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HomeMy WebLinkAbout07-12-2000 Joint Meeting JOINT MEETING COMMISSION CHAMBERS July 12, 2000 Augusta Richmond County Commission and the Augusta Aviation Commission convened at 3:00 p.m., Wednesday, July 12, 2000, the Honorable Bob Young, Mayor, presiding. PRESENT: Hons. Beard, Bridges, H. Brigham, J. Brigham, Cheek, Colclough, Mays, and Williams, members of Augusta Richmond County Commission; Skinner, McIntyre, Drew and Wilhelmi, members of Augusta Aviation Commission. ABSENT: Hons. Kuhlke and Shepard, members of Augusta Richmond County Commission. Also present were Ms. Bonner, Clerk of Commission; Mr. Oliver, Administrator; and Mr. Wall, Attorney. Mr. Mayor: …you all might want to bring us up to date on the Commission about how we got to the point where we are today, just take a few minutes to give us some background and then let’s kind of talk about some of these concepts, and really, what you all would like to see out there, if you had the wherewithal do what you wanted to do. Mr. Skinner: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. [inaudible] based on the cost [inaudible] pay for it, what would be the plan [inaudible]. We would like to do these things. We would like to have a [inaudible] we ran into that problem with the parallel runway and to the wetlands. That was the real problem and we have resolved some of that. [inaudible] Some of these things that we are trying to do are really very costly. I’ll agree that I think would be excellent for the community. [inaudible] justify $15 million to $20 million [inaudible] The underwriting difference between that and where we are going [inaudible]. Don’t want to appear negative on why we shouldn’t consider this, but we do have something like $200,000 in payment. Savannah has [inaudible], Macon maybe a [inaudible] terminal, $68 million terminal. We’re looking at less than a third of that number. If we can afford it. We would like very much to build a bigger terminal [inaudible]. As you know, we just signed a contract with LPA to go ahead with the engineering plan [inaudible]. I can’t disagree with him [inaudible] Certainly appreciate the opportunity for this hearing and we’re glad to have the interest shown by the August Commission [inaudible]. It is a vital project for the city. Without a good airport, I think the city will not grow. And we [inaudible] for years [inaudible] do something out there. We need to encourage more of our citizens to use the airport home, so I think we’re prepared, Mr. Mayor, we do have these two members who are here to talk about the financial end and also talk about the terminal itself and you can ask any questions that you Commissioners might 2 have and we’ll go through an explanation from LPA on where we are at this point and [inaudible], so we’re prepared to give you any information. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Skinner. Why don’t we hear from the LPA group? If you could kind of tell us where we are in the process, and why we’re using the design that we are, and what it would take to change that, and, if indeed, in your professional opinion, you think that some of these issues that we’ve brought up are worth reconsideration. Whoever would like to take that -- and as y’all come up, please give your name for the record, please. Mr. Anderson: Actually if I could I did bring a few exhibits. Mr. Mayor: That will be fine. We can put them in some of these empty chairs up here. I might mention, while they’re setting this up, that I told the consultants and a couple of members of the Commission, the Airport Commission, before we met together that we’re not trying to micromanage what you’re doing, but yet at the same time we are. We realize that we rely on you folks to take the lead on these things, and probably this is revisiting some ground for you, but at that same time you may have some new members who don’t have the benefit of this background You can just take the mike off the stand, if you want to, up here on the podium, behind you. If you just want to take it off there and talk into it, that will be fine. That will get you on the recorder. Mr. Anderson: For the record, I’m Bob Anderson of LPA. What we have tried to do, we have talked a little bit about some of these discussion beforehand, discussions on Savannah [inaudible], things we have put together for the use of the Airport Commission that looked at Augusta, comparing it to Savannah and also to Columbia, which is another nearby market. And these maps show the comparison of that. Savannah had about 726,000 enplanements back in ’98. This new terminal that y’all saw was built back in ’94. I think it opened in May of ’94. The total terminal complex was about $68.5 million. That included some access roads from the highway. Since then, they’ve also built a large parking garage that’s added to that total, so they’re probably in the $75 million to $80 million range right now. I think the thing that is interesting with this is to see that Savannah is really down here, but the markets that gets a lot of traffic all day, Atlanta, Cincinnati and Charlotte. What they’re also been successful in doing is as the regional gets have become available, is getting other destinations with direct flights, using the capabilities of the aircraft. And you can see that includes places like Dulles in Washington, through United Express; Newark through Continental Express; New York, a couple of the different airports up there, by Comair and U.S. Airways; Dallas, American Eagle, which is more of a western carrier, flying direct out there; Houston, again by Continental Express; and finally Chicago by United. And this pattern is fairly similar to what has been happening in Columbia lately. For markets of your size, it may take a while before some of those flights become available to you. Again, those regional jets are gradually replacing the turbo props. When you get that longer range, the possibility 3 of these direct flights comes on. For comparison, here is Augusta. This was put together from the air service study that you had done two years ago. Again, I think we’ve got you in the right place. The major places that you’re flight to or going to be is Atlanta, Charlotte and Cincinnati, just like your friends in Savannah. As a matter of fact, Cincinnati was one of the targets in that service study that said this might help as far as travel points north. The other areas that were prime targets were Detroit, Cleveland and Newark. And then you can see some of these other destinations again that Savannah has successfully recruited that might be in your future at some time. Again, you’ll see that that Savannah does about 3-1/2 times the travel that you do and actually that gap is growing right now. The other thing to point out is that range that you can get by a turboprop aircraft, it doesn’t get you out to most of these other destinations. You have to be able to [inaudible]. This is the Savannah terminal layout. Just some rough diagrams. The ones that are on