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HomeMy WebLinkAbout10-17-2000 Regular Meeting (2) REGULAR MEETING COMMISSION CHAMBERS October 17, 2000 Augusta Richmond County Commission convened at 2:00 p.m., Tuesday, October 17, 2000, the Honorable Bob Young, Mayor, presiding. PRESENT: Hons. Colclough, J. Brigham, Mays, Kuhlke, H. Brigham, Shepard, Beard, Cheek, Williams and Bridges, members of Augusta Richmond County Commission. Also Present: Jim Wall, Attorney; Randy Oliver, Administrator and Lena Bonner, Clerk of Commission. MAYOR YOUNG: I would ask you to please rise. We'll call on the Reverend Rosa Williams, the pastor of the Ever Faithful Baptist Church, to give our invocation, and then I'll call on the clerk of the commission, Ms. Lena Bonner, to lead us in the pledge of allegiance to the flag. The Invocation was given by the Reverend Williams. The Pledge of Allegiance was recited. MAYOR YOUNG: Let me, please, remind you, too, that we are guests of the court in this room. You're not allowed to eat or drink or smoke in here. We ask you to please maintain the decorum and the dignity of court in the room we're in. And I know there are a number of people in the hall. There is court going on in the other courtroom at the other end of the hall so we'd please ask that you keep the conversation down to a very low tone in the hallway. As we move on through our meeting I know that some of you are going to hear things you like. You're going to hear things you don't like. I'm going to ask you please to refrain from outbursts. This is a meeting of the commission and let's conduct it with dignity today so that all sides can be heard and everyone's position can be respected, although maybe not always agreed with. These gentlemen have some difficult decisions to make today. I hope that you have kept them in your prayers and you will continue to do so after today. Some people will leave here pleased today, and others will not be so pleased. We’ll move along with our agenda. And we would like to present a resolution. Mr. Shepard, you had this on the agenda, a resolution for Mr. Oliver. MR. SHEPARD: Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. If I could, Madam Clerk, would you like me to read it or would you like to read it? CLERK: However you want to take it. MR. SHEPARD: Well, we ordinarily have you read it so I'll ask that you read the resolution and I'll make a motion after that. Thank you. CLERK: A resolution of appreciation for Charles R. "Randy" Oliver. Whereas Charles R. "Randy" Oliver was the first administrator hired by the consolidated government of Augusta, Georgia, and whereas Randy Oliver brought to this position the combined expertise of his training as a certified public accountant, a professional engineer, and a masters in business administration, and whereas Randy Oliver through his leadership has caused the consolidated government to examine its base needs, its management, and its salaries, and whereas during Randy's tenure Augusta has successfully completed a $97 million revenue bond issue for expansion of its municipal water and sanitary sewer system and has extended its special purpose local option sales tax for another five years for the funding of $150 million in new capital projects throughout Augusta-Richmond County, Georgia, and whereas the elected officials, city employees, and people of Augusta have benefited from his keen analytical skills, financial acumen, integrity, and leadership and where now, therefore, it be resolved that the Augusta-Richmond County Commission does hereby express its thanks to Randy Oliver for his outstanding service to our community. And be it further resolved that this resolution be spread upon the official minutes of the Augusta-Richmond County Commission and a copy thereof given to Randy Oliver and his family this 17th day of October 2000. MR. SHEPARD: Mr. Mayor, the resolution being read by the clerk, I would move approval by this body. MR. WILLIAMS: Second. MAYOR YOUNG: Any discussion? All in favor please vote by raising your hand. Motion carries 10-0. MAYOR YOUNG: The motion passes unanimously. Thank you. Randy, I will afford you a moment if you'd like to say anything in response to the resolution because I think we'd all-- MR. OLIVER: I'd just like to recognize my wife, Valerie, who I couldn't do it without. As everybody knows, she's always with me everywhere I go. And I would like to thank each of you for the privilege of being the administrator of Augusta-Richmond County. It's been very exciting. I think that it's been an exciting endeavor, and while there are things to be done as you go forward I think there are a lot of things that have been accomplished. And I'm just proud to have been a part of it and to have known each and every one of you. And I will treasure that now and into the future. Thank you. MAYOR YOUNG: The next item of business, Madam Clerk? CLERK: City of Augusta Employee of the Month. MAYOR YOUNG: The employee of the month selection committee has selected Mr. William H. Steptoe with the Richmond County Sheriff's Department as the Employee of the Month for the month of September. Mr. Steptoe has worked for Augusta since 1989. He is currently employed as a deputy sheriff, road patrol. His supervisor, Sergeant Mike Anchor, who writes, Deputy Steptoe is assigned to a shift traffic car and, as such, is responsible for investigating serious traffic accidents and enforcing law--enforcing traffic laws, nominated Mr. Steptoe. He is also utilized as a shift field training officer and handles these assignments in a professional manner. The committee felt that based on Sergeant Anchor's recommendation and Mr. Steptoe's attributes he would make an ideal choice for Employee of the Month. Sergeant Anchor further states that Deputy Steptoe does not call in sick nor is he ever late in reporting for duty. Deputy Steptoe conducts himself in a manner that reflects highly on this sheriff's department. Sergeant Anchor goes on to say, the way in which he carries out his duties make my job as supervisor much easier as he can be counted on to assist the younger, newer deputies at accident scenes and training. This department, this shift, and the citizens are fortunate to have an employee of Deputy Steptoe's caliber. The committee will appreciate you joining in awarding Deputy Steptoe Employee of the Month this 17th day of October. MAYOR YOUNG: Congratulations. We're all very proud of the job you do every day for the people of Augusta-Richmond County, and you do it with honor and great dignity to the office of sheriff. And we appreciate that. Thank you. [Award is presented.] MAYOR YOUNG: Anything you'd like to say? DEPUTY STEPTOE: No, sir. MAYOR YOUNG: Okay. Back to patrol. Thank you very much. Madam Clerk, the next item we take up will be item number 43. CLERK: Reconsideration of the denial of an application of Judy Tyler for an on-premise consumption liquor, beer, and wine license to be used in connection with Off Broadway Dining and Dancing located at 1285 Broad Street. There will be a dance hall and Sunday sales. MAYOR YOUNG: All right. This item actually is recaptioned because this is an appeal of the denial of that application, and that appeal was filed in writing by the petitioner. Mr. Williams, you're representing the petitioner today in this appeal? MR. BILL WILLIAMS: I am, Mr. Mayor. MAYOR YOUNG: All right. We will let you proceed in one moment. We always like to have a head count for the record so if we could have a--we will try as best we can to estimate the number of people on both sides of this issue. Those who are in favor of—if you are in support of this license being granted for this location would you please raise your hand? Mr. Wall is our official statistician and he tries to include everybody. MR. WALL: Approximately 55. MAYOR YOUNG: Okay. Now, those who are opposed to the granting of this license please raise your hand. MR. WALL: Are we counting the children as well? MAYOR YOUNG: We'll count anybody who is opposed to it. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But they're not voters. MAYOR YOUNG: Voting has nothing to do with it. Some of the people who own property downtown and businesses downtown don't live in Augusta, so. So we don't get that concerned about geography. This is an appeal from an action by the commission at our previous meeting denying the application. At that time when the denial— CLERK: 245. MAYOR YOUNG: --was recorded into the minutes— MR. OLIVER: 245. MAYOR YOUNG: --as a matter of the vote of the commission that was the time when we had the public hearing. Today is not a public hearing. It is an appeal. The petitioner has come back to us to ask us to review that decision, though in order to perfect the record I will ask the clerk to include in the minutes of the meeting today those comments that were included in the minutes of the meeting from last week from those in favor of this license and those opposed to it. So those will be carried over to the meeting today from--for that record. Mr. Williams, if you will stand on this side over here so this microphone can pick you up and everybody can hear you, you may go ahead and proceed. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: Mr. Mayor, just a point of clarification. MAYOR YOUNG: Yes, sir. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: The entire proceeding from last time will be included, not just comments. MAYOR YOUNG: Yes, sir. It will be included. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: It will be the entire proceeding. MAYOR YOUNG: Yes, sir. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: Call Mr. Stewart Walker. MAYOR YOUNG: All right. Now, if you'd like to put Mr. Walker under oath you may do that, just out of habit. We have a question. Commissioner Cheek? MR. CHEEK: Mr. Mayor, is it my understanding then that those that are in opposition to this will not be allowed to speak today? MAYOR YOUNG: Well, they spoke two weeks ago in their opposition to it. This is an appeal to our decision. MR. CHEEK: It just seems like it would be in order for those that have concerns to be able to— MAYOR YOUNG: All right. The chair will take that under advisement. Go ahead, Mr. Williams. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: I don't think it's necessary to put him under oath, is it, Jim? MR. WALL: No. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: You're going to tell the truth anyway, aren't you? MR. WALKER: Yes, sir. STEWART WALKER, Was Examined and Testified as Follows: EXAMINATION BY MR. BILL WILLIAMS: Q. State your name and your position. A. Stewart Walker, license manager, Augusta-Richmond County. Q. And how long have you held that position? A. Since consolidation after '96. Q. Are you familiar with the application submitted on behalf of Ms. Tyler for a license at this location on Broad Street? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, where is this property located? A. Located at 1285 Broad Street. Q. And is that in the central downtown business district? A. Yes, sir. Q. Which is obviously primarily businesses. There is very little residential use surrounding this property; is that correct? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now, was the application in order? A. Yes, sir. It met all the requirements of the license and inspection department and it was approved by us and the sheriff's department. Q. And you do a background check to see if Ms. Tyler is qualified to hold a license? A. We don't. The sheriff's department does, and they approved it. Q. Okay. So as far as your office is concerned there is no reason based upon the ordinance or other legal requirements for this license not to be granted? A. That's my opinion, yes. Q. Do you know of any reason why it should not be granted? A. No, sir. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: That's all the questions I have of Mr. Walker. Mr. Osbon, Julian Osbon, to testify. [Mr. Walker remains; Mr. Osbon takes the stand.] MAYOR YOUNG: Mr. Osbon, if you'd give us your name and address for the record, please. Then you may proceed, Mr. Williams. MR. OSBON: Julian Osbon. 1117 Kirk Place, Augusta, Georgia, 30909. JULIAN OSBON, Was Examined and Testified as Follows: EXAMINATION BY MR. BILL WILLIAMS: Q. Mr. Osbon, what relationship do you have to this property at 1285 Broad Street? A. It's part of a complex that I own in that 1200 block--1200 block of Broad Street. Q. Do you have a lease agreement with Ms. Tyler? A. Yes. I've got a copy of it right here with me. Q. And does that lease agreement contemplate her opening up a restaurant? A. Yes. Yes, it does. Q. Are there any restrictions on her further use of that property with you as her landlord? A. Yes. When we were approached by Ms. Tyler we were concerned as to the possibility of a tenant misusing any of our property. So we contacted the-- Mr. Patty at the Richmond County Planning and Zoning and we requested from him phraseology that would prohibit the property to be used for anything other than what we intended and also would prohibit it from becoming a distasteful destination. In particular, one of the additions, a stipulation that was suggested by Mr. Patty to prevent it from being an adult entertainment destination it says no adult entertainment allowed as defined by the Augusta- Richmond County zoning ordinance. And we also put in place restrictions as to what could be done outside the building to eliminate unnecessary noise, to be anything that would be destructive or distasteful to the neighborhood. Q. Now, Mr. Osbon, are you familiar with downtown Augusta? A. My father moved into the building in this complex the year I was born, 1940, and I've been there ever since. Q. You are actively involved in the revitalization of downtown Augusta? A. I served for one year as president of Main Street. I'm currently on the Downtown Development Authority. I'm currently serving as president of Augusta Tomorrow, and I'm also a member of the Chamber of Commerce and some other organizations. Q. Are you aware of the feelings of other business owners as it relates to this piece of property being used as a restaurant and having a alcohol beverage license? A. Right. I have been approached by many other business people in the community, very concerned that what happens here may affect long-term use of all the properties in downtown. And, as one told me, if you eliminate all of the liquor licenses in downtown Augusta you might as well, you know, put the fire to it because downtown will be gone. Q. Is it true that downtown Augusta has become more of an entertainment center as opposed to a retail center? A. Right. The thing that's impressed me the most about downtown--and, again, I've been there all my life—is the young entrepreneurs that basically took everything they owned, put it on the table to gamble and they created these really unique destinations, small restaurants, spots. And probably the most impressive thing to me is to come through downtown Augusta on a late evening or perhaps a weekend night and have trouble finding a parking place between 7th and--700 block and the 1100 block of Broad Street. There's a tremendous number of people now coming to downtown Augusta and twenty years ago they did not know downtown Augusta existed. Q. Are you familiar with any other locations that are closer to Curtis Baptist Church that either have a license to sell, on or off premises, alcoholic beverages? A. To my knowledge there is one that's much closer to Curtis Baptist Church located in the--on 13th Street between Broad and Greene Street. Q. And what is that location? A. I don't know the address but it is— Q. No. What is it? A. I'm sorry. What kind of destination is it? Q. Yes. A. It's a location that, I guess, for better purposes it would be described as a convenience store that people go to for gas and bread and milk and beer and whatever else they want to buy. Q. And that's like just across the street from the church; is that not correct? A. That's a stone's throw from the church. Q. And then behind the church are you familiar with the Sacred Heart Cultural Center? A. Yes. Very familiar with it. It's--at one time was a fine Catholic church for many years. Pete Knox, Jr., saved it and has restored it. It's really one of the real prime jewels in downtown Augusta. And I must admit that I had a son to get married there about six weeks ago and I had to sign a check for about $3500 for liquor for the—for the party that was held there. So it is one that is used for a lot of social events. Q. And the only thing that separates that property from Curtis Baptist Church is a street; is that correct? A. One street, yes. Q. How far is your property located from Curtis Baptist Church? A. I would say probably at least five--I'm just guessing, five or six hundred feet. My--the front door of Curtis is somewhere to the--to the east of the middle of the 1300 block and my property is somewhere to the west of the middle of the 1200 block. So it's about a block apart. Q. On opposite sides of the street? A. Opposite side of the street separated by two main thoroughfares, 13th Street and Broad Street. Q. And do you know of any reason why this license should not be granted? A. No. I really don't. Obviously there is no legal problems, and I've heard questions asked about whether or not there's safety and security problems. Frankly, I think those are nonissues. I think that there are simply people who don't like alcohol, period, grasping at straws and simply do not want the license to pass. I'm not a particularly big alcohol proponent, but I'm also a business person and I know what it takes to make businesses work. And I think it's good for Augusta to have these type of destinations in them that take care of the entertainment needs of people who visit Augusta and people who live in Augusta. Q. Ms. Tyler have a substantial amount of money already invested in this property? A. I'm not too sure exactly. She's given me a pretty good bit as far as a deposit, and I understand she's got somewhere around $10,000 tied up in it. She has done a tremendous amount of work. This building was a Goodyear Service Store for about thirty years, and we used it for an antique mart for a while. So it took an awful lot of work to get it to where it can be used, and she's done a lot of work inside it. And it's a big building. It's got, I guess, a little over 10,000 square feet in it. Good-size building. Q. And you understand that the county requires if patrons are going to dance in an establishment, whether it be a restaurant or Sacred Heart church or wherever, that you have to get a--what's known as a dance hall license? A. And that's a little bit of a misleading term. I've been to, not only Sacred Heart, I've been to the Greek church. I've been to many other institutions in downtown Augusta including the Civic Center and Bell Auditorium where there's been dancing and there's been drinking and I guess you'd call them dance halls, but I--you know, I never saw anybody really, you know, doing things that would be considered untasteful. Q. But your lease agreement and, of course, the county ordinance would prohibit-- A. Right. Q. --professional dancing such as we find at the other end of Broad Street? A. Right. We were concerned. The property in the 600 and--500 and 600 block of Broad Street there are some people there that I have no problem with but--and I don't really frequent those places, but I understand that they have entertainment going on that some people would really consider distasteful. But we were concerned that where we were would--could be possibly used in that regard, and that's one of the reasons we--we configured our contract to prohibit that. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: All right. That's all I have. Thank you. MR. OSBON: Thank you. [Mr. Osbon remains.] MR. BILL WILLIAMS: Mr. Mayor, I don't have any other witnesses. I'd just like to make a statement for the record. MAYOR YOUNG: Yes, sir, you may. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: I'd like to suggest to the commission that the denial of this license last time was based on political rather than legal reasons. And I would respectfully suggest to you that the commission is charged in these instances with making decisions based on the law, that is, the state law and your own county ordinance, and that you should not make decisions based on politics. There has been shown no legitimate reason for denying this license other than politics. And I, again, suggest that that's inappropriate. MAYOR YOUNG: All right. Thank you, Mr. Williams. What I'd like to do now is ask any of the commissioners, for point of clarification or whatever, if they'd like to--if they have any questions for any of the witnesses that were called or if you have any questions for any of the folks who spoke on the opposite side at the meeting last week. If you need any clarification from any comments they made I think most of them are here today. Mr. Jerry Brigham? MR. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, I've got several questions I want to ask. I guess I'll start with Mr. Williams, and if he don't know the answers we'll go somewhere else. MAYOR YOUNG: All right. Mr. Williams, will come back around by the microphone so we can all hear. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: If I don't know them I'll make them up. [Mr. Williams takes the stand.] WILLIAM WILLIAMS, Was Examined and Testified as follows: EXAMINATION BY MR. BRIGHAM: Q. Mr. Williams, I'm somewhat concerned about whether this is a restaurant or a bar. Is there anything that you can do to relieve my mind of these fears? A. Commissioner Brigham, I can tell you that it's my understanding that this restaurant will be no different than restaurants like the Green Jacket or Michael's or any other upscale restaurant that has a bar area for patrons to get a drink of whatever, soda water or straight alcohol, if that's what they desire, while they are waiting to be seated. Q. So this--this is--now, if I remember Mr. Osbon's lease correctly he can--this person can operate till 2:00 a.m.; is that correct? A. I don't know about that. I don't know what— MAYOR YOUNG: Where's Mr. Walker? He could answer that. Where's— MR. WALL: Hours of operation that are included in the lease does it allow them to operate until 2:00 a.m.? MR. OSBON: I think that's one of the limitations. It can't go beyond 2:00 a.m. It doesn't mean that it has to operate till 2:00 a.m. We did put in limitations that would restrict it from having an open-ending period. MR. WALL: That's consistent with county code, too. MR. BRIGHAM: I figured it was consistent with county code. My point is I don't know any restaurants that are serving dinner in Augusta, Georgia, at 2:00 a.m., including some of those that we have licensed. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know that it would be any different than any other restaurant that's allowed to do that. I don't think any of them stay open, like you say, till 2:00 a.m., but I guess if they wanted to they could. MR. OSBON: This is basically an older crowd and if they're like me they're going to be in bed asleep by ten o'clock anyway. So I don't know that it's going to be that busy that late. Q. [Mr. Brigham] Well, these are some of the concerns that I have, and I'm wanting to get a feel for your client's situation. A. Well, my client has informed me that her business is going to be that of a restaurant and she wants to be able to serve alcoholic beverages like most other restaurants in this community do. It's not a bar. It's not a lounge. It is a restaurant that's going to have a bar in it. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: If I'm wrong now, Ms. Tyler, you tell me. Is that correct? MS. TYLER: You're right. And there is other restaurants, the Word of Mouth stays open till two o'clock. There are other restaurants in the neighborhood there. MR. BRIGHAM: There is a number of restaurants that stay open in this town till 2:00 a.m. that are not necessarily serving meals, in my opinion. Q. [Mr. Brigham] The other question that I had is what percentage— MR. BRIGHAM: Maybe I need to ask Ms. Tyler this. Do you have a business plan that gives us a percentage of your business that's going to be related to alcohol? MS. TYLER: No. I don't guess--we would do a lot of our--we're going to have--there'll be a salad bar and a soup bar in town and a lot of our business will come from lunch. And we do plan to have like a early dinner and then a later dinner. There's a lot of young people that live downtown that like to eat later, maybe nine, ten, and eleven o'clock. And we have no idea yet. MR. BRIGHAM: But you don't have any projections as to what percentage of your sales will be alcohol? MS. TYLER: We have no way of projecting that. I mean it's--the restaurant at first will be--if we're doing lunch and--you have to build a night business or the dinner business. We know we'll get the luncheon business. MAYOR YOUNG: With all due respect, Ms. Tyler, I believe you're applying for Sunday sales. And you have to show that more than half of your income is going to be from food to have Sunday sales. MS. TYLER: It will be. MAYOR YOUNG: So I think, in all fairness, you have to make some kind of a projection in your business plan and you need--I think Commissioner Brigham is trying to find out what that projection is. MS. TYLER: Well, I'm sure 60 percent of our sales will come from food— MAYOR YOUNG: Okay. MS. TYLER: --because we will do a large luncheon business. We know that. MAYOR YOUNG: Okay. Anything further, Mr. Brigham? MR. BRIGHAM: No. That's— MAYOR YOUNG: All right. Mr. Cheek, did you want to hear— MR. CHEEK: Just a— MAYOR YOUNG: --from some others? MR. CHEEK: --question. I've heard--last week I saw a chart that showed the business on the diagonal where the church and the walk--walk to the business down around the end of the block. It is not diagonally across. And I've heard 800 feet and today I've heard somewhere just over 400 feet apart. What is the actual distance between the two? MR. OLIVER: Mr. Walker or Mr.— UNIDENTIFIED MALE VOICE: 841 feet. MR. CHEEK: 841 feet. UNIDENTIFIED MALE VOICE: Certified plat done by a surveyor. MAYOR YOUNG: Okay. Mr. Bridges? MR. BRIDGES: Yeah. If I could address Mr. Williams, Mr. Mayor. MAYOR YOUNG: Yes, sir. MR. BRIDGES: Mr. Williams, what were the legal reasons you--in your closing you cited for allowing this? MR. BILL WILLIAMS: What were the legal reasons for— MR. BRIDGES: Yes, sir. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: --allowing it? MR. BRIDGES: Yes, sir. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: I think as far as y'all are concerned if a business and the applicant meet the criteria established by the Richmond County code and by the state of Georgia, unless there are some other reasons given to you that would demonstrate that that business is going to affect the welfare or the safety of the community I don't believe you have any real choice about what you should do. And that was my comment, that I didn't--you know, I understand that the church is opposed to it. And I made the comment--and I wasn't trying to be cute--that if the folks adhere to the doctrine of the church they should be opposed to any alcohol ever being sold again in Richmond County anyplace. So that's not an issue. I mean you've got to separate— MAYOR YOUNG: Let him speak. All right. Please let him speak. He's responding to a question. MR. BRIDGES: But, Mr. Williams, didn't—you represented a client for McDade and Old Waynesboro Road that was seeking an alcohol license. Didn't you make those same arguments during that— MR. BILL WILLIAMS: Mr. Bridges, I made them in front of you, I made them in front of Judge Fleming, and I made them in front of seven supreme court justices in Atlanta. MR. BRIDGES: How did that case turn out for you? MR. BILL WILLIAMS: Unfortunately, prior to us taking that case us some other cases had gone ahead of us that were--had not been properly and thoroughly presented and there was precedent that the Court had agreed that the ordinance was constitutional and I vehemently disagree with them. MR. BRIDGES: That case did not turn out in your favor, did it? MR. BILL WILLIAMS: You are absolutely correct. MR. BRIDGES: And, Mr. Mayor, I would like to present that the arguments that we've made in the past at the previous meeting, Jim, were the same arguments against giving that--the alcohol license to this establishment that stood up in court. It has stood up in court in the past. We're consistent with our past practice, and I think we should be consistent at this point. Thank you, Mr. Williams. That's all. MAYOR YOUNG: Mr. Wall, just for the record would you want to restate those reasons? MR. WALL: At the last meeting we cited three reasons that are contained in the Augusta-Richmond County code, section 6-2-65, and specifically it was the location as to the--and these are discretionary criteria: the location for which the license is sought as to traffic congestion, general character of the neighborhood, and the affect such an establishment would have on the adjacent and surrounding property values. The second one was the number of licenses in the trading area and there was comment made at the last commission meeting about the other alcohol licenses that were in the area. And then the third area was the congregation of minors in the area, and, again, there was comment at the last commission meeting concerning the location of the school and the ongoing programs at the church and seven days of the week, et cetera. MAYOR YOUNG: Thank