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HomeMy WebLinkAbout06-18-1996 Regular Meeting REGULAR MEETING COMMISSION-COUNCIL CHAMBERS June 18, 1996 Augusta-Richmond County Commission-Council convened at 2:00 P.M, Tuesday, June 18, 1996, the Honorable Larry E. Sconyers, Mayor, presiding. PRESENT: Hons. Beard, Bridges, H. Brigham, J. Brigham, Handy, Kuhlke, Mays, Powell, Todd and Zetterberg, member of Augusta-Richmond County Commission-Council. Also present were Lena Bonner, Interim Clerk of Commission-Council; James B. Wall, Interim Augusta-Richmond County Attorney; and Cathy Pirtle, Certified Court Reporter. MAYOR SCONYERS: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. The Regular Meeting of the Augusta-Richmond County Board of Commission-Council will please come to order. After the Invocation by the Reverend Bruce W. Hill, Pastor of the Servants of God Baptist Church, if you'll remain standing we'll have the Pledge of Allegiance. THE INVOCATION WAS GIVEN BY THE REVEREND HILL. THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE WAS RECITED. MAYOR SCONYERS: Do we have any additions or deletions, Ms. Bonner? CLERK: Yes, sir, we have two requests for additions to the agenda: Item 1 is to discuss the Damascus Road/Village Square property; Number 2, the purchase of E-911 equipment for the new facility. We have a request from the Attorney to delete Item 13, the BSFS computer equipment agreement. MAYOR SCONYERS: What's your pleasure, gentlemen? MR. KUHLKE: So move. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I'm going to second it to get it on the floor. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Kuhlke, seconded by Mr. Todd. Discussion? MR. TODD: Yes. Mr. Mayor, we need some additional information on Damascus Road project, demolishing that. And I think that in the sense that it's been put on the agenda as an addendum, we should hear from somebody as far as what the end results of that is. MAYOR SCONYERS: Drew, do you want to handle that? I tell you what it is, Mr. Todd, we've got some folks interested in the property, and -- Drew, you can address that if you'd like. MR. GOINS: Yes, sir. Mr. Todd, we've been approached by several individuals about purchasing the property in a as-is condition, and I wanted to get some direction from the Commission-Council and to proceed with appraisals of the property rather than demolishing the units that are remaining. MR. TODD: I guess I -- if we're talking about acquisitions, then certainly we probably should have handled this in a legal session possibly, I don't know. But I'm not going to hold it up, I guess I'm going to go on and vote to add it to the agenda, but it do concern me when we're dealing with acquisition or de-acquisition of properties, that we do it with -- adding it to the agenda versus having information. Mr. Kuhlke, are you on board with this? MR. KUHLKE: With what? I made the motion. I understood all we're going to do is discuss it. Am I correct, Mr. Mayor, just for discussion? MAYOR SCONYERS: Yes, sir, that's correct, Mr. Kuhlke. MR. TODD: I can support it as far as unanimous consent. MR. J. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, I call the question. MAYOR SCONYERS: All in favor of Mr. Kuhlke's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 10-0. MAYOR SCONYERS: Item 1, please. CLERK: Item 1 is a delegation: Mr. J. Conn Ellington, Easley, McCaleb & Associates, in reference to a request for reconsideration of Commission- Council's May 7 decision to deny the removal of the 1995 penalty and interest on tax bills. Mr. Ellington? MR. ELLINGTON: I'd first like to start by thanking y'all for this time and to also clarify that I speak on behalf of Easley, McCaleb & Associates, of which I'm under the employ. The two parcels at hand were acting and pay their taxes based on what we had informed them and instructed them to do based on what we had been told by the Commissioner's Office, and with your approval I'd like to pass out some documentation that I'm not aware if you have or not supporting -- CLERK: Is that what you sent me? MR. ELLINGTON: Yes. CLERK: Yes, sir, they have it. MR. ELLINGTON: Okay. Well, then I'd like to go right in and reference it. The first is a cover letter discussing, you know, just basically the request to have this reconsidered, and the reason I did that is because I was not aware it was coming before the Council. I had been instructed through several representatives that the best thing to do would be to address it to Mr. Wall, the County Attorney, and that's what we did, and then I, in follow up, was notified of y'alls decision. But I would like to point out, basically if you go back to the initial October 9th letter we sent to Helen Marcum stating that there were certain parcels that we had been instructed to await tax bills upon settling of their tax assessment values. Easley, McCaleb & Associates is a national property tax consulting firm in business for over 15 years; we've been working in the Augusta area for at least the last 10 to 15. And there was a huge list. If you'll look at the material, this is important documentation. I know y'all have a lot on your agenda today, but it does rather support what we're stating. If you will, when you receive it, catch up to me, I'm on the fourth from the last page, and it lists about 20 parcels that were under review and they had asked that we wait until they were settled. That was October 9th. I did not bring Ms. Marcum before the Council because, to my knowledge, there's been no challenge to any of this information, it's just been a matter of a vote of how to handle it. But if you'll also note as you go through this, handwritten on the attachment is a letter from Ms. Marcum signed on October 24th, and I personally brought this down to see what the status was. I was here on other matters. And she handwrote, if I could quote: So sorry about not getting this to you yet. Just be assured you will get new bills with new discount dates 20 days from date bills are printed and new date. Thanks again, I apologize, Helen A. Marcum. You have that in front of you. We went on in -- December 11th, 1995 was our next correspondence. It was an adjusted attachment based on only about seven parcels, to wit, two of these that are before you today are referenced. This was not challenged and we, upon follow up with phones, were told that they would be issued. If you'll look at the last three pages, what they are are the tax bills that we're discussing. They're dated -- if you'll look where they typically date right under -- right next to Richmond County, Georgia, it's February 9th, '96. If you'll look at the very last page, you'll see that it was mailed out with a postmeter of February 18th, 1996. Upon getting these bills we called Ms. Marcum and asked her why they reflected a higher amount showing penalties and interest. She said -- she handwrote 2/29/96 is the due date, adjusting the values down to their original amount due, which is basically how we had been told it would be handled. We had these paid; we then received delinquent tax bills for that interest and penalties. So the only thing that's not been paid, and it's still in balance and in limbo, is this amount. Upon calling Ms. Marcum to ask her why we received these, she said she would check. We were told that the decision was that -- and I believe you're aware of the law and the policies of the City of Augusta-Richmond County -- that anything over $200 would need to come before the Council, and that's what we're doing today. We were instructed -- we believed that there was not going to be an issue of penalties and interest because we were just going about our business waiting for the bills to be mailed, and then we paid them promptly. Since now it's become an issue, we respectfully ask that since we followed what we were being told -- we truly believed it to be accurate. We believed Ms. Marcum. We were told that she did not have the right to grant us that. We didn't really feel like we were asking for anything special because we were just asking for the bills as soon as they could get them. We got a letter apologizing for the delay. I believe both taxpayers, even though both these -- I should say even though they're under different names, they're being paid by the bank under the lease. They have a very strong history of paying on time and they take that very seriously, and I do as well. We ask that because in good faith we were acting as instructed, that these be removed. I'm sorry I wasn't before you before when it came before you, but I was not aware it was coming before the Council, and I ask that not only because it is a monetary issue but it is a matter of principle. We have a reputation we like to maintain of following guidelines and due dates, we take it very seriously, and ask that you vote in our favor on this issue. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I so move that we do a reconsideration vote on it and waive the interest and penalty. MR. POWELL: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Todd, seconded by Mr. Powell. Mr. Wall wanted to say something. Mr. Wall? MR. WALL: Mr. Mayor, the information that has been furnished to you is accurate; however, there was one omission in the information, according to what I've been told out of the Tax Commissioner's Office. And that is that even though the tax bills that were mailed on February the 18th showed a handwritten due date of February the 29th, the taxes were not in fact paid until March of '96, and that's the reason that the penalty and interest was imposed. MR. ELLINGTON: The penalty and interest that's imposed was based back on the original due date of, I believe, October 19th; is that not correct, sir? MR. WALL: Well, it was imposed because it was not paid by the due date. While the matter was under appeal, no tax bill was sent out. When the appeals were dismissed and there was a final decision, then the tax bills were mailed. It had been our understanding that your contention was that you had not received the tax bill, but as evidenced by the information that you furnished and has been -- we have been able to obtain earlier, the tax bills were in fact mailed on February the 18th. But the bills were not paid by the February 29 due date; they were paid, I believe, on March the 18th. MR. ELLINGTON: I would like to state that they were actually mailed on the 18th of February, as so noted, and we received them and then had to forward them to corporate. They were paid within a reasonable time period. If any interest and penalty should be applied, it should be appropriate to the manner of the mailing date, not go back to the -- revert back to the October 19th original due date. They did try to attempt to pay these as soon as possible. It's a matter of processing. When we received them, we forwarded them. That was a goal set by Helen Marcum of, you know, if you can get this to our office by this date they will be removed. What we did was forward them to corporate, which they were paid upon receipt. MR. WALL: I'd point out that the 15% penalty doesn't bear into the time frame. The 15% penalty, you know, whether that dates to February the 29th or October it's still 15%, so that amount would not change. MR. ELLINGTON: As I understand it, the actual tax bill process is a 20- day discount date. We were not --we're not asking for a discount date. We paid them within 30 days of mailing, which I think if you'll check with policy, that would be appropriate with City of Augusta-Richmond County. You stated yourself that they were received in the office by the 18th, which according to the postmark would be a 30-day turnaround of issuing the bills, not even receiving. And as you know, with corporate banking it's not -- doesn't go down to the local branch and cut at that point, it does go to a corporate office. We were not trying in any way to avoid any taxation. In good faith, we were trying to make these payments. We tried to make them by the 29th, they were FedEx'd out of my office, it just was not possible. But I think a 30-day turnaround from the date mailed from Augusta is quite appropriate, and I ask again that -- we're not asking for any discount date, which is the 20-day, we're only asking for the waiving of the penalty and interest because of that. MR. WALL: The basis of my recommendation before the Finance Committee that this be turned down was because they showed a February 29th due date and they were not paid until sometime in March. And the bills were properly mailed, properly handled by the Tax Commissioner's Office, and I didn't see any justification. And that was the recommendation that I made then and, frankly, that's still my recommendation. MAYOR SCONYERS: Further discussion, gentlemen? MR. J. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, is it my understanding that the bill was paid late? MR. WALL: Yes, sir. MR. ELLINGTON: It was paid within 30 days. It was not paid within the self-imposed goal of Helen Marcum that she put on the tax bill, but I would like to state that the -- MR. J. BRIGHAM: I don't know that that was a self-imposed goal or not. You're assuming that it was self-imposed. Did you not know what the tax bill was in October? MR. ELLINGTON: Sir, we had asked to pay for them on a handwritten bill and they had asked us to wait. I would like to state the last -- MR. J. BRIGHAM: No, did you not know the amount in October? MR. ELLINGTON: Oh, we knew what -- we did not know what the final settlement of the assessment would be. MR. J. BRIGHAM: So it was a matter of when the check was cut, it was not knowing what the amount was once the settlement was reached, was it? MR. ELLINGTON: I'm not clear on what you're saying. If you're suggesting we could've had the check in waiting, they have to receive a bill in order to cut a check, just for fiscal responsibility. They paid these bills within 30 days of mailing, and I think City of Augusta-Richmond County tax bill procedure does not impose any 30-day requirement that I know of, it's only a 20-day for the discount. And, once again, we are not asking for the discount, we are only asking for a reasonable period to pay these. The 29th, if you would -- you can do the math yourself. The postmark is the 18th; the 29th is 11 days from mailing. We had FedEx'd them in an attempt to meet this requirement, but we still stand that these were paid within 30 days of mailing, and in good faith, in extreme good faith. And we would have paid them by handwritten, and we had asked to, but they had asked us to wait. And in the absence of a tax bill, we could not have the processing begin. And that's by the tax bill, which seems reasonable. I don't think any taxpayer in Augusta is asked to pay a bill within 30 days unless they want to claim that discount. MAYOR SCONYERS: Further discussion, gentlemen? Further discussion? MR. J. BRIGHAM: I guess we call for the question, Mr. Mayor. MAYOR SCONYERS: All right. Do y'all know what we're voting on now? Does anybody need the motion reread? MR. HANDY: Yes, would you do so, Mr. Mayor, please. MAYOR SCONYERS: Okay. Would you, Susan? Thank you. MS. WATSON: It was a motion by Mr. Todd, seconded by Mr. Powell, to waive both penalty and interest. MR. HANDY: Mr. Wall, that's the normal procedure, we waive penalty and interest when they are late? MR. WALL: No, sir. Normal procedure is the only thing that you ever waive is penalty where there was some foul up or justification for the delayed payment. The interest, we have -- when you have waived penalty, except in a rare case, and I think there may have been some rare cases, but typically you have just waived the penalty, collected the interest, because they've had the benefit of the use of the funds during that interim and it was appropriate to collect the interest anyhow. MR. ELLINGTON: The only comment I'd like to make to that -- and that's typical across the state. I would like to ask that -- with that being said, most people don't receive 1% interest on their investments. We had asked to pay these, hand-corrected, to avoid such a circumstance as this. And I would like to refer back to that attachment where handwritten by Helen A. Marcum said that the bills will have a new discount date 20 days from date bills are printed and new due dates, and a due date allows you to pay without penalty and interest, as definition. Helen A. Marcum is a representative of the Tax Commissioner's Office. We like to think that we don't have to actually speak to or have written notification from the actual Tax Commissioner all across the country. I think that allows a natural flow and a smooth flow of business. We were never notified that any of these correspondence were out of line or inappropriate or incorrect, so in good faith we held our stead and waited for the bills to be issued. And, once again, they were paid within 30 days, which tax bill procedure stipulates that would not be a late payment. It would not be qualified for the discount date, but it would not be a late payment, I would like to clarify that. And we're not asking for the discount. MAYOR SCONYERS: Thank you. Are y'all ready to vote, gentlemen? Are you through, Mr. Handy? MR. HANDY: Where is this lady who gave all this handwritten information? MR. WALL: Ms. Marcum is on jury duty this week and could not be here today. MR. HANDY: Could we put this off until she can be here to explain why she did what she did? I could vote on -- I could support it if I could understand it much better from the person who made this mess. Could I do a substitute motion to table it until we can get the person who -- MR. ELLINGTON: I believe I can -- if I can -- MAYOR SCONYERS: No, sir, I think we're going to settle this right now. If you want to do the motion, do the motion. We'll either vote it up or down. MR. HANDY: I would like to offer a substitute motion to table it until we can get some more information on it. MAYOR SCONYERS: All right, I have a motion by Mr. Handy. Do I hear a second to Mr. Handy's motion? MR. KUHLKE: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: Is that Mr. Kuhlke? MR. KUHLKE: Yes, sir. MAYOR SCONYERS: Thank you, Mr. Kuhlke. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I'll withdraw the primary motion and make the substitute primary. MAYOR SCONYERS: Okay. Mr. Powell, do you withdraw your second? MR. POWELL: Yes, sir. MAYOR SCONYERS: Thank you, sir. All in favor of Mr. Handy's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 10-0. MAYOR SCONYERS: Thank you very much. Item 2, please -- or Item 1. CLERK: Items 1 through 9 are all requests for concurrence with the decision of the Planning Commission to approve petition. Item 1 is on behalf of the Second Mt. Moriah Baptist Church, requesting a special exception for an existing church, 1404 Brown Street; Item 2 is the purpose of establishing an unmanned trans-mission tower at 1510 Gordon Highway; Item 3 is to approve a petition requesting a special exception for expanding an existing church, 3540 Lumpkin Road; Item 4 is establishing an unmanned transmission tower, Hephzibah-McBean and Old Waynesboro Road; Item 5 is for a special exception for establishing a day care, 1842 Wrightsboro Road; Item 6 is for an unmanned cellular communications tower off Camp Angehele Road; Item 7 is change of zoning from a B-1 (Neighborhood) to a B-2 (General Business) at 3866 Mike Padgett Highway; Item 8 is to approve a petition for a change of zoning from a Zone R-1A to a Zone B-1 (Neighborhood Business), 2731 Milledgeville Road; Item 9 is for a request of change of zoning from a Zone P-1 (Professional) and a Zone B-1 (Neighborhood Business), 1109 15th Street and 1513 Laney-Walker Boulevard. There were no objectors, according to Mr. Patty from Planning, on these items. MR. HANDY: Mr. Mayor, I'd like to make a motion that we accept these. I was the Planning representative that day and we did not have any objectors. MR. H. BRIGHAM: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Handy, seconded by Mr. Henry Brigham. Discussion, gentlemen? MR. TODD: Yes. Mr. Mayor, where is 1510 Gordon Highway? That would be the only concern I'd have. MR. PATTY: This is a piece of property that's been vacant for a long time right where 25 and -- MR. TODD: Okay. No problem. MR. J. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, do we have any objectors present today? MAYOR SCONYERS: Do we have any objectors to any of these, Item 1 through 9? [No response] None noted. MR. HANDY: Call for the question. MAYOR SCONYERS: All in favor of Mr. Handy's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. [Item 1: Z-96-51 - Request for concurrence with the decision of the Planning Commission to APPROVE a petition from Wilson Gibbons, on behalf of Second Mt. Moriah Baptist Church, requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of expanding an existing church as provided for in Section 26-1, Subparagraph (a) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County on property located on the southwest corner of the intersection of Brown Street and Augusta Avenue (1404 Brown Street). (District 2) Item 2: Z-96-52 - Request for concurrence with the decision of the Planning Commission to APPROVE a petition from Hal Kraft, on behalf of William Waters, requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing an unmanned transmission tower as provided for in Section 26-1, Subparagraph (c) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County on property located on a Bearing S 41-01'07" E and being 46 feet, more or less, southeast of a point located on the southeast right-of-way line of Gordon Highway and also being 801 feet, more or less, southwest of a point where the northwest right- of-way line of Old Savannah Road intersects with the southeast right-of-way line of Gordon Highway (1510 Gordon Highway). (District 2) Item 3: Z- 96-53 - Request for concurrence with the decision of the Planning Commission to APPROVE a petition from Dr. Lenard Chavis, on behalf of Lumpkin Road Baptist Church, requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of expanding an existing church as provided for in Section 26-1, Subparagraph (a) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County on property located on the southwest right-of-way line of Lumpkin Road, 388.5 feet west of the southwest corner of the intersection of Pine View Drive and Lumpkin Road (2540 Lumpkin road). (District 8) Item 4: Z-96-54 - Request for concurrence with the decision of the Planning Commission to APPROVE a petition from Steve Smead, on behalf of J. Kenneth Cox, requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing an unmanned transmission tower as provided for in Section 26-1, Subparagraph (c) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County on property located on the southwest right-of-way line of Old Waynesboro Road, 1.2 miles, more or less, north of the northwest corner of the intersection of Hephzibah-McBean Road and Old Waynesboro Road. (District 8) Item 5: Z-96-55 - Request for concurrence with the decision of the Planning Commission to APPROVE a petition from Anthony Franklin, on behalf of Anthony and Maudree Franklin, requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing a day care center as provided for in Section 26-1, Subparagraph (n) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County on property located on the southeast corner of the intersection of Wrightsboro Road and Spring Street (1842 Wrightsboro Road). (District 5) Item 6: Z-96-56 - Request for concurrence with the decision of the Planning Commission to APPROVE a petition from Victor M. Landau, on behalf of Augusta Metronet, Inc., requesting a Special Exception for the purpose of establishing an unmanned cellular communications tower as provided for in Section 26-1, Subparagraph (c) of the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance for Augusta-Richmond County on property located on the northwest right-of-way line of Camp Angehele Road (private), 1,453.85 feet southwest of a point where the southwest right- of-way line of Hephzibah-McBean Road intersects with the northwest right-of- way line of Camp Angehele Road. (District 8) Item 7: Z-96-57 - Request for concurrence with the decision of the Planning Commission to APPROVE a petition from Nelson Williams, on behalf of ISBE & Benadam Corporation, requesting a change of zoning from Zone B-1 (Neighborhood Business) to Zone B- 2 (General Business) on property located on the northeast right-of-way line of Mike Padgett Highway (formerly Old Savannah Road), 1,220 feet, more or less, southeast of the southeast corner of the intersection of Dickerson Road and Mike Padgett Highway (3866 Mike Padgett Highway). (District 8) Item 8: Z-96-58 - Request for concurrence with the decision of the Planning Commission to APPROVE a petition from Tony Mulherin, on behalf of Edna McGahee and Helen Zimmerman, requesting a change of zoning from Zone R-1A (One-family Residence) to Zone B-1 (Neighborhood Business) on property located on the north right-of- way line of Milledgeville Road, 336.5 feet west of the northwest corner of the intersection of Melton Road and Milledgeville Road (2731 Milledgeville Road). (District 5) Item 9: Z-96-59 - Request for concurrence with the decision of the Planning Commission to APPROVE a petition from Maurice Steinberg, on behalf of Maurice Steinberg, et al., requesting a change of zoning from Zone P-1 (Professional) and Zone B-1 (Neighborhood Business) to Zone B-1 (Neighborhood Business) on property located on the northwest right- of-way line of 15th Street, 86.0 feet north of the northwest corner of the intersection of Laney-Walker Boulevard and 15th Street (1109 15th Street and 1513 Laney-Walker Boulevard). (District 1)] MOTION CARRIES 10-0. CLERK: Items 10 through 12 were final plat approvals: Country Place Subdivision, Pepperidge Subdivision, Eagle Pointe Subdivision. MR. BRIDGES: Mr. Mayor, I've got a question. On Item 10, is that not in a flood plain? in a flood plain? What's the status of Country Place? MR. PATTY: No, there are no flood plains on any of these properties. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I guess my question would be Pepperidge, Monte Carlo Drive. What is the situation there, are they -- I know we have a flood area there that we got hit in 1990 by, and I'm wondering how we're going to impact that. And that's been my concern as we've developed Pepperidge, so. MR. PATTY: Mr. Todd, the only thing I can tell you, this particular area is not located in a flood plain, and the Engineering Department has seen that provisions are made to control the flood water from this section so it won't, you know, within reason, impact those other areas. MR. TODD: Okay. Thank you. MAYOR SCONYERS: Do I hear a motion that we accept these? MR. HANDY: So move. MR. TODD: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Handy, seconded by Mr. Todd. Further discussion, gentlemen? All in favor of Mr. Handy's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. [Item 10: S-497-IV - COUNTRY PLACE SUBDIVISION - SECTION IV - FINAL PLAT - Request for concurrence with the decision of the Planning Commission to APPROVE a petition from W. R. Toole Engineering, on behalf of Nordahl & Company, Inc., requesting a Final Plat Approval of Country Place Subdivision, Section IV. This section is an extension of Country Place Drive off the west side of Hwy. 56 in Country Place Subdivision and contains 28 lots. (The Plat was approved by the Planning Commission Staff on June 12, 1996.) Item 11: S-227-XI-C - PEPPERIDGE SUBDIVISION - SECTION XI-C - FINAL PLAT - Request for concurrence with the decision of the Planning Commission to APPROVE a petition from W. R. Toole Engineering, on behalf of Nordahl & Company, Inc., requesting a Final Plat Approval of Pepperidge Subdivision, Section XI-C. This section is an extension of Monte Carlo Drive, Millstone Run and Shady Brook Drive in Pepperidge Subdivision and contains 35 lots. (The Plat was approved by the Planning Commission Staff on June 12, 1996.) Item 12: EAGLE POINTE SUBDIVISION - FINAL PLAT - Request for concurrence with the decision of the Planning Commission to APPROVE a petition from Cranston, Robertson & Whitehurst, on behalf of Veterans Realty, requesting a Final Plat Approval of Eagle Pointe Subdivision. This subdivision is located on the north side of Skinner Mill Road, 786.87 feet west of Park Place Drive and contains 44 lots. (The Plat was approved by the Planning Commission Staff on June 12, 1996.)] MOTION CARRIES 10-0. MAYOR SCONYERS: Next item, please. CLERK: Items 14 through 22 were all approved by the Finance Committee June 10th, 1996. MR. J. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, the Finance Committee recommends approval of these items. MR. HANDY: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Brigham, seconded by Mr. Handy. Discussion, gentlemen? MR. TODD: No, Mr. Mayor. I guess I see for the first time the information that I've been requesting in reference the actuary information and certainly appreciate Finance providing that. MAYOR SCONYERS: Further discussion, gentlemen? All in favor of Mr. Brigham's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. [Item 14: Consider approval of funding in the amount of $18,500 to the Paine College Summer Sports Program. Item 15: Consider approval of transferring Fire Department from Smile Gas manual billing system to Fuelman billing system. Item 16: Consider approval of resurfacing the tennis courts at Newman Tennis Center. Item 17: Consider approval of application for Purchase of Prior Year Services into 1977 Retirement Plan by Robert J. Etterlee, Public Works/Traffic Engineer. Item 18: Consider approval of application for Purchase of Prior Year Services into 1977 Retirement Plan by George S. McElveen, Water & Sewerage Department. Item 19: Consider approval of funding for 1996 for Greater Augusta Arts Council. Item 20: Consider approval of a request from the Office of the Tax Commissioner requesting forgiveness of 1989 City taxes on property of Map 60- 1; Parcel 32.01. Item 21: Consider approval of additional invoices in connection with the third floor renovation totaling $1,477.80. Item 22: Consider approval that all requests for ADA modifications be paid from the requesting department's 1-cent Sales Tax Budget.] MOTION CARRIES 10-0. CLERK: Item 23 -- and I'd like to make the correction that the 18 temporary employees will be for the Sanitation Division, and that was approved by the Administrative Services Committee June 10th, 1996. MR. BEARD: Mr. Mayor, I move that Item 23 be approved. MR. POWELL: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Beard, seconded by Mr. Powell. Discussion, gentlemen? MR. TODD: Yes, Mr. Mayor, there is. Certainly I understand that we need to do some things in the urban service district, but it's my understanding that we've authorized the Sheriff to hire five deputies, at least five deputies, that would be able to put out at least four to five crews, with the understanding that if somebody's out sick we wouldn't be able to put out a crew. And I raised a concern I guess the last time we went through this discussion on where those officers are, what those crews are doing, and I really haven't got a answer back yet in reference the inmate labor that we're supposed to be using. I understand that the cleanup is going well in the inner-city. I rode some Sunday. One of the biggest problems that I see is that individuals is putting leaves out that is not contained, dumping leaves out on the right-of- way. I think that whatever we do here we've got to send a message that we have a city ordinance against littering in the street, and to dump leaves out without having them in a box or a bag or a can or something where they can be picked up properly and to throw limbs out in the street or on the sidewalks at any time that they want to is not acceptable. It shouldn't be acceptable by this govern-ment or any other government. I'm sure it wasn't acceptable by the last government. So that's my position on it. And I certainly would like to know where the inmates and the guards are before I can support it, and I certainly can't support this growth. MR. BEARD: Mr. Mayor and Mr. Todd, if you would remember that the Sanitation Department was cut back to about 25/23 people last year. Those people have not been replaced, and this is one of the reasons we ask that they be replaced. And that committee approved that those people be replaced, and we ask that because of the trash and the debris that has been piled up in the streets and on the right-of-ways in the urban area, mostly in the urban area and partly in the suburban area, and this is why we ask that we come back up to full strength. And this was explained in the committee meeting, that we were able to come back up to full strength and make it possible so that the debris and the trash could be picked up. And for the other question that you asked about, the deputies, if you'll notice, they are out there and the inmates are cleaning the area. We had about two to three crews out there this week cleaning areas, and they are doing a commendable job in cleaning it. And you're right that the public need to be educated that they should not put the heavy debris out there as the mattresses, the sofas, and other items that they're putting out there on the right-of-way. They are putting those items out there -- as soon as we can clean it up, they're putting them right back out there. I don't know the answer to that. I don't know how you educate the public to that other than what we are doing here or through the media that this is not the proper place to put that. On the other hand, you must remember that we went up on the fees at the landfill, and this is creating a problem. And we spoke to this previously, that this was going to create a problem, and this may be part of the problem, because I really felt that we shouldn't have gone up on those fees at the landfill. And people have a hard time trying to get out there. It's quite a distance out there, and a lot of people in the urban areas would have to rent a truck to get out there, then they have to pay the $7 fee or the $2 fee after they get out there, so this is a burden also. So I think it's a matter of working together. But I would say that the inmates are out there now and they're working and they are -- the Sanitation Department, they have enough people now to possibly get up some of the trash and let's keep our city a little cleaner. MR. J. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, I'm planning on supporting this motion, but I think it needs to be amended to that it stays within the existing budget of the Sanitation Department now or either we identify a source of the funds to be used. MR. BEARD: We already agreed on that, Mr. Brigham, within the committee meeting. MR. J. BRIGHAM: I wanted to make sure it was stated in this meeting. MAYOR SCONYERS: Do y'all accept that? MR. POWELL: Yes, sir, I will. MAYOR SCONYERS: Good. Okay. Mr. Zetterberg? MR. ZETTERBERG: I have two points. One is, it's my understanding although the inmates are out with the --picking up the streets, that we no longer have an inmate crew with the Parks -- I mean, with the Trees Department. Is that true? MR. BEARD: I think that they are being utilized wherever needed at this point. With the Trees and Parks, they were supposed to be in the cemetery areas. There was supposed to be a crew in there, but I think Mr. Hartley and Barry Smith, they are able to utilize this wherever --the inmates wherever they're possible, and I just hope that would continue. MR. ZETTERBERG: I'd like to hear from Mr. Smith on that issue. MR. SMITH: The Sheriff's Department has been assisting us in the cemetery -- Trees and Parks Department. Since April 12th, I guess, they've been in the cemetery 12 days. So they've helped, but it seems like they grow back up by the time they get back around. So they have been helping. They haven't been, since May 12, back to the cemetery or Trees and Parks, but we never have really had them to help with the boulevard maintenance. But I've appreciated what they have done, and I'd appreciate more help in the future. MR. ZETTERBERG: I was under the understanding that we were trying to make this somewhat of a permanent detail so we wouldn't have these peaks and valleys. MR. SMITH: Well, that would be ideal. Unfortunately, that's not the way it's been, but hopefully in the future it'll improve. But the cemeteries aren't -- a regular crew is not in the cemetery, but I think they have other priorities possibly, and -- with trash on the street, but I'm ready for them to stay in the cemeteries on a rotational, full-time basis. So whatever can be worked out between the priorities of cemeteries and the trash on the street, I'm certainly ready to let them be in the cemeteries more. MR. ZETTERBERG: Mr. Mayor, I think that we're in a position now that one week we'll be complaining about trash and the next week we're going to complain about grass in the cemetery. I think we ought to take a long-term view of this and see what's the best for our government and how we resource those things, and I'd strongly recommend that you appoint a subcommittee to take a look at this to see if we can once and for all resolve this situation because it's going to keep coming. MR. SMITH: Well, not to lengthen the conversation, but I think if we had a ten-man crew to rotate from Westview to Mag-nolia to Cedar Grove, just rotationally going five days a week, then we can keep the cemeteries in fine order. But right now, by the time they leave Westview and go to Magnolia and go to Cedar Grove, Westview is in horrible order, so there's a big lag here. MR. BEARD: Mr. Mayor? MAYOR SCONYERS: Hold it now. Mr. Powell is next, then Mr. Todd, and then Mr. Beard. Mr. Powell? MR. POWELL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, I just want to state that inmate labor has been a lot of help to us out there in the area of -- the urban area, however, inmate labor has its handicaps. Inmate labor has to be worked in groups, and they have to be guarded groups. What we need is these temporary people in order to help us with being able to work in more areas, to operate equipment, because we're working inmate labor in groups of 10 or 15 and they all have to stay in one place, and that's a disadvantage to us. I think if we'll utilize the inmate labor along with the temporary employees we can correct the problem that we have, and I just would like to urge each and every one of you to go along with this temporary employees because we definitely need to clean up the city. And we've really looked at this hard and we think it's the best solution. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, certainly I don't have a problem with cleaning up the city. My question is the same as it was last meeting, have we hired five guards to six guards that would authorize us to put out 40 to 48 men, and if so, where those men are being worked. And I think that if we're -- you know, when we started this debate there was individuals that come into the Public Works meeting over at Public Works, the first committee meeting, and proposed that we hire for Sanitation to bring us back up to where we're at pre-'96, or pre-'95 maybe when the cuts was made. We debated whether we needed inmate labor at that point or whether we could use inmate labor to do the job or whether we wanted to go and hire folks to do it. We hired, my understanding, five men. So the question is simple, if we haven't hired the five men, then I stand to be corrected. If we hired the five men and we put 40 men out in the street, then certainly I'd like to know where they're at, how they're working, how they're functioning -- some feedback. I don't -- you know, there's other problems here, too, even to the extent of what committee is doing what, but I can live with that as long as we are going to know where those men are and how it's functioning, and also that we're going to enforce the ordinance that deals with the trash. Now, if anybody can just take leaves and dump them out in front of their yard and we're going to have men to come along with pitchforks and pick them up, or rakes and shovels, then you're never going to catch up; you're going to have to hire 100 men to stay up. So we need some enforcement as far as those codes go, too, as far as the limbs and leaves and when they are put out and how they are put out. MAYOR SCONYERS: Mr. Todd, I just checked with Chief Hatfield and he assured me they already have the five guards and they are out working as we speak. MR. TODD: We shouldn't have a problem then, Mr. Mayor. MR. BEARD: Mr. Mayor, I just wanted to add that the Public Works Department should take -- and I think they will -- take this and make some long-range plans and suggestions for that and work with the Sheriff's Department on this, and I think we ought to see some results in that. We do need long-range plans and I can agree with that, but I think it need to be coming now from the Public Works Department and working out those plans and getting some objectives and get some organization in that, and I call for the question after that. MR. MAYS: Mr. Mayor? I just want -- Barry sat back down, but I just wanted to ask him one thing. And I know the problem you're going through with that rotation, but what's probably your status right now on the, say, catching up of some things other than just cleaning that where when you didn't have the staffing to deal with in the cemeteries? I know there are some things, you know, to get done in there to at least to bring up to speed before you could even just do your normal maintenance. Have we gotten to that point with all three with where you were there? MR. SMITH: We're getting there, but I think if we just had ten inmates to go from cemetery to cemetery we could get it all done and everybody would be happy. Father's Day was last Sunday, and the complaints just poured in because I haven't had inmates since May 12th. So we're at a point to where if we keep cutting the grass with inmates we can please the public. There's a lot of herbicide spraying that doesn't take a whole lot of men, but it's just mowing the grass. And the inmates can knock it out in three days per cemetery, but then they just need to go back to the first cemetery and start all over again. But we're at a point to where it's going well if we had more inmates. MR. MAYS: And, you know, I hope my colleagues won't take it as a conflict in terms of probably talking about cemeteries on a special needs from a funeral director's standpoint, but I was out of town for Father's Day, but the complaints didn't stop, they were here when I got back. And there are some special needs that are in there because you have in some situations where you have an entrustment where there are no complainants to a point that where elderly people where both persons may be deceased and husband and wife, whatever, that there is nobody to speak in that process. And I think we should be reminded that regardless of what the minimum fee was, even though we clean the whole cemetery, there still is a perpetual care fund that was established for all three of those cemeteries to where there have been some placed-aside monies, and I think we have a responsibility probably there or maybe on a priority setting to make sure that they are cleaned, if nothing else, due to State of Georgia Secretary of State regulations in dealing with perpetual care. And I just wanted to throw that out there. It's not a threat, but, you know, I think when we start talking about, you know, who has placed some money in a trust situation, that even though it may have been minimum when some of those folks started it, it was there based on a trust situation within the existing City of Augusta that those things would be maintained. And those are there in Magnolia, they're there in Cedar Grove, and they're there in Westview, and I think because of that status you probably do have some priority setting that we need to make sure that that's kept done. And I just wanted to put that in there for the record to a point that that shouldn't continue to be a constant problem and we need to give you that help in doing that. Not that anyone is more important than the other one, but I think that when you have that situation that's there, because of the perpetual care funds, then we have an obligation to keep those situations up, legally. MAYOR SCONYERS: Thank you, Mr. Mays. All in favor of Mr. Beard's motion to hire the 18 temporaries, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MR. TODD VOTES NO. MOTION CARRIES 9-1. MAYOR SCONYERS: Next item, please. CLERK: Item 24 is to consider approval of an option to purchase right- of-way known as Area D, Parcel 8 of the Barton Chapel Road Intersection & Drainage Improvement Project. MR. HANDY: Move for approval. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Handy -- MR. POWELL: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: -- seconded by Mr. Powell. Discussion, gentlemen? All in favor of Mr. Handy's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 10-0. MAYOR SCONYERS: Item 25, please. CLERK: To consider approval of condemnation of Parcel 6, Area B of the Barton Chapel Road Intersection & Drainage Improvement Project. MR. HANDY: Move for approval. MR. POWELL: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: Motion by Mr. Handy, seconded by Mr. Powell. Discussion, gentlemen? All in favor of Mr. Handy's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 10-0. MAYOR SCONYERS: Item 26. CLERK: Item 26: Consider approval of an option to purchase Parcel 28 of the Raes Creek Channel Improvement Project. MR. J. BRIGHAM: Move for approval. MR. POWELL: Move for approval. MR. HANDY: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: Who made the motion? I heard several voices there. MR. POWELL: I think it was Mr. Brigham. MAYOR SCONYERS: Okay, Mr. Brigham, and seconded by Mr. Handy. MR. HANDY: That's good. That was Raes Creek, so you can imagine where it came from. MAYOR SCONYERS: Discussion, gentlemen? All in favor of Mr. Brigham's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 10-0. CLERK: Item 27: Consider approval of a request from the Environmental Engineer regarding further investigation of the White Road service station leading underground storage tank. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I so move. MR. POWELL: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Todd, seconded by who, please? MR. POWELL: Second by Mr. Powell. MAYOR SCONYERS: By Mr. Powell. Further discussion, gentlemen? All in favor of Mr. Todd's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 10-0. CLERK: Item 28 is to consider approval of a request from the Environmental Engineer regarding surveying services for locating the methane monitoring wells installed at the Deans Bridge Road Landfill. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I so move. MR. HANDY: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: Motion by Mr. Todd, seconded by Mr. Handy. Further discussion, gentlemen? All in favor of Mr. Todd's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 10-0. CLERK: Item 29: Consider approval of the revised agreement between the City of North Augusta and Augusta-Richmond County regarding the Material Recovery Facility. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I so move. MR. HANDY: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: Motion by Mr. Todd, seconded by Mr. Handy. Further discussion, gentlemen? MR. BRIDGES: Mr. Mayor, I'd like to know what the agreement is. MAYOR SCONYERS: Okay, Mr. Bridges. Jim? MR. WALL: And I walked out and left my copy sitting on my table, and I hope -- Jim, do you have your copy? Is it $2.33? MR. LEIPER: I don't recall off the top of my head. MAYOR SCONYERS: Is Drew here? Maybe he knows. MR. WALL: Mr. Bridges, while we're looking, basically there was a slight increase in the per customer charge, and -- MR. GOINS: 1.33 plus the [inaudible], as I recall. I don't have a copy with me. MR. WALL: All right. It was an increase from 1.25 to 1.33, and then there was an additional --because of the transportation cost, North Augusta had sold the trucks and other things that were being used to transport the excess that could not be recycled back to the landfill. There was an amortization of those costs through the balance of the term of the contract, which would result in an additional 11 cents, so it's $1.33 plus 11 cents, or $1.44 per customer. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, the committee that worked on this was Mr. Goins, Mr. Dillard -- and I may leave someone out -- I believe the gentleman from the Sanitation Department and Mr. Leiper and Mr. Smith, and certainly I think we have a good proposal here in the sense that we continue our recycling as far as the urban district go. The waste stream, instead of going to a Screaming Eagle, will now come to the Richmond County landfill. And it will mean -- I know we're taking money out of one pocket and putting in another, but it beats taking it out of one pocket and sending it to South Carolina or to New York City. And what we're doing now is that we are keeping the money in the community because we are using our landfill versus a landfill that's owned by a private concern somewhere else, so that's the big winner here, and it's a win-win situation for Richmond County, the city, and North Augusta. MAYOR SCONYERS: Further discussion, gentlemen? All in favor of Mr. Todd's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 10-0. MAYOR SCONYERS: Item 30, please. CLERK: Items 30 through 43 were all approved by the Public Services Committee on June 11th, 1996, with no objectors present. MR. MAYS: Mr. Mayor, I'd like to make a motion that items 30 through 43, subject to the fact that if there being no objec-tors on the alcohol license, that they be approved by this body. MR. HANDY: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: Motion by Mr. Handy, seconded by -- I mean, excuse me, by Mr. Mays, seconded by Mr. Handy. Do we have objectors present to anything? [No response] Mr. Beard? MR. BEARD: Mr. Mayor, I would just like to know where -- in Number 33, to Mr. Mays, where is that located? Exactly where is that? Is that next to the church up there on Milledgeville Road? MR. MAYS: No, that's further out, Mr. Beard. That's over in Mr. Brigham's district, but it's further out Milledgeville Road. I know the one that you're thinking about, where the reconstruction -- it's not that one. MR. BEARD: Okay. MAYOR SCONYERS: Further discussion, gentlemen? MR. BRIDGES: Mr. Mayor, I'll support the motion with the exception of those that contain Sunday sales. MAYOR SCONYERS: Is that so noted, ladies? CLERK: Yes, sir. MR. POWELL: Mr. Chairman, I'd like the record to also reflect the same. MAYOR SCONYERS: Mr. Powell's the same. Further discussion, gentlemen? All in favor of Mr. Mays' motion to approve, let it be known by raising your hand, please. [Item 30: Consider approval of a request by Teresa M. Bonds for a retail package beer & wine license to be used in connection with Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. located at 3209 Deans Bridge Road. District 4, Super District 9. Item 31: Consider approval of a request from Robin Cartwright for a consumption on premises liquor, beer & wine license to be used in connection with Garden City Bowl located at 1241 Gordon Highway. There will be Sunday sales. District 1, Super District 9. Item 32: Consider approval of a request from Robin Cartwright for a consumption on premises liquor, beer & wine license to be used in connection with Masters Lanes located at 1810 Gordon Highway. There will be Sunday sales. District 5, Super District 9. Item 33: Consider approval of a request from Ki Chun Kim for a retail package beer & wine license to be used in connection with Milledgeville Convenience Store located at 2517 Milledgeville Road. District 5, Super District 9. Item 34: Consider approval of a request from Roger W. Pollock for a retail package liquor, beer & wine license to be used in connection with Washington Walk Liquor Store located at 2801 Washington Road. District 7, Super District 10. Item 35: Consider approval of a request from Cho Sun Chon for a consumption on premises liquor, beer & wine license to be used in connection with Sit-N-Bull Lounge located at 3663 Deans Bridge Road. There will be a dance hall. District 6, Super District 10. Item 36: Consider approval of a request from Ae Ree Seo for a consumption on premises liquor, beer & wine license to be used in connection with Shogun Restaurant located at 3043 Washington Road. There will be Sunday sales. District 7, Super District 10. Item 37: Consider approval of a request from Sok Yong Kim for a retail package beer license to be used in connection with Greene Street Market located at 464 Greene Street. District 1, Super District 9. Item 38: Consider approval of a request by Michelle Leigh Price to transfer the consumption on premises liquor, beer & wine license to be used in connection with Copperfields Restaurant and Lounge located at 13645 Gordon Highway. There will be Sunday sales and a dance hall. Formerly in the name of Carolyn Anne Tyson. District 1, Super District 9. Item 39: Consider approval of a request from Ollie W. Lee for a Sunday sales license to be used in connection with Private "I" Restaurant & Lounge located at 2507 Thomas Lane. This location is currently licensed for consumption on premises liquor, beer & wine. District 5, Super District 9. Item 40: Consider approval of a request from the Director of License and Inspections to advertise for bids for the demolition and clearing of the condemned structures located at 2843 Deans Bridge Road (Cadles Motel, Map 85-4, Parcel 66). Item 41: Consider approval of contracts between Augusta-Richmond County and Douglas Moore, Terrence Perkins, John E. (Eddie) Lord, Erin Marsingill, Dustin Woods, Charles Murphy, John R. Griganow, Taylor Tom, Maurice Johnson, John Ellis, and LaTasha Stokes for their services as officiants in sporting events sponsored by the Augusta-Richmond County Recreation Department. Item 42: Consider approval of a proposed Resolution exempting Augusta-Richmond County from a recently enacted State Law allowing self-inspection by plumbers. Item 43: Consider approval of a Resolution authorizing the Commissioners of Augusta-Richmond County to enter into an Agreement with East Georgia Easter Seal Society, Inc. with regard to a "Fantasy of Lights" display at Pendleton King Park during the Christmas holiday season.] MR. BRIDGES AND MR. POWELL VOTE NO ON ITEMS 31, 32, 36, 38. MOTION CARRIES 8-2, ITEMS 31, 32, 36, 38. MOTION CARRIES 10-0, ITEMS 30, 33-35, 37, 39-43. CLERK: Item 44: Consider approval of the minutes of the Augusta- Richmond County Commission-Council meeting held on June 4, 1996. MR. HANDY: So move. MR. H. BRIGHAM: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Handy, seconded by Mr. Brigham. Further discussion, gentlemen? All in favor of Mr. Handy's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 10-0. CLERK: 45: Consider approval of a proposed Ordinance to limit the County's payments to the Coliseum Authority to which the law mandates which limits the County's obligation to 30 percent of revenues derived from the Beer Tax. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I so move that we approve the amended ordinance, and I believe Mr. Wall have a copy of the amended ordinance with him. And the amendment, Mr. Mayor, is that we wouldn't stop the tax for 90 days from the date that we have the second reading, and that's in the form of a motion. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Todd, do I have a second? MR. BRIDGES: I'll second. MAYOR SCONYERS: Is that Mr. Kuhlke or Mr. Bridges? MR. BRIDGES: That's mine. MAYOR SCONYERS: All right. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I'd also like to send along with this to the Coliseum Authority that we certainly expect the Coliseum Authority to come up with a short-range and long-range plan, and -- if they want consideration in the future as far as the monies in question. And I think it's essential that they have goals and objectives that's going to take them to where 60% of the coliseums are in this country, at a break even, and certainly I'd like to convey that to them. It's not a part of this motion, but as a comment and communication. MAYOR SCONYERS: Further discussion, gentlemen? MR. POWELL: Yes, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I have some concerns on this, and what my concerns are is we had the Coliseum Authority in yesterday for a meeting and we gave them 60 days to come back with a plan, is what I thought. Which it was not voted on, but I'd just like to know if we've given consideration to possibly sending the Internal Auditor over there to audit the records of the Coliseum Authority before we make a rash or hasty decision to see if there is any improprieties going on there. MR. BEARD: Mr. Mayor, I'm going to vote against this, and I think I need to qualify it. Because after listening yesterday, and for the first time -- and as I stated yesterday, that this is the first time that we've had communication with the Coliseum Authority, and I think that before we begin to take away money from them, I think that we ought to give them consideration and time to work out their differences. And if they don't do that, then I think that I will be in favor of doing just what Mr. Todd has asked here. And I don't think we've ever had an audit to review that situation, an audit to really review that situation and see how things really are over there, and I think this needs to be done first before we take steps like this. I think we're all looking for physical responsibility over there, fiscal responsibility over there, and I think we ought to give them time to do that before we start taking other measures. MR. ZETTERBERG: My concern is not in auditing the -- I haven't had a chance to look at the books. I won't claim that I'm an internal auditor. The problem was not in expenses; the expenses have been rather stable. The problem is in the lack of revenue, and the lack of revenue, in my opinion, is because of the lack of planning on the Coliseum Authority's part and the management of the Coliseum. They have no plan, I'm not too sure they ever had a plan, and I think we have to show some resolve today that we intend them to deliver a plan and that we're going to hold the money until they decide to come up with a plan and serve the citizens well. I'm satisfied that we did talk to them on Monday, and that's the reason why I didn't vote last time. Brought them in to discuss it, I heard what I heard, and I've decided that they need a little bit more teeth be taken in this particular issue. MR. J. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, as far as an audit, the Coliseum Authority has its own CPA and I certainly don't think we need to send another CPA to review another CPA's work, first off. The other thing is this is not a ordinance that I particular like, it's one I'm going to support because we need to move on with this matter, and I understand that this is one that can be supported and that it will do what I wanted to accomplish to start with. MR. H. BRIGHAM: I'd just like to maybe ask a question and then make a comment. I know Mr. Todd mentioned someplace about the 90 days, and I wanted to know is this the first reading or is this considered as the second and final reading where we act on this today. Certainly I think the Coliseum committee came over yesterday in good faith, and they might not have given the answers that we wanted to hear, but I think they were sincere and honest in what they did say. They didn't try to -- as far as I could tell, try to hide anything. And it seems to me that if they came in good faith -- we invited them to come, and I thought the understanding we could not vote on it, that they would come back at a later date to let us know how far they've gone and if they've gotten another manager or what they have done. But I would hope that we would give them that courtesy to --since we did invite them to come over, and I'd hope that we would also give them some more time to bring their plans back to us. And their honesty is -- to me, if you make a mistake -- and they admitted it right off that they didn't have a plan. It appears to me that you cannot just go and just beat it, beat it, over and over because of that, and cer- tainly I would like to see us give more time in this situation. MR. HANDY: Mr. Mayor, I would like to put in the form of a motion, since they was here on yesterday and we had an opportunity to communicate with them, and they gave us some ideas of some things they were thinking about and then we gave them some directive what we would like to see. And if we're giving them 90 days -- 60 days, rather, to come back, I don't think it'd be right for us to go make a move not knowing what they're coming back with. We still could keep the ordinance intact. The ordinance is not going anyplace. When they come back to us within 60 days that we have given them, asked them to come back with a plan, if the plan is not acceptable to this body I'll be willing to support Mr. Todd's ordinance. But it doesn't make sense to give them 60 days to go out and come back to us with an idea of what your plans are going to be and then we come back here today and take action before we give them opportunity to come back and explain themselves. MAYOR SCONYERS: Is that in the form of a substitute motion, Mr. Handy? MR. HANDY: Yes, sir. MAYOR SCONYERS: Do I hear a second to Mr. Handy's motion? MR. H. BRIGHAM: I'll second. MAYOR SCONYERS: Mr. Brigham? Okay. Further discussion, gentlemen? MR. TODD: Yes, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, certainly I think Ray Charles could see that that was a snow job yesterday by the Coliseum Authority, and certainly you'd had to been out of town, out of country, and not read the morning's paper to realize, you know, that it seems that there was -- you know, what happened here and what happened before and what I understand happened this morning over there, that we have some serious problems. We can either deal with those problems or we can toy with those problems like they toyed with us yesterday. That's exactly what the Coliseum Authority come over here and done. They had -- the only plan that they ever had as far as I know was the plan to snow us yesterday, and they went back to their meeting today and they made no headway as far as a plan go. I don't even think they discussed a plan as far as a short-range or long-range plan. So it's my position that I'm going to vote for this ordinance. I've compromised with some individuals on putting a 90 day on it versus immediately. They got together on their strategy on how much money they had and how long it could last, you know, and the two million -- approximately two million dollars, that the CPA was instructed to come over here and tell us less than the truth. I wouldn't have a problem with that if it was just information that he arrived with and he did a report to us, but there was ten questions that I raised and one of them, the last one, the tenth one, was how would cutting the 30% impact the Coliseum Authority. He said they could operate approximately ten months. I also understand that he told the Finance Committee that they could operate approximately two years. Now, I'm not a CPA. I know that figures don't lie; sometimes, you know, liars figure, and they're going to have to answer which one that is, you know. I don't see sending our CPA over. I think that the proper thing for all of them to do over there is turn in their resignation to their respective appointees and we resolve this issue and get some folks over there that can be accountable and run the Coliseum and Civic Center. I don't want to shut down the Civic Center and Bell Auditorium, but also as a elected official and as the one that's responsible for the accountability over there, you know, in the end results, I don't intend to sit here and toy with them either and play games with them. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. MR. KUHLKE: Mr. Wall, Mr. Brigham asked the question is this considered the second reading or the first reading since this is an amendment. MR. WALL: It would be my position that this is the second reading, because an ordinance can be amended up until its final adoption, so I would say this is the second. MR. KUHLKE: And the other thing is that we had requested the Coliseum Authority come back to us in 60 days, I think, and present us with a plan, so if this is adopted today, this is 30 days beyond the time that we've asked them to come back. And from reports that I've gotten today is while we had a civil meeting yesterday, this morning at the Coliseum Authority it was less than civil, and I'm going to support Mr. Todd's motion and not the substitute motion. MAYOR SCONYERS: Further discussion, gentlemen? MR. MAYS: Mr. Mayor? MR. HANDY: I call for the question. MAYOR SCONYERS: I think Mr. Mays beat you to it. MR. MAYS: I just wanted to ask Mr. Wall, would that stand even when there is no action taken on a first reading vote? MR. WALL: Yes, sir, it'd be my position that it would. And I'll tell you that there is no case authority, there's nothing in Robert's Rules that I can find, and I'm basing this opinion upon the procedure employed by the General Assembly. The General Assembly requires three readings. They take no action -- do not take a vote on the first and second reading, that those are considered readings of the proposed Georgia statutes, and I'm following that practice in rendering an opinion that it is -- I think it's the second reading because the purpose of the two readings is to put the public on notice that it is being considered. And that was done by virtue of the first reading that was had at the last Commission-Council meeting, and they've had an opportunity to have whatever citizen input that they want during the interim between that date and today's vote, and that's the reason that I take the position this is the second reading of the ordinance. MR. MAYS: And since you've been away on vacation and you have nothing to back that up, I'm going to respect your opinion today. But I wanted to comment, Mr. Mayor, on one thing very briefly. I just hope that we are not getting into a throwing-the-baby-out-with-the-bath-water situation in dealing with this. Obviously there are some serious personality problems that exist over there at that Authority that are not changing, and my main concern is in keeping it open if they are coming back with a plan, if there is not one and one is forthcoming. I think we'll either see one or not. I would hope that whichever one of these motions pass, that obviously if we're going to be taking away that source of funding, pass that which deals with the bonded indebtedness, that maybe we start coming up with a plan of our own to deal with promotions if we're fixing to get directly in that business. Because if we're not removing the personalities that exist, if that seems to be where the problem is, then extracting the funding to deal with the facility's use is not going to cure that if you've got those persons there. And I personally think that the people that you're punishing gets down to the general public and this whole community when you endanger the fact of maybe shutting down the operations of what you're doing, and that's just a personal observance with it. And I also look at what may have been within the spirit of the original tax proposal in terms of doing that subsidy. I've heard back-and-forth accusations from that Authority; I've even heard them from comments made to us about whether or not other entities around the state are operating on a profitable basis. And I think that if you would search not only throughout Georgia but in some other places as well, there are a lot of places that are having a non-property tax situation that do support civic centers and coliseums. And that's not to say that there should not be a permanent plan or a better plan to get out of the situation that they are in, but I think for that reason the spirit of that tax was devised to do as such where we are today, and you're in essence changing what the General Assembly adopted for us to use as a funding source. And I have a problem when we say cutting off more than what they deserve. Well, obviously there was a deserving factor when the law was passed and where it was in there. And they've been through three managers or such now and a lot of disarray that's there. And I think that I was -- I was out of town, so I was not one that was absent-minded on that day, Moses, I was absent from Augusta. But at the same fact that if you're going to have folk that are going to come back with a plan, I would at least like to at least see what that plan is. And then if it's nothing there of any substance, then I think we deal with the people who are there and not punish the entity that serves, and the entity serves the entire community. And I plan to vote for the substitute motion even though it probably will not pass. MR. HANDY: Call for the question, Mr. Mayor. MAYOR SCONYERS: Thank you, Mr. Handy. Do we need the substitute motion read, gentlemen? MR. TODD: Yes, Mr. Mayor. I request that both motions be read, and I call for a roll call vote. MAYOR SCONYERS: Thank you, Mr. Todd. MS. WATSON: The substitute motion made by Mr. Handy, seconded by Henry Brigham, if an acceptable plan is not submitted by the Coliseum Authority within 60 days, then they would go back to this original ordinance and approve it. MAYOR SCONYERS: Okay. You want to go ahead and read the other motion, too, please? MS. WATSON: Okay. The original motion made by Mr. Todd, seconded by Mr. Bridges, is to approve the ordinance as written, not effective for 90 days from date of approval. MAYOR SCONYERS: Okay, gentlemen, we're going to vote on the substitute motion -- MR. KUHLKE: I've got one question. The substitute motion says go back to the original ordinance, not the amended ordinance. Is that what you meant, Freddie? MR. HANDY: No, the one that's on hand today. MS. WATSON: I think he also meant to include the 90 days from date of approval. MR. HANDY: Yes. Right. MAYOR SCONYERS: Okay, gentlemen, we're going to vote on the substitute motion first, starting to my left. MR. TODD: No, Mr. Mayor. MAYOR SCONYERS: No from Mr. Todd. CLERK: Okay. Mr. Jerry Brigham? MR. J. BRIGHAM: No. CLERK: Mr. Mays? MR. MAYS: Yes. CLERK: Mr. Henry Brigham? MR. H. BRIGHAM: Yes. MR. KUHLKE: Mr. Kuhlke's over here. CLERK: Mr. Kuhlke? I'm sorry. MR. KUHLKE: No. CLERK: Mr. Rob Zetterberg? MR. ZETTERBERG: No. CLERK: Mr. Lee Beard? MR. BEARD: Yes. CLERK: Mr. J.B. Powell? MR. POWELL: No. CLERK: Mr. Freddie Handy? MR. HANDY: Yes. CLERK: Mr. Ulmer Bridges? MR. BRIDGES: No. MOTION FAILS 6-4. MAYOR SCONYERS: Six no's; four yes's. Back to the original motion. CLERK: Mr. Todd? MR. TODD: Yes. CLERK: Mr. Jerry Brigham? MR. J. BRIGHAM: Yes. CLERK: Mr. Mays? MR. MAYS: No. CLERK: Mr. Kuhlke? MR. KUHLKE: Yes. CLERK: Mr. Henry Brigham? MR. H. BRIGHAM: No. CLERK: Mr. Rob Zetterberg? MR. ZETTERBERG: Yes. CLERK: Mr. Lee Beard? MR. BEARD: No. CLERK: Mr. Powell? MR. POWELL: No. CLERK: Mr. Freddie Handy? MR. HANDY: No. CLERK: Mr. Ulmer Bridges? MR. BRIDGES: Yes. [Vote ties 5-5.] MAYOR SCONYERS: I'm going to vote no because I think we need to give them more time. MOTION CARRIES 6-5. CLERK: At the request of the Sheriff's Department, we're going to take Item 2 on the additions, the purchase of the emergency 911 equipment for the new facility. Request approval. MR. H. BRIGHAM: I move for approval. MR. MAYS: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Brigham, seconded by Mr. Mays. Discussion, gentlemen? All in favor of Mr. Brigham's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 9-0. [MR. HANDY OUT] CLERK: The next item is to consider approval of an Ordinance to establish User Fees for the Augusta-Richmond County Landfill. Second Reading. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I so move to approve. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Todd, do I hear a second to Mr. Todd's motion? MR. KUHLKE: I'll second. MAYOR SCONYERS: Seconded by Mr. Kuhlke. Further discussion, gentlemen? MR. BEARD VOTES NO; MR. HANDY OUT. MOTION CARRIES 8-1. CLERK: Item 47 is discussion of the Emergency Ambulance Service for Augusta-Richmond County. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, certainly I read the letter from University and have some serious reservations about why they would insist that they do it their way versus do it the way that we suggested, and it's my position that in giving them consideration for being the emergency medical provider as far as ambulance service over the last 20 years and that they are an outstanding institution that's done a good job there, that the responsibility as far as making sure that we live up to and go by the state procurement statute is Richmond County's. And it's my position that we should certainly, if we're going to let them go out and subcontract, that we should set the criteria for at least the specs to an extent of the criteria of the process, that it be competitive here in this board. So I'm going to make a motion that we direct University to go out for competitive bidding -- or competitive proposals, rather, correc-tion, for the emergency ambulance service for Richmond County. MAYOR SCONYERS: Is that in the form of a motion, Mr. Todd? MR. TODD: Yes, Mr. Mayor, it is. MR. J. BRIGHAM: I'll second that motion. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Todd, seconded by Mr. Brigham. Further discussion, gentlemen? MR. POWELL: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a substitute motion that we accept the proposal from University Hospital. MR. BRIDGES: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a substitute motion by Mr. Powell, seconded by Mr. Bridges. Further discussion, gentlemen? MR. J. BRIGHAM: I'll ask for a roll call vote, Mr. Mayor. MAYOR SCONYERS: Okay, the substitute motion first. MR. HANDY: Mr. Mayor, we're voting on this letter that we received or we're voting on what we was talking about last week about putting out proposals to accept the whole entire ambulance service? MAYOR SCONYERS: Why don't I have the motions read. MR. HANDY: Okay. Thank you. MAYOR SCONYERS: Please read the motions. MS. WATSON: Substitute motion by Mr. Powell, seconded by Mr. Bridges, to accept University Hospital's proposal. Original motion by Mr. Todd, seconded by Jerry Brigham, to direct University Hospital to go out for competitive proposals for ambulance service. MAYOR SCONYERS: Does that answer your question for you? MR. HANDY: Yes, sir. MAYOR SCONYERS: The substitute motion first. CLERK: Okay, we'll start with Mr. Bridges. MR. BRIDGES: I vote in favor of the substitute motion. MR. ZETTERBERG: I have a question if we're going to vote on both of those. On the first proposal, does that mean that University Hospital is the executive agent for us? How is it -- are they going to go out for competitive bids? Who's going to evaluate the bids? What's our role in it? I think there's a lot of things that need to be discussed to flesh out that proposal before we vote on it. I wouldn't have a problem voting on the second one unless you all want to know what the real proposal is here. MAYOR SCONYERS: Mr. Wall, can you address that? That's for the original motion, is that what you're asking for? MR. ZETTERBERG: What I'm saying is I think the original motion in itself is not complete. I think there's some things that we have to specify in there if we're going to carry through on that. And there are some questions that I would have to ask, some of which I've already articulated. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor? Certainly, Mr. Mayor, I'd be glad to accept amendments to the original motion when we get around to the original motion. MR. ZETTERBERG: Okay. MR. WALL: If I understand, the substitute motion is to accept the proposal by University Hospital to subcontract to Rural/Metro under the subcontract agreement that has been there, so our relationship with University Hospital would be that of a contractual relationship. We would continue to have a contrac-tual relationship; they --University Hospital then would have a subcontract with Rural/Metro. We would look to University Hospital. MR. ZETTERBERG: That was for the substitute motion. MR. WALL: That's correct. MR. ZETTERBERG: And we're going to vote on that and we're going to vote on the original motion, too; right? MR. WALL: Presumably, yes. I mean, depending on whether the substitute motion -- MR. ZETTERBERG: If we were to vote on the original motion, then I just think that that needs to be fleshed out a little bit in discussion, or we could go ahead and vote on the -- MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I'd rather go through the discussion -- we had opportunity and we missed that window of opportunity to go through the discussion, so certainly I will accept amendments to the original motion that we set criteria further down the process. MR. ZETTERBERG: I would -- I'd like to see -- because University Hospital has garnered 20 years of experience in this business and knows a lot more than the Commission-Council does, that they become the executive agent for a competitive proposal, that they submit to us the criteria for the competitive bid, that we approve the criteria, and then they make a recommendation on who should be the contractor, the prime contractor, and then we finally approve that. Two parts to that: one is they tell us what the criteria for it so that we can assure that the citizens of this area are considered in the proposal, their best interest, and then we have the final approval after their recommendation of who is the contractor, then we will make the final decision. MAYOR SCONYERS: All right. That's an amendment to Mr. Todd's motion? Do you accept that, Mr. Todd? MR. TODD: Accepted, Mr. Mayor. MAYOR SCONYERS: Mr. Brigham? MR. J. BRIGHAM: I'll accept it. MR. BRIDGES: Mr. Mayor, I've got a question. Don't we have to vote on the substitute motion first before we -- MAYOR SCONYERS: First. Exactly right. MR. BEARD: Mr. Mayor, really I think what all this boils down to is that we need to look out for what is best for this community and who is going to offer the best service for this community, and right now if I, you know, have to vote, I'm not sure of that question at this time. And I'm not quite sure on what Mr. Zetterberg said or if he offered a substitute motion or not, but I think the thing is that, to me, there is some more dialogue needed and a little more explanation needed as to what we're getting into, and I think at this time I don't personally have enough information to vote one way or the other. And I probably will vote for the -- the only thing I can vote for at this time is the best service for the people of Richmond County, and I think in order for me to do that I would need some more information on this and the proposal that they just -- the letter that they sent today and who is offering the best service for this county. Because I've heard -- in the last week we've heard a lot of information and we've been sent a lot of information about the different companies in this area, and I think some of that information need to be verified. MAYOR SCONYERS: Mr. Handy, did you want to say something? MR. HANDY: Yes, sir. I'd like to ask, how long does this contract -- how would the contract be for? MR. ZETTERBERG: Under the Rural/Metro they were asking for, what, five years, and I don't believe we can even do that. There's some question about that. MR. WALL: Let me point out we're not entering into a contract with Rural/Metro. The only thing we are doing is approving the contract. The contract which we have with University Hospital can be terminated according to the provisions of that contract, and that's the only contract that we're entering into. If you approve the substitute motion, you're just saying that University Hospital can enter into a five-year contract, then it becomes their responsibility. MR. HANDY: The contract that we have with University Hospital, when will it expire? MR. WALL: It has an automatic renewal annually for one year. MR. HANDY: For what date, though? When is the renewal date for this year? MR. WALL: I think it's September the 30th, if I -- MR. HANDY: If we grant this request, then we cancel out University Hospital's contract, what they're going to do with Rural/Metro for the next four years? MR. WALL: They're going to have to terminate that contract. I mean, that becomes their responsibility, their obligation. MR. HANDY: Okay. Okay, I'm finished. MAYOR SCONYERS: You wanted to hear the date, didn't you? MR. HANDY: Yeah, I'm waiting for that, but I mean I'm finished, I don't have anything else to say. MR. WALL: All right, the agreement -- I think it actually went into place on July the 8th, 1972, and you had one-year renewals thereafter, and so service went into effect on July the 8th, 1972, so I guess July the 8th. MR. HANDY: July the 8th of this year it expires? MAYOR SCONYERS: That's upon 90 days notice. MR. WALL: Upon 90 days notice. But you could terminate at any point on 90 days notice. MR. H. BRIGHAM: Call for the question, Mr. Mayor. MAYOR SCONYERS: Substitute motion first, gentlemen. Now, does everybody understand what we're voting on or do you want it reread again? MR. HANDY: No, I need to know what I'm voting on. MAYOR SCONYERS: Miss Susan, please? MS. WATSON: The substitute motion made by Mr. Powell, seconded by Mr. Bridges, to accept University Hospital's proposal, which would be with Rural/Metro. MR. HANDY: Okay, the original motion. MS. WATSON: The original motion by Mr. Todd, seconded by Jerry Brigham, to direct University Hospital to go out for competitive proposals for ambulance service, and there are two -- MR. HANDY: And we had an amendment for -- MS. WATSON: Yes, sir, there were two amendments by Mr. Zetterberg. University Hospital would inform Augusta-Richmond County of the criteria for the ambulance service and Augusta-Richmond County Commission would have the final approval of the contract. MR. MAYS: Mr. Mayor, just for the record -- and you won't have to ring the time bell on me today. I think I probably am on record at the last committee maybe of having more minutes in that dialogue than the whole committee did, and I made my position pretty clear on the last two to three times that we talked about this. However, for the record, and I want to make sure I'm being very careful, and I can consult back with our own attorney, but on the advice of my own personal attorney, I am going to have to abstain, vote present on both motions due to possibility of future conflict that might be in there. And if our attorney needs that in writing for the record, I can put it in there for him. MAYOR SCONYERS: Okay, we'll have the roll call vote. CLERK: Mr. Bridges on the substitute motion? MR. BRIDGES: Yes. CLERK: Mr. Freddie Handy? MR. HANDY: Yes. CLERK: J.B. Powell? MR. POWELL: Yes. CLERK: Lee Beard? MR. BEARD: Yes. CLERK: Rob Zetterberg? MR. ZETTERBERG: No. CLERK: Henry Brigham? MR. H. BRIGHAM: Yes. CLERK: Bill Kuhlke? MR. KUHLKE: Yes. CLERK: Jerry Brigham? MR. J. BRIGHAM: No. CLERK: Moses Todd? MR. TODD: No. MOTION CARRIES 6-3-1. CLERK: Next item, 48: Discussion of the Franchise Agreement with Jefferson Electric. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I had this put on the agenda and I'm going to, as brief as I can, state why I requested it be put on the agenda for discussion. A little refresher: during the debate over consolidation and all the propaganda that was put out, it was said that consolidation would not cost the citizens and taxpayers of Richmond County any additional taxes or fees unless you lived in a service district. What we have is that the Jefferson Electric franchise agreement that we voted on in good conscious, with the understanding that this was supposed to be spread out over the users district wide of Jefferson Electric territory like Georgia Power and not to be a direct tax -- I think it's 3% -- on the Jefferson Electric users. The other thing that I'd like to point out is that when we're charging the citizens out in Jefferson Electric service district 3% franchise fee that's directly passed to them and 1% that's spread out throughout the service district, 75% of the utility poles, from my understanding, is actually located on private property -- on the property owners' property. And certainly when you look at the Tobacco Road corridor, that's the case. And this is information basically that is not in writing but certainly is from some Jefferson Electric officials and other citizens that's confirmed this. I have a hard time understanding how we're going to charge individuals a franchise fee for having poles on their private property if they're not on the county property. I seriously think that we have a problem that we need to correct, and in the sense that the County Attorney is familiar with the Jefferson Electric policies and their statutorial rights as far as putting poles on private property, et cetera, he may have some information to share there. I understand from talking to the County Attorney that whatever we charge Georgia Power we got to charge Jefferson Electric. That may put us in a catch-22 situation, but certainly it don't make us right. And I'll take Spanish Trace for an example. I have at least three families moving out of there because of this increase in a direct 3% franchise fee tax or whatever we want to call it on the citizens in my district in South Richmond. And certainly if we can't repeal this, if the law says we can't repeal it, then certainly I'm for designating the funds, especially that 3%, to go to the area in which pay it, and that is the Jefferson Electric area, to be used on intersection improvement, beautifi-cation, to go to Mr. Smith over at Trees and Parks, and to Street Lighting to put some street lights on the intersections through-out the Jefferson Electric service district. And those are my comments and thoughts, and I'll yield to the County Attorney. MR. WALL: I passed out a copy of the Georgia Statute 46-3-14 and would refer you to subparagraph (b) in particular. And basically that says that when you have the primary supplier and charge them at a certain rate, then any secondary supplier within that municipality has to be charged on the same, calculated and payable in the same manner and on the same basis as the primary carrier. Since Georgia Power Company is the primary supplier within Augusta- Richmond County, it would be my position and is my position that the secondary supplier, Jefferson Electric, would have to be charged on the same basis. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I guess my question to the County Attorney, then a motion to repeal would be out of order? MR. WALL: A motion to repeal would be out of order. MR. TODD: Well, I'm going to make a motion, Mr. Mayor, then that we contribute the 3% that the citizens pay directly to beautification and street lighting for the intersections of the Jefferson Electric service district, and that's in the form of a motion. MR. BRIDGES: I'll second that. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Todd, seconded by Mr. Bridges. Discussion, gentlemen? MR. J. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, if we're going to put this in -- if we're going to put 3% of the franchise fee that we collect in Jefferson Electric into beautification, who's going to pay for the increases in Public Safety that has already been passed by this Commission? I don't think we can put 3% of the franchise fee collected in the Jefferson district in beautification projects, and I will vote against it. MAYOR SCONYERS: Further discussion, gentlemen? MR. TODD: Yes, Mr. Mayor. I think when we look at Public Safety, certainly that come from the general fund and it's paid for by taxes. What we have here is, in my opinion, somewhat of a special tax district in the sense that the users in the same adjoining areas from Georgia Power don't pay directly that 3% increase. It's passed on and spread out throughout the state. The 3% is paid by the user and only 1% is spread out district wide, but the whole 4% is actually paid by the user, so I think it's important that we do something here to give these folks some relief, to at least give them something to appreciate that 3%. And I think the other issue is the matter of utilities that's on private property. You know, we got a double situation here of unfairness, and I think we need to take corrective action in some way. MR. BRIDGES: Mr. Mayor, I'd like to get the Attorney's opinion on this motion, whether it's legal or in line with the ordinance or whatever. MR. WALL: I think that you can dedicate the tax funds to a particular purpose. And Mr. Todd called me earlier today and I have not had a chance to research it, but my general feeling -- and I guess I would ask for time to perhaps thoroughly research it. You may want to pass it, if that's the desire of the Commission, pass it subject to verification that there's no legal impediment to doing it. But it would seem to me that you could, in essence, designate the area served by Jefferson Electric as a special tax district and dedicate the funds to use within that district. MR. KUHLKE: Mr. Mayor, I think before I could vote on this particular item -- and maybe Mr. Todd knows. How much money are you talking about here, Mr. Todd? MR. TODD: We're talking about, I believe, approximately 750/800 thousand dollars total, less the 1% of that or one-third of that that we're talking. Mr. Mayor, I realize also that this would have to be a ordinance and that -- and I would like to amend my motion to direct the County Attorney to draw up such ordinance. Because this certainly, in my opinion, would have to be a ordinance and we wouldn't -- this would not be the first reading, this would just be instructions to draw up the ordinance. MR. BEARD: Mr. Mayor, you know, I can understand where Mr. Todd is coming from and what he's trying to do here, but I would like to know a little more about this and get a better under-standing of what we're doing. We're talking about -- you know, we're just saying 3%. 3% of what amount, you know? And do we really need this in beautification or can we put it somewhere else? I think we just need a little more research here and coming up with something more definitive than just saying we're going to take 3% and put it in beautification. Mr. Todd always refer to long-range planning, and I think this is one of the things that we need to look at, long-range planning for this. And I have no objection to what he's talking about, but it's just the planning and giving it a little more consideration. MR. J. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, if we're going to make such a motion, I want to make a substitute motion that we take all franchise fees and put it in beautification projects then. MAYOR SCONYERS: I don't want to [inaudible], but y'all better think about that. MR. J. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, I agree with you the problem, but I don't think we ought to take one area of town and be preferential in it over another area of town. MAYOR SCONYERS: I agree with you. Okay, Mr. Brigham made a motion. Do I have a second to Mr. Brigham's motion? MR. POWELL: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion to table it. MR. KUHLKE: I'll second that. MAYOR SCONYERS: That's a non-debatable motion. Since Mr. Brigham didn't have a second to his, Mr. Powell's motion -- MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, a point of information from the Parliamentarian. Is there a time cap on the tabling? Are we talking next meeting or forever or? MR. POWELL: Mr. Todd, I'd like to table it for 30 days for further review. MAYOR SCONYERS: 30 day cap on it. MR. TODD: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. MAYOR SCONYERS: All in favor of Mr. Powell's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 10-0. MAYOR SCONYERS: Next item, please. CLERK: Item 49 is to consider approval of a Resolution setting a time limit regarding discussion of issues during meetings of the Commission- Council. MR. KUHLKE: Mr. Mayor, I move approval of that. MR. BRIDGES: Second it. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Kuhlke, seconded by Mr. Bridges. Further discussion, gentlemen? MR. TODD: Yes, Mr. Mayor, there is. And I'll stay within the two minutes. Mr. Mayor, I don't have a problem with this as long as we're going to do the same for citizens that's coming before the Commission, Commission members, et cetera, as far as any one issue. I've worked by the process and through the process, and I can go with five seconds or five minutes as long as that applies to everybody and it's done, you know, that way. So I certainly don't have a problem with it. MAYOR SCONYERS: Further discussion, gentlemen? MR. TODD: And I'd like to make an amendment to that motion, Mr. Mayor, that that applies to anyone that's addressing a issue before the Commission- Council. MR. BEARD: I'll second that. MR. TODD: Is that acceptable, Mr. Kuhlke? MR. KUHLKE: Mr. Todd, if you don't mind, I'd like to discuss that. I think that there may be certain items that come before this Commission that might require more time than two minutes. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, then I'd like to make a substitute motion that that applies to anyone that's coming before the Commission as far as the public go, delegation, et cetera. I don't think that any member from the public should have any more privilege to discuss a issue than the Commission itself. And that's in the form of a substitute motion. MR. MAYS: I don't agree with it, but I'm going to second it to get it on the floor. MAYOR SCONYERS: Further discussion on the substitute motion, gentlemen? MR. MAYS: Yes, Mr. Mayor. I would hope that -- and I think probably now that some coolness has prevailed to some things that have happened recently, that in the adoption of whatever rules that we're going to govern ourselves by, if we get to that point -- and I know we had some even in the past, the old County Commission, and we got off in a situation to maybe where we didn't vote, and maybe we need to get back to that, but I would hope that we would do everything at one time. Because what I see happening, with all due respect to Mr. Kuhlke and this resolution -- and he's put it on the agenda today, but I'm hearing conflicts from my good friend on the right, even though he's put it on the agenda, where he says that at times we're going to have the need to go beyond two minutes. Well, who then to appoint to decide whose business gets beyond two minutes and whose is not? Because, you know, somebody's trash being picked up that's in the most dense population area of this city and maybe in the lowest income may be on the agenda and we may be discussing the fact to where we move item 50 up to number one because we have some business executives who have to get back to work, and they may come and take up sometimes 35 to 40 minutes and we don't even know that they're coming. I think that's a lot of latitude to have, and I don't know whether I'm comfortable with voting on setting that time limit today unless we're going to give everybody a certain amount of minutes, and then one Commissioner or Council Member can borrow time from another person out of his two minutes to yield as you do in some other governmental bodies, and then -- if that person wants to yield or to give that Commissioner time in order to do that. But I have a real serious problem -- and maybe it's because I've been accused of having a big mouth over the last 17 years. But when we start setting that in terms of where we limit some things on speech -- I'm one of those people that came here a long time ago that because if certain rights had been limited I would never have made it here. So when we start getting into the stifling somewhat process, I have -- even though how nicely something may be intended, sometimes those things don't turn out to have such nice results. And I'm not going to comment on it any further, but I can't support the resolution. MR. HANDY: Mr. Mayor, I would just like to say that I would rather to go ahead on and approve our rules and regulations for the Commission versus just picking out certain items. In our rules and regulations we have a time limit and everything on it, so why can't we go ahead on and adopt a set of rules and regulations rather than to keep making all these ordinances just to one part of it. We haven't accepted it, and we had one when we was in the Commission-Council and we never -- we tried to get it the first of the year and it bogged down and we never brought it back, so I would like for us to consider that. MAYOR SCONYERS: Mr. Wall, I think you were updating those, weren't you? MR. WALL: Yes, sir. Before I left on vacation you asked me to update those, and I made some changes, the secretary has made those changes, and I have a draft that has all the changes that I made. I frankly haven't had a chance to look over it since I got back, but I do plan to have it to give to you. I don't know whether it needs to go through a committee, Mr. Mayor, or not or whether it just needs to be put on the agenda for July the 2nd, but I do have that. MR. H. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, I was just wondering, in light that we have asked the Attorney to update all the rules and regulations, that during the interim period we use Robert's Rules of Order until those are adopted or brought back. Seems like to me that would give us some guidelines to work on. And I, too, agree that maybe ordinance pick out one area and do it, but could we possibly consider using Robert's Rules of Order until Mr. Wall has brought back the revision of most of them? MAYOR SCONYERS: Mr. Wall, we're already operating under it, aren't we? MR. WALL: Well, we are -- Robert's Rules of Order have not been formally adopted by the Commission-Council. I would urge you to do as Mr. Brigham has suggested. I think that in order to alleviate any concern or confusion as to whether or not we've adopted Robert's Rules, that it would be appropriate to do so. One Commissioner asked me after I had made a ruling sometime recently when did we adopt Robert's Rules, and we have not formally done so. And I think that we have -- Mr. Mayor, you announced at the beginning of the year that we would operate under it, and we have by pretty much consent operated under Robert's Rules, but I do think it'd be appropriate, until such time as other rules may go in place, that that be formalized so that there's no confusion about that. MR. H. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, if I'm in order, I'd like to move that we operate under Robert's Rules of Order until the rules are established and brought back to us by the Attorney. MR. ZETTERBERG: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: Well, now, I think we've already got two motions on the floor. MR. J. BRIGHAM: We've got too many motions on the floor. MAYOR SCONYERS: That's what I was saying. MR. J. BRIGHAM: Okay. Mr. Mayor, since this is -- MAYOR SCONYERS: Wait a minute, Mr. Kuhlke was next. MR. KUHLKE: Mr. Mayor, I simply wanted to say that the idea of this ordinance is not to try to cut any of my colleagues off from any conversation, it's just that in my opinion there's been an awful lot of dialogue that could be shortened and it could help us expedite our business in a more efficient and quicker manner. And the idea of introducing this was that when and if we do adopt any rules of order, that this would roll right into those rules of order, but we've been here six months and we haven't adopted anything yet, so that was the purpose of me introducing this ordinance. MR. J. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, I was going to offer a motion that we postpone this till July the 2nd since it's only one meeting away, and that way we'll have all the written rules in front of us. And I think the majority of us seem to be ready to adopt some rules. MR. POWELL: I'll second that. MAYOR SCONYERS: I might mention something, gentlemen. We need to think about probably postponing the July 2nd meeting because most of the Commission- Council is going to be in Savannah. MR. HANDY: I was going to remind you of that because I'll be in Savannah. MAYOR SCONYERS: I know there's going to be five people out. MR. KUHLKE: Mr. Mayor, if we are instructing Mr. Wall to present us with rules of order at our next regular meeting, whenever that may be, then I'd like to withdraw my motion. MAYOR SCONYERS: Mr. Todd, you had a substitute motion. Do you want to withdraw that? MR. TODD: Certainly, Mr. Mayor, I'll withdraw the substitute. But I also would like to encourage the Mayor, the County Attorney, and my colleagues to think in terms of the things that's come through here that we alleged we didn't know about, because in most cases we did not discuss them, consent agenda, if we're looking at the land deal that's being investigated by the GBI, and there's other things that kind of slipped through. So I'm not sure that we're having too much discussion, but as I stated earlier, I can live by a five second rule or a five minute rule. MAYOR SCONYERS: All right, we're back to the point we have no motion on the floor. MR. POWELL: One motion. Mr. Brigham's motion is on the floor. I seconded Jerry Brigham's motion. MAYOR SCONYERS: Well, we already had two motions. Now we can discuss the motion. Mr. Brigham, do you want to make a motion? MR. J. BRIGHAM: Well, I thought a motion to postpone and a motion to table was one and the same. I didn't realize that. But I will make a motion that we postpone this till our next regular meeting for when we have our written rules. MR. POWELL: I second that motion. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Brigham, seconded by Mr. Powell. All in favor -- excuse me, Mr. Powell? MR. POWELL: Mr. Chairman, I have just one area of concern with Robert's Rules of Order. And I'm no parliamentarian, but Mr. Wall, I'm sure, can enlighten me, but I see some conflicts in Roberts' Rules of Order and in the way this Commission is set up. Number one, if I'm not mistaken, Robert's Rules of Order calls for the chairman to vote with the majority on items, and that would not constitute a tie or it would not make a tie. And if you had -- you've got situations that Robert's Rules Order is going to have to be adapted to work under this situation. MR. WALL: Certainly not every rule within Robert's Rules is applicable because of the legislation that's in place, but there are provisions in there that cover situations where the Mayor only gets the right to vote in the event of a tie or to create a tie. So Robert's Rules does deal with that. However, they're cumbersome, they're bulky -- I mean, they are a maze to work through, and I think that if we can agree upon a set of rules similar to what the Board of Commissioners did, then I think it simplifies it and streamlines it. There's still a provision in there that if in the event those rules don't cover the given situation, then you do go back to Robert's Rules. So I agree with Mr. Powell. I mean, there's some -- it clarifies things to have a separate set of rules. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I don't think Robert's Rules is the best set of rules to operate by, but certainly I think that state and federal laws supersedes Robert's Rules when it's in the statutorial method of how you will govern, and then you would fall back to Robert's when it's not. And so I don't think that we can pull out one specific part of Robert's and say, you know, this is the way it works and this is the way it should be here. State law supersedes. MAYOR SCONYERS: Back to Mr. Brigham's motion to table -- MR. J. BRIGHAM: Postpone till the next regular meeting. MAYOR SCONYERS: Postpone, excuse me. All in favor of Mr. Brigham's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 9-0. [MR. ZETTERBERG OUT] CLERK: Item 50: Consider approval of a request for consideration of donating and deeding Parcels 8, 9 and 38, Tracts 1, 2, 3 and 4 of State Route 56 from McBean to Bennock Mill Road to the Georgia Department of Transportation. MR. WALL: It has been the practice, with Richmond County at least, to donate county-owned property where it was needed by the Georgia DOT. Mr. Gooding's office has been in touch with those that would be affected by this, including Water Works, Fire Department, Recreation Department. None of them have any objection to it, and I recommend approval. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I so move. MR. HANDY: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Todd, seconded by Mr. Handy. Further discussion, gentlemen? All in favor of Mr. Todd's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 9-0. [MR. ZETTERBERG OUT] CLERK: Item 51: Consider approval of Lease Purchase Agreement regarding the 1996 Police Vehicles. MR. WALL: Mr. McKie is not here, and back at the Commission-Council meeting held on May the 21st Mr. McKie and I were asked to review the lease purchase agreements by GE Capital as well as Bank One Kentucky Leasing. Bank One Kentucky Leasing has withdrawn theirs because of some IRS regulations that wouldn't be applicable to this, and in view of the fact that they would not get tax exempt status, they have withdrawn theirs, and therefore it's the recommendation that we go with the GE Capital proposal. MR. HANDY: So move. MR. TODD: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Handy, seconded by Mr. Todd. Further discussion, gentlemen? MR. KUHLKE: Mr. Wall, did any local institutions bid on this? MR. WALL: Glenn was here earlier -- or Johnnie is here. It's my understanding that -- MR. KUHLKE: Johnnie, is this what I talked to you about? MR. MITCHELL: Yes, sir. MR. KUHLKE: And I believe that Trust Company -- SunTrust bid on it? MR. MITCHELL: That's correct. MR. KUHLKE: And that their bid was -- over a three-year period come out to about $5,000 more than GE Capital? MR. MITCHELL: About that, yes, sir. MR. KUHLKE: And we don't take into consideration a local institution even though they may be a little bit higher but they're paying enormous taxes every year into this community, and we're going outside? We don't take that into consideration at all? MR. MITCHELL: Yes, sir, we did take them into consideration, and we do have business on the books from SunTrust right now. MR. KUHLKE: You have what? MR. MITCHELL: We do have business on the books, financing arrangements with SunTrust right now. MR. KUHLKE: And this was about a two million dollar deal? MR. MITCHELL: Yes, sir. MR. KUHLKE: It was about $5,000 over three years; am I correct? That was about the difference? MR. MITCHELL: Yes, sir. MR. KUHLKE: I think we ought to pay some attention to that in the future. MAYOR SCONYERS: Further discussion? MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, is my colleague suggesting that the SunTrust is the best bid? I think that's the method that we can do it. If someone can certainly show me where it's the best bid, then I would be willing to withdraw my second and consider it. MR. KUHLKE: Well, I'm not saying it's the best bid. Johnnie and Butch, you know, they evaluate that. All I'm saying is that we have the opportunity - - whenever we have the opportunity to do business with local people I think we ought to take advantage of that even though we may spend a little more money when they're contributing to this community, paying taxes, and then -- so we're sending the funds outside. I'd like to make a substitute motion, if I could, that we reconsider the award of this contract to GE Capital and reconsider the bid to SunTrust. MR. HANDY: You don't have to make a substitute motion. I'll just drop my motion if Mr. Todd will accept it, and you can make a motion to do whatever you'd like. MR. TODD: I need to hear some language that this is the best bid because it's local or it's going to be easier to correspond with them or whatever. You know, I don't think that we can do it just because we want to give it to someone else. And if that's what I'm hearing, I certainly can support the motion. MR. WALL: Mr. Todd, as I understand Mr. Kuhlke's motion, it's for the purpose of going back to evaluate it to determine which is the best bid. MR. TODD: Okay. I can support that. MAYOR SCONYERS: We didn't have a second to Mr. Kuhlke's motion. MR. BRIDGES: Second it. MAYOR SCONYERS: Okay, seconded by Mr. Bridges. MR. MAYS: I'm going to support Bill's motion, I just wanted to ask Jim what -- since you basically had an abandonment of city charter, but -- and I know you've had a lot to look up, you know, and go through in terms of mixing laws, but under some old provision work that was done -- and I don't know, Lee would've been the last person familiar with it because I think part of it was put on by old City Council at that point. But, I mean, the legality -- and I think this may keep us out of the realm of having to do this on every individual case, but isn't there ordinance work that we can do legally if we work on within certain provisions -- percentages, I mean, as opposed to provisions -- certain percentages that on local companies and that incentive to do work and pass an ordinance that would relate to that? And I believe that -- and I may be wrong, but I think somewhere probably in the neighborhood of about 1990 that City Council adopted such an ordinance in terms of dealing with local businesses, in terms of that percentage, and stated the percentage amount that if it came within. Now, what type of follow up Council did after that point, whether there was a pick-and-choose situation, I don't know, but I do know that it did come up for a vote, you know, before your old previous body. And I'm wondering -- you know, I know that's not necessarily what we're dealing with with this motion, but I think in the spirit of talking about it, it may be something, while we're rewriting all these different ordinances, you know, this month, that might be one that we might want to throw out that everybody could support and it wouldn't be controversial in doing as long as it's legal. MR. WALL: If you want me to respond to that, I will. MR. MAYS: If you could. If there is such or if there is a creative one that we can do and in making it legal, and if it's a small percentage of where we are allotted to deal with a local business in that provision and do it, then maybe that needs to be our next move in doing. I'm very much in favor of going back and reviewing this one in order to get that done, but I don't think we're going to be able to just do that on every case, and in order to prevent that, if we put the legislation in place to legally do that, then I think that wipes it out. Or if we can't do it, then that answers, you know, the question of doing it. But I do know at one time -- whether they were being constitutional or not, I don't know, and I don't think there was ever any challenge to it. Maybe they just didn't act on it or maybe they acted on it when they wanted to act on it, but it was passed by the old previous body here sometime probably within a period of two years after I left in 1987. MR. WALL: I am not familiar with an ordinance adopted by the City Council to that effect; however, as a part of the purchasing ordinance that was proposed to the old Board of Commissioners that was held in abeyance because of the consoli-dation process. As a part of the draft code that you have possession of, in the purchasing part of that, there are prefer-ences as to certain types of purchases. I don't think that you can do it in Public Works projects, for instance, but in other projects I think that you can give a preference to a local vendor and that is a part of the purchasing ordinance that is incorpo-rated in the code that hopefully we're going to get to work on and have some further discussion on in the next 30 to 45 days. MR. MAYS: Okay. Mr. Mayor, since we look like we're all in the middle of friendly dialogue, I'd like to ask the maker of the motion that maybe we do two things with it, that we deal with the immediate which is on the floor and that maybe we expand it to allow the County Attorney to look for those legal provisions in order to do it and to bring us such an ordinance back. MR. KUHLKE: Mr. Mayor, I would like to amend my motion to direct the Comptroller to award this contract to Trust Company -- SunTrust as being the best bid and local preference, and also like to direct the County Attorney to review the ordinance as far as local preference and report back to this board. MR. H. BRIGHAM: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: Does the seconder accept that, too? Mr. Brigham? MR. H. BRIGHAM: Oh, I didn't second the first one. MAYOR SCONYERS: Mr. Handy? MR. HANDY: I would just like to know who all bidded for this locally. SunTrust was the only local bank that bidded? And then normally we have the sheets in the book to tell us who bid what, and we don't have anything to show anything, like who bidded and how much and everything. MR. MITCHELL: SunTrust was the only local bank that bidded. The three people that bid was Bank One Kentucky, GE Capital, and SunTrust was the only bank. MR. HANDY: Okay. So SunTrust qualifies. They don't have the problem that the bank that opt to come out. MR. MITCHELL: That Bank One Kentucky had? MR. HANDY: Right. MR. MITCHELL: No, sir, they don't have that problem. MR. HANDY: Okay. And SunTrust, that's the old Bankers First? MR. KUHLKE: No. MR. HANDY: Oh, Trust Company. Okay. And then earlier you were saying that we are -- we have some financial dealings with Trust Company Bank? MR. MITCHELL: Yes, sir. We have a tractor that's out at the landfill financed with them. MR. HANDY: Okay. I'm in agreement with it as long as it's legal. If Jim checks it out like you asked, Mr. Kuhlke, and then if there's nothing wrong with awarding it to the best bidder, then I'll support it, but I want to make sure that that's understood. MR. BRIDGES: Is SunTrust the best bid here? Is it lowest bid? Best terms? MR. MITCHELL: No, sir. GE Capital is the lowest interest rate. Everybody else was identical in the terms. I mean, it's all deferred one-year -- three-year terms. The only difference is the interest rate. MR. BRIDGES: How much money are we saving with GE Capital? MR. MITCHELL: GE Capital came in at 5.875 and Trust Company was 5.99. MR. HANDY: Over three years? MR. MITCHELL: Three years. MR. BRIDGES: How many dollars are we talking about then? MR. MITCHELL: Roughly, as Mr. Kuhlke said, about $5,000. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, if I understand what we're doing now, we're not buying cars, we're arranging finances to buy cars, and I don't have a problem. I think this falls in the line or scope, as the County Attorney has indicated, of professional services, and it's pretty much our option which way we go. We went out for proposals to make sure that we, you know, got a good deal, and certainly I can support the motion and go with the best bid, local preference -- best proposal, excuse me, local preference. MR. WALL: I wouldn't want to call it professional services, but I do not have a problem with -- if it's the decision that the bid should be awarded to SunTrust over GE Capital based upon the information that's been submitted, I do not have a problem with it from a legal standpoint. MAYOR SCONYERS: Okay. Are y'all ready to vote, gentlemen? MR. KUHLKE: Call the question. MAYOR SCONYERS: Thank you, Mr. Kuhlke. Why don't you read -- I think we've got two motions. MR. HANDY: No, we don't have but one. I dropped mine. We don't have - - only have one. MAYOR SCONYERS: You've totally dropped it? MR. HANDY: Yeah, I dropped mine. MAYOR SCONYERS: All right. Then we just have Mr. Kuhlke's motion. MS. WATSON: Yes, sir. Motion by Mr. Kuhlke, seconded by Mr. Bridges, to reconsider the SunTrust bid and direct the Comptroller to award it to SunTrust as the best bid, local preference, with the County Attorney to research local preference and to bring his recommendation back to the Commission. MAYOR SCONYERS: All in favor of Mr. Kuhlke's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 10-0. MAYOR SCONYERS: Next item, please. CLERK: Item 52: Consolidation Project Manager's report. MR. CARSTARPHEN: Mr. Mayor, members of the Commission, we have four items on the agenda today that involve action to move forward. Three of those deal with approval of position descriptions or structures for individual departments or offices within the government and the fourth item deals with the overall organizational structure for the new government. I'd like to start at the top of the consolidation project agenda first with the Clerk of Commission Office. And incidently, of course, Ms. Bonner is here, Mr. Etheridge is here with regard to Human Resources, and Mr. Miller Meyer, I believe, is still here with regard to the License and Inspections Department, so if you have questions for the respective interim department heads, they are available. The first item -- and incidently, you have material in your booklet on a number of these items. I have some supplemental material which I would like to pass out and display today as a part of our discussions. First, dealing with the Clerk of Commission, in my memorandum of June 7th outlining the duties of that position I indicated to you that there were four items that we needed your guidance on. Two of those are quite minor, and we would be happy to make those decisions if you would like us to, that dealing with whether or not the distribution of code books would be handled by the Purchasing Department or the Clerk's Office and where the budget preparation for that office would occur. We're recommending that the Clerk prepare the budget for that office and be responsible for administering it. The issue of the distribution of code books can be handled in either of those departments as you see fit. The two items, however, which we are asking for your guidance on deal with, first of all, the responsibility for maintaining records and providing administrative support for appointments to boards, commissions, and authorities. In the previous two governments that function for the county was handled in the Administrator's Office and for the former city it was handled in the Clerk's Office. We need to make a decision as to where you would like that function to be performed in the new government. The second major item in which we seek your guidance deals with the administrative support for individual Commission members that you are expecting from the Clerk of Commission's Office. We have suggested that if your expectation includes light correspondence, making travel arrangements, keeping up with schedules and agendas, telephone reminders, and occasional light administrative duties, that should be clarified. If you are expecting more than that, we need to know that as well. So we seek your guidance on those four areas, and following that, the approval of the position description for the Clerk of Commission. If there are any questions, Ms. Bonner or myself would be happy to respond. MR. KUHLKE: Mr. Carstarphen, on the area of maintaining the records for boards, commissions and so forth, since we are in the process of advertising for the position of Administrator, would it not be reasonable to maybe at this point hold that responsibility back to see what the Administrator's position is in regards to this particular item, which is something that if he doesn't want it -- if he doesn't want the responsibility, then he can always assign it to the Clerk, I would guess. MR. CARSTARPHEN: You could certainly do that. Speaking as a somewhat experienced administrator, I think probably delegation would be what you would expect, that it would be delegated to some other office. But that you can await the guidance of your selected candidate if you would like. That would certainly be a way to do it. MAYOR SCONYERS: Mr. Carstarphen, since our -- in the old County Administrator's Office, years ago that was the Clerk of Commission and that's probably why the Administrator actually ended up doing those duties. MR. CARSTARPHEN: I think that probably is. MAYOR SCONYERS: Right. So shouldn't that really be assigned to the Clerk of the Commission-Council? MR. CARSTARPHEN: I think probably if you looked at across the country, the most popular position for that is in the Clerk's Office, but you will find it in a variety of locations in governments. MAYOR SCONYERS: Well, I would think that our Administrator is going to be in rather big demand considering all the tasks they've given him. MR. HANDY: Or woman. MAYOR SCONYERS: Excuse me. I stand corrected. MR. CARSTARPHEN: I agree with your observation, Mr. Mayor. MR. BEARD: I don't particularly see any need to hold that up. The only question I would ask at this point, because it was done one way in the county and I think in the city we did it the opposite, the Clerk handled those duties. And I would just like to hear, since Ms. Bonner is here, and I don't want to put her on the spot, but is this something the Clerk could take care of at this point in time? CLERK: Yes, sir. We did administer those duties for the City Council and it's been that way since the duration I've been in the office, 23 years. I think the question was the method in which we were doing it, but it was, under the old Board of Commissioners, under the County Commission Clerk. MR. BEARD: Well, the point is, I agree with the Mayor, that I think the Administrator is going to have more than he can say grace over, and I don't see -- if this has been done in the past and it's accessible to do here, I don't see any reason holding it up. I think that we should continue with this as it has been done in city government. MR. CARSTARPHEN: I think part of the discussion surrounding this dealt with the fact that in the previous --in the Administrator's Office there was an automated system using a computer-based system; in the previous City Clerk's Office it had been done manually. Obviously automation is the way to go today if we can do so, but those systems can be operated wherever you want them to. MR. BEARD: Correct. I don't see where that would present a problem. You just move it from one office to the other, and people ought to be qualified to do that. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I certainly think that we need to do what's best and what's going to work best for the new government versus -- and I'll remind my colleagues what we used to do in the old city or the old county. Certainly I see the Administrator, whoever that person is, when that person is hired is going to be the person that's going to work with and deal with the boards and authorities as far as the Commission-Council go, and I don't know that it's essential to have the person that would do the application to be connected from the point of application, talent bank, to the appointments, et cetera. But the Administrator got to have a working knowledge of who is on the boards and authorities because the Administrator is most likely who is going to work with those boards and authorities as far as keeping that chain of custody or control, as Mr. Carstarphen has talked about earlier on in working sessions; it's not going to be the Clerk. And certainly I would like to hear from the Administrator -- the present Administrator, and since we have one here and I think one out sick, on what's her feelings as far as this go and how can we make it work in the Clerk's position or vice versa, where it's at and where the pluses and minuses are there. MS. BEAZLEY: One's out sick and one's crippled, Mr. Todd. We did meet at length. I spent three and a half hours with Ms. Bonner discussing various things about the government. She is convinced that it should be in the Clerk's Office. My response to Mr. Carstarphen was put it in the Clerk's Office. I think that that would be an appropriate place for it. There should not be any more discussion about it. MR. KUHLKE: My question was not to say it wasn't supposed to be in the Clerk's Office. My comments were, would it be appropriate to make that decision once the Administrator is on board. MS. BEAZLEY: I think it's a decision that can be made now. MR. HANDY: Mr. Mayor, I don't think we should be here discussing what - - little small things like that. We don't need to go into every job description. I mean, that's up to them. We hired Mr. Carstarphen and John to put all this stuff together and we come here picking out certain items to see who gets it. We got some more important things besides that bull crap to be talking about. That's small and that's controversial, and that's going to get into who's best and who's not best and we don't want that, we don't need that. So wherever that he deem necessary to put it, let him go on and put it in there, and then when the new person comes aboard, if they don't want it there, then they take it out and that'll be finished with that. We don't have to sit here and decide whether that's wrong. That's just my opinion. MAYOR SCONYERS: Thank you. Mr. Beard? MR. BEARD: I'm just going to say that I don't think we can wait on the Administrator to make choices, we have to make those now. And I don't intend to discuss this any more, we'll just let it go like it is. MR. J. BRIGHAM: Mr. Carstarphen, is my understanding that all the purchasing is being removed from the Clerk's Office? MR. CARSTARPHEN: It is my expectation that all of the purchasing responsibility will be centralized in a purchasing division and that there will no longer be any purchasing done in the Clerk of Commission's Office. That move has not yet occurred. We're in the process of determining how to do that currently. MR. J. BRIGHAM: In this job description there's no purchasing duties left in the Clerk's Office? MR. CARSTARPHEN: That's correct. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I think I heard a couple or three questions, but one was the expectations of the Commission-Council per the Clerk of Commission-Council, and my position is that certainly I would like to see that person or that position or job description take care of my travel arrangements, certainly getting the itinerary of that, you know, travel, et cetera, doing some correspondence or clerical, and not necessarily the Clerk herself or himself but the office, you know, and staff. So that's what basically I expect of the Clerk's Office, and I think that the job description pretty much takes care of that. I think anything additional, you know, that certainly we could decide on as a board on whether we, you know, need anything in the future additional. The idea or concept was to keep the cost down as low as possible but give the Commission-Council and Mayor's Office some support staff to carry out some of the functions like correspondence. As far as where certain issues or functions should be, if it haven't been -- we're approving the job description. If it haven't been decided or ironed out with the professionals, then I certainly think that what they are requesting is that we iron it out. And I think we've heard the recommendations, so I'm ready to move on with putting the function of keeping up with the talent banks for any boards and authorities in the Clerk's Office. It's that simple. The recommendation's been made, and I don't know whether we need a motion or whatever, but certainly I'd like to see it incorporated that way and we vote on it and approve the job description. MAYOR SCONYERS: Do you want a motion on that, Bill? MR. CARSTARPHEN: If you would like. And the reason I'm addressing you on these items, although they may be relatively minor, the Clerk of Commission, with the exception of the Administrator, works more closely with the Commission as a group of individuals than anyone else and I feel it's important that you have a consensus on what you expect that person to do. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I'll so move that the job description, with the function being put in the Clerk's Office to keep up with the talent banks and boards and authorities. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Todd, do I have a second? MR. HANDY: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: Seconded by Mr. Handy. Further discussion, gentlemen? MR. MAYS: Yes, Mr. Mayor. I'd just like to ask Mr. Carstarphen, in this particular motion, has this satisfied or are we going to move to a different stage -- one of the early things that we talked about, whether it's been at retreats or whether it's been in this Commission, and you've alluded to it today and I think are asking for some direction in terms of how far do we want staff support to do certain things. Are we at that point in this discussion yet or are we going to take this motion and then move to that area, you know, in another frame? MR. CARSTARPHEN: It'd be cleaner to take this motion first, and then I have a recommendation for you on that that you can vote on. MR. MAYS: Okay. I'm clear. MAYOR SCONYERS: Further discussion, gentlemen? All in favor of Mr. Todd's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 9-0. [MR. KUHLKE OUT] MR. CARSTARPHEN: On the second part of the issues involving the Clerk of Commission's position description, it would be my recommendation that the support for individual Commission members provided by the Clerk and the Clerk staff be limited to periodic correspondence, travel arrangements and schedules, agendas, telephone reminders, and occasional light administrative duties. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor? Would you elaborate a little bit on that occasional or light administrative duties? MR. CARSTARPHEN: I put that in there for the specific purpose of allowing -- from time to time you are going to have to or you're going to want to call on the Clerk or a member of the Clerk's staff to do some light research for you, to hunt up some ordinances, to get copies of reports, to do what I describe as light administrative work, and I think that's appropriate. What I don't want you to expect is that on a constant and continuing basis on ten individual members because I think you'll be overwhelming the Clerk's staff. MR. TODD: Yes, but I guess that I'm looking for the clerical assistance occasionally. MR. CARSTARPHEN: Limited and occasional, yes, that is in there. MR. TODD: That's in there? Thank you. MR. BEARD: Mr. Mayor, I so move that this recommendation be accepted. MR. TODD: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Beard, seconded by Mr. Todd. Mr. Mays? MR. MAYS: Yes. I probably will vote for the motion that's on the floor, I just wanted to say one thing. I think in combining the offices of -- well, however they were defined previously, I think the people -- I'll break it down real simple, folks that were on one end of the hall on the sixth floor and folks that were on one end of the hall on the eighth floor. I think you've got a lot of talent that comes out of those two offices, and what I wanted to get to before we left this part of it, Bill, and that's why I asked previously on that, one of those observances that has come out constantly in the new government has been with this level of staff support, you know, or the lack of it. And I think maybe as we move along, you know, we may ask for some other things, you know, to be done, but I think we ought to keep an open mind about it, that if we do that we don't get into an overtaxing situation. But, you know, I was just wondering if we were going to define that before we left, because at some point in time -- I know from personal experience, I worked in the last years more recently with people out of the old city -- old county government and had worked previously within the old city government. I think pretty much anything that you need -- and I know the year that I was chairman in 1994, and I know the Mayor can attest to that, that in terms of help or pretty much knowing where you're going to keeping your head on straight, we've got folk in both of those levels that were, are, and will be capable of doing those things. But I just would hope that we would define those things to a point that if that's going to be an area that's going to be needed in the future -- and obviously we're all going to be working for the same big salaries that we accepted, but the level of responsibility in terms sometimes of what we may need in staff support -- and I didn't know whether or not we were going to get into the point of where we might have -- say whether it was one person assigned to, you know, Commissioners A, B, C and D from particular districts in order to do that on a defined basis in terms of that level of staff support or whether representing that Commissioner, but I see we probably are going to do it on a more limited basis. And I can vote for that right now, but I think all of us getting here in January have seen that this job is probably way more than a quasi part-time position, and a lot of demands that are being placed on us, and I think we need to seriously think in terms of -- and I can say it because we've got all ladies, that those ladies are working real hard. But I think that if we're going to do some other things, that we need to seriously maybe look down the road at what we may need out of those offices to do because some responsibilities will go beyond what we do here with meetings and where we expect to be, to go, that's not necessarily a travel arrangement or dealing with a hotel. And I think they do that well, but I think a lot of your metro areas -- one of the things that we've learned from networking of traveling, whether it's NACO or whether it's National League of Cities, has been that a lot of those officials who have been able to function on a much better response basis to constituents has not been so much of what they receive in salaries -- some receive less than what we do -- but it's been in the level of defined staff support that's there and a person particularly who may not be in a private business or who may not be retired that may be on a 9- to-5 that has to deal with certain responses or can have a person or an office that's in place to do some of those particular things. And I think this is -- this is a big government of a lot of expectations from a constituent level. And I can vote for this today, but I just hope we don't shut the door that this is where we stop or won't maybe go back to this if we need to from a staffing standpoint on definition of duties. I think that the people are there, they are capable of doing the work, but I think if we do it on a basis where it's divided, where's it's even to a point that we're not overworking anybody, and if we do it from that basis we can possibly get some extended other staff support that's in there, and I think they are very much capable of doing it wherever they come from. MAYOR SCONYERS: Thank you, Mr. Mays. Mr. Handy? MR. HANDY: Yes, sir. Mr. Mayor, I would just like to -- I've been listening to everyone talk about it and I've been observing what's going on. Why are we separated like we are as far as Administrator Office and the Mayor's Office and -- far as the staff and who helping who when -- actually, everything that goes on in the Mayor's Office is separated from what the Administrator does, and then we have, what, I think three ladies down on the other end, and that means that each Administrator have his own secretary, and then we have another person, I reckon, just doing something else. Why can't we combine all these people, consolidate them, and just one staff does all the administrative work for the government -- I mean, far as the Mayor's Office, far as the Administrator's Office, and no one particular person assigned to any particular person. Because they all work together and it's all administrative work and it's all what you need to take care of the whole office, take care of the whole floor. We shouldn't be separated as these on this -- people doing this end. And we could be doing duplication of services having people on this end separated from people on this end and some of the things could be being duplicated. I mean, we could be taking duplication telephone calls, we could be sending out duplication correspon- dence, when if we just had one person doing certain things, you know. That's just a suggestion, something to think about. MAYOR SCONYERS: Bill, do you want to respond to that? MR. CARSTARPHEN: I'm not sure. Let me just make an observation. Number one is that -- MR. HANDY: You don't have to if you're not sure. MR. CARSTARPHEN: No, the -- MR. HANDY: If you're not sure, you don't have to. Don't try to speak for me if you're not sure, and I really mean that from my heart. MR. CARSTARPHEN: I'll try to handle it. Number one, I think experience that you have should be your best guide in terms of determining what supplemental staffing levels you might need in the future, but I think at this point in time this is the appropriate level for you to have. Secondly, I'd like to remind you that the staffing level for the Clerk's Office has not finally been determined. We will do that as we review the purchasing and Clerk function and the separation of those, and I think there will be an opportunity both through perhaps some use of automation as well as assignment of staff to meet the needs that you have until you define them as greater. MR. BEARD: I call for the question. MAYOR SCONYERS: Thank you, Mr. Beard. Do we need the motion read, gentlemen? It's been a while. Does everybody know what we're voting on? MR. CARSTARPHEN: It's the approval of the level of support that was described. MAYOR SCONYERS: Right. I just want to make sure everybody's clear. MR. KUHLKE: Does it also include, Mr. Mayor, authorization to recruit? MR. CARSTARPHEN: That's the second item. MR. KUHLKE: That's another item. MR. CARSTARPHEN: That's another item. We'll get to that. MAYOR SCONYERS: All in favor of the motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 10-0. MR. CARSTARPHEN: Unless you direct to the contrary, we will assign the sale of code books to the Purchasing Department where they sell and buy things, and we will hold the Clerk responsible for preparing and administering the budget, as we recommended. The only other item under the Clerk of Commission is to, with these amendments, approve the position description and authorize recruitment. And I would report to you that the recruitment committee consisting of the Mayor and the Mayor Pro Tem and the Consolidation Project Manager have met and the committee is recommending that the recruitment be from within the governmental entity on the position of Clerk of Commission. MR. KUHLKE: So move. MR. TODD: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Kuhlke, seconded by Mr. Todd. Further discussion, gentlemen? All in favor of Mr. Kuhlke's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 10-0. MAYOR SCONYERS: Next item, please. MR. CARSTARPHEN: The second item deals with the Human Resources Department. Mr. Etheridge is here, and I believe he has a -- John, where are you? If you'll set the chart up. We have reviewed the departmental organizational structure, have developed a position description for the Human Resources Department. I would like to ask Mr. Etheridge to review with you the recommended structure. In addition to the large board which he is setting up, I have copies of that for each of you which I will distribute to you so you can follow that a little bit more closely. You have a copy of the position description that was in your agenda packet. If you have any questions concerning the position description after Mr. Etheridge reviews the organization chart, I would ask that you direct those questions to Mr. Etheridge or myself regarding that. I'll distribute these and turn the rostrum over to Mr. Etheridge. MR. ETHERIDGE: Mr. Mayor, Commissioners, first of all I'd like to do one thing before I start on this. We have been probably one of the first departments to go together and begin working together. Today there's two people out of our office that's up here with us and that's Gail Scott and Moses McCauley. They were both with the former city side and I just want to let y'all know, and they can vouch for this, you know, that things -- we've been working real well together and we've made a lot of progress. We're working very diligently on numerous things right now, and the organizational chart that I come to you with today is one that will help enable us to go into the future with and look toward the future. Insofar as number of people, it only has one position on here that's not in the authorized list, but that individual is a contractual employee and I do ask that we do make that individual one of our people, a full-time employee within our structure. The Human Resource Department is divided up into -- we divided it up into three sections. We divided it up into Employment/ Affirmative Action area, the Human Resource area, and the Risk Management area. And if you'll look on your chart you will -- if you come down you can see the three managers that we have. The Risk Management manager who does that function now is Sandy Wright, and Sandy is on vacation today or she would have been in here also, but she's on vacation this week. And beside each block that we have here is the number of people that are in those positions. In all the positions I have, with the exception of one, which is our benefits coordinators who handle our insurance and everything, there's one individual on each job. The job that we currently have a contractual employee on right now is Mr. Steve Reed, and I'm sure most of y'all know him. He's the one that's out during all hours of the night responding to people calling with broken water lines or whatever the case may be, but that's primarily his job from a Risk Management standpoint. The claims adjuster slot is where we want to put him on. This is very vital to our operation insofar as the Risk Management or loss control area is concerned. With that, if you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them. MR. BRIDGES: I've got two. One is, in doing this, did you keep the boxes here the same number? Were you able decrease any or? MR. ETHERIDGE: They are the same as authorized with the exception of the contractual employee that we have on contract, but I added the box on here for him. MR. BRIDGES: Where is that at? MR. ETHERIDGE: It's under the claims adjuster under Risk Management. MR. BRIDGES: And that's an addition? MR. ETHERIDGE: Yes, sir. MR. BRIDGES: Was that approved in the budget? Is those monies in the budget? MR. ETHERIDGE: The money is in the budget from a contractual standpoint, but it's not in the budget for a full-time individual. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I guess my question is, did we also go out for a third-party administrator as far as Risk Management go? And if we did, then actually what do we pay them for, and is there a duplication in claim assistance, you know, claim adjusters, et cetera? MR. ETHERIDGE: Are you referring to the Risk Management area? MR. TODD: Yes, Risk Management area. MR. ETHERIDGE: The Risk Management TPA that we have primarily does the bill processing, is what they do. They do not do any of our -- if we have a claim, we're out doing the analysis ourselves. Now, on the urban side of that -- and I want to make sure y'all all understand something. The urban side did not have this function here like we have it set up. It was totally different. And we have taken on all of those responsibilities primarily with one person, is what we've done. And there were -- there's 800 people in the city that was on the urban side, let's say, or 900 people, and we've taken that on with only one addi-tional person here and that is a contractual employee that we have. MR. BRIDGES: I guess addressing it to Bill Carstarphen, we've got here an employment/affirmative action manager. We're going to be discussing later on the equal opportunity position. If we approve that position, is this something that can be removed here? MR. CARSTARPHEN: I think this is an example of the way that this commitment to equal opportunity should be addressed in several departments. In the Human Resources Department, the director has proposed to use the affirmative action manager also as being the manager over all of the employment process, and I think that's the proper location for that function in the personnel function. The commitment to equal opportunity, which we will be discussing as a part of our overall organizational structure, includes not only fair employment practices and affirmative action but also fair purchasing and contracting practices, fair economic development practices, and extending equal treatment to all citizens in all aspects of the local government. So this function as it is presented here, which I think is appropriate, is an example of how I think this function should be carried out throughout the organization. You use the people in the key departments to take on that responsibility of equal employment or affirmative action or fair bidding practices rather than creating just a special job that that person does nothing else. In this instance, the combining of the employment function, which is a major function on its own, with the commitment to equal employment opportunity, you get more bang for your buck and you get a more rational assignment of the responsibilities to see that that's happening. So I think this is the right way to do it. It relates to this subject, but it does not, in answer to your question, remove the need for it, in my opinion. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I think that certainly we're interested in bang for the buck, but also we're interested in the position functioning proper. You know, that's my greatest concern when I'm looking at an affirmative action or equal opportunity officer. And I know that a lot of businesses in the private sector has gone to labor relations or somewhat pushing away from personnel in the sense that personnel is probably already going to be ruled and you're having to go through the personnel director, so do you think this is the best suited place for the position as far as an affirmative action officer? That would be my concern. MAYOR SCONYERS: Is that for Mr. Carstarphen or for John? MR. TODD: I'd like for Mr. Etheridge to answer it, he's the Human Relations manager, you know, and whether he sees a conflict or. MR. ETHERIDGE: I'll be happy to answer that. If you survey 1,000 corporations in this country you're going to find that the affirmative action/equal employment people are in your HR areas. They are in there for a reason. They can be called down just as quick as anybody that you put out to the side or whatever, they can be called down just as easy. But when it comes to employment and it comes to equal employment opportunity as far as transfers, promotions, what better place to be than to be in the Human Resource section? I have been associated with two other organizations, and I talked to some people today within government, and all of their affirmative action and equal employment is associated with the HR department. So I'm going to be honest with you, I don't see it being anywhere other than that. Now, I have heard through discussions that have taken place about equal opportunity for housing and some other things related to equal opportunity. Those are totally separate situations in comparison to equal employment opportunity. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I guess -- you mentioned equal employment opportunity, and I would assume that we're talking sexual harassment and any other type harassment, et cetera, along with -- MR. ETHERIDGE: We're talking about Title VII discriminatory practices, is what we're talking about. MR. TODD: Okay. Thank you. MAYOR SCONYERS: Mr. Beard, did you want to say something? I thought you had your hand up. MR. BEARD: Yes, I was just going to ask one question to Mr. Carstarphen. You are saying that is needed prior to the other one that we're going to discuss here? MR. CARSTARPHEN: Yes, I think so. John and I are together on this. The function of administering equal employment opportunity should be in the Human Relations --Human Resources Department. That is an element of the government's commitment to equal opportunity in several areas. Employment is a very major area, and that function can best be achieved, in my opinion and in John's opinion, from within the Human Resources Department. MR. ETHERIDGE: Let me say one final thing on this, because I know y'all don't want to hear me long. But all your statistics that are going to come as far as employment are going to come through our office. We're going to get them from the Department of Labor and what we take and compile through our office as far as the type of applications and who comes through there, so it's very logical. MR. HANDY: I just have two questions, Mr. Mayor. The Human Resource representative, what -- what -- MR. ETHERIDGE: What do they do? MR. HANDY: Yeah, what do they do? What that person does is one of the -- MR. ETHERIDGE: That individual right there deals with a large facet from the HR side, you know, from answering the phone when people call in about policy to helping with the payroll to make sure that everything is connected on that. A large part of the responsibility that goes with that is to make sure that our payroll is run properly, in regard to making sure that when things are put into the computer system, that they are charged properly and to the proper accounts, and that they are set up in EEOC class codes properly and they are set up in job codes properly. Now, this individual does a lot of other things, but they're not any kind of union rep or anything like that. MR. HANDY: Okay. And the other one is this payroll coordinator. MR. ETHERIDGE: Okay. She does exactly like the title tags that individual. This individual coordinates the function of the payroll. In doing the payroll for -- we're going to be doing it for about 2,500 employees. It's going to take what we've got in there right now to do it. The payroll function has been being done in our Finance Department. We will start doing that function either -- I don't know if we're going to make it July or not, it looks like right now, because there's been some curves, but I know by the first of next year when we go to one system, because we're running two systems right now. That individual will be responsible -- those two individuals -- for making sure that payroll is done. MR. HANDY: Those two. So you're saying that you're combining the old city payroll person that was in the employment office part along with the one that's doing the county now? MR. ETHERIDGE: Yes, sir. MR. HANDY: They will be doing basically the same thing? MR. ETHERIDGE: Basically, but there's a lot more to it than what they were doing it before. MR. HANDY: Well, I'm not going to deal with what they got to do. I don't have a -- I can deal with the duties, I mean, there was -- I was just wondering, but then you explained it that you are taking over payroll now. MR. ETHERIDGE: Yes, sir. MR. HANDY: I mean, versus the Finance Office. MR. ETHERIDGE: Yes, sir. MR. HANDY: And that's normal in Human Resources? MR. ETHERIDGE: Yes, sir. MR. HANDY: Why Finance had it in the beginning then? MR. ETHERIDGE: I have no idea; I wasn't here. That's pre-John. MR. BRIDGES: Let me understand that, now. You're issuing the payroll checks now? MR. ETHERIDGE: No, we -- the payroll checks are issued out of Accounting. We will be doing the payroll function and the checks will still be done just like they've always been done. MR. BRIDGES: In other words, you're doing the initial input of the person's federal/state tax rate --deduction rate, that type of thing? MR. ETHERIDGE: That's correct. MAYOR SCONYERS: Do we hear a motion that we accept this chart? MR. KUHLKE: I move. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Kuhlke, do I hear a second to Mr. Kuhlke's motion? MR. H. BRIGHAM: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: Seconded by Mr. Henry Brigham. Further discussion, gentlemen? MR. TODD: Yes. Mr. Mayor, I certainly think that if we're approving the organization chart, in the sense that we have three super directors, we probably need to call this something other than a director. So I'm suggesting we amend it and call it Human Resources Department Head. Do everybody see what I'm saying up at the top of this chart? And if we go to the, I guess the master plan that we're going to deal with later, we have Human Relations under the Director of Administrative Services, and do we intend to have different levels of directors or are we going to call it managers or department heads or what, and that's the question. I guess we appointed a Utilities Director, but -- MR. ETHERIDGE: Yes, sir. Let me say this, since y'all are going to discuss that tonight, we can change this. I mean, we can change that because the job hasn't even been advertised. MR. TODD: Okay, no problem. I'm ready, Mr. Mayor, to vote. MR. MAYS: Mr. Mayor, I'm going to vote for the motion on the floor, I just wanted to ask John one thing in there. Commissioner Handy was talking about -- asking a question on payroll a few minutes ago. Separating total faces, just positions, we got payroll coordinator down there at the bottom. Now, something that has come up -- I know you were talking about pre-John, I'm going to talk about something after John now. From time to time, whether it's been in Finance or whether it's been in Human Resources under old county government where you were looking at less than 2,000 people, whether or not you needed it within your realm -- and, I mean, you probably figured it out from some position already, and I'm just asking a question in there, whether or not there is a cross-training mechanism or a backup responsibility. Because one of the questions that came up in there from time to time was that whether this was a function for one person or whether it was a function for two people. Now, we're looking now at 2,600 people that you got in the mix, and if I'm looking correctly under here it says one. Now, is there a situation within that organization -- because one of the worst things in the world that Mayor Sconyers can have, and all the calls will go to him, is the fact that 2,600 folks don't get their check right. Now, if you got one person that's doing this now that it's been combined, you have your built-in backup system, I'm presuming, to deal with that question. MR. ETHERIDGE: Have three. MR. MAYS: Okay. Because you know where we would get it from before, and I'm just asking to make sure that in the new realm, since we're adding on within the merger here of everybody, you know, that we've got that covered to a point that -- that's one question that's like the banker that can't take a holiday. You know, that one there, they leave on a certain day, then somebody has to deal with that particular function and in doing it. MR. ETHERIDGE: Yes, sir. Actually we have four, and I left out one of them, but we have four people that will be available to do payroll if we need them. MR. MAYS: Okay. But that's just in the head of noting it of who is in charge and where that is. I just wanted to make sure of that. MAYOR SCONYERS: Further discussion, gentlemen? MR. TODD: Yes, Mr. Mayor. In the sense that we're talking finances, also I guess we've had some minor problems with the reporting to the IRS in a timely manner. That's taken care of? MR. ETHERIDGE: I don't know that I understand your question, Mr. Todd. MR. TODD: I guess as far as sending in the monies that's due them, you know, and avoiding penalties or whatever. MR. ETHERIDGE: Yes, sir. We plan on making sure that we make all the, you know, proper dates and send in --you know, whatever requirements we're required to do, we'll do that. MR. TODD: That's going to be in somebody's job description? MR. ETHERIDGE: Yes, sir, it is. It is definitely in there. MR. HANDY: One final question, Mr. Mayor. John, since you rearranged your whole department, is all those job descriptions going to be changed for those manager positions you got down there? MR. ETHERIDGE: They've already been changed, Mr. Handy. MR. HANDY: Okay, they already been changed. MR. ETHERIDGE: Yes, sir. We did our job descriptions first thing. And that's -- quite honestly, that's what you should do in putting a department together, you do your job descriptions first. MAYOR SCONYERS: Further questions, gentlemen? MR. HANDY: I'm going to take you at your word, but we sure fell behind on a lot of other job descriptions if you're supposed to do it first before we're trying to put people in them. Think about that. MR. ETHERIDGE: I don't disagree with you. MR. HANDY: All right then. Okay. MAYOR SCONYERS: All in favor of Mr. Kuhlke's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 10-0. MAYOR SCONYERS: Next item, please. MR. CARSTARPHEN: The second item under Human Resources is to approve the position description which follows the organization chart that you've just approved. MAYOR SCONYERS: What's your pleasure, gentlemen? MR. TODD: Mr. Chairman, I so move that we approve it. MR. ZETTERBERG: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Todd, seconded by Mr. Zetterberg. Further discussion, gentlemen? All in favor of Mr. Todd's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 10-0. MAYOR SCONYERS: Next item, please. MR. CARSTARPHEN: The final action under Human Resources is to authorize the recruitment. And, again, the recruitment committee having met is recommending that recruitment be from within the organization. MR. TODD: Mr. Chairman, I so move. MR. BEARD: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Todd, seconded by Mr. Beard. Further discussion, gentlemen? All in favor of Mr. Todd's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MR. POWELL VOTES NO. MOTION CARRIES 9-1. MR. CARSTARPHEN: The third category of recommendations deals with the License and Inspections Department for which you have already acted to approve the organizational structure and position description. We are recommending that you authorize recruitment for the department head position of License and Inspections, and the committee having met on this matter as well is recommending to you that recruitment be from within the organization. MR. KUHLKE: So move. MR. BEARD: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Kuhlke, seconded by Mr. Beard. Further discussion, gentlemen? All in favor of Mr. Kuhlke's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MR. POWELL VOTES NO. MOTION CARRIES 9-1. MAYOR SCONYERS: Next item, please. MR. CARSTARPHEN: The final item under consolidation project is the proposed organizational structure for the new government. And as I think each member of the Commission-Council is very much aware of, you have invested a great deal of time over the last several weeks in reviewing various options, making adjustments, making modifications and improvements, that activity continuing through yesterday evening as late as 9:00/9:30 p.m., as I recall. What I want to do with you today is to present to you two organizational structure proposals that include the modifications that you instructed that we make at our workshop session yesterday evening and that also address the issue of the question of where within the overall structure to locate the responsibility for ensuring equal opportunity in all phases of the government's activities. This received a great deal of discussion and input last evening. When the work session was adjourned, the Commission, in my perception, had not reached a consensus. I know that many of you have continued to discuss this among yourselves and to consider options available. The two proposals which I will share with you reflect some of those options that have been discussed informally. I would add to you that I commend you for the progress you have made in finalizing the Administrator's position description and duties and responsibilities and for the progress that has been made in finalizing an overall organizational structure. I hope that you find within these two options an option that will gain the consensus of the Commission and can be acted on today. I will pass these out. They are labeled Number 1 and Number 2. They both include the reflection of the constitutional and elected officials in the manner that you concluded last night would be most appropriate. They both show the grouping of responsibilities under the three directors as -- in general terms, they are not specific as to departments because, as we reflected last night, those decisions have not yet all been made. And they both also present the offices that report directly to the Administrator in a different fashion so as not to imply that those positions are in authority above the other directors. And I will pass out -- the first chart, which is labeled Number 2, suggests that the position of the Equal Opportunity Office be among those departments that report to the Administrator. The second option I will pass out to you shows a way that the Equal Opportunity Office can report directly to the Mayor and Commission. That represents, I think, a somewhat higher profile for that responsibility and it provides the Equal Opportunity Office with the direct access to the Commission. I will pass out Number 2 first, followed by Number 1. [MR. CARSTARPHEN DISTRIBUTES DOCUMENT NUMBER 2.] MR. CARSTARPHEN: I am now distributing the second, which is labeled Number 1 and which shows the responsibility for equal opportunity directly to the Commission and Mayor. [MR. CARSTARPHEN DISTRIBUTES DOCUMENT NUMBER 1.] MR. CARSTARPHEN: If I can respond to any questions or comments you have, or if this does not reflect the directions that you gave last evening insofar as they were given by the body, please let me know and we'll be happy to make any changes that you think would be appropriate. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I'd like to make a motion that we approve Chart Number 1. MR. H. BRIGHAM: Second. MR. BRIDGES: Mr. Mayor, I'd like to make a substitute motion that we approve Chart Number 1 with this exception, that the Equal Opportunity Employment Office be deleted and that those duties be assigned to the Administrator as per Mr. Carstarphen's recommendation to this Council yesterday and earlier. I feel like what we're doing here is we're creating a department, we're growing government, we're creating an additional box, and -- excuse me, Mr. Handy, but I'm jarring the table right now. We're creating an additional box that -- every one of us in here knows that when you create these new positions all they're going to do is grow. I mean, that's the nature of government is to grow. And I think it's something that -- I mean, we've looked down here over in Personnel. We've got an affirmative action manager. And I don't have any problem with someone being treated equally; I have a problem with that term, affirmative action, as I've expressed to some of the Commissioners. But I want to make the substitute motion that we remove the Equal Opportunity Office, assign those duties to the Administrator for that Administrator to administer or assign to individuals within the organization as he sees fit. MR. POWELL: I'm going to second that motion on the basis of a duplication of services. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I'd like a reading from the County Attorney on what the bill called for, whether it calls for a director or whether it calls for us to assign responsibilities and functions to folks throughout government that's under the Administrator. MR. WALL: Well, the bill calls for you to employ a person who would be the director of the equal opportunity and the minority business -- to serve as equal employment opportunity director and as director. Now, it does not say that that individual could not have other functions, but it's my interpretation of this that the intent of the legislation, as evidenced by the 1992 legislation which had similar language, was that a single person with those specific duties be hired, not that those duties be commingled with some other responsibility that another individual had. MR. TODD: Thank you, Mr. Mayor. MR. BEARD: And, Mr. Mayor, it also -- if you would read the bill, it also states that the Commission-Council would employ this person and not the Administrator, so I don't see how you can ask that he be put under the Administrator, and I feel that it is in the best interest of all for it to remain where it is on Item 1. And the other thing I would just like Mr. Carstarphen to explain to me, this block here, Comptroller/Finance -- MR. CARSTARPHEN: Yes. The suggestion was made in discussions yesterday and last evening that individuals may misinterpret having those three departments: Finance, Information Technology, and Public Service and Information shown above the other directors and by grouping them here, but they are still directly responsible to the Administrator. You will see there's no director above them or separating them from the Administrator, but this is an attempt to clarify that so that misinterpretation does not occur. These are departments, and the department heads of these departments will be similarly situated in the hierarchy to other department heads even though they report directly to the Administrator, not through a director. MR. BEARD: Okay, I understand that, and I call for the question. MR. BRIDGES: I've got something. MAYOR SCONYERS: Mr. Bridges had his hand up. Mr. Bridges? MR. BRIDGES: As far as what the bill says, I'm looking at it here, it says the Commission-Council shall employ a person to serve as these two directorships. We already will be employing an Administrator. I mean, that's what it calls for, that's what we're doing. Those duties will be under the Administrator for them to administrate as they see fit, if they wanted to do it themselves or designate someone else or use the different departments like we have in Personnel or whatever. But another thing I want to say at this time is yesterday I heard some - - as we were discussing this I heard some language on affirmative action, and I've expressed this to two of the minority members of the Commission, to me that's an ugly word because it implies racial selectivity. The bill says that these goals that the bill provides for in Section 14 are to be used as guidelines to the Commission-Council and are not to be construed as ceilings or quotas. So I don't think this position is something that is going to be used to encourage or promote any kind of racial selectivity, I see it as something that is going to provide equal opportunity for all, and that's what it says in the bill. And I was kind of disturbed at some of the language that we used yesterday in that context and I think we need to have that understanding about what the bill provides for. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, you know, one of my former colleagues, Mr. Lee Neel, used to talk about often reverse discrimination, and certainly I feel that if there's someone that feel that they've been reverse discriminated against, that they could go to this person and get relief as far as a grievance go. So I don't see affirmative action as a ugly word, I see discrimination as a ugly word and affirmative action as a mediation of discrimination. And certainly I feel that, you know, we're talking about a minority and small business equal opportunity person, and I think that probably 90% of the small businesses in this country is majority community-owned with, you know, about 10%, you know, minority-owned. I may be off on those numbers, but certainly it's not much more than that. But when we look at whether we have a level playing field or not, I think that it's quite obvious that we don't as far as bid practices, et cetera, and that's why the legislators and some local officials seen fit for this to be put in the bill. You know, if we're talking about growing government, then certainly I see the Public Service and Information Office as being a new entity in county government. We are growing there. And I guess then it's a matter of priorities on what's important to who, and I think we're gentlemen enough that we can compromise and work this out and do what's best for this community versus living in the past or, you know, running from certain terminology. And, you know, that's the way I see it. And I think this position is going to help majority community, minority community, and the area that it's helped as far as the 1992 legislation is minorities, women, minority by race, and small business, and I would hope that it would continue to do that. MR. KUHLKE: Call the question, Mr. Mayor. MAYOR SCONYERS: Mr. Powell had his hand up. Mr. Powell, then Mr. Mays, then we'll call the question. MR. POWELL: Mr. Chairman, my concerns is this: we just put in a organizational structure -- just approved it for Human Relations. In that plan it had an affirmative action officer there. Now we're going to put another affirmative action and EEO personnel in up at the top administration. What is the plan here, are we going to have one in every office? Have we got these people already? Are we going to have to hire them? I mean, that's the question I just want to ask. MAYOR SCONYERS: Bill, can you answer that? MR. CARSTARPHEN: I'll try. The function of the equal employment opportunity/employment manager in Human Resources deals with equal opportunity in the employment of individuals for the government, their work with the government, their grievances, their treatment, their supervision, their growth and development as employees. And as I indicated, I join with Mr. Etheridge in recommending that that function best be performed with the Human Resources Department. As I perceive the commitment that is made in the legislation, it is to equal opportunity in all things that the government does. And while it includes Human Resources in this function that I just described, it also includes a number of other commitments in the employment, in contracts, in economic development, in fairness, in service levels. It applies throughout the organization. I believe the position that you are debating today has that comprehensive responsibility to see that those commitments to equal opportunity are carried out throughout the organization. That can be done, as I have indicated, through assigning that function to the Administrator or assigning it to an individual who reports either to the Administrator or to the governing body, and I think that's what you are discussing today at this moment. MR. POWELL: I still have a question. How many people -- MR. CARSTARPHEN: Currently -- I didn't answer the final part of the question. Currently, it is my belief that you have two people within the organization who currently carry out portions of this overall responsibility. One is located in the Human Resources Department, the position we just discussed, and a second has been located in the Community and Economic Development function and involves essentially working with small and minority businesses to see that they can compete for and successfully gain contracts from the government, and that's two major elements of this overall process. MR. POWELL: One more part to the question and then I'll be through. How many more people are you planning on, as we get down into this thing, Mr. Carstarphen, adding for this? Are we going to have one in every department? MR. CARSTARPHEN: I'm not recommending any people, I am concurring that the overall responsibility needs to be placed either with the Administrator in that office or at the governing body level. You have an option of filling those positions with individuals who are currently in your employ or hiring new people to do so. There's no recommendation from me on that. MR. BEARD: I call for the question, Mr. Mayor. MAYOR SCONYERS: Well, Mr. Mays is not quite finished. Mr. Mays? MR. MAYS: Yes. Mr. Mayor, let me change the air just a little bit because -- I know y'all are thinking my question was going to be about something else, but I got a brief question and just two observances. One, Bill -- and let me apologize for being gone for a week, but I see where your movement is taking place on both of these where you have your direct line to your Administrator that's in there. The question I've got in there is that -- I know you've explained why you did it, but in the group's thinking, was -- even though they will go to the Administrator, I noticed before where you had particularly coming out of that area, particularly involving Finance in there, what was the thinking on that? Because, I mean, obviously even if it's set aside as one of those original major groupings it was going to have to go to the Administrator anyway, and I just would like to know how did you all arrive at that. Because what I'm getting to I guess gets into my point about my two observances. And I'm glad in my old age and bullheadedness, Mr. Mayor, I can still vote for -- I'm going to vote for this thing today and I'm glad we got to this point where I won't have a hangup that I can't compromise as the senior citizen of this body. But now, I still believe two things, and I've got to say it for the record, but I'm going to vote for what you got here. I still think in the observance of looking at municipalities our size, that in a lot of places -- and I know this met with a lot of opposition, and I don't blame you, Bill, for not putting it in here, but I still think that one of the defined duties -- and we talked about the assistant to the Administrator being defined, and I guess you all told me last week that that's going to be left up to the Administrator to do a designated person or that person might move around. Personally speaking, I would prefer that Administrator having an assistant as is done, whether it's in the form of an assistant manager or administrator, in even some comparable Georgia cities that rank in population along with this one, whether it be in Macon-Bibb or whether it be in Savannah. But that's something still I can live with, that ain't debatable. But the other thing up here that I think -- and this is not the time to deal with it, but I like to bring things out when I see them because I forget things. We've got Municipal Court up here as it's defined, and we have across from here our constitutional officers. I think seriously at some point in time we need to look as to whether or not this is going to be -- with the way things are going right now, whether this is going to be a functional court. I mean, it's here as an integral part of this chart, but as we are channeling the cases and the way these things are done -- and some of us asked very early on when we were talking about combining and eliminating, and it was said that there would be a process way that through coding we would know what cases were to go where. This is not being done. And if this is going to be a function as to where it's there, then I think we need to decide whether or not we're going to have Municipal Court and you're going to either put an assistant under the State Court judge or whether or not you're going to have a defined way of sending these cases here, if this is going to be a source of revenue in Municipal Court, to define it and whether or not whoever the judge is there gets cases on a defined basis. Because, I mean, this is clear up in our organizational chart and it certainly shouldn't become a ghost town. And I think it's -- this isn't the time to do it now, but I just wanted to bring it to your attention because it's on the chart and it ranks high, and I think we need to at some point take some time and maybe work some things with all the parties that are involved in this thing. Because it can be one of those things like the work crew. Whether we want to discuss it or not, it ain't functioning and it's dying, and that involves money. And if it's going to be attributed to government as a defined position, high ranking and standing out here alone up under the Mayor and the Commissioners, then we need to see whether or not cases are going to be channeled to that darned court or whether or not we're going to close up shop and we're going to operate another way. I just wanted to bring that out while y'all are dealing with it, and I can vote for the chart that's out there. MR. CARSTARPHEN: Mr. Mays, that received extensive discussion last night. Many of your fellow Commissioners shared some of your same concerns. There were some alternatives explored, I think there will be further exploration of how to deal with that, but the decision to represent the Municipal Court in this fashion was made following the workshop last night. I'll observe in good humor and hope that you take it in good humor, by personal observance, I have experienced the fact that when you're on vacation for a week sometimes you get left behind and sometimes you get off the track. MR. BEARD: I call for the question. MR. BRIDGES: Mr. Mayor, I don't dispute -- I call for the question with a roll call vote. MAYOR SCONYERS: Okay. Do y'all need the motion read, gentlemen? MR. HANDY: No. No, we don't -- there ain't but one. MAYOR SCONYERS: No, there are two motions on the floor. MR. HANDY: It is? MR. POWELL: Yeah, I'd like them reread. MR. HANDY: Oh, yeah, we need to read them. MAYOR SCONYERS: Do you want to read the motions, Susan, please? MS. WATSON: The substitute motion by Mr. Bridges, seconded by Mr. Powell, was to approve Chart Number 1 with the equal opportunity position to be deleted and the duties to be assigned to the Administrator. The original motion made by Mr. Todd, seconded by Mr. Zetterberg, for Chart Number 1 as is. MAYOR SCONYERS: Okay, we're going to have a roll call vote. Ms. Bonner, the substitute motion first. CLERK: Mr. Todd? MR. TODD: Present. CLERK: I beg your pardon? MR. TODD: Present. CLERK: Mr. Jerry Brigham? MR. J. BRIGHAM: No. CLERK: Mr. Willie Mays? MR. MAYS: No. CLERK: Mr. Bill Kuhlke? MR. KUHLKE: No. CLERK: Mr. Henry Brigham? MR. H. BRIGHAM: No. CLERK: Mr. Rob Zetterberg? MR. ZETTERBERG: No. CLERK: Mr. Lee Beard? MR. BEARD: No. CLERK: Mr. J.B. Powell? MR. POWELL: Yes. CLERK: Mr. Freddie Handy? MR. HANDY: No. CLERK: Ulmer Bridges? MR. BRIDGES: Yes. MOTION FAILS 7-2-1. MAYOR SCONYERS: Go back to the original motion now. Roll call vote. CLERK: Mr. Todd? MR. TODD: Yes. CLERK: Mr. Jerry Brigham? MR. J. BRIGHAM: Yes. CLERK: Mr. Willie Mays? MR. MAYS: Believe it or not, yes. CLERK: Mr. Bill Kuhlke? MR. KUHLKE: Yes. CLERK: Mr. Henry Brigham? MR. H. BRIGHAM: Yes. CLERK: Mr. Rob Zetterberg? MR. ZETTERBERG: Yes. CLERK: Mr. Lee Beard? MR. BEARD: Yes. CLERK: Mr. J.B. Powell? MR. POWELL: No. CLERK: Mr. Freddie Handy? MR. HANDY: Yes. CLERK: Mr. Ulmer Bridges? MR. BRIDGES: Absolutely not. MOTION CARRIES 8-2. MR. CARSTARPHEN: I commend you for your action. I think this will enable us to move ahead more swiftly. And I would report to you also that the advertisement for the Administrator position appeared in two national publications this week. MR. HANDY: Could we have the names, Bill, so we can see it, too? I just would like to have it for a souvenir. MR. CARSTARPHEN: The two publications are the National League of Cities' Nation Cities Weekly and the International City-County Management Association Newsletters. I have copies of both of them. I'll make copies and send to each of you. CLERK: The next item, Item 53: Appointments to the Augusta-Richmond County Board of Health. MR. J. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, these nominees are coming from these organizations by state statute. These organizations submitted three nominations to each one to us for nomination to the Board of Health. Dr. Rumph asked me to make it known that his selection, if it weighs anything with this organization, is Dr. Hillsman, and at his request I will place Dr. Hillsman's name in nomination. MR. HANDY: Mr. Mayor, nominations be closed. MR. H. BRIGHAM: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: Okay, all in favor of Dr. Hillsman -- excuse me, all in favor of -- MR. J. BRIGHAM: Hilson. Excuse me. MAYOR SCONYERS: Yeah, that's right. All in favor of Hilson, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MR. BRIDGES VOTES NO; MR. BEARD OUT. MOTION CARRIES 8-1. MR. J. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, from the other organization he did not make a recommendation, but I'd like to place the name of Ms. Gail Brantley in nomination. MAYOR SCONYERS: That's Bentley, isn't it? MR. POWELL: Move that nominations be closed. MAYOR SCONYERS: All in favor of Ms. Bentley, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MR. HANDY: Wait a minute, now. Regular see-saw here. Let's get a roll call vote. MAYOR SCONYERS: We only got one person. MR. MAYS: It was moving real quick. I was just going to ask the casual observer -- sir, you were saying an organization. Did any nursing association make it or are those just nurses? MR. J. BRIGHAM: This was supposedly from the Georgia Association -- 10th District Association of Nurses. MR. MAYS: Okay, and they gave us the name? MR. J. BRIGHAM: They made the nominations. MR. MAYS: Okay, that was all I was trying to find out. I didn't know whether -- I saw nurses in there. MR. J. BRIGHAM: That is not what it says in the book, but that is supposedly who nominated Bentley. MAYOR SCONYERS: All in favor of Ms. Bentley, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MR. BRIDGES VOTES NO; MR. BEARD OUT. MOTION CARRIES 8-1. MAYOR SCONYERS: Jim, do we need any legal business? MR. WALL: Yes, sir, you do. CLERK: We have one other item. You have discussion of the Damascus Road/Village Square property. MR. HANDY: That's in under legal or other business? That's legal; right? CLERK: I don't know. Is this going to be legal, Jim? MR. BRIDGES: Mr. Mayor, I've got a matter under other business, too. MAYOR SCONYERS: Okay. What do you want to do about Damascus Road? Since that is real estate, do y'all want to do that in the legal session? MR. WALL: I think that there's some legal ramifications. I would -- yes, I would. CLERK: Okay. We'll go into other business then. MR. BRIDGES: So we're in other business now? MAYOR SCONYERS: Yes. MR. BRIDGES: Mr. Mayor, what I'm bringing up here has to do -- when we did those water rate we went back five times with them, and now we're having to go back again due to the surcharge and the high sewerage expense that's associated with it and we're having to review those. With that in mind and the fact that we just approved a salary equalization for the Sheriff's Department and the Fire Department, I'd like to ask the Commission-Council to ask Mr. Kip Plowman, our Internal Auditor, to review the equalization procedure, to review the -- you know, I guess, of course, the math and the accounting of it as well, and make sure that what we've done and what's going to take effect July the 1st is in line with what we're going to do throughout the county as far as hiring, as far as practices, as far as policies, and as far as procedures. And I think it's important that we get this right the first time, that we're not having something coming back to bite us later. We've already voted on it, it's taking effect July the 1st, so I think time is probably of the essence here. But I'd like for our Internal Auditor to review that and come back to us and see what kind of recommendations or what kind of comments he has to make on those policies and procedures dealing with equalization and salary throughout the structure. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, I'd like to second the motion to get it on the floor for discussion. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Bridges, seconded by Mr. Todd. Further discussion, gentlemen? MR. TODD: Yes. Mr. Mayor, I guess what the format -- I mean, the master that they use is called a grid; is that correct? And there is some concern about whether we have some special treatment as far as that grid go, and I'll just get it out front, you know, as far as what I'm hearing. And certainly we want everybody to be treated equally, but we want it to be per the procedure that we passed a couple of weeks ago that we're going to implement July the 1st. And I certainly would accept nothing less than that being what we actually implement July 1st, and if there is any misperceptions -- I don't know whether everybody had the opportunity to review the grid, I'm not expert along those lines, but certainly I think that we want all misperceptions cleared up because this is dealing with the morale of our employees, both the former urban and suburban employees of Fire Department and Sheriff's Department. And we want it implemented right and make sure that it's done right. MR. POWELL: Call for the question, Mr. Chairman. MAYOR SCONYERS: Okay. All in favor of Mr. Bridges' motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MR. MAYS ABSTAINS. MOTION CARRIES 9-1. MR. MAYS: I'm going to vote present, Mr. Mayor. I was going to ask a question, but we're voting on it. I really don't understand, because I think Mr. Bridges made a motion for one purpose and if I'm hearing Moses correctly, he seconded it for another one. MR. BRIDGES: I don't think so. I think we're in line. MR. MAYS: I think he did. I mean, I may be wrong, but I mean, you're talking about the review to see whether or not -- and I'm not putting words in your mouth. If I'm hearing correctly, you're asking Kip to examine something to see what we've done in there properly and comparing that with the water rate situation. And I was one of those two people that didn't vote for the water rate, so I'll exempt myself from that amnesia-type question. But Mr. Todd, on the other hand, basically is talking about dealing with the grids in there and whether or not we have some inequities in there. I think that may be a different type of message than what your motion is sending out. I am very comfortable with us dealing with the equalization. I think that what we need to be doing is asking Human Resources to do maybe what we didn't do as an old Commission when the old salary structure was put into place from University of Georgia and there were falling-through-the-crack situations. Maybe we didn't go back and evaluate the fall-through-the-crack people soon enough. I think that we have moved on this thing for a long time. I think it sends a bad message and look as though you are reversing it. I think, yes, to make -- I think you have to study everything as you go along, but I think if there are inequities in what we've done, then we pull those inequities out, give Human Resources the right to deal with those first, and not go through a whole review of the process. If we want to be reviewing something, I think we need to take back what we did on the mad rush of going in and reducing what would look like water and went up in double sewerage. Which I don't want to use I told you so, but you see what it's doing throughout this county. And it's hurting my area that I represented longer than anywhere else, and I tried to say that, percentage wise, worse than anybody else. So if you're going to review something, maybe you ought to go back with the pressure we put on water people to have to come up with a timetable because it was in the bill more so than going back and trying to finagle with these folks' money. So, I mean, I'm going to vote here on the motion. It's already out there and passed, and my vote will be recorded as here, but I'm not going back and deal with that. MR. BRIDGES: Mr. Mayor, what was the vote on that? MAYOR SCONYERS: 9 to 1, with one abstention, Mr. Mays' abstention. MR. HANDY: Mr. Mayor, I'd like to offer in the form of a motion to go into legal session if that one passed. MAYOR SCONYERS: Okay, under other business -- let me -- MR. HANDY: Oh, we've got another item? MAYOR SCONYERS: Yeah, one more thing. I think we need to go ahead and decide whether or not we're going to cancel the meeting for the 2nd and reschedule it for the 9th since most of us aren't going to be here. MR. HANDY: I think we should, because we'll be gone -- majority of us will be gone. MAYOR SCONYERS: Well, can I have a motion from somebody to do that? MR. POWELL: So move. MR. ZETTERBERG: Second. MR. TODD: Mr. Mayor, isn't there also a group that's going to be leaving sometime in the second week of July for the NACO, and is that -- how is those dates? CLERK: 12th of July. MR. TODD: 12th. So the 9th would fit in just before. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. MAYOR SCONYERS: Thank you, Mr. Todd. So what we need is a motion to reschedule the 2nd meeting -- the meeting on the 2nd to be on the 9th. MR. HANDY: So what you're going to do is just push everything -- the committee meetings, everything, just push up a week? MAYOR SCONYERS: Well, no, the committee meetings will still be next week, but the regular Commission meeting will be on the 9th. MR. HANDY: Okay. All right. MR. MEYER: We have already advertised and posted alcohol license hearings for the committee meeting for the 9th, so we would still have to do that even if you had your Commission meeting on the 9th. We would still have to have that committee meeting on the 9th. MAYOR SCONYERS: What time does that committee meet? MR. MEYER: Four o'clock. MR. WALL: Mr. Mayor, I wanted to point out I've got a deposition that I do not have control over. I'm going to be out of town on the 9th. Because of these rules and my familiarity with them, and the instruction was to bring those back at the next regular meeting, if those are going to be brought up on the 9th, Lori would be here. And I know a lot of you would rather she be here on a full-time basis rather than me, and I defer to that, but I point that out as a potential problem and maybe we can work around it. MAYOR SCONYERS: Well, maybe we could do the rules -- CLERK: [Inaudible] MAYOR SCONYERS: Well, if they're going to be here on the 3rd, I don't have a problem with the 3rd. MR. HANDY: We'll be back the 3rd; right? CLERK: Yes. MAYOR SCONYERS: Do y'all want to do it on the 3rd? I don't have a problem with July the 3rd. Give me a motion for July the 3rd. It'll be Wednesday, July the 3rd. MR. H. BRIGHAM: So move. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Brigham, somebody give me a second on that. MR. HANDY: I got it. Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: Seconded by Mr. Handy. Any discussion? MR. TODD: Yes, Mr. Mayor. I guess my question would be to the County Attorney. The statutory responsibility to have the meeting on the first Tuesday, we can, by resolution, change that to any other day; is that my understanding? MR. WALL: Yes, sir. I think under the circumstances where you're not going to have a quorum here, that that's the responsible thing to do. MAYOR SCONYERS: We've done it in the past, haven't we, Jim? MR. WALL: Yes, sir, we have. MAYOR SCONYERS: Further discussion? All in favor of Mr. Brigham's motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 9-0. [MR. BRIDGES OUT] MR. J. BRIGHAM: Mr. Mayor, are we going to discuss Damascus Road and do the 911 equipment before we go into executive session? MAYOR SCONYERS: 911 has already been done. CLERK: We've already approved 911. MR. J. BRIGHAM: On the addendum? MAYOR SCONYERS: Yes, sir. We took it out of order. MR. WALL: On the Damascus Road, I would ask that we go into legal session because there's some aspects of that that I would like to give you legal advice on. I'd also ask you to go into -- I've got a personnel matter - - or two personnel matters I need to discuss with you. MAYOR SCONYERS: Do I hear a motion, gentlemen? MR. HANDY: So move. MR. H. BRIGHAM: Second. MAYOR SCONYERS: I have a motion by Mr. Handy, seconded by Mr. Henry Brigham. Discussion? All in favor of the motion, let it be known by raising your hand, please. MOTION CARRIES 10-0. MEMBERS RETIRE INTO LEGAL MEETING, 5:47 P.M. Lena J. Bonner Clerk of Commission-Council CERTIFICATION: I, Lena J. Bonner, Clerk of Commission-Council, hereby certify that the above is a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular Meeting of Augusta- Richmond County Commission-Council held on June 18, 1996. ______________________________ Clerk of Commission-Council