their website. The lower floor has four back [inaudible] devices. These are the rental cars. They have some bag offices on either end. Very nice, efficient layout. As planners, we think that’s great. It has one spectacular space, one they call Savannah Square, that has all the concessions that open into it. This is a view down the concourse which is probably a little less highly finished. This is a very nice facility, no doubt about it. In comparison, when we look at your space -- again, a lot of this came off of the forecast. In finding, we looked at short-term, which originally would have been -- this process started actually in 1993. The terminal area study was finished in ’95. I believe we did the schematics in ’98, and the design development portion in ’99, finishing up just the end of last year. So this would have indicated the first point coming up of 1998 with enplanements of about 300,000 people. It also indicates a target of 330,000 in 2003 and over 450,000 in 2013. So these are the numbers that are used for sizing all components in your terminal. They do reflect a good deal of growth. The other thing I would point out here is that some of the plans have been initiated over the last couple of years. I think in ’97 this work at the loop road was done, these parking lots were added, I believe it was last year this other roadway work was done, and the remaining pieces in the terminal are still in the program right now. As far as the layout for aircraft and the apron, this accommodates up to six simultaneous aircraft. Right now we are showing the use of two bridges that can serve two positions by a swing position. We also recently looked at some of the costs it would take to add additional bridges to have four bridgeable positions off of this. Again, the major cost there is adding that jet bridge. Roughly half a million dollars apiece. For the layout, they’re at about the 800,000 level and I think it would be helpful [inaudible], they have four bag claim devices, basically sized for large jets like the MD80. In this layout, we have one device that’s size for the MD80, one that’s size for the regional jets with a capability of matching that depth, so again with a projection 20 years forward of half their traffic you have got half their [inaudible]. As far as the concourse area, it’s more consolidated. Rather than sort of having Savannah Square and a concourse beyond, we tried to use the apron layout, taxi-way layout, etc., as far as we possibly could, while maximizing its use. You have concessions combined with that holding area. It’s a very good arrangement for maximizing the income from those people. The one real constraint, if there is one in 4 the plan, is by trying to work with the existing location. We had to balance how much of the needs for the airport for administration and so forth over that coming time period versus what was logical to provide for future airlines. This is basically based on that market service study that indicated you have a good possibility of recruiting someone. I think their top prospect was Continental, looking for service to that Newark market, would serve a lot of the northeastern markets. And as far as from the standpoint of quality of space, we tried very much to hit the right notes as far as the size and feel of everything. Let me see if I can give you some indication. In that plan, you see this long connector that joins the portions of the building. That’s about 25 feet clear. That’s very similar to that width that you saw in Savannah running up and down the concourse. If you go to your local mall, you’ll probably see the distance from storefront to storefront is about 30 feet, so this is very much intended to handle large volumes of people. Again, the entry space is -- if you’ve been out to your new welcome center here out on I-20, the volume of that is about the same type of height but only about half as wide as that particular space, so maybe that’s something you can identify with. The scale of this project -- a footprint is not tremendously larger than the building that you have. There’s an awful lot of space that’s not being used, and I think we’ll create a space that’s similar in impact to that Savannah Square, not only out here in the concourse but in the other areas. I think this would be quite spectacular. You’ve got a bank of [inaudible] that’s over 100 feet long and about 12 feet tall. You can imagine what that looks like as far as [inaudible] out there. We did bring this aerial photograph, too, though. As you can see, all your development is going in one area. And there are obviously some large tracts of property available for it, so there’s good and bad. There’s flexibility for building over here. Certainly the cost of -- the cost of need to support that development, road ways, taxi ways, aprons, parking, all the kind of things. Again, Savannah, that’s the one reason that their program is so much different, because they did have to [inaudible]. Mr. Mayor: Do any of the Commissioners have any questions? Mr. J. Brigham: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Yes, Mr. Brigham. Mr. J. Brigham: My first question -- let’s go back to the six planes on that side, that one. Is that being done anywhere else? What size city is that being done in and is that a normal practice? Tell me a little bit about that. That looks like an awful lot of planes at one time. Mr. Anderson: Actually, quite a few of the airport designs today try to look at maximizing the number of games that you can support off of a concourse, either by double siding it or by doing things like you see here, using the provisions off of the end. In the current use, you have two [inaudible] that are spaced far apart and everything has kind of sprung out beyond that. At some point in time, that really increases the walking distance, so this idea of bringing something and clustering the 5 airplanes around it actually increases the efficiency of this space. From the airlines’ standpoint, that means that they can all use that same area, all those concessions are very closely concentrated to them and this is actually, I think the way airport design is going from here into the future. Mr. J. Brigham: Okay. I don’t fly a lot. The few times I’ve flown, I’ve never seen two or three planes at one gate. So kind of help me with this a little bit. Mr. Anderson: There are six gate positions. Again, with the six positions that you see around here and basically those four can accommodate the type of narrow- body jets you’ve had in the past, something like the [inaudible] flights, they’re all MD80’s. There are actually six positions. One here, two there, two here, one more here, all sharing that one large common seating area. Mr. Speaker: May I interject something here? Mr. Anderson: Sure. Mr. Speaker: As to how many planes might be at that gate at one time -- Mr. Anderson: One. Mr. Speaker: One. Mr. J. Brigham: That helps a little bit more. Mr. Mayor: It would be nice to have six at one time. Mr. J. Brigham: I didn’t think that was real practice from where I sat, but I didn’t have that many regional carriers, with the way they’re coming in. I mean we may have more than one at the gate at a time, but I was just wanting to make sure. In my mind, it would work. But what I was seeing, it didn’t look like it would work. Mr. Mayor: Commissioner Williams, do you have a question? Mr. Williams: Yes. I’m certainly in support of the new facility. I think it’s very much needed. I did tour the Savannah airport and I was impressed a lot. There are some things that you mention here, and this blue area, you mentioned was kind of an executive type area on the end. Is that right? Mr. Anderson: The blue area that you see there is the existing administration area. This portion of it is currently where the rental car areas are, [inaudible]. So once the rental cars are relocated into the new larger [inaudible], that space would allow for some expansion. Most of that would be taken up by a larger bank of [inaudible]. 