you, Mr. Wall. Mr. Shepard? I'm sorry. You wanted to follow up on that? MR. BRIDGES: Can I follow up— MAYOR YOUNG: Yes, sir. MR. BRIDGES: --with what Mr. Wall said? MAYOR YOUNG: All right. MR. BRIDGES: So, Jim, the idea that there are other alcohol licenses in that area is an argument that we're not denying anybody alcohol in that trading area; is that correct? MR. WALL: That's correct. MR. BRIDGES: All right. Thank you. MAYOR YOUNG: Mr. Shepard? MR. SHEPARD: Mr. Mayor, maybe Mr. Williams or Mr. Walker could state what the distance requirements are. We've heard that they've been met, but as far as a separation between these schools and churches and youth centers what are our requirements? MAYOR YOUNG: Mr. Walker, would you respond to that, please? MR. WALKER: The distance requirement for a lounge or bar or a package shop is 300 feet or 100 yards. A restaurant, a full-fledged restaurant, does not under our ordinance have to meet a distance requirement. But this one is beyond the normal 300 feet anyway. MAYOR YOUNG: What about a dance hall? Is there a distance requirement— MR. WALKER: No, sir— MAYOR YOUNG: --for a dance hall? MR. WALKER: --there's no--no, sir. MAYOR YOUNG: Okay. All right. Mr. Shepard, go ahead. MR. SHEPARD: One other question, Mr. Mayor. What about the character of the streets, Broad Street and 13th Street? I think we know they're multilane facilities. What is the difference, if any, between those and the case Mr. Williams took up on McDade Road, if any, Mr. Williams? MR. BILL WILLIAMS: What's the difference? MR. SHEPARD: Uh-huh. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: I mean I would assume the major difference is that Broad Street and 13th Street are major thoroughfares and in the Richardson case I don't think it was McDade Road. It was Old Waynesboro Road. MR. SHEPARD: Well, I was relying on— MR. BRIDGES: McDade and Old Waynesboro. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: Obviously less traffic. Much, much less traffic. And I don't know that there are any traffic controls out there where this particular site was as opposed to the traffic controls that permeate Broad Street in downtown Augusta. MAYOR YOUNG: Mr. Bridges? MR. BRIDGES: Mr. Walker, the distance requirement that you're speaking of is 100 yards; is that correct? MR. WALKER: Yes, sir. MR. BRIDGES: Is that as the crow flies? MR. WALKER: No, sir. That's from the—the travel way. In other words, you go out the front door of an establishment, down the sidewalk, across the street, the normal way you walk. MR. BRIDGES: In other words, what you're telling me is two business--a church and a alcohol-licensed store can sit 10 feet away from each other, but if they're walkways and sidewalk was long enough they could--they would meet the legal requirements as— MR. WALKER: Yes, sir. MR. BRIDGES: --our code has it? MR. WALKER: Going down the normal travel way, yes, sir. MR. BRIDGES: Do you remember one time I asked you— MR. WALKER: It was— MR. BRIDGES: --to measure the distance out the front door of the bottom floor of this building as someone would walk to the back door of this building? MR. WALKER: At it met the requirements. MR. BRIDGES: Do you remember? MR. WALKER: Yes, sir, I remember. MR. BRIDGES: Do you remember how many yards it was? MR. WALKER: No, sir, I don't. MR. BRIDGES: It was 172 yards. MR. WALKER: Yeah. I remember. MR. BRIDGES: And, Mr. Mayor, the point I'm making is that according to the distance requirement, which is a copy of the state law, you could operate-- if you put up a 2 by 4 partition on the bottom floor in the lobby down there you could operate a church out of the back and a alcohol-licensed building out of the front and you'd be perfectly within the legal requirements of the 100-yard distance because it's 172 yards. And that's why this commission has such a hard time--we get in situations like this. The ordinance is not fair. It's not proper. There are a lot of situations that you can come up with that aren't reasonable. And we've tried to change them in the past. But I think we're completely within our rights as the commission and as the--the items and the-- the items that the attorney has mentioned, I think we're completely within our rights to deny this license. MAYOR YOUNG: Thank you. Any further comments or any questions? Do the commissioners want to hear from anyone else? All right. The chair will entertain a motion on this appeal. According to our attorney the proper procedure is either a motion to uphold the appeal, which would grant the license, or a motion to deny the appeal, which would end the process right here. Gentlemen, what's your pleasure? MR. MAYS: Mr. Mayor— MAYOR YOUNG: Mr. Mays? Yes, sir. MR. MAYS: Mine is not to make a motion, but it is to--I know this is the appeals process, but I guess in the point of fairness or due process, since we're putting folk on the witness stand, in reference to allowing whether it's in terms of time of rebuttal or time of statement to the original folk who were against the petition, and I believe they were represented by a spokesperson. And whether that's in the proper language of the chair for the opposite side to be recognized during the process of appeal inasmuch as we've heard the petitioner call upon three to four different folk in order to make testimony. MAYOR YOUNG: Well, Mr. Mays, this is an appeal process. It's not a public hearing. But if you'd like to get one of the objectors to come forward and answer some questions or clarify some points for you certainly the chair would entertain that. MR. MAYS: I'll yield— MAYOR YOUNG: Would you like to do that? MR. MAYS: I will yield my time then, I guess, to the pastor in reference to making those statements. MAYOR YOUNG: Reverend Harris, would you come up front by the microphone? Please. They're having court at the other end of the hall so we're going to please have to hold it down in here. Thank you. [Reverend Harris takes stand.] REV. HARRIS: Commissioner Mays, I thank you for the opportunity of allowing— MAYOR YOUNG: The commissioners get five minutes. REV. HARRIS: Commissioners get five minutes. Okay. Well, I'm going to have to fly then. All I'd like to say to you as the commission as you deal with this appeal process is over the last couple of weeks, I think, all of us have listened as various entities have tried to frame this issue. And I just want to share with you as you make your final decision today as a commission on this issue that you understand from the position of Curtis Baptist Church and those that are standing with us today that we want you to understand what we really see as framing this issue. First of all, we want you to know that this is not an issue about the support for downtown. It's an issue about safety, security, and good common sense, just like we shared before. Curtis Baptist Church supports downtown Augusta. We support it with our ministry to the needs of people. We support it with our money. Do you realize that Curtis Baptist Church brings people downtown every week, often several times a week, from as far away as Aiken County, Jackson, South Carolina, Thomson, Georgia, Warren County? In fact, are you aware that we bring more people downtown from a larger area than this one restaurant will ever bring to downtown? And, by the way, gentlemen, I want you to understand our support is for real, regardless of the vote on one establishment, unlike the threats I've read over the last two weeks. I reference from the Metropolitan Spirit, October 5th, where Mr. Osbon said, and I quote: in fact, I wish I had my money in my pocket because I would walk out of town. Our support is for real. Curtis Baptist Church supports downtown. It is an issue of safety, of security, and common sense. Secondly, the issue is not about revitalization of downtown. It's about respect, respect for a church and a ministry who has been here making a difference for nearly a hundred and twenty-five years. As Commissioner Cheek pointed out, when you weigh out what the church has meant and done in this community for that length of time and what it means to this community against this one establishment with no track record and, obviously today, a number of questions about what they will be or what they will become Commissioner Cheek said you have to come down on the position of the church. As Commissioner Bridges has already pointed out today, nobody is being denied liquor in downtown. As Commissioner Mays pointed out to the record last meeting, that the commissioners have discretion on two clear bases to deny this license. One is saturation. There's already alcohol in that area. And, number two, it is in close proximity to a place where minors tend to congregate. Curtis Baptist School has more than four hundred and fifty students enrolled. We have an active church with hundreds of families, youth and children, week in and week out. It's been said more than once this week that the church should be the conscience of the community, not the governance. Well, ladies and gentlemen, that statement obviously does not understand that the church is not a building. The church is not an organization. The church is the body of Christ. People make up the church. And to say that we are not to be involved in governance is to say give us your money as citizens with your taxes, give us your business in downtown, but keep your convictions, your beliefs, and your opinions to yourself. And that's not what America was based on and I trust that's not what Augusta was built on as well. And, finally, let me say this. This issue is not about power and prestige, but it's about principle. As Commissioner Williams said, and I quote, I'm between a rock and a hard place, but I'm going to continue to go on my faith and vote against the license. Commissioner Richard Colclough and Commissioner Jerry Brigham, you voted to deny this license in public services committee, and then you voted again with the full commission. And we--and we need your support again today. I want you to know that Curtis has not created this media frenzy that we see here today. I haven't called one television station, one radio station, one newspaper over these last two weeks. They have all called me. We've heard the phrase mob rule and how this is not a way to govern. Well, we were contacted-- we have not contacted any churches in the area. In fact, I received a contact from our association that is over forty thousand Southern Baptists in Augusta, and the opportunity was given that a letter be sent to those churches to encourage them to come and stand. I did not pursue that matter, and I'll tell you why. Because I have faith in the system, that from a four-to-zero vote with the public services committee to a six-to-four vote by the full commission, I can only hope that at the end of the day you'll be able to know that you stood, not because of power and because of prestige but because of principle. MAYOR YOUNG: Time is up. REV. HARRIS: It was a good decision in September, and it's a good decision still today. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. MR. MARION WILLIAMS: Mr. Mayor? MAYOR YOUNG: Commissioner Williams? MR. MARION WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, I'd like to call for questions on this— MAYOR YOUNG: Well, we don't have a motion to call the question on, Commissioner. MR. MARION WILLIAMS: I'd like to make a motion that we deny this appeal, that we-- MR. BRIDGES: Point of order or information? MAYOR YOUNG: Yes, sir. MR. BRIDGES: Jim, since this has--this license is being granted--I mean has not been granted previously, the--what happens today if there--it comes to a five-to-four vote? I mean what I'm saying is what we did at the previous— MR. WALL: I mean it takes six votes to grant the license. So without six votes there will be no license issued. But if it--if there is no decision, if it's five-four and no action then it would be brought back to the next commission meeting unless they chose to enter into some type of agreement that that would be considered a denial and go forward which we've done on occasion. MR. BRIDGES: But let me word it this way. We denied the license previously. It's my understanding that this is a reconsideration of that. And those that want the license or make a motion, if they fail in that motion then the previous action— MR. WALL: Stands. MR. BRIDGES: --of the commission stands? MR. WALL: And that's the effect. I mean there's a denial of the license. MR. BRIDGES: If a motion is— MR. WALL: But you do have--by state law there is a right to an appeal. So technically the appellant is entitled to a decision. And a no decision could be brought back before the commission or it could be treated as a denial. If there wasn't a statutory appeal right in there then I would agree with you, but at some point there's got to be a decision, either yea or nay, to grant the appeal. MR. BRIDGES: All right. Let me say this. If the motion is made to deny and that fails today what is the action? MR. WALL: Until there is a motion to grant the appeal and that grant receives six votes then there is no license issued. MR. BRIDGES: So it doesn't really matter what the motion is to deny? MR. WALL: No. MR. BRIDGES: Okay. I'll second the motion. MAYOR YOUNG: All right. Thank you. Discussion? Mr. Jerry Brigham? MR. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, I've got a point to inquire of the attorney. MAYOR YOUNG: Okay. MR. BRIGHAM: Are we limited to either the approval or the disapproval of this motion? Is there anything else we can do if we so choose? MR. WALL: Well, I mean, yes. They've applied for alcohol sales, both liquor, wine, and beer. Those are three separate licenses. They've applied for a dance hall and they've applied for Sunday sales. So you could grant, you know, some--the appeal and grant a license for beer and wine, for instance, and deny the dance hall, deny the Sunday sales, and deny the liquor sales if you wanted to or any combination. But there are five different licenses but they're being considered all at one time unless somebody wants to break them out. MAYOR YOUNG: Mr. Shepard, I believe you had your hand up? MR. SHEPARD: Yes, sir, Mr. Mayor. I make a motion that we grant the appeal and approve the licenses as requested. MR. KUHLKE: Second. MAYOR YOUNG: Okay. Let's see. Mr. Kuhlke, you had your hand up? MR. KUHLKE: No. I just seconded. MAYOR YOUNG: Okay. All right. Discussion on the substitute motion? Mr. Kuhlke? MR. KUHLKE: I'd like to make a statement, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Bridges has made a pretty strong argument in regards to another case that really has nothing to do with this. But one of the points he's trying to make is that he thinks we need to change the requirements as far as distance goes. But right now those requirements are where they are. I happen to sit on the Downtown Development Authority. I have a great deal of interest in downtown Augusta and Augusta in general. And I feel like that this is a legitimate business. I feel like that they meet all the requirements. I feel like we as elected officials are charged to uphold the state law and our local laws. And in that regard I feel that we will be shirking our responsibility if we don't support this particular investment in our downtown area. So that's the reason that I want to second this motion and I hope my colleagues, the ones that are so inclined, would reconsider their position from the last vote. MR. MARION WILLIAMS: May I call for a question? MAYOR YOUNG: Question has been called. Any further discussion. All right. We'll move—the question has been moved on the substitute motion which is to uphold the appeal. All in favor of the motion to uphold the appeal--and that would, in effect, grant that license--please raise your hand. MR. J. BRIGHAM, MR. WILLIAMS, MR. CHEEK, MR. COLCLOUGH, MR. BRIDGES AND MR. MAYS VOTE NO. MOTION FAILS 4-6. MR. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, I want to put another motion on floor. MAYOR YOUNG: Just a moment. Let me make sure she gets it all down. All right. Are you ready to go ahead, Madam Clerk? CLERK: Yes, sir. MAYOR YOUNG: Okay. Mr. Brigham? MR. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, I want to make a motion to grant the beer and wine license to Off Broadway. Looking for a second. MAYOR YOUNG: All right. Is there a second to that motion? MR. CHEEK: I'll second that. MAYOR YOUNG: All right. And, Mr. Williams, just for the record would you want to respond to that? Is that something that your client wants? MS. TYLER: No alcohol. I mean what is beer and wine? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the difference? MAYOR YOUNG: Just a moment. Let her--if the commission approved a beer and wine license today that's not what you want? MR. BILL WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. We'd be interested in that. MAYOR YOUNG: You'd be interested in that? All right. We have a motion on the floor to approve a beer and wine license for this location. Any discussion on that motion? MR. MAYS: Yes, Mr. Mayor. MAYOR YOUNG: Yes, Mr. Mays. MR. MAYS: And maybe this needs to be in executive session in reference to advice from the attorney. I don't plan to vote for the motion, but we've made a--we made a decision, right, wrong, or indifferent, now three times. Obviously, we're going to deal with a situation one way or the other and I don't think there's any secret passage to this that this is probably going to deal with the point of litigation. I think Mr. Wall, to a point, has to decide in terms of the representation. We turned down a license. We turned down an appeal. Now, if we're granting half of that then to a point I think maybe we need some legal advice to a point as to whether or not we--and I think we ought to be truthful with the folk on both sides. If we're coming out here with a half-cocked situation to where we--we grant half of what we're doing so that it sets a form of precedent for the court to decide that you've done half of it so then you're crippled in terms of your defense. Then I think we ought to say then that we ought not make a defense of the case at all. And I don't blame Mr. Williams. I'd take the half and go into court with it right now. So I think we either need to go in executive session or we need to maybe get a response out here in reference to where that puts us squarely in terms of how we deal with the case because we've turned down in one breath. If we pass this motion it means you deal with half of what you're doing. And then I think then at that point then you don't even need to make a case one way or the other. MR. WALL: Well, Mr. Mays, Mr. Brigham asked me that question earlier today. And my opinion is that you can make that distinction because state law makes the distinction. And the state law makes the distinction insofar as distance requirements insofar as whiskey and insofar as malt beverage and wine. There are different distance requirements. So state law treats whiskey different than it does beer and wine and so, therefore, it was my opinion to Mr. Brigham and it's my opinion that--as I voiced earlier, that there are five different licenses. And you can apply, I think--and I agree it's not clear-cut, but the state law does treat whiskey differently than beer and wine and so, therefore, I think that you can justify treating beer and wine differently insofar as granting the license without creating an argument that well, what's the difference between beer and wine and whiskey. State law says there's a difference because there are different distance requirements. MAYOR YOUNG: Mr. Mays, anything further? MR. MAYS: No. My only point for bringing that was just to get that point of clarification, Jim, into the record. And I think the last time that we dealt