Grove, and we got them packed in here saying nobody said anything to us about it. Now historically, that has happened with government, and I just think to a point that if it’s all clear, if it’s all good, and ain’t nobody here representing either side, then maybe two weeks is not going to kill the issue, and somebody needs to let somebody know up there that this is going to finalized and this is what the plan is. And that will satisfy everybody. It certainly will satisfy me, because I don’t want to get in any more situations where folk come up and say well, we didn’t see y’all or we didn’t hear from y’all. I’ve seen every land fill developed in residential areas, simply because of the fact that nobody showed up. It wasn’t necessarily the right thing to do, but it was done. So I mean I just don’t want this to get added to that list. That’s just an observance. I’m not against. This may be the best plan, and it probably is. But I’m just afraid when I don’t see folk, and they ain’t here, they just all of a sudden disappear, the petitioner doesn’t come, and it’s no reflection on Mr. Patty at all, he’s doing his job. But when that happens, and George knows what I’m talking about. Usually you don’t see stuff like this just go off the radar screen. 57 Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Thank you, Mr. Mays. Mr. Kuhlke and then Mr. Hankerson. Mr. Kuhlke: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, I can’t disagree with Mr. Mays, but on something Mr. Cheek brought up, it bothers me when we come, a zoning issue comes before this Commission and then we sort of pre-empt the Public Works Department from the standpoint of going through the engineering process. If we want to cripple this city, if we start making developers provide engineering plans before we approve any zoning, that’s the quickest way for the economy of this city to go downhill. So I think as we review the zoning, we need to take the zoning for what it is. We need to put the responsibility of making sure that the engineering is done properly through the other departments. But it scares me, and this has happened on a couple of occasions, where we have demanded that the developer spend thousands of dollars, not know whether we are going to come back and approve the zoning or not. So I just wanted to make that comment. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Hankerson, then Mr. Williams, then Mr. Cheek. Mr. Hankerson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. My question, and this is District 5 and we had the new redistricting lines drawn, I’m kind of concerned whether this is Mr. Williams’ District now or District 5. And the reason I asked that, because no one has contacted me about this issue. I don’t know if anyone had contacted Mr. Williams. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Is that a question, Rev. Hankerson? Mr. Hankerson: It’s 5? Mr. Patty: We probably picked that up from the old case. It could very well be. Mr. Hankerson: District 5? Mr. Patty: It could very well be the other District. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Answer your question, Rev. Hankerson? Mr. Hankerson: Yes, thank you. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Williams and then Mr. Cheek. Mr. Williams : Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. It is under the new guidelines, wanted to make a substitute motion [sic] that the new line been drawn in District 2. I we not deny, but delay this for two weeks. Commissioner Mays brought up some very good points. We had a room full of people here who was upset about it. Not that we going deny it, but we need to make sure, I need to make sure as representative of that District that the community has had input or do know what’s going on. I’m in support, I 58 trust Mr. Patty that he’s been on his job and doing a good job for us, and these guidelines been put in place. But if we have not, for any other reason the people thinking that the court have decided one way and then we got a new petition been put up and they are not aware. I don’t think it would hurt anything to delay for two weeks, and then if everything is in order, then we go ahead and vote. If there is no one to come forth and say we’re not in agreement or we had not been told, then we go ahead and pass it. Mr. Boyles: I’ll second that motion. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Okay, we have a motion and second. Mr. Cheek? Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. I wholeheartedly agree with the th Commissioner from the 10 District. I think this is a very serious tightrope that we are walking, in making these developers come forth with plans before they’re approved. My concern, and I want to take a venture off into legal land here for just a moment. If we require expenditure of funds by a developer on a particular project, does that legally encumber us to pass it at some point in the future? Mr. Wall: Very well. I mean one of the tests is to determine whether or not a government is estopped, is whether or not a developer or someone has expended money in reliance of [inaudible] or a promise or representation by the government. Mr. Cheek: We can still, if we hear -- I think if we hear how we are going to address the drainage and get the assurances that we need -- my concern is that again while it is a tightrope that we walk concerning the development of property, we have a long and well established tradition of passing millions of dollars of drainage upgrades and improvements that should have been handled during the development phase on to the taxpayers of this community, and that’s money that could be well spent on roads and recreational facilities and other things. And I’m hearing just ripples that we have made vast improvements in that area with the changes to our development ordinances. We’re not there yet, and I just want to make sure that we address those things on a case-by-case basis, because we’ve got enough to pay for now without creating additional and new problems. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Any other discussion? Seeing none, we do have a motion and a second on the floor. All in favor of the motion delaying for two weeks, signify by the sign of voting. Somebody hit the switch. Mr. Mayor: It’s on. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Somebody didn’t pay the light bill. Mr. Mayor: It’s turned on up here. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: All right. All in favor of the motion, please signify by raising your hand. 59 The Clerk: It’s working. Motion carries 8-0. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: It’s unanimous. Next item, please. Mr. Mayor: All right, let’s go to item 13. If Commissioners need to take a break, I would just ask that you please do that individually as we try to move ahead. We’ve got some people from the general public here who have been waiting patiently. The Clerk: 13. Motion to approve recommendation from the RCSD to suspend the Alcohol Beverage License held by Ki Kwan Kim for Jack’s Grocery located at 4630 Mike Padgett Hwy for thirty-days and that the license be placed on probation for the balance of a year; and that an appropriate Richmond County agent (resident) be placed on the license as required by law. District 8. Super District 10. (Approved by Public Services Committee September 9, 2002) Mr. Cheek: I so move. Mr. Colclough: Second. Mr. Mayor: Motion and second. Rob, you want to -- who has got the background on this one? Sheriff going to talk about this, or the Inspection Department? Mr. Smith: Sheriff’s Department. I’m [inaudible] Smith. Mr. Mayor: All right. Mr. Smith: This recommendation was made based on some activities that occurred on Sunday, July 14, at about 12 o’clock in the afternoon. Essentially what happened was as a response to some complaints, I actually did a surveillance of the location, Jack’s Grocery, on all Savannah Road. Had received information that there were Sunday alcohol sales taking place there. Was told that it was so blatant that you could actually sit in the parking lot and watch them take place. As a result of that, I sat not in the parking lot but on the side of the road in front of the store, and within about 15 minutes of arriving, sure enough, someone had gone into the store and purchased a 12- pack of Budweiser. We had the vehicle stopped. The Budweiser was actually in a bag. The bag was consistent with the size and shape of a 12-pack. Searched the car. That was the only bag and the only container in the car. I had the vehicle in my sight the entire time until it was stopped, and in fact the man on the passenger side had the beer between his legs on the floor board with a cold Budweiser, 12 ounce can open in his hand drinking it. He advised me that he had purchased it at Jack’s Grocery, which is at 4630 Mike Padgett Highway. During the subsequent investigation, we also learned that Mr. Kim is a 60 resident of Columbia County and he also has two additional alcohol licenses. He did not at the time have an agent in Richmond County as required by county ordinance. So we requested the suspension of one license for 30 days, which would be for Jack’s Grocery. The balance of a year, we’d like that location to be put on probation. And his two other license locations we’d like to be put on probation. My understanding, from speaking with Mr. Harris at the Licensing Department, is that they are now in the process of getting that Richmond County agent, the paperwork is in the process of being processed at this point. Our reasoning for the recommendation is -- there’s a couple of reasons. First of all, we don’t even think what we’re asking for is all that much, given the fact that we had the Sunday sales. I did fail to mention his wife attempted to give me $1400 not to arrest Mr. Kim for the Sunday sales. So we have all these deliberate acts that are occurring. The Sunday sales was not a mistake made by a clerk, such as in an underage case. This was a deliberate act, to the point where I had received several phone calls about the Sunday sales taking place, that it was blatant. And obviously it was because I parked in front of the store on the side of the road and observed it take place. The attempted bribery, of course, was another blatant, obvious act that occurred. That was not an honest mistake. That was an intentional violation of the law. What we’re trying to do here is not create a position where Mr. Kim is going to be out of business. We do want to put him in a position so that he understands that this type of thing will not be tolerated in Richmond County and that the ordinances are in place for everybody. We also think that these recommendations should be approved because in reality when we have people that operate this, it kind of flies in the face of the hundreds of alcohol licenses we have in this county that we have no problems out of. And those people abide by the ordinances every day and strive to do so. And I think when we have -- it’s very -- it’s not very often that we have this type of incident take place, but when it does I think we need to send that message to both the person that is committing the act that this is something that we can’t have, but I also want the people who strive every day to operate their licenses by the law to understand that we are out there working and supporting them in their efforts as well. And that’s basically it. Mr. Mayor: Sergeant, could you explain with respect to the attempt to bribe you, has that been referred to the Grand Jury or what? Mr. Smith: That case has been indicted and awaiting trial. Mr. Mayor: It is? Okay. Are you representing the license holder? Mr. Ingram: Yes, sir. Richard Ingram. I’m here on behalf of John Fleming who has leave of court this month just to apply to this jurisdiction. May it please the Mayor and members of the county Commission. I pinched-hit last week on September 9 at the subcommittee meeting and Sgt. Smith and I spoke. His recommendation of 30 days suspension and the balance of the year on probation, I can’t say on my personal notes it’s not a bad thing. I think it’s a very honorable recommendation. However, on behalf of Mr. Kim, we spoke further that afternoon, and he merely wanted to be heard. Now he brought an individual from the community with him, Madison Woo, who I believe we all know. I went to high school with his daughter. But he at least wanted to speak on behalf 61 of this gentleman and let the Commission know that we know we’re here based on a license. It’s not a right to have a liquor license. It’s a license. It’s a privilege to have that license. He doesn’t want to lose that privilege. He just described to me after the subcommittee meeting how much of an economic impact it would have on three locations. I’d ask the members of this Commission to just at least hear from him for just a few moments and possibly from Mr. Woo, if you would so entertain that. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Kim? Mr. Ingram: Mr. Kim, address the Commission. Let them know not just about your business, [inaudible] business itself. Mr. Mayor: Speak into the microphone so we can hear you. Thank you. Mr. Kim: My name is [inaudible] Kim [inaudible] 15 years. And I have no [inaudible] beer license except the one and one of the employees sell underage beer and that’s the only problem has been in 15 years. And that’s [inaudible] July 14 and then I have to go [inaudible]. And so I have to go to the Sunday and not ever [inaudible] and that’s the first time I [inaudible] store [inaudible], my son went outside to the mailbox and I saw him and parked on the side of the mailbox. And I [inaudible] paperwork and [inaudible] comes in about ten minutes later and they say let’s go the jail, you’re selling beer on a Sunday, which I am inside my office, doing paperwork for the weekend [inaudible] and I ain’t got no clue what’s going on and then he asks me again [inaudible] did you just sell beer on Sunday? And I told him no, I didn’t sell any beer. And so then he told the deputy and they handcuff him and put him in the back of the car, which is my son [inaudible] years old and my wife was out there on the outside and watching what’s going on and then later on my son said you [inaudible] and he said something about a bribery and my wife out there begging him what’s going on and then tried to help, don’t take my husband to the jail, and then he crying and doing all this and then the begging him [inaudible] and then she memorized something from then TV and then he say [inaudible] cash bond to pay to don’t go to jail. So what she done it and then give him the cash bond and then he understand [inaudible] talk to my wife and then hardly speak English and [inaudible] she don’t even know what’s going on. And we never had any kind of law violated in this country and then you know I never [inaudible] my life. And then [inaudible] he say he saw beer coming out of my store, and I don’t know how he going to see it and then he say it’s in the bag and how he can tell that’s the beer or not. And then [inaudible] not working at the counter. I got some employees working, two of the employees working at that moment and how I then try to [inaudible] try to manage it as much as I can [inaudible] take me to the jail for I didn’t done it. And it’s kind of, I don’t know, [inaudible] honest man and [inaudible]. I didn’t done anything on it. Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Mr. Woo? Welcome back to the Commission Chambers. Mr. Woo: Thank you, sir. 62 Mr. Mayor: Give us your name and address for the record, please, Madison. Mr. Woo: I’m Madison Woo. Live in Martinez. I’ve known this gentleman for about 15 years. He’s an honest gentleman and I didn’t -- I was not there when this alleged sale of beer took place and so forth. But the only thing I can say is I believe he’s an honest man and I don’t believe he would sell beer on Sunday. Mr. Mayor: All right. Any questions? Mr. Boyles? Mr. Boyles: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. For many years, I used to ride to McBean to the recreation area and I would sometimes stop in this store, Jack’s Grocery, and get a Coca-Cola and pack of crackers sometimes, maybe shouldn’t have but I was passing some time away. But I got to know Mr. Kim. I know who he was. He probably didn’t remember me, but I remember him just by going in there. How many complaints had you had, Sgt. Smith? Mr. Smith: I’d received two complaints from two different people. Mr. Boyles: Two different people? Could you, just out of my curiosity, describe the so-called bribery attempt if we can, if it’s indictable? The attorney may say we can’t do that. Mr. Ingram: Mr. Boyles, Mr. Wall, I want to say for the record, Mr. Fleming th represent his wife, but I don’t mind her coming up her and waiving the 5. I think you’ll see in about two or three minutes that she hardly speaks any English. You might see the fact that she may have misunderstood. I know Sgt. Smith will take exception to that. He and I have had a lot of cases together. But [inaudible]. Mr. Mayor: Let’s hear from Sgt. Smith and then we’ll give her an opportunity. Mr. Smith: About the bribery? Mr. Boyles: The bribery attempt. Mr. Smith: What occurred is when I took Mr. Kim outside and placed him in a patrol car, his wife kept -- she walked out behind me. She kept repeating are you sure you can’t help me, are you sure you can’t help me? Once we got Mr. Kim handcuffed and in the car, she asked me if I would step back into her office. I walked back into the office with her, she opened the door. Her son was in the office. He looked to be approximately four years old. She asked the son to step out of the office. She shut the door and walked around behind the desk. The desk, if you walk in the door you’re facing the desk. So she had to walk around the desk, she opened up the top right hand drawer, reached in, grabbed some cash. Evidently there was just a box there with money in it. She grabbed it, didn’t count it, had no idea how much was in it, held her arm out in front of her, and said are you sure you can’t help me just this one time? And I kind of looked 63 at her cause it actually kind of caught me off guard a little bit, and I said are you telling me I can have that money? And then she looked at me kind of funny again and the put it back in the desk drawer on the left hand side and at that time I arrested her. Mr. Boyles: Arrested for bribery? Mr. Smith: For bribery. There was never any mention of a bond. We don’t even take cash bonds, never have taken cash bonds in Richmond County. I don’t think there was any confusion at all in language barriers or anything else. I think she knew exactly what she was doing. Mr. Boyles: I wouldn’t know about cash bonds, because thank goodness I’ve never been involved in that. Mr. Smith: We don’t have cash bonds in Richmond County. Mr. Boyles: I wouldn’t know. Mr. Mayor: Mrs. Kim, is that consistent with your recollection of that incident? Mrs. Kim: [inaudible] come inside, okay. My husband was here [inaudible] police car [inaudible] almost 15 or 20 minutes. [inaudible] What can I do? What can I do? [inaudible] cash bond okay? They tell me nothing. [inaudible] I give you money. My husband beg. [inaudible] police car [inaudible] cash bond. Mr. Boyles: Do you understand the difference between cash bond and bribery? Mrs. Kim: I don’t know. [inaudible] first time. [inaudible] cash bond, I pay cash bond. Mr. Mayor: You paid a cash bond for something else before so you’d have some knowledge about paying a cash bond? Have you been in trouble before? Mrs. Kim: No. Mr. Speaker: Have you ever bonded anybody out of jail before? Mrs. Kim: No. [inaudible] husband. My husband. [inaudible] brother [inaudible]. Mr. Mayor: If she didn’t have any experience with paying a cash bond, I am just wondering how in the world she would assume somebody would take a cash bond, if she didn’t have any knowledge of cash bonds. Any other questions or comments? I would just observe from the Chair that these are some pretty serious allegations. Selling alcohol on Sundays when you’re not licensed to do that. That’s serious. But even more trouble to me is the fact that there would be an attempt to pay off an officer, particularly with the 64 situation we’ve had in the Vice Squad in the Sheriff’s Department in the last year. And it’s refreshing to see that that type of conduct will not be tolerated any more. It’s my understanding that the recommendation is for a 30 days suspension; is that correct? Mr. Smith: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor: 30 days suspension of the license. Mr. Smith: For one location. Mr. Mayor: For one location; right. Now that would not put the store out of business? You still have other items you could sell and commerce to engage in. It would also give you 30 days to work with your employees in there and make sure that they understand what the laws are in this state, knowing full well that if somebody else wants to engage on your behalf in the sale of alcoholic beverages on Sunday or any other violation of the ordinance that you would lose your license permanently. But these are indeed some serious allegations, and the Chair would certainly recommend the Commission go along with the recommendation on this one. Mr. Colclough? Mr. Colclough: I’m going to address the lawyer. What happened, what’s the difference between the committee meetings that you was at last week and today? Last week in the committee meetings you were all -- Mr. Kim was all fine with the recommendations and today you’re not. What happened between the two times? Mr. Ingram: The difference is on September 9 I appeared here on behalf of John Fleming on a moment’s notice. He had leave of court. After reviewing the file and handling the cases I usually handle, I’m going to say for the record, this is a pretty generous result. And in speaking with him, I was under the understanding that it was okay with him, but I did not realize that it would have the economic impact that he described to me thereafter. And I told him, in fact I called the County Attorney and just let him know that this is no lapse of memory, it’s just simply that he wanted to address the Commission in a respectful manner and just let the Commission know that albeit he did through me agree to that, he just simply wanted to ask one more time, which I know is unorthodox, if the Commission might consider straight probation instead. We’re not trying to do anything improper here. Mr. Colclough: Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Williams? Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I’d like to ask Officer Smith a couple of questions. First of all, I think you stated that you stopped a car. And I’m trying to find out -- I heard your statement -- trying to find out whether you were sure and very sure that this container or this beer came from this establishment in this same car. Now will you tell me that again, what took place? 65 Mr. Smith: Yes, sir. From where I was sitting at, I observed the car pull into the parking lot and park. A white male got out of a white Mustang. He was on the passenger side. Approximately 50 years old. 50, 55. He walks into the store. He’s inside I’d say five to six minutes, turns around, he walks back out and he is carrying a brown paper bag approximately about the size of your normal old-fashioned paper grocery bag. It’s obviously got something large in it. It’s consistent with the size of a 12-pack. He gets into the car, again on the passenger side, pulls out onto Highway 56. I pull out behind them. I call for a marked unit to come pull them over. I’m behind them the entire time. Get them out. He’s got a 12-pack of Budweiser between his legs. He has -- on the floorboard between his legs -- he is holding a 12-ounce, freshly-opened Budweiser in his hand that came out of the 12-pack. Got them out the car. The first thing is the gentleman told me he had just purchased it as Jack’s Grocery, which I already knew because I was watching, and using his words, not mine, he said I got them from the Chinaman. Then what I did was I got them out of the car and I searched the car to ensure that there was no other packages inside that car that same size and consistency, to ensure in fact that the 12-pack could not have been confused with something else. There was nothing else in that car. There was not other beer in the car. There were no boxes, there were no bags, anything consistent with the same size of the bag that came out of the store. I had them in full view the entire time, so there is no way they could have gotten rid of anything, or they didn’t stop so there way for anything to have been put into the car after the fact. Mr. Kim was cited as the license holder. I can only tell you what the gentleman who bought the beer said. I cannot prove Mr. Kim sold the beer. I can prove that it was sold from his establishment, and as the license holder he was cited. Mr. Williams: My other question is on the attempt to pay. How do we come to the conclusion that there was an attempt to pay you? I mean if someone going do that, something got to be said. Now, Jim [inaudible]. Mr. Wall: I want to be sure the Commission understands is the recommendation is based upon Sunday sales. Mr. Williams: Okay. Mr. Wall: The issue about whether or not a bribery occurred is a separate offense. Mr. Williams: Okay. Mr. Wall: And that’s not the basis for any action on the license. Mr. Williams: Okay. Mr. Mayor: But the Commission may take that action into consideration in reaching its decision in judging the veracity of the license holder. Mr. Wall: Well, insofar as showing a purposeful intent to sell on Sunday, that is the reason it came in, to that extent. 66 Mr. Williams: I’m sorry, Mr. Mayor, but I mean how do we determine what was said to -- because here we talking about being fair, we talking about the law, we talking about doing what’s right, and you got a tough job, with all the stuff that comes up. But not being there, I need to hear from you as a official officer there and what took place. Now you said, and I remember that, the money was put back in the drawer. Mr. Smith: In a separate -- she laid it down. When she realized I was not going to take the money, she laid it down. She never counted it. She just got a handful. I actually counted it after the fact. I picked it up as soon as she laid it down, took her outside, placed her in a patrol car, and then counted the money in the presence of the two uniformed deputies that were there. Mr. Williams: Was anything said though? I mean if I put some money down and I can -- I mean, you know, you going to have all the scenarios. I’m just trying to find out what was said when you arrested her because you had the intent of her asking you to take the money in lieu of what’s going on. So what was said? Mr. Smith: Okay. When we were in the parking lot, in the process of placing her husband in the car, she asked me three to four times are you sure you can’t help me? And I kept trying to tell her no, I can’t. I was trying to deal with the husband and try to keep her at arm’s length. Once we had him secured in the car, then she asked me to step into her office. We get into her office, she reaches in the drawer, pulls out a handful of money that she has not counted, just pulls it out, she holds it in front of her, extends her arm and says are you sure you can’t help me today? No, I’m sorry, are you sure you can’t help me just this one time? I took that as an offer to pay me to not take action. Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor, I’m through. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Mr. Shepard? Mr. Shepard: Mr. Mayor, I ask Madame Clerk, is there a motion on the floor? And the motion is -- The Clerk: To approve. Mr. Shepard: To approve the recommendation of the Sheriff’s Department? I call the question, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor: The question has been called. The Chair rules there has been adequate discussion. Mr. Mays, you have a procedural question? Mr. Mays: I don’t know whether it would be procedural. Mr. Mayor: Say it is and go ahead and ask it anyway. 67 Mr. Mays: Okay. Just procedural to help me clear. I will say this. I think Sgt. Smith is trying to do a very good job in terms of trying to police this area and to get it done. And I’m going to support the motion that’s on the floor. But what does leave me a little bit hanging, and it’s just a suggestion, and I think I can qualify my support by saying I’m going to vote for the motion. But I mean would it not be better, and maybe I guess from our old place of business, being old police [inaudible] station when police didn’t have walkie-talkies and other [inaudible] equipment, out walking the beat, they used our [inaudible] to call into headquarters with. In the vein of old police, would it not be better on some of these cases like this to actually have our undercover people bust these folk in terms of going it and buying when there is a sale on Sunday or there is an undercover sale? Cause I’m going to tell you what bothers me a little bit, and I’m going to vote for it and I’m going to support it, because we’re supposed to stand behind our law enforcement folk. But when -- and I’m doing this because the element of trust and your credibility and your department’s credibility, but I think when you come before us and you say I can’t prove that somebody bought something, then I think it ought to be bought either with our marked money, our folk who are undercover, and not from just the general public customer who comes in there. And that’s just my personal observation. I’m going to vote for it because of the support of law enforcement, but I think if you start getting into court with a lot of these cases where it’s by our contact observance, there is not film, and it’s not bought by undercover folk, then we can start getting into real trouble about what we’ve got. And that’s just a suggestion. And I’m going to vote for the motion. I had to say that principal because to a point [inaudible] situation where [inaudible] I respect his credibility, but I think when you start saying that, you know, this is done this way, it just gives a stronger case when you send in John Doe undercover to make drug buys and to make underage sales and to make Sunday sales where there is no right to sell Sunday merchandise, it ought to be done by our undercover folk. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Mr. Boyles, you had a procedural question, too? Mr. Boyles: I guess it was, if you let me Mr. Mays do that, too. I was just kind of curious, if I could ask Mr. Kim, about how much -- how much in sales do you take in in a month’s time? Mr. Kim: [inaudible] gas and groceries, gas and cigarette and beer. If I stop selling one month of beer and then it’s going to be really hard for the [inaudible] month and then I going to lose a lot of customer and going down the road and then that’s where I’m going to be hurt. And trust me, if I sell the beer to that gentleman and he say I will [inaudible] but I didn’t sell the beer to that gentleman and I went to the jail with that gentleman in the car and I asked him and do I sell the beer to you and where you get the beer from? And he say no I didn’t get it from you and then I don’t know. Mr. Mayor: The question has been called on the motion. The motion is to approve the recommendation of the Sheriff’s Department. All in favor of that motion, please vote aye. All in favor of the motion, please raise your hand. Raise your hand if you’re in favor of the motion, please. The motion is to follow the recommendation of the Sheriff’s Department. All right. All opposed, please raise your hand. All who abstain or 68 otherwise not vote, vote present, whatever, please raise your hand. Have everybody accounted for? Mr. Boyles and Mr. Hankerson vote No. Motion carries 6-2. Mr. Mayor: The Chair has three engagements that he has to attend to tonight, so I’m going to turn the proceedings over to the Mayor Pro Tem who will continue this meeting until what, nine o’clock tonight, Mr. Colclough? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Madame Clerk? The Clerk: 15. Motion to approve the recommendation of the Richmond County Sheriff’s Department for the revocation of the Occupational License held by Thomas Ryan used in connection with Our Place Spa located at 3319 Washington Road for the following violations: Keeping a House of Prostitution District 7. Super District 10. (Approved by Public Services Committee September 9, 2002) Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Who pulled this item? Mr. Wall: I did. We had a request from the attorney [inaudible]. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Okay. You’re his attorney? Mr. Boone: Yes, sir. My name is Jack Boone. I practice law here in this circuit. I was -- Mr. Ryan came to [inaudible], he came by himself. He was unrepresented by counsel. I think he came in a spirit, quite frankly, of -- I’m passing some things around that I hope the Commission will take a look at. This man is a licensed massage therapist. He is well trained. He’s been in a legitimate massage therapy business over 15 to 20 years. We understand from a little bit of background investigation that I’ve done that there is an allegation that one of the girls in the establishment offered masturbation for hire, is what I understand, with some undercover informant or something. Mr. Ryan is from South Carolina. You’ll see that he’s licensed, well educated. He’s done a good job and would like to see if the Commission could come up with some other resolution other than just putting this man out of business. As the documents work their way down the Commission table, we’re not talking about some fly-by-night, come-in-and-get-a- massage, but a well-trained Oriental massage therapist that is a teacher who teaches there. And we would submit, and I don’t want to give anything away, but even if we were to assume the allegations that we heard are true concerning the individual that was working in this spa, there was certainly no knowledge on behalf of Mr. King [sic] part or quite frankly, the manager at the business at the time, and we would certainly feel like some other resolution could be reached rather than putting the man out of business. He wants nothing to do with anything but a legitimate massage therapy situation, as well as to be able to teach those skills to other people. I know that he was unable to get in touch with 69 me and he came down and met with the subcommittee, quite frankly, not believing that something like this could happen to him, and that’s why we are back here in front of you. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Kuhlke? Mr. Kuhlke: Your client, the way I understand it, he’s basically the landlord of this particular location? Mr. Boone: Yes, sir, he is. And the license holder. And he teaches. Mr. Kuhlke: Right. So it’s kind of unfortunate, but when situations like this happen, the person that gets penalize for this is the person that’s the license holder. And he’s getting penalized two ways. Number 1, he’s the license holder. Number 2, he’s the landlord. And that puts him in a bad situation. But these kind of situations, as well as the other two that are coming up, are actions that obviously we can’t put up with in this community, and I think if you are a legitimate person you would agree with that. And so it’s -- I feel like as a Commissioner and a trustee of what happens in this community in certain locations, certain businesses, that I wouldn’t have any option other than up what the Sheriff’s Department has recommended. Mr. Boone: May I respond or is that not allowed? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Go ahead. Mr. Boone: We would simply ask -- Mr. King [sic] will make it very plain to anybody that is in that business working under his license that he won’t put up with it. We’re simply asking to give him a probationary period to do that. It’s my understanding that this is the fist time any type of situation like this, anybody’s been arrested out there. He’s been made aware of it and certainly if, without saying that it actually happened, that if it happened he wants no part of it and in a probationary period he’ll weed it out and we talked about some ways of handling it, and he’d like to get an opportunity to implement those in that situation. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Cheek and then Mr. Shepard. Mr. Cheek: A question. In this type of situation, is there any precedent for any type of probational action to be taken? Mr. Speaker: No. [inaudible] Mr. Cheek: No, sir, just a legal question for Mr. Wall. Mr. Wall: I think every time we’ve had this, the penalty has been revocation of the license. 70 Mr. Cheek: Was it basically the revocation of the license, was it usually for the person that was performing the act? Are the involved directly or -- Mr. Wall: In fairness, I can’t answer that question. I don’t recall the specifics of who may have been the license holder or who may have been involved in the events. But we have always held the license holder responsible for the location. And I would comment that in response to comments Mr. Kuhlke made, that this was a partnership. He’s listed as a partner. So it’s more than just a landlord situation in my opinion. Mr. Cheek: I don’t ever recall seeing any other situation when we had someone this well credentialed come in with this type of problem, either. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Shepard? Mr. Shepard: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Jim Wall, is there an adequate factual basis in the record from the committee, or do we have to hear it again? Mr. Wall: From the committee, but I would ask that you either make those findings part of this or allow the investigator to put in the record here. You might want to do it here. Mr. Shepard: I would think due process would require we have a hearing, would it not? I mean some evidence before this -- Mr. Wall: Yes. Mr. Shepard: I think we need to hear from him, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: From the Sheriff? Mr. Shepard: Yes. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Yes, sir. Mr. Smith: Yes, this occurred August 22 at 7:40 p.m. Myself, Investigator Elam and several members of the crime suppression team maintained surveillance of the Our Place 2 Spa at 3319 Washington Road. We sent an undercover deputy in. We do have an audio tape of the conversation that took place. In the course of what occurred, the undercover went it, he paid his money at the door. When you go into the door, the door actually is a glass door that leads up two flights of stairs to the second floor. The door of the spa, which is a iron [inaudible] door that is kept locked. You have to know. They have to actually unlock the door to allow you admittance into the spa itself. So you can’t just walk in. Our undercover went in. He was taken to a room where he was told to disrobe. In fact, he paid his money. After he was being massaged by a nude massage therapist, which she had disrobed as well, the manager of the location, according to the undercover officer, also had walked in on the massage while the massage therapist is 71 giving the nude massage, and then just kind of looked, turned around and walked back out. So she was fully aware of what was occurring. As the massage continued, the massage therapist this solicited masturbation for additional monies. At that point obviously we had surveillance set up outside, we went in, went through the glass door, which is unlocked, up the two flights of stairs. We went to the wrought iron door which was locked. Myself and Inv. Elam were standing there. The woman came to the door and asked if we wanted a massage. Actually asked me. She couldn’t see Inv. Elam. And I said yes, I’d like to have a massage. Now he’s standing about three steps down from me next to the wall. As she leans forward to unlock the door, she sees Inv. Elam standing there and then she says well, no, we’re busy, you have to come back later. And at that point we identified ourself and she let us in and then the arrest was made. The young lady, one young lady was charged with masturbation for hire and the manager of the location, who actually takes the money, was charged with keeping a place of prostitution. We did have -- you referred to Mr. King, but I’m thinking his name was Mr. Ryan. Mr. Boone: I’m sorry. You’re right. You’re correct. Mr. Smith: I spoke with Mr. Ryan on several occasions by telephone. The first conversation we had, he advised that he had sold that business some time previously. When he was asked to provide documentation of that same, he said well, I never really did that. The second conversation we had, he said well, on paper it looks like I own the business but in fact I really don’t. I don’t know if he does or not. All we do know for a fact is he is the license holder at that location and we know what occurred. Mr. Shepard: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Any other questions? Mr. Boone: Can any of these surveillance tapes or alleged video tapes be made available to anyone? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Go ahead. What’s your question? Mr. Boone: Any of these alleged surveillance tapes or videos made available to the subcommittee or this committee or this Commission? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: I haven’t seen any. Mr. Boone: Has anybody got the name of this informant, undercover informant? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: No, sir. Mr. Boone: And so if I understand the information and the evidence provided to the Commission and subcommittee is based on hearsay testimony, which there have been no live witnesses corroborating. 72 Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: By the Sheriff’s Department. Mr. Wall: Under our procedures, administrative procedures, that’s allowed. Mr. Boone: Yes, sir. Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, did not Inv. Smith say he was present? Is not your testimony live, living testimony? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: [inaudible] witnesses. Mr. Smith: Yes, sir, we were outside the location. We were monitoring what was taking place inside. Obviously we would have to know when to do that to know when to go in. And this was done by an undercover police officer who would be more than happy to come testify. So that’s not an issue. It was not an informant, it was an undercover deputy. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Any further, any other discussions? Do we have a motion, Madame Clerk? Mr. Kuhlke: I move we uphold the Sheriff’s Department recommendation. Mr. Williams: Second, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: We have a motion and a second on the floor. Any further discussion? Mr. Mays: Yes, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Mays? Mr. Mays: Just for the record on the License & Inspection side. The question was asked [inaudible] may have missed it. I was conversing [inaudible] for a second. All of these, I understand, Jim, have been revocations on the first counts on these types of businesses? Mr. Smith: I believe we set a precedent in revoking the business license, the first or one of the two was the Osaka Spa up on Washington Road. The other was the same location that you’ll be hearing later on Deans Bridge Road. Same address but a different business at that time. Revocation of the license. Did revoke the license first offense, Osaka Spa on Washington Road and another spa on Deans Bridge Road. Mr. Mays: I guess what I was just trying to find out was whether we had an even pattern of what has been done in terms of where you, action that was done in that. None with probations or suspension? They have been all revocations from the very first one? 73 Mr. Wall: For as long as I have been representing you, every one has been a revocation. Mr. Mays: And that’s not to say we shouldn’t consider each case individually, but I just wanted to make sure that I was trying to remember whether or not we had done this in a different manner on some occasions. That’s why I asked the question. Mr. Boone: Excuse me, I just wonder where we would pick up the documents that we brought. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Let me take care of this vote and then we’ll talk. Any further discussion on this motion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion please signify by the sign of voting. Motion carries 8-0. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Next item, Madame Clerk. The Clerk: 17. Motion to approve the recommendation from the Richmond County Sheriff’s Department for the revocation of the Occupational License held by Sun McZorn used in connection with Peach Health Spa located at 2601 Deans Bridge Road for the following violations: Keeping a House of Prostitution District 5. Super District 9. (Approved by Public Services Committee September 9, 2002) Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Smith? nd Mr. Smith: This also occurred on the 22 of August. This was about 9 p.m. This particular instance, we again set up surveillance, sending an undercover officer into the Peach Spa at 2601 Deans Bridge Road. Again, the undercover officer was told to disrobe. The massage therapist entered the room, took her clothes off, and offered to have intercourse for additional money. He had paid $60 for the massage and she had told him for an additional $60 that she would have sexual intercourse with him. At that point, we came into the building. Inv. Elam and myself went through the back door because it was already open and the front door, you have to knock, they have video cameras, they won’t let you in until they know who you are and what-have-you. So Inv. Elam and myself went through the back door which was open, identified ourself, they let us in, and we found two women there, Ms. [inaudible] Smith and Ms. Sun McZorn. Inv. Elam stayed with them. I then made my way through the spa trying to locate the room that our undercover officer was in. As I was moving down the hallway, Ms. Smith followed me down the hallway and was yelling in Korean down the hallway warning the massage therapist who was then yelling at our undercover to get up, hurry, hurry, hurry. We were able to locate him. We arrested the young lady for prostitution, and that was Ms. Kim [inaudible]. Ms McZorn and Ms. Smith, one purporting to be the business owner, the 74 other purporting to be the manager, were both arrested and charged with keeping a place of prostitution. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Yes, sir, would you give us your name and address for the record, please? Mr. Ingram: Richard Ingram, counsel for the licensee in this particular matter. This is Ms. Sun McZorn, the license holder. We [inaudible] earlier, but I think he went from 16 to 17 in the conversation. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Would you pull the mike up, please, so we can hear you. Mr. Ingram: Yes, sir. Can you hear me okay now? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Yes, we got you. Mr. Ingram: It’s Richard Ingram, for the record, I’m here on behalf of John Fleming of our law firm to represent Sun McZorn, who is present here with me. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Okay. Mr. Ingram: She’s the license holder. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Okay. What is your defense? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: We wanted to say this for the record. Ms. McZorn does not speak English very well, but I’d like to articulate this for the record. I’ve talked to Sgt. Smith about this matter and I’ve heard the facts. What she wants this Commission to know is that the owner, Ms. Smith, who has already left, who was present earlier, had allowed a friend of her sister to take employment in the place of business, and she is the defendant that he referred to that was arrested for masturbation for hire. And Ms. McZorn had just arrived at the location and was in the kitchen with the owner, Ms. Smith, and they were watching television when the take-down occurred. She just wants to say for the record she was not aware of this activity herself, and that’s the main point that she wants to say. We know that it’s a futile attempt to make that point, but it’s the truth, and that’s what she has asked me to say on her behalf. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Kuhlke? Mr. Kuhlke: Greg, all three of these happened on the same night, right? Mr. Smith: Yes, sir. Mr. Kuhlke: Do you use the same undercover person? Mr. Smith: We did. 75 Mr. Kuhlke: He’s got to be getting tired. (Laughter) Mr. Smith: We did this particular night. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Shepard? Mr. Shepard: I move we sustain the action of the Sheriff’s Department in the committee. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Motion and second on the floor. Any discussion? Seeing none, all in favor of the motion, please signify by the sign of voting. Motion carries 8-0. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Next item, please. The Clerk: 16. Motion to approve the recommendation from the Richmond County Sheriff’s Department for the revocation of the Occupational License held by Richard Eldridge used in connection with Sun Spa located at 2815 Wylds Road for the following violations: Keeping a House of Prostitution. District 3. Super District 10. (Approved by Public Services Committee September 9, 2002) Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Sheriff, you’re on again. nd Mr. Smith: This also occurred on the 22 of August at 11:45 p.m. We went to the Sun Spa on Wylds Road, which is next to Planet Extreme, behind Augusta Mall. And this particular case, we had an informant come forward to us and advise me that if an undercover entered this location with him, that there would be no questions asked. They would pay $150 at the door and would be offered sexual intercourse in exchange for the $150. We did just that. We had the informant and an undercover go in. They both paid $150 at the door. They were placed in a waiting area, and in fact they were so busy that night they actually sat and waited that night for approximately 20 minutes before they were ever taken to a room and then probably had to wait another 15 or 20 minutes before one of the girls came in to each of the rooms. The scenario is the same. They were asked to disrobe. The girls came in, got undressed, and then actually said okay, you paid your money, and actually tried to have intercourse with the undercover. We were able, of course, because we were monitoring outside, were able to get inside and prevent that from happening and the two young ladies that were involved were both charged with prostitution. They were both trying to do the same thing, just one with an undercover, 76 one with the informant. The two young ladies, Ms. [inaudible] was charged with prostitution, and also Ms. [inaudible] was charged with prostitution. The manager of the location, a Ms. Betty Eldridge, was charged with keeping a place of prostitution. And this was the one that had my picture next to the monitor for the video cameras, so that when you knock on the door they check the camera to see who is at the door before they’ll let you in, and so they had my picture out of the newspaper up there to ensure that I did not get in to the location. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Is there anyone here from this spa? Mr. Kuhlke: I move we approve the recommendation of the Sheriff’s Department. Mr. Shepard: Second. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Motion and second on the floor. Any discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion, please signify by the sign of voting. Motion carries 8-0. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Next item, please. The Clerk: 26. Motion to authorize staff to proceed with the refunding of Series 1989 and Series 1990 Downtown Development Authority Parking Bonds. (Approved by Finance Committee September 9, 2002) Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Williams? Mr. Williams: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, I just needed to get some clarification. It says to authorize the staff to proceed. I’m lost when I get to that point. Proceed? What are we actually doing here? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Kolb, can you help him out? Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, members of the Commission, this item authorizes the staff to negotiate with the highest bidder/lowest cost banking institution to refinance our Downtown Development bonds, which are on the parking deck. We are currently paying somewhere around 7-8% interest and we can get a better interest rate and save hopefully in net of around $250,000 to $300,000. Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Kolb. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Cheek and then Mr. Shepard. 77 Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. George, I have heard urban legends about there being bonds and things we didn’t refinance for whatever reason. Are we looking across the board to seek opportunities to refinance at lower rates? Mr. Kolb: Yes, we are. We have looked at all of our bond issues. Currently we have set up thresholds and if there is not a savings of about $300,000 or an equivalent percentage or higher, then we will not refinance. It does not make any sense. In this particular case, we’re very close to the $300,000, as long as our costs don’t eat that up. Mr. Cheek: Does that include agencies that we act as a pass-through, dealing with Housing & Neighborhood Development or anybody else that has bonds that we deal with? I guess what I’m referencing are some things, old city practices, for instance. So we are looking across the board to make sure we’re getting the lowest rate possible from everybody that anything to do with the city? Mr. Kolb: Okay, I need to clarify that. I’m talking about debt issues that we have. Now loans that we have made to individuals from Housing & Neighborhood Development are already low interest loans, so we probably are not looking to refinance those. Mr. Cheek: No, I mean any bonding things. I know we can’t refinance loans and stuff. Mr. Kolb: And I’m only aware of three or -- Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Wall? Mr. Wall: Well, I think you need to understand that the Downtown Development Authority is a separate legal entity. I mean when we say proceed with the refunding, I mean in essence we’ve got to ask the Downtown Development Authority to do it, and obviously the incentive is for them to follow our request. Because I mean it is a contract with the city that is the revenue stream that pays off the bonds. And I’ve talked with their attorney. But this is something the Development Authority, with the assistance of the city staff, will actually do the refunding. It’s not a city bond. The other city -- the Coliseum Authority, I mean that is a contract between the Coliseum Authority and the old city and county. And it’s that revenue stream that funds those Coliseum Authority bond payments. But again, it’s the Coliseum Authority decision about when and how to refinance, etc. Mr. Cheek: Now, again, this could be an urban legend, and there’s a couple of things here. One, the Coliseum Authority, it’s my understanding that legally the language in the initial contract is that can’t be paid off early or refinanced or whatever; is that accurate? Mr. Wall: I frankly don’t know. It was -- 78 Mr. Cheek: I cut you off before you finished. I apologize. Mr. Wall: It was refinanced before I became the County Attorney. We did look at it several years go as far as whether or not it was possible to work with the Coliseum Authority at that time to refinance it, and it was not something that could be done at that point, is my recollection. Mr. Kolb: We just did it recently, looked at Coliseum bonds. We’ve been advised we should not touch those. They could turn into a taxable bond issue, number one. Number two, the Coliseum [inaudible] not that significant. Mr. Cheek: Do we review -- we pass through millions of dollars to Downtown Development. Have we been able to review, do we have the ability to review all of their bonds and make sure they’re not holding some that could be refinanced for savings? Mr. Wall: We have copies of all the documents. Mr. Cheek: So we’re covered on that and that everything that they have has been refinanced or is as low-interest as possible, too? Mr. Kolb: Because we pay for those bonds out of our urban services district revenue, we keep them on our books. Our books, even though they are issued by the Downtown Development Authority, we pay them off. So we have looked at -- we even looked at the utility bonds that we issued back in 1996 in full and the only ones that we felt would give us an advantage were the ones that are on the agenda today. Mr. Cheek: Thank you. Mr. Kolb: Other bonds that we’ve looked at, for one reason or another, we should not refinance at this time or refund. Mr. Cheek: None of those reasons were political, I hope. Mr. Kolb: Absolutely not. They were all strictly based on the policy that I just gave. Mr. Cheek: Thank you. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Shepard? Mr. Shepard: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. In light of your comments, Jim and George, shouldn’t the motion be to recommend that the Downtown Development Authority refinance these bonds? They’re Downtown Development Authority bonds, should we just take an action that we have staff do [inaudible]? Is that a technical question? Should we recommend to the Downtown Development Authority we do it or can we do it? That’s my question. 79 Mr. Kolb: We can do it, I believe. Let’s get a legal opinion. Mr. Shepard: Jim? Mr. Wall: Well, I’ve talked to their attorney. They understand what we want to do. They are going to cooperate with us. I don’t want to get into semantics. In my opinion, it’s recommend because I think that they are the ones that have got the issue. Mr. Shepard: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, I make the motion that we recommend to the Downtown Development Authority that we proceed with the refunding of these two Series 1989 and 1990 Downtown Development Authority Parking Bonds on the condition that it’s cost effective and that we hold a competition for the investment brokers to bid for the best deal for the City in the refunding process. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: There is a motion and second on the floor. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor -- Mr. Kuhlke: Mr. Chairman? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Yes? Mr. Kuhlke: Mr. Kolb? I think Mr. Kolb wanted to respond to that. Mr. Kolb: I just checked with our Finance Director. That’s okay. I do want you to understand that this is going to be a private financing. It will not be on the open public market. Mr. Shepard: But I understand that several entities -- excuse me, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Go ahead. Mr. Shepard: I understand that several entities had suggested this idea to us, and as long as all of those who came forth with the idea to save the city money, because I remember in the committee I think my colleague Mr. Williams said well, what is there to debate about saving $282,000? So I mean I think when we save money, we need to take advantage of any opportunity, and so people that bring us ideas for saving money should at least have some shot at participating in their ideas. Mr. Kolb: Absolutely. And we will provide that opportunity. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Any further discussion? 80 Mr. Williams: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Williams? Mr. Williams: Clarification on the -- excuse me, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem -- on the private side. George said that it wouldn’t be an open -- I mean I thought if competition was there that the price would -- Mr. Wall: Private placement simply means if you sell the bonds on open market you have to go through filing a prospectus and official statement, whereas if you -- it’s like borrowing money from a bank, except [inaudible]. Mr. Williams: Thank you, thank you, I needed that. Thanks. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Anything else? Any other discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion please signify by the sign of voting. Motion carries 8-0. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Madame Clerk, we’ll take item 36 next. The Clerk: ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES: 36. Consider salary increase request from the District Attorney’s Office. (No recommendation from Administrative Services Committee September 9, 2002) Mr. Bowcutt: Good afternoon. My name is Bill Bowcutt. I’m the Chief Assistant District Attorney. I am here on behalf of Mr. Craig, who is in trial today, and asked me to take his place here. We are requesting the authority from the County Commission to authorize an opening salary to a secretary in our office at a rate of 25% higher than the standard opening salary. We currently have a Grade 39 opening already funded and available. The situation we find ourselves in is that with most government agencies, we obviously need to hire people and need to do so within budget and need to do so within the guidelines, and generally we are able to do so. However, in addition to being a government agency, we are also a very large law firm, and as a result of that we have some specialized needs. The District Attorney’s office in Richmond County, or for this Circuit, the Augusta Circuit, is actually one of the largest law firms in the eastern end of the state. And as such, we have some special needs in that we need a legal secretary in certain circumstances. The opening that we have available right now resulted from the retirement of one of our most experienced secretaries, and we are in need of somebody to replace her, more or less to do our appellate work, not our standard secretarial work. We have sought a secretary who might come in at a standard opening salary of $20,167. We are unable to find one. We have already found two secretaries, one of whom is an actual legal secretary. That’s her job function currently. And another person who is a former employee of the District Attorney’s office who left about a year-and-a-half ago for the 81 purpose of getting more money in a different location. She is willing to come back. Either of these people -- we’re only seeking one -- but either of these two candidates would be appropriate for our opening. Neither of them will come at the salary of $20,167. Mr. Craig is requesting the authority to offer $25,208.75, which is an increase of 25% over the standard base salary for a Grade 39. The money is currently in the District Attorney’s budget. It is not going to be an additional request for funding, is my understanding, merely an authority to offer money already within the budget. When we went to the Administrative Services Committee meeting last week, the issues that came up then were the one I just mentioned, whether or not the money was currently available in the District Attorney’s budget, and also what were the ranges of the salary scale and whether we were within some sort of a range there such that we would not be setting an unreasonable precedent for offering too high a salary to incoming secretaries. The range for the Grade 39 is $20,167. The mid-point is $28,809. And the high end is $34,571. The offer of $25,208 is will below the mid-point range of $28,809. Mr. Kuhlke: I move approval. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Do we have a motion? Mr. Shepard: Mr. Kuhlke moved, and I’ll second. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Okay, we have a motion and second. Mr. Shepard? Mr. Shepard: Well, I was just going to say, gentlemen, that certainly appellate work is a highly technical form a legal secretary work. It takes a special kind of person just to put up with the lawyer who she or he is working for anyway. But the appellate level, I know there used to be some judges, when they came across one misspelled word in an appellate brief, they would strike the word and tear out the entire page and send it back to the lawyer. So the secretarial skills of a professional are very valuable in that part of the appellate process. If it’s in the budget of the District Attorney and hopefully it doesn’t make too much trouble with our classification scrutiny, I think we should approve it. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: We have a motion and second on the floor. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion please signify by the sign of voting. Mr. Mays out. Motion carries 7-0. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: We’ll go back to item 27. Item 34. Let’s go to 34. We’ve got a gentleman been sitting here all day. The Clerk: 34? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Yes. 82 The Clerk: 34. Z-02-108 – A request for concurrence with the Augusta Richmond County Planning Commission to approve with the conditions that 1) the use be limited to office use only and 2) that there will be no on-site storage of materials or parking of vehicles used by the business; a petition by Fred Boeck, on behalf of Josephine Boeck, requesting a change of zone form Zone R-1C (One-family Residential) to Zone P-1 (Professional) affecting property located at 123 Broad Street Extension and containing .2 acres (Tax map 48-3 Parcel 68). DISTRICT 1 Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Our Planning and Zoning person? Mr. Speaker: He had to leave. Mr. Cheek: I’m going to make a motion to approve. Mr. Shepard: Second. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Motion and second on the floor. Any discussion? Mr. Williams: Yes, sir, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Williams? Mr. Williams: I’m not in disagreement. I’m going to support the motion for this change, but our Planning, George Patty, I wish was present. We had a young man came to go to Broad Street here last meeting, I believe it was, to buy a [inaudible], and on the back of the old Lakeview Pharmacy drug store want to put a business there. And you know we turned it down. I think the applicant thought that it wouldn’t come before this Commission and the applicant didn’t show up. But I mean I want to go on the record to say that I’m going to notify this young man cause I think that that’s something that is going to be viable to that community and what’s up there, I got no problem with this one. But when I saw the address and we talked about the probably 1800 or 1900 block of Broad Street at the old Lakeview Pharmacy at Crawford Avenue there, behind that old drug store, they want to put a car rental. And we disapproved that. But I got no problem with this. I just want to make that -- that’s not my District, Commissioner Kuhlke, I’m looking out for -- Mr. Kuhlke: Your friend. Mr. Mays: -- my friend, who is out today, Mr. Beard. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: All in favor of the motion, please signify by the sign of voting. Mr. Mays out. 83 Motion carries 7-0. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Item 27. The Clerk: 27. Motion to approve the acquisition of One (1) F150 Pickup Truck for the Augusta Recreation Department from Bobby Jones Ford of Augusta, Georgia for $16,693.04 (lowest bid offer on Bid 02-154). (Approved by Finance Committee September 9, 2002) Mr. Shepard: I move approval Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Motion and second. Mr. Williams, you pulled this. Mr. Williams: Yes, sir, I was hoping I would get a chance to address it. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: You will. Mr. Williams: The way things was going, I didn’t think I was going to get that chance. In fact, we can take 27 and 28. Mr. Beck is here and I just got a couple of questions, first of all, on item 27. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Let’s do this. Let’s see if the maker of the motion will accept 28. Mr. Shepard: I certainly will. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Okay. 28. Motion to approve the acquisition of Two (2) Work Detail Vans for the Augusta Recreation Department from Bobby Jones Ford of Augusta, Georgia for $24,351.46 each (lowest bid offer on Bid 02-155). (Approved by Finance Committee September 9, 2002) Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Seconder of the motion? Mr. Cheek: Absolutely. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Go ahead, Mr. Williams. Mr. Williams: On item 27, the pickup truck that we are purchasing, Mr. Beck, are we replacing one? What is actually taking place here? 84 Mr. Beck: It is a one-for-one swap, sir. Mr. Williams: I been, I been very adamant about buying and selling cars and the one that we’re replacing is what year? Mr. Beck: It’s a 1992. Mr. Williams: 1992? I talked with some people at the State level about their vehicles, and the State is being very responsible to the State when it comes to equipment. I wouldn’t want us riding around in Recreation or any part of this government [inaudible] that’s going to fall down. But a 1992 truck, we spending some $16,693.04 that I don’t think we need to spend. Tom, I mean, this is nothing with Rec. This is about all the vehicles we got going through here. We got a 1992, if there was a problem with a motor or transmission, for $5,000 we can exchange motors and transmissions from the dealer. I mean with a warranty. And I’m not going to support it. I didn’t say anything in Finance because I never going to get any help in there. I’m not going to get any help on this Commission either but I’m going to at least voice an opinion that we are spending entirely too much money on, on, on vehicles that we using and in this case, Recreation, to go from point A to point B. We go ahead and take the same question with item 28. This is a work detail van. Are we replacing anything with these work detail vans? Mr. Beck: Commissioner Williams, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, members of the Commission, Mr. Williams, these models are 1988 and 1990 models. These are the vans that are used for our inmate details, our correctional details that are so important to our operation. When these vehicles, these other models go down, we’re without, as you well know, a tremendous amount of labor that impacts our department, so these are costing this government a lot of money and they need replacing. Mr. Williams: I’m in support again, Mr. Beck. I think we’re on the same page, but we spending $24,351.26 in this agenda item for two vans to haul inmates to do work in this government. Naturally the heat index is really been rough this summer and you wouldn’t want anybody riding without an air conditioner. But I still think that we could do something a lot different than what we doing with the city’s money. If you add up these two items together, I mean that’s a significant amount of money that we’re spending on automobiles. And if we got a van that need a engine -- we got to start being smarter with our tax dollars. I’ve talked to some agency at the State level who’s got some ’80 model cars and trucks that they are still using for the state officers to go back and forth. These are not inmates. These are actually state workers who are still driving ’80 and ’81, ’82 Chevrolets that’s still running. But we change cars like most of us change neckties. So we need to be more mindful of it. I’m not going to support the motion. I think you got enough to get what you need, Tom. But this is something I been on for a long time and I’m going to keep saying that until somebody gets the notion that we can do some things different with our monies than what we spend it on now. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Boyles? 85 Mr. Boyles: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Let me just ask a question, maybe of Ron, because a couple of weeks ago or earlier, the latter part of last month or whatever, we set aside some money for lot cleanup, $74,000 or $79,000 was set aside. Are we -- we are replacing these vehicles. Are we going to need vehicles for that program? Mr. Speaker: That’s a dilemma we’re in right now and that’s how [inaudible]. When I first came here nine years, ten years ago [inaudible] inspected all these vehicles and so forth, I think Recreation had two work details for 50-some-odd facilities. That’s expanded because the mission of Recreation has expanded. But it’s the resources trying to catch up with the mission. We haven’t been able to do it. So we take excess vehicles that somebody else turned in, we spruce it up, we put money into it, we give it over to Recreation, he’s able to do his mission. I can’t keep these things running. I can’t get parts for an ’88 Ford van anymore. If the door gets shot, I can’t get a door, and it’s the bearing. And when I bring a need to the Commission, I’ve looked at everything. I know how much money I’ve put into these vehicles. I know what to expect as far as parts availability. I know if I’ve put in a transmission. We put a transmission in the [inaudible] last year. But I’m worried about the door falling off now, and I expect the door to fall off, I expect the bearing to wear out within the next four to six months. So that van will not be useful in any way, shape or fashion, and that’s why I bring it to the Commission. He’s in desperate need of two replacements this year, and I’m going to come back next year and ask for two more. Mr. Boyles: I’m not questioning Tom’s need at all. I know that. I was just thinking, just trying to think about what we had approved and what we are going to have vans to move inmates. I think Mr. Kolb wants to answer the question. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Kolb? Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, members of the Commission, a couple of things. First of all, the question from Commissioner Boyles, in answer to Commissioner Boyles’ question, the $75,000 did not include the acquisition of another vehicle. Not saying that we may not need one, but that that appropriation did not contain it. We’ll purchase a vehicle another way if the need so arises. The second thing, I have to concur with what Mr. [inaudible] is saying with respect to the age and maintenance of our vehicles. This government spent a lot of time in terms of coming up with a replacement policy for our vehicles, and basically to simplify, even though it is a complex procedure or process, when a vehicle has reached a certain age and has reached a certain dollar amount in terms of maintenance and depreciation and wear and tear and down time, it exceeds the cost of a new vehicle and the maintenance that goes along with it. We had a lot of vehicles in the fleet, and we just cannot afford to spend a lot of money on older-type vehicles. We’ll be more than happy to sit down and talk about or demonstrate to the Commission that the process that we go through is rational and it has reached the cost where it has exceeded its expected useful life and it should be replaced. One of the vehicles in question here has 130,000 miles on it. It is past its useful life 86 Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Williams? Mr. Williams: Thank you, sir. Mr. Kolb seems to be pretty accurate with the mileage on one. If Ron or anyone can tell me how many miles a car lifespan is, I mean I’d like to know that because I think not only that, you can tell me some things that going happen next year. You can’t say that a car will last 120,000 miles and that’s the lifespan. The money we are spending on maintenance work on our cars should be giving us more and better service than we are getting. We are spending $3 million a year, if I’m not correct somebody need to correct me, with a preventive maintenance program. Spending $3 million a year on preventive maintenance service. Somebody is not doing their job. Now if you got a vehicle and it’s got 100,000 miles does not mean that it’s wore out if it been properly maintained. Now if you have not maintained that automobile and it’s just been [inaudible] there, yeah, it won’t last 100,000 miles. And I’m not sitting here saying that we ought to be so [inaudible] that we don’t spend money on our cars, but when you look back over the history of this year, how much money we have spent, how many new vehicles we are buying to haul inmates -- I see inmates riding around in a 2002 van to cut grass with. And that don’t make good sense when we got other vehicles that we just had this year a auction that we sold vehicles that people bought for little or nothing and still using them. But they wasn’t no good for us. But they doing the same type work, if not harder work, than we are doing with them. Something don’t make good sense to me. Whether we recognize it, whether we do something about it or not, I’m bringing those issues forward to the Commission so we can understand. Now Mr. [inaudible] said that he can’t keep these automobiles together. And I don’t know, I don’t know pro or con what he’s doing, what he’s not doing. But I do know that other agencies such as the state level is using, still using ’80 model cars and trucks, that they can get doors for, they get windshields for, they can get motors and transmissions for. And if anything, if we can keep the drive train going, we certainly ought not have as many wrecks unless somebody is knocking the doors off of them. And if you got employees doing that, then we need to look at the employees. Now I’m not supporting it and, and, and, and Steve, you know, we do this every week, with the same thing. I’m just trying to bring some awareness. And if you don’t take my word, check around the state, look at other agency. Andy and I was in Athens, Georgia, when a smaller community told the whole entire class that they buy refurbished vehicles from larger cities with 100,000 miles on them and use them for another 100,000 miles. Doing the same work we do. Is that right, Commissioner? Mr. Cheek: That’s correct. And then they sell them. Mr. Williams: And then they sell them. But we, every time we look around, we don’t know what happening. Somebody ain’t doing their job. It’s just as simple as that. And that’s all, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. I can’t support it. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Any other questions? Mr. Kolb? Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, members of the Commission, we’d be more than happy to put on a workshop for you and explain this. The mileage on a vehicle is only one factor that goes into consideration of whether or not that vehicle should be replaced. 87 As I said earlier, if we are sinking a lot of money into maintenance and replacing motors and doors, etc., then it’s more cost effective for us to replace it with something. And we can back up that we are using the best management practices that other fleet departments are using across the country. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Cheek? Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. I just -- I’m going to support the measure, but the thing that concerns me is that I’ve got two vehicles daily driven that are over 130,000 miles. I maintain them myself, changing my oil and lubrication and so forth. I see F350 Dooleys, twin cabs and so forth, with one person in them, hauling nothing, being driven all over. We really do -- although we get good deals on gasoline, we get good deals on vehicles, continuing to at least be diligent and making sure that we tighten down on appropriate size of vehicles, appropriate use of vehicles, and appropriate replacements is something you are going to always hear from us at least. I’m sure staff is refining the policies and procedures over time, but that’s something we’ve got to continually do because I drive in a day and I’m sure I see four or five pickup trucks that are gas guzzlers, four wheel drive trucks never been off the road and that type of thing that we have to address and make sure that we’re not spending money unnecessarily. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Shepard? Mr. Shepard: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, I call for the question. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: The question has been called. We have a motion and second on the floor. All in favor of the motion, please signify by the sign of voting. Mr. Williams votes No. Motion carries 7-1. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Item number 30. 30. Motion to approve an Ordinance to amend Augusta Richmond County Code by amending Section 5-2-6; to provide mandatory sewer connection; to provide penalties for failure to comply; to provide an effective date; to repeal conflicting Ordinances; and for other lawful purposes. (Approved by the Commission September 3, 2002 – second reading) Mr. Cheek: I move to approve. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Motion on the floor. Mr. Williams: I second that, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. I’ve got some information from Max Hicks, and my question was we -- I’ve got residents in the District that on one street don’t have access to tie in to our city’s sewer system. They are still on septic tank. On the street behind them or in front of them, whichever way you look at it, going to be 88 mandatory, told to be put on it. Well, my thing is what about those people in the next, the block behind them, who is still on septic tanks? What are we doing to correct or what are we doing to get aggressive to bring this old part of the city? And right now I’m thinking about Olive Road. Got three or four businesses on there that don’t have connection to the sewer system. But the street behind there has been run, the sanitation sewer has been run in those areas, but all around them do not have. I mean how can I make it mandatory for these people who not even a block away do it, but the folks in front of them don’t have no way of doing it, they still on septic tanks? Mr. Wall: You’ve got to be within 200 feet of the sewer line. That’s the -- Mr. Williams: I understand, Jim, and I got the clarification from Max. But I’m saying, I’m saying that we making it mandatory that the people go ahead and tie in, if they in 200 feet of the line. But a block away, less than a block away, the street in front of or the street behind, depending on how you look at it, they don’t have the line there. In other words, you mandatory the man in the back to tie into it, but the man in front of him don’t have the infrastructure to tie into. And I’m thinking about Olive Road. There at Milledgeville Road. If you go down to the left on Olive Road to the Gordon Highway, that’s the old part of this city. They don’t have sanitation. They do not have access to tie in. There are several businesses. There are several salons who have called me to ask when is it coming, when are we going to do something? And that’s one of the oldest part of this city but it don’t have it. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Cheek? Mr. Cheek: Just as a supportive question of this, where are we at with the recommendations from the sewer tie-in subcommittee as far as the financial information and the contractor information that would support this? Mr. Wall: That’s part of this. And the RFP, I think probably will be out very soon or did go out. Mr. Cheek: When we start the clock on these folks, I want to be able to hand them, you know, a list of all that we’ve promised that we would have ready so that when the clock is ticking they’ll have a list and it will be up to them to pick and get [inaudible]. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: We do have a motion and second. All in favor of the -- Mr. Boyles: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Sorry, Mr. Boyles. Mr. Boyles: If I may respond to Mr. Williams, I’ve had several of the same problems up -- when I talked to Doug Cheek, he says that a lot of these little pockets that have probably been overlooked and bypassed in the years past, they’re finding those now 89 and they’re working on them. So we’ve got some of the same problems and I think if you’ll stay behind it, I’ll stay behind it, and we can work on it. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Mays? Mr. Mays: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, I think Tommy pretty much got to the same point that I was talking about. That’s probably one that’s going to need to be answered in that money that we’ve got for those pocketed, unpocketed areas that we are going to have to deal with. Because that particular one that he’s talking about, it falls into a double whammy, because now when the mandatory sewage comes in, it still is in a pocket area there and it also was in the area where when we had two governments, when the city annexed, that it went around this particular area, so there is a second round of bad feelings that you’ve got in an area that was contiguous to the old city. And very close and a stone’s throw across the old city lines. So I think it’s one within Public Works that we are going to need to work on [inaudible] very close to where the old lines were. Because the bad feeling that you get from that, and I guess what I’m looking at, I’m looking down the road and continued sales tax for it, and you [inaudible] but even for [inaudible] bond money in a positive way and voted for it. So I think that’s one committee-wise that we are going to have to make sure that that gets in there, because if it gets left out, that’s another one of those confidence breakers that can happen, to a point that if we are looking at trying to get something mandatory that’s almost to another county line, but we can’t deal with it to a point of where, you know, you’re on the borderline of two different governments that it’s going to [inaudible] bad problems in there. And I think Rev. Williams has a good point in there. I can support the ordinance, but I think that’s one we’ve got to look at, the committee can deal with that very quickly. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Cheek? Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Just a quick comment as well. I was assured, too, that when we put in these major trunk lines down these roadways that these roads were to be immediately put on the paving list to be repaved. I’ve got several -- and all of us will have that have these things going in within your Districts -- that should be put on the list immediately. I’ve got moon scapes in District 6 right now and I haven’t seen any of the roads come up on any list. So I’ll be interested to watch that and certainly if these are not repaved in a reasonable amount of time and we’re imposing these penalties on this after the assurance is given, it’s going to certainly be some form of long talk about why we [inaudible] that fell through the cracks as well, and that’s something for all of us to look at. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Any further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion please signify by the sign of voting. Motion carries 8-0. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Item number 53, Madame Clerk. 90 The Clerk: PETITIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS: 53. Motion to approve the pass-through grant award in the amount of $5,000 for Belle Terrace and May Park Community Centers. Mr. Shepard: I so move. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Rev. Hankerson? Mr. Hankerson: Thank you. I just need some clarification on that, explaining that grant [inaudible] Belle Terrace. I need to be knowledgeable of what this is all about. [inaudible] Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Can someone explain that? George, can you explain the grants? Item 53. Mr. Hankerson: [inaudible] grant award. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Pass-through grant to Belle Terrace and May Park. Mr. Wall: Well, let me -- maybe I better defer to David Persaud. I drew up contracts for all of the pass-through grants, where the money was passing through Augusta to another agency. As you will see from this letter in the back-up, this money is coming to Augusta to be used for summer children’s programs at Belle Terrace Community Center and the May Park. If there is another entity that is actually putting on those summer children’s programs as opposed to the Recreation Department, then there will be a contract between that entity and Augusta, making them responsible for the handling of the funds. And now if the Recreation Department is the one that is actually doing that summer children’s program then there would not be a contract, you would just be approving the grant. And I don’t know the answer to the question. I guess Tom -- I said David, I guess it’s really a Tom Beck question. I don’t know if Tom is here or not. Mr. Hankerson: But that’s fine. If we’re getting $5,000 to Belle Terrace, I just wanted to know we were getting $5,000 for the kids’ program. We can use it. We really can use it over there. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Go ahead, Mr. Kolb. Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, members of the Commission, I think this is going to a private entity, this is not one of our grants. We’re, by law, we are to be a pass- through for all State grants that come to the local area. And so we have to, you have to accept those and then we just pass it on to the entity that is actually going to use it. In this particular case, I don’t know who it is. 91 Mr. Hankerson: That’s what I was asking, are we -- we can find use of it. Mr. Kolb: Understood. But by law, we are required by the [inaudible], we are required to accept the grant on behalf of any entity within Augusta who is receiving the grant and then we have to monitor it. So it goes through our Finance Department and this is just a formality, more or less. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: So we wouldn’t know who is getting this grant? Mr. Kolb: We know. It’s just not in here. I don’t -- Mr. Wall: We’ll have a contract [inaudible]. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: He was saying it was going to a private entity. Mr. Wall: [inaudible] Mr. Hankerson: It says Belle Terrace, so is a private entity one of the programs that is held at Belle Terrace? Mr. Kolb: It could be. Like for example, a senior citizens group that applied for or some other agency that applied for a grant and they were awarded the grant. But we have to receive it as the pass-through agency to give it to them. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Is Tom here? In other words, you’re saying that someone at Belle Terrace organization at Belle Terrace have applied for a grant and this is the grant that they are receiving? That’s what you’re saying? Mr. Kolb: That’s what I suspect it is, because I do not see where one of the departments of Augusta has actually put this on the agenda. So I’m making an assumption here cause it does not say who the grant recipient is. And as Jim said, if it is a private entity, there has to be a contract between Augusta and the entity that we can monitor on behalf of the State. Mr. Hankerson: Okay. Well, we welcome the $5,000 and I’ll find out over there that’s applied for one or need one [inaudible]. Thank you. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Kuhlke? Mr. Kuhlke: Just for clarification, the total grant is $5,000; am I correct? So it doesn’t necessarily mean that Belle Terrace is going to get all the $5,000? They may get $2,500; May Park may get $2,500? You don’t know? Mr. Kolb: They may get the entire $5,000. It’s designated for summer youth programs. 92 Mr. Kuhlke: But it designates both locations. Mr. Kolb: Right. That’s correct. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Mr. Kolb: So it would be used for both programs. Mr. Kuhlke: Okay. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Further discussion? Mr. Mays? Mr. Mays: Yes, Mr. Mayor, I think it might clear it up under Exhibit A on the last page of the information that came from [inaudible]. Where it specifically says usually, it’s empty, it’s some type of organization that one of the Legislators puts in for. And maybe they are using our facility or it’s coming [inaudible]. They are normally named. This particular one back here has that local assistance grant shall be used by Augusta Richmond County for summer children’s programs, so I assume it would be through the regular routine process where they do a pass-through and it actually goes to our department in terms of being to lump that in with similar funds being used in the summer. If it’s ABC [inaudible] to work [inaudible] it’s usually going to name that out. And obviously when Jim does contacts, DCA is going to have to have the particulars because you’ve got to make sure that the money is going to be spend inside Richmond County. So it’s a routine one that’s in there but if they didn’t divide it, I’m almost sure that it’s coming to our Rec Department to have to deal with it because [inaudible] Augusta Richmond County [inaudible]. Mr. Kolb: And I agree with Commissioner Mays. It just disturbs me that they don’t name the particular agency within Augusta, Augusta Richmond County. Mr. Kuhlke: Call the question. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Any further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion please signify by the sign. Mr. Williams out. Motion carries 7-0. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: That concludes the regular agenda. Mr. Wall? Mr. Wall: There was one addition that [inaudible] decided whether or not to amend, and that is a Resolution providing for funding the installation of the street lights. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Okay. I’m sorry. 93 Mr. Wall: I would request that this be added and if you would like me to address it now, I can tell you why I’m asking Mr. Cheek: I move to add. Mr. Shepard: Second. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Motion and second adding it. Any discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion, please vote. Mr. Shepard: Excuse me, you were looking the other way. I’d like to ask a question about it. I’ve got a question about it. Mr. Wall: In February of this year, you’ll see where we adopted a Resolution that basically said the street lighting for the arterial and interstate roadways would be funded out of the general fund. In the process of developing the format of the tax bills, etc., it came to our attention that the way that this needs to be done is rather than setting a millage rate on the suburban services area, everything outside the old city limits, it would be better to do it on the entire county, where we have an existing millage rate, and then give a credit for the urban services district. You get the same number, it’s just a methodology. And that facilitates the levy and the sending out of the tax bills. Mr. Shepard: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, if I could. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Go ahead, Mr. Shepard. Mr. Shepard: Thank you. Jim, would this be a way to re-light some areas that are residential on arterial streets? That won’t address that? Mr. Wall: No. At this point, subdivisions are still being assessed on [inaudible]. Mr. Shepard: I’m talking about, for example, two examples that come to mind, Walton Way Extension has no street lights basically from Camellia to the intersection with Jackson Road. And then out on the south side I think we, because of the residences and the burdens that we placed on the residences out there, we turned off the lights on Peach Orchard. Is this not a funding device to light both of those areas? Mr. Wall: It certainly is insofar as where we turned it off, and I don’t know whether or not Walton Way Extension is a part of the street lighting master plan or not, but if it’s not it could certainly be added to it and would be. Mr. Shepard: And what about the high-mast lights at some of the interstates? Will this affect that? Mr. Wall: Same thing. 94 Mr. Shepard: Thank you very much. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Cheek and then Mr. Mays. Mr. Cheek: I just want to say this is a vast improvement over what we had. It redistributes the burden of the cost of this to all those that enjoy that safety benefits of it. It’s just like the cost of operating red lights and so forth. And I just want to say good job for the changes. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Mays? Mr. Mays: Yes. I have no problem with us making the improvement, and I agree with Andy that that is a good step forward because there needed to be some corrections, particularly on major thoroughfare arteries where you still have residents who were living and being penalized. But I guess the question I’ve got where it says that the urban district would get the credit back in. If there are other means of financing within the urban districts that have been used, even where a certain portion of the urban district may qualify to use that for street lighting, are we dealing with a true credit to a district that is not really, you know, in other words if I’ve already bought something and you say I’m not having to pay for it, but I’ve already got it anyway from another source, then are you really giving me a credit or are you giving me a credit on paper? Mr. Wall: We’re giving you a credit. Mr. Mays: All right. Mr. Wall: Understand, though, street lighting in the old city limits [inaudible] so all street lights that are on Broad Street or whatever are paid for out of the general millage in the urban tax district, urban service district. And when we decide -- Mr. Mays: The majority of it, now, not trying to cut you off. But you’ve got some that have been dealt with in urban service district that have been dealt with out of federal monies and out of other sources of funds, whether you’ve done them down near the riverfront or whether you’ve done them in other areas. So you’ve got a mixture there of where it’s in the tax millage and you’ve got it from other sources of funding. So that’s why I’m trying to get a clarity when you say there is a tax credit. And I’m only saying that cause I’ve got folk I represent in both of those tax districts, and if that’s a true tax credit, you know, then no problem. But I don’t want it to look like there is a tax credit where in some areas it’s not really a tax credit, because it qualifies for usages to be able to deal with lights out of a funding source other than the millage. And therefore the millage did not go up because you had money to deal with it out of. Mr. Wall: Now what, the way this was passed back in February, everything outside of the old city limits, there will be a millage rate established that will pay for the arterial lights. [inaudible] street lights downtown and it pays for the old unincorporated 95 area to pay for the streets leading into the city. So that’s the way it was set up. Well, there is not currently a millage that just covers the old unincorporated area. The millage covers the entire county. So what they wanted me to do was redraft the resolution where the millage would cover the entire county, to cover [inaudible] but then the city would be given a credit for the amount of taxes so that you would just net just the old county unincorporated areas. Mr. Mays: I just wanted to see how the formula was working, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, cause some folk, when you hear credit like that and then you’ve got it spread out, but the you’ve got another method of funding part of that, I just wanted to make sure that was clear where you wouldn’t have some folk looking for a particular credit when you said well, this was funded out of another source of doing it. That’s all, I just wanted to make sure. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Okay, gentlemen, we have a motion and a second on the floor. All in favor of the motion, please signify by the sign. [It was the consensus of the Commission that this item be added and approved.] Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: We’ve got one more, we’ve got an item that we didn’t cover. We never covered item 57. Is there any more items on the agenda that we didn’t cover? The Clerk: I don’t believe so. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Okay. Let’s get to item 57, Madame Clerk. Go ahead, Madame Clerk. The Clerk: 57. Status report from the Internal Auditor regarding letters sent to area banks requesting identification of all accounts bearing City identification numbers. (Requested by Commissioner Bobby Hankerson) Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Rev. Hankerson? Mr. Hankerson: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Being proactive to some of the reports I’ve heard in the past, I asked the Commission to authorize our internal auditor to request from our area banking institutions, identifying all of the accounts in the city, bearing the city ID numbers. And it’s been some time now and I’m wondering whether that report is ready. I don’t see the internal auditor here. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Go ahead, Mr. Kolb. Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, members of the Commission, that is still a work in progress. We got an update from our auditors in fact as late as today. The letters were 96 sent out in July. There has been -- and they’re just now starting to come in because fees had to be paid, etc. So we should have a report within the next two or three weeks. Mr. Hankerson: I hear what you are saying, but how long does it take to issue a letter with things as hot as it was about the Special Grand Jury and accounts had been opened up, and I asked, and I’m trying to be proactive and it’s been like you said, since July, and I really don’t think it takes that long. We have hired or we have an internal auditor, we have people to do our business, and I put a couple of things, asked for a couple of things to be passed and they was passed and they’re not getting done. I’m concerned about that. Not only this but I’m also concerned about when the auditor gave us a report on our finances and so forth, there were some discrepancies, and I made a statement in that meeting that if we worked for the State, we wouldn’t have even passed this audit, and he’s saying that everything was all right. And some of those same things that I saw reflected in the Grand Jury report. And a motion was made then, I’m on the Finance Committee, and my Chairman is sitting down there and I’m assistant Chairman or Vice Chairman, I’m monitoring and learning after him. So in that same meeting, we made a motion and it was passed that these things would be checked on and that each department would come in compliance. And I haven’t heard anything back from that and even asking how long does it take banks to refer back to you. It’s been, I think it’s really I’d like to put in the form of a motion been too long. I’m not going to prolong it, but that this information be presented in our next Finance Committee meeting and we need to hear from our Internal Auditor as to why this has not been done. Mr. Shepard: Second. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: We have a motion and second on the floor. Any discussion? Mr. Cheek? Mr. Cheek: First I’d like to say to my esteemed colleague, welcome to our world. This is something that we’ve all been fighting for some time. To staff present, I fully realize that you, as my line management at my place of business will pass these things down to implementers who will make things happen. The delay, deny, defer program is about to come to an abrupt end. And two to three months to get information back on our finances to me is excessive. The word needs to go down the chain to the middle managers that I sweat at my place of business when my management comes to me and expects things in a short turnaround time. I don’t see a lot of sweat being offered on some of these things. And we passed this, as Commissioner Hankerson said, we pass things down the line, item after item, and this goes back historically way before any of our times. But that’s going to come to an end. We ought to be able to pull up where our money is at in pretty dog gone short order. Are we paying fees to banks for this information? Are we having to do that? Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, members of the Commission, the letter was sent to all the banks in late July at the time that you asked for it to be done. They got responses back from some of the banks that they had to pay a fee. So those fees were arranged to be paid and were issues. Hopefully that report will be coming in any day. 97 I’m not going to guarantee that you’re going to have a report at your next Finance Committee meeting. We may have another status report that they’re close. But no one has sat on this information, no one is sitting on any of the information that the Commission gives us, to my knowledge. We do the best we can. There is a lot to do, and we don’t want to come back with piecemeal information. Mr. Cheek: I understand and again I would like to ask the maker of the motion if to add a bit of teeth to our worth to banking institutions who make money off of our money charge us fees, then perhaps we ought-- to get information on our money -- I got to my credit union, I don’t have to pay for a report on it. Perhaps we need to start looking at cutting some of these people out of the bidding process. Mr. Kolb: Excuse me, but some of these banks are not our banks. Mr. Cheek: Okay. Mr. Kolb: I mean you asked for us to check all of the banks. We don’t use all of the banks all of the time, so some of the banks are going through their records and we have no business with them at all. Mr. Cheek: I just, still, though, the other side of that, George, is the fact that maybe there are some people investing in banks without the approval of the city, but we should know who we are doing business with. I guess if we’re checking all the banks, then we’re having to [inaudible] people and so forth. We should be able to sum it up and balance things out, seems like to me a little quicker than we’re doing. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Go ahead, George. Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, I can guarantee you that any revenues that this government receives and that we spend, we know where it’s coming and going. I think what Commissioner Hankerson and the Commission are concerned about are bank accounts that are opened without our knowledge, that take in revenues that do not come through our system and where checks are issued in our name. And that’s exactly what we’re trying to find out. The last time we did that was when the government consolidated so that we could identify all of our checks. Now we’re doing it again in light what has, events that have happened in the past, and we’ll get it done. We want to do a thorough job and make sure it’s done correctly. Mr. Cheek: I’m not thinking a lot of this stuff is done purposefully, but it’s like reporting data on our energy conservation plan, we’ve having to hold hands to get some of that done. The hospitality resources board that we empanelled that could help us solve some of our downtown ordinance problems perhaps, you know, I could think probably for a minute and come up with several more. There are just some things that we have asked to be done, that goes all the way bank to link deposits to [inaudible], there are some things that we passed as a board that is good legislation, and for some reason or another, the follow through is not there. And I applaud you for defending your staff. I do the 98 same thing. But there is a disconnect. It’s like the road paving list for the sewer thing. I bet you lunch that the roads that they are digging up right now, I bet you some of them are not even on the list right now and we were assured that they would be. That’s part of the follow-through, the attention to detail that I expect, and the rest of us do when we sweat, work two jobs, a lot of us, pass this legislation and just want to see it done. That’s it. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Hankerson and then Mr. Williams. Mr. Hankerson: Mr. Cheek addressed some of the things I was going to say. I’m concerned also if there are lending institutions, banks that we asked to do this and they charging us a fee. I would like to also have the name of those banks and the amount of fees they charging us to inquire on accounts. The matter of checking on an account and our ID number in this computer age that we are in, I just can’t understand why it takes so long. I know that businesses have other business beforehand, but I think since July, end of July, and this is almost now -- we almost looking at October in the face, it’s been too long to check on things like this. So we need to know. And if banks are going to charge us for just inquiring to see whether we have accounts out there, and I know that they are looking in the future, if they’re not doing business with us, in the future that they will be doing business with us, but if they are going to be charging us when we are trying to investigate and see there is any accounts that we don’t know of in our name, I think that comes a little ridiculous to charging us fees to do it. So I’d like to know the names of those banks, too. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Williams? Mr. Williams: Thank you, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. George, before your watch, before your tour, we moved $3.5 million on the telephone. I say again before your watch, before you came here. So when the government has those kind of funds being moved with a telephone call, and then we can’t find out how or what bank we’re dealing with and how much money we got in these banks, that ought to be something that the push of a button ought to be able to generate for us. I said before that I’m still on a fax machine so I don’t have a computer, I’m not on the internet. But with all of the modern technology, all of the email systems and the things that we’ve got, I can’t sit here and say that I can agree that it taking that much time. I hear you say you got a lot on you. You make the big bucks. When you make the big bucks, we expect big results. And those people under you, those people that working for you, before your watch we did not have the number of staff people that you got now. I expect to see more cause we pay more, and to get those accounts or get that information here, we are always [inaudible] excuse. We, we, any old song will do to bury the dead, cause they don’t know. And we sing any old thing just to [inaudible]. It is not time for that. Accountability is the word that Commissioner Shepard has picked up on. We need to be accountable to the people of Richmond County that elected us to be in this position. This ain’t no fun job. This ain’t nothing I have a good time doing. It’s something I work at. But I say again before your watch, before you came on board, we moved money and money was floating, going everywhere. So we need to have those things when we ask for those and we need to give 99 you ample time, but when it take a excessive time, then somebody need to step in and say that it’s excessive and we’re not going to tolerate that. You can’t pay folks to do what they want to do when they want to do it. You pay folks to do what you want them to do. That’s why you pay them. And we need to look at that and we need to be held accountable for those things that we are assigned to do, and if we can’t do them, look like somebody would come back and say well, we tried that but this is what the problem is. We will wait and wait and wait and then think well, it’s going to disappear. It ain’t going to disappear. That’s all, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Cheek? Mr. Cheek: Just to add, and again, I know we’re moving in the right direction, but we passed legislation mandating four drills a year, table top or full blown for emergency management. I don’t think the LEPC, the LEPC hasn’t met in months. Local Emergency Planning Committee. We haven’t had the four drills. The monthly reports from CH2MHILL, and I’ve talked to them about coming to do the public presentations, give the press and the public information on how good we’re doing things. We’re having five public meetings now. But I’ve had to beat on them for over a year to get them to come and provide the information. Sure, I get it on the internet, but we passed legislation that said come present monthly progress reports on expenditures and progress status reports. These are the kind of things that are culture changes for the staff that you have, that you’ve inherited in some cases. I know it’s going to be hard to make that change. But I’m telling you, frankly I’m tired -- like the drills, for instance. In spite of 9-1-1 we should have had more instead of less or none at all. Monthly reports. Those are things that that you shouldn’t have to hold staff’s hands to do. And folks are either going to get on board the train or it’s time to start letting the train leave the station and leave them behind, and you’ve got my support, if you can’t get that support out of staff. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Mr. Kolb? Mr. Kolb: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, members of the Commission, other than the drills, which I can’t speak to, the other issues that you have raised have all been in process in one format or another. Commissioner Williams made reference to moving $3 million in a minute. We still can do that. But if you recall what I said earlier, every dime that comes into this government, we know where it is and we can move it. We can do whatever with it. It’s those areas that I think that the Commission’s intent was where we don’t have any idea where revenues are coming from or where expenses are going, for revenues, and we actually don’t receive or have to oversee. With respect to the other projects, all it takes is picking up a phone to see where we are, and if there is some urgent matter -- like last week, you asked about mosquito control. We are putting a program together or a report for you. You asked about energy management. There is a report sitting on my desk that I will transmit to the Commission on where we are with the energy management control. And I could go on and on. I should remind you that the hospitality committee that you referred to was never adopted by this Commission. This is something that I did with respect to establishing that for long range planning for the downtown. That last week was the first time, or your last Commission meeting, is when 100 you first started talking about doing something for the downtown and putting together a committee. Mr. Cheek: No, Mr. Kolb, I have to correct you on that. I’ve been working on this for over a year, when we first started talking about extending the hours in the taverns and the Sheriff’s representative from Athens Clarke County came here and mentioned that, it was brought up on the floor then and voted on to empanel the hospitality resource panel using Athens Clarke County as a model. Mr. Kolb: I may be incorrect, but I think that your proposal was turned down and the -- Mr. Cheek: The extended hours was, and I asked the question at that meeting did that impact the panel and I was told no, it didn’t, that that was something that we at least got out of that. Mr. Kolb: Okay. Well, we’ll have to talk about that. I may be in error. But as I recall it, I don’t recall you naming a hospitality board. Mr. Cheek: [inaudible] Mr. Kolb: At any rate, I think that this government is moving along. We are addressing many of the issues that you have raised today, and if you want to have a conversation about it at any time, pick up the phone and we’ll give you a status report. Mr. Cheek: See, this is the thing. I get the information. The information that I’m requesting needs to come out in the form of these meetings and our committee meetings to go forth and be presented to the public. That’s my concern. To show that what, exactly what you’re talking about, that we are making the progress and here are the things that are happening. Mr. Shepard: Call for the question, Mr. Mayor Pro Tem. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: The question has been called. You had your hand up? You had your hand up? Mr. Shepard: To call the question. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Okay, the question has been called, Mr. Williams. Do we have a motion and second on the floor? Mr. Hankerson: We have. The motion that the information would be presented at our next Finance Committee meeting. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Okay. All in favor of the motion, please signify by the sign. 101 Mr. Kuhlke out. Motion carries 7-0. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Is there any other items on the agenda, Madame Clerk? The Clerk: No, sir. Other than the two after the legal. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: What now? The Clerk: Other than the two after the legal. 59 and 60. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: I’m sorry, the two after legal? Let’s go into legal first. 58. Legal meeting. ?? Discuss pending litigation and claims. ?? Discuss personnel matters. Mr. Wall: Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, could I make a suggestion. We have not completed the Administrator’s evaluation process because of the time, and I know it’s late and I think we said at the outset that we wanted to try to have as much involvement as we could. There is a workshop scheduled for Thursday afternoon of this week, and I would like to suggest that we have a called meeting at that time and go into legal session and deal with the Administrator’s evaluation process at that time, either before or after the workshop, perhaps [inaudible]. I mean if we can start it at three o’clock, a lot of the items that I need to talk to you about I could probably defer. About two or three that I need to address tonight. I can take all of them if you want to stay. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: I got one for legal that we need to talk about tonight. Mr. Wall: I know you do. And so -- I mean I can go through all of them or we can defer some of them until. Mr. Williams: Let’s defer some of them cause you ain’t going to have a quorum after while. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Well, this is one item that we need to deal with tonight in legal, if we only take this one. Mr. Wall: Well, I’ve got a couple that I need to take. Are y’all amenable to a called meeting Thursday for dealing with the Administrator’s evaluation and also dealing with some of these others? Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: I can come in for a while, but I can’t stay. [inaudible] I’m like the gentleman down there in the white shirt and the beard. Want to go into legal now? 102 Mr. Wall: Yes, sir, let’s go into legal now. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: Take the motion that we go into legal. Mr. Wall: Talk about potential litigation and personnel. Mr. Boyles: What was the workshop, the work session called for Thursday? Mr. Kolb: The workshop Thursday will definitely be the introduction of our website that will be coming out January 1. Talk a little bit about our corporate [inaudible]. It will not be a long meeting. I was hoping to get something else on, but it didn’t materialize. Mr. Shepard: I move we go into legal. Mr. Cheek: Second. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: We have a motion and second to go into legal. Mr. Mays: Wait, Mr. Mayor, can we get one thing clear, for George’s benefit? We’re talking about a legal session and a meeting. Are we going to determine now or after we come back out which is going to come first? Because [inaudible] work session [inaudible] importance of dealing with the Administrator’s evaluation. I think we need to set, whether it’s now or some other time, what’s going to come first so that you are not rushing out of one important thing to start another. You need to make a decision on the workshop that’s going to start and end at a certain time and be through with it, and then start your meeting and go into legal. Because if not, you could find yourself in legal with that and then not having a workshop. So I just think you need to have some time limit set with guidelines on where you are going to have this, rather than just getting in here. I just want to know which is going to come first [inaudible] either way you put it, but I’ve not heard what way it’s going to be. What’s going to be first [inaudible]. But I mean what’s going to be what, starting when? Is it a regular meeting that’s going to be here? Because if you set the meeting to start last, then you need to put a time limit and just say the work session gets through [inaudible] hour and a half or hour or whatever it’s going to be, then it ends, because then you’ve got to start a meeting. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: So you were talking about 3 o’clock on Thursday; is that correct? Mr. Kolb: That is correct. And I don’t believe that the website presentation will take more than 45 minutes to an hour. Mr. Mays: [inaudible] and not having the time to deal with it and start losing people and not have a quorum and not [inaudible]. [inaudible] lose folk, you better get what you need them here on and make that the first [inaudible]. 103 Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: We can have the workshop first and legal later. Mr. Kolb: Workshop first. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: 45 minutes, you said. So we can use the 45 minutes and then after that we go into legal. Mr. Mays: [inaudible]. Mr. Mayor Pro Tem: 3 o’clock. The meeting starts at 3:45 and ends and then we go into legal. Mr. Cheek: And Mr. Mayor Pro Tem, if we are going to be here Thursday this late, I reckon maybe we ought to order dinner. Mr. Kuhlke out. Motion carries 7-0. [LEGAL SESSION 6:55 – 7:00 P.M.] 59. Motion to approve authorization for the Mayor to execute affidavit of compliance with Georgia's Open Meetings Act. Mr. Shepard: I so move. Mr. Boyles: Second. Mr. Kuhlke out. Motion carries 7-0. 60. Approve compensation for Staff Attorney I. Mr. Wall: I would recommend that we approve the same compensation as the current Attorney I and include moving expenses in the amount of $2,500.00. Mr. Shepard: I so move. Mr. Mays: Second. Mr. Kuhlke out. Motion carries 7-0. Mr. Wall: I would request that you add and approve one additional item. It is to approve the settlement of property damage claim of Augusta Refrigeration Service for their damaged service van for the sum of $12,134.00. 104 Mr. Shepard: I so move. Mr. Mays: Second. Mr. Kuhlke out. Motion carries 7-0. [MEETING ADJOURNED] Nancy J. Morawski Deputy Clerk of Commission CERTIFICATION: I, Nancy W. Morawski, Deputy Clerk of Commission, hereby certify that the above is a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular Meeting of Augusta Richmond County Commission held on September 17, 2002. Deputy Clerk of Commission 105