6 Mr. Williams: Are these plans set up on a single level? Everything on the ground or is that a two-story? Mr. Anderson: Everything is single out there. Mr. Williams: Okay, so it’s going to be set up on a point of single-level. And I’m thinking, and I’m just hypothetically thinking out loud here, thinking that if we build an airport or build a facility, then if we needed to go up top, would the structure that we’re building be able to accommodate us going to another level if we have to? I mean we’re talking about growth, we’re talking about not being able to build to the capacity we’d like to build, that Savannah built, with the amount of money. Are we setting this building up so that we can, if we need to -- in Savannah, I think we were upstairs and we toured through the concession, that was the executive type offices upstairs, over everything else, where they could have board meetings and whatever and whatever and whatever. And parking naturally is a big thing. And when you’re on the ground with everything on the ground, so to speak, it tends to give us more problem cause we run out of space. And if we needed that space for parking decks, is this building going to be designed so we can add to it if necessary, I guess is my point. Mr. Anderson: You would be able to add to it. If you want to be able to add a second story to it, then you may have to make some changes to that structure, beef it up to allow that to happen in the future. You would have to pay a lot of attention to what that floor height it that might allow another level to occur. Mr. Williams: And that was my point, to be able to think about future growth as in doing something upstairs and building the building so we can, because naturally we are expecting, we are looking for -- being the second-largest city, we are looking for growth to come to Augusta like no other. And we ought to plan for that, I think. So we will be able to accommodate. But if we build a structure where we have almost go to tear it down to get it to hold another level on top of it, then we are spending good money after bad money. So we ought to kind of consider that. So when we build it, then the roof line could be to whatever our specs are, but if we build that building with the concept that one day we are going to have to come in and do something, then we won’t have to do all the modification that we’ve talked about, we are speaking about now. That was just a question I wanted to bring out. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Commissioner Mays and then Commissioner Cheek. Mr. Mays: I just wanted to make sure Mr. Mayor, while the Commissioner was stating that, that he didn’t look over my statement from last year, when we approved this. I’m glad you brought that out, so it wouldn’t look like I was hearing myself ask that same question twice, and I think I might be one of the few crazy people here. But let me say this, Mr. Mayor, first. I think that over the last couple of 7 years, particularly in the last 18 months, that the working relationship, or at least the perception maybe of a bad one, between the City of Augusta, the Mayor and Commission, and the Airport Authority. Whatever may have existed or the perceived perception there. I think that’s grown to a positive basis and I think that everybody in this whole process should be glad for that, and I think you all are to be applauded for working close together on doing some things. Particularly, I think most recently it’s helped with the experience of people being there, and also I think it’s helped with the newcomers that have come on board more recently, in terms of that talent blending together and getting us to the point where we are. So I think now we are at least at a point when we do come together, it’s to see what we can do best in terms of working, as opposed to a conflict on the horizon. And I think that’s good, most of all, for this city. But I asked that question, and I say many times to this Commission, I can’t build a chicken coop, and a lot of times I say it from a green standpoint that what were going to do if we came to that point. I guess what I’m not looking for is that for us to get at the point of expansion, to get wider and wider and wider to a point where we’ve got some space to do it, and if we stay on that one level with that growth, that one end of the terminal to do one thing and the other one to do another. I think that in a small market area, and when you compare us to major cities, that one thing about smallness is that it does have its benefits if the service is good. And if the service is customer friendly. And I think the board -- and I won’t get into that -- but I think you’ve done some steps, one major one, to make it get in that line. But I’m also worried about from the standpoint, Mr. Mayor, that as we move, we need to move together, if we’re seriously talking about growth. And I agree with Mr. Skinner. If we don’t, it’s kind of like a marriage, some things we need to speak now on or kind of forever hold our peace. And I realize that money is that common denominator. But we’ve seen a lot of things in this community, be it the Civic Center, built with all the greatest intentions in the world, where people have come in and have done the scale backs there to a point now where it’s too big to be little and too little to be big. Whether we’re talking about a jail, where we just went to Phinizy Road to deal with it both in the wrong place and the wrong size. We turn around to deal with that on Court order. You know. And I think this one, I’m not saying that we start this deal all over again, but I’m just wondering where that line of demarcation is with the time, and I think that the same folks, the same people, the difference is with the jail, I think we can do anything we want to do with the folks we’ve already got. I think if they’ve got the money and the direction to do that, that can be done. But I think we need to seriously think about that, and Jim, you can rule out of order if I get out of tune with this. But I think that there is a relationship