with the argument we were dealing with beer and wine but the difference being, which it was referred to--and the only reason I brought it up is because it was referred to as part of what was in that area in terms of the convenience store. And the difference being you're talking about on-premise consumption in one argument and you're talking about off-premise consumption in another argument. And that's the only thing--the reason I wanted to get that clarification into the record. MAYOR YOUNG: Just a point of clarification for the chair's benefit, too, this motion does not include Sunday sales; is that correct? MR. BRIGHAM: It does not. MAYOR YOUNG: Let's see. Mr. Cheek and then Mr. Williams. MR. CHEEK: Mr. Mayor, I've labored over this issue ever since we discussed it several weeks ago. It's been a very hard decision. The initial map that I saw had the appearance that the restaurant was directly diagonal to the church. After going physically to the site I discovered that there was actually a good bit of distance between the two, 800 feet. And clearly if you look from the front of the church to the front of the restaurant it would be hard to distinguish what anyone had in their hand in front of either establishment. The thing that you have to consider through all of this is is there something that would allow a business owner to operate and still meet the needs of the community around it. And I think that this compromise is something that will eliminate the dance hall activities and the Sunday sales, the things that are--have a tendency to attract sometimes people that are maybe not beneficial to the area. This may be a way for us to help to improve Broad Street with another business and also meet the needs of the church and the citizens that do attend that church. MAYOR YOUNG: Commissioner Williams. MR. MARION WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just want a point of clarification and I'm thinking that the applicant could clearly come back and reapply for a beer and wine license at some other time. I think the issue now is whether we denied this license and--that this appeal is on. And I think we need to vote and put down on what we--what has been addressed here and not whether to break it up into different entities or different sections. I think we should either vote up or down on this appeal and if the applicant want to come back and apply that's a whole 'nother day. But I think we need to vote on the issue we've got. MAYOR YOUNG: Thank you, Commissioner. Any further comments? Yes, sir, Mr. Bridges. MR. BRIDGES: Mr. Mayor, the comment I'd like to make is that it doesn't matter whether it's beer or wine or whiskey. It's alcohol, and the purpose of this is alcohol at this location. And for the same arguments that we've made previous in the June decision and in the other decision, those same arguments-- and that we've made here today this morning with the first vote, those same arguments apply to this motion on the floor. MAYOR YOUNG: All right. Thank you. All right. No indication of any comments further so let's move ahead with the vote on the motion from Commissioner Brigham, that is, to approve a beer and wine license for this location. All in favor of that motion please raise your hand. MR. WILLIAMS, MR. COLCLOUGH, MR. BRIDGES AND MR. MAYS VOTE NO. MOTION CARRIES 6-4. MAYOR YOUNG: So the license is approved. Madam Clerk, the next item of business--if y'all— MR. BRIDGES: Point of order, Mr. Mayor— MAYOR YOUNG: Yes, Mr. Bridges. MR. BRIDGES: Is it my understanding that's strictly for the beer and wine and it's not for the dance hall and it's not for— MAYOR YOUNG: That's correct. MR. BRIDGES: --Sunday sales? MAYOR YOUNG: Beer and wine license. The next item of business will be for the Double Eagle Club. If any of you all are not interested in that and want to leave we'll give you a moment to clear the chamber. If you'll do so quietly please, keeping in mind court is in session at the other end of the hall. Thank you for coming. [Brief recess 3:33 - 3:35 p.m.] MAYOR YOUNG: The next item of business, Madam Clerk, would be item number 28. CLERK: Item 28 is a motion to approve a request from Liddell W. "Cissy" Boulus for an on-premise consumption liquor, beer, and wine license to be used in connection with Distinctive Events and Catering at the Double Eagle Club located at 2603 Washington Road. There will be a dance hall and Sunday sales. MAYOR YOUNG: Is the petitioner here? MR. BILL WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. And I'm representing them. MAYOR YOUNG: Have you got your lucky tie on today? Okay. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: I'm doing better. MAYOR YOUNG: Thank you, Bill, Are there any objectors here today? If so, please raise your hand so we can get a count. Y'all just bear with us. We have a little procedure we go through. Dr. Kennedy, you'll be the spokesman for the objectors? Are there any other speakers that you're aware of? DR. KENNEDY: Probably one. MAYOR YOUNG: Okay. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Mayor, I am from the neighborhood— MAYOR YOUNG: Yes, ma'am. You'd like to speak? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A very short speech. MAYOR YOUNG: All right. Fine. For those of you who are standing we have a few more seats up here and some seats over here if you'd like to be seated. This may take a few minutes so we'd like you to be comfortable. Here are some seats over here if you want to sit next to the press. All right. Mr. Walker, would you please come up here and tell us about this application? MR. WALKER: This application for 2603 Washington Road meets all the requirements of the license and inspection department. It has been approved by the sheriff's department, and we recommend approval. MAYOR YOUNG: Mr. Walker, just a point of inquiry from the chair, have alcoholic beverages been served at this location previously? MR. WALKER: Yes, sir. On one-day licenses. MAYOR YOUNG: Okay. Thank you. All right. Let's see. Mr. Williams, I'll turn the floor over to you. And let me just say for the benefit of the audience this is a public hearing on this petition. This is not an appeal. So procedure will be a bit different for this than it was for the previous license. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: Mr. Mayor, Commissioners, I represent Ms. Boulus. This location is on Washington Road across the street from the National golf course, Augusta National Golf Course. In the past it has served as a place for many functions, as the mayor asked Mr. Walker. Over the last six or seven years there have been many events that have been held at this property and alcohol has been served, special event licenses. There is no history of any problem with the operation of this business during those times. Now, my client wants to operate basically a catering service at this location and will do it for special events such as wedding receptions, corporate outings, civic club meetings. Primarily it will be active during the Masters, as it always has been, for events, suppers, whatever. It's not going to be a business that is going to be open seven days a week, six days a week, or five days a week. It's not a bar. It's not a lounge. It'll be a place where folks, like we said, can go have a party. If you wanted to have a reunion party or you wanted to have a wedding reception or you wanted to have a civic club luncheons and, I think, right now we've got one civic club that is having their meetings there and having lunch there. And my client intends to try to get them all to start coming up there. So it's not going to be a restaurant. It's not going to be a lounge. It's going to be a place for special events. And it basically has served that function for the last seven years. And I would suggest to you again that there's no reason that I know of that it should not be approved. Thank you. MAYOR YOUNG: All right. Thank you, Mr. Williams. Those who wish to speak in opposition to this let's start with Dr. Kennedy. If you'll come up front and give us your name and address for the record. And then under the commission rules you'll have five minutes. [Dr. Kennedy takes the stand.] DR. KENNEDY: Sandra Kennedy, 309 Lake Horse Drive in Augusta. Mr. Mayor and commissioners, first of all, right off the bat I would disagree with what Mr. Williams said is at that particular facility it has not been in operation doing the things that it's doing now for many years because it hasn't been that long ago when they were trying to occupy part of our facility. And we went to the same route before to keep them from serving alcohol. At that point there was only 8 inches in between us and them. But they have only been in the particular location where they are for about two or three years. So that needs to be corrected. And my understanding maybe about—maybe about five years. But the one thing that I want you to understand is that we are not against the Double Eagle Club. That is not--matter of fact, I believe I would like to have Pastor Harris on my side up here. He did an excellent job presenting his thing and I could almost say ditto to everything he said because the issues are the same. It's a matter of principle, it's a matter of safety, it's a matter of security, it's a matter of common sense, and it's a matter of neighborhood. We are not in a downtown area. We are in a neighborhood. We have a neighborhood across the street from us, the Vineland subdivision. We have a neighborhood behind us of more than two thousand homes from Lake Olmstead all the way up to the National Hills Shopping Center. And the Double Eagle Club is just a few yards beyond the 100-yard requirement. And I did not even know that they had been serving alcohol before. Matter of fact, there are a group of us that had planned to attend the hearing on October the 9th, and we discovered that morning that the