that the board is trying to make in terms of seeking relationships, both in looking and in dealing with airlines. I’ve said from the very start, and I’m glad that this chief executive is trying to take it upon himself, to build a relationship in terms of where we can’t accept the idea that if you build it, that they’ll come. Some things we have to go and we have to recruit, some we have to bring in. And we have to do some creative things. But if we do the creative things, can we bring it if we find the takers? And I think if we’re asked, then are we going to have something that we spent the money in? If we get the $17 million to $18 million and we look back and we say we could have done thus and so for $24 million, then 8 the $6 million to me is real critical to a point of then looking at whether or not you’ve actually maybe again wasted the $17 million, and I think everybody’s intentions in this are good but I think we need to seriously look at that. I think there are some things on this regional basis, whether we share our partners across the water, I think those of us that know folks in the transportation business -- Paul works with a client particularly on ground transportation. Ground transportation folks are eating this idea up. They hope that we don’t grow. In terms of running shuttles, they are about to wear I-20 out, with plans to wear it out even further, of taking folks up and down the road. And I think we need to really look at that from the point that some I think have improved from the standpoint of both the PR and the treatment of folks. We mentioned when we went to meet with the folks in Savannah, that I’m concerned about the fact of how big it is from the standpoint that if somebody has got two $80,000 to $100,000 vehicles sitting there, they’ve got a board of directors meeting in this city, and they drive up, and whether or not that limousine driver has to run a marathon back to a parking lot, because we are not big enough, that he’s got to run cross town to get that limo, bring it back around the circle, maybe because he may not be on the first tier list to pick up folks at the airport. Those are the type of things that I think we need to be looking at that are big enough in that growth to do it. I think it’s a pretty design. It looks good. But whether we’re on the other side of that field, Mr. Mayor, in going up new, or whether or not we need to maybe look at least at what other partnership we can take to -- if there are some serious ideas that cost is our only factor for going where we are, then look prudently at what the difference might make us or where it might take us. Because I think when we came in before, a lot of parameters have changed. We were not then on the map to just be going to the destination of Cincinnati. No knock on Cincinnati, I used to love WKRP. But I think if you ask folks leaving out of Augusta, that their main destination is not Cincinnati, Ohio. It may be Washington, D.C. on governmental business, but they’re going to New York and eventually California. And I think that’s a serious point that where it’s good to get them there, but the hustling of trying to deal with some directs, whether we’re going to use some of the city’s promotional money and economic development to seek some of those lines, I think all that needs to go in, and I think we’ve got the climate now with the two boards that can work wholesomely together to bring that about. And I want to support whatever we do. If we don’t end up with studying the rest of it, I’m not from this point going to say I’m against what you’re doing. But I just think if we take a day or two longer and look at where some of it might not be a final destination and look at some takers that might be out there and see what we’ve got to offer them, when we [inaudible], because in what you did as a decision, I’m not comfortable with unknown situations. Won’t call any names, won’t deal in any personalities, but the exit that you all put together out there, I’m not sure what’s been said in reference to that. I think there’s a healing process that the Mayor is trying is work both with the existing airlines and with new ones. A lot of times, when you let folks go you don’t what the conversation is. And unless somebody is there on a certain level to deal with it, and I think that the interim director is doing a good job in terms of trying to get that done, but I also think that when people are going to land other deals, they are going to be want to know not only what the board is doing, but 9 they want to know what that man is doing and what parts of the government are doing. And I think we’ve got the climate now to deal with that, but I just don’t want to be restricted to where we go with just what money we’ve got. And I’m through with it, Mr. Mayor, but I’m supportive, but I just want to explore it to its fullest capacity. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Commissioner Mays. Commissioner Cheek? Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. What is the current level for this design as far as enplanements? Will this handle the current traffic or twice as much or four times as much? Mr. Anderson: Again, the sizing of that is based on the projection of up to 450,000. Mr. Cheek: So that’s roughly double what we have now? Mr. Anderson: More that double what you have now. Mr. Cheek: Does this design allow us to add an additional concourse at some point in the future to handle additional traffic? Mr. Anderson: Yes. You can expand the concourse out, either the full depth of the building, or just this portion that’s [inaudible], either direction. Mr. Mayor: If you can double the capacity of passengers, where will you double the capacity of long-term parking? Where will that go? Mr. Anderson: The long-term parking, I would like to go back toward where you expect parking to be, closer to the front of the terminal. Mr. Mayor: Where the hotel is? Mr. Anderson: Where the hotel has been historically for quite some time. There may be some proper balance there. Some other interesting things I heard today about possible other uses for the hotel, but maybe there is that right balance of getting more parking that’s closer in to the terminal building. Mr. Mayor: The folks from Newton and Associates, the money people, are here, too, and I’d like to -- I know we’d all like to hear from the money people about what -- what is the capacity of what we’re looking at now as far as being able to fund a project out at the airport? Are we maxed out, given the present plans? Or do we have a cushion here? What are we looking at? For the record, give us your name again. 