meeting had been canceled and that there had been a meeting held on October the 5th with the announcement that the subcommittee had approved the alcohol license. That was news for us because we had planned to attend on October the 9th. Now, I want to commend the commission for—you have been trying to upgrade our city, to beautify our city. I appreciate the things that you've been trying to do and I am particularly happy that you're trying to establish a city of character. Well, we're standing today for the moral character of the city. We are in a location where we have had to deal with alcohol before. We're in a-- just a couple of years ago we had a death of a teenager right in our driveway. And that will kind of get your attention when someone's killed right literally in your driveway there on Washington Road. I do believe that our church, we meet basically every single—something going on every single night, including Saturday night. There's something happening almost every night of the week, happening there. We're not talking about a few dozen people; we're talking about hundreds of people. You're talking about a Sunday license. We're talking about thousands and more people who are in our services on Sunday mornings and I believe that we're here today to lift up some standards in this city and to try to help you understand there are enough locations on Washington Road already that serve alcohol that I do not believe we need to add another one. And I don't think just because the rights for somebody to be able to come and say we meet the requirements does not mean that you need another establishment and that you need to keep increasing the fact that you just want to keep swamping us and saturating us with alcohol. And so that's the stand that we're trying to take. We're trying to be a part of the community there. We are, as I said earlier, aware of the boundaries and that the Double Eagle Club does really meet those boundaries. If we had known that the Double Eagle Club intent--what it was when they requested a parking variance to pursue an alcohol license we would have opposed that particular thing that they were trying to do. We're here because, as I said, we are a part of a neighborhood. We believe it's the place of the church to stand and to speak on behalf of it. And I think there's one bumper sticker all of us could agree with, and that's the one that says, pray for me, I drive on Washington Road. And so we're trying to make Washington Road a little bit safer and not bring right there in our backyard more alcohol and to put--if you have ever seen the Double Eagle Club, it also has in front of it all of the trees that now have been put up. They have a fence up; they have trees up. And the entrance and exit to that particular facility is so marked that you can hardly see coming and going out of it. And if there's anywhere you need to be able to see clearly somebody coming and going on it's Washington Road. And so we're just not interested in bringing something else where we have to be concerned about our children--not only our children, us, ourselves. And so those are the kind of things that we're trying to say. We know they're a private club— MAYOR YOUNG: Time's up. DR. KENNEDY: --we understand that. We also understand they're talking about a dance hall. We also understand they're talking about leasing it out for public facilities and who is in control of those. MAYOR YOUNG: Thank you. Let's see. Who else wanted to speak? Yes, ma'am, if you'll come forward. MS. ELIZABETH JOHNSON: I'm a senior citizen. You've got to give me time. MAYOR YOUNG: Yes, ma'am. Now, this does not count against your five minutes. MS. JOHNSON: If y'all can hear me I can stand right here— MAYOR YOUNG: Well, that'll be fine. If you'll give us your name and your address for the record. MS. JOHNSON: Elizabeth Johnson. 1014 Magnolia Drive and have lived in that neighborhood fifty-three years. MAYOR YOUNG: All right. MS. JOHNSON: And I'm speaking as a property owner and I just wanted to say that we who I represent--and I represent the people in the neighborhood and have a petition here signed by some who signed the petition and we just respectfully request that the liquor license that has been applied for and the Sunday sales be denied. We've maintained our houses for years and years and those of us in the upper part of Magnolia have lived there from the very beginning and we have tried everything possible to preserve it as a residential character neighborhood. And where we live that has not been easy. But it's--we were doing this even before the Washington Road became commercial. And our homes represent a lot and a tremendous investment for us, and we're just trying to keep that investment up and protect it. We would be opposed to Sunday sales of liquor. We would be opposed to a dance hall atmosphere. We want a peaceful and quiet neighborhood. We're opposed to the congestion and to the safety and to the traffic movement. And I have to give you a little history here. There have been other places there before the Double Eagle was put there in the same location, and they had games, pinball. There's also been an adult bookstore years ago. And you would come home at about ten o'clock at night and when you'd get in the middle of Magnolia Drive you'd turn off right there where the Green Jacket used to be, and people would be all milling all around. And when you got down to my house, which I'm five houses down now, when you got to my house people were lined all over our lawns, sitting all over our curbs, all kind of people and young people. And then you'd come down the street and somebody would be blocking it. And I remember one night my husband started to say something and he looked at the man and the man gave him some kind of sign, I said, don't make eye contact. Don't make eye contact anymore, and let's just go home. But we've had a time with all of that and we want to talk about the parking. I know they have a parking lot there. I'm aware of that. But people who come to things, they're going to park where they can find a place. They're going to get out when they can get out. And Magnolia Drive is just right there and they park down the street. And that can be a problem for all of us. And there have been disturbances and noise and this is the kind of thing that I speak for today for the older section of Magnolia Drive and also for the neighborhood association as well. I'm just adding that into it 'cause we are members of that. Thank you very kindly. MAYOR YOUNG: Thank you. If you would bring your petitions up and give those to the clerk we'll make those a part of the record. Is there anybody else who wanted to speak in opposition to this? Yes, sir. If you'll come up and give us your name and address for the record. MR. ANDERSON: My name is Miles Anderson. I live at 295 Ashton Woods Drive in Martinez. I'm a member of Whole Life Ministries. One of the things I really wanted to address here is the safety aspect of putting an establishment at the--at this location on Washington Road. If you would drive by there you would see that both exits and entrance from this establishment empty onto Washington Road just a short distance from the red light at that intersection. And there are hedges on the Washington Road side and then on the Azalea Drive side there's a fence. Now, anybody coming out of there under the influence of alcohol, you know, it would immediately shorten the response time of anybody that have to stop for them. And having to stop for a person that close to the red light would almost guarantee a multiple car accident for people if you know the volume of traffic on Washington Road. One of the other things that Mr. Williams said was that this is a special event establishment. Well, we know that they're trying to rent this place out. He made the statement that they're trying to get other--other organizations to come down there and have lunch. Well, it's my contention in the American way of doing business if you can get somebody down there every day you will. So you have to realize that they're going to try to increase the volume of business. All right. Now, the people that they're going to rent to are people that--to the public. It's supposed to be a private--from my understanding it's a private establishment, but they're going to rent and lease to the public. So they have no control over the clientele. Okay. They have no--no say-so over what the people do once they rent this thing. So, you know, we're opening ourselves up to on Sundays or anytime of day, just the people coming out of there, you know, and causing accidents. Azalea Drive is the main entrance into the neighborhood. We've mentioned they have over two thousand residents in that neighborhood. You know, what we're introducing here is a safety factor for people getting to and from their homes. You know, no one in America should have to go a different way to get home because they fear safety. Now, what we're asking here is for you to consider the general welfare of the public. Okay. And even--they talk about on Washington Road where they're serving alcohol during the Masters. At that time why introduce a facility that would put more people into that environment that are under the influence of alcohol, either driving or walking? So my opinion is that, you know, you would take into consideration--I'm asking that you would take into consideration the location of the facility and the general safety of the neighborhood and the general safety of citizens in general going up and down Washington Road. There's no way that you can guarantee that, you know, for a person coming out of there--in other words, they have only maybe 3 or 4--maybe 5 feet at the most, a person leaving that establishment to see the road. Okay. And if he's not looking clearly and goes out there, you know, it shortens the response time for him to even try