10 Mr. Garnett: Thank you, Mayor Young. I’m Chris Garnett with Newton and Associates. In December of 1999, we completed a preliminary feasibility study which, at that time, was based on the airport issuing general airport revenue bonds to complete the construction of the project, if that were the direction you take. Based on the information and the revised cost estimates, we have rerun those numbers and we believe the project is still feasible and can still issue general airport revenue bonds, but there is not a lot of increase in the cost that can occur, and still issue general airport revenue bonds, to be quite frank about it. If the city and county are willing to participate, which it sounds like from my understanding is the position of the county Commissioners, then if the county Commissioners were willing to issue to either general obligation bonds or do what’s called a double barrel bond where the county would back the revenues of the airport with its taxing authority, then I think the position would change. Mr. Mayor: Or sales tax money or -- Mr. Garnett: Or sales tax money. There are a bunch of financing alternatives out there. It all depend on how much more is the new terminal going to cost, is what it gets down to. Mr. Mays: Mr. Mayor? Mr. Mayor: Yes, sir? Mr. Mays: May I ask this of either of the gentlemen or Mr. Oliver. Even though it’s airport money, but when we get into the world of bonds, and I guess what concerns me, sitting here as a Commissioner, and we all want this thing to fly, per se, regardless of what we build or what we do, but isn’t it true that whatever one of these worlds we are living in, the lower figure or a larger figure, that even though it may be airport money, in our approval of what we are doing, let’s just say if what we build goes bananas and it’s on the small end, then we’re still obligation as a city in this deal right or wrong; am I correct or wrong in this? Mr. Oliver: Well, I think there’s a double answer to that. If this is issued as a revenue bond, the bond holder only has the right to look to the revenues that are pledged to derive that income. For example, it would require that the landing fees or whatever be increased to cover that. Now in the unlikely event, for example, that all the airlines pulled out of there and there was no revenue at all, then Augusta- Richmond County would have to make a decision as it relates to what kind of moral impact that may have on the bond market. However, there would be no legal obligation to make benefits to the bond holders. Do you concur with me? Mr. Garnett: Yes, I do, Mr. Oliver. 11 Mr. Mays: Maybe I heard something a little different some time ago, but I’m hearing that now, you know. I asked the same question as I asked then, then why are we doing the confirmation. If it’s totally then on the airport’s money and totally on the board, I thought that when we voted at some point in time to finalize this particular deal, that we have more that a moral obligation in there if something bellies up in the deal. Mr. Wall: Mr. Mays, let me address that. The Aviation Commission is not a separate legal entity. It works under this Commission. So therefore, the bonds would be issued by Augusta, and so therefore you as the governing body obviously would be the one who would have to approve the bond issuance and adopt the bond resolution, etc. And Bush Field operates as an enterprise fund and again, the aviation revenues that would be pledged toward the revenue bonds is what would be at risk. And as Mr. Oliver stated, there might be some practical reason that the county might want to step up and cure any default because of the negative impact that it might have on the perception of Augusta and some other projects that it might have underway, but there would not be a legal obligation as far as those revenues are concerned. Let me also, if I may, take a minute, Mayor -- Mr. Mayor: Go ahead, Mr. Wall. Mr. Wall: While I fully understand and appreciate the comments and the timing in this is right for us to revisit the size of the airport, certainly before any other steps are taken, so that you will know the other side, we have been engaged in discussions with the airlines, and without going into too much detail, with Delta’s jets having been pulled out of the market, they’re asking questions of do you need the loading bridges, for instance, and the result of the discussion was yes, you do. But a lot of the questions that they’re asking is rather than increasing the size of it, should you be looking at it from a standpoint of possibly scaling down. Recognize also that of the funding that is being proposed for the revenue bonds, approximately $900,000 if I remember correctly, are coming from the airlines. The others are non-airline revenues, fuel sales, lease payments, etc. But that is an integral part of the overall financing, although it’s roughly -- whatever percentage that is. It’s a significant percentage, but not the dominant percentage of the overall cost. But we have tried to get the airlines to buy into the airport project. They have to some extent, although again, without going into a whole lot of detail, they still have some questions about the financing for the airport terminal expansion project and the costs of them. So following up on what Mr. Garnett said, if you increase that cost significantly and expect the additional revenue to come from the airlines, there’s only a limited amount of flexibility there that I think we can anticipate. Mr. Garnett: Not only that, Mr. Wall, but there’s a limited amount of net revenues left at the airport at the end of the day, when you take into account not only the airline revenue but the revenue from the FBO and all the other non-airline operations out there. There’s only so much net revenue available. 12 Mr. Mays: Mr. Mayor, I’d like to apologize for interrupting this gentleman doing his presentation when I asked that question. Maybe it was on one of my non- hearing days that I have instructed that something different a little bit, and I won’t air no dirty linen of ours in here today, but that was one of our concerns and it has been presented more than one time, not in the presence of the Airport Authority, but in our own confines of how we were to deal with this situation and where those risks were. And that was one of the holdups that we had from several times and we were going with it. Now I’m hearing that a little bit different today, independent, flying on their own, and I’m going to support what they do, but I asked the question mainly based on what some of us have been told. And if I’m the only one that heard that, I guess I was hearing bad on that day. Mr. Mayor: Okay. Mr. Mays: But I definitely heard it and it was expressed a different way. So I’m glad now in a public meeting -- and this didn’t come from the airport folks, this came from our side of the fence, of where those concerns were. You all stated it just like it’s been stated today, Ed, when y’all came down here. Now we heard it different from our side of the fence. And I raised that question because we are at a point of fish or cut bait time, and it needed to be decided. So if it’s different and everybody is in tune with it, then I’m certainly in tune with it and I apologize for being the only one that heard it differently on that day. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Commissioner Mays. Let’s go to Commissioner Cheek and then Mr. Skinner, I’d like to give your group the opportunity to respond and ask questions or make comments or whatever. Mr. Cheek: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Is any thought been given to taking some of these same monies and increasing the current Bush Field industrial complex to attract industrial aviation type companies to this area to help make this a revenue producer? Mr. Mayor: Maybe Mr. Skinner could respond to that. Ed, let me turn the floor over to you and your folks. Mr. Skinner: Garrett Aviation has a new test [inaudible] in the planning stages. We have had a request for a paint shop, which would paint airplanes, which could bring in revenue to Bush Field. One reason we haven’t done something with the hotel in front of the hotel is there is a lease on that airport hotel that ran until 2015. We were fortunate enough to get out of that lease, buy out the land lease, which allowed us to tear down the two buildings, old buildings on the end. That put in additional parking, which is bringing in additional revenue. [inaudible] there is much better use for that land than [inaudible]. So that being said, we are looking now, some of the Commissioners are looking at an airplane [inaudible], which would not only be 13 good for the airport, it would be good for bringing in additional airlines. So I think many things are going on at Bush Field. Many opportunities for us. Some of the financing we’re talking about, we put on a passenger facility charge. This is $3 a ticket. 200,000 enplanements, that’s $600,000 a year. So that’s coming into us. And I think as we go over this proposal, what we have to remember, again, we’re all in favor of doing what’s best for Augusta, but we were told, as a lot of our Commissioners, and I happen to be the oldest out there, that we like the airport as it is. We like the atmosphere of that airport. We like the single story. We like the old Southern architecture. We gave that as a plan, to try to blend some of that architecture into [inaudible] and allow us to come up with a building that would be acceptable to the people in Augusta and this community. I would hope, Mr. Cheek, that we can bring in industry. We need to do that. And that’s the plan to do it. If we go with Bush Field terminal. As you remember, this aerial view, the Lock and Dam Road curves back around. If we put in a parallel runway, we’re going into a lot of wetlands cost back in here. I don’t know how this is going to work out. [inaudible] so I would hope we don’t delay this [inaudible]. Go ahead and move. Any suggestions that you have, I would hope that you give them to us now and maybe we can incorporate those into -- Mr. Mayor: Any of your folks -- I think Mr. McIntyre had his hand up. Mr. McIntyre: One other thing on what Mr. Skinner has just said. We have already signed a contract [inaudible] to come up with a master plan, that included additional industrial development. They are in the [inaudible] stages, they are working to provide us with the direction for the next [inaudible] years. We think that [inaudible]. [inaudible] get together and try to come up with solutions. [inaudible] Early on, we were told that this Commission, this same Commission, would not approve this project if it was going to require additional funds [inaudible]. Many times. We took that under consideration. The thing that we also took into consideration, not [inaudible], and in spite of the fact that we had to stay within the confines of our revenue, we weren’t going to build something, Mr. Mayor, that was just going to last until the year 2003. So we do have a projection beyond that for several years [inaudible]. I do feel that if we at this point abandon what we have worked very hard to accomplish at this point, that would be a mistake. Let me also add to that, those citizens that said we have a nice facility now, country club style and everything, it’s essential -- the building inspector [inaudible], because the termites are about to eat it up [inaudible]. [inaudible] working to get this facility changed and get a new facility out there. We have done this with sound judgment, we have investigated thoroughly, we have looked it from a new standpoint, and others have looked at this very hard, we know that the revenue is there to do what we want to do, it’s not that we are not [inaudible]. The other side of this is we’re not Savannah. Savannah has Hilton Head and other things and can generate 600,000 and this type thing, but I think that by being the second-largest city, it is prudent of us to do what we are doing now, not delaying this project, looking at trying to see what we can [inaudible]. Some Commissioners on our [inaudible] have said will this facility 14 provide for us additional -- how much [inaudible], to grow, and we’ve looked at that, and the answer to that is yes, we can get additional counter space, if additional airlines come in. I’m not one to feel that we will not get additional airlines. Dropping by Delta Airlines may be a blessing for us in terms of getting other regional jets in here at a lower cost for the citizens of our city. I think we have to look on the positive side and say what we need to do is roll up our sleeves and the city of Augusta and the Aviation Commission, the airport task force, the Chamber of Commerce, all work together to make this a better system than what we have now, rather than say it’s doomsday because Delta is pulling out their big jets, which I disagree with, because the regional jets are just as fine and Delta has just ordered 200 regional jets and probably we will get some of those to come in here. But I’m one who feels we are on the right track and we certainly appreciate the city Commissioners and the Mayor for their concern [inaudible], as we’ve discussed many times on the outside, keep the lines of communication open and keep the Mayor and city council well informed. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Henry Brigham? Mr. H. Brigham: I’ve heard two or three sides of the items today and I sat in on some of the meetings out there. And when I heard the idea of expanding, redoing the runways, changing, that sort of thing, I felt good about that, but now you’re telling me that [inaudible], and then the other idea is tearing down the hotel. I don’t travel that much anymore but I did go a lot of places. Most of them had hotels, and we’re saying it’s best to tear this down. I just want a little more explanation on that. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Jimmy Drew? Mr. Drew: Mr. Commissioner, if now is the time, certainly I don’t want to hold my peace. Mr. Mayor: We have another meeting at four, so we don’t want you to hold it, but we want you to keep it short. Mr. Drew: Everybody here has a really good point and what Willie Mays -- and Willie, you’re not the only one here that might be a little bit crazy cause I think I am, too, in a lot of different ways. But there’s a great philosopher one time that made the statement that when you do something not well enough or you don’t spend enough money, you lose it all because it didn’t do what it intended to do, but when you overspent and let’s say you even wasted a little bit of money, then the only thing that you are going to lose is what you wasted, but you still are going to have something that is going to do the job. So I have some concerns. We’re all products of our environment and the paths that we have crossed and the people that we meet, and I’d like to tell you about just one of them that I’ve met in my life that happened to be in the amusement business, and his name was Mr. William Berry Hartsfield. And he owned a carousel and he collected carousel horses and was a good friend of my 15 father’s and he would come to Augusta, and every time I was around him, he would talk about the Atlanta airport. And he talked -- I know we’re not Atlanta. Don’t get me on that one. I know we’re Augusta. But I remember what the Chairman said, he made the important point about how vital this airport is for the community, and Mayor Hartsfield made the statement when he first became Mayor of Atlanta, they were the same size as Birmingham. I’ve heard him say it more than once. And they were the same size as Birmingham, and Birmingham didn’t understand the power of aviation and what the airport could do, and they kept putting money in their airport, and you see what it did for the community. He didn’t believe it was an engine of economic growth, Mayor Hartsfield -- he believed it was the engine of economic growth. I heard him say it. I know we’ve got to do a little smaller scale and they made very good points. We can only do what we can afford, but we should only be limited by what we can afford. We should do great things if we can, and the terminal should make a grand statement for Augusta if it can. And I know of no evidence except maybe Melrose, Florida -- and we operate around that area and we’re talking about a place maybe like Thomson or maybe on the level of Statesboro or that area -- but that’s the only place I can think of where they have built a terminal where they really didn’t come. But I look at Knoxville, Tennessee. I can see Knoxville with 11 gates, excuse me, 12 gates with their new terminal and ten airlines -- I was in it the other day -- and I can remember when it was just like Augusta, and not too far back. And I started at this airport when it was a Delta CNS Airlines, and I’ve been here a long time. DC3s. I’ve probably got a million miles in Delta DC3s. So there’s a lot of things to consider. If you look at Roanoke, Virginia, I can remember just not very long ago that they were a one-airline town. And we’re going to be around a long time and I think we need to think as grand as we can think. That’s all I want to say. Mr. Mayor: Thank you. Ms. Wilhelmi? Ms. Wilhelmi: I wanted to piggyback on a couple of thinks Commissioner Mays had to say. For starters, thank all of you for taking time out of your busy days to go to Savannah to look at that. It is a market change, but we’re all in the same boat. If there’s a leak in the boat, we’re all going down together. And similarly, if we’re going to plug it and make this sucker float, we’d better do it on a grand scale. So thank you for taking the time. Commissioner Colclough just came in, we’ve got everybody in that went to Savannah, and I know we’re all on the same page. I believe that 35 or 40 minutes ago we asked the LPA folks if money was no object, are we building the most intelligent airport for Augusta, Georgia? And I’m going to ask them that same question in a few minutes, because I think we’re going to get a different answer than what we’ve planned for. Those of us on the Commission the last three months have made it a point to go visit a number of airports around the Southeast. I am convinced we are on the plane. And furthermore, we have not done squat to develop our airport economically with other industry that would be non- aviation revenue that would help us afford something bigger than what we have planned for. Our airport is now 51 years old. We have never built a terminal in this town. We’re dealing with residual Army mess hall, a lunch hall, and a supply room 16 that we have jerry-rigged together and called an airport. And similarly, we have barely scratched the surface when it comes to air service in this town. We’ve not had any consistent effort on a day in, day out kind of basis in the last ten years in this city, and it’s time to quit fooling around, sugar coating that, too. So it is time to kick some tail on a couple of fronts. We’ve got an awful lot of land out there that needs to be developed. We’ve had in three months more opportunities fall out of the sky that would be making up a lot of lost time out there economically. Let me give you an example. Elizabeth Guilfoyle-Wehman is here. She accompanied us on a trip to Greensboro, North Carolina on June 12. It’s a community of 200,000 people. The demographics are almost the dog-gone same rubber stamp of what Augusta, Georgia is. They’ve got eight airline, ten direct cities, more industry than you can shake a stick at, and the bottom line is they thoroughly have their act together and they all march in the same direction. They’re not worried about who is getting credit. They just say this is where we want to go, and we’re going. And so it’s heartening for the rest of us to hear from you guys that possibly we’re getting pretty close to heading in that direction. Willie, you have word that I do love and use it all the time. It’s called do we have the testosterone as a community to dream big? And that’s a really good question to ask right now. I believe the climate is coming together just that way. Ironically, the fact that we haven’t developed our airport is almost going to work out as a blessing for us, because we do have a clean slate. Ed Skinner is talking about the non-feasibility of that second runway. Ed was not with us when we interviewed the master planners that we just recently hired, and so he would not be privy to some of that data. But three of the finalists that we interviewed for a master plan, which by the way is the first master plan that has ever been done for Bush Field. And why it is that we’re designing terminals and moving parking lots around and citing corporate hangars and control towers and fuel firms and fire departments without the benefit of a master plan is really a pretty good question. If we do one thing at all this year, that master plan will be much more important than putting this terminal on the front burner. Because that then becomes our road map for the next 20 years. Right now, we’re flying by the seat of our pants. Getting back to it, three for three the master planning companies told us you are prime for a second runway, and you’re shortchanging yourself by putting your terminal right where you’re talking about doing it. I’m getting ready to ask -- where is Mr. Anderson? Mr. Anderson: I’m right here. Ms. Wilhelmi: Bob, come on over, and let’s just ask you without any guns, straight from the hip, if you had your druthers, would you be building this terminal or would you be building something else? Mr. Anderson: I’d be building this terminal. Ms. Wilhelmi: [inaudible] Let me also say [inaudible]. 17 Mr. Anderson: You have some room to grow. Looking at the big picture, all the geometry of airport design comes off of runway surfaces. Off that runway surface. See this primary surface here? Basically that means nothing in that area, and then as you come off of it at a one foot for every seven [inaudible], you begin to gain some space. This next dotted line here shows where 50 [inaudible] would [inaudible]. A lot of these larger jets have tail lights in the 35 foot range. If you get bigger, like the 767s, things like that, you’re [inaudible]. So you can see there’s a limitation, based on relationship and size of runway, how far you can go. That’s why after going through various alternative steps, it seems to make more sense to run more south than go the limited amount that’s available in this direction. Okay? As far as why I say build this terminal now, it would be wonderful to build everything that your heart desires. Unfortunately, we all have to balance all the projects that are needed at the airport, and there are several income strains that Chris mentioned, that they have to be divided out amongst those different needs. And that’s why I think this terminal can serve you if you get the kind of growth that you want, for at least 20 years. While you can still not be house rich and cash poor due to having all the money invested in terminal facility and not be able to do the things that you want to for general aviation, for improving, or even maintaining the facility that you already have. Runways, taxi ways, navigation aids, etc., etc. So that’s my short story on why I feel this way. Mr. Mayor: Let me jump in here because we have another Commission meeting that started at 4 that we have to convene. I appreciate everyone’s attendance and the input here today. What I’d like to do, with indulgence of the Commission and Mr. Skinner and your board, if we could ask the LPA Group to provide us some information that would address some of the questions that we raised today with respect to the two story design, the more dramatic presentation of the terminal, perhaps the relocation of the terminal to the mid-field, if you could just give us some idea of what we’re looking at as far as cost. Don’t worry about every penny but just get us in the ball park. And construction, how that would be impacted by making those changes, so that we could take a look at that and then if there’s still some sentiment on this Commission to try to do something more aggressive, to come up with some additional funding from other sources, indeed the meeting this afternoon is about the sales tax and where we want to spend some of that money, and then that would give us an opportunity, Mr. Skinner, to get back with you and see if we want to do some more. Mr. McIntyre, you had your hand up? Mr. McIntyre: Yes, sir, Mr. Mayor, I would suggest that you give them a timetable. Mr. Mayor: Yes, sir. Before this meeting, they told me that could get me the information within the next two weeks, and they told me that acquiring the information would not delay the work they’re doing now. So it wouldn’t affect -- if we choose to remain on schedule, it’s not going to hurt us. Mr. J. Brigham: Mr. Mayor? 18 Mr. Mayor: Yes, sir, Mr. Jerry Brigham, and then Mr. Mays. Mr. J. Brigham: I have one question and this was brought up earlier, and that was about a perimeter route. Ed, have y’all got any kind of estimate of a cost of a perimeter route? Mr. Skinner: Nothing yet. Mr. J. Brigham: Nothing? Now is the perfect time if you have an estimate, to give it to us. Mr. Skinner: [inaudible] something we have to get some expert advice on. [inaudible] Mr. J. Brigham: Bob, I think we need to have that estimate as quickly as possible. I don’t know where it would come from. Mr. Mayor: Who would give us that estimate? Mr. Oliver: I think LPA is in the best position to provide that estimate because they’re most familiar with the project and the property. Mr. Mayor: I see them writing that down right now. Okay. Mr. J. Brigham: The only other question I was going to have was when do you think the master plan will be complete? Mr. Skinner: We have not signed a contract for it yet. [inaudible] Mr. J. Brigham: Thank you. Mr. Mayor: Mr. Mays? Mr. Mays: Mr. Mayor, this can be handled in that later on list, but I know we’ve put the concentration of asking questions, because it’s most visible in terms of talking about the larger jets and passenger traffic. And I’m sure this group has prudently looked into those other numbers. But if it’s a short answer, fine. If not, I can get it from you in writing. Mr. Mayor: Just make it a short question. Mr. Mays: What I’m concerned about is that we talk about the passenger traffic, but in the air cargo business, I’m also worried in reference to those people that are making plans right now, whether they are buying trucks, whether they are buying 19 vans, looking for either commercial or private alternatives to move that. It does make a difference even down to the business that I run, from the standpoint of what can go on a small plane in its air cargo versus what can go in a jet. And I think those numbers need also to be looked at from the standpoint that you may not see the seats full many times, but underneath that cargo bin, it’s also revenue that’s there that may have those cargo numbers. So I think we need to look at that in conjunction with what you’re talking about with passengers. That would also help us in this place, because the passengers are visible, but the air cargo, and going back to those smaller WKRP jets, they will not hold what we’ve done, and I think we can Albany what happened with that in terms of revenue, and I’m sure I don’t have to tell you, I know that military and out of their procurement and their mortuary division has knocked on your door a lot about what is going to happen, particularly with two VA hospitals and Eisenhower General. So I just wanted to throw that in there about the air cargo. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Mays. Mr. Skinner: Thank you very much. I want to thank the Commission on behalf of the Aviation Commission [inaudible] willing to get this information in the time that you asked. And if there is anything else we can provide, we’ll be glad to. Mr. Mayor: Thank you, Mr. Skinner. I just want to reiterate what I said at the beginning, we’re all on the same team and we want to make this team has the best equipment it can so we can win when we’re out on the field. Thank y’all very much. The meeting is adjourned. [MEETING ADJOURNED] Lena J. Bonner Clerk of Commission CERTIFICATION: I, Lena J. Bonner, Clerk of Commission, hereby certify that the above is a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Joint Meeting of the Augusta Richmond County Commission and the Augusta Aviation Commission held on July 12, 2000. Clerk of Commission