to, you know, prevent himself from going out into oncoming traffic. So we are asking you commissioners, you know, to consider that we're asking--we're citizens asking you to look out on our behalf, you know, consider our general safety while traveling up and down Washington Road, consider our general safety about putting more people under the influence of alcohol in an already volatile situation and dangerous situation that can cost the life of someone. Take a look at the residents in this room. Take a look at the people that goes to Whole Life to church, people that live in that neighborhood. Which one of their lives would you want to put on the line? Thank you. MAYOR YOUNG: All right. Is there anyone else who'd like to--do you want to add anything to the conversation? MR. BILL WILLIAMS: I just want to clear up a couple of points, Mr. Mayor. MAYOR YOUNG: All right. MR. BILL WILLIAMS: Have y'all got a plat showing the property? I think Mr. Walker's office may have a plat. This property has an entrance on Washington Road and it also has an entrance on Azalea Drive. So--and the traffic flow that historically has been adopted up there is that folks can come into the property off of Washington Road and then they're directed out to Azalea Drive back to Washington Road where there's a traffic control device. And this plat that Mr. Harris handed me shows that. And there's off-site parking. When my clients have special events and if the license is approved and they're allowed to operate this business they'll have a valet service that will actually park cars. And if there's a need for the off-site parking then the valet service will park the cars there. So this business poses no more traffic hazard to Washington Road than any other business, whether it be a Laundromat or a book store, shopping center, or, for that matter, a church. Thank you. MAYOR YOUNG: Commissioners? Any comments from the commissioners? Do we have a motion? Mr. Shepard, yes, sir. MR. SHEPARD: Thank you. Mr. Mayor, how many one-day event licenses have been granted at this location in the past? Do you know? MAYOR YOUNG: Mr. Walker, could you respond to that? MR. WALKER: Seems like there was seven at one time. Seven at one time during Masters weeks they've— MR. SHEPARD: That would be for each day of the Monday through Sunday— MR. WALKER: Monday through Sunday Masters week, yes, sir. MR. SHEPARD: Have there been any other times— Mr. WALKER: Without the records I couldn't tell you right off, sir. I'm sure there have been, but— MR. SHEPARD: If this license is denied the individual renters of this place could still come forward and apply for individual event licenses— MR. WALKER: Yes, sir. MR. SHEPARD: --and that would just continue the practice? MR. WALKER: Yes, sir. MAYOR YOUNG: Mr. Mays? MR. MAYS: Yes. Mr. Mayor, I guess to follow-up on the question that Steve just asked, I think it shows somewhat a tolerance level that both the neighborhood and the church has had because I can remember--and I think that it's no secret the church and the neighbors and the petitioner all know where they are in terms of the size and the location of Washington Road and also what we bring into there one week during April. I can't remember from the standpoint of where on the one-day licenses during the Masters season--I think that's been a tolerated period from the standpoint that even the church has not opposed the one-day license period. But I think what you're getting into is that when you're changing from the one-day license period to a permanent location and I think that's what's brought about the opposition level. So I think there is a tolerance level that's there probably in one of the busiest neighborhoods in America during that particular week. And yet you've not heard one bit of opposition over those years, not just with this location but I think you can check your records and you'll find that other places, small and large, that ask for one-day event license and they have been tolerant in those locations to a point of where maybe they might have been closer than they are now. But we didn't get any opposition in terms of that being one day because of what was going on and because that would be a controlled situation at least as best that it was going to be in and out of there in a seven-day period. And I just wanted to make that observation for the record to a point that it's not been a condition of intolerance, but it's been one of tolerance to where they've not opposed that on any occasion. MAYOR YOUNG: All right. Thank you, Mr. Mayes. Gentlemen, what's your pleasure? Mr. Brigham? MR. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, I've got a couple of questions I want to clear up in my mind. So, for my benefit, is this a restaurant license or a caterer's license— MR. WALKER: It's a caterer's license. Basically they're going to catering and having private catering events there. MR. BRIGHAM: It's a caterer's license. It's not for a seven-day-a-week— MR. WALKER: No. MR. BRIGHAM: --operation? MR. WALKER: No. MR. BRIGHAM: And— MAYOR YOUNG: This will be similar to the Club House? MR. WALKER: Similar to the Club House. That is correct. Same kind of license that the Club House got. Yes, sir. MR. BRIGHAM: So a caterer's license just allows them to sell alcohol when--or when they're having certain events if they want--if their clientele so request? MR. WALKER: Yeah. That's right. MR. BRIGHAM: Motion to approve. MAYOR YOUNG: We have a motion to approve. Is there a second to the motion? MR. KUHLKE: Second. MAYOR YOUNG: We have a second. All right. Commissioner Williams. MR. MARION WILLIAMS: Well, I wanted to make a comment. MAYOR YOUNG: Yes, sir. MR. MARION WILLIAMS: Mr. Brigham was talking about the seven days a week as a caterer. But if we--if we approve this license and they are fortunate enough to have business seven days a week it's going to be just like a restaurant, I mean, if they're set up to do that. They're going to be able to serve alcohol anytime that, you know, they're catering. So I just wanted it clear that even though they're not applying for a restaurant-type license, but if they've got the business, if they're open, they're going to be able to serve seven days a week. Is that right? MR. WALKER: Yes, sir. If they have the license. MR. MARION WILLIAMS: Okay. I just wanted to clear it up and bring I out. MAYOR YOUNG: Any further discussion on the motion? Yes. Mr. Shepard. MR. SHEPARD: Mr. Mayor--if they have this license, Stewart, would they need to come back for one-day licenses anymore? MR. WALKER: No, sir. They will not. MR. SHEPARD: And this would put them on the same footing as the Club House down the street? MR. WALKER: The Club House down the street and the other licenses— MR. SHEPARD: Are there any others like that on Washington Road other than the Club House? MAYOR YOUNG: Plantation House. MR. WALKER: Plantation House but I don't think it's open now. But that was— MAYOR YOUNG: Well, I was at a function there about three weeks ago, yeah. Anything further, Mr. Bridges? MR. BRIDGES: Yeah. Mr. Mayor, I think the point Mr. Mays made is a very good point. These people have not complained as long as the one-day temporary license was granted. It's when it goes into full-time operation that they've complained. And this is a residential area. It joins a residential area. I'd like to point out to this commission that we have denied alcohol, beer or wine-- really beer or wine licenses on an establishment that was at the entrance to a residential area, that being the Sand Ridge community off of Tobacco Road. So it would be consistent with us to deny this license. I think the issue that the lady raised from the neighborhood association concerning the overflow crowds in their yards and the issue that it raises with the congregation--and that congregation of the public in private places, I think that's something that we need to be concerned with. I think we need to protect the integrity of a neighborhood and I will make a substitute motion we deny the license. MR. MARION WILLIAMS: Second. MAYOR YOUNG: Who seconded that? CLERK: Mr. Williams. MAYOR YOUNG: Mr. Williams. Okay. All right. Any further discussion? MR. CHEEK: Mr. Mayor? MAYOR YOUNG: Yes, sir, Mr. Cheek. MR. CHEEK: Thank you, Mr. Mayor— MAYOR YOUNG: Speak up so we can all hear you, please. MR. CHEEK: The National Hills area over there is one of the highest voter turnout areas in the city. I say that not for an election, but for the fact that those are active neighbors in a very beautiful neighborhood that they are struggling against the commercialization to preserve. And I would hope that we would support those neighbors who have maintained their property values through over fifty years, who have actually seen those property values increase because of the quality of life they maintain there. All of us tolerate the one week a year, the traffic, and all the other things. It's a part of the festival atmosphere that comes with the Masters. But to have that allowed perhaps many, many nights a week, many, many weeks a year would be an intrusion on this neighborhood. And I have similar types of establishments on the edge of neighborhoods that are in my district and my neighborhood itself has one, and it has never been a contributing benefit to the community. And I would hope that we would protect this neighborhood by voting to deny this license. MAYOR YOUNG: All right. Any further discussion? We have a substitute motion on the floor and that is to deny the license. All in favor of the motion please raise your hand. This is to deny. MR. J. BRIGHAM, MR. KUHLKE AND MR. SHEPARD VOTE NO. MOTION CARRIES 7-3. MAYOR YOUNG: So the license is denied. Please. I don't want the bailiff hauling us all off. All right. The commission--the commission is going to take a ten-minute recess as we move up to our chambers on the eighth floor. [Recess at 3